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Jadey
14-08-11, 21:52
HDB income ceiling raise to 10K
EC income ceiling raise to 12K

How will this impact the Mass Market condo?

KC76
14-08-11, 22:03
HDB income ceiling raise to 10K
EC income ceiling raise to 12K

How will this impact the Mass Market condo?

CCR and OCR prices should continue to move up while OCR prices should remain or weaken in my opinion.

Lovelle
14-08-11, 22:07
this will drive demand to hdb side even more.
HDB price will continue to go up then. IF hdb price goes up, mass market can at least maintain...

popoty
14-08-11, 22:11
this will drive demand to hdb side even more.
HDB price will continue to go up then. IF hdb price goes up, mass market can at least maintain...

mass market may continue to inch up, especially those better locations

solsys
14-08-11, 22:11
HDB income ceiling raise to 10K
EC income ceiling raise to 12K

How will this impact the Mass Market condo?

New private prop must be priced at a higher gap than ECs.

Government enticing buyers to go in EC segment to soak up demand.

This addresses citizens' demand on income ceiling and also prompt developers to pause mass mkt launches in mean time.

In short, those who bought new private props in last six mths at close to EC prices will benefit as new private mass mkt props should command a higher gap/premium.

However, we might be seeing the last of new mass mkt launches with this measure as buyers seep into ECs.

Whoever wants to buy new private prop will need to buy from existing launches who will steadily raise prices. Their way of attracting buyers will be through furniture discount vouchers or rebates to create price differentiation from EC segment yet maintaining the premium over ECs.

jwong71
14-08-11, 22:12
this will drive demand to hdb side even more.
HDB price will continue to go up then. IF hdb price goes up, mass market can at least maintain...

will drive up demand ballot for new hdb, and reduce the demand in the resale hdb.

if like that, resale hdb sellers can't ask for sky high cov, unable to upgrade to condos. condos will weaken??

solsys
14-08-11, 22:30
will drive up demand ballot for new hdb, and reduce the demand in the resale hdb.

if like that, resale hdb sellers can't ask for sky high cov, unable to upgrade to condos. condos will weaken??

There is still shortage in resale mkt so COV will only slowly slowly come down as more new ballot flats come out.

The income ceiling is controversial but it will definitely give demand for EC segment.

The perception of solving or addressing the issue from government is there.

Whether it works or not is another thing.

DaytonaSS
14-08-11, 22:35
will drive up demand ballot for new hdb, and reduce the demand in the resale hdb.

if like that, resale hdb sellers can't ask for sky high cov, unable to upgrade to condos. condos will weaken??

bro, COV is max max 50-80k ba. Will affect upgrading to condo for 50k difference?

linchong84
14-08-11, 22:38
i agree with jwong71.. lets say there are 10 people in singapore.. When the ceiling was 8k BTo and 10k EC, maybe say 7 people qualify and buy them.. Now ceiling raised, BTO and EC cannibalised the demand from pte properties.. So, demand by right should drop, esp OCR..

BTOs prices are controlled by HDB.. although demand will increase but HDB can still maintain the price for another 2-3 years (in fact some said the recent launch prices drop), while continuing to increase supply.. resale HDB will drop a bit, and the domino will go on..

jwong71
14-08-11, 22:42
bro, COV is max max 50-80k ba. Will affect upgrading to condo for 50k difference?

bro probably you yet to come to know some cov 100-120k transacted hdb.

again,you can argue what is an 100-120k of difference, to you is not an issue.
to some average upgradders it sure make a hell lot of difference, even an 50k

jwong71
14-08-11, 22:48
i agree with jwong71.. lets say there are 10 people in singapore.. When the ceiling was 8k BTo and 10k EC, maybe say 7 people qualify and buy them.. Now ceiling raised, BTO and EC cannibalised the demand from pte properties.. So, demand by right should drop, esp OCR..

BTOs prices are controlled by HDB.. although demand will increase but HDB can still maintain the price for another 2-3 years (in fact some said the recent launch prices drop), while continuing to increase supply.. resale HDB will drop a bit, and the domino will go on..

hdb current launch is cheaper by 40-50k, comparing to the previous launches.

richwang
14-08-11, 22:48
50K difference when used as 20% down payment will translate to 250K in total price. That is something for massive market condo!

Thanks,
Richard

Lovelle
14-08-11, 23:10
will drive up demand ballot for new hdb, and reduce the demand in the resale hdb.

if like that, resale hdb sellers can't ask for sky high cov, unable to upgrade to condos. condos will weaken??

do u think new hdb will be priced lower ?

kingkong1984
14-08-11, 23:16
The income ceiling raised will only mean those priced out before can now enter.

U have demand shifting from private back to EC and DBSS.

Then if u have more DBSS and condo supply, the real impact would be at private.

For those private that is subjected to SSD... Cannot do much till SSD is out.

For those not subjected to SSD, they will realize that up graders or buyers will be less and less. Overall, DBSS and EC will save the day.

Those who bought near EC prices need not be too happy as prices is going to be flat or downward from now on. Faster is external shock hit or recession hits.

U need to watch the prices of new BTO, DBSS and EC to make your decision.

Rental wise, good luck to u as Upgraders will compete with u with their HDB or dual key ECs.

At this hdb supply rate, I wish OCR owners good luck.

jwong71
14-08-11, 23:28
do u think new hdb will be priced lower ?

i do not have to think that new hdb will be priced lower,
BUT current launch(after GE) already priced lower than previous new launches that were released.(before GE)

jwong71
14-08-11, 23:33
Those who bought near EC prices need not be too happy as prices is going to be flat or downward from now on. Faster is external shock hit or recession hits.

wrong!! those who buy near EC prices, are locked to SSD and prone to external shock, due soon in these few years. in a matter of time:D

gav108
14-08-11, 23:34
wouldn't the developers cannibalize on the increase in income ceiling to 12k by increasing EC prices? if that happens n prices become close to mass market condos, wouldn't that again push up condo prices? assuming that S'pore survives relatively well in the economic roller coaster..

kingkong1984
14-08-11, 23:42
wrong!! those who buy near EC prices, are locked to SSD and prone to external shock, due soon in these few years. in a matter of time:D
Hey, we are talking the same the lah...

What is seen as a bargain buy earlier is based on past yardsticks, under néw yardstick, they are shorter... Hahahah...

kingkong1984
14-08-11, 23:46
wouldn't the developers cannibalize on the increase in income ceiling to 12k by increasing EC prices? if that happens n prices become close to mass market condos, wouldn't that again push up condo prices? assuming that S'pore survives relatively well in the economic roller coaster..

Possible but developers would keep quantum the same to target bigger pool of buyers.

U raise EC prices, people go for DBSS or resale private. Developer cannot clear new stocks. Then eventually, have to cut price lor.

It's red apples and green apples.

EC are green apples, private condo are red apples, which one do u like to eat?

gav108
14-08-11, 23:57
Possible but developers would keep quantum the same to target bigger pool of buyers.

U raise EC prices, people go for DBSS or resale private. Developer cannot clear new stocks. Then eventually, have to cut price lor.

It's red apples and green apples.

EC are green apples, private condo are red apples, which one do u like to eat?


meaning that the prices will stabilize, but actual psf will increase? i guess that's possible. since big developers need to balance and take into account the sales of all their developments, whether private or EC or DBSS. if they price EC too high, its sales may suffer. if they price their EC too low, their private developments may suffer.

also, given that they have already bidded so high for recent GLS, don't think they will want to lower psf in order to maintain some profit margin.

kingkong1984
15-08-11, 00:17
Only way forward, cut size and max free areas....balconies and air con ledge. Planter no more....

U have more mm and

1 bedder 400 sqf
2 bedder 750 sqf
3 bedder 1000 sqf
4 bedder 1250 sqf
Penthouses 1500 sqf only.

fclim
15-08-11, 00:43
New OCR prices may not drop much. Probably will come will more luxurious fittings and glitzy advertising to maintain price gap over EC. Resale OCR condos will suffer the most.

ysyap
15-08-11, 06:37
EC demand will probably not increase that much for two reasons.

1. Those previously who don't qualify for BTO, ie. income from 8k to 10k, will now move to buy BTO and another group of buyers, ie income from 10k to 12k will buy EC. So the number balances. Furthermore, number of people who earns more decreases up the income bracket so there are probably less people in the 10k to 12k bracket than those between 8k and 10k.

2. Developers will slowly and surely move prices of EC up to gain higher profits so the 8k to 10k buyers might be squeezed out in the EC market.

Therefore, BTO will have higher take up rate while OCR mass market might suffer the most. :scared-3:

solsys
15-08-11, 09:03
New OCR prices may not drop much. Probably will come will more luxurious fittings and glitzy advertising to maintain price gap over EC. Resale OCR condos will suffer the most.

This I agree. Purpose is to cool HDB resale and address income ceiling demand. Sales might be slow for new mass mkt but price gap with EC will have to maintain one way or another through innovative promo.

Resale's salavation is more on it's size in sqft coz MM really small these days.

People who make do with 1-bed now looking at 2-bed while former buyers of 2-bed look at 3-bed compact.

propbull1628
15-08-11, 10:08
EC demand will probably not increase that much for two reasons.

1. Those previously who don't qualify for BTO, ie. income from 8k to 10k, will now move to buy BTO and another group of buyers, ie income from 10k to 12k will buy EC. So the number balances. Furthermore, number of people who earns more decreases up the income bracket so there are probably less people in the 10k to 12k bracket than those between 8k and 10k.

2. Developers will slowly and surely move prices of EC up to gain higher profits so the 8k to 10k buyers might be squeezed out in the EC market.

Therefore, BTO will have higher take up rate while OCR mass market might suffer the most. :scared-3:

Don't think 1. is likely. The pool of EC buyers are in general not keen on HDB lifestyle. You will be surprised how young people think these days. They are earning more and not afraid to live the "condo" lifestyle that EC give them even if they have to take a big loan.

So the flow towards BTO from the 8-10k bracket won't be significant but the flow into EC from the 10-12k will be more significant because of SSD and lower EC pricing. But they also need to satisfying the 1st & 2nd time buyer criteria.

Agree that developers will most likely up EC prices and that will cause private condo prices to firm too since more powerful FTs coming.... not forgetting more Mdm Lai types becoming citizens :doh::doh:

DC33_2008
15-08-11, 10:23
Not sure how much impact by the new FTs on the buy/sell market. New FTs will not buy immediately. They will usually rent first given the housing allowance. It may applies to those who have stay here for a couple years and decided to stay on and not given housing allowance. This will be in the low-mid level management FTs.
Don't think 1. is likely. The pool of EC buyers are in general not keen on HDB lifestyle. You will be surprised how young people think these days. They are earning more and not afraid to live the "condo" lifestyle that EC give them even if they have to take a big loan.

So the flow towards BTO from the 8-10k bracket won't be significant but the flow into EC from the 10-12k will be more significant because of SSD and lower EC pricing. But they also need to satisfying the 1st & 2nd time buyer criteria.

Agree that developers will most likely up EC prices and that will cause private condo prices to firm too since more powerful FTs coming.... not forgetting more Mdm Lai types becoming citizens :doh::doh:

ysyap
15-08-11, 11:12
Don't think 1. is likely. The pool of EC buyers are in general not keen on HDB lifestyle. You will be surprised how young people think these days. They are earning more and not afraid to live the "condo" lifestyle that EC give them even if they have to take a big loan.

So the flow towards BTO from the 8-10k bracket won't be significant but the flow into EC from the 10-12k will be more significant because of SSD and lower EC pricing. But they also need to satisfying the 1st & 2nd time buyer criteria.

Agree that developers will most likely up EC prices and that will cause private condo prices to firm too since more powerful FTs coming.... not forgetting more Mdm Lai types becoming citizens :doh::doh:Yeah... but the rising EC prices will simply force these young couples whose income is between 8k to 10k to reconsider their options. Doubtless to say some will still insist on living that condo lifestyle and so bleed themselves dry but some will opt out too, especially those with dependents such as young kids and aged parents. However, all things being equal, i.e. if the prices of EC remain the same as today, then these same group of couples will most like opt for condo lifestyle. :spliff: Not many mdm lai around lah! :p

avo7007
15-08-11, 11:14
I think the Government's single mindedness in moderating the HDB mkt will actually work albeit not immediately. I guess the bigger question is the knock on effects on the private mkt. With a slowing economy but flush with liquidity.....who knows?:confused:

Montaigne
15-08-11, 16:25
If your combine income fall into the range btw 10k to 12k, would u rather buy EC or private assuming that you can afford both? Which is a better bet? EC obviously. So those earning between 10k to 12k will not want to buy private. Think those 10-12k earners who can't qualify for EC previously and bought PC due to income ceiling will :banghead:

ysyap
15-08-11, 16:46
If your combine income fall into the range btw 10k to 12k, would u rather buy EC or private assuming that you can afford both? Which is a better bet? EC obviously. So those earning between 10k to 12k will not want to buy private. Think those 10-12k earners who can't qualify for EC previously and bought PC due to income ceiling will :banghead:True true! Then again there are those who are turned off by the MOP. Especially investors! EC cannot rent out but PC can! :D

mygeemeel
15-08-11, 17:26
I will still try my best to find a mass mkt condo to buy. Mainly bcos EC generally don't have good location.

I would do more homework and squeeze the mass mkt owners to part their unit at a lower price. Use whatever means you can think of (except spray painting or throw eggs). Some owners just want to take some decent profit and exit, especially if mkt now is unpredictable.

Before i sold my mass mkt condo, i used neighbouring development and EC prices to benchmark. I got decent profit and then exited.

Geylang OKT
15-08-11, 17:28
The way folks use mass market terminology make it seem like they are all 99LH.... but some are FH too :D

iwantgizmos
15-08-11, 17:34
also EC don't have SOHO.

Montaigne
15-08-11, 18:02
So if that is the case, income earner between 10k to 12k should either buy FH PC, or EC. Then maybe LH99 mass mkt will be hit more than FH mass mkt??? FH should be safe? So is it wiser to go for EC or FH mass mkt if that might be the ONLY property we can afford in this life? (ok.. I sound pathetic:( )

linchong84
15-08-11, 18:23
There are 2 types of OCR.. One in fringe, the other is non-fringe.. Very obviously EC lies in the fringe and fringe OCR properties (PC and EC) are bought mostly by upgraders.. This is where EC will cannibalise demand from the fringe OCR pte condos (esp if they are located next to each other)..

So, what will happen if EC prices maintain? Fringe OCR prices will have to fall too.. And the domino will hurt the rest (OCR non fringe, RCR) because OCR fringe act as the support..

Govt now 'lowering' prices of BTOs, launching heavy supply, increase building speed and increase ceiling, so it is common sense the logical effect of these will be resale HDB MOP dropping.. That will start another domino too..

Of course some people can say EC developers might just decide to launch very high price.. Maybe yes maybe no.. They launch too high, nobody will bite.. it is EC afterall.. The most recent EC bid is one in punggol walkable to MRT at 270psf.. Such a low psf, how high a price will the developer launch at?

kingkong1984
15-08-11, 19:02
There are 2 types of OCR.. One in fringe, the other is non-fringe.. Very obviously EC lies in the fringe and fringe OCR properties (PC and EC) are bought mostly by upgraders.. This is where EC will cannibalise demand from the fringe OCR pte condos (esp if they are located next to each other)..

So, what will happen if EC prices maintain? Fringe OCR prices will have to fall too.. And the domino will hurt the rest (OCR non fringe, RCR) because OCR fringe act as the support..

Govt now 'lowering' prices of BTOs, launching heavy supply, increase building speed and increase ceiling, so it is common sense the logical effect of these will be resale HDB MOP dropping.. That will start another domino too..

Of course some people can say EC developers might just decide to launch very high price.. Maybe yes maybe no.. They launch too high, nobody will bite.. it is EC afterall.. The most recent EC bid is one in punggol walkable to MRT at 270psf.. Such a low psf, how high a price will the developer launch at?

Monitor D23 Mi Casa and the EC Side by Side to draw conclusions.

devilplate
15-08-11, 22:44
Wah very hot topic!

More demand diverted from hdb resale to bto and hence i wud expect cov to drop and stabilise at 20k

I predict ec prices will b raised....remember developer r not govt! They will price their prices according to income ceiling! Den u will noe wat happen to ocr, rcr:cheers6:

Lets monitor the nxt few ec bidding:)

Geylang OKT
15-08-11, 22:50
Wah very hot topic!

More demand diverted from hdb resale to bto and hence i wud expect cov to drop and stabilise at 20k

I predict ec prices will b raised....remember developer r not govt! They will price their prices according to income ceiling! Den u will noe wat happen to ocr, rcr:cheers6:

Lets monitor the nxt few ec bidding:)

May even be ZERO COV or negative COV like it was then some years ago :D :D :D :D

devilplate
15-08-11, 22:57
May even be ZERO COV or negative COV like it was then some years ago :D :D :D :D
Possible but i am solely toking abt the impact of the revision of income ceiling only la. If govt extend the housing grant for resale flats as well, den i wud expect resale px to raise instead.....lets see whether will it be implemented in future

devilplate
15-08-11, 23:18
Possible but i am solely toking abt the impact of the revision of income ceiling only la. If govt extend the housing grant for resale flats as well, den i wud expect resale px to raise instead.....lets see whether will it be implemented in future
Housing grant for resale up to 10k now....previously was 8k?
If so, expect cov to stay at current level......

taggy
16-08-11, 06:27
Housing grant for resale up to 10k now....previously was 8k?
If so, expect cov to stay at current level......

First timers - family grant
11-12k group suddenly get 10k grant to buy ec
10-11k group suddenly get 20k grant to buy ec
8-10k group suddenly get 30k grant to buy resale hdb

Single Singapore Citizen
previously, up to 3k single, get 11k grant to buy resale hdb
now, up to 5k single, get 15k grant to buy resale hdb

Joint Singles Scheme
previously, up to 8k group, to get 11k grant to buy resale hdb
now, up to 10k group, get 15k grant to buy resale hdb

http://app.mnd.gov.sg/Newsroom/NewsPage.aspx?ID=2862&category=Press%20Release&year=2011&RA1=&RA2=&RA3=
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10321p.nsf/w/BuyResaleFlatCPFGrantFamily?OpenDocument

yes, although the general consensus seems that resale hdb price to be affected, but, what i see from the changes, is increase in grants for many to buy resale hdb leh :D

ysyap
16-08-11, 07:06
While OCR mass market might be slightly affected negatively with the new income ceiling, resale HDB should benefit the most. Now there is a larger pool of richer HDB buyers with grants and pockets after the ceiling increment! Hmmm... so COV will go up lor! :o

hyenergix
16-08-11, 07:09
First timers - family grant
11-12k group suddenly get 10k grant to buy ec
10-11k group suddenly get 20k grant to buy ec
8-10k group suddenly get 30k grant to buy resale hdb

Single Singapore Citizen
previously, up to 3k single, get 11k grant to buy resale hdb
now, up to 5k single, get 15k grant to buy resale hdb

Joint Singles Scheme
previously, up to 8k group, to get 11k grant to buy resale hdb
now, up to 10k group, get 15k grant to buy resale hdb

http://app.mnd.gov.sg/Newsroom/NewsPage.aspx?ID=2862&category=Press%20Release&year=2011&RA1=&RA2=&RA3=
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10321p.nsf/w/BuyResaleFlatCPFGrantFamily?OpenDocument

yes, although the general consensus seems that resale hdb price to be affected, but, what i see from the changes, is increase in grants for many to buy resale hdb leh :D

This is akin to printing $ for the HDB buyers and inflating COV. The $8k-10k group will up the HDB COV by max of $30k. This is indeed good news for mass market condos targetting HDB upgraders.

DC33_2008
16-08-11, 08:16
Goodies are also given out at National Day rally these days. Bottomline is Garment have heard the people and now have done something for this group of people. "Don't come back and complain". Good for the property market as things will continue to change hand and move. !
First timers - family grant
11-12k group suddenly get 10k grant to buy ec
10-11k group suddenly get 20k grant to buy ec
8-10k group suddenly get 30k grant to buy resale hdb

Single Singapore Citizen
previously, up to 3k single, get 11k grant to buy resale hdb
now, up to 5k single, get 15k grant to buy resale hdb

Joint Singles Scheme
previously, up to 8k group, to get 11k grant to buy resale hdb
now, up to 10k group, get 15k grant to buy resale hdb

http://app.mnd.gov.sg/Newsroom/NewsPage.aspx?ID=2862&category=Press%20Release&year=2011&RA1=&RA2=&RA3=
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10321p.nsf/w/BuyResaleFlatCPFGrantFamily?OpenDocument

yes, although the general consensus seems that resale hdb price to be affected, but, what i see from the changes, is increase in grants for many to buy resale hdb leh :D

kingkong1984
16-08-11, 08:31
This is akin to printing $ for the HDB buyers and inflating COV. The $8k-10k group will up the HDB COV by max of $30k. This is indeed good news for mass market condos targetting HDB upgraders.

Overall should stablise. Everything holds and with little upside.

What the subsidy does is actually increasing the purchasing power. Offsetting the downpayment part. Other than that, it is price as usual.

You must grasp the concept of

1) Substitution
2) Consumption
3) Restitution
4) Contribution
5) Retribution
6) Frustration
7) Resignation

1. EC and Mass Market Condo are subsitutes.

2) Consumption is buy for self stay irregardless of pricing.

3) Restitution to the former or original state or position (Purchasing power).

4) Contribution to the inflated or deflated state (coffers).

5) Retribution for the wrong deeds or greed.

6) Frustration for unable to find buyers to buy at your asking price.

7) Resignation and accept the highest among the lowest.

It's a beautiful NATION.

avo7007
16-08-11, 17:03
While OCR mass market might be slightly affected negatively with the new income ceiling, resale HDB should benefit the most. Now there is a larger pool of richer HDB buyers with grants and pockets after the ceiling increment! Hmmm... so COV will go up lor! :o

One step forward, two steps back.:doh:

hopeful
16-08-11, 18:12
Nobody talked about raiding the reserves ? :cool:
Will the Singapore President approved of raiding the reserves?
or this year have budget surplus, so no need President's approval ?

Opposition didnt make any noise about raiding the reserves?

taggy
16-08-11, 19:30
While OCR mass market might be slightly affected negatively with the new income ceiling, resale HDB should benefit the most. Now there is a larger pool of richer HDB buyers with grants and pockets after the ceiling increment! Hmmm... so COV will go up lor! :o

dun noe COV will really go up or not, because grants is in terms of CPF, buyers still need to come out with cold hard cash for COV+5% of valuation price. :rolleyes:

linchong84
16-08-11, 20:13
the grants are for first timer only... and most first timer buy BTOs... So i dunno why u all so excited with how the grant will affect MOP.. ha..

ysyap
16-08-11, 20:24
the grants are for first timer only... and most first timer buy BTOs... So i dunno why u all so excited with how the grant will affect MOP.. ha..So who's excited with how the grant will affect MOP? :confused:

CCR
16-08-11, 20:27
Nobody talked about raiding the reserves ? :cool:
Will the Singapore President approved of raiding the reserves?
or this year have budget surplus, so no need President's approval ?

Opposition didnt make any noise about raiding the reserves?

Gahmen is using current budget surplus for all these grants.... That's why don't need president approval.... If you understand our budgetary process you will know how rich Singapore is....

Proceed from any land sales goes straight to reserves... Any budget surplus goes straight to reserves.... All income earn from investment, half of it goes straight to reserves.... But when we build roads, MRT, any form of infrastructure, even very long term infrastruture like gardens by the bay, barrage etc, are classified as current account budget.... Hence when gahmen say there is a budget deficit it's actually not true....

I mean on a personal level, when we buy a car or buy a house we use our current year salary to fund it right? We dip into our savings to pay the downpayment etc.... So Singapore budget is really very conservative... That is Singapore is so rich....

Actually nobody knows exactly how rich we are..... I think easily our reserves from gic and temasek, MAS, MOF, will add up tomat least 600 to 700 billion man..... I think it might be so high that we might be shy to announce openly...

Singapore is hence really secure...

linchong84
16-08-11, 20:28
So who's excited with how the grant will affect MOP? :confused:

read upwards.. there are some discussion linking grants to MOP value.. I thought it is a very weak link.. the affected potential buyers are too small a grp to make any significant impact.. 1st timers who received grants are mostly young couples getting married.. they buy btos one..

linchong84
16-08-11, 20:30
Gahmen is using current budget surplus for all these grants.... That's why don't need president approval.... If you understand our budgetary process you will know how rich Singapore is....

Proceed from any land sales goes straight to reserves... Any budget surplus goes straight to reserves.... All income earn from investment, half of it goes straight to reserves.... But when we build roads, MRT, any form of infrastructure, even very long term infrastruture like gardens by the bay, barrage etc, are classified as current account budget.... Hence when gahmen say there is a budget deficit it's actually not true....

I mean on a personal level, when we buy a car or buy a house we use our current year salary to fund it right? We dip into our savings to pay the downpayment etc.... So Singapore budget is really very conservative... That is Singapore is so rich....

Actually nobody knows exactly how rich we are..... I think easily our reserves from gic and temasek, MAS, MOF, will add up tomat least 600 to 700 billion man..... I think it might be so high that we might be shy to announce openly...

Singapore is hence really secure...

depends on what currency they are holding it in.. and wat stocks they are buying.. although it's a lot of $$$, but a lot might also be lost in fx and investment losses..

amk
16-08-11, 20:39
Allow more ppl eligible for BTO and EC.. So those complain cannot buy HDB happy
Give more grants at the same time, so resale px won't crash... So upgraders also happy...
Does it look like a win win ? :confused:

kingkong1984
16-08-11, 20:42
Hey... Imagine your 4 room flat is at 400k

5 room flat at 500k....

Pc at 1 million

3 years later, 4 room flat at 440k, 5 room at 550k.... But pc is at 1.5 million.... U think win win? Good outcome?

linchong84
16-08-11, 20:48
Hey... Imagine your 4 room flat is at 400k

5 room flat at 500k....

Pc at 1 million

3 years later, 4 room flat at 440k, 5 room at 550k.... But pc is at 1.5 million.... U think win win? Good outcome?

why will PC's value increase by 50% while HDB only 10%. Won't happen assuming similar market conditions and location..

kingkong1984
16-08-11, 20:49
why will PC's value increase by 50% while HDB only 10%. Won't happen assuming similar market conditions and location..

U come back after 3 yrs and see....

Tag this as 3year

linchong84
16-08-11, 20:55
U come back after 3 yrs and see....

Tag this as 3year

although i feel the recent measures that MND introduced will curb resale MOP prices, but it might come a little too late..

The DBSS will create new benchmarks.. To make a decent profit, the pricest unit in the upcoming pasir ris dbss has to sell at around 900k.. The HDBs in pasir ris will be pulled up.. and domino domino, the rest of the towns in singapore will adjust upwards as pasir ris is such a fringe town..

A few years later when the earlier DBSS finish the MOP, buyers won't sell at a loss and there will definitely be resale buyers who will bite at exp price tags, creating new benchmarks..

KBW might have been screwed by MBT's DBSS legacy..

So KBW might eventually have to privatise the DBSS to prevent it from ballooning HDB's prices..

evergreen
16-08-11, 21:01
Nobody talked about raiding the reserves ? :cool:
Will the Singapore President approved of raiding the reserves?
or this year have budget surplus, so no need President's approval ?

Opposition didnt make any noise about raiding the reserves?
Tan Jee Say questioned the rationale behind taxing people and chalking up reserves - are people being taxed too much?

kingkong1984
16-08-11, 21:08
I have learnt that price up is ok. Everyone is happy except for those buying for the first time. Grants will breach the gap.

The the most important thing is relativity.

Imagine 30 yrs ago, landed for 30k and hdb at 3k, monthly income 30 on avg.

Then 30 yr later, landed gained 50 times to 1.5 million but hdb gained 10 times to 150k... Like that? Considered hdb rich or private richer?

taggy
16-08-11, 21:08
although i feel the recent measures that MND introduced will curb resale MOP prices, but it might come a little too late..

The DBSS will create new benchmarks.. To make a decent profit, the pricest unit in the upcoming pasir ris dbss has to sell at around 900k.. The HDBs in pasir ris will be pulled up.. and domino domino, the rest of the towns in singapore will adjust upwards as pasir ris is such a fringe town..

A few years later when the earlier DBSS finish the MOP, buyers won't sell at a loss and there will definitely be resale buyers who will bite at exp price tags, creating new benchmarks..

KBW might have been screwed by MBT's DBSS legacy..

So KBW might eventually have to privatise the DBSS to prevent it from ballooning HDB's prices..


what is "resale MOP prices"? :D
only heard of "resale price", "resale COV", "resale MOP(minimum occupation period)"

amk
16-08-11, 21:50
Hey... Imagine your 4 room flat is at 400k

5 room flat at 500k....

Pc at 1 million

3 years later, 4 room flat at 440k, 5 room at 550k.... But pc is at 1.5 million.... U think win win? Good outcome?

What does this have anything to do with the new HDB policies ? To me the new policies have addressed specific ppl's specific needs. It's at least politically correct.

kingkong1984
16-08-11, 22:12
What does this have anything to do with the new HDB policies ? To me the new policies have addressed specific ppl's specific needs. It's at least politically correct.

I thought affordability is the issue here... So asking if this is better.... Hdb more affordable and not in line with pte.. Will singaporeans be happier?

hyenergix
16-08-11, 22:19
What does this have anything to do with the new HDB policies ? To me the new policies have addressed specific ppl's specific needs. It's at least politically correct.

The policy did not address young couple's needs. In fact things will be worse for them, since many new groups can now buy HDB and enjoy more discounts, thus theoretically able to offer higher COV. Only the $8-12k group is happier.

taggy
16-08-11, 22:24
Only the $8-12k group is happier.

I so agree, one group's gain equal the other groups lost.
Below 8k group should start to complain and ask for more grant... Let the up trend continue :p

Regulators
16-08-11, 22:25
During the general election, it was about affordability and hdb flats being too expensive. It seems now they are raising ceiling so more people can buy, seems rather contradictory before and after ge

Geylang OKT
16-08-11, 22:29
Immediate impact: the HDB resale and pty property markets will lose some of the 10k to 12k salary segment who would change to buying HDB subsidised flats instead :D

ysyap
16-08-11, 22:33
During the general election, it was about affordability and hdb flats being too expensive. It seems now they are raising ceiling so more people can buy, seems rather contradictory before and after geIncome ceiling was also one of the issue discussed during the last GE.

Anyway, it is indeed contradicting when the introduction of the revised income ceiling will potentially raise the buying power of couples for HDB resale. This would inevitably result in price escalation due to higher COV and affordability was also one of the hot button topic during GE.

hyenergix
16-08-11, 22:35
Income ceiling was also one of the issue discussed during the last GE.

Anyway, it is indeed contradicting when the introduction of the revised income ceiling will potentially raise the buying power of couples for HDB resale. This would inevitably result in price escalation due to higher COV and affordability was also one of the hot button topic during GE.

The $10-12k income group should not enjoy any subsidies, and this should be diverted to the lower income group instead. Being able to buy HDB is already a privilege. Perhaps the $10-12k group are more vocal.

Geylang OKT
16-08-11, 22:36
Income ceiling was also one of the issue discussed during the last GE.

Anyway, it is indeed contradicting when the introduction of the revised income ceiling will potentially raise the buying power of couples for HDB resale. This would inevitably result in price escalation due to higher COV and affordability was also one of the hot button topic during GE.

Not really, the huge number of BTO flats and other offerings coming on board in increasing numbers will nullify any increase, if at all.

taggy
16-08-11, 22:37
Immediate impact: the HDB resale and pty property markets will lose some of the 10k to 12k salary segment who would change to buying HDB subsidised flats instead :D

Actually even before the new rule, is there really so many 10-12k locals buying Hdb resale? Face conscious, I think most had gone for condo liao leh... :D

Geylang OKT
16-08-11, 22:39
Actually even before the new rule, is there really so many 10-12k locals buying Hdb resale? Face conscious, I think most had gone for condo liao leh... :D

I would rather want to make more money than worry about face lah :D

hyenergix
16-08-11, 22:42
Actually even before the new rule, is there really so many 10-12k locals buying Hdb resale? Face conscious, I think most had gone for condo liao leh... :D

The buyers most likely buy one HDB, then 5 years later buy another condo. Then they rent out the HDB, or sell the HDB for mega profit. Suffer for 5 years only mah. A lot of HDB are in good locations too.

jwong71
16-08-11, 22:44
Actually even before the new rule, is there really so many 10-12k locals buying Hdb resale? Face conscious, I think most had gone for condo liao leh... :D

i think most would wanna buy and hold a hdb cash cow, to milk rental. and save for 5yrs for a condo later. anyway on the streets, common to hear that hdb is cashcow for rental. so who wouldnt want??

ysyap
16-08-11, 22:50
i think most would wanna buy and hold a hdb cash cow, to milk rental. and save for 5yrs for a condo later. anyway on the streets, common to hear that hdb is cashcow for rental. so who wouldnt want??Milk while you can before Govt introduce measures to curb this cash cow! Things are very unpredictable these days! :D

taggy
16-08-11, 23:05
i think most would wanna buy and hold a hdb cash cow, to milk rental. and save for 5yrs for a condo later. anyway on the streets, common to hear that hdb is cashcow for rental. so who wouldnt want??

i think it is the below 10k (previously is below 8k) group buy hdb resale, bec they get 30k grant.

for the 10-12k group, all along they do not get 30k grant for hdb resale, so i reckon few from this group were/are buying hdb resale. So for this group, i think now they will just switch their target from condo to ec(for cheaper price and grants). :cool:

Geylang OKT
16-08-11, 23:10
i think it is the below 10k (previously is below 8k) group buy hdb resale, bec they get 30k grant.

for the 10-12k group, all along they do not get 30k grant for hdb resale, so i reckon few from this group were/are buying hdb resale. So for this group, i think now they will just switch their target from condo to ec(for cheaper price and grants). :cool:

Why would they want to buy resale hdb? Hello... the 10k to 12k group are gunning for the hdb subsidised flats lah! :p :p :p :p

If you want to buy hdb resale in the first place.... there is no salary cap! ;)

jwong71
16-08-11, 23:15
i think it is the below 10k (previously is below 8k) group buy hdb resale, bec they get 30k grant.

for the 10-12k group, all along they do not get 30k grant for hdb resale, so i reckon few from this group were/are buying hdb resale. So for this group, i think now they will just switch their target from condo to ec(for cheaper price and grants). :cool:

what the 30k grant, when they can buy new hdb at 260k and sell 400-450k in 5yrs time..

30k vs 100-200k profits.. ur choice??

jwong71
16-08-11, 23:18
Why would they want to buy resale hdb? Hello... the 10k to 12k group are gunning for the hdb subsidised flats lah! :p :p :p :p

If you want to buy hdb resale in the first place.... there is no salary cap! ;)

you right, im gunning the new hdb soon.

30k grant vs 100-200k profits,

and

30 yrs old 3i 721sqft hdb(300-350k) VS brand new 4a 990sqft hdb(260-300k).

Geylang OKT
16-08-11, 23:22
you right, im gunning the new hdb soon.

30k grant vs 100-200k profits,

and

30 yrs old 3i 721sqft hdb(300-350k) VS brand new 4a 990sqft hdb(260-300k).

Smart move Bro! :D

jwong71
16-08-11, 23:24
Smart move Bro! :D

not just me, almost everyone and colleagues are looking forward to the hdb new launches:D

devilplate
16-08-11, 23:27
not just me, almost everyone and colleagues are looking forward to the hdb new launches:D
Tot u own condo b4?:confused:

jwong71
16-08-11, 23:28
Tot u own condo b4?:confused:

yup.. need to wait for 30months after dispose..
soon la, just nice when the market correct.

Geylang OKT
16-08-11, 23:29
yup.. need to wait for 30months after dispose..
soon la, just nice when the market correct.

You are waiting for another 2.5yrs?

I think the market has already started correcting :D :D :D

devilplate
16-08-11, 23:30
yup.. need to wait for 30months after dispose..
soon la, just nice when the market correct.
Since u got the money to fry condo, y aim for hdb bto? Time is precious:2cents:

I wud rather u wait for recession if it happen and hoot condo or landed....den equity cash out on the paper profit or sell one to get a resale flat.

See above again:D

jwong71
16-08-11, 23:30
You are waiting for another 2.5yrs? :D :D :D

nope.. lesser years to countdown liao.

standby some funds for a new hdb and a condo under my parents' name

Geylang OKT
16-08-11, 23:31
Since u got the money to fry condo, y aim for hdb bto? Time is precious:2cents:

Why buy now when you can buy cheaper half a year later and much much cheaper a couple of years down the road? :D :D :D

jwong71
16-08-11, 23:32
Since u got the money to fry condo, y aim for hdb bto? Time is precious:2cents:

hdb cashcow lei.. hoot condos in parents' name,when the time come.

good to hold cheap cashcow.:D

taggy
16-08-11, 23:32
Immediate impact: the HDB resale and pty property markets will lose some of the 10k to 12k salary segment who would change to buying HDB subsidised flats instead :Di think it is the below 10k (previously is below 8k) group buy hdb resale, bec they get 30k grant.

for the 10-12k group, all along they do not get 30k grant for hdb resale, so i reckon few from this group were/are buying hdb resale. So for this group, i think now they will just switch their target from condo to ec(for cheaper price and grants). :cool:
what the 30k grant, when they can buy new hdb at 260k and sell 400-450k in 5yrs time..

30k vs 100-200k profits.. ur choice??

er.. actually my argument is, 10-12k group do not impact hdb resale much lah.
if below 10k, then buy bto lor :D

devilplate
16-08-11, 23:33
hdb cashcow lei.. in future to buy condo in parents' name,
Ur wife dun mind tat arrangement?

maisonjai
16-08-11, 23:35
In a way Gov acknowledged that hdb prices have to go up, letting 8k-10k into bto segment is laying a stronger pillar to support the pricing. 10k-12k group shifting to EC may not be significant, they will look into upside potential. EC & OCR PC pricing whether up or down, we can't deny that developers have a hand in it.

I reckon that 8-10k group could easily afford to upgrade after MOP.

PR will have easier time to buy resale hdb too, lesser competition. This group needs immediate housing.

Need 6 months to see the impact...interesting.:cheers6:

devilplate
16-08-11, 23:38
hdb cashcow lei.. hoot condos in parents' name,when the time come.

good to hold cheap cashcow.:D
Main killer is the roughly 8yrs period tat u cannot invest in pte ppty. Mabe u r the only child and ur wife dun mind u park ur money under parent name den its fine lor.....

Geylang OKT
16-08-11, 23:39
er.. actually my argument is, 10-12k group do not impact hdb resale much lah.
if below 10k, then buy bto lor :D

Bro, those earning monthly household incomes of $10k to $12k previously had no choice but to buy resale or private properties - due to the previous salary ceiling caps of $8k to $10k. Now they have a choice to buy cheaper (subsidised) and brand new flats! :D :D :D

devilplate
16-08-11, 23:39
Why buy now when you can buy cheaper half a year later and much much cheaper a couple of years down the road? :D :D :D
U like to make baseless assumptions:p

hopeful
16-08-11, 23:40
Gahmen is using current budget surplus for all these grants.... That's why don't need president approval.... If you understand our budgetary process you will know how rich Singapore is....

Proceed from any land sales goes straight to reserves... Any budget surplus goes straight to reserves.... All income earn from investment, half of it goes straight to reserves.... But when we build roads, MRT, any form of infrastructure, even very long term infrastruture like gardens by the bay, barrage etc, are classified as current account budget.... Hence when gahmen say there is a budget deficit it's actually not true....
..........

I was referring to this article by MBT.
http://www.straitstimes.com/GeneralElection/News/Story/STIStory_659136.html
NATIONAL Development Minister Mah Bow Tan has slammed the Workers' Party (WP) proposals to make new HDB flats cheaper, saying they will devalue the flats of one million current homeowners and illegally raid Singapore's reserves.

I thought that by giving more grants (subsidies), government earn less and hence raiding the reserves......
When PAP spent, it is not called raiding the reserves.:cool:
When Opposition proposed, it is called raiding the reserves and Singapore will bankrupt soon.:scared-5:

Geylang OKT
16-08-11, 23:41
U like to make baseless assumptions:p

We shall see :) :) :) :)

devilplate
16-08-11, 23:42
Bro, those earning monthly household incomes of $10k to $12k previously had no choice but to buy resale or private properties - due to the previous salary ceiling caps of $8k to $10k. Now they have a choice to buy cheaper (subsidised) and brand new flats! :D :D :D
Now those 10-12k can only buy ec wat....how can they buy bto?

And i strongly believe ec px will be increased if demand is strong from this newly qualified group! Remember ocr will be 15-20% higher den ec px

devilplate
16-08-11, 23:44
We shall see :) :) :) :)
I din even tell jwong to buy now.....u r making ur own assumptions on my previous comments la:tongue3:

maisonjai
16-08-11, 23:45
hdb cashcow lei.. hoot condos in parents' name,when the time come.

good to hold cheap cashcow.:D

are there any recent bto that caught your attention? Must ballot if oversubsribe & wait 8 yrs.

Geylang OKT
16-08-11, 23:45
Now those 10-12k can only buy ec wat....how can they buy bto?

And i strongly believe ec px will be increased if demand is strong from this newly qualified group! Remember ocr will be 15-20% higher den ec px

Sorry for the over-generalisation, I meant the $8k to $10k segment for BTO and $10k+ to $12k segment for EC.

devilplate
16-08-11, 23:45
I was referring to this article by MBT.
http://www.straitstimes.com/GeneralElection/News/Story/STIStory_659136.html
NATIONAL Development Minister Mah Bow Tan has slammed the Workers' Party (WP) proposals to make new HDB flats cheaper, saying they will devalue the flats of one million current homeowners and illegally raid Singapore's reserves.

I thought that by giving more grants (subsidies), government earn less and hence raiding the reserves......
When PAP spent, it is not called raiding the reserves.:cool:
When Opposition proposed, it is called raiding the reserves and Singapore will bankrupt soon.:scared-5:
U still cannot get over GE?:rolleyes:

amk
16-08-11, 23:46
I was referring to this article by MBT.
http://www.straitstimes.com/GeneralElection/News/Story/STIStory_659136.html
NATIONAL Development Minister Mah Bow Tan has slammed the Workers' Party (WP) proposals to make new HDB flats cheaper, saying they will devalue the flats of one million current homeowners and illegally raid Singapore's reserves.

I thought that by giving more grants (subsidies), government earn less and hence raiding the reserves......
When PAP spent, it is not called raiding the reserves.:cool:
When Opposition proposed, it is called raiding the reserves and Singapore will bankrupt soon.:scared-5:

U r reading it out of context. Opposition's idea is to reduce the selling price of HDB, by not linking its land price to "market price". That's a direct "raid" so to speak, because the land price goes to reserve straight. The new PAP policies say nothing about change of HDB price. It only gives more grants. Grants come from gov currenct account budget, not from reserve.

Geylang OKT
16-08-11, 23:47
I din even tell jwong to buy now.....u r making ur own assumptions on my previous comments la:tongue3:

You said time is precious remember? ;) ;) ;)

devilplate
16-08-11, 23:47
Sorry for the over-generalisation, I meant the $8k to $10k segment for BTO and $10k+ to $12k segment for EC.
I beginning to like kbw den mbt liao....kbw seems to noe tat he shd tackle hdb prices and let pte condo on market forces:D :cheers6:

devilplate
16-08-11, 23:48
You said time is precious remember? ;) ;) ;)
Yes....buy bto, 8yrs cant invest pte....stay pteless for 8goddamn years...wat u say? Hehe

DaytonaSS
16-08-11, 23:49
Why buy now when you can buy cheaper half a year later and much much cheaper a couple of years down the road? :D :D :D

good idea, i hope to buy in another property, maybe @ the sail in 4 years time when then construction there settle. By then should fall till 900 psf liao? IF i wait 8 years will it become 500 psf? i can pick up few in one shot, what u think?

devilplate
16-08-11, 23:50
U r reading it out of context. Opposition's idea is to reduce the selling price of HDB, by not linking its land price to "market price". That's a direct "raid" so to speak, because the land price goes to reserve straight. The new PAP policies say nothing about change of HDB price. It only gives more grants. Grants come from gov currenct account budget, not from reserve.
Bro, y u bother to xplain?

This guy jus trying to fan fire lah

Geylang OKT
16-08-11, 23:51
good idea, i hope to buy in another property, maybe @ the sail in 4 years time when then construction there settle. By then should fall till 900 psf liao? IF i wait 8 years will it become 500 psf? i can pick up few in one shot, what u think?

Good idea! And if you wait even longer, it may become 300 psf ;) ;) ;) ;)

amk
16-08-11, 23:51
Now those 10-12k can only buy ec wat....how can they buy bto?

And i strongly believe ec px will be increased if demand is strong from this newly qualified group! Remember ocr will be 15-20% higher den ec px

Actually what's the general OCR upgrader's income level ? 10-12k can buy a 1m OCR or not ?

devilplate
16-08-11, 23:52
good idea, i hope to buy in another property, maybe @ the sail in 4 years time when then construction there settle. By then should fall till 900 psf liao? IF i wait 8 years will it become 500 psf? i can pick up few in one shot, what u think?
Construction cost 300psf and only can rise......so whcih means land cost only 100psf inorder for u to buy at 500psf....like dat hoot gcb better la....land cheap cheap by den! Whahahhaha

land118
16-08-11, 23:53
Yes....buy bto, 8yrs cant invest pte....stay pteless for 8goddamn years...wat u say? Hehe
Many people din think abt this, KBW caged up a segment of potential buyers/upgraders for 8 long years.., would presume most buyers aspiration' aspiration is private condos, likely OCR mass market...to start with...

devilplate
16-08-11, 23:54
Actually what's the general OCR upgrader's income level ? 10-12k can buy a 1m OCR or not ?
I mentioned b4, 3k salary got loan approval for 400k mortgage loan:cool:

Int rate damn low now which means eligible for higher loan.....bubble! Luvin it:D

devilplate
16-08-11, 23:56
Many people din think abt this, KBW caged up a segment of potential buyers/upgraders for 8 long years.., would presume most buyers aspiration' aspiration is private condos, likely OCR mass market...to start with...
Its not a bad idea to buy bto if u dun have much cash to start wif, but jwong situation is different....he oredi earned his 1st bucket of gold....so y waste his precious time on bto?

DaytonaSS
16-08-11, 23:58
Good idea! And if you wait even longer, it may become 300 psf ;) ;) ;) ;)
kao, got chance become free or not?

wait bros here say wait 100 year they burn for us wor..........

devilplate
16-08-11, 23:59
kao, got chance become free or not?
WW3:hell-hath-no-fury:

jwong71
17-08-11, 00:00
Its not a bad idea to buy bto if u dun have much cash to start wif, but jwong situation is different....he oredi earned his 1st bucket of gold....so y waste his precious time on bto?

in current situation it make sense to go for hdb, promising profits.

but condos at current price, haiz..

but i have it planned out, with parents. yes im only child.

land118
17-08-11, 00:02
WW3:hell-hath-no-fury:
After nuclear WW3, when mankind probably almost kena wiped out..., Free to "joab" anywhere u like for survivors...

taggy
17-08-11, 00:08
in current situation it make sense to go for hdb, promising profits.

but condos at current price, haiz..

but i have it planned out, with parents. yes im only child.

"Does it makes sense to buy EC if you are now qualified to buy BTO?"
many people switching position ? :D

DaytonaSS
17-08-11, 00:13
in current situation it make sense to go for hdb, promising profits.

but condos at current price, haiz..

but i have it planned out, with parents. yes im only child.

so its true? HDB is no longer a roof over head, but a speculation instruction?

jwong71
17-08-11, 00:15
so its true? HDB is no longer a roof over head, but a speculation instruction?

i tot its alrdy commonly known to all, and openly discussed on this forum to play ard with their hdb.??

Geylang OKT
17-08-11, 00:17
so its true? HDB is no longer a roof over head, but a speculation instruction?

If one can buy first hand (new) and heavily subsidised flat compared to a resale hdb flat (read older with the 99LH timeframe merrily ticking away) and heftily priced (granted got freebies like housing grant of $30k to $40k), I would say go apply for the former :D

taggy
17-08-11, 00:23
If one can buy first hand (new) and heavily subsidised flat compared to a resale hdb flat (read older with the 99LH timeframe merrily ticking away) and heftily priced (granted got freebies like housing grant of $30k to $40k), I would say go apply for the former :D

this is so true, provided u got time to wait and like the bto location. Pinnacle@duxton was sure a good choice :D

devilplate
17-08-11, 00:35
If one can buy first hand (new) and heavily subsidised flat compared to a resale hdb flat (read older with the 99LH timeframe merrily ticking away) and heftily priced (granted got freebies like housing grant of $30k to $40k), I would say go apply for the former :D
Previously was 3yrs mop witout grant for resale which make better sense den buying bto....now resale 5yrs compared to bto 3+5yrs....ya bto more attractive

devilplate
17-08-11, 00:37
in current situation it make sense to go for hdb, promising profits.

but condos at current price, haiz..

but i have it planned out, with parents. yes im only child.
I guess u noe it best. :)

solsys
17-08-11, 09:01
Now those 10-12k can only buy ec wat....how can they buy bto?

And i strongly believe ec px will be increased if demand is strong from this newly qualified group! Remember ocr will be 15-20% higher den ec px

Agree on this, just wait for OCR mass mkt units supply to dry up a little and when 10k-12k no choice but to buy EC. Developers one way or and another will make it work for themselves by slowly increasing the prices coz by then these people don't have much other options.

solsys
17-08-11, 09:09
Actually what's the general OCR upgrader's income level ? 10-12k can buy a 1m OCR or not ?

Confirm can at the current low interest rates. The only thing stopping them is the downpayment, which they might not have saved enough if they are young.

Then again $12k is really alot for young couples to begin with.

ysyap
17-08-11, 09:51
Confirm can at the current low interest rates. The only thing stopping them is the downpayment, which they might not have saved enough if they are young.

Then again $12k is really alot for young couples to begin with.Not alot if they are marrying late like in the mid 30s, or they both are in the finance industry during boom times! :D

Lovelle
17-08-11, 14:30
Previously was 3yrs mop witout grant for resale which make better sense den buying bto....now resale 5yrs compared to bto 3+5yrs....ya bto more attractive

at one time , Khaw said, BTO is not hdb. Can we (condo owner) buy BTO then ?

ysyap
17-08-11, 15:17
at one time , Khaw said, BTO is not hdb. Can we (condo owner) buy BTO then ?Go to HDB, quote their minister and then let us know if you have bought BTO. :D Thought he was talking about DBSS? :confused:

devilplate
17-08-11, 18:15
at one time , Khaw said, BTO is not hdb. Can we (condo owner) buy BTO then ?
R u sure he said tat? He said dbss is not hdb rite? But we also dunwan to buy dbss even if we r allowed to....whahahaha

linchong84
17-08-11, 20:14
R u sure he said tat? He said dbss is not hdb rite? But we also dunwan to buy dbss even if we r allowed to....whahahaha

now think of it, dbss maybe not bad.. maybe mnd will privatise them so that their high pricing will not mess with normal hdb pricing to balloon entire public housing prices.. then all the dbss will become gold mine if they become pte properties due to their good location..

maybe......

ysyap
17-08-11, 21:34
now think of it, dbss maybe not bad.. maybe mnd will privatise them so that their high pricing will not mess with normal hdb pricing to balloon entire public housing prices.. then all the dbss will become gold mine if they become pte properties due to their good location..

maybe......If privatize also must implement some security measures to enhance the attractiveness of dbss otherwise private also no one want to buy! :D

Allthepies
17-08-11, 22:05
at one time , Khaw said, BTO is not hdb. Can we (condo owner) buy BTO then ?

Yup keep us informed, or u can start a thread to start a mass complain to allow us private owners to buy hdb, got chance mnd will relent :D :D

hyenergix
17-08-11, 22:12
All Singaporeans (who have been here for more than x years) should be allowed to buy HDBs. Quite strange PRs are allowed to buy. But if you ban PRs now, prices of HDBs might collapse. The property bubble is mostly due to PRs' and new citizens' demand.

linchong84
17-08-11, 22:17
If privatize also must implement some security measures to enhance the attractiveness of dbss otherwise private also no one want to buy! :D

very easy to build walls around it + hire a security guard.. Some already have intercom security features.. for those more spacious site layout, maybe can even build pool..

ysyap
17-08-11, 22:22
very easy to build walls around it + hire a security guard.. Some already have intercom security features.. for those more spacious site layout, maybe can even build pool..Yes, its easy to build but will all residents cooperate and chip in? Just convincing everybody to accept the proposal will take many months or even years! :doh:

Then again those projects that come with intercom security is a potion for disaster. I was able to visit my sister who stays at CityView (which has those intercom) every time without a single time having to buzz her from the lift lobby. So many people walking in and out that I can just enter with no questions asked! :doh:

linchong84
17-08-11, 22:27
Yes, its easy to build but will all residents cooperate and chip in? Just convincing everybody to accept the proposal will take many months or even years! :doh:

Then again those projects that come with intercom security is a potion for disaster. I was able to visit my sister who stays at CityView (which has those intercom) every time without a single time having to buzz her from the lift lobby. So many people walking in and out that I can just enter with no questions asked! :doh:

intercom without walls+guard is pointless..

But intercom+wall+guard should be good deterrence even though they can be overcame easily too..

Allthepies
17-08-11, 23:00
All Singaporeans (who have been here for more than x years) should be allowed to buy HDBs. Quite strange PRs are allowed to buy. But if you ban PRs now, prices of HDBs might collapse. The property bubble is mostly due to PRs' and new citizens' demand.

Rightfully all singaporeans should be allowed to buy hdb :D hope the relevant minister will read our posts......

ysyap
18-08-11, 07:48
Rightfully all singaporeans should be allowed to buy hdb :D hope the relevant minister will read our posts......I guess their initial reason for not allowing pc owners to buy public houses because there is a steep demand from young couples as a result of undersupply. Now, with impending oversupply come 2013 and beyond, mnd should just reopen hdb to pc owners again! :cheers1:

howgozit
18-08-11, 08:45
Rightfully all singaporeans should be allowed to buy hdb :D hope the relevant minister will read our posts......

Do you mean even those with private properties already be allowed to buy HDB?

And also when you say all Singaporeans, you mean regardless of income as well? Ie. no income ceiling?

hyenergix
18-08-11, 08:49
Y not? We work hard n pay more taxes.

howgozit
18-08-11, 09:01
Y not? We work hard n pay more taxes.

Uh.. ok. Just that HDB prices will hit the roof. Its originally meant to be public housing and meet basic housing needs. MBT's liberalisation of HDB rules to clear the backlog created by the housing glut post 1997 has caused the HDB to sky rocket in the last few years.

Don't say the ministers, no opposition will go for it either.

evergreen
18-08-11, 21:15
Why should singles under 35 years old be ineligible for public housing? Singles also have that basic need for housing.

Why should a person who earns more than $5k (or joint applications earning more than the salary ceiling) be ineligible for public housing grants? Salary does not account for expenditure for dependents, e.g. parents with high medical bills.

The increase in grants and salary ceiling will translate into higher demand, and increase in COV of resale flats and base prices of new flats because the fundamental issue of supply remains unresolved. :tsk-tsk:

Allthepies
18-08-11, 22:10
Do you mean even those with private properties already be allowed to buy HDB?

And also when you say all Singaporeans, you mean regardless of income as well? Ie. no income ceiling?

My answer is yes to all the above :D If pr can have unrestricted access to hdb, why not for singaporeans too. We private owner pay so much taxes to subsidize the undeserving 8 to 12k group, so we shod be allow to reap the benefit too. :D

howgozit
19-08-11, 03:28
Why should singles under 35 years old be ineligible for public housing? Singles also have that basic need for housing.

Why should a person who earns more than $5k (or joint applications earning more than the salary ceiling) be ineligible for public housing grants? Salary does not account for expenditure for dependents, e.g. parents with high medical bills.

The increase in grants and salary ceiling will translate into higher demand, and increase in COV of resale flats and base prices of new flats because the fundamental issue of supply remains unresolved. :tsk-tsk:

Totally agree
1. singles<35 restriction be removed or at least revised.
2. expenditure should be taken into consideration for income ceiling eligibilty.

Not sure
1. increase in ceiling should reduce demand in resale sector as more become eligible for new HDB.
2. COV should be lower if demand in resale reduces.
3. supply is now essentially BTO. it is Built-To-Order, you order they build. Once you commit, there will be supply. Of course you have to be eligible first.

radha08
19-08-11, 04:11
Overall should stablise. Everything holds and with little upside.

What the subsidy does is actually increasing the purchasing power. Offsetting the downpayment part. Other than that, it is price as usual.

You must grasp the concept of

1) Substitution
2) Consumption
3) Restitution
4) Contribution
5) Retribution
6) Frustration
7) Resignation

1. EC and Mass Market Condo are subsitutes.

2) Consumption is buy for self stay irregardless of pricing.

3) Restitution to the former or original state or position (Purchasing power).

4) Contribution to the inflated or deflated state (coffers).

5) Retribution for the wrong deeds or greed.

6) Frustration for unable to find buyers to buy at your asking price.

7) Resignation and accept the highest among the lowest.

It's a beautiful NATION.



u forgot 8)D14.....Prostitution.....:D :scared-1: :D :scared-1: :D ....

radha08
19-08-11, 04:16
I guess their initial reason for not allowing pc owners to buy public houses because there is a steep demand from young couples as a result of undersupply. Now, with impending oversupply come 2013 and beyond, mnd should just reopen hdb to pc owners again! :cheers1:

hai ya dont worry all these govt policy like screw tarek anytime can change one market collapse they tell u ok one person can buy 2 x hdb flat....dont worry have faith in our world class govt....:D

howgozit
19-08-11, 04:34
My answer is yes to all the above :D If pr can have unrestricted access to hdb, why not for singaporeans too. We private owner pay so much taxes to subsidize the undeserving 8 to 12k group, so we shod be allow to reap the benefit too. :D


PRs don't have unrestricted access, they cannot buy brand new HDB they can only buy resale.

As for my fellow Singaporeans who are eligible to buy brand new HDB and therefore reap the benefits. I don't begrudge them at all. I wouldn't call them undeserving.

Have some compassion for your fellow Singaporeans lah.... making HDB a free-for-all would make more people suffer the already very high prices.

Geylang OKT
19-08-11, 06:40
u forgot 8)D14.....Prostitution.....:D :scared-1: :D :scared-1: :D ....

very good! :D

Geylang OKT
19-08-11, 06:47
Do you mean even those with private properties already be allowed to buy HDB?

And also when you say all Singaporeans, you mean regardless of income as well? Ie. no income ceiling?

Then that will make hdb prices cheong through the roof several times, precisely what the housing minister is trying to AVOID! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Hdb flats and their prices should not be the playground of the rich and mighty. If these richer folks want to speculate in currently way overpriced properties within CCR and RCR then let them be. Some folks will always subscribe to the greater fool theory (including me). :) :) :) :)

So let the minister take care of the needy and average masses instead! :D :D :D

hyenergix
19-08-11, 06:58
Then that will make hdb prices cheong through the roof several times, precisely what the housing minister is trying to AVOID! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Hdb flats and their prices should not be the playground of the rich and mighty. If these richer folks want to speculate in currently way overpriced properties within CCR and RCR then let them be. Some folks will always subscribe to the greater fool theory (including me). :) :) :) :)

So let the minister take care of the needy and average masses instead! :D :D :D

And the "masses" include? :mad:

PE: 2.27m Singaporeans qualify to vote for new President
(Who are the other 2mil+ "masses")

http://news.xin.msn.com/en/singapore/article.aspx?cp-documentid=5121458

ysyap
19-08-11, 17:20
http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/rIpBMR9eZfUNvuGxE0V0eQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7aD0xMDc7dz02MzA-/http://media.zenfs.com/249/2011/03/01/banner-property_042028.jpg (http://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/property-blog/) if(window.yzq_d==null)window.yzq_d=new Object();window.yzq_d['uCy7AHxsSqY-']='&U=12c517034%2fN%3duCy7AHxsSqY-%2fC%3d-1%2fD%3dLOGO%2fB%3d-1%2fV%3d0';


The ups, downs, ins and outs of HDB news

By iProperty | Property Blog (http://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/property-blog/) – Thu, Aug 18, 2011



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http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/1Kg95y9mlRKbB9kR_71YYw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en-SG/blogs/propertyblog/Dan-HDB-Article-2.jpg (http://mit.zenfs.com/155/2011/08/Dan-HDB-Article-2.jpg) HDB markets are being watched closely (iProperty)



It's been an eventful few weeks for aspiring homeowners. The Housing and Development Board (http://www.iproperty.com.sg/news/3954/MND-Minister-Explains-HDB-Prices) (HDB) recently raised the income ceiling for those looking to buy homes. Couples, the elderly and single people will now find it easier to qualify for a living space.

In his National Day Rally speech, the Prime Minister stated that the income ceiling for those purchasing built-to-order (BTO (http://www.iproperty.com.sg/news/3729/1,000-More-BTO-Flats-Announced)) flats will be raised from $8,000 to $10,000. For executive condominium flats, they are to go up to by $2,000 to $12,000. Those aged above 55 and wishing to buy a purpose-built studio apartment for the elderly now have an income ceiling of $10,000. Previously it was $8,000.

At the same time, households with a high monthly income will receive smaller housing grants than lower earners, in an attempt to create a fair and tiered system, announced National Development Minister Khaw Boon Wan (http://www.iproperty.com.sg/news/3612/PAP%E2%80%99s-housing-blunder).

Potential buyers whose household income is $10,000 are still eligible to receive the entire Central Provident Fund (CPF) Housing Grant worth $30,000. Those earning between $10,000 and $11,000 will receive $20,000. Households that make more than $11,000 will receive $20,000.

Speaking to reporters at The Pinnacle @ Duxton, Mr Khaw expressed his enthusiasm for the new scheme. "If your income is higher, naturally you won't need the subsidies as much as those earning less than you. Even for those earning more, we will still give them grants, albeit in smaller amounts. I feel this would make for a fairer overall system, and people are more likely to be able to accept it."

At the same event, Mr. Khaw mentioned figures of the amount of HDB's that are soon to be put up. He said that the HDB (http://www.iproperty.com.sg/news/3659/Housing-Demand-Picks-Up) will release 8,000 flats (a record number) next month. In total, 25,000 flats are to be released this year. In November, for example, 4,000 built-to-order (BTO) flats will enter the market. As for next year, the projection is for a release of another 25,000 flats.

Some of the released flats will be in mature estates such as Tampines and Kallang/Whampoa. These prime locations are sought-after in the market. He enthused that this would deal with the surge in demand for housing very effectively. "That's why I'm so confident that in three, four years' time, when these units start materialising, whatever pent-up demand, the problem would be largely resolved." He also, however, stressed the need for patience, adding, "It can't happen tomorrow."

Industry experts say that this increased supply will have a strong effect on the market. Chris Koh, the director of the Dennis Wee Group, has estimated that 10 percent of resale flat buyers may now begin looking for new units. The head of research and consultancy at Jones Lang LaSalle (http://www.iproperty.com.sg/news/1968/Jones-Lang-LaSalle-markets-first-building-on-Vietnam%E2%80%99s-open-market), Chua Yang Liang, reports that demand could drop by up to 15 percent. And the results are already being noted, says Mr Khaw.

"I can understand, when prices were going up, everybody rushed in, worried that prices at the next launch would be even higher." He added that the stability brought about as a result of these measures should calm the market.

Mohamed Ismail, chief executive of PropNex, said that announcements regarding the raising of income ceilings were good news for singles and the elderly. Hailing it as a move "in the right direction," Mr. Ismail told The Straits Times that the new ceilings would ease the demand in the market and address the needs of these two groups.

Geylang OKT
20-08-11, 04:34
blah blah blah....

"I can understand, when prices were going up, everybody rushed in, worried that prices at the next launch would be even higher." He added that the stability brought about as a result of these measures should crash the market.

Substitute crash for calm :D :D :D