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teddybear
14-11-11, 13:32
A family of six, living on S$1,900 a month
How do those in the 'sandwiched class', who don't qualify for many assistance schemes, get by?

Updated 01:24 PM Nov 13, 2011
by Carolyn Quek and Yu Pei Fern [email protected]
The first thing you notice when you enter Madam Anna's (not her real name) flat is that the handles of the metal grille gate have broken off, with two wooden blocks crudely fastened in their place.

Her boys had been kicking a football around and damaged the gate, and to save money, the housewife and her husband decided to repair it themselves with pieces of wood someone had discarded at the void deck of their block in Choa Chu Kang.

The "curtain" that is draped across the living room windows is in fact a piece of colourful cotton fabric pegged to the window grille. The same fabric is also used as a throw for the sofa. Instead of chairs, the family sits on wooden benches and stools.

A large Panasonic TV and a personal desktop computer take pride of place in the living room of the flat which the family has called home for the past 10 years. Madam Anna explains that these items were given to them by her youngest brother's friend who was moving house and did not want them anymore. "Nowadays people use sophisticated TV right? But for us that one not important; can watch can already," said the 48-year-old, alluding to the fact that her TV and computer monitor are not the snazzy flat-screen type in fashion these days.

For Madam Anna, any money saved is money that will go a long way for her family of six - they have three boys aged 15, 10 and 8 and a daughter, 3.

Madam Anna, who studied up to Secondary 2, had previously held jobs earning about S$500 a month. But since their children came along, the family has been getting by on her 46-year-old husband's income - he works as a transport supervisor at a local tourist attraction - with the occasional extra from her selling home-made curry puffs to the provision shop downstairs.

His salary and bonuses were enough for the family to buy a S$45,000 Toyota Vios about four years ago and make annual trips to parts of Malaysia, such as Genting Highlands and Kuala Lumpur.

But life threw a spanner in the works when her fourth child and only daughter was born prematurely at 29 weeks. Suffering from chronic lung disease, her daughter spent most of her first year in hospital and had to undergo an operation. She is left with a hole on her stomach, which Madam Anna dresses at least twice a day.

These days, the monthly medical expenses for the four-year-old girl - who also has developmental delay - amount to around S$300 and she requires almost round-the-clock attention from Madam Anna, making it difficult for Mum to work and supplement the family income.

Though a huge expense, Madam Anna and her husband decided to keep the car in part because their daughter's condition meant that she fell ill easily and it was better for her not to travel via public transport.



STUCK IN A HARD PLACE

Families like Madam Anna fall into a sandwiched class of low-middle income Singaporeans, who are in the 11th to 20th percentile in terms of resident household income making an average of about S$2,681 a month.

This was a group the Acting Minister for Community Development, Youth and Sports Chan Chun Sing recently expressed concern about. While not the poorest of the poor, these families are vulnerable to volatile economic tides; yet they do not qualify for many social assistance schemes because they earn too much.

At the same time, the income of this group of Singaporeans has not risen much in the past decade. A recent paper by the Manpower Ministry and the Singapore Department of Statistics found that nominal income for Singaporeans at the 20th percentile had grown by 1.7 per cent per annum - from S$1,200 in 2001 to S$1,400 last year. After accounting for inflation, however, real income growth was "flat".

Madam Anna's husband currently earns about S$2,300, but effectively takes home about S$1,900 after contributing to his Central Provident Fund. This money is used to pay not only for her daughter's medical expenses, but also for the children's school expenses, food, utilities, telephone and Internet bill and the monthly car instalment (see table).

What little is left - if any - Madam Anna squirrels away in a rainy-day fund, but she admits that it is not easy and only has just over S$1,000 in savings.



MAKING EACH CENT COUNT

To make her husband's salary go further, Madam Anna and her family take trips twice a month to Johor Baru to stock up on groceries and clothes for her fast-growing daughter. "A dress there can cost RM10 to RM20 (S$4 to S$8), which is much cheaper than in Singapore," the housewife said.

But, as for herself and her husband, their own appearance is "not important", she lets on, gesturing eloquently at her attire: A faded green Hang Ten Polo T-shirt that is at least 10 years old, as are most other items in her and her husband's wardrobe. Madam Anna said she could not remember the last time she bought something for herself, and she hardly wears make up now.

When she does her weekly marketing, she goes for the inexpensive stuff, like the smaller fish and vegetables such as cabbage and kang kong. She qualified: "Of course I want the good things, but they have to be cheap."

She admits, though, that she does give in to the occasional craving for McDonald's or KFC because her children love french fries. But that happens only every two months or so, and they try to go for the special promotions because "they are more value for money", she said.

Home is where she and her kids spend most of their time, when they are not at school. "People like to go window shopping, but frankly, I don't like to go to shopping centres because once you set foot in the door, it means you start spending money," said Madam Anna matter-of-factly.



PREFERENCE FOR SELF-RELIANCE

While not being able to qualify for most financial assistance schemes, Madam Anna has been receiving basic food rations such as rice and biscuits from Fei Yue Family Service Centre on an ad-hoc basis over the past few months.

She was referred to them through self-help group Mendaki, where her eldest son is attending tuition classes. Madam Anna's two younger sons, who are in Primary 4 and 2, have also been receiving S$55 each from a pocket money assistance scheme for the past two years. The youngest was awarded a bursary last year.

Preferring to be self-reliant, Madam Anna said she does not go out of her way to find out what assistance schemes are available for her family. The help afforded so far, therefore, has been incidental - but she is nonetheless grateful. "I always tell myself, there is someone out there worse off than me," she said.

She also does not want to trouble her relatives with her financial burdens because "they have their own problems".

What about having her husband change jobs in hopes of higher pay? She said she had discouraged him from doing so. When he started out 30 years ago with the company, he was only making about S$400 a month. "For someone with Primary 6 education, it's not easy for him to earn the salary he is earning now," Madam Anna said.

She looks forward to the day she can return to work as well. She was very keen to sign up for a customer service course that Mendaki had told her about recently, but was unable to attend because it meant too much time away from her daughter.

Seeing her daughter get better is her main priority now, as well as ensuring her other children obtain a good education. She shared how her eldest son bucked up in his studies after being relegated to the Normal Stream in Secondary 3 - so for that reason, she says, it was "good for him to fail".

Recently, he mooted the idea of taking up a part-time job. But Madam Anna is not keen, even if it would mean lessening the family's financial burden. "I want them to go as high as they can ... I want them to grow up and be good people."



MADAM ANNA'S FAMILY'S MONTHLY EXPENSES

Husband's take-home pay: S$1,900



Total expenses (approx): S$2,049

- Food and daily needs: S$200

- Electricity, water, gas: S$200

- Daughter's medical bill: S$300

- Mobile and home phone, Internet: S$200

- Car instalment: S$500

- Petrol and parking: S$200

- Town Council conservancy fees: S$45

- Pocket money for eldest son: S$200

- Madrasah classes for three sons: S$74

- Husband's expenses: S$100

- Daughter's Early Intervention Programme for Children & Infants fees: S$30

* The two younger boys get $110 in pocket money assistance. The family also gets ad hoc rations from Fei Yue Family Service

teddybear
14-11-11, 13:34
For one family, paying off debt compels drastic measures
by Carolyn Quek and Yu Pei Fern
The possibility of divorce had never been raised - until 17 months ago when the family found itself without a roof over their heads.

"It sounds horrible to put it this way," Mr Tang (not his real name) sighed uncomfortably, speaking in rapid Mandarin. "But with my current income, we don't qualify for a rental flat. If we divorce, then my wife can get one, and then they (wife and two daughters) can at least get their own home."

He added: "I told her, 'it's just a piece of paper. It shouldn't matter how other people see you ... You only need to remember the way I see you, and love you.' "

For the 49-year-old primary school leaver and his family, the complex chain of events - spurred by a combination of bad personal decisions and economic vicissitudes - began about four years ago.

As a supervisor in chemical piping works, he was earning a basic wage of about S$2,000 a month. But with the economy going strong, and the company awarded big projects, he could in lucky months make as much as S$5,000 including overtime pay.

The family had also bought and sold two HDB flats over the years, and were living in their third, a four-room flat. Then Mr Tang began racking up credit card debts - some S$21,000 over the course of a year.

He turned to gambling in the hopes of making up the money, and instead, lost more than S$70,000.

He declined to give details, but said he went for credit counselling afterwards. With the economy by then in the doldrums, his monthly earnings also shrank and stagnated.

They sold their flat to cover the debts, then tried to buy a smaller flat. But Mr Tang had not realised he could not get a bank loan, the minimum income required being S$2,500. Nor did they qualify for a HDB rental flat - the household income ceiling was S$1,500, and there was a 30-month debarment period besides.

So they ended up renting a room on the open market, at S$700 a month. Rules did not allow more than three tenants in the room, and Mr Tang had to sleep in the park, a memory that still brings tears of frustration and humiliation to recount.

For the past two months now, the family has been living in a transitional shelter provided by New Hope Community Services, sharing a three-room flat in Boon Lay with another family of three. New Hope provides them with some food rations.

One of the things Mr Tang did when they moved out was to throw away all their appliances and belongings.

"Those things are part of another life," he said fiercely. "This is what we are now, no use hanging on to the past."

They have brought along the bare necessities: Their clothes which hang in a small cupboard, two laptops for their daughters' education and their mobile phones (even though the phone subscription plans add up to S$200 a month, Mr Tang says he feels more secure with them). Should they need to use the Internet, their daughters either tap into unsecured wireless networks or go to a fast-food restaurant with hotspot access.

Breakfast is a simple affair: A slice of bread. For lunch, Mr Tang opts for the cheapest hawker centre fare, like two vegetable dishes or a S$2.50 plate of chicken rice. They buy only the cheapest brands of groceries at NTUC FairPrice.

Even then, their monthly expenses add up to over S$2,000, with a S$400 chunk going towards settling his credit card debt, of which he now owes S$19,000. And Mrs Tang, 48, needs medication for her high blood pressure, high cholesterol and diabetes. To help with this, she gets subsidies from the Community Development Council, and about S$500 a month from her part-time job as a cashier at FairPrice.

His eldest daughter, 18, studies accounting at the ITE, while the other is taking her O Levels. The latter's good grades have won her bursaries in the past and, though it is a luxury, she continues with the Japanese lessons she has been taking since Secondary 1. Mr Tang insists she pursue her interests, and that the pair should focus on their education rather than work part-time like many teens do.

"You think I wouldn't send them for further education if I could?" he rasped. "But living, having food to eat, all these things are more important. They want to study, and I want to let them, but how will I do that?"

Conscious of his mistakes in the past, he said: "I've been walking the straight and narrow. All I need is a chance, to give my family what they need, and that's all that matters."



THE TANG FAMILY'S EXPENSES

Total take-home pay: S$1,700 (Mr Tang) + S$500 (Mrs Tang)



Total expenses: Up to S$2,650

- Groceries and household expenses: Up to S$800

- Mr Tang's expenditure eg meals, transport: Up to S$500

- Debt servicing: S$400

- Pocket money for daughters: S$500

- Mobile phone plans: S$200

- Japanese lessons for younger daughter: S$100

- Shelter fee: S$100

- Wife's medical bills: S$50



URL http://www.todayonline.com/Sunday/SundaySpecial/EDC111113-0000009/A-family-of-six,-living-on-S$1,900-a-month
Copyright 2011 MediaCorp Pte Ltd | All Rights Reserved

teddybear
14-11-11, 13:39
Wah! This family has $1900 pm can afford a car! If no car already can live comfortably! Also, so much help from Medaki, etc! These organization should ask them to sell away car first before helping them because car is a luxury! A poor family says a car is a necessity? :doh:

Total expenses (approx): S$2,049

- Food and daily needs: S$200

- Electricity, water, gas: S$200

- Daughter's medical bill: S$300

- Mobile and home phone, Internet: S$200 (Need so much mah?)

- Car instalment: S$500 (Can save all $500!)

- Petrol and parking: S$200 (Can save 2/3 if take public transport lah!)

- Town Council conservancy fees: S$45

- Pocket money for eldest son: S$200 (What a spendthrift for a young boy of 15 years old!)

- Madrasah classes for three sons: S$74

- Husband's expenses: S$100

- Daughter's Early Intervention Programme for Children & Infants fees: S$30

* The two younger boys get $110 in pocket money assistance. The family also gets ad hoc rations from Fei Yue Family Service[/QUOTE]



A family of six, living on S$1,900 a month
How do those in the 'sandwiched class', who don't qualify for many assistance schemes, get by?

Updated 01:24 PM Nov 13, 2011
by Carolyn Quek and Yu Pei Fern [email protected]
The first thing you notice when you enter Madam Anna's (not her real name) flat is that the handles of the metal grille gate have broken off, with two wooden blocks crudely fastened in their place.

Her boys had been kicking a football around and damaged the gate, and to save money, the housewife and her husband decided to repair it themselves with pieces of wood someone had discarded at the void deck of their block in Choa Chu Kang.

The "curtain" that is draped across the living room windows is in fact a piece of colourful cotton fabric pegged to the window grille. The same fabric is also used as a throw for the sofa. Instead of chairs, the family sits on wooden benches and stools.

A large Panasonic TV and a personal desktop computer take pride of place in the living room of the flat which the family has called home for the past 10 years. Madam Anna explains that these items were given to them by her youngest brother's friend who was moving house and did not want them anymore. "Nowadays people use sophisticated TV right? But for us that one not important; can watch can already," said the 48-year-old, alluding to the fact that her TV and computer monitor are not the snazzy flat-screen type in fashion these days.

For Madam Anna, any money saved is money that will go a long way for her family of six - they have three boys aged 15, 10 and 8 and a daughter, 3.

Madam Anna, who studied up to Secondary 2, had previously held jobs earning about S$500 a month. But since their children came along, the family has been getting by on her 46-year-old husband's income - he works as a transport supervisor at a local tourist attraction - with the occasional extra from her selling home-made curry puffs to the provision shop downstairs.

His salary and bonuses were enough for the family to buy a S$45,000 Toyota Vios about four years ago and make annual trips to parts of Malaysia, such as Genting Highlands and Kuala Lumpur.

But life threw a spanner in the works when her fourth child and only daughter was born prematurely at 29 weeks. Suffering from chronic lung disease, her daughter spent most of her first year in hospital and had to undergo an operation. She is left with a hole on her stomach, which Madam Anna dresses at least twice a day.

These days, the monthly medical expenses for the four-year-old girl - who also has developmental delay - amount to around S$300 and she requires almost round-the-clock attention from Madam Anna, making it difficult for Mum to work and supplement the family income.

Though a huge expense, Madam Anna and her husband decided to keep the car in part because their daughter's condition meant that she fell ill easily and it was better for her not to travel via public transport.



STUCK IN A HARD PLACE

Families like Madam Anna fall into a sandwiched class of low-middle income Singaporeans, who are in the 11th to 20th percentile in terms of resident household income making an average of about S$2,681 a month.

This was a group the Acting Minister for Community Development, Youth and Sports Chan Chun Sing recently expressed concern about. While not the poorest of the poor, these families are vulnerable to volatile economic tides; yet they do not qualify for many social assistance schemes because they earn too much.

At the same time, the income of this group of Singaporeans has not risen much in the past decade. A recent paper by the Manpower Ministry and the Singapore Department of Statistics found that nominal income for Singaporeans at the 20th percentile had grown by 1.7 per cent per annum - from S$1,200 in 2001 to S$1,400 last year. After accounting for inflation, however, real income growth was "flat".

Madam Anna's husband currently earns about S$2,300, but effectively takes home about S$1,900 after contributing to his Central Provident Fund. This money is used to pay not only for her daughter's medical expenses, but also for the children's school expenses, food, utilities, telephone and Internet bill and the monthly car instalment (see table).

What little is left - if any - Madam Anna squirrels away in a rainy-day fund, but she admits that it is not easy and only has just over S$1,000 in savings.



MAKING EACH CENT COUNT

To make her husband's salary go further, Madam Anna and her family take trips twice a month to Johor Baru to stock up on groceries and clothes for her fast-growing daughter. "A dress there can cost RM10 to RM20 (S$4 to S$8), which is much cheaper than in Singapore," the housewife said.

But, as for herself and her husband, their own appearance is "not important", she lets on, gesturing eloquently at her attire: A faded green Hang Ten Polo T-shirt that is at least 10 years old, as are most other items in her and her husband's wardrobe. Madam Anna said she could not remember the last time she bought something for herself, and she hardly wears make up now.

When she does her weekly marketing, she goes for the inexpensive stuff, like the smaller fish and vegetables such as cabbage and kang kong. She qualified: "Of course I want the good things, but they have to be cheap."

She admits, though, that she does give in to the occasional craving for McDonald's or KFC because her children love french fries. But that happens only every two months or so, and they try to go for the special promotions because "they are more value for money", she said.

Home is where she and her kids spend most of their time, when they are not at school. "People like to go window shopping, but frankly, I don't like to go to shopping centres because once you set foot in the door, it means you start spending money," said Madam Anna matter-of-factly.



PREFERENCE FOR SELF-RELIANCE

While not being able to qualify for most financial assistance schemes, Madam Anna has been receiving basic food rations such as rice and biscuits from Fei Yue Family Service Centre on an ad-hoc basis over the past few months.

She was referred to them through self-help group Mendaki, where her eldest son is attending tuition classes. Madam Anna's two younger sons, who are in Primary 4 and 2, have also been receiving S$55 each from a pocket money assistance scheme for the past two years. The youngest was awarded a bursary last year.

Preferring to be self-reliant, Madam Anna said she does not go out of her way to find out what assistance schemes are available for her family. The help afforded so far, therefore, has been incidental - but she is nonetheless grateful. "I always tell myself, there is someone out there worse off than me," she said.

She also does not want to trouble her relatives with her financial burdens because "they have their own problems".

What about having her husband change jobs in hopes of higher pay? She said she had discouraged him from doing so. When he started out 30 years ago with the company, he was only making about S$400 a month. "For someone with Primary 6 education, it's not easy for him to earn the salary he is earning now," Madam Anna said.

She looks forward to the day she can return to work as well. She was very keen to sign up for a customer service course that Mendaki had told her about recently, but was unable to attend because it meant too much time away from her daughter.

Seeing her daughter get better is her main priority now, as well as ensuring her other children obtain a good education. She shared how her eldest son bucked up in his studies after being relegated to the Normal Stream in Secondary 3 - so for that reason, she says, it was "good for him to fail".

Recently, he mooted the idea of taking up a part-time job. But Madam Anna is not keen, even if it would mean lessening the family's financial burden. "I want them to go as high as they can ... I want them to grow up and be good people."



MADAM ANNA'S FAMILY'S MONTHLY EXPENSES

Husband's take-home pay: S$1,900



Total expenses (approx): S$2,049

- Food and daily needs: S$200

- Electricity, water, gas: S$200

- Daughter's medical bill: S$300

- Mobile and home phone, Internet: S$200

- Car instalment: S$500

- Petrol and parking: S$200

- Town Council conservancy fees: S$45

- Pocket money for eldest son: S$200

- Madrasah classes for three sons: S$74

- Husband's expenses: S$100

- Daughter's Early Intervention Programme for Children & Infants fees: S$30

* The two younger boys get $110 in pocket money assistance. The family also gets ad hoc rations from Fei Yue Family Service

teddybear
14-11-11, 13:44
Again, I found all these people's expenses to be either exaggerated or they are living in a life of more luxury than they can afford! Do they really need to spend so much and then complain they don't have enough money? :doh:

THE TANG FAMILY'S EXPENSES

Total take-home pay: S$1,700 (Mr Tang) + S$500 (Mrs Tang)

Total expenses: Up to S$2,650

- Groceries and household expenses: Up to S$800(Wah, what a luxury to spend $800 on groceries! They must have salmon, cod fish, treadfin etc expensive fish & things in here!)

- Mr Tang's expenditure eg meals, transport: Up to S$500 (taking taxi very often? Bus may be $80, lunch may be $120 only!)

- Debt servicing: S$400

- Pocket money for daughters: S$500 (again, 2 young daughters need $250 each of pocket money pm? :doh: )

- Mobile phone plans: S$200 (again, luxury!)

- Japanese lessons for younger daughter: S$100

- Shelter fee: S$100

- Wife's medical bills: S$50




For one family, paying off debt compels drastic measures
by Carolyn Quek and Yu Pei Fern
The possibility of divorce had never been raised - until 17 months ago when the family found itself without a roof over their heads.

"It sounds horrible to put it this way," Mr Tang (not his real name) sighed uncomfortably, speaking in rapid Mandarin. "But with my current income, we don't qualify for a rental flat. If we divorce, then my wife can get one, and then they (wife and two daughters) can at least get their own home."

He added: "I told her, 'it's just a piece of paper. It shouldn't matter how other people see you ... You only need to remember the way I see you, and love you.' "

For the 49-year-old primary school leaver and his family, the complex chain of events - spurred by a combination of bad personal decisions and economic vicissitudes - began about four years ago.

As a supervisor in chemical piping works, he was earning a basic wage of about S$2,000 a month. But with the economy going strong, and the company awarded big projects, he could in lucky months make as much as S$5,000 including overtime pay.

The family had also bought and sold two HDB flats over the years, and were living in their third, a four-room flat. Then Mr Tang began racking up credit card debts - some S$21,000 over the course of a year.

He turned to gambling in the hopes of making up the money, and instead, lost more than S$70,000.

He declined to give details, but said he went for credit counselling afterwards. With the economy by then in the doldrums, his monthly earnings also shrank and stagnated.

They sold their flat to cover the debts, then tried to buy a smaller flat. But Mr Tang had not realised he could not get a bank loan, the minimum income required being S$2,500. Nor did they qualify for a HDB rental flat - the household income ceiling was S$1,500, and there was a 30-month debarment period besides.

So they ended up renting a room on the open market, at S$700 a month. Rules did not allow more than three tenants in the room, and Mr Tang had to sleep in the park, a memory that still brings tears of frustration and humiliation to recount.

For the past two months now, the family has been living in a transitional shelter provided by New Hope Community Services, sharing a three-room flat in Boon Lay with another family of three. New Hope provides them with some food rations.

One of the things Mr Tang did when they moved out was to throw away all their appliances and belongings.

"Those things are part of another life," he said fiercely. "This is what we are now, no use hanging on to the past."

They have brought along the bare necessities: Their clothes which hang in a small cupboard, two laptops for their daughters' education and their mobile phones (even though the phone subscription plans add up to S$200 a month, Mr Tang says he feels more secure with them). Should they need to use the Internet, their daughters either tap into unsecured wireless networks or go to a fast-food restaurant with hotspot access.

Breakfast is a simple affair: A slice of bread. For lunch, Mr Tang opts for the cheapest hawker centre fare, like two vegetable dishes or a S$2.50 plate of chicken rice. They buy only the cheapest brands of groceries at NTUC FairPrice.

Even then, their monthly expenses add up to over S$2,000, with a S$400 chunk going towards settling his credit card debt, of which he now owes S$19,000. And Mrs Tang, 48, needs medication for her high blood pressure, high cholesterol and diabetes. To help with this, she gets subsidies from the Community Development Council, and about S$500 a month from her part-time job as a cashier at FairPrice.

His eldest daughter, 18, studies accounting at the ITE, while the other is taking her O Levels. The latter's good grades have won her bursaries in the past and, though it is a luxury, she continues with the Japanese lessons she has been taking since Secondary 1. Mr Tang insists she pursue her interests, and that the pair should focus on their education rather than work part-time like many teens do.

"You think I wouldn't send them for further education if I could?" he rasped. "But living, having food to eat, all these things are more important. They want to study, and I want to let them, but how will I do that?"

Conscious of his mistakes in the past, he said: "I've been walking the straight and narrow. All I need is a chance, to give my family what they need, and that's all that matters."



THE TANG FAMILY'S EXPENSES

Total take-home pay: S$1,700 (Mr Tang) + S$500 (Mrs Tang)



Total expenses: Up to S$2,650

- Groceries and household expenses: Up to S$800

- Mr Tang's expenditure eg meals, transport: Up to S$500

- Debt servicing: S$400

- Pocket money for daughters: S$500

- Mobile phone plans: S$200

- Japanese lessons for younger daughter: S$100

- Shelter fee: S$100

- Wife's medical bills: S$50



URL http://www.todayonline.com/Sunday/SundaySpecial/EDC111113-0000009/A-family-of-six,-living-on-S$1,900-a-month
Copyright 2011 MediaCorp Pte Ltd | All Rights Reserved

teddybear
14-11-11, 14:10
This thread is actually should be:
How to own a property and retire at 55 years old! :p

The method only suitable for those earning at least $2.5k pm income assuming a family of 4. Below $2.5k pm, I am afraid the above is not achievable as they can't even save much let alone own a property! :(

Rule Number 1:
- Never ever buy a car!

Rule Number 2:
- Spend <50% of what you earned! (this rule damned difficult to achieve! I also can't achieve it (although I achieve close to that). It is natural to spend more when we earn more but try lah! :p )

gn108
14-11-11, 15:07
I know of one family where -
Children don't like vacations - prefer playing at home. Intelligent and don't require any tuition. Not the demanding type.
Wifey - actually likes working. Less time to go shopping.
Husband - don't smoke, gambles moderately, drinks socially.
So can save >50% eventhough has a car.

Laguna
14-11-11, 15:09
U can hv more children only if u can afford it....
both in term of $ and time....
else, all suffer together

gn108
14-11-11, 15:15
Discipline and temperament important.
Spend < Earn.
Don't be so jealous of other people.
Try to invest prudently.

But many don't have the right values/traits - even professionals like lawyers/doctors can get into financial issues from over-spending.

devilplate
14-11-11, 15:30
Once married, tend to take lesser risks....

Once got kids, dare not take risks anymore....

teddybear
14-11-11, 15:39
Once got kids, dare not take risks anymore...
Very dangerous! That means the person can also destined to work for life! Cannot retire until they drop dead! Worse still, want to work also nobody want to employ them! People should just aim to retire at 55 years old! :p


Once married, tend to take lesser risks....

Once got kids, dare not take risks anymore....

gn108
14-11-11, 15:49
I agree totally.
People's minds are shaped by false awareness.
Work till 72, banks extend 40 yr mortgages, etc.

Good to have credit options but must think for yourself...do you want to be hostage to an employer till past 50, do you want to have a mortgage over your head till your 70's?



Once got kids, dare not take risks anymore...
Very dangerous! That means the person can also destined to work for life! Cannot retire until they drop dead! Worse still, want to work also nobody want to employ them! People should just aim to retire at 55 years old! :p

Laguna
14-11-11, 15:55
Once married, tend to take lesser risks....

Once got kids, dare not take risks anymore....

LOL. it doesn't sound like u....:confused:

phantom_opera
14-11-11, 16:40
Once got kids, dare not take risks anymore...
Very dangerous! That means the person can also destined to work for life! Cannot retire until they drop dead! Worse still, want to work also nobody want to employ them! People should just aim to retire at 55 years old! :p

Dare not take risk anymore = very high risk if with 3 children ... next time 3 children will be paying 1 million dollar HDB and come back asking for $$$ to do downpayment

And we are in high inflationary period, putting cash in bank is sure way of losing money, SG government should really list TIPS (inflation protected securities), such securities can invest in REITs and corporate bonds to hedge against inflation

We have TIPS ETF for USD, one example is from Barclays:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=TIP&ql=1

devilplate
14-11-11, 16:42
Dare not take risk anymore = very high risk if with 3 children ... next time 3 children will be paying 1 million dollar HDB and come back asking for $$$ to do downpayment

And we are in high inflationary period, putting cash in bank is sure way of losing money
u got it!!!

mcmlxxvi
14-11-11, 18:55
Once got kids, dare not take risks anymore...
Very dangerous! That means the person can also destined to work for life! Cannot retire until they drop dead! Worse still, want to work also nobody want to employ them! People should just aim to retire at 55 years old! :p

I am aim full retirement at 40 leh... Now semi...

mcmlxxvi
14-11-11, 18:58
I agree totally.
People's minds are shaped by false awareness.
Work till 72, banks extend 40 yr mortgages, etc.

Good to have credit options but must think for yourself...do you want to be hostage to an employer till past 50, do you want to have a mortgage over your head till your 70's?

By the time i 60 if still around i would have sold off all pvt and bought one nice old folks studio hdb to live/die in... Enjoyed 30 years of pvt living can liao la... Almost half the lifetime... Hdb for old folks better... More neighbourliness and support network nearby.

buttercarp
14-11-11, 19:05
I know of one family where -
Children don't like vacations - prefer playing at home. Intelligent and don't require any tuition. Not the demanding type.
Wifey - actually likes working. Less time to go shopping.
Husband - don't smoke, gambles moderately, drinks socially.
So can save >50% eventhough has a car.

Hey, sounds a bit like my family.
My kids dislike vacations, in fact they dread them.
However they require tuition. As long as they have the latest computer gadgets, they are satisified.
I also don't shop very much, only when i need something then i go shopping.
I also don't like to travel as I do not have the luxury of a maid when I travel.
My hubby doesn't smoke, drink nor gamble.
He just lurves his xbox and computer.
We hardly eat out and we don't wear designer clothes nor carry designer bags.
In summary, we are a cyber family.
We live in a virtual world during our free time.
It is not only economical but we get to enjoy the comfort of home.

hopeful
14-11-11, 19:08
.....
In summary, we are a cyber family.
We live in a virtual world during our free time.
......

dont tell me even when all family members at home, or even side by side,you all communicate using instant messengers / BBM?

mcmlxxvi
14-11-11, 19:10
dont tell me even when all family members at home, or even side by side,you all communicate using instant messengers / BBM?

LOL!!!!!!!!!!

buttercarp
14-11-11, 19:13
dont tell me even when all family members at home, or even side by side,you all communicate using instant messengers / BBM?

LOL:p .

You are quite right.
If I call out to my kids and hubby and they can't hear me, i use WhatsApp, IM to communicate with them.
If side by side then, no.... unless i need to ask them a private question.

teddybear
14-11-11, 19:13
Good for you! However, don't retire so early lah otherwise will become a "stone" by the time you are 70+ years old from inactivity..... :eek:


I am aim full retirement at 40 leh... Now semi...

mcmlxxvi
14-11-11, 19:19
Good for you! However, don't retire so early lah otherwise will become a "stone" by the time you are 70+ years old from inactivity..... :eek:

Fully agree! I try to keep mind active here and go swim/gym 2-3 times a week and keep abreast of the industry I was in...

Also considering volunteer work... Am not an ambitious corporate ladder climber by nature. Need to see purpose in what i do...

buttercarp
14-11-11, 19:23
Fully agree! I try to keep mind active here and go swim/gym 2-3 times a week and keep abreast of the industry I was in...

Retirement is no joke.
It is bad for the mind.
An idle mind is the devil's workshop.
Perhaps you can work for leisure or charity.:)

radha08
14-11-11, 20:51
An idle mind is the devil's workshop.
:)

hmm devil is a sensitive word...:D:D:D

buttercarp
14-11-11, 21:17
hmm devil is a sensitive word...:D:D:D

Sorry i know, but it is a known English proverb.
It is found in the Handbook of Proverbs by H.G. Bohn, a British.

Perhaps a better way of saying would be "idleness is the root of all evil".

teddybear
14-11-11, 21:24
When I say "retire at 55 years old", please don't really retire and do nothing! Don't blame me if you become a "stone"! :scared-1:
I mean you have no need for your job, and can afford to take life easy, have a leisurely life style, and have some time to go out there to do some charity or voluntary work! Help the real needy (not those who complain and complain because they over-spent or want the luxuries that others have! :p)
Just like those who complain & complain that properties too expensive now, but once they had bought they would complain why their properties' prices never go up after LKY said "Never sell your HDB properties" (interpreted to mean property prices will go up in long term)! :doh:

There are also those "water ghosts" wanting to scaring you into selling chip chip to them and once they bought they will say "properties sure rise 50% in next 3 years...blah blah blah"! :banghead:


This thread is actually should be:
How to own a property and retire at 55 years old! :p

The method only suitable for those earning at least $2.5k pm income assuming a family of 4. Below $2.5k pm, I am afraid the above is not achievable as they can't even save much let alone own a property! :(

Rule Number 1:
- Never ever buy a car!

Rule Number 2:
- Spend <50% of what you earned! (this rule damned difficult to achieve! I also can't achieve it (although I achieve close to that). It is natural to spend more when we earn more but try lah! :p )

ysyap
15-11-11, 05:21
All sorts of people around with hidden agendas. Well I don't dare to think about retirement at 40 but definitely semi-retirement or something so can enjoy life instead of being slave to your lifestyle by working and working to earn sufficiently to feed your wants and desires... :D Semi retirement would also allow one to engage in more meaning activities in life... ;)

Laguna
15-11-11, 09:38
My father in law, 94 this year, still working, and been working for almost 80 years.

Me, retired at 54

My girl, now 26, wants to retire at 30

LOL

devilplate
15-11-11, 09:57
My father in law, 94 this year, still working, and been working for almost 80 years.

Me, retired at 54

My girl, now 26, wants to retire at 30

LOL

either live off from her rich dad or husband...LOL

ur FIL still so strong ar?:cool: i prolly cant walk anymore at 90!

hopeful
15-11-11, 09:57
My father in law, 94 this year, still working, and been working for almost 80 years.

Me, retired at 54

My girl, now 26, wants to retire at 30

LOL

very easy explanation
Your father-in-law's father is poor, hence he is still working at 94
Your father is rich, hence you can retire at 54
Your girl's father is even richer, hence she wants to retire at 30. :)

ysyap
15-11-11, 15:43
My father in law, 94 this year, still working, and been working for almost 80 years.

Me, retired at 54

My girl, now 26, wants to retire at 30

LOLI don't even think I can live till 90. Well, retirement at 54 is relatively good! Your daughter's mentality might have been rubbed off from her father and magnified many times...LOL! :spliff:

evergreen
15-11-11, 20:30
I totally agree with teddybear's analysis in red.
Many people are just poor at managing luxury vs need.

howgozit
16-11-11, 21:40
Hey, sounds a bit like my family.
My kids dislike vacations, in fact they dread them.
However they require tuition. As long as they have the latest computer gadgets, they are satisified.
I also don't shop very much, only when i need something then i go shopping.
I also don't like to travel as I do not have the luxury of a maid when I travel.
My hubby doesn't smoke, drink nor gamble.
He just lurves his xbox and computer.
We hardly eat out and we don't wear designer clothes nor carry designer bags.
In summary, we are a cyber family.
We live in a virtual world during our free time.
It is not only economical but we get to enjoy the comfort of home.

OMG... I can't believe this.. what a life!
Not wanting to go on holidays bcoz no maid? ...:confused:

If you feel that way, your children surely would too. No wonder people say Singaporeans are growing soft.

gn108
17-11-11, 09:50
Wow - so your family can also save 40-50% of your income?
That's remarkable considering a further 35% savings rate via CPF.
Enviable


Hey, sounds a bit like my family.
My kids dislike vacations, in fact they dread them.
However they require tuition. As long as they have the latest computer gadgets, they are satisified.
I also don't shop very much, only when i need something then i go shopping.
I also don't like to travel as I do not have the luxury of a maid when I travel.
My hubby doesn't smoke, drink nor gamble.
He just lurves his xbox and computer.
We hardly eat out and we don't wear designer clothes nor carry designer bags.
In summary, we are a cyber family.
We live in a virtual world during our free time.
It is not only economical but we get to enjoy the comfort of home.

sh
17-11-11, 10:05
My father in law, 94 this year, still working, and been working for almost 80 years.

Me, retired at 54

My girl, now 26, wants to retire at 30

LOL

Actually your father in law is a self-made towkay.... that's why still working at 94.... cannot let go... (nobody will hire him at 94 other than himself) right?

That's why you can retire at 54....

Your girl..... actually don't need to work....

My guess....:D

stl67
22-11-11, 08:54
My father in law, 94 this year, still working, and been working for almost 80 years.

Me, retired at 54

My girl, now 26, wants to retire at 30

LOL

i envy you.. retired at 54.. woking toward it. another < 10 yrs more.

Laguna
22-11-11, 11:09
i envy you.. retired at 54.. woking toward it. another < 10 yrs more.

if I need $1m to retire, by your time should be $1.4m

teddybear
22-11-11, 11:36
The method to keep "missing" the chance to sell a property so that your property got chance to appreciate is as follow, e.g. 5rm HDB flat new prices (obviously resale will be much more!):
1983 - $25k
1990 - $90k
1997 - $300k
2011 - $500k !!!

Now, after your kids have grown up, sell your 5rm flat to buy a 3rm or even 2 rm flat and you can now fully own roof over your head + extra cash to retire! :D

Don't ever wait! Wait become like basic! Spend so much time copy and paste all those "news" (actual not NEW anymore, should be called "OLDs" as they have already been priced into stock prices) also useless! You get rich through actions, not talking! :tongue3:

Laguna
22-11-11, 12:20
In fact, I find the idea of selling HDB and stay at IDR is good

teddybear
22-11-11, 12:22
What is IDR?


In fact, I find the idea of selling HDB and stay at IDR is good

devilplate
22-11-11, 14:14
The method to keep "missing" the chance to sell a property so that your property got chance to appreciate is as follow, e.g. 5rm HDB flat new prices (obviously resale will be much more!):
1983 - $25k
1990 - $90k
1997 - $300k
2011 - $500k !!!

Now, after your kids have grown up, sell your 5rm flat to buy a 3rm or even 2 rm flat and you can now fully own roof over your head + extra cash to retire! :D

Don't ever wait! Wait become like basic! Spend so much time copy and paste all those "news" (actual not NEW anymore, should be called "OLDs" as they have already been priced into stock prices) also useless! You get rich through actions, not talking! :tongue3:

The gap is getting narrower and may reach a tipping point whereby future peak may not be higher den previous peak.....

It cud prolly happen in our next gen

teddybear
22-11-11, 14:29
Gap getting narrower? Not really lah, just the %age increase getting smaller, but absolute quantum is still as big, if not bigger! :D
Should be seeing $1m 5rm HDB flat in 2021? :eek:
DBSS already >$700k in Tampines! Ops! :beats-me-man:


The gap is getting narrower and may reach a tipping point whereby future peak may not be higher den previous peak.....

It cud prolly happen in our next gen

Laguna
22-11-11, 18:23
What is IDR?

Iskandar...

radha08
24-11-11, 07:01
Once married, tend to take lesser risks....

Once got kids, dare not take risks anymore....

ya once got kids dont take risk must use parachute otherwise got more kids...:D:D:D:D

buttercarp
24-11-11, 08:55
OMG... I can't believe this.. what a life!
Not wanting to go on holidays bcoz no maid? ...:confused:

If you feel that way, your children surely would too. No wonder people say Singaporeans are growing soft.

LOL.... didn't see your post earlier.
If I go on holidays, I become the maid, especially those DIY ones where you stay in a service apartment.
Does not make sense to pay for a holiday and become the maid myself, while the maid stays at home and have a holiday.
To me, a holiday is being able to wake up and sleep at any time I want and having all my meals taken care of and enjoy the peace and tranquility in the house and the condo facilities , and coming to this forum.;)

Having a holiday does not mean one has to go abroad.
If it is free, then I might consider.
If I have to pay for it, it better be good.
So far I have not really enjoyed my holidays, except for last year's trip to Hokkaido- self drive trip organized by Prime tour agency. That was money well spent. The rooms and food were really first class.




Wow - so your family can also save 40-50% of your income?
That's remarkable considering a further 35% savings rate via CPF.
Enviable

I guess so..... but my lifestyle is quite different from the average Singaporean. Someone commented I have lots of self discipline in terms of spending, but I do not consider it a matter of discipline but just no urge to spend on branded items.

gn108
24-11-11, 09:05
I am impressed liao.
I congratulate you/your family actually - very similar to my friend's.
Just happy and contented eventhough they earn quite alot.
Not everyone will understand though ....instant gratification is very evident these days.

As for hols, I hate them. I always end up the bag man/driver/runner.
Out of maybe 10, I only enjoy 2-3. I would need leave after the vacation!
Now we do stay-cation - kids are happier too.



LOL.... didn't see your post earlier.
If I go on holidays, I become the maid, especially those DIY ones where you stay in a service apartment.
Does not make sense to pay for a holiday and become the maid myself, while the maid stays at home and have a holiday.
To me, a holiday is being able to wake up and sleep at any time I want and having all my meals taken care of and enjoy the peace and tranquility in the house and the condo facilities , and coming to this forum.;)

Having a holiday does not mean one has to go abroad.
If it is free, then I might consider.
If I have to pay for it, it better be good.
So far I have not really enjoyed my holidays, except for last year's trip to Hokkaido- self drive trip organized by Prime tour agency. That was money well spent. The rooms and food were really first class.





I guess so..... but my lifestyle is quite different from the average Singaporean. Someone commented I have lots of self discipline in terms of spending, but I do not consider it a matter of discipline but just no urge to spend on branded items.

devilplate
24-11-11, 09:08
I am impressed liao.
I congratulate you/your family actually - very similar to my friend's.
Just happy and contented eventhough they earn quite alot.
Not everyone will understand though ....instant gratification is very evident these days.

As for hols, I hate them. I always end up the bag man/driver/runner.
Out of maybe 10, I only enjoy 2-3. I would need leave after the vacation!
Now we do stay-cation - kids are happier too.
u mean ur family went for hols, all of them dun enjoy it?

buttercarp
24-11-11, 09:12
I am impressed liao.
I congratulate you/your family actually - very similar to my friend's.
Just happy and contented eventhough they earn quite alot.
Not everyone will understand though ....instant gratification is very evident these days.

As for hols, I hate them. I always end up the bag man/driver/runner.
Out of maybe 10, I only enjoy 2-3. I would need leave after the vacation!
Now we do stay-cation - kids are happier too.

LOL.... that's my lifestyle, not an achievement at all, but thanks!:)
What you say is so true!:cheers4:
When I come back from a vacation, I also have to have another holiday to recover from the trip.

buttercarp
24-11-11, 09:15
u mean ur family went for hols, all of them dun enjoy it?

I can understand gn108.
Most of my holidays were not enjoyable, especially the package tours.
The worse one I have been was to Korea. They want you to buy their things, the food was so low class and lousy. The hotels were sub- standard.

devilplate
24-11-11, 09:23
I can understand gn108.
Most of my holidays were not enjoyable, especially the package tours.
The worse one I have been was to Korea. They want you to buy their things, the food was so low class and lousy. The hotels were sub- standard.
go on free and easy :)

important thing is whether ur family enjoys it anot :)

gn108
24-11-11, 09:28
For mine, I think must have clear agenda, coz all got divergent expectations of the holiday. Whether it's sight-seeing, food experiences, or shopping. Family Dysfunctionality is another description.

devilplate
24-11-11, 09:31
for me very simple....family members enjoy it...i love it :)

ecimbew
24-11-11, 09:44
Gap getting narrower? Not really lah, just the %age increase getting smaller, but absolute quantum is still as big, if not bigger! :D
Should be seeing $1m 5rm HDB flat in 2021? :eek:
DBSS already >$700k in Tampines! Ops! :beats-me-man:

EC is not bad too.


Executive Condo Launch: Blossom Residences Price




We share prices of an executive condominium (EC)* in Singapore - Blossom Residences this 2011.

These are transacted prices obtained from URA Singapore.

Latest Blossom Residences Prices:

Project | Address| Type | Price | Floor Area sqft | Type of Condo | Price Per Square Feet | Transaction Date

BLOSSOM RESIDENCES PRICE SEGAR ROAD Executive Condominium 1 1,017,000 1,884 Strata 540 September 2011

BLOSSOM RESIDENCES PRICE SEGAR ROAD Executive Condominium 1 729,000 1,055 Strata 691 September 2011

BLOSSOM RESIDENCES PRICE SEGAR ROAD Executive Condominium 1 707,000 969 Strata 730 September 2011

BLOSSOM RESIDENCES PRICE SEGAR ROAD Executive Condominium 1 737,000 1,055 Strata 699 September 2011

BLOSSOM RESIDENCES PRICE SEGAR ROAD Executive Condominium 1 829,000 1,389 Strata 597 September 2011

BLOSSOM RESIDENCES PRICE SEGAR ROAD Executive Condominium 1 749,000 1,087 Strata 689 September 2011


Executive Condo Singapore
http://executivecondosingapore.blogspot.com/

buttercarp
24-11-11, 09:57
for me very simple....family members enjoy it...i love it :)
I agree with you totally!
Although I do not like joy rides, unlike my hubby and kids.
I enjoy watching them enjoy themselves.

Laguna
24-11-11, 10:18
My family like the self driving holiday, F&E, do whatever we like
so far, we have one month in Australia, NZ, US, and F&E in Japan, Taiwan and quite a number of places....
and we are gg to hv a self driving holiday to Malaysia next month, when my both children are back to Sg....

In fact, I prefer to stay at home, enjoying my retirement life, simple food, rather than shopping and holidaying....

devilplate
24-11-11, 10:26
My family like the self driving holiday, F&E, do whatever we like
so far, we have one month in Australia, NZ, US, and F&E in Japan, Taiwan and quite a number of places....
and we are gg to hv a self driving holiday to Malaysia next month, when my both children are back to Sg........

yes F&E bestest but countries like Japan, Korea quite tough.....
wah, ur family can afford 1mth holiday!!! so long!



In fact, I prefer to stay at home, enjoying my retirement life, simple food, rather than shopping and holidaying....
bcoz u getting old liao hehehe

Laguna
24-11-11, 11:34
bcoz u getting old liao hehehe

age is only a number....

teddybear
26-11-11, 19:13
Below a nice article on REITS.
I had mentioned before that REITS are not worth investing contrary to some advocates here. Below is a detail writeup about it which agrees with my earlier opinion. But the worst investment of all title goes to :- structured deposits & ILPs! :banghead:

===============================
Business Times - 26 Nov 2011

SHOW ME THE MONEY
The Reit myth busted

Whatever Reits pay out in dividends, they will take back a few years later in the form of rights issues

By TEH HOOI LING
SENIOR CORRESPONDENT

THE high yields of real estate investment trusts (Reits) are tempting. And indeed, they have been touted as a relatively safe and stable instrument to own if one is looking for a steady stream of income. As such, many investors see Reits as a good asset class to have in one's retirement accounts.

But you know what? That Reits are good income-yielding instruments is but a myth. The thing is, whatever they pay out in dividends, they will take back - all and more - a few years later in the form of rights issues.

Here's what I found. Of the 17 Reits which have a listing history of at least four years on the Singapore Exchange, only three have not had any cash calls or secondary equity raising. The remaining 13 have had cash calls, and many had raised cash multiple times. One had a few rounds of private placement of new units which diluted the stake of existing unitholders somewhat.

For many of these Reits, the cash called back far exceeded the cash received. So, the myth of Reits as almost comparable to a fixed income instrument is really busted.

Take CapitaMall Trust (CMT) which was listed in July 2002. Assuming that Ms Retiree bought one lot or 1,000 units at the initial public offering (IPO) for a total sum of $960. For the whole of 2003, she received $57 in dividends. However in that year, CMT also had a one-for-10 rights issue. To subscribe for her entitlement, Ms Retiree would have to cough out $107.

In 2004, she would received $89 for the total number of CMT units she owned. That year, CMT had another rights issue, also one-for-10. The exercise price was higher at $1.62. To subscribe, Ms Retiree would have to fork out $178.

In 2005, CMT again had another fund raising exercise via rights issue. Ms R would pocket $124 in dividends but in that same year, had to return $282 back to the Reit.

In the next three years - 2006 to 2008 - Ms Retiree felt rich and happy. She merrily banked in her quarterly distributions which amounted to $404 for her holdings of CMT. Her one lot, after three rights issues, had grown to 1,331 units.

In the following year, another $175 was distributed. But CMT wasn't going to let Ms R be happy for long. It launched a big one - a 9-for10 rights issue. To fully subscribe for her entitlement, Ms R had to empty her bank account of a whopping $982.

And you know what, the cash call came in March 2009, when the Straits Times Index fell below 1,600 points, and many retirees were dismayed to see their investment portfolios plunge by half or more. Many fret if they would have enough left in the pot to sustain their lifestyle. Having to cough up more money for a Reit was the last thing that they wanted to do!

Negative cash flow

And here's the final tally. Since its IPO until today, a holder of one lot of CMT would have received $1,264 in cash distributions. However, in all, he or she had to return $1,549 back to the Reit so as to subscribe to their entitlement of new issues. That's a net outflow of $284 per lot.

It's the same story with K-Reit Asia, Capitacommercial Trust, Frasers Commercial Trust, Mapletree Logistics, First Reit, Lippo Malls Indo Retail Trust, AIMS AMP CAP and Saizen REIT in that what was taken back from investors was more than what was given out.

K-Reit has been one of the most aggressive fund raising Reits. Had you started with just one lot when it was listed in April 2006, you would have to dish out $8,399 to subscribe to your rights issue. Distributions amounted to $1,110, resulting in a net outflow of $7,289.

For Reits with at least four years of track record, only Fraser Centrepoint, Parkway Life and CapitaRetail China have not had any cash calls.

Instead of a rights issue, Suntec Reit raised funds by issuing new units to some institutional investors at a slight discount. Existing unitholders don't have to cough out additional cash, but they would have their share of earnings diluted somewhat.

Misalignment of interests

Reits are managed by managers, and managers are paid based on the size of the portfolio that they manage. So the incentive is for the managers to continue to raise money and expand the portfolio size. Sometimes this is not done in the best interest of unitholders.

The most recent controversy was over K-Reit's purchase of Ocean Financial Centre (OFC) from its sponsor Keppel Land. K-Reit has launched a 17-for-20 rights issue to pay for the purchase which was deemed by the market to be expensive at a time of uncertain outlook and when office rental is expected to ease.

BT reader Bobby Jayaraman argued that rather than be compensated based on factors such as the value of assets, net property income and acquisition fees, Reit managers should be paid based on a combination of growth in distribution per unit and market valuation of the Reit.

'If Reit managers were paid on the basis of distribution per unit and market valuation growth, would K-Reit have bulldozed its way through the OFC acquisition like they have done?

'The day K-Reit announced the OFC acquisition, its stock price fell close to 10 per cent and has continued sliding. Yet, its Reit manager will take home significantly increased management fees while shareholders would have lost a good chunk of their capital even as they bear significantly more risk in the form of higher leverage and potential property devaluations given the uncertain environment,' he wrote to BT.

Misalignment of interests aside, there are also unitholders who clamour for growth.

But while Reits may not be the perfect income yielding instrument that they are made out to be, they have proven their capacity for capital appreciation. Relative to the capital ploughed in, CapitaMall Trust has rewarded its unitholders with a return of 127 per cent. Most Reits have yielded positive total returns.

Instead of buying Reits for yields, some savvy investors only buy them when they see those with good quality assets trade at sharp discounts to their book value. For example in the first half of 2009, CMT was trading at 50 per cent its book value. Today, it is not as cheap. At $1.755, CMT is now trading at 13 per cent premium to its net asset value of $1.55.

Hence, valuation metrics which apply to a typical asset heavy stock would apply to Reits as well.

The writer is a CFA charterholder
Copyright © 2010 Singapore Press Holdings Ltd. All rights reserved.

teddybear
29-11-11, 17:11
Singapore luxury properties become an international product
Jun 21, 2010 - PropertyGuru.com.sg
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High net worth Chinese nationals purchasing properties in Singapore made the headlines this month after a Chinese national paid a whopping $36 million for a luxury house on Paradise Island, in Sentosa Cove.

The 21/2-storey bungalow – at 14,983 sq ft and with a built-area of around 17,000 sq ft – had one of the larger land areas in the development.

Luxury property in Singapore has turned into an international product with the same quality of luxury houses as in major cities like Hong Kong, though they cost less, said Jimmy Koh, an economist at UOB.

“It's similar to brands like Prada and Louis Vuitton, all around the world the standard of the product is the same. The difference in Singapore compared to other places like Hong Kong and New York is that the property here is about 50 per cent cheaper,” he said.

Real estate company DTZ reported that for housing demand among foreign nationalities, Mainland Chinese’s shares increased to 17 percent in Q1 2010 from 15 percent in Q4 2009. About 21 percent of them purchased homes in the CBD area, prime districts of 9 to 11 and in Sentosa Cove.

According to some real estate agents, affluent Chinese are usually businessmen from Shanghai and Beijing with an office in the country or few factories in China. Some of them purchase properties in Singapore even if it has a 99-year leasehold period because they want their kids to attend international or government schools in the country.

teddybear
29-11-11, 17:12
Prices at Park Infinia hit S$2180 psf
Jun 15, 2011 - PropertyGuru.com.sg
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Selling prices at Park Infinia at Wee Nam reached a historic record of S$2,180 psf last month, the second time prices at the three-year old condominium along Lincoln Road have exceeded the S$2,000 psf mark.

In April, a 560-sq ft unit on the 30th floor was sold for S$1.13 million (S$2,019 psf).

Developed by Keppel Land, Park Infinia features a wide array of facilities, such as tennis courts, a swimming pool and clubhouse. The development has a combination of one- to four-bedroom units and penthouses, sized from 560 to 3,315 sq ft.

The 486-unit condo is a few minutes’ drive to the Novena and Newton MRT stations, Orchard Road shopping belt and central business district (CBD). It is also near renowned schools such as St Joseph’s Institution and Anglo-Chinese School.

Meanwhile, the 51-unit The Linc boutique development, located directly across Park Infinia, has had a 1,292 sq ft unit on the 15th floor sold for S$1.82 million, approximately S$1,409 psf, close to the record price of S$1,471 psf when a first-floor unit measuring 646 sq ft was sold for S$950,000.

Prices of condo units in the Newton-Novena area in prime District 11 will likely increase, in anticipation of the upcoming launch of Buckley Classique along Buckley Road, said Anthony Liang, Chief Executive of Liang Long Real Estate.

He noted that the upcoming 64-unit condo project is a redevelopment of the former Buckley Mansion collective site and the 71,812 sq ft freehold bungalow.

To contact the journalist, you may send your message to [email protected]

teddybear
29-11-11, 17:13
No property bubble yet, says MM
Jun 28, 2010 - PropertyGuru.com.sg
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There is no bubble yet in the Singapore property market, said Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew.

The sharp price increases that have been experienced were "part of the total liquidity in the whole world system", said Mr. Lee, adding that foreigners still see properties as affordable and interest rates are still low.

"Even if we cap our excess, people in Hong Kong, Indonesia, will say, compared to what I have to pay, Singapore is cheap, let’s buy it," he said. "And apart from landed properties, they can buy into any condos."

Mr. Lee said the Singapore government is convinced that there is an underlying demand for residential property. "So it’s probably not a bubble yet."

He stressed that the Singapore government has taken measures to address concerns regarding the market overheating such as releasing more land to property developers and putting in place more stringent policies for homebuyers when borrowing from banks to acquire a property.

"More land is being released, to dampen the enthusiasm of everybody rushing for the latest release, and we’ve told the banks to be more prudent and have a higher downpayment," said Mr. Lee.

"These are the precautions we can take, but it does not stop the Indonesians or the Thais or the Malaysian Chinese or the Filipino Chinese from coming here and saying, ‘Compared to what I have to pay in my country, this is cheap’."

hopeful
29-11-11, 18:45
.........

"Even if we cap our excess, people in Hong Kong, Indonesia, will say, compared to what I have to pay, Singapore is cheap, let’s buy it," he said. "And apart from landed properties, they can buy into any condos."
................
"These are the precautions we can take, but it does not stop the Indonesians or the Thais or the Malaysian Chinese or the Filipino Chinese from coming here and saying, ‘Compared to what I have to pay in my country, this is cheap’."

Sorry, my english not so good.
Is LKY saying Singapore properties are cheaper than Malaysian, Philippine, Thai, Indonesian properties?
Does an MP need to take a fit-and-proper test?

teddybear
29-11-11, 20:32
Business Times - 29 Nov 2011


S'pore is Asia's safest city, offers highest quality of living: Mercer

By CARINE LEE

Singapore offers the highest quality of living and personal safety among Asian cities, showed a global survey by Mercer, released on Tuesday.

The 2011 Quality of Living worldwide city survey found that the city-state is the only Asian city to make the top 25 list, at number 25.

Tokyo came in at 46, while Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, Seoul and Taipei, were the other Asian cities that made the top 100 at positions 70, 76, 80 and 85 respectively. European cities represent over half the cities amongst the top 25 in the ranking, with Vienna, Austria taking the top spot.

In terms of cities with the highest personal safety ranking, Singapore ranked 8, behind European cities. The region's lowest-ranking city for personal safety was Karachi, Pakistan, at 216.

The Mercer report notes that many Asian cities rank at the bottom, due to social instability, political turmoil, pollution, disease and sanitation issues, natural disasters such as typhoons and tsunamis, and lack of suitable infrastructure.

Globally, Luxembourg topped the personal safety ranking, and Baghdad, at 221, is the world's least safe city.

Personal safety rankings were based on internal stability, crime levels, law enforcement effectiveness and the host country's international relations.

Mercer said that the survey - ranked against New York as the base city - provides valuable information and hardship premium recommendations for major cities throughout the world, helping governments and multi-national companies compensate employees fairly when placing them on international assignments.

Copyright © 2010 Singapore Press Holdings Ltd. All rights reserved.

hyenergix
30-11-11, 06:22
If u have lots of cash. Not true if u r poor.

proud owner
30-11-11, 07:27
except for the last piece ..he is re-posting old news ...

teddybear
30-11-11, 09:21
Below is a wake-up call for Asia, and obviously Singapore! Ahhh!!!

Solution to less volatile and more sustainable economy is to have a very much bigger service-based economy, and to have a very large service-based economy requires a critical mass of population!
That is why, Singapore needs >12m residents to have a large and sustainable service-based economy! :beats-me-man:

Still, have to discount Stephen Roach's words by >50% on other things because he is SUPER BEAR-BEAR! :p

Another Asian wake-up call
by Stephen S. Roach 04:45 AM Nov 30, 2011
For the second time in three years, global economic recovery is at risk. In 2008, it was all about the subprime crisis made in America. Today, it is the sovereign-debt crisis made in Europe. The alarm bells should be ringing loud and clear across Asia - an export-led region that cannot afford to ignore repeated shocks to its two largest sources of external demand.

Indeed, both of these shocks will have long-lasting repercussions. In the United States, the American consumer (who still accounts for 71 per cent of US GDP) remains in the wrenching throes of a Japanese-like balance-sheet recession.

In the 15 quarters since the beginning of 2008, real consumer spending has increased at an anemic 0.4 per cent average annual rate. Never before has America, the world's biggest consumer, been so weak for so long.

Until US households make greater progress in reducing excessive debt loads and rebuilding personal savings - a process that could take many more years if it continues at its recent snail-like pace - a balance-sheet-constrained US economy will remain hobbled by exceedingly slow growth.

A comparable outcome is likely in Europe. Even under the now seemingly heroic assumption that the euro zone will survive, the outlook for the European economy is bleak. The crisis-torn peripheral economies - Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Italy, and even Spain - are already in recession. And economic growth is threatened in the once-solid core of Germany and France, with leading indicators - especially sharply declining German orders data - flashing ominous signs of incipient weakness.

Moreover, with fiscal austerity likely to restrain aggregate demand in the years ahead, and with capital-short banks likely to curtail lending - a serious problem for Europe's bank-centric system of credit intermediation - a pan-European recession seems inevitable. The European Commission recently slashed this year's GDP growth forecast to 0.5 per cent - teetering on the brink of outright recession. The risks of further cuts to the official outlook are high and rising.

It is difficult to see how Asia can remain an oasis of prosperity in such a tough global climate. Yet denial is deep, and momentum is seductive. After all, Asia has been on such a roll in recent years that far too many believe that the region can shrug off almost anything that the rest of the world dishes out.

If only it were that easy. If anything, Asia's vulnerability to external shocks has intensified. On the eve of the Great Recession of 2008-2009, exports had soared to a record 44 per cent of combined GDP for Asia's emerging markets - fully 10 percentage points higher than the export share prevailing during Asia's own crisis in 1997-1998.

So, while post-crisis Asia focused in the 2000's on repairing the financial vulnerabilities that had wreaked such havoc - namely, by amassing huge foreign-exchange reserves, turning current-account deficits into surpluses, and reducing its out-size exposure to short-term capital inflows - it failed to rebalance its economy's macro structure. In fact, Asia became more reliant on exports and external demand for economic growth.

As a result, when the shock of 2008-2009 hit, every economy in the region either experienced a sharp slowdown or fell into outright recession. A similar outcome cannot be ruled out in the months ahead. After tumbling sharply in 2008-2009, the export share of emerging Asia is back up to its earlier high of around 44 per cent of GDP - leaving the region just as exposed to an external-demand shock today as it was heading into the subprime crisis three years ago.

China - long the engine of the all-powerful Asian growth machine - typifies Asia's potential vulnerability to such shocks from the developed economies. Indeed, Europe and the US, combined, accounted for fully 38 per cent of total Chinese exports in 2010 - easily its two largest foreign markets.

The recent data leaves little doubt that Asia is now starting to feel the impact of the latest global shock. As was the case three years ago, China is leading the way, with annual export growth plummeting in October 2011, to 16 per cent, from 31 per cent in October 2010 - and likely to slow further in coming months.

In Hong Kong, exports actually contracted by 3 per cent in September - the first year-on-year decline in 23 months. Similar trends are evident in sharply decelerating exports in Korea and Taiwan. Even in India - long thought to be among Asia's most shock-resistant economies - annual export growth plunged from 44 per cent in August to just 11 per cent in October.

As was true three years ago, many hope for an Asian "decoupling" - that this high-flying region will be immune to global shocks. But, with GDP growth now slowing across Asia, that hope appears to be wishful thinking.

The good news is that a powerful investment-led impetus should partly offset declining export growth and allow Asia's landing to be soft rather than hard. All bets would be off, however, in the event of a euro zone break-up and a full-blown European implosion.

This is Asia's second wake-up call in three years, and this time the region needs to take the warning seriously. With the US, and now Europe, facing long roads to recovery, Asia's emerging economies can no longer afford to count on solid growth in external demand from the advanced countries to sustain economic development.

Unless they want to settle for slower growth, lagging labour absorption, and heightened risk of social instability, they must move aggressively to shift focus to the region's own 3.5 billion consumers. The need for a consumer-led Asian rebalancing has never been greater.

Stephen S Roach, non-executive chairman of Morgan Stanley Asia, is a member of the faculty of Yale University and the author of The Next Asia.

proud owner
30-11-11, 10:16
just take restaurants as an example

dining in fine restaurants in singapore ... are the service up to standard ?

my last trip back to singapore in mar 2011 .. at a gathering of some 20 ish friends and we talked about the expensive dinings ...

we all agreed that for the amount we paid ..the food and the service did not justify the price at all ...

singapore indeed, need to buck up on its service standard

devilplate
30-11-11, 10:24
just take restaurants as an example

dining in fine restaurants in singapore ... are the service up to standard ?

my last trip back to singapore in mar 2011 .. at a gathering of some 20 ish friends and we talked about the expensive dinings ...

we all agreed that for the amount we paid ..the food and the service did not justify the price at all ...

singapore indeed, need to buck up on its service standard
Consumer also vy kiam siap mah...
Last time no 10% service charge....mostly nvr tip also....

Now compulsory 10% service charge mostly goes to owner's pocket

Who to blame? Pay low low....no tips....no pride to serve? Whahaha

U want gd service? Bmw sales ger all quite gd service so far....bmw M showflat at tuas largi bestest service....no joke ;)

hopeful
30-11-11, 11:36
.........
we all agreed that for the amount we paid ..the food and the service did not justify the price at all ...
.......

Must be Singaporean waitresses that serve you.

howgozit
30-11-11, 11:42
IMHO, just a generalisation

While I agree that the service standard is severely lacking in Singapore, I don't think the American system of tips is the answer. I have had terrible service in USA and tips were still expected, otherwise a confrontation may be forthcoming. Most people pay up regardless just to avoid that. In fact I find the service staff in the US at high end places quite fake and patronising.

Once at a moderately well-appointed place, our party of 8 spent what I thought was a substantial amount on dinner. Somehow the tip was miscalculated as the host thought that the percentage of the meal cost was too high a quantum for a tip. The tip was paid instead based on reason but was thought to be too low by the wait staff. The sarcasm we got as we left the restaurant marred our whole dining experience. I have always found it stressful to tip the appropriate amount in the US.

I think good service lies in the attitude of the service staff and some cultures are just more service-oriented than others. A good example would be Japan. In Japan tips are not expected and even rejected.

Some countries in Europe do not have a tipping culture either, tipping is voluntary and customers round up the bill generously if they want to and there is no fear of under-tipping. Tipping of course is still appreciated.

Wait staff in these countries do not begrudge their vocation. They do their job with professionalism and a smile, and you can find very senior gentlemen well into their 50s/60s waiting at your tables in Europe giving you tip top service.

At the risk of sounding unpatriotic, I would say that most Singaporeans have not reached that cultural sophistication yet. Our attitudes towards service from the hawker centre to the highest end dining only vary marginally.

Consumer also vy kiam siap mah...
Last time no 10% service charge....mostly nvr tip also....

Now compulsory 10% service charge mostly goes to owner's pocket

Who to blame? Pay low low....no tips....no pride to serve? Whahaha

U want gd service? Bmw sales ger all quite gd service so far....bmw M showflat at tuas largi bestest service....no joke ;)

devilplate
30-11-11, 11:51
This bro vy gd at reasoning....i cant even tcss back....hehe ;)

proud owner
30-11-11, 12:15
Must be Singaporean waitresses that serve you.

the most unbelievable encounter was " whats the soup of the day ? "

the reply was " Let me check "
:doh: :doh: :doh:

devilplate
30-11-11, 13:19
the most unbelievable encounter was " whats the soup of the day ? "

the reply was " Let me check "
:doh: :doh: :doh:
Not tat bad leh....

I kena "i duno and walk off" whahahahaha

devilplate
30-11-11, 13:21
So far NZ got the bestest service standard.....other developed countries all so so ....not really happy about it

hopeful
30-11-11, 14:33
actually, I would think any place in Singapore with Filipino waitresses are ok. Cheerful and knowledgable. I always feel bad about not tipping them.:ashamed1:

howgozit
30-11-11, 20:53
actually, I would think any place in Singapore with Filipino waitresses are ok. Cheerful and knowledgable. I always feel bad about not tipping them.:ashamed1:

Yes I agree, and they speak good English. They are a plenty in retail too. The more adventurous and ambitious ones are in Dubai, the place is crawling with Fillipinos in all industries particularly in the hotels.

Lord Anus
30-11-11, 22:53
just remember, california and new york, standard tip 15%.

exceptional service, at least 20% or more.

if party of 8 or mo, at least 25% regardless of service.

please dun sia sway us tng lang leh!

howgozit
01-12-11, 05:46
Ha ha, my host was not a tng lang...

And it was not my place to say how much he should tip.

But this is what I mean... we spend big money on a meal and then still have to agonise over whether the tip is enough. Imagine being expected to pay USD$4-500 on tips regardless of service. Is service really worth that much?

I am not sure if it is good for Singapore to go in that direction?


just remember, california and new york, standard tip 15%.

exceptional service, at least 20% or more.

if party of 8 or mo, at least 25% regardless of service.

please dun sia sway us tng lang leh!

devilplate
01-12-11, 08:19
Ha ha, my host was not a tng lang...

And it was not my place to say how much he should tip.

But this is what I mean... we spend big money on a meal and then still have to agonise over whether the tip is enough. Imagine being expected to pay USD$4-500 on tips regardless of service. Is service really worth that much?

I am not sure if it is good for Singapore to go in that direction?
so how SG can improve our service level to be like NZ

i remember NZ no complusory tipping....and their service standard all very nice

teddybear
05-01-12, 15:23
Don't be mislead by news article, like below:

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/fit-to-post-autos/where-busiest-roads-singapore-005656369.html

Oh my god! Their "Bukit Timah" is actually "Upper Bukit Timah" to city! Just the word "Upper" in the name made a hell lot of difference!


==================================
The purpose of the study was to highlight areas in Singapore that are most affected by congestion, in an attempt to help motorists consider alternative routes and departure times.
Statistics of the study showed almost 150 per cent increase in travel time from Clementi and Bukit Timah to the city centre between 8:00 to 9:00am compared to times of no traffic between 1:00 to 5:00am.
Evening peak hour traffic is worst from the city centre back to Tampines, Bukit Timah and Clementi between 5:00 to 7:00pm with almost 100 per cent increase in travel time. The central reference point for the city centre was Raffles Place, where business district Shenton Way is.
Residents of Clementi and (Upper) Bukit Timah have lots to grumble about as they tolerate the traffic delays and congestion every morning as well as every evening of the work week. Wilson Wong, a pet shop owner, lives at Hume Avenue in Bukit Timah and takes 20 minutes just to get from his place to get to the entrance of the Pan-Island Expressway (PIE).
He said, "I leave for work at about 9 in the morning and the traffic is very bad. From my condo to the PIE entrance it takes a good 20 minutes and that does not even include my commute to my workplace. Another congested part in the area is the flyover outside the Garden Vista condominium all the way to the Ayer-Rajah Expressway exit. Coming home from work is not too bad as I make my way home only after 7pm."
For customer service officer Andrew Chia who lives in Tampines, getting home from work can become quite a nightmare. "I usually try to leave work after 8pm so I can avoid the jams as well as ERP. But if I have to go home earlier, what would normally be a 10-minute journey home (in times of smooth flowing traffic) would take about 45 minutes. Once, I was stuck for about two hours due to an accident!" he said.
Charles Ma, who is in the marketing and communications line, also lives in Tampines and experiences the same headache as Chia every evening. "I leave work at about 7pm and I've not driven home during non-peak hours before so I'm always caught in the traffic jams. In fact, I also encounter traffic delays in the morning. It takes me about 45 minutes to get from home to my workplace at Lorong Chuan. I take about 30 minutes just to get out of the jam at Tampines!"
The result of this study was concluded from anonymous user data collected on TomTom GPS products and mobile applications over a six-month period. The information consists of the actual speed data from vehicles equipped with a TomTom GPS who drove on the roads surveyed and the recorded travel times are an average of all measurements along the route during the relevant time intervals. The same data forms the basis of IQ Routes, TomTom's intelligent routing technology, that enables drivers to look for alternative travel paths.

amk
05-01-12, 22:25
U know when this "study" was 1st published, I just laughed at it when I saw it mentioned bt timah and hume in the same sentence. Gardenvista some more :cool:

... and I never need to use highway to go to raffles place. What PIE entrance ? ;)

teddybear
10-01-12, 21:20
Below another of the report that makes me laugh! Ai yoh! Don't they know that many of them rent out their units without seeking approval (many by locking 1 room just like what others did) and at same time can don't report for income tax mah? :doh:


----------------------------------------------------
Business Times - 10 Jan 2012


95% of PRs who own HDB flats are owner-occupants

By MINDY TAN

MORE than 95 per cent of Singapore permanent resident (PR) households who own HDB flats are owner-occupants, according to figures released by the Ministry of National Development (MND).

This figure was made known in Parliament yesterday after Member of Parliament (MP) for Ang Mo Kio GRC Ang Hin Kee asked if it should be mandatory for PRs to occupy the HDB flats that they own.

Singapore PR households can purchase HDB flats only from the resale market, and are not eligible for government subsidies.

MND added that while HDB flats are primarily meant for owner-occupation, exceptions are made for flat owners who have legitimate reasons for being unable to occupy their flats for certain periods of time.

In such cases, owners may seek approval from HDB to sublet their flats. Each approval is valid for up to three years, after which owners are required to submit a fresh application to continue subletting.

In other written answers to questions raised, MND said that 2,883 direct-purchase flats were sublet within two years after completing their five-year Minimum Occupation Period (MOP), within the five-year span of January 2007 to November 2011. Of these, 971 were sublet to PRs residing in Singapore.

In that same period, 7,205 direct-purchase HDB flats were sold in the resale market within two years after MOP, constituting 9 per cent of all direct-purchase flats which were eligible for resale.

Separately, in the last five years, about 0.2 per cent of CPF members who service their mortgage through CPF have had to use cash to pay their monthly instalments because their CPF usage had reached or exceeded the valuation limit of their flats, said MND in a written response to a question raised by Jurong GRC MP, David Ong.

Non-Constituency MP Gerald Giam asked how home owners at Rochor Centre, which is set to make way for the construction of the North-South Expressway, will be compensated if they choose not to relocate to new flats in Kallang.

In a written response, MND noted that all flat owners are given a removal allowance as well as stamp and conveyancing fees to buy a comparable replacement flat, on top of market compensation.

Residents who choose not to relocate to the new flats in Kallang may apply for a new flat elsewhere under HDB's public sales exercises, and enjoy the same relocation benefits, including the price discount.

Alternatively, they may choose to sell their existing flat with the relocation package in the resale market, MND said.

Copyright © 2010 Singapore Press Holdings Ltd. All rights reserved.

kane
10-01-12, 21:34
they think everyone is as straight as them.

teddybear
10-01-12, 21:55
:confused: or stupid or naive or ignorant?


they think everyone is as straight as them.

kane
10-01-12, 22:00
:confused: or stupid or naive or ignorant?

i just choose a kinder word. heh.

maisonjai
10-01-12, 22:33
Foreigner uses BTO flat as 'hotel', renting out rooms to fellow countrymen Posted on 05 Jan 2012

http://dswww.stomp.com.sg/stomp/sgseen/this_urban_jungle/883102/foreigner_uses_bto_flat_as_hotel_renting_out.html