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teddybear
26-11-11, 20:07
I am wondering what would the 1st time buyers of HDB flats do: Would they borrow:
1) loan from HDB at 2.6%
Or 2) loan from private banks at 1%
Assuming they intend to borrow for 35 years.

teddybear
26-11-11, 20:09
I am wondering what would the 1st time buyers of HDB flats do - Would they:
1) Buy DBSS and pay a significant premium (like >$120k for a 5rm flat of 1100 sqft) with all renovations done & even equipped with oven, heater, etc all thrown in (just like private condo), only need to buy bed & furnitures
Or 2) Buy plain vanilla BTO and do renovation themselves?
Or 3) Buy resale at own choice location, floor level, facing with govt grant & renovate themselves?

Which do they perceive to be more worth while?

ikan bilis
26-11-11, 20:25
I am wondering what would the 1st time buyers of HDB flats do: Would they borrow:
1) loan from HDB at 2.6%
Or 2) loan from private banks at 1%
Assuming they intend to borrow for 35 years.

now hdb can loan 35yrs??.. :confused:

devilplate
26-11-11, 20:30
I am wondering what would the 1st time buyers of HDB flats do - Would they:
1) Buy DBSS and pay a significant premium (like >$120k for a 5rm flat of 1100 sqft) with all renovations done & even equipped with oven, heater, etc all thrown in (just like private condo), only need to buy bed & furnitures
Or 2) Buy plain vanilla BTO and do renovation themselves?
Or 3) Buy resale at own choice location, floor level, facing with govt grant & renovate themselves?

Which do they perceive to be more worth while?
Cfm bto la....still nid to tink meh? Hehe

Foc 100-200k or more from ah gong.....can take must take one

Buy resale pay cov and grant only 40k.....super lugi.....resale is for 2nd timers or PR de.....

Dbss...hmm....might as well get EC? Hehe

devilplate
26-11-11, 20:36
I am wondering what would the 1st time buyers of HDB flats do: Would they borrow:
1) loan from HDB at 2.6%
Or 2) loan from private banks at 1%
Assuming they intend to borrow for 35 years.
Like wat mr b said....int rate scarly shoot up how?

So for our roof, take hdb better....2.6% oredi world lowest liao....and hdb more frenly mah....no money can owe abit rite....hehe

buttercarp
26-11-11, 20:56
Know of two young couples who put down payment for DBSS.
Loan- never check properly, later found out can't get the amount of bank loan, then have to borrow here and there, so pathetic.

To me, if earn $10k or less a year, just settle for BTO.
After 5 years, then consider upgrading.
BTO look nice nowadays.

hyenergix
26-11-11, 20:57
I am wondering what would the 1st time buyers of HDB flats do: Would they borrow:
1) loan from HDB at 2.6%
Or 2) loan from private banks at 1%
Assuming they intend to borrow for 35 years.

No need to wonder. Just take up the temp job of a HDB front desk officer dealing with people buying BTOs. You will get more accurate answers. I'm sure you actually don't have to work since you are a landlord but you have thirst for knowledge.

ikan bilis
26-11-11, 21:00
if you read ch8 news for past few years, most interviewee bought dbss because it comes with renovation included, and also better location

last time there were some "whitebox" hdb pilot programs, where hdb comes as 4-walls only, you do whateva partitioning as you wish. i think that's is a damn good concept... but dead...

teddybear
26-11-11, 22:08
From various sources, it seem that DBSS is so popular despite the super high price tag is because no renovation is required (& still inclusive of oven, hob, hood, water heater, air-con, wardrobe, flooring etc), just buy bed & can move in already! In this case, BTO not so preferred, then whitebox sure die of no demand! :beats-me-man:

However, from cost-effective view point, BTO definitely seems better value than DBSS. Obviously, BTO surely better than resale because of the huge price difference. Appearently, resale HDB buyers mostly PRs and upgraders/HDB switchers.


if you read ch8 news for past few years, most interviewee bought dbss because it comes with renovation included, and also better location

last time there were some "whitebox" hdb pilot programs, where hdb comes as 4-walls only, you do whateva partitioning as you wish. i think that's is a damn good concept... but dead...

ikan bilis
26-11-11, 23:20
To me, I look at it differently,…. => bottom line is how much you have inside your pocket…


First time buyer, I would think
- if they can afford dbss or ec, likely they will cheong into that
- next, they will get resale hdb if can afford to
- they will get bto because no choice with limited $$, and not much urgency


for those higher earners, e.g. graduate couples
- how many will apply bto if they could afford an ec or condo?


For those condo downgrading to hdb
- lots of ca$h mah, they just get some resale hdb with good location and renovation, and throw in more $$ in renovation
- who will apply bto?


Most people spend more than necessary for their first home, most people push to the max for their first home, may be for face reason, or greedy for future capital appreciation or etc…. => limiting factor as $$ issue, and $$ issues means to come out with that 20% downpayment and subsequent monthly mortgage repayment…


...and,... not a correct way of using your knowledge on private property investment onto hdb for own stay... and majority of hdb dwellers are salary earners, not enterpreneurs, also younger age,... so different way of thinking....

if want to "Psychological Studies" then must think from different angle...

:rolleyes:

kane
27-11-11, 00:02
Cfm bto la....still nid to tink meh? Hehe

Foc 100-200k or more from ah gong.....can take must take one

Buy resale pay cov and grant only 40k.....super lugi.....resale is for 2nd timers or PR de.....

Dbss...hmm....might as well get EC? Hehe

yeah, confirm should go for BTO. otherwise the next step is EC. the only reason why DBSS still have demand is because their location tends to be better, otherwise BTO will be the one moving with most of the sales and DBSS projects can swat flies.

teddybear
27-11-11, 09:08
May be I should shift the psychological study to condos:
1) do people mind apts (little facilities) vs condos?
2) why pay so much for apts with little facilities? Might as well buy condos?


To me, I look at it differently,…. => bottom line is how much you have inside your pocket…


First time buyer, I would think
- if they can afford dbss or ec, likely they will cheong into that
- next, they will get resale hdb if can afford to
- they will get bto because no choice with limited $$, and not much urgency


for those higher earners, e.g. graduate couples
- how many will apply bto if they could afford an ec or condo?


For those condo downgrading to hdb
- lots of ca$h mah, they just get some resale hdb with good location and renovation, and throw in more $$ in renovation
- who will apply bto?


Most people spend more than necessary for their first home, most people push to the max for their first home, may be for face reason, or greedy for future capital appreciation or etc…. => limiting factor as $$ issue, and $$ issues means to come out with that 20% downpayment and subsequent monthly mortgage repayment…


...and,... not a correct way of using your knowledge on private property investment onto hdb for own stay... and majority of hdb dwellers are salary earners, not enterpreneurs, also younger age,... so different way of thinking....

if want to "Psychological Studies" then must think from different angle...

:rolleyes:

devilplate
27-11-11, 10:55
May be I should shift the psychological study to condos:
1) do people mind apts (little facilities) vs condos?
2) why pay so much for apts with little facilities? Might as well buy condos?
Point out some specific projects for case study purposes lor...

mcmlxxvi
27-11-11, 11:10
Point out some specific projects for case study purposes lor...
From recent experiences appears that security guards fees take up about over 30% of maintenance fees. Other than opening gate barriers they dont really have value add as often dont check visitors and illegal parking wheel clamp is moot point since lots never fully utilised anyway... If you swim and gym workout or tennis every or other day or every weekend you bbq it is worthwhile for project with facilities. Otherwise can considered underused...

mcmlxxvi
27-11-11, 11:12
May be I should shift the psychological study to condos:
1) do people mind apts (little facilities) vs condos?
2) why pay so much for apts with little facilities? Might as well buy condos?
Its never just about the facilities. Apartment projects are almost always quieter due to fewer/smaller units.

ikan bilis
27-11-11, 11:13
May be I should shift the psychological study to condos:
1) do people mind apts (little facilities) vs condos?
2) why pay so much for apts with little facilities? Might as well buy condos?

bro... very hard to answer you...
has to be more specific like for investment purpose or own-staying with limited budget,... and lots of details like location, mrt, rental value affecting decision too... and also timing/sentiments...

got 1 case:
in 2004/5, my friend visited some apt, no facilities, think should be Phoenix Height at TeckWhye. ground flr ~1000sqft at $200-250K. cheaper than hdb,... but no way you could rent out at that time... we were laughing at it but think now price also 2-3x liow....:ashamed1:

devilplate
27-11-11, 11:37
Isit dtrax tat mentioned abt his guru fren bot 4 units of pearlbank in 06 and make more den double within a yr? Old old 99lh but appreciate the most within tat period?

I hf seen many 99lh appreciated more den fh.....

Remember citysq only 8xxpsf lelong when it just TOP in 09? Ah neh, teh ni ni tio aplenty but px also shoot up alot....rental also vy goodie way beyond my expectation

Recently many small small super cmi old old apts kena enbloc whereas old old big big condos tio roadblock.....however those small apt wif pr 1.4 also tio blocked liao....hahaha

Long story short, entry px above everything

mcmlxxvi
27-11-11, 11:48
Isit dtrax tat mentioned abt his guru fren bot 4 units of pearlbank in 06 and make more den double within a yr? Old old 99lh but appreciate the most within tat period?

I hf seen many 99lh appreciated more den fh.....

Remember citysq only 8xxpsf lelong when it just TOP in 09? Ah neh, teh ni ni tio aplenty but px also shoot up alot....rental also vy goodie way beyond my expectation

Recently many small small super cmi old old apts kena enbloc whereas old old big big condos tio roadblock.....however those small apt wif pr 1.4 also tio blocked liao....hahaha

Long story short, entry px above everything
I can safely say its now about Timing, timing, timing. No more location location location given Seng Kang can hit 1300psf and Bedok 1500psf.

ikan bilis
27-11-11, 12:23
May be I should shift the psychological study to condos:
1) do people mind apts (little facilities) vs condos?
2) why pay so much for apts with little facilities? Might as well buy condos?

Very hard to answer this questions….

No facilities apts are all the very low end private housing. I will still say limiting factors as $$ for low end housing... still afford-ability...

If I compare a 500sqft MM with facilities and a 700sq ft apts with no facilities, but same price...

=> For real market demand, i think....
500sqft MM
- For those singles or young couples, who cannot afford a bigger space with facilities.

700sq ft apts with no facilities
- For those small family, who cannot afford a similar apt with facilities. But they need that extra bedroom

=> For investment purpose, i think both can be rented out quite easily, and similar upward price potential. 500ft MM more liquid, 700ft apt more en-bloc value.


:beats-me-man: :scared-3:


i think you guys might still be looking at it from investor's point of view... but the majority in the market could be struggling to buy that roof... so market behaviour might not be what we expect... :scared-4:

also note that demand for this low end housing is very much "distorted" by that HDB resale market...

devilplate
27-11-11, 12:27
Ikan bilis is a shark in disguise.....hehehe

august
27-11-11, 13:11
Know of two young couples who put down payment for DBSS.
Loan- never check properly, later found out can't get the amount of bank loan, then have to borrow here and there, so pathetic.

To me, if earn $10k or less a year, just settle for BTO.
After 5 years, then consider upgrading.
BTO look nice nowadays.

sometimes u got to wonder what is wrong with these people. Probably the single biggest purchase in their life up to that point and they dont do their sums properly. :doh:

kane
27-11-11, 14:14
Got hypnotised by the glamourously dressed up showflat, thought being young couples, they can borrow infinite amount of money.

Actually, a DBSS is about say 700k for a very good one. If they can downpay 20%. Loan quantum about $550k. Assuming HDB interest rate of 2.6% and 30 year repayment, monthly instalment is $2200. Which is still manageable for a family drawing $6k a month.

If they're earning $4k, combined, then why on earth are they looking at DBSS instead of BTO??

devilplate
27-11-11, 14:26
Got hypnotised by the glamourously dressed up showflat, thought being young couples, they can borrow infinite amount of money.

Actually, a DBSS is about say 700k for a very good one. If they can downpay 20%. Loan quantum about $550k. Assuming HDB interest rate of 2.6% and 30 year repayment, monthly instalment is $2200. Which is still manageable for a family drawing $6k a month.

If they're earning $4k, combined, then why on earth are they looking at DBSS instead of BTO??
Can buyer take hdb loan for dbss?

ikan bilis
27-11-11, 15:06
let me put down another scenario (real cases), this 1 not for "Psychological Studies" hor, but may be can show HDB resale market damn screw-ed up...

5rm hdb (HDB record)
288B Bt Batok St 25 01 to 05 122.00 Improved 1998 $527,000.00 Sep 2011
289D Bt Batok St 25 11 to 15 121.00 Improved 1997 $528,000.00 Sep 2011
288G Bt Batok St 25 01 to 05 121.00 Improved 1997 $520,000.00 Aug 2011
289D Bt Batok St 25 11 to 15 121.00 Improved 1997 $570,000.00 Aug 2011

Parkview Apartment 3bdr, Full facilities Swimming pool and etc (URA record)
PARKVIEW APARTMENTS BUKIT BATOK STREET 25 Apartment 1 800,000 1,119 Strata 715 Oct-11
PARKVIEW APARTMENTS BUKIT BATOK STREET 25 Apartment 1 840,000 1,130 Strata 743 Oct-11
PARKVIEW APARTMENTS BUKIT BATOK STREET 25 Apartment 1 780,000 1,130 Strata 690 Oct-11
PARKVIEW APARTMENTS BUKIT BATOK STREET 25 Apartment 1 820,000 1,130 Strata 726 Oct-11
PARKVIEW APARTMENTS BUKIT BATOK STREET 25 Apartment 1 830,000 1,119 Strata 741 Oct-11

- both next to each other
- both not near MRT
- both about 10yr old,
- both 3 bedroom, but hdb slightly bigger

for the 5rm hdb, you need about 20% down (~100K) + 10% COV (~50K), monthly loan repayment $1478 (400K, 30yr, 2%), Total upfront $150K and $50K must be in cash

for Parkview apts, you need 20% down (~164K), monthly loan repayment $2424 (400K, 30yr, 2%), Total upfront $164K and all can be in cpf


if you can afford the loan repayment of S$2500/month comfortably, which 1 will you buy??..

:banghead:

Laguna
27-11-11, 15:24
I hv quite a number of frns, who are very well to-do...but simply refused to help their children to buy private condo...
main reason : they must buy HDB flat to get the grant....otherwise, they will lose out on the grant.....

DC33_2008
27-11-11, 15:55
Not for the grant but to take what a Singaporean is entitled to.
I hv quite a number of frns, who are very well to-do...but simply refused to help their children to buy private condo...
main reason : they must buy HDB flat to get the grant....otherwise, they will lose out on the grant.....

Laguna
27-11-11, 16:52
Not for the grant but to take what a Singaporean is entitled to.

Ooops, how can Sg Govt did not give me such entitlement....

kane
27-11-11, 17:01
I hv quite a number of frns, who are very well to-do...but simply refused to help their children to buy private condo...
main reason : they must buy HDB flat to get the grant....otherwise, they will lose out on the grant.....

Yes, that is a must, since it's gifted to our young couples, must take it first. Five years later then plan for the next house.

phantom_opera
27-11-11, 17:17
You guys are investors, for dbss buyers the most important is to stay near parents so dbss is the choice, having a baby while staying far from parents very stressful one. 100k grant is just peanut for family making 10k per month, Coe 100k coming

mcmlxxvi
27-11-11, 17:36
Ooops, how can Sg Govt did not give me such entitlement....
They stole my entitlement when I am few months away from getting it!!!

devilplate
27-11-11, 18:08
They stole my entitlement when I am few months away from getting it!!!
resale hdb px oredi so high when u can buy leh.....cud be a blessing in disguise

Allthepies
27-11-11, 18:21
let me put down another scenario (real cases), this 1 not for "Psychological Studies" hor, but may be can show HDB resale market damn screw-ed up...

5rm hdb (HDB record)
288B Bt Batok St 25 01 to 05 122.00 Improved 1998 $527,000.00 Sep 2011
289D Bt Batok St 25 11 to 15 121.00 Improved 1997 $528,000.00 Sep 2011
288G Bt Batok St 25 01 to 05 121.00 Improved 1997 $520,000.00 Aug 2011
289D Bt Batok St 25 11 to 15 121.00 Improved 1997 $570,000.00 Aug 2011

Parkview Apartment 3bdr, Full facilities Swimming pool and etc (URA record)
PARKVIEW APARTMENTS BUKIT BATOK STREET 25 Apartment 1 800,000 1,119 Strata 715 Oct-11
PARKVIEW APARTMENTS BUKIT BATOK STREET 25 Apartment 1 840,000 1,130 Strata 743 Oct-11
PARKVIEW APARTMENTS BUKIT BATOK STREET 25 Apartment 1 780,000 1,130 Strata 690 Oct-11
PARKVIEW APARTMENTS BUKIT BATOK STREET 25 Apartment 1 820,000 1,130 Strata 726 Oct-11
PARKVIEW APARTMENTS BUKIT BATOK STREET 25 Apartment 1 830,000 1,119 Strata 741 Oct-11

- both next to each other
- both not near MRT
- both about 10yr old,
- both 3 bedroom, but hdb slightly bigger

for the 5rm hdb, you need about 20% down (~100K) + 10% COV (~50K), monthly loan repayment $1478 (400K, 30yr, 2%), Total upfront $150K and $50K must be in cash

for Parkview apts, you need 20% down (~164K), monthly loan repayment $2424 (400K, 30yr, 2%), Total upfront $164K and all can be in cpf


if you can afford the loan repayment of S$2500/month comfortably, which 1 will you buy??..

:banghead:

both looks yucky :D
both i will not buy :D

ikan bilis
27-11-11, 19:41
both looks yucky :D
both i will not buy :D

:D ... heehee, not really asking you to buy it lah.... for 800K you can get lots of better condos around...

just to highlight the property market is very screwed up in s'pore, especially hdb resale, so....
- might be nothing wrong for people to pick DBSS over resale hdb
- youngsters cheong-ing new condo might be a better/wiser choice, lots of good 800K new 2bdr around
- tomorrow sekali if KBW get too pressurised and decided to impose restrictions on new PR of less than 5yrs buying resale HDB… we will huat until blur blur…


The whole thing is very screwed up and manipulated… the whole world also…:banghead:

DaytonaSS
27-11-11, 19:58
I am wondering what would the 1st time buyers of HDB flats do: Would they borrow:
1) loan from HDB at 2.6%
Or 2) loan from private banks at 1%
Assuming they intend to borrow for 35 years.

Bro Teddy , I own a hdb too, was a FTB and 100% go for hdb loan. They are the best creditor one can get. Exercise flexibly in dire situations. I have friends whom can attest to that. In good time pay abit more interest it's ok, so in bad times got some "allowances" to maneuver.

Surely u understand TO-DATE , the best gift PAPs have given to all singaporeans is a HDB. The foundation which all middle class builds their wealth from.

mcmlxxvi
27-11-11, 21:00
resale hdb px oredi so high when u can buy leh.....cud be a blessing in disguise
You got a point brudder...

hyenergix
27-11-11, 21:02
Bro Teddy , I own a hdb too, was a FTB and 100% go for hdb loan. They are the best creditor one can get. Exercise flexibly in dire situations. I have friends whom can attest to that. In good time pay abit more interest it's ok, so in bad times got some "allowances" to maneuver.

Surely u understand TO-DATE , the best gift PAPs have given to all singaporeans is a HDB. The foundation which all middle class builds their wealth from.

O'rly? How come I don't have one? But newly converted citizens can have? I serve 2.5 years of NS okay?

devilplate
27-11-11, 21:10
O'rly? How come I don't have one? But newly converted citizens can have? I serve 2.5 years of NS okay?
U high flyer mah.....nvm la.....i also dun hf one leh....;)

DaytonaSS
27-11-11, 21:35
O'rly? How come I don't have one? But newly converted citizens can have? I serve 2.5 years of NS okay?

actually is want or dont want... not can or not. Rules are dead, human brain is flexible. I m sure if u can over qualify the income bracket, u know how easy it is to go around it ; )

ikan bilis
27-11-11, 21:56
got entitlement/grants must die die fully utilized 1 meh??... cannot save up 1 meh ??...

i'm still paying my 16yr old hdb loan at 3+%... never move it to commercial banks for past 10yrs also...

and in the future... i will still be qualified as first timer for ec if i got chance to apply for it... or DBSS on concessionary 2.6% loan... plus subsidy...

:D

kane
27-11-11, 23:41
They stole my entitlement when I am few months away from getting it!!!

how did they do that?

teddybear
28-11-11, 09:15
When strange things happen, like landed prices running out of control despite so many restrictions, so many units in such tiny land and yet sell at sky-high prices (relative to surrounding properties) etc, you know such good deals (for developers & resellers :p ) won't last long:


Landed home prices to fall in some areas after new rules, say analysts
04:45 AM Nov 26, 2011
by Wong Siew Ying
SINGAPORE - Prices of landed homes in Telok Kurau, Kovan and Joo Chiat could fall by 10 to 20 per cent following the introduction of new rules by the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) to limit the number of apartments that can be built in low-density housing areas, property analysts said.
The rules, which kicked in on Thursday, are more likely to affect smaller developers, the analysts said. The plot size for all new flat developments in Singapore must now be at least 1,000 sq m and there is a cap on the number of units that can be built in a project in certain areas to prevent overcrowding.
Homeowners hoping to sell their plots for redevelopment in the areas identified by the URA as "problematic" will be particularly hit, analysts said. According to its circular to professional institutes, the URA named Telok Kurau, Kovan and Joo Chiat/Jalan Eunos estates.
Mr Eugene Lim, key executive officer at property consultancy ERA, said: "Developers are known to pay higher prices for land because they know they can build small units and they can price them at higher per square foot.
"There are now restrictions. You will see developers being less aggressive in their bids and we could possibly see prices for land in these areas coming down by as much as between 10 and 20 per cent."
With the new requirements, developers will not be able to build as many units on the site. For instance, in the past, a 1,000-sq-m plot would yield about 20 units, but now the developers can build just over 10 units on the same plot.
Because the URA has limited the number of "shoebox" or small units that can be built in a project in order to improve the overall living environment, analysts said developers will now have to rethink their marketing strategy.
"If you are looking at a much larger unit, say about 1,200 sq ft and you are hoping to sell at the same unit price of S$1,000 psf, then you are talking about close to S$1.2 million, as opposed to less than a million kind of quantum. Therefore it may not be easy to sell," said Ms Chia Siew Chuin, director of Research & Advisory at Colliers International.
But the upside of the new rules is that housing units will be better designed, more spacious and with larger areas for landscaping.
URL http://www.todayonline.com/Business/EDC111126-0000039/Landed-home-prices-to-fall-in-some-areas-after-new-rules,-say-analysts
Copyright 2011 MediaCorp Pte Ltd | All Rights Reserved

teddybear
28-11-11, 09:22
If condos almost same price as HDB or only 25% more, sure buy condos lah! Why would I buy HDB without facilities & got to pay extra for car parks? :doh:

Furthermore HDB loan 2.6%, private loan 1%! :beats-me-man:



:D ... heehee, not really asking you to buy it lah.... for 800K you can get lots of better condos around...

just to highlight the property market is very screwed up in s'pore, especially hdb resale, so....
- might be nothing wrong for people to pick DBSS over resale hdb
- youngsters cheong-ing new condo might be a better/wiser choice, lots of good 800K new 2bdr around
- tomorrow sekali if KBW get too pressurised and decided to impose restrictions on new PR of less than 5yrs buying resale HDB… we will huat until blur blur…


The whole thing is very screwed up and manipulated… the whole world also…:banghead:

devilplate
28-11-11, 09:58
:D ... heehee, not really asking you to buy it lah.... for 800K you can get lots of better condos around...


bro...u sure 800k can get many other better condos? similar size hor.....dun tell me MM hor....hehehe

ikan bilis
28-11-11, 11:30
bro...u sure 800k can get many other better condos? similar size hor.....dun tell me MM hor....hehehe

:D Heehee... Geylang loh.... i tot we had been talking about that with graveyard in the sherwood thread... he likes the geylang idea very much mah!!... other places ofcos got to be 2bdr lah...

(or 400K only after 2 yrs... that's wat i heard...:ashamed1: :D )