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gfoo
30-01-09, 13:28
What would be your trigger price point for you to start getting interested, or start buying the above properties?

august
30-01-09, 13:38
Poll is targeted at buyers. Naturally all buyers will want to pay as low as possible.

Same if do a poll for sellers, obviously all want to sell as high as possible. :D

latour
30-01-09, 14:28
Why is OA psf lower than ESTA psf ??? What is the main and key diff ?

gfoo
30-01-09, 14:33
Why is OA psf lower than ESTA psf ??? What is the main and key diff ?

Esta TOPed already, so there's inferred rental value. Also, new tangibles are typically priced a little higher than intangibles, as both developments are like twin sisters. Finally, Esta is technically less dense PPR than OA.

East Lover
30-01-09, 15:10
There are already 11 votes within a hour! and none of us voted for above $700 psf! :)

Just curious, gfoo, as a creator, can you see who voted which option? :p

gfoo
30-01-09, 15:13
There are already 11 votes within a hour! and none of us voted for above $700 psf! :)

Just curious, gfoo, as a creator, can you see who voted which option? :p

cannot, i not admin

isaaclim
30-01-09, 16:18
Esta TOPed already, so there's inferred rental value. Also, new tangibles are typically priced a little higher than intangibles, as both developments are like twin sisters. Finally, Esta is technically less dense PPR than OA.

Respectfully disagree! If they do, it will not be 100psf different, dude!

Furthermore, ESTA is at the disadvantage as it TOP at this period of time. Only nuts will rent the place at this period.

Last but not least, MCL vs UOL. Well no need any comment for this.

East Lover
30-01-09, 16:44
wow! 2 support for $1000 psf already...:scared-4:
interesting...

WolleyDragon
30-01-09, 16:48
wow! 2 support for $1000 psf already...:scared-4:
interesting...

:doh: the 2 $1000 are vested interested speculators hoping to cash out.. haha

gfoo
30-01-09, 18:48
interesting - a fair bit of respondents say that they'll wait until 2011. Anyone who voted care to share your insights?

for me, i'm trying to find a balance between deflation and mass inflation. We are definitely in the deflation stage right now, and this will probably last throughout 2009. But neither do i want to wait to a stage whereby mass inflation kicks in and i miss out on a good deal. To me, the price of precious metals is an early warning indicator. once gold hits past $1500, my bet is that tis time to buy property recession or not.

oh and btw, those that think that the govt is really pumping $20.4b into the system should think again. I just went for a meeting with a government agency. The risk sharing initiative in my own interpretation is a complete farce. SMEs and companies will still have to apply to banks for capital, no special treatment or special consideration. It is now a virtually blanket requirement for company directors to underwrite loans for the company. If a company defaults on the loan, the bank will come after the company assets first, then the director's personal assets next. Only once they make the director bankrupt and stuff, will the govt's risk sharing kick in. Which director in his or her right mind will in order to maintain jobs and salaries even when no orders, put their hard earned assets at the banks mercy? the only logical alternative is to either cut pay, retrench, or both.

so for those that think that the $20.4b will improve the economy in a big way, think again.

In light of this, i revise my own price trigger point downwards - unfortunately cannot change my vote :)

Real Estate Pundit
30-01-09, 19:33
It has been a while since I bothered to contribute.....so let's see how this thread ends up.

BTW, i voted for the last option. My en-bloc was completed in July 2008, monies back to CPF earning 2.5%(I think), cash in the bank earning peanuts. But what counts is that the developer that bought my development has rented my unit back to me coz they can't re-develop now :) Hahahahahaha!!!!!!! So I just started paying rent Feb 2009 as the 6-months free stay just ended. All in, the monies in bank and CPF still generate positive monthly gain after deducting rental. That is why I can "laugh all the way to the bank". :D

With the foreign talents leaving Singapore, while at the same time, more properties TOP to provide more choices, the rental market is going to hell as I type this. This situation will in turn drive the property prices into a downward spiral.

And if there is no recovery in the rental market, the property prices will also not recover. This situation is the reverse of the 2006/7 rental and sale prices. It was the recovery of the rental market in 2006 that led the property price recovery in 2007.

Just my 2 cents......and my crystal ball also tells me that I'll probably get to continue to rent my Ex-home for at least another 2 years. I really don't see the rush to buy anything now or in the near future.

Good luck to the Optimists. Me? I am a Realist....very very realistic.

Miow
30-01-09, 20:01
the masses seldom make super profits. That why most pple are not wealthy. If u want to get a good unit, u shld pay above d average required price coz at the mass avg price, there will be many pple looking for the same investment.. But, there's always the possibility that the avg person is wrong, then u shld wait and not buy in the next 2 yrs?

august
30-01-09, 22:51
wow! 2 support for $1000 psf already...:scared-4:
interesting...

then they should be out there snapping up choice units :)

East Lover
02-02-09, 08:54
It has been a while since I bothered to contribute.....so let's see how this thread ends up.

BTW, i voted for the last option. My en-bloc was completed in July 2008, monies back to CPF earning 2.5%(I think), cash in the bank earning peanuts. But what counts is that the developer that bought my development has rented my unit back to me coz they can't re-develop now :) Hahahahahaha!!!!!!! So I just started paying rent Feb 2009 as the 6-months free stay just ended. All in, the monies in bank and CPF still generate positive monthly gain after deducting rental. That is why I can "laugh all the way to the bank". :D

With the foreign talents leaving Singapore, while at the same time, more properties TOP to provide more choices, the rental market is going to hell as I type this. This situation will in turn drive the property prices into a downward spiral.

And if there is no recovery in the rental market, the property prices will also not recover. This situation is the reverse of the 2006/7 rental and sale prices. It was the recovery of the rental market in 2006 that led the property price recovery in 2007.

Just my 2 cents......and my crystal ball also tells me that I'll probably get to continue to rent my Ex-home for at least another 2 years. I really don't see the rush to buy anything now or in the near future.

Good luck to the Optimists. Me? I am a Realist....very very realistic.
Welcome back, Real Estate Pundit!

Guess what, I called Esta agent yesterday, and tried to test water for 4 bedder at 1.1 mil, that idiot agent cut my phone!:banghead:

Also the tropica at bedok reservoir, 4 bedders still asksing above 900K! :simmering:
and 3 bedder around 1230 sqft still dear to ask $750K and hard to negotiate :scared-3:

According to the agent, those owners are not serious sellers, just wanna test market - if have idiot to buy, then they can happily upgrade, otherwise just stay loh...

gfoo
02-02-09, 09:21
there's a sucker born every minute. check this out:

beacon edge last 2 transactions at about $779psf for a 990sqft unit.

an idiot just paid $850psf for a similar sized unit at a worse stack.

both stacks face the back right into joo chiat restaurants' exhaust

august
02-02-09, 10:43
interesting - a fair bit of respondents say that they'll wait until 2011. Anyone who voted care to share your insights?

for me, i'm trying to find a balance between deflation and mass inflation. We are definitely in the deflation stage right now, and this will probably last throughout 2009. But neither do i want to wait to a stage whereby mass inflation kicks in and i miss out on a good deal. To me, the price of precious metals is an early warning indicator. once gold hits past $1500, my bet is that tis time to buy property recession or not.

oh and btw, those that think that the govt is really pumping $20.4b into the system should think again. I just went for a meeting with a government agency. The risk sharing initiative in my own interpretation is a complete farce. SMEs and companies will still have to apply to banks for capital, no special treatment or special consideration. It is now a virtually blanket requirement for company directors to underwrite loans for the company. If a company defaults on the loan, the bank will come after the company assets first, then the director's personal assets next. Only once they make the director bankrupt and stuff, will the govt's risk sharing kick in. Which director in his or her right mind will in order to maintain jobs and salaries even when no orders, put their hard earned assets at the banks mercy? the only logical alternative is to either cut pay, retrench, or both.

so for those that think that the $20.4b will improve the economy in a big way, think again.

In light of this, i revise my own price trigger point downwards - unfortunately cannot change my vote :)

btw how's ur viewing this past weekend? :)

East Lover
02-02-09, 10:46
btw how's ur viewing this past weekend? :)
Just curious, anything special this weekend??? :confused:

august
02-02-09, 10:47
Just curious, anything special this weekend??? :confused:

nope.. :)

other than FEO ads for Rafflesia, Hillview Regency and Lakeshore lol

gfoo
02-02-09, 12:00
btw how's ur viewing this past weekend? :)
shortlisted 3 units in 3 areas, all of which are about 2rm, 1000-1200sqft

D10 (river valley/leonie area)
D11 (novena area NOT balestier. balestier area are ripoffs)
D15 (east coast road area NOT tk kurau, which are also ripoffs)

all psf have dropped between 30-50% of highs. now bargaining with developer

East Lover
02-02-09, 12:46
shortlisted 3 units in 3 areas, all of which are about 2rm, 1000-1200sqft

D10 (river valley/leonie area)
D11 (novena area NOT balestier. balestier area are ripoffs)
D15 (east coast road area NOT tk kurau, which are also ripoffs)

all psf have dropped between 30-50% of highs. now bargaining with developer

I thought your wife gave you red light already? :p


sigh my wife wants me to just give up this house hunting thing - too tiring she says. Just buy a HDB, fully paid up, and use the spare cash to retire or something

Mabel
02-02-09, 12:47
Welcome back, Real Estate Pundit!

Guess what, I called Esta agent yesterday, and tried to test water for 4 bedder at 1.1 mil, that idiot agent cut my phone!:banghead:

Also the tropica at bedok reservoir, 4 bedders still asksing above 900K! :simmering:
and 3 bedder around 1230 sqft still dear to ask $750K and hard to negotiate :scared-3:

According to the agent, those owners are not serious sellers, just wanna test market - if have idiot to buy, then they can happily upgrade, otherwise just stay loh...

This is not the best time to buy from owners cos they are still hoping to get good prices like early last year's or they had bought expensive and just cannot give up. Bargaining with developers may have better luck.

gfoo
02-02-09, 13:03
I thought your wife gave you red light already? :p

lol. tired is one thing, but i can't see myself bringing up a family in HDB esp with the increasing spate of undesirables happening in the news lately. unless really really no choice - but now still got choice. just more troublesome i guess

Geylang OKT
02-02-09, 13:42
Wait until the STI = 1200 :scared-2:

myxzyden
03-02-09, 02:21
shortlisted 3 units in 3 areas, all of which are about 2rm, 1000-1200sqft

D10 (river valley/leonie area)
D11 (novena area NOT balestier. balestier area are ripoffs)
D15 (east coast road area NOT tk kurau, which are also ripoffs)

all psf have dropped between 30-50% of highs. now bargaining with developer

The one at D15, do you mind sharing wht's the psf price you want? If possible the project name? Are there still any units left from developer for OA or Esta?

Sean.G
03-02-09, 23:04
Yo bro, no more developer units for Esta and One Amber. Have to buy from resale market.

Generally in the east not many developer units left, imagine Tierra Vue and Grand Duchess all sold out too! But can try to catch speculators who went in late and missed the boat, now trying to le-long their units.

Those with developer units are really new launches like Amery, Parc Seabreeze, St Patrick's Residences and the one next to Chinese Swimming Club, start with V also.

I tink those interested in buying west coast or bukit timah area are luckier, more units left over there to bargain from developer.

From personal experience, if you trying to bargain with those units already TOP-ed in D15 who are owned by owner, you can be prepared to :banghead:

gfoo
07-02-09, 21:03
an update from Day 1 of my weekend shopping

One Amber, 3 owners chut mouth at $850, but willing to transact at about $760-$770. mid flrs, not studios.

but there was one champion owner chut mouth at $720! and willing to consider offers at $670 (i think liddat is a loss? dunno). mid to low floor, 3 bedder.

after a lot of consideration and personal analysis (however flawed), i've decided to forego d15. the following reasons:

pace of developments in d15 gives sense of deja vu ala hillview debacle in the last recession. it lead the property downturn last time, and i've got this feeling d15 will lead this recession's declines
huge drops in d9 today offer tremendous value
quality of buyers in showrooms such as palmera, poshgrove not too goodin 2004/5, a telok kurau apartment status cost about $350psf. today, a telok kurau apartment costs about $650/700. an 85% increase. inflation adjusted that's still a 77% premium

in 2004/5, a balmoral apartment cost about $900psf. today, it is about $1200psf. a 33% increase. inflation adjusted, that's just a 15% premium.

talking to so many owners, the difference is really the mentality of the owners. balmoral/orchard owners are majority indonesians, rich foreigners and corporations, and when they let go, they just let go, loss or not as long as within reasonable P&L limits.

d15 owners are extremely kiasi, rather wait and see than lose their profit margins too much. well they have waited since October and prices continue to slide without much upside.

those who have said 'corporations have holding power' are talking through their nose. they are all about P&L, and if they can cut to make the next quarter seem better, they rather take a small hit now, than a bigger hit down the road

many agents i have spoken to have also given up, many preferring to represent developers and foreign owners, as they are more rooted in reality.

so here's a hint to all: balmoral, river valley grove, leonie and grange. it really ain't that expensive if you do proper research!!!

blackswan
07-02-09, 21:19
Can't concur more. Its really a mentality issue.
There are really some Districts that are really not as expansive
if we look wider, even the more prime district.
Use to be very keen on The Verte on TK H, Esta, St Patrick's Residences
but after casting my net wider, discover that there are some better district that is not as expansive as imagine.

But disagree on the point that D15 will lead the downturn.
Believe the one will be D1 IMHO like The Sail and MBR and One Shenton.
Massive supply coming onstream when the demand is just fading as fast.

Have a great weekend to all.

code01
07-02-09, 21:20
an update from Day 1 of my weekend shopping

One Amber, 3 owners chut mouth at $850, but willing to transact at about $760-$770. mid flrs, not studios.

but there was one champion owner chut mouth at $720! and willing to consider offers at $670 (i think liddat is a loss? dunno). mid to low floor, 3 bedder.

after a lot of consideration and personal analysis (however flawed), i've decided to forego d15. the following reasons:

pace of developments in d15 gives sense of deja vu ala hillview debacle in the last recession. it lead the property downturn last time, and i've got this feeling d15 will lead this recession's declines
huge drops in d9 today offer tremendous value
quality of buyers in showrooms such as palmera, poshgrove not too goodin 2004/5, a telok kurau apartment status cost about $350psf. today, a telok kurau apartment costs about $650/700. an 85% increase. inflation adjusted that's still a 77% premium

in 2004/5, a balmoral apartment cost about $900psf. today, it is about $1200psf. a 33% increase. inflation adjusted, that's just a 15% premium.

talking to so many owners, the difference is really the mentality of the owners. balmoral/orchard owners are majority indonesians, rich foreigners and corporations, and when they let go, they just let go, loss or not as long as within reasonable P&L limits.

d15 owners are extremely kiasi, rather wait and see than lose their profit margins too much. well they have waited since October and prices continue to slide without much upside.

those who have said 'corporations have holding power' are talking through their nose. they are all about P&L, and if they can cut to make the next quarter seem better, they rather take a small hit now, than a bigger hit down the road

many agents i have spoken to have also given up, many preferring to represent developers and foreign owners, as they are more rooted in reality.

so here's a hint to all: balmoral, river valley grove, leonie and grange. it really ain't that expensive if you do proper research!!!

hey bro.. ur analysis is really insightful. Thanks for sharing!! One thing for sure. Alot of investors are moving back into Orchard Road as u said :)

gfoo
07-02-09, 21:25
Can't concur more. Its really a mentality issue.
There are really some Districts that are really not as expansive
if we look wider, even the more prime district.
Use to be very keen on The Verte on TK H, Esta, St Patrick's Residences
but after casting my net wider, discover that there are some better district that is not as expansive as imagine.

But disagree on the point that D15 will lead the downturn.
Believe the one will be D1 IMHO like The Sail and MBR and One Shenton.
Massive supply coming onstream when the demand is just fading as fast.

Have a great weekend to all.
aiyo D1 mai kong, there already kalangkapoh. $250 parking, $600 conservancy. 92 year leasehold, every day you hold it depreciates. now the sail studio $700k already can get. your neighbours for next 3-5 years is the construction bangla, dust and mud everywhere.

august
07-02-09, 21:33
But disagree on the point that D15 will lead the downturn.
Believe the one will be D1 IMHO like The Sail and MBR and One Shenton.
Massive supply coming onstream when the demand is just fading as fast.

Have a great weekend to all.

my sentiments too :D

august
07-02-09, 21:36
hey bro.. ur analysis is really insightful. Thanks for sharing!! One thing for sure. Alot of investors are moving back into Orchard Road as u said :)

d15 has its charms but will always be less glam than d9 and 10 :o

gfoo
07-02-09, 21:47
hey bro.. ur analysis is really insightful. Thanks for sharing!! One thing for sure. Alot of investors are moving back into Orchard Road as u said :)
thanks. a lot of 'upgraders' and current buyers pay too much attention to overall quantum. e.g. $440k for alexis. but that's still $1000psf for that lok sok area. my advice is have a budget, and look for the lowest % increase from 2004/2005 prices.

don't just because a property has fallen from it's 2007 'highs' that you plunge in. let me give you a D15 example.

Take Vitra & Beacon Edge, they are 250m apart on the same road. Vitra's launchwas $400psf, high was $700psf, now it's $554. Beacon Edge's launch was $1350psf, now it's $770psf. agent will say - waaaah beacon edge is 50% less than launch price, you sure make. but if you look at absolute values, beacon edge is still 50% more expensive than a similar property 250m down the road.

the champion of d15 is poshgrove east. at launch, it was $5XXpsf. Developer hold back units, now trying to lelong for $800psf, claiming it's 30% cheaper than 2007 transactions of $1100psf. can you find the irony in this?

so for those that have due to good marketing tactics, never do research, and bought poshgrove fr developer - you're an idiot as subsales are $6XXpsf.

i still maintain d15 might have potential to be in trouble short term - go look at this weekend's rental listings, see how thick it is and see how many are from d15. these are early warning indicators. but d15 is UNBEATABLE in amenities, charm, history etc etc - long term, d15 always comes up one of the tops as per the last 150 years of singapore history. (d15 excluding telok kurau hor, that area is gone case)

i'm not even addressing those suburban folks that think 99 yr quartz, ytr etc etc are great buys at $6-700psf. at least those that consider 1,5,9-11, 15 - they have hope.

gfoo
07-02-09, 21:56
btw great buys for terraces in siglap and tkatong now. there was an award winning built from scratch 3 storey terrace, built 2 years ago, siglap, at $550psf/land freehold. owner bought land years back at $250psf, rented out for 4 years, 2006 tore down and rebuilt at $80psf, stay in there, and then sold it at a very affordable $1.3m. i missed out on this, sold 3 days before my enquiry. owner sold to raise cash for a gcb in bt timah, which has come down soo much in terms of affordability.

but there are tons of similar cases out there.

e.g. 6500sq ft begonia/nims, $290psf/land (not psf/built up, which is a farce), very very beautiful 999 years - can build a tennis court on your land area :)

so pple, please dun get suckered by the fancy showrooms of new launches at d15. i see the cars you drive, hdb parking labels, bring 3 generations down just to see an apt-status - pls don't overstretch and don't get suckered. money hard to earn, you don't have to bailout developers or agents

blackswan
07-02-09, 22:28
Another example of overpriced D15.
St Patrick's View enbloc to TG Development in July 2007 for 682psf.
However, 3 months before they first talk about the enbloc, the price is only 546psf (i.e. that's in April 2007, not too far from the peak/mania of 2007). Now they are pricing the units there around 900-1000psf.

So can imagine before 2007 before they start the enbloc talk, what price are they only to command around that area. Low 400+???

gfoo
07-02-09, 22:38
sigh, just read in BT that caspian has sold very well. $600psf for a 99 year, cfm kena block by another condo down the road, nowhere close to the 'lake', and within smelling distance to heavy industry smog.

just as in politics, the sheep continue to hold out their wrists to developers saying - 'come, bleed us dry'

idiots

jc
07-02-09, 22:40
IMHO no point considering or even comparing apt or small projects be it in whatever district. In LT px appreciation potential is limited due to min facilities, high maintenance fees eating into rental return, and the time bomb of coughing up more $$ when the place gets old for major repair work. Their tx px is also not reflective of the area due to the lack of liquidity.

firec
07-02-09, 22:41
the champion of d15 is poshgrove east. at launch, it was $5XXpsf. Developer hold back units, now trying to lelong for $800psf, claiming it's 30% cheaper than 2007 transactions of $1100psf. can you find the irony in this?


Ya, stupid developer. And why didn't they sell off the remaining 14 units at the property peak last year? Agent claimed they couldn't sell because showroom was torn down. Honestly, I think they mis-predicted that property will continue boom until poshgrove TOP. Even without showroom, they could have sold the units a la subsale style.

gfoo
07-02-09, 22:42
IMHO no point considering or even comparing apt or small projects be it in whatever district. In LT px appreciation potential is limited due to min facilities, high maintenance fees eating into rental return, and the time bomb of coughing up more $$ when the place gets old for major repair work. Their tx px is also not reflective of the area due to the lack of liquidity.
ok this is a very valid and interesting point and i want to learn. Can you share more - the thinking/rationale behind this.

i've always worked on the plot ratio basis of calculations, thus never really bothered about condo or apartment status.

please share (before i make a bobo and put deposit down on balmoral area). thanks!

august
07-02-09, 22:47
sigh, just read in BT that caspian has sold very well. $600psf for a 99 year, cfm kena block by another condo down the road, nowhere close to the 'lake', and within smelling distance to heavy industry smog.

just as in politics, the sheep continue to hold out their wrists to developers saying - 'come, bleed us dry'

idiots

saw news on tv.. they interviewed mostly young couples
maybe these are the ones who cant wait and need to buy for stay mah... and with HDB prices still holding up, so is not hard to understand their rationale to "upgrade" to a condo

but wonder how long hdb prices can continue to hold up hehe

gfoo
07-02-09, 22:54
saw news on tv.. they interviewed mostly young couples
maybe these are the ones who cant wait and need to buy for stay mah... and with HDB prices still holding up, so is not hard to understand their rationale to "upgrade" to a condo

but wonder how long hdb prices can continue to hold up hehe

that's why schools should teach younger generation on money matters.
they should have waited a month or two, top up $80-100psf more (or even less depending), and got themselves FREEHOLD one amber in the historic D15 area, instead of living next to a mosquito swamp.

99 years are now proven not to be easy to top up lease, and then only at 75 years extra for 20% of applicants. since banks will not fund properties over 30 years old, that means a $600k caspian unit depreciates at $9k per annum.

HDB's elderly lease buy back scheme is going to have ramifications down the road in terms of valuing 99 yr property, buyers just haven't realised this yet

august
07-02-09, 23:12
that's why schools should teach younger generation on money matters.
they should have waited a month or two, top up $80-100psf more (or even less depending), and got themselves FREEHOLD one amber in the historic D15 area, instead of living next to a mosquito swamp.

99 years are now proven not to be easy to top up lease, and then only at 75 years extra for 20% of applicants. since banks will not fund properties over 30 years old, that means a $600k caspian unit depreciates at $9k per annum.

HDB's elderly lease buy back scheme is going to have ramifications down the road in terms of valuing 99 yr property, buyers just haven't realised this yet

i thought abt the hdb lease buy back thingy too.. it makes sense to just sell the flat instead of lease back to hdb, but then sell liao will need to find or buy another place to live.
so is more applicable for those living in small flats who cannot downgrade anymore

PN
08-02-09, 19:43
that's why schools should teach younger generation on money matters.
they should have waited a month or two, top up $80-100psf more (or even less depending), and got themselves FREEHOLD one amber in the historic D15 area, instead of living next to a mosquito swamp.

99 years are now proven not to be easy to top up lease, and then only at 75 years extra for 20% of applicants. since banks will not fund properties over 30 years old, that means a $600k caspian unit depreciates at $9k per annum.

HDB's elderly lease buy back scheme is going to have ramifications down the road in terms of valuing 99 yr property, buyers just haven't realised this yet

Funny. You predict & expect the price to fall this year. Well the price has fallen in this case à Caspian. This launch has attracted people to go to the showroom, see see look look and some even bought. You should be happy à it happened and your crystal ball is working although the property px has not reach your dream price (if there is one).

From your posting, I can tell you are a hardworking and smart person to a certain extend. You have done quite a lot of research as well. This world consists of people with different needs and thinking. Just because they go for 99 leasehold property in the west doesn’t mean that they have made a wrong choice. Many people grew up in the west and have made it their home. Everywhere else is not a home to them. Just like some of the forumers here prefer to live in the east side. You get the logic? Whether it is a mosquito swamp or lake depends on whether you can appreciate it.

Top up 80-100psf more is a lot of money to some. They have a budget. Everyone has a budget including the rich and famous. My friend, not all are as rich as you. How do you know they have made the wrong choice? You may be smart but not the smartest and nobody is. I’ve been investing in properties for a few decades. I try to share whenever I can and still learning.....

Be humble.

august
08-02-09, 20:07
Funny. You predict & expect the price to fall this year. Well the price has fallen in this case à Caspian. This launch has attracted people to go to the showroom, see see look look and some even bought. You should be happy à it happened and your crystal ball is working although the property px has not reach your dream price (if there is one).

From your posting, I can tell you are a hardworking and smart person to a certain extend. You have done quite a lot of research as well. This world consists of people with different needs and thinking. Just because they go for 99 leasehold property in the west doesn’t mean that they have made a wrong choice. Many people grew up in the west and have made it their home. Everywhere else is not a home to them. Just like some of the forumers here prefer to live in the east side. You get the logic? Whether it is a mosquito swamp or lake depends on whether you can appreciate it.

Top up 80-100psf more is a lot of money to some. They have a budget. Everyone has a budget including the rich and famous. My friend, not all are as rich as you. How do you know they have made the wrong choice? You may be smart but not the smartest and nobody is. I’ve been investing in properties for a few decades. I try to share whenever I can and still learning.....

Be humble.

hmm, i dun see how he is not leh ~ :o

gfoo
08-02-09, 20:23
thanks pn, lesson learnt and apologies if i came across as cocky & overbearing (my school's fault, taught me to take no nonsense and speak my mind :) )

but if my posts can jolt a reader to take a step back and say - 'hey, maybe i should reconsider this 99 year property, its overvalued' - then i'd rather continue to be a pain in the arse. (mind my french, apologies again)

in this market, it is no longer a case about capital appreciation in property. it's all about capital preservation. if i need to buy a property now, what can i buy that will not cause me to lose my hard earned cpf/cash down the road? remember the hume/upp bt timah area when it was red hot earlier? those buyers are still stuck today, even after the 2007 boom.

then look at livia. a 1000sqft apartment was transacting at $720psf. today it's a $100 less. That's $100k paper loss, or an almost 15% fall in valuation in 4 months. sorry lor, $100k is a lot of money to me - i'm poor.

the fact remains that if i take an 80% loan of a $1m property, if the property drops below $800k valuation, the bank has every right to ask me to top up. they may not be doing that now, but anything is possible in the future if things get really bad. it's already affected sentosa cove, and now starting in core central region properties

we also know for a fact that top ups of 99 year leases are getting more and more infrequent, and the government is moving to a 75 year leasehold model. also, the latest lease buyback scheme has put a ceiling on the valuation of leasehold properties - soon from purely hdb, it will crossover to pte property valuations.

Caspian is a con job by heartless developers again. this post best sums it up: http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=43635&postcount=26

i'm pretty dumb actually, and am as poor as the average joe. but the difference is that i do tons of research to back up what i say

Petmail
08-02-09, 20:29
aiyo D1 mai kong, there already kalangkapoh. $250 parking, $600 conservancy. 92 year leasehold, every day you hold it depreciates. now the sail studio $700k already can get. your neighbours for next 3-5 years is the construction bangla, dust and mud everywhere.


Bro.. can intro the studio lobang to me? cos I have a few investor clients going into the sail now to buy and rent out. 1200psf is the best catch now! you solid man can get such good lobangs... I search high and low also cannot get... :banghead: think slowly you can venture into real estate liao loh... faster sms me the number to call okie... I already missed out the #62 2bdrm deal which was sold @ 1500psf I super :mad: liao.. dun wanna lose out again this time round!!!

:)
Pet

focus
08-02-09, 20:30
I agree with gfoo, there is no reason to buy a 99yr old when there's an abundance of FH and 999 around. Unless of course , you are talking about prime location where there is always developers wanting to enbloc to take advantage of the next cycle.

But Jurong? ..uh.. too much space there ...

Anyway, I went down east coast today..
Wow.. I must say Esta looks pretty good but the downside is imagine the crowd when they all moved in.. *Gulp*.. toO BAD most of the view will be blocked by future silversea and aristo.

Anyway, most of the price the agent show me today was $800+ .. Only left a 3000+ PH and that was quoted at $1000???

gfoo
08-02-09, 20:33
Bro.. can intro the studio lobang to me? cos I have a few investor clients going into the sail now to buy and rent out. 1200psf is the best catch now! you solid man can get such good lobangs... I search high and low also cannot get... :banghead: think slowly you can venture into real estate liao loh... sms me the number to call okie... :)

:)
Pet
lol, cannot lah, i am still amateur. saturday's papers, one of the columns - you gotta call. even propguru is listed http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/312335/for-sale-the-sail-marina-bay (this is the asking)

knight frank upcoming auc i think also got 1 from what a contact mentioned

Petmail
08-02-09, 20:38
Another example of overpriced D15.
St Patrick's View enbloc to TG Development in July 2007 for 682psf.
However, 3 months before they first talk about the enbloc, the price is only 546psf (i.e. that's in April 2007, not too far from the peak/mania of 2007). Now they are pricing the units there around 900-1000psf.

So can imagine before 2007 before they start the enbloc talk, what price are they only to command around that area. Low 400+???


hi bro... construction cost leh?

Petmail
08-02-09, 20:51
lol, cannot lah, i am still amateur. saturday's papers, one of the columns - you gotta call. even propguru is listed http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/312335/for-sale-the-sail-marina-bay (this is the asking)

knight frank upcoming auc i think also got 1 from what a contact mentioned

I had been calling everyday but to be honest.. most of time are dummy ads... :sleep: so kinda sianz... i honestly do not mind co-broking with them as long as they really have such listing but mostly to disappointment.. but i come across some good deals by owners for 1500psf.. unfortunately its low floors..

Anyway.. if you keen to share with someone else and buy a piece of land in d15 siglap area then rebuild as brand new semi-d, let me know cos I have a piece of bungalow size lad that can sub-divide and build 2 semi-d. if not worst to worst I can check with my another client to see if he would like to share buy with you or not...

:)
Pet

gfoo
08-02-09, 20:53
I had been calling everyday but to be honest.. most of time are dummy ads... :sleep: so kinda sianz... i honestly do not mind co-broking with them as long as they really have such listing but mostly to disappointment.. but i come across some good deals by owners for 1500psf.. unfortunately its low floors..

Anyway.. if you keen to share with someone else and buy a piece of land in d15 siglap area then rebuild as brand new semi-d, let me know cos I have a piece of bungalow size lad that can sub-divide and build 2 semi-d. if not worst to worst I can check with my another client to see if he would like to share buy with you or not...

:)
Pet

eh i dun mind. i went to figaro today to look at one single storey 3000sqft land area house, v v cheap. you know my cash position and budget lah, lemme know if got lobang

noblebaby
08-02-09, 20:53
lol, cannot lah, i am still amateur. saturday's papers, one of the columns - you gotta call. even propguru is listed http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/312335/for-sale-the-sail-marina-bay (this is the asking)

knight frank upcoming auc i think also got 1 from what a contact mentioned

gfoo and other expert:

Condo at west or west cost good to stay?

those like The Infiniti, Bottania, Carabelle, the Stellar, the Parc Condo. All FH. Which one is better? good investment???

I'm thinking to get one to stay, but will wait until 4Q09 to make decision. I'm looking for new condo, size about 1100sft with 3 rms, FH, budget $750k+.

Pls. help help to comment, thanks!

gfoo
08-02-09, 20:57
gfoo and other expert:

Condo at west or west cost good to stay?

those like The Infiniti, Bottania, Carabelle, the Stellar, the Parc Condo. All FH. Which one is better? good investment???

I'm thinking to get one to stay, but will wait until 4Q09 to make decision. I'm looking for new condo, size about 1100sft with 3 rms, FH, budget $750k+.

Pls. help help to comment, thanks!
personally, i think the current asking of $5xxpsf for west coast area is not too bad, better still if can get mid to high $4XX. the only issue i have is that there is only 1 road leading to infiniti and the others, so might get v v jammed up. try not to get anything facing the highway, v v noisy dey

case in point, i would rather get infiniti at $5xx than caspian at $5xx

if you gonna wait till 4Q, then start shopping in 3Q, not now. price might be quite far from today's prices, which i think are still high, but more manageable

noblebaby
08-02-09, 21:05
personally, i think the current asking of $5xxpsf for west coast area is not too bad, better still if can get mid to high $4XX. the only issue i have is that there is only 1 road leading to infiniti and the others, so might get v v jammed up. try not to get anything facing the highway, v v noisy dey

case in point, i would rather get infiniti at $5xx than caspian at $5xx

if you gonna wait till 4Q, then start shopping in 3Q, not now. price might be quite far from today's prices, which i think are still high, but more manageable

thanks gfoo.

beside west area, which area do you think i should look around that may fit my above criteria?

I'm looking some area with less traffic, quiet, not far from the public transport, best is far from HDB coz I feel that condo surrounded by HDB is not that exclusive.... :o

myxzyden
08-02-09, 21:08
can I check with you all the launching price of OA/Esta?

Was it 650psf for the lowest floor? wht's the per floor higher difference?

gfoo
08-02-09, 21:09
thanks gfoo.

beside west area, which area do you think i should look around that may fit my above criteria?

I'm looking some area with less traffic, quiet, not far from the public transport, best is far from HDB coz I feel that condo surrounded by HDB is not that exclusive.... :o

lol what's your budget quantum wise? i would love to say grange road but i better tiam tiam, wait pple say i not humble, go corner suck thumb and cry.

wah lao, i am starting to sound like an agent - shudder. :tongue3:

noblebaby
08-02-09, 21:09
personally, i think the current asking of $5xxpsf for west coast area is not too bad, better still if can get mid to high $4XX. the only issue i have is that there is only 1 road leading to infiniti and the others, so might get v v jammed up. try not to get anything facing the highway, v v noisy dey

case in point, i would rather get infiniti at $5xx than caspian at $5xx

if you gonna wait till 4Q, then start shopping in 3Q, not now. price might be quite far from today's prices, which i think are still high, but more manageable

price at $5xx now? I thought still $6xx or $7xx???

how about the air condition at west? any issue?

thanks

noblebaby
08-02-09, 21:10
lol what's your budget quantum wise? i would love to say grange road but i better tiam tiam, wait pple say i not humble, go corner suck thumb and cry.

wah lao, i am starting to sound like an agent - shudder. :tongue3:

my budget is $750k lor... unit size 1100sft with 3 rms.

Petmail
08-02-09, 21:10
gfoo and other expert:

Condo at west or west cost good to stay?

those like The Infiniti, Bottania, Carabelle, the Stellar, the Parc Condo. All FH. Which one is better? good investment???

I'm thinking to get one to stay, but will wait until 4Q09 to make decision. I'm looking for new condo, size about 1100sft with 3 rms, FH, budget $750k+.

Pls. help help to comment, thanks!

West coast sounds more exclusive... you might wanna try looking at botainia & carabelle.. both this year should TOP too..

:)
Pet

Petmail
08-02-09, 21:16
my budget is $750k lor... unit size 1100sft with 3 rms.

this budget is within guage...

:)
Pet

gfoo
08-02-09, 21:16
West coast sounds more exclusive... you might wanna try looking at botainia & carabelle.. both this year should TOP too..

:)
Pet
lol. maybe i should start a collective. each one ante up $1m, we use 10000 sq ft to go build 10 apartments of 2000sqft each, the rest we build a really large swimming pool and gym on the remainder 10000sqft (1.4 plot ratio)

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/278524/for-sale-windsor-park-estate

noblebaby
08-02-09, 21:22
lol. maybe i should start a collective. each one ante up $1m, we use 10000 sq ft to go build 10 apartments of 2000sqft each, the rest we build a really large swimming pool and gym on the remainder 10000sqft (1.4 plot ratio)

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/278524/for-sale-windsor-park-estate

expert:

So where is the BEST & NEW FH Condo in singapore that fit my budget of $750K, with unit size 1100sft+ with 3rms???

Petmail
08-02-09, 21:24
lol. maybe i should start a collective. each one ante up $1m, we use 10000 sq ft to go build 10 apartments of 2000sqft each, the rest we build a really large swimming pool and gym on the remainder 10000sqft (1.4 plot ratio)

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/278524/for-sale-windsor-park-estate


dun forget to factor in the dc charges, construction cost, etc... these are the things that were absent in your psf or ppr calculation when you were making comparison on the enbloc price by developer and new launch prices... actually enbloc and developing is not a simple task.. gfa to be considered, set backs, land survey, cost of admin, ura admin charges etc... :doh:

:)
Pet

gfoo
08-02-09, 21:25
expert:

So where is the BEST & NEW FH Condo in singapore that fit my budget of $750K, with unit size 1100sft+ with 3rms???

lol i am not an expert, petmail is.

since you are waiting till 4Q, i would say one amber. all private all around, no hdb flats. much cleaner air than the west (except for haze season)

Petmail
08-02-09, 21:26
expert:

So where is the BEST & NEW FH Condo in singapore that fit my budget of $750K, with unit size 1100sft+ with 3rms???

buy the walk up unit i am marketing currently as its @ pretty good price.. 1916sqft... haha..

:)
Pet

Petmail
08-02-09, 21:27
lol i am not an expert, petmail is.

since you are waiting till 4Q, i would say one amber. all private all around, no hdb flats. much cleaner air than the west (except for haze season)


no lah.. am still green in the industry leh.. still plenty of rooms for improvement.. hehe!!

:)
Pet

noblebaby
08-02-09, 21:27
lol i am not an expert, petmail is.

since you are waiting till 4Q, i would say one amber. all private all around, no hdb flats. much cleaner air than the west (except for haze season)

Yes, I like one amber & the Esta too... but not sure the price can fall into my budget or not. hope so by year end.

noblebaby
08-02-09, 21:29
buy the walk up unit i am marketing currently as its @ pretty good price.. 1916sqft... haha..

:)
Pet

Pet:

are you an agent? what are you marketing? got lobang?

Petmail
08-02-09, 21:30
Pet:

are you an agent? what are you marketing? got lobang?


I am.. drop me a call @ 82818888 when you are free.. so free that my consultation also free... hehe...

:)
Pet

ps16
08-02-09, 21:31
personally, i think the current asking of $5xxpsf for west coast area is not too bad, better still if can get mid to high $4XX. the only issue i have is that there is only 1 road leading to infiniti and the others, so might get v v jammed up. try not to get anything facing the highway, v v noisy dey

case in point, i would rather get infiniti at $5xx than caspian at $5xx

if you gonna wait till 4Q, then start shopping in 3Q, not now. price might be quite far from today's prices, which i think are still high, but more manageable

What I don't understand about that area is the price differences between the different projects. Infiniti is the cheapest at $500+/sq ft but Botannia and Carabelle are about $100 more. Anybody can advice?

noblebaby
08-02-09, 21:31
I dont understand one thing...

how come the 99 LH The QUARTZ is still selling at high price???

gfoo
08-02-09, 21:33
I dont understand one thing...

how come the 99 LH The QUARTZ is still selling at high price???

you're not the only one. i also don't understand.

even in d15, one amber is $800psf and aalto is $2200psf, and they are 300m apart from each other separated by a road.

Petmail
08-02-09, 21:34
I dont understand one thing...

how come the 99 LH The QUARTZ is still selling at high price???


there's a cost for everything.. location plays an important thing as well... but of course lastly will be the developer's asking..

:)
Pet

noblebaby
08-02-09, 21:34
I am.. drop me a call @ 82818888 when you are free.. so free that my consultation also free... hehe...

:)
Pet

ok, will call you during 3Q, lol.... very seriously in buying to stay and will get one by year end no matter what is the price range during that time.

so you remember my budget is $750k or less. lol... only consider New + FH condo. either west or east cost area.

Petmail
08-02-09, 21:35
ok, will call you during 3Q, lol.... very seriously in buying to stay and will get one by year end no matter what is the price range during that time.

so you remember my budget is $750k or less. lol... only consider New + FH condo. either west or east cost area.


*SIAM* lolz

:)
Pet

gfoo
08-02-09, 21:37
ok, will call you during 3Q, lol.... very seriously in buying to stay and will get one by year end no matter what is the price range during that time.

so you remember my budget is $750k or less. lol... only consider New + FH condo. either west or east cost area.

if i were you, do some research and expand your horizon to 1-2 year old properties, not necessarily new. condos launched in 2004/2005 and completed 2007/8 are much more flexible price wise than those launched 2006/2007.

Petmail
08-02-09, 21:39
What I don't understand about that area is the price differences between the different projects. Infiniti is the cheapest at $500+/sq ft but Botannia and Carabelle are about $100 more. Anybody can advice?


cos its right beside AYE which is pretty close...

:)
Pet

noblebaby
08-02-09, 21:41
if i were you, do some research and expand your horizon to 1-2 year old properties, not necessarily new. condos launched in 2004/2005 and completed 2007/8 are much more flexible price wise than those launched 2006/2007.

ok, noted

so far i only look see look see those property website, and some time visit show flat or go see with agent... felt like some agent know nothing... need to get some experienced agents. lol.

Petmail
08-02-09, 21:42
ok, will call you during 3Q, lol.... very seriously in buying to stay and will get one by year end no matter what is the price range during that time.

so you remember my budget is $750k or less. lol... only consider New + FH condo. either west or east cost area.


when you call me you need to remind me okie? cos I old man memory not too good.. I scare I remember wrongly kena scold by you... Lolz

:)
Pet

Petmail
08-02-09, 21:43
ok, noted

so far i only look see look see those property website, and some time visit show flat or go see with agent... felt like some agent know nothing... need to get some experienced agents. lol.


then like that I lagi not qualify liao... cos I still green bird... :(

:)
Pet

ps16
08-02-09, 21:45
cos its right beside AYE which is pretty close...

:)
Pet

But Carabelle is also next to AYE....anyway, I appreciate your advice and will not talk too much on this since this is not the correct thread to discuss a D5 property.

noblebaby
08-02-09, 21:45
when you call me you need to remind me okie? cos I old man memory not too good.. I scare I remember wrongly kena scold by you... Lolz

:)
Pet

don't worry, can always meet on this forum... let me know if got good deal... now still don't want to engage agent... coz every time ask them bring me look see condo, but at the end couldn't offer good price... very pai seh la... like wasting their time... but will be very serious when come to 3Q/4Q. coz need to reno and move in by mid-2010. lol :D

Petmail
08-02-09, 21:47
But Carabelle is also next to AYE....anyway, I appreciate your advice and will not talk too much on this since this is not the correct thread to discuss a D5 property.

its okie... comparing the site layout, infiniti has got more exposure facing towards the AYE rather than carabelle. most of their living rooms are facing AYE & pools... by the way, this is just my two cents opinion.. it could be developer's own decision though...

:)
Pet

Petmail
08-02-09, 21:51
don't worry, can always meet on this forum... let me know if got good deal... now still don't want to engage agent... coz every time ask them bring me look see condo, but at the end couldn't offer good price... very pai seh la... like wasting their time... but will be very serious when come to 3Q/4Q. coz need to reno and move in by mid-2010. lol :D


by the way, I am in the midst of some cheque collection from my clients who are very keen to make offer for the tanjong rhu units... those who are keen can just drop me a line.. once i collect enough cheques will do a presentation altogether to submit to developer for acceptance.

:)
Pet

jc
09-02-09, 00:41
I agree with gfoo, there is no reason to buy a 99yr old when there's an abundance of FH and 999 around. Unless of course , you are talking about prime location where there is always developers wanting to enbloc to take advantage of the next cycle.

But Jurong? ..uh.. too much space there ...

Anyway, I went down east coast today..
Wow.. I must say Esta looks pretty good but the downside is imagine the crowd when they all moved in.. *Gulp*.. toO BAD most of the view will be blocked by future silversea and aristo.

Anyway, most of the price the agent show me today was $800+ .. Only left a 3000+ PH and that was quoted at $1000???

Esta is not a project abt having sea view. Pls choose projects in Meyer Rd or Cote D Azur or further down Costa Del Sol if this is your preference.

I don't quite understand what is the downside when all move in. It will be similar to all that have moved into Cote D Azur and in future likewise all moving into One Amber. What do u expect? GCB living? Consider Aalto...

jc
09-02-09, 00:51
ok this is a very valid and interesting point and i want to learn. Can you share more - the thinking/rationale behind this.

i've always worked on the plot ratio basis of calculations, thus never really bothered about condo or apartment status.

please share (before i make a bobo and put deposit down on balmoral area). thanks!

Hi bro tks for interest... which portion u r keen on :)

noblebaby
09-02-09, 09:47
Esta is not a project abt having sea view. Pls choose projects in Meyer Rd or Cote D Azur or further down Costa Del Sol if this is your preference.

I don't quite understand what is the downside when all move in. It will be similar to all that have moved into Cote D Azur and in future likewise all moving into One Amber. What do u expect? GCB living? Consider Aalto...

what is GCB?

East Lover
09-02-09, 09:58
what is GCB?
Good Class Bungalow.

East Lover
09-02-09, 10:02
Esta is not a project abt having sea view. Pls choose projects in Meyer Rd or Cote D Azur or further down Costa Del Sol if this is your preference.

I don't quite understand what is the downside when all move in. It will be similar to all that have moved into Cote D Azur and in future likewise all moving into One Amber. What do u expect? GCB living? Consider Aalto...

I like sea view, also don't mind resevior view. But it seems all those type of good view units have to face ECP or busy roads, sure have a lot of road noise pollution.

From feng shui point of view, Heavy traffic = bad feng shui? Any expert here?

East Lover
09-02-09, 10:09
sigh, just read in BT that caspian has sold very well. $600psf for a 99 year, cfm kena block by another condo down the road, nowhere close to the 'lake', and within smelling distance to heavy industry smog.

just as in politics, the sheep continue to hold out their wrists to developers saying - 'come, bleed us dry'

idiots
Business Times - 09 Feb 2009


Over 300 Caspian units sold, price up 3.5%

By KALPANA RASHIWALA

FRASERS Centrepoint yesterday continued to chalk up steady sales at its Caspian condo even after it raised prices by about $20 per square foot, or about 3.5 per cent.

It sold over 100 units yesterday and by last night, total sales had crossed 300 units - a remarkable result considering the current market gloom.
...
;)

East Lover
09-02-09, 10:11
http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/
Posted by luxuryasiahome on February 9, 2009

SOME uncompleted residential properties in the prime districts have changed hands recently at prices below that which they were sold initially.
These may be merely a handful, but it reflects the extent of the damage wrought by the economic downturn on the high-end market, analysts say.
According to data compiled by consultancy Savills Singapore, sub-sale prices at some popular projects are edging close to the average prices sold by the developers.
At several yet-to-be-completed prime projects, many units were even done recently at prices below their launch average.
The data is culled from recent sub-sale deals done at 39 prime non-landed residential projects that were launched from 2005 to 2008. They are located in the core central districts of 1, 4, 9, 10 and 11.
A transaction is known as a sub-sale when a buyer acquires a property and sells it before its completion.
The conclusion: Recent transacted prices for projects that were launched in 2005 remain well above their average launch levels.
But the situation is not so sanguine for buyers of properties that were launched for sale in 2006 or later.
Based on caveats lodged, units at 11 developments that were launched between 2006 and 2008 have come down to below their launch levels.
These include projects that saw overwhelming interest during their launch, such as the 175-unit The Sixth Avenue Residences (http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/the-sixth-avenue-residences/) in Sixth Avenue.
Another project, Duchess Residences (http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/duchess-residences-duchess-ave/) in Bukit Timah, attracted numerous buyers during its 2007 launch, with units crossing the $2,000 per square foot (psf) mark. It was the first time homes in the area crossed the $2,000 psf mark in nearly 10 years.
But deals done in the third quarter of last year were well below that level.
A 1,604 sq ft home at Duchess Residences was recently advertised for sale at $1,500 psf.
Explaining the low-priced deals, Mr Steven Ming, the Savills Singapore director for investment sales and prestige homes, said: ‘There will always be a few who are forced to sell in a downturn.
‘The market is likely to remain choppy in the next quarter or two but at this point in time, there are still a lot of investors who are holding out or have the capacity to hold out for better sale prices.’
Those who have missed out on the bull run are also waiting on the sidelines, he added.
At a few popular projects, prices appear to be edging closer to their launch levels or have fallen substantially from the peak.
Two most recent caveats lodged for deals at Park Infinia at Wee Nam (http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2006/08/06/park-infinia-wee-nam/) in Lincoln Road were at $1,180 psf for a 969sqft unit and $1,061 psf for a 1,442sq ft unit, compared with prices of up to $1,500 to $1,600 psf last year.
All three caveats lodged last month for One Amber (http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2007/05/22/one-amber/) near Amber Road were at $761 psf to $816 psf. This compares with its average launch price of $725 to $730 psf in 2006.
To get to the few buyers these days, sellers appear to be getting more aggressive.
In recent classifieds, there were sellers for The Sea View (http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/the-sea-view/) at Amber Road at $1,030 psf, compared with prices of up to $1,500 psf done last year.
Last Wednesday, one unit at One Shenton (http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2007/01/01/one-shenton-shenton-way/) in Shenton Way was advertised at $888 psf, compared with its launch price of between $1,500 to more than $2,000 psf in early 2007.
Some luxury condos offered steeper discounts.
A unit at The Orchard Residences (http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/the-orchard-residences/) was advertised for $2,600 psf while a unit at Ardmore II (http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2006/09/28/ardmore-ii-ardmore-park-drive/) was put up for sale at $1,750 psf. The Orchard Residences and Ardmore II had sold for an average of $3,301 psf and $2,271 psf respectively at their launch.
Source : Straits Times - 9 Feb 2009

proud owner
09-02-09, 10:15
Business Times - 09 Feb 2009


Over 300 Caspian units sold, price up 3.5%

By KALPANA RASHIWALA

FRASERS Centrepoint yesterday continued to chalk up steady sales at its Caspian condo even after it raised prices by about $20 per square foot, or about 3.5 per cent.

It sold over 100 units yesterday and by last night, total sales had crossed 300 units - a remarkable result considering the current market gloom.
...
;)

3 yrs ago ... i made a terible mistake ... but i learned my lesson

i was offered a unit, FH, 3600 sqft with seaview ..but 20 yrs old ... perched on a hill ..front face sea ..back hill (forest) ... ...

i passed on it as it was 1.4 mio ... failed to see that its only 400 psf ..

1.5 yrs on .. it was 2.8 mio ..even until today ...still 2.8 mio at 770 psf ...

at that time 400 psf is not much higher than a HDB at marine parade ...


now i go for PSF ...

600 psf for 99 yr ??? remmeber that 99 yr project near stadium ..old airport road area ? cant remmeber the name ... sold out at close to 1000 psf ... crazy ...

proud owner
09-02-09, 10:17
I like sea view, also don't mind resevior view. But it seems all those type of good view units have to face ECP or busy roads, sure have a lot of road noise pollution.

From feng shui point of view, Heavy traffic = bad feng shui? Any expert here?

as long as you and family feel good in it ..really doesnt matter ..i think ..

hayata1972
09-02-09, 10:33
http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/
Posted by luxuryasiahome on February 9, 2009

SOME uncompleted residential properties in the prime districts have changed hands recently at prices below that which they were sold initially.
These may be merely a handful, but it reflects the extent of the damage wrought by the economic downturn on the high-end market, analysts say.
According to data compiled by consultancy Savills Singapore, sub-sale prices at some popular projects are edging close to the average prices sold by the developers.
At several yet-to-be-completed prime projects, many units were even done recently at prices below their launch average.
The data is culled from recent sub-sale deals done at 39 prime non-landed residential projects that were launched from 2005 to 2008. They are located in the core central districts of 1, 4, 9, 10 and 11.
A transaction is known as a sub-sale when a buyer acquires a property and sells it before its completion.
The conclusion: Recent transacted prices for projects that were launched in 2005 remain well above their average launch levels.
But the situation is not so sanguine for buyers of properties that were launched for sale in 2006 or later.
Based on caveats lodged, units at 11 developments that were launched between 2006 and 2008 have come down to below their launch levels.
These include projects that saw overwhelming interest during their launch, such as the 175-unit The Sixth Avenue Residences (http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/the-sixth-avenue-residences/) in Sixth Avenue.
Another project, Duchess Residences (http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/duchess-residences-duchess-ave/) in Bukit Timah, attracted numerous buyers during its 2007 launch, with units crossing the $2,000 per square foot (psf) mark. It was the first time homes in the area crossed the $2,000 psf mark in nearly 10 years.
But deals done in the third quarter of last year were well below that level.
A 1,604 sq ft home at Duchess Residences was recently advertised for sale at $1,500 psf.
Explaining the low-priced deals, Mr Steven Ming, the Savills Singapore director for investment sales and prestige homes, said: ‘There will always be a few who are forced to sell in a downturn.
‘The market is likely to remain choppy in the next quarter or two but at this point in time, there are still a lot of investors who are holding out or have the capacity to hold out for better sale prices.’
Those who have missed out on the bull run are also waiting on the sidelines, he added.
At a few popular projects, prices appear to be edging closer to their launch levels or have fallen substantially from the peak.
Two most recent caveats lodged for deals at Park Infinia at Wee Nam (http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2006/08/06/park-infinia-wee-nam/) in Lincoln Road were at $1,180 psf for a 969sqft unit and $1,061 psf for a 1,442sq ft unit, compared with prices of up to $1,500 to $1,600 psf last year.
All three caveats lodged last month for One Amber (http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2007/05/22/one-amber/) near Amber Road were at $761 psf to $816 psf. This compares with its average launch price of $725 to $730 psf in 2006.
To get to the few buyers these days, sellers appear to be getting more aggressive.
In recent classifieds, there were sellers for The Sea View (http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/the-sea-view/) at Amber Road at $1,030 psf, compared with prices of up to $1,500 psf done last year.
Last Wednesday, one unit at One Shenton (http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2007/01/01/one-shenton-shenton-way/) in Shenton Way was advertised at $888 psf:scared-1: , compared with its launch price of between $1,500 to more than $2,000 psf in early 2007.
Some luxury condos offered steeper discounts.
A unit at The Orchard Residences (http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/the-orchard-residences/) was advertised for $2,600 psf while a unit at Ardmore II (http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2006/09/28/ardmore-ii-ardmore-park-drive/) was put up for sale at $1,750 psf. The Orchard Residences and Ardmore II had sold for an average of $3,301 psf and $2,271 psf respectively at their launch.
Source : Straits Times - 9 Feb 2009

This i gotta see!!!!

gfoo
09-02-09, 11:04
3 yrs ago ... i made a terible mistake ... but i learned my lesson

i was offered a unit, FH, 3600 sqft with seaview ..but 20 yrs old ... perched on a hill ..front face sea ..back hill (forest) ... ...

i passed on it as it was 1.4 mio ... failed to see that its only 400 psf ..

1.5 yrs on .. it was 2.8 mio ..even until today ...still 2.8 mio at 770 psf ...

at that time 400 psf is not much higher than a HDB at marine parade ...


now i go for PSF ...

600 psf for 99 yr ??? remmeber that 99 yr project near stadium ..old airport road area ? cant remmeber the name ... sold out at close to 1000 psf ... crazy ...

dakota residences. not sold out, still many yet to sell, and prices are dropping there tremendously too - especially now sports hub is delayed, thus the only amenities dakota residents will have is that longkang in the back and kallang macs for now

gfoo
09-02-09, 11:06
Explaining the low-priced deals, Mr Steven Ming, the Savills Singapore director for investment sales and prestige homes, said: ‘There will always be a few who are forced to sell in a downturn.
‘The market is likely to remain choppy in the next quarter or two but at this point in time, there are still a lot of investors who are holding out or have the capacity to hold out for better sale prices.’
Those who have missed out on the bull run are also waiting on the sidelines, he added.

that's what they have been saying in jan, dec, nov, oct ..... lol

wait a bit, the best is yet to be muakakakakakaka

proud owner
09-02-09, 11:08
dakota residences. not sold out, still many yet to sell, and prices are dropping there tremendously too - especially now sports hub is delayed, thus the only amenities dakota residents will have is that longkang in the back and kallang macs for now

ahhahaha

just like many many years ago ...i remember when all rushing to buy bishan .. i recalled reading this article a malay woman who paid almost 900 k for a resale unit ... "i really love it, the moment i walked in i know i must have it '

i wonder after 10 yrs does she still love it ...knowing she hit top price ...

gfoo
09-02-09, 11:14
ahhahaha

just like many many years ago ...i remember when all rushing to buy bishan .. i recalled reading this article a malay woman who paid almost 900 k for a resale unit ... "i really love it, the moment i walked in i know i must have it '

i wonder after 10 yrs does she still love it ...knowing she hit top price ...
you're kidding.....900k for a HDB or private?
wah lau how big is the unit? she bought one floor combined into one unit ah with private HDB lift access?

proud owner
09-02-09, 11:16
you're kidding.....900k for a HDB or private?
wah lau how big is the unit? she bought one floor combined into one unit ah with private HDB lift access?

it was a maisonette in bishan ....

gfoo
09-02-09, 11:17
Hi bro tks for interest... which portion u r keen on :)

the part about the pros and cons of benchmarking an areas price on apts vs condos.

to me i thought they were interlinked - ie there is a slight premium no doubt on condo status, but then again, plot ratio also factors in.

ie - if an apartment unit plot ratio is 1.4, and a condo plot ratio is 1.4, of course the apartment is worth far less than the condo.

but what if the condo plot ratio is 2.8? ie twice the number of resident share the same area of land in strata.

gfoo
09-02-09, 11:21
it was a maisonette in bishan ....

siao. i was considering a maisonette in toh guan in 2004 for my marital home - only $250k nia, facing park and all landed throughout in a low density area.

when it comes to property, many singaporeans are less rational than when supermarket shopping. at least when you go carrefour buy chicken, just because its branded 'Tyson' with nice big posters dun mean you'll actually pay 50% more than house brand.

look at centris - great PR agency, nice ad agency, great sales - hapless sardined residents down the road.

august
09-02-09, 16:01
thanks pn, lesson learnt and apologies if i came across as cocky & overbearing (my school's fault, taught me to take no nonsense and speak my mind :) )

but if my posts can jolt a reader to take a step back and say - 'hey, maybe i should reconsider this 99 year property, its overvalued' - then i'd rather continue to be a pain in the arse. (mind my french, apologies again)

in this market, it is no longer a case about capital appreciation in property. it's all about capital preservation. if i need to buy a property now, what can i buy that will not cause me to lose my hard earned cpf/cash down the road? remember the hume/upp bt timah area when it was red hot earlier? those buyers are still stuck today, even after the 2007 boom.

then look at livia. a 1000sqft apartment was transacting at $720psf. today it's a $100 less. That's $100k paper loss, or an almost 15% fall in valuation in 4 months. sorry lor, $100k is a lot of money to me - i'm poor.

the fact remains that if i take an 80% loan of a $1m property, if the property drops below $800k valuation, the bank has every right to ask me to top up. they may not be doing that now, but anything is possible in the future if things get really bad. it's already affected sentosa cove, and now starting in core central region properties

we also know for a fact that top ups of 99 year leases are getting more and more infrequent, and the government is moving to a 75 year leasehold model. also, the latest lease buyback scheme has put a ceiling on the valuation of leasehold properties - soon from purely hdb, it will crossover to pte property valuations.

Caspian is a con job by heartless developers again. this post best sums it up: http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=43635&postcount=26

i'm pretty dumb actually, and am as poor as the average joe. but the difference is that i do tons of research to back up what i say


went to check out the caspian during lunch
even though is monday wah the showroom is very packed., many uncles aunties or heartlander types.. car park not full but think many ppl came by mrt
project is definitely targeted at the masses and makes no apologies about it
agents hint hint will raise price soon due to hot demand haha ~

gfoo
09-02-09, 17:28
If it's true as per other thread that a fund is offloading 100 units of rivergate at 700psf, let's say they sell at launch price of 900psf lah - this will completely change te dynamics of the resale market and might spark a stampede of other big boys. Just like in e stock market, its the big boys who make the market, not one or two indovidual holders.

I wd wait and see a few weeks to see how things pan out just tobe kiasu

Petmail
09-02-09, 19:42
the part about the pros and cons of benchmarking an areas price on apts vs condos.

to me i thought they were interlinked - ie there is a slight premium no doubt on condo status, but then again, plot ratio also factors in.

ie - if an apartment unit plot ratio is 1.4, and a condo plot ratio is 1.4, of course the apartment is worth far less than the condo.

but what if the condo plot ratio is 2.8? ie twice the number of resident share the same area of land in strata.

value depends not just by the plot ratio but also by the building height permissible, site plans, set backs, GFA, etc before you will know if this plot is a better plot than a apartment plot. you could be very surprise that value of apartment plot of 1.4 could be even much more valuable than a plot of 2.8 sometimes due to the shape and size, etc.

:)
Pet

Petmail
09-02-09, 19:45
If it's true as per other thread that a fund is offloading 100 units of rivergate at 700psf, let's say they sell at launch price of 900psf lah - this will completely change te dynamics of the resale market and might spark a stampede of other big boys. Just like in e stock market, its the big boys who make the market, not one or two indovidual holders.

I wd wait and see a few weeks to see how things pan out just tobe kiasu

even if there are such lobangs in the market.. it wouldnt come to any of us as very likely those investors would have sold the units to their fellow friends of some other companies keen in investing... the company who had been approached will also be able to work out and know for sure this is definitely a deal not to be missed for sure...

:)
Pet

kal
09-02-09, 21:04
I know there's another fund management holding more than 50units in a prime D09 condo tat going to TOP soon too. But no news of lelong leh... hehe

blackswan
10-02-09, 00:03
Not forgetting that these big boys are in for property investment and so its not so much difference than from other type of investment unlike us whom mostly view it a a place to stay.

To these investment funds, their money travel around the world to look for good investment deal. If certain projects in RV are selling for 700 psf, yes it might be cheap to us but not necessary to them as they also look at bargains in HK, UK, US and Aussie (not forgetting the plunge in Pound and Aussie recently). So cutting a portion of their investment at 700 psf is just like cutting lost on their stocks portfolio or currency trading. They will take the money and switch to other places.

That's one factor that I feel people always forget when they mention that "..........prices already come down a lot ". We are just one of the place for investors to park their money to grow. Its always a relative thing. We might think you are cheap but we are actually more expensive than our peers. 2 cents worth.

ps16
10-02-09, 07:54
Well said Black Swan.....these foreign investors are inflating up our property market. We buy to stay but they buy to make money.

jc
10-02-09, 11:45
the part about the pros and cons of benchmarking an areas price on apts vs condos.

to me i thought they were interlinked - ie there is a slight premium no doubt on condo status, but then again, plot ratio also factors in.

ie - if an apartment unit plot ratio is 1.4, and a condo plot ratio is 1.4, of course the apartment is worth far less than the condo.

but what if the condo plot ratio is 2.8? ie twice the number of resident share the same area of land in strata.

There are many points to consider if the site is worth en-bloc which some of the points are mentioned by bro Pet like building height permissible, site plans, set backs, GFA, etc.

However, in general due to the smaller size of land apt has, n unless the plot ratio is revised upwards for apt, condo that has relatively bigger land area will be more attractive for enbloc ceteris paribus. Assuming b4 the en-bloc is materialised, other factors like min facilities, high maintenance fees eating into rental return, and the possibility of coughing up more $$ when the place gets old for major repair work b4 en-bloc is successful is valid for concern for small project.

The lack of liquidity due to small project and hence affecting the bid ask spread, like stocks, will affect the selling px hence such project deserve to trade at a discount. But it will be subjective as to how much discount translate into fair value.

Good luck on your balmoral hunt :)

East Lover
23-03-09, 11:32
So far most of the transactions are done at 800/900 psf level, the less ppl voted category....

-----------------------------
ONE AMBER 1,360,800 1,701 800 Mar-09
ONE AMBER 1,121,400 1,335 840 Mar-09
THE ESTA 1,280,000 1,399 915 Mar-09
ONE AMBER 906,480 1,259 720 Feb-09
THE ESTA 1,593,000 1,593 1,000 Feb-09
THE ESTA 1,326,850 1,561 850 Feb-09
ONE AMBER 1,000,000 1,302 768 Feb-09
THE ESTA 1,475,000 1,593 926 Feb-09
THE ESTA 1,280,000 1,464 874 Feb-09
THE ESTA 1,264,410 1,561 810 Feb-09
ONE AMBER 998,000 1,259 792 Feb-09
THE ESTA 1,261,125 1,475 855 Feb-09
ONE AMBER 1,044,970 1,259 830 Feb-09
THE ESTA 1,157,520 1,378 840 Feb-09

latour
27-03-09, 22:44
Still wait and see...