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Singaporean
23-06-09, 15:15
hello everyone

anyone also got a unit here like me? looks completed to me so TOP should be close? looking forward to it.

DKSG
23-06-09, 21:20
TOP by mid July.

Singaporean
24-06-09, 11:59
means we should get keys during end july? can share how you found out?

DKSG
25-06-09, 00:12
means we should get keys during end july? can share how you found out?

Developer write letter to owners. Telling them to get bank loan if on DPS. The date given is June/July.

Singaporean
25-06-09, 16:36
oh, received that one too. just wondering if there was any update.

this forum doesn't look like it has many pavilion 11 owners? where are the owners? is there another forum somewhere?

DKSG
25-06-09, 22:28
Of the 180 units, I think at least 60 are for investors.
So they wont be here to claim as owners.

Anyway, prices moving up super fast for P11.

The last I gathered (earlier today), high floor 2BR is going for 1,200 psf!

Singaporean
26-06-09, 15:12
$1200! nice ... from owner's perspective...but is that a seller's offer or buyer's offer? better if it is a buyer's offer.:)

hmmm
29-06-09, 23:05
If $1,200psf for the two bedder, then rental yield is only 3%. That doesn't look like good rental investment :doh:

DKSG
29-06-09, 23:43
I dont think people are thinking of holding investments for decades.

If 99 LH Soleil is now going for $1,400 psf higher floor, $1,200 FH P11 higher floor sounds like a decent deal.

Interest rate is very low now and with all the liquidity all goverment is pumping into the economy, it is likely to stay low for a while.

I am quite confident, if you get a high floor unblock unit at $1,200 psf. Within a year, can sell for at least $1,300 psf.

But the choice is yours la.

jc
01-07-09, 00:30
I dont think people are thinking of holding investments for decades.

If 99 LH Soleil is now going for $1,400 psf higher floor, $1,200 FH P11 higher floor sounds like a decent deal.

Interest rate is very low now and with all the liquidity all goverment is pumping into the economy, it is likely to stay low for a while.

I am quite confident, if you get a high floor unblock unit at $1,200 psf. Within a year, can sell for at least $1,300 psf.

But the choice is yours la.

P11 is more Balestier compared to Soleil n is in the least prestigious end of D11. If one reckon $1.2k psf is a good deal for Balestier, then i would pay $1.3k psf for Amber area any time :)

Newbie Homebuyer
02-07-09, 19:00
Has P11 TOP-ed?

DKSG
03-07-09, 20:58
You guys should go up and take a look at the view of P11.
Esp units abv 21st storey.
Then u will know why it certainly command better pricing then the crowded Amber area.

Anyway, Amber pricing is also going past 1,000 psf already.

From high floor P11, you can see all the way up to the CBD area!

TOP will be 3rd week of July.

Singaporean
04-07-09, 19:04
you mean they allow people to go up even though its has not TOP?

DKSG
04-07-09, 22:07
Of course when they TOP in 2-3 weeks' time.

I just called up this agent with a unit abv 25th floor stack 02.

Asking price is $1,250 psf (slightly negotiable).

:scared-1::scared-5::scared-1::scared-5::scared-1::scared-5::scared-1::scared-5:

Newbie Homebuyer
06-07-09, 10:45
Of course when they TOP in 2-3 weeks' time.

I just called up this agent with a unit abv 25th floor stack 02.

Asking price is $1,250 psf (slightly negotiable).

:scared-1::scared-5::scared-1::scared-5::scared-1::scared-5::scared-1::scared-5:


Oh, I thought anyone can just walk in to view. You went with an agent. I was thinking what I need to tell the guards/ workers if they ask me what I'm doing there.

DKSG
06-07-09, 21:07
Nope.

At the moment, no one has access to P11.

Have to wait till TOP in abt 2-3 weeks' time.

I can invite forumers over to take a look at the 2BR is you all are keen.

:D:D:D

jc
08-07-09, 00:58
You guys should go up and take a look at the view of P11.
Esp units abv 21st storey.
Then u will know why it certainly command better pricing then the crowded Amber area.

Anyway, Amber pricing is also going past 1,000 psf already.

From high floor P11, you can see all the way up to the CBD area!

TOP will be 3rd week of July.

The view now is temporary n will be blocked in future when more residential is up. By then, P11 would more or less surrounded n blocked by the rest n i can assure u it will be no less crowded than Amber n River Valley.

Non crowded places i suggest Sembawang, Pasir Ris. Is Ardmore area crowded? It is not only the view but more imptly value of the land that determines pxs.

No offence pal if u r a owner of a unit there. Good luck :)

DKSG
08-07-09, 01:01
Let me check the Master Plan 2008 again and revert.

Did you check the Plan earlier ?

DKSG
08-07-09, 01:12
Just checked the Master Plan.

Hope I am right. The areas around P11 are all marked as 2.8 plot ratio.
I think those that can be built already built up. The nearest being The Ansley.

There is another plot right in front of TTSH. That may be build up, but with a site right in front of TTSH, I hope developer wont be too keen. Or buyers would be too keen. Hopefully in time they build some medical facilities.

So, I conclude, with my humble knowledge that the P11 area will not face significant changes. Lucky they never upgrade the plot ratio to a higher one!

Only risk here is the brown building in front of Block 23, which may enbloc, as it looks quite old and ready to go.

Anyway, please correct me if I am wrong. I hope that by getting a very high floor, I can be assured of a view at least for the next 5 years before I sell it off, make some pocket money and move to a nicer place.

But certainly not Sembawang or Pasir Ris.

Newbie Homebuyer
08-07-09, 10:01
Any idea whether they will build anything on the old folk's home side (next to Block 25)? If not, the view there seems quite secure?

DKSG
08-07-09, 21:33
Old Folks Home has recently been renovated.

So I guess within the next 3-5 years --> no plans.

Renci also just completed their new hospital further down the road.

mogyi
12-07-09, 01:21
heard TOP push back to aug?

DKSG
12-07-09, 01:25
I dont think so.

Heard its late July.

kawaiing
12-07-09, 18:00
HI DKSG,

May I know where can i check the master plan? Interested to know the surrounding too, but the master plan i check online is very very "anyhow", pls advice me where to download the one u read please, Thanks again.


Just checked the Master Plan.

Hope I am right. The areas around P11 are all marked as 2.8 plot ratio.
I think those that can be built already built up. The nearest being The Ansley.

There is another plot right in front of TTSH. That may be build up, but with a site right in front of TTSH, I hope developer wont be too keen. Or buyers would be too keen. Hopefully in time they build some medical facilities.

So, I conclude, with my humble knowledge that the P11 area will not face significant changes. Lucky they never upgrade the plot ratio to a higher one!

Only risk here is the brown building in front of Block 23, which may enbloc, as it looks quite old and ready to go.

Anyway, please correct me if I am wrong. I hope that by getting a very high floor, I can be assured of a view at least for the next 5 years before I sell it off, make some pocket money and move to a nicer place.

But certainly not Sembawang or Pasir Ris.

DKSG
12-07-09, 21:21
URA website ?

kawaiing
12-07-09, 21:41
can be found in URA website?

DKSG
12-07-09, 22:34
Yes!

Click under Master Plan 2008 on the top left hand side.

kawaiing
12-07-09, 23:13
thank you!!!

Newbie Homebuyer
14-07-09, 11:00
I dont think so.

Heard its late July.

Any idea why pushed back? Something wrong?

Went by it again last weekend. Saw the funny entrance there still ... if you notice, there is a green railing outside the main gate where the guardhouse is but it is only the right side. On the left is a cement ledge. Weird ...

Newbie Homebuyer
24-07-09, 16:11
I heard TOP obtained already!

Someone got a 3 br for 980 psf, according to URA! Any idea how high is this unit?

dtrax
24-07-09, 17:37
I heard TOP obtained already!

Someone got a 3 br for 980 psf, according to URA! Any idea how high is this unit?

#20-05 1485 sq ft

Newbie Homebuyer
27-07-09, 10:46
#20-05 1485 sq ft

Thanks dtrax... lucky buyer! But that must be a fire-sale. Owner sold below his cost! Dun think that block was launched so cheaply...

I was told that there are recent transactions in the past couple of weeks at above 11xx psf... dunno why not on URA? Trying to con me???

DKSG
27-07-09, 22:21
It will take a while before the transaction is lodged.
When I bought mine in Dec 08, it wasnt up until 4-6 weeks later.


Thanks dtrax... lucky buyer! But that must be a fire-sale. Owner sold below his cost! Dun think that block was launched so cheaply...

I was told that there are recent transactions in the past couple of weeks at above 11xx psf... dunno why not on URA? Trying to con me???

mogyi
28-07-09, 09:44
It will take a while before the transaction is lodged.
When I bought mine in Dec 08, it wasnt up until 4-6 weeks later.

Imagine in rapid raising market like this , an owner coming back from overseas see the caveat and ask 1100 for his 2x-xx unit! wow bingo for buyer and 6 week later seller realise units during the period were transacted at 1200 and above!!!

DKSG
29-07-09, 23:24
I doubt this is the case.
When u make calls and notice that all units are asking for $1,200 psf, you will probably know thats the price now.

Just got keys! Maybe will post some photos later ... fantastic view !


Imagine in rapid raising market like this , an owner coming back from overseas see the caveat and ask 1100 for his 2x-xx unit! wow bingo for buyer and 6 week later seller realise units during the period were transacted at 1200 and above!!!

Newbie Homebuyer
04-08-09, 18:24
Latest news .... highest psf recently is 1148 psf for a 2 BR! Mebbe this is the one the agent said ... I was asking him about 3 BRs though.

3 BRs sold for 902 psf and 956 psf! Can someone enlighten us on the levels?

jasonlcl
04-08-09, 20:22
Went to c e actual unit. It is a major disappointment in term of finishes for UOL project. Flooring:Kitchen ceramic tiles and living room ceramic tiles r e same! For 2 bedrooms unit, no built-in wardrobe for bedroom 2!Mayb I have higher expectation for UOL project.

chweegrace
04-08-09, 20:57
how is the view , which floor did u view from? actually that wat i guess abt the wardrodde thing when i sw the floor plan. how do u find the kitchen?

jasonlcl
04-08-09, 21:02
I viewed the one 2 bedrooms and one 3 bedrooms, both at 4th floor. The kitchen for 2 bedrooms is quite small. 3 bedrooms still ok. The kitchen cabinets, cooker hood, etc still ok.

chweegrace
04-08-09, 21:08
ya. i think uol give better furnishing in the 3 br this time. 2 br get left out.

jasonlcl
04-08-09, 21:14
I agreed. E 2 bedrooms look liked a 1+1 to me. Anyway, it is the first time I saw the kitchen ceramic tiles same (same colour too) as living room ceramic tiles in a condo project.

DKSG
10-08-09, 00:59
Very much agreed with you all about the tiles.
They say it is porcelien, but never mind, the first thing I did after taking over is to hack away the tiles and replace with MARBLE!

The view is awesome ! Can see the whole stretch of Bt Timah greenery. Can see IR in front. Some sea view behind the IR.

On the right, can see Punggol seaview also !

Decking the balcony up with wood and will be sipping my wine in the evening watching the city views with lights from the ships on the sea.

Further away, can even see a mountain in Indonesia !

Awesome !

Newbie Homebuyer
10-08-09, 21:40
But how much would the replacement with marble cost you?

chweegrace
10-08-09, 21:51
DKSG, which floor is your unit? the view seem to be very good? can u see fire works from your house?

DKSG
11-08-09, 01:27
Marble cost about 10K.
When I bought the unit in Dec 08, I already factor in this cost in my purchase price - haha!

Mine is a abv 25th floor in stack 6.

I think can see fireworks ... not sure .. unit is still under reno and in a mess! So didnt go back to check if can see fireworks.

Newbie Homebuyer
11-08-09, 22:00
Sounds nice...

I guess 10k is still ok. If you do it up beautifully, I'm sure if you sell off in the future, you can get it back...

Sunny Ng
12-08-09, 10:51
Marble cost about 10K.
When I bought the unit in Dec 08, I already factor in this cost in my purchase price - haha!

Mine is a abv 25th floor in stack 6.

I think can see fireworks ... not sure .. unit is still under reno and in a mess! So didnt go back to check if can see fireworks.

Asking price quite high over there.

Newbie Homebuyer
12-08-09, 11:12
Asking price quite high over there.

"There" as in that area or the development?

Sunny Ng
13-08-09, 16:03
"There" as in that area or the development?

Hi, i meant the development itself. A P11 2BR high flr asking 1400psf...

Newbie Homebuyer
14-08-09, 11:02
Just saw a couple more new caveats - mostly around 1050 psf though... any idea how high the units are?

icer_sun
14-08-09, 12:45
for this project, i think 1000-1200 psf still looks reasonable. Any higher than that, u may think twice...

23 Akyab Road #13-01
Freehold
$1054
1485
$1566k
21 Jul 09
25 Akyab Road #18-05
Freehold
$1050
1485
$1559k
20 Jul 09
23 Akyab Road #17-02
Freehold
$1080
958
$1034k
15 Jul 09
25 Akyab Road #21-06
Freehold
$1148
958
$1100k
13 Jul 09
23 Akyab Road #08-01
Freehold
$902
1485
$1340k
09 Jul 09
25 Akyab Road #20-05
Freehold
$980
1485
$1455k
07 Jul 09
23 Akyab Road #14-01
Freehold
$956
1485
$1420k
30 Jun 09
25 Akyab Road #18-07
Freehold
$1050
1485
$1559k
15 Jun 09
25 Akyab Road #21-07
Freehold
$1080
1485
$1603k
12 Jun 09
25 Akyab Road #19-05
Freehold
$983
1485
$1460k
09 Jun 09
25 Akyab Road #30-05
Freehold
$1067
1485
$1585k
08 Jun 09
25 Akyab Road #04-05
Freehold
$925
1485
$1373k
19 May 09
25 Akyab Road #24-06
Freehold
$992
958
$950k
04 May 09



Just saw a couple more new caveats - mostly around 1050 psf though... any idea how high the units are?

DKSG
16-08-09, 02:27
I am pleasantly surprised at the increase in the 2 06 units sold.

One below 1k psf. the other one recently at 1,148 psf!

Yes yes. I do own a 06 unit ... hehe

Bionic Leek
17-08-09, 23:59
Hi I'm just curious with regards to the owners here who picked up a unit at the initial developer's launch.

Did the finishings at the showflat represent an accurate picture of the final situation at Pavilion 11?

Right now, only the master bedroom has a built in wardrobe, all the tiles are identical from the kitchen through to the living, and the main door is a white painted metal frame over a glass door.

I'm just wondering if anyone who bought is a touch disappointed at the quality of the interiors, or did they actually do a decent job of showing it for what it was at the original launch.

Damn nice views though from some of the 3 bedroom units.

focus
18-08-09, 00:45
wa.. must go and view the units.. you guys make it sound so fabulicious..

but concern is it is surrounded by dieases and sickness and deaths..
donno whether will get bad fengshui there..

DKSG
18-08-09, 01:02
The developer did display the finishes as is.
Some units did ask the developer not to lay the tiles so that it is easier to lay your own marble instead.

The doors is a bit disappointing, developer did not showcase the glass door.

But, like what I told other owners/investors, do not be distracted by the 10-20K differences in finishes. If you need to throw in 10K to make it look perfect, why not ?

The stunning feature of this place is the view. IR is in the front view with some glimpses of the Singapore Flyer. Can imagine how it looks when the IR is completed. On the right, there is the full Bt Timah greenery view.

Can see the sea in front when the sky is clear. Can see Punggol sea on the right too!

When my place is ready, I dont mind inviting some selected forumers for a friendly viewing.

Cheers!

tamp81
18-08-09, 23:10
The views are indeed nice!! In fact, for the 3BR, you even get a 270 degrees view from Marina bay/city to HDB towards Macritchie reservoir. Cannot really see the reservoir though cos it is blocked by SkyEleven.

I agree about the disease part. I took a walk from Pavillion 11 to Novena, took me 15 mins and on the way, i pass through TTS and Renci. And there is also a new Parkway healthcare that seems to be in construction stage still.

Certainly not a very good area to stay if there is an epidemic.

DKSG
18-08-09, 23:58
Better to be driving if staying in that area.

But I guess u cant get the best of everything.

Unblock view, IR, Sea view, private lift, 180 units, full length swimming pool.
Near hawker centre, NTUC, cinema.

Charm of Balestier behind. Modern Novena in front.
5 mins to PIE, CTE. 10 mins to Orchard road.

I guess, just have to compromise on the TTSH part.

DKSG
19-08-09, 00:00
Just like The Arte, those with reservior views will be west facing.

I think its still individual preference and what one is willing to compromise vs the benefits.

Certainly I cant stay in a Park Infinia unit which faces directly Viva (or vice versa).

Bionic Leek
20-08-09, 01:46
DKSG got it right regarding the compromises. I think it's a bit childish all the canned responses of "wa surrounded by sickness death and disease". Frankly, I seldom even feel that these posts warrant a reply. That point of view is done to death, and quite simply, the hospital zone will never rate a good fengshui score, so adherents will need to look elsewhere.

But heck, I'm actually grateful that this neighbourhood will auto exclude a lot of people that have a penchant towards over emphasizing such things.

On to the finishings, I certainly agree that if you have the cash to do over a unit, the location, facing and views are extremely important.

My pet peeves from visiting this project:
The glass door which allows free views of the interior of your home every morning during peak work hours. Unless you cover up the wall. Which is in itself a bit silly.
The glass door.
The poor bathroom fittings
The homogeneous tiles throughout the unit
The glass balcony defects rate ('smudges' in the glass)

DKSG, how much would it cost to relay marble throughout the living area? I assume you're going to leave the bathroom as is? I guess if you're only relaying the living/dining area, the cost won't be prohibitive.

It's a little disappointing that you'd have to redo a brand new though. Kinda like buying older.

DKSG
20-08-09, 13:02
I used med-to-high end marble. Cost abt 9-10K for all the marble for living dining. abt 2.5K to lay the marble.
I am also changing the master bath tiles to marble too!
That damaged me by abt 6K.

Actually it is not easy to find a near perfect place to stay in (with a budget). So when I find a place with private lift, IR View, Flyer View, Sea View (remote) and super high floor going for only 1k psf and Freehold~! I decide to set aside 50 psf to do it up (ie change whatever fixatures I dont like).

You can buy a place and change the interior, but u can never buy a place and change the exterior.

Advice : Do up the glass panel in front of the private lift. Get some designer to work on it. Think will cost less than 1K. Can make it look like a hotel lobby. Super cool!

Do deck up the balcony with wood or whatever too. Imagine sipping wine amidst the evening breeze, looking at the IR and city lights (not the condo hor!). Picture perfect !

chenjdd
20-08-09, 14:08
I used med-to-high end marble. Cost abt 9-10K for all the marble for living dining. abt 2.5K to lay the marble.
I am also changing the master bath tiles to marble too!
That damaged me by abt 6K.

Actually it is not easy to find a near perfect place to stay in (with a budget). So when I find a place with private lift, IR View, Flyer View, Sea View (remote) and super high floor going for only 1k psf and Freehold~! I decide to set aside 50 psf to do it up (ie change whatever fixatures I dont like).

You can buy a place and change the interior, but u can never buy a place and change the exterior.

Advice : Do up the glass panel in front of the private lift. Get some designer to work on it. Think will cost less than 1K. Can make it look like a hotel lobby. Super cool!

Do deck up the balcony with wood or whatever too. Imagine sipping wine amidst the evening breeze, looking at the IR and city lights (not the condo hor!). Picture perfect !

Could you post a picture of your private lift lobby ? Or could you refer a designer for me? I very much need such idears since we currently have one glass panel to make up as well!--only put up some of my kid's artwork right now, I am just thinking of a curtain to block the view (but let light to go through). anyway, in my opinion, glass still better than solid wall.

chweegrace
22-08-09, 22:37
i am thinkign of increasing my storage space in both the kitchen and the 2nd bedroom. may be will built full length book cabinet and get extra cabinet in the kitchen.. the colour combination of the kitchen cabinet seems ugly to me, too many colour... thinking of changing the colour to just one simple colour theme.. what are you guys thinking of doing...

focus
23-08-09, 00:01
hey.. post some pictures of the views from your house at night and day :) I am curious about the 270degree view

DKSG
23-08-09, 12:53
Oops ... looks like everyone has got the same idea !

Haha ... I am also building a floor to celing book shelf in the study.

I dont know how to increase the storage space of the kitchen except to make full use of the bomb shelter. Building shelves there for not-so-often-used kitchen items.

My designer is still working on the design of the glass of the private lift. Will keep you posted how that looks like once it is done.

2BR only got 180 degrees view.

Mine is unit 6. So on the left, there is Punggol seaview. In front of IR and Singapore Flyer with some distant seaview of east coast. On the right is the whole stretch of Bt Timah view.

I dont know how to post picture here. Anyone can guide me on that ?

focus
23-08-09, 14:53
Wow.. 180degrees already got so good views?! :)
Hmm.. must contact agent to view 3br.. :)

Bionic Leek
30-08-09, 08:47
Well DKSG is spot on about the siting of the exterior aspects of a condominium project. The area really is rather superb.

We have access through moulmien/mandalay - so you never have to take balestier and suffer through the jams (unless you want to tar pao some tau sar piah on the way to the in-laws)

There is quick access by foot to the main road at balestier if the buses there take you to work, but novena and its attendent shopping centers are a lazy morning's walk away on weekends.

I especially like how peaceful and quiet the neighbourhood is. Well, Pav 11 will have to put up with piling for Nova 48/88 soon, but once that's done nothing for a while.

I'm just a tad worried that once all the condos are done: Montebleu, Pav 11 fully settled, Nova 48 88, Axis, M21, Vutton/Zedge that the whole area would become slightly congested.

I'm also wondering if private lifts that share across 33 floors of a building are a great idea in the mornings around 7.30 to 8am...

Personally, I was flipping a coin between Montebleu and Pav 11, and wound up getting a 3bdrm unit at Montebleu. Happily also on a relatively high floor that clears the medge.

Now I'm just hoping that the views are as good as Pav 11's - also hoping the finishings are going to turn out better as I didn't get to budget that additional 50psf for sprucing up what comes with the unit. Sigh. Shoestring budget that I have.

Would love to take up DKSG's offer on the viewing invite once the place is totally ready =) Would be nice to compare views.

Newbie Homebuyer
01-09-09, 19:49
1200 psf has been reached ... must be very high floor.

mogyi
02-09-09, 09:55
Does anyone have the structural plan for the 3 br?
i am curious if the wall between the master rm and the next bedroom can be hack away cos the rooms are just way too small. Anyone has done any hacking of walls for this estate ?

mogyi
06-09-09, 08:47
Does anyone have the structural plan for the 3 br?
i am curious if the wall between the master rm and the next bedroom can be hack away cos the rooms are just way too small. Anyone has done any hacking of walls for this estate ?

It's Concreate wall... just found out

cheerful
06-09-09, 18:25
better to check with developer's c&s engineer if this is a load bearing wall?in addition, should avoid making any structural changes if CSC has not been obtained. cheers!


It's Concreate wall... just found out

Newbie Homebuyer
11-09-09, 21:08
OMG - price hit 13xx psf. is this one of the highest psf ever?

DKSG
11-09-09, 21:56
WooHoo !

Thats good news for owners !

P11 certainly has been appreciation than others around it.

Will post some pictures next week ... reno in progress now ...

DKSG

andy
13-09-09, 17:42
OMG - price hit 13xx psf. is this one of the highest psf ever?

Yes incredible. Balestier is now the new Newton. :cool: Can anyone tell me why?

Bionic Leek
13-09-09, 18:14
I'm a happy future resident of the area, and I'll gladly correct all and sundry the next 351,500 times that they refer to my part of Singapore as Balestier.

It's Novena. I enter from Jalan Tan Tock Seng from Irrawaddy Road, or from Moulmein, Or from Sinaran Drive, and i leave from the same three ways. Only late at night when I'm heading towards Bishan/AMK do I drive along Balestier.

Its worth a lot because:
1) Its really peaceful and quiet throughout all hours of the day. Pav 11, Montebleu, the area is ridiculously quiet and free from hustle and bustle. All the noise and the maddening crowds happen on the main Balestier and Thomson Roads an acceptable distance away.

2) I can walk 2 mins to find food at any hour of the day/night.

3) The neighbourhood is getting more crowded, but simultaneously much more modern and attractive. If you count the number of developments of 5years or less in age, you'll realise its a brand new middle class community. All of which are condominiums.

4) Accessibility is fantastic. You can access CTE/PIE, you can still walk to the MRT, although it IS a slightly longer than comfortable walk from Montebleu, anyone below 18 years of age would have no problems doing it daily (simply because their limbs have not degenerated from having access to a car on an every day basis)

5) The neighbourhood can only become more valuable over time. Balestier has mostly cleaned out its streetwalkers and Walled KTVs flanked by burly men. Yes there are some questionable hotels around, but rather than detracting, I think they add a little bit of flavor to the area. Like condiments, a little sprinkle adds flavour, a lot ruins the meal.

Plus, the buildings are all getting newer: CDL still has some plots to develop. The most questionable sites are already earmarked for redevelopment. We still have the Arte, Vista Residences, Bliss Loft and the upcoming one that i've forgotten behind shaw to continue increasing the value of the neighborhood

So basically, you get 24hr food, respectably decent neighbors, great medical accessibility (highest rate of heart attack survival in Singapore) 24/7, quiet peaceful settings, ease of access, newer and better buildings replacing the few stolid old developments...

What's not to like? =) I love the neighborhood already and I don't even live there yet.

Mongoose
13-09-09, 22:15
I'm a happy future resident of the area, and I'll gladly correct all and sundry the next 351,500 times that they refer to my part of Singapore as Balestier.

It's Novena. I enter from Jalan Tan Tock Seng from Irrawaddy Road, or from Moulmein, Or from Sinaran Drive, and i leave from the same three ways. Only late at night when I'm heading towards Bishan/AMK do I drive along Balestier.

Its worth a lot because:
1) Its really peaceful and quiet throughout all hours of the day. Pav 11, Montebleu, the area is ridiculously quiet and free from hustle and bustle. All the noise and the maddening crowds happen on the main Balestier and Thomson Roads an acceptable distance away.

2) I can walk 2 mins to find food at any hour of the day/night.

3) The neighbourhood is getting more crowded, but simultaneously much more modern and attractive. If you count the number of developments of 5years or less in age, you'll realise its a brand new middle class community. All of which are condominiums.

4) Accessibility is fantastic. You can access CTE/PIE, you can still walk to the MRT, although it IS a slightly longer than comfortable walk from Montebleu, anyone below 18 years of age would have no problems doing it daily (simply because their limbs have not degenerated from having access to a car on an every day basis)

5) The neighbourhood can only become more valuable over time. Balestier has mostly cleaned out its streetwalkers and Walled KTVs flanked by burly men. Yes there are some questionable hotels around, but rather than detracting, I think they add a little bit of flavor to the area. Like condiments, a little sprinkle adds flavour, a lot ruins the meal.

Plus, the buildings are all getting newer: CDL still has some plots to develop. The most questionable sites are already earmarked for redevelopment. We still have the Arte, Vista Residences, Bliss Loft and the upcoming one that i've forgotten behind shaw to continue increasing the value of the neighborhood

So basically, you get 24hr food, respectably decent neighbors, great medical accessibility (highest rate of heart attack survival in Singapore) 24/7, quiet peaceful settings, ease of access, newer and better buildings replacing the few stolid old developments...

What's not to like? =) I love the neighborhood already and I don't even live there yet.

honestly, why u think Montebleu/Medge etc is not considered Balestier? maybe becos its D11? its nearest to Balestier than to Moulmein and certainly further to Novena.

Half the positives u mention above are about Balestier... e.g. food, access to PIE, future development like Arte/Vista. Balestier after all is just a name...

I do foresee congestion being a bigger problem in future with all the new developments coming up, but not sure how LTA will resolve it.... dosen't seem to have any chance of road widening.

hoching
14-09-09, 00:03
I thought this thread is talking about Pavilion 11? P11 is a different class than Montebleu as the latter is on lower ground and view is not as good.
Also, the centralised rubbish collection is so HDBish for a mid class condo. That's why P11 is already selling at 1300psf whereas Montebleu still hovering around 1000psf. Walking to MRT is a chore as there are slopes all over but good for exercise.

mogyi
14-09-09, 10:15
Yes incredible. Balestier is now the new Newton. :cool: Can anyone tell me why?

no choice mah... i guess .. if ang mo kio took over balestier so balestier must take over newton lor..... :doh:

andy
14-09-09, 12:54
2) I can walk 2 mins to find food at any hour of the day/night.

4) Accessibility is fantastic. You can access CTE/PIE, you can still walk to the MRT, although it IS a slightly longer than comfortable walk from Montebleu, anyone below 18 years of age would have no problems doing it daily (simply because their limbs have not degenerated from having access to a car on an every day basis)



So apart from access to roads and food, why do you think P11 will appreciate beyond $1300 and those across the road like Montebleu won't?

What higher $psf level do you think P11 will hit?

yokoosi
14-09-09, 18:28
So apart from access to roads and food, why do you think P11 will appreciate beyond $1300 and those across the road like Montebleu won't?

What higher $psf level do you think P11 will hit?

Near to all the hospitals, so you can go there anytime without jam.;)

andy
14-09-09, 18:32
Near to all the hospitals, so you can go there anytime without jam.;)

Ok. I didn't know many people will pay more $psf to be near hospitals.

chweegrace
14-09-09, 20:50
diff ppl buy for diff reason
for me,
1)near work
2) near train
3) still not too far from parents
4) quiet n peaceful
5) within walking distance to makan place
6) near to velocity n novena sq 2 , means i csn get my groceries, haircut, contact lenes and other daily need easily.
and veolociy and novena not as crowded as like amk hub.
7) for own stay but if make profit dun mind selling.

DKSG
14-09-09, 23:31
I think you guys MUST come and take a look at P11.

Visit one of the high floor units and you will know why this place is worth more.

From my place, I can even see the mountain in Indonesia.

The hospital is just a small lego like building. Even the Feng Shui Master dismissed the need to do anything major to counter that.

Not many other condos have such views. Near MRT. Pte Lift. 3 units per floor. Next to 24 hr makan place. Got 2 shopping centres. etc.

I agree with Grace. To each his own. If you are very pan-dan abt the hospital, then better dont buy this area lo! But these days not many are bothered. Look at Solei ... doing very well also.

chenjdd
15-09-09, 01:28
my old HDB flat is at Jurong East quite near future JE general hospital. Wondering if it's a plus or minus point... will buyer bargain with this reason? fr my flat can't see hospital but only 2-3 min by walking, is this considered too near? indeed it should be very convenient place

jlrx
15-09-09, 01:37
I'm a happy future resident of the area, and I'll gladly correct all and sundry the next 351,500 times that they refer to my part of Singapore as Balestier.

But it's really Balestier ... don't whack me ... :scared-3:

It's around the Bak Kut Teh stalls ...

Novena condos are those around the junction where the Novena MRT is located, e.g. Novena Suites, the upcoming VIVA @ Novena.

Property_Owner
15-09-09, 09:23
It's around the Bak Kut Teh stalls ...




Dude, you forget to mention those budget hotels too. Pass by yesterday. Wifey lost count.

dmonddd
15-09-09, 10:07
what differentiates psf for one versus another district?

surroundings.....

balestier extremely convenient for food.....food attracts.
so you cant avoid those budget hotels and the patrons....i c heavy traffic during weekdays couples walking in and out when I was having lunch with wifey.

lancelot
15-09-09, 12:04
I think you guys MUST come and take a look at P11.

Visit one of the high floor units and you will know why this place is worth more.

From my place, I can even see the mountain in Indonesia.

The hospital is just a small lego like building. Even the Feng Shui Master dismissed the need to do anything major to counter that.

Not many other condos have such views. Near MRT. Pte Lift. 3 units per floor. Next to 24 hr makan place. Got 2 shopping centres. etc.

I agree with Grace. To each his own. If you are very pan-dan abt the hospital, then better dont buy this area lo! But these days not many are bothered. Look at Solei ... doing very well also.
To each his own, I agree. But I don't think Soleil is doing all that well. It's not a sell out and the early buyers are still sitting on paper loss and those who cashed out suffered REAL losses.

yokoosi
15-09-09, 12:15
Ok. I didn't know many people will pay more $psf to be near hospitals.

now you know...not too late.

andy
15-09-09, 12:17
To each his own, I agree. But I don't think Soleil is doing all that well. It's not a sell out and the early buyers are still sitting on paper loss and those who cashed out suffered REAL losses.

Not much is happening with Soleil, although I believe it will get better closer to TOP. The other properties like Strata seems to be doing better.

I guess it would have been better to follow the ION orchard with residence apartments on top of Velocity. It's kind of sandwiched between 2 Squares and a hotel.

andy
15-09-09, 12:32
now you know...not too late.

I'm not sure this is a condescending comment?

I originally started this discussion going to find out more why P11 has appreciated quick a lot. However it seems many forumers are set to shrug off this trend and quick to point out the "negatives" surrouning P11. I even did a search in goggle and itsays Pavillon 11@novena and so I stand corrected.

I'm interested to debate the pros and cons and also to find out the future potential of P11 and its surrounding areas.

I'm not an agent & don't own any properties here ;)

dmonddd
15-09-09, 12:45
the link to balestier is because of the access road.

andy
15-09-09, 12:52
the link to balestier is because of the access road.
Is this what makes the $psf go from 880 to 13xx?

mogyi
15-09-09, 14:22
Is this what makes the $psf go from 880 to 13xx?

NO! but it's certainly the reason to prevent it from hitting 1500! :doh:
anyway... why bother when the garment has decided to bring down the property price...so if i dun have any property yet...just wait lah..
u know... before election every thing cheap cheap good good..
so u know when to enter the market now?;)

dmonddd
15-09-09, 15:33
Is this what makes the $psf go from 880 to 13xx?

it should not, logically.
if it does, the condos in newton or orchard shld jump to higher levels.

andy
15-09-09, 15:41
it should not, logically.
if it does, the condos in newton or orchard shld jump to higher levels.

So caveats are wrong again or buyers paying too much?

So why would someone pay $13xx for this area when they can get one near Orchard for the same?

dmonddd
15-09-09, 17:49
So caveats are wrong again or buyers paying too much?

So why would someone pay $13xx for this area when they can get one near Orchard for the same?

your guess is as good as mine.
whether the buyers are rationale or herd mentality kicks in or stronger rupiah agst USD or too much savings with not many options/alternatives.

if financing is required with minimal downpayment, it will be a challenge to find valuer who can provide such higher value.
valuers as we know works on historical data.

like stocks, last to hold the ball when music stops.

fund managers who hold blocks of units need to ensure prices hold or at higher. otherwise......

buyers in the project -risk adverse/risk seeker.

for condos, ambience, security, profile of occupants/tenants, good maintenance matter alot.

Quality finishes - Why spent $$$ to re-do/renovate while common area is the same.

Newbie Homebuyer
15-09-09, 18:19
I thought this thread is talking about Pavilion 11? P11 is a different class than Montebleu as the latter is on lower ground and view is not as good.
Also, the centralised rubbish collection is so HDBish for a mid class condo. That's why P11 is already selling at 1300psf whereas Montebleu still hovering around 1000psf. Walking to MRT is a chore as there are slopes all over but good for exercise.

Sorry, what do you mean by "centralised rubbish collection"? :beats-me-man:

questa
15-09-09, 18:35
It means you have to bring out your trash to the lift lobby to dump it. There isnt any disposal chute in the units.

Newbie Homebuyer
15-09-09, 18:57
It means you have to bring out your trash to the lift lobby to dump it. There isnt any disposal chute in the units.

I see. Thanks.

I went by to that area last night. First time I went at night. There is a certain quietness in that area at night that will please people who like peace. Only sound i thought was a bit irritating was the sound of the tennis ball coming from Ansley. But on the whole, its nice.

P11 doesn't look like it has many occupants even though it has TOPed for a while. You can tell easily cos the walls are all glass windows and there are only like 3 or 4 lighted units. Not sure why no one is staying ... all busy selling?

In front of P11 are a few low-lying bungalows. Not sure if they are privately owned as the part is quite dark. Quite a big area though ... dunno if a condo will sprout out here.

On the right are the pavilion wards which are the low-lying blue roof buildings. They are renovating the wards which I guess means no new building there within the next 3 years (otherwise Government waste money).

Oppo the wards (near TTSH) are some ruins of buildings in a plot of grass. Is this a historical relic? Not sure if this is state land or private land...

Btw, a new development is coming up just outside P11's entrance. Some piling sounds to come from there and also from Nova 88 and 48 behind. Speaking of which, Nova 88 and 48 have the slimmest piece of plots I have seen for condos! They will however be another "cleaning up" process for the balestier side. You can see more and more old buildings been torn down or earmarked to be torn down ... and maybe more condos will come up.

After that, I went home .. tired liao.

andy
15-09-09, 19:07
I see. Thanks.

I went by to that area last night. First time I went at night. There is a certain quietness in that area at night that will please people who like peace. Only sound i thought was a bit irritating was the sound of the tennis ball coming from Ansley. But on the whole, its nice.

P11 doesn't look like it has many occupants even though it has TOPed for a while. You can tell easily cos the walls are all glass windows and there are only like 3 or 4 lighted units. Not sure why no one is staying ... all busy selling?

In front of P11 are a few low-lying bungalows. Not sure if they are privately owned as the part is quite dark. Quite a big area though ... dunno if a condo will sprout out here.

On the right are the pavilion wards which are the low-lying blue roof buildings. They are renovating the wards which I guess means no new building there within the next 3 years (otherwise Government waste money).

Oppo the wards (near TTSH) are some ruins of buildings in a plot of grass. Is this a historical relic? Not sure if this is state land or private land...

Btw, a new development is coming up just outside P11's entrance. Some piling sounds to come from there and also from Nova 88 and 48 behind. Speaking of which, Nova 88 and 48 have the slimmest piece of plots I have seen for condos! They will however be another "cleaning up" process for the balestier side. You can see more and more old buildings been torn down or earmarked to be torn down ... and maybe more condos will come up.

After that, I went home .. tired liao.

Thanks. Was the purpose of the scotting mission to check if it was worth buying? Recommendations?

Newbie Homebuyer
15-09-09, 19:17
Thanks. Was the purpose of the scotting mission to check if it was worth buying? Recommendations?

Errr... didn't go in any development so cannot recommend. But yes, I would like to buy somewhere in this area and just wanted to see the area at night.

If budget/ size no issue, i think my ranking is:

1. P11 or M21 (which is the one oppo Ansley, still under construction) - these are the kings of that area

2. Ansley - only reason it is not ranked 1 is cos it is older and I hear some odd shaped units

3. Montebleu - the mass market (ie. very big) condo in that area - probably most budget friendly

Can't comment on Nova 88 and 48 and the new one beside P11 now as I haven't even seen one brick of it. But unlikely to break into the rankings above.

chweegrace
15-09-09, 20:25
oh ya forgot to put down the other reasons i like this place,
1) near town (just 2 train to orchard) or within 5 to 10 min drive, very convinient for me to go shopping
2)i like private lift condo since young
3) if u live high in enough can still see singapore flyer. i like sit in the balcony at night drink coffee and lookin at nice night views
4) the layout of the floor plan are quite squarish.
5)there is no afternoon sun and quite windy


yes it is near balastier not doubt about it, this area needs to
be clean up and i can feel that it is slowing cleaning up , with lot of old building going off aand building new condo and apartment... so maybe 5 or 10 years later i dunno how long , it may have more upside capital appreaciation if it become cleaner.

and of cos there may be other cheap buy at other areas near orchard, but it is either low floor or odd layout or with afternoon sun or being block by all around.
anyway buying properties can be for short or long term just make sure u r comfortable with the most important factor that affect your purchase before you buy. then u wont regret.

Bionic Leek
15-09-09, 23:53
Haha, no I do realise I'm close to balestier. In fact far far closer than I am to Novena. Yes I'm not spatially retarded. However, calling Pavilion 11 and Montebleu "Novena" is a privilege you enjoy for two simple reasons: 1) District 11 status 2) Access road alternatives. Anything across balestier road basically you have zero access road options. As I stated quite clearly, the ansley/pav11/montebleu condos can all be accessed from Novena side, be it shan road from irrawaddy, moulmein road, jalan tan tock seng etc

As to why its worth 1300psf... well, historically it was worth up to 1400psf+... I'm sure some of you know that the entire M21 development was purchased by a single wealthy individual at around 1400psf. So early this year, it looked like he was bleeding money, now its just a controlled cut. Who knows, by TOP time he might be close to break even?

It is worth more on this side due to many of the reasons that I've stated. And yes, of course half the reasons belong to Balestier too, I'm not denying it. Its the other half in addition that makes all the difference.

Because really, when you look at it, the same distance from Pav11 is balestier jalan rajah udang kind of place, and the same distance again from there is well, toa payoh, and a whole new valuation. Singapore is small, so small differences result in huge value shifts.

Oh, and for the brilliant person that said $1300psf can live in orchard, sorry, i don't think that bus stop is for sale anymore. How on earth is orchard 1300psf??

I'd love to see the view from DKSH's pavilion 11 unit. I'm sure it must be quite a sight. Pav is definitely a buy for the views. The quality is just rather shabby though.

Oh and one more thing about the price of Pav 11 vs Montebleu, in case you didn't know, pre-top prices are almost always cheaper than TOP prices, since you get an uncertainty discount. After you can touch, see and feel the actual unit, the price would usually shoot up a significant amount. 10-20% premiums are quite common for pre vs post TOP projects.

Bionic Leek
16-09-09, 00:03
Errr... didn't go in any development so cannot recommend. But yes, I would like to buy somewhere in this area and just wanted to see the area at night.

If budget/ size no issue, i think my ranking is:

1. P11 or M21 (which is the one oppo Ansley, still under construction) - these are the kings of that area

2. Ansley - only reason it is not ranked 1 is cos it is older and I hear some odd shaped units

3. Montebleu - the mass market (ie. very big) condo in that area - probably most budget friendly
above.

Hi Newbie,
Sorry to all if I veer slightly off topic here. Historically, Ansley is the king of this area. The only full facility condo.

Further on, P11 and Montebleu were both developed almost simultaneously.
If you actually read the forums going back into the past, Montebleu was easily considered the more premium of the two, not the mass market one. P11 launched low 800+psf, montebleu launched 1000psf average.

P11 has homogenous tiles on all flooring surfaces vs natural marble for montebleu. Toilets in P11 are also ceramic tiles while montebleu has natural marble in the master. Montebleu also comes with full appliances vs p11 having only a washer and no built in wardrobes in all rooms except the masterbedroom.

I do think that P11 has the better external facade and offset, so better views and more space all around. But whether that applies to you depends on which floor and stack you got.

M21 was launched as a luxury apartment kind of development, so high end designer finishings to draw the necessary crowd.

Ultimately, its your decision, but it looks like you're doing the slow shopping route (87posts) and you want to look at the finished product before you commit. Think you should review your choices carefully so you're satisfied in the end having waited this long =)

andy
16-09-09, 09:58
Haha, no I do realise I'm close to balestier. In fact far far closer than I am to Novena. Yes I'm not spatially retarded. However, calling Pavilion 11 and Montebleu "Novena" is a privilege you enjoy for two simple reasons: 1) District 11 status 2) Access road alternatives. Anything across balestier road basically you have zero access road options. As I stated quite clearly, the ansley/pav11/montebleu condos can all be accessed from Novena side, be it shan road from irrawaddy, moulmein road, jalan tan tock seng etc

As to why its worth 1300psf... well, historically it was worth up to 1400psf+... I'm sure some of you know that the entire M21 development was purchased by a single wealthy individual at around 1400psf. So early this year, it looked like he was bleeding money, now its just a controlled cut. Who knows, by TOP time he might be close to break even?

It is worth more on this side due to many of the reasons that I've stated. And yes, of course half the reasons belong to Balestier too, I'm not denying it. Its the other half in addition that makes all the difference.

Because really, when you look at it, the same distance from Pav11 is balestier jalan rajah udang kind of place, and the same distance again from there is well, toa payoh, and a whole new valuation. Singapore is small, so small differences result in huge value shifts.

Oh, and for the brilliant person that said $1300psf can live in orchard, sorry, i don't think that bus stop is for sale anymore. How on earth is orchard 1300psf??

I'd love to see the view from DKSH's pavilion 11 unit. I'm sure it must be quite a sight. Pav is definitely a buy for the views. The quality is just rather shabby though.

Oh and one more thing about the price of Pav 11 vs Montebleu, in case you didn't know, pre-top prices are almost always cheaper than TOP prices, since you get an uncertainty discount. After you can touch, see and feel the actual unit, the price would usually shoot up a significant amount. 10-20% premiums are quite common for pre vs post TOP projects.

Thanks for your perspective and also the notion that TOP is more valuable than pre-TOP. I also thought that buyers at P11, particularly also pay for the views more so than proximity to Balestier since the 13xx transacted unit is very near the top floor.

Yes I checked up the master plan 2008 and note that the Novena & Balestier area is targetted for substantial re-development. Hope you will enjoy your stay @ P11 and do keep us posted when you move in.

BTW, I mentioned you can get a unit NEAR orchard at $1300. Pls check the latest caveats for Pinetree Condo @ Balmoral park going for $1105psf which is about 10 minutes walk to Orchard:cool:

echotrain
16-09-09, 10:07
Thanks for your perspective and also the notion that TOP is more valuable than pre-TOP. I also thought that buyers at P11, particularly also pay for the views more so than proximity to Balestier since the 13xx transacted unit is very near the top floor.

Yes I checked up the master plan 2008 and note that the Novena & Balestier area is targetted for substantial re-development. Hope you will enjoy your stay @ P11 and do keep us posted when you move in.

BTW, I mentioned you can get a unit NEAR orchard at $1300. Pls check the latest caveats for Pinetree Condo @ Balmoral park going for $1105psf which is about 10 minutes walk to Orchard:cool:

Yup tehre are actually some good developments at the balmoral area going for around 1300+ PSF, which suddenly appear reasonably priced. Just have to bargain.

andy
16-09-09, 10:19
Yup tehre are actually some good developments at the balmoral area going for around 1300+ PSF, which suddenly appear reasonably priced. Just have to bargain.

But no point. S'porean die die must have new unit. I think resale units will be worthless in future:doh:

mogyi
16-09-09, 10:27
But no point. S'porean die die must have new unit. I think resale units will be worthless in future:doh:

actually..more like new estate than just new units. Look at FEO new units at old estate like rafflesia etc.. still no one willing to take a look.
But indeed.. s'poreans would happily pay extra 10-15% for new development to their older neighbour

dmonddd
16-09-09, 10:34
Haha, no I do realise I'm close to balestier. In fact far far closer than I am to Novena. Yes I'm not spatially retarded. However, calling Pavilion 11 and Montebleu "Novena" is a privilege you enjoy for two simple reasons: 1) District 11 status 2) Access road alternatives. Anything across balestier road basically you have zero access road options. As I stated quite clearly, the ansley/pav11/montebleu condos can all be accessed from Novena side, be it shan road from irrawaddy, moulmein road, jalan tan tock seng etc

As to why its worth 1300psf... well, historically it was worth up to 1400psf+... I'm sure some of you know that the entire M21 development was purchased by a single wealthy individual at around 1400psf. So early this year, it looked like he was bleeding money, now its just a controlled cut. Who knows, by TOP time he might be close to break even?

It is worth more on this side due to many of the reasons that I've stated. And yes, of course half the reasons belong to Balestier too, I'm not denying it. Its the other half in addition that makes all the difference.

Because really, when you look at it, the same distance from Pav11 is balestier jalan rajah udang kind of place, and the same distance again from there is well, toa payoh, and a whole new valuation. Singapore is small, so small differences result in huge value shifts.

Oh, and for the brilliant person that said $1300psf can live in orchard, sorry, i don't think that bus stop is for sale anymore. How on earth is orchard 1300psf??

I'd love to see the view from DKSH's pavilion 11 unit. I'm sure it must be quite a sight. Pav is definitely a buy for the views. The quality is just rather shabby though.

Oh and one more thing about the price of Pav 11 vs Montebleu, in case you didn't know, pre-top prices are almost always cheaper than TOP prices, since you get an uncertainty discount. After you can touch, see and feel the actual unit, the price would usually shoot up a significant amount. 10-20% premiums are quite common for pre vs post TOP projects.

a true hybrid of private and public housing environment.
private as to interior
public as to surroundings, balestier road, hotel 61, Bak kut teh, hardware shops, tau sar peah, etc....

best of both worlds. developers reap the margins although project sitting at brink of D11. I can read and say that most prefer heart of D11 (near Newton MRT) but would not pay for the higher psf.

so long in D11 happy -lah.
so long cheaper than D11 heart condos, can buy lah.

for e.g. what's the walking distance from Park Infinia condo to novena MRT station entrance? next to big drain- no problem







compare

Newbie Homebuyer
16-09-09, 10:55
Yes I checked up the master plan 2008 and note that the Novena & Balestier area is targetted for substantial re-development. Hope you will enjoy your stay @ P11 and do keep us posted when you move in.



Hi andy, could you share what these substantial redevelopments are? This is important to me of course ... i only see maps in the master plan. Where can i find what's in store?

andy
16-09-09, 21:36
Hi andy, could you share what these substantial redevelopments are? This is important to me of course ... i only see maps in the master plan. Where can i find what's in store?

Just look at the legend in the master plan you will see what's being planned:cool:

hoching
16-09-09, 21:46
Since everyone likes new and if time is on your side, then don't buy pre- TOP or TOP units. Buy them a few years after TOP in resale where the novelty is gone. Also I want to comment it is not so simple that the higher launch price imply that a development is more prestigious than another. Does Centro at 1150psf makes it more premium than Montebleu? I doubt so. In this case, I believe P11 3-room has bigger floor area and with a larger price quantum developer preview price is at 8xx psf. During launch with good response, the units are all at 9xxpsf.

jlrx
16-09-09, 22:35
Since everyone likes new and if time is on your side, then don't buy pre- TOP or TOP units. Buy them a few years after TOP in resale where the novelty is gone. Also I want to comment it is not so simple that the higher launch price imply that a development is more prestigious than another. Does Centro at 1150psf makes it more premium than Montebleu? I doubt so. In this case, I believe P11 3-room has bigger floor area and with a larger price quantum developer preview price is at 8xx psf. During launch with good response, the units are all at 9xxpsf.

A few years after TOP the condo wouldn't smell as nice. It's just like ... people pay more for a new car because it's new leather seats and wood panels smell nice.

The price of a project depends not only on its inherent value, but the pricing power of the developer.

In the case of Centro, the developer is a family business so they can hold the units for eternity, maybe pass on to their children and grandchildren and great grandchildren, and in future maybe en bloc again and again, and make more money for their own family business, rather than let the buyers make money from the en-blocs.

On the other hand, developers run by salaried executives don't have such holding power. If a listed company doesn't make money for 4 generations, the CEO would starve to death,. Even his children would have no money to go to school, and grandchildren no money to buy milk powder. :sleep:

focus
17-09-09, 01:01
I dream of the day when I can be like Peter Lim.. having a whole condo by myself.. and his is in ORCHARD somemore! Gosh..

I not so ambition.. a whole condo like BluWaters 1 in Pasir Ris is good enough.

tamp81
18-09-09, 23:52
I guess it is not always true that value of a condo will drop after top. Depends on which part of the property cycle we are in and whether there is any further development in the location as well.

Bionic Leek
19-09-09, 08:46
There is a fallacy in the arguments being put up above regarding condo age. I'm going to explain things in a fairly broad scenario - meaning we assume that the macro economic situation stays on low to moderate growth throughout the years.

First of all, the value of a property GAINS when it TOPs for a few reasons.
1) Like I said, people pay a premium for the ability to physically see what they are getting. Like in Pav 11, the owners of high floor units command the ability to get 13XXpsf simply BECAUSE people can walk in and see the amazing views.
2) Investors that Need to dump typically do so just before TOP so that they avoid the final payments that are called for
3) Those that DO pay or settle the banks tend to require a premium or are prepared to settle in for the long wait for a willing buyer/tenant

Second, valuation of a property does NOT fall over time. So its not true that you wait 5 years and you can buy Pav11/Monte for less. What actually happens is that each New condo in the area is priced premium to the older units. I mean, if you're the developer of course you'll sell your brand spanking new condo at a premium to other developments in the area. This then creates "value" for your older resale unit as you're cheaper than the surrounding new projects. Typically year on year private property prices trend upwards at least at inflation rate levels (more true in prime/subprime areas over a long timeline view e.g. 10 years) and developers will just plonk down a new development in the vicinity and price in all the upside + a premium for newness.

This is how neighborhoods gain value over time. Worst case a unit gets so old nobody buys it, someday it will be sold enbloc, torn down, and the new development again will be premium to the surroundings.

andy
19-09-09, 21:11
Second, valuation of a property does NOT fall over time. So its not true that you wait 5 years and you can buy Pav11/Monte for less.

Don't be naive. If you buy a new property about to TOP or a sub-sale property at the peak of the property cycle, you are paying a premium.

If the market crashed in 5 years, the brand new properties cannot even sell at the price you have bought at the peak. Hence your 5 year old property will therefore sell at 30% lower than what you have paid for:doh:

gemstone
19-09-09, 22:57
Don't be naive. If you buy a new property about to TOP or a sub-sale property at the peak of the property cycle, you are paying a premium.

If the market crashed in 5 years, the brand new properties cannot even sell at the price you have bought at the peak. Hence your 5 year old property will therefore sell at 30% lower than what you have paid for:doh:

exactly! couldn't agree more with Andy :D

teddybear
19-09-09, 23:23
But if you bought a CCR FH property and close eyes for 20 years (as has been the case for any past 20 years period), still make decent profit.


Don't be naive. If you buy a new property about to TOP or a sub-sale property at the peak of the property cycle, you are paying a premium.

If the market crashed in 5 years, the brand new properties cannot even sell at the price you have bought at the peak. Hence your 5 year old property will therefore sell at 30% lower than what you have paid for:doh:

echotrain
19-09-09, 23:43
But if you bought a CCR FH property and close eyes for 20 years (as has been the case for any past 20 years period), still make decent profit.

That is why the <5 yrs old FH condos in D10 (Esp around balmoral where recent launches are hitting 2000psf) that are going for 1300-1400psf are great bargains now. There are lots of upside in the medium to long term.

Gave you guys hint already.

dmonddd
19-09-09, 23:56
definition of decent profits?

inflation, surrounding proeprties' prices.

my uncle bought one for $100k then...sell for $250k 20 years later, still decent profits? fren, i think you are lucky to have not seen the cycles.

and probably for property agents like you, your vision has to be short term....

Bionic Leek
20-09-09, 08:45
There is a fallacy in the arguments being put up above regarding condo age. I'm going to explain things in a fairly broad scenario - meaning we assume that the macro economic situation stays on low to moderate growth throughout the years.

Guys, you should try to understand what i wrote before flaming. Of course if you buy a property at the most recent peak of the cycle and you try to sell it at the base of the very next economic crisis you can't get the price. I don't even know why you bother quantifying that. Its a given. But over time you'll still make money. The only question to ask is, how much time?

I'm only saying that given a flat growth over time, (which is exactly the kind of chart Singapore's growth has been since the dawn of the country) property prices will definitely trend upwards.

However, each peak over time gets higher, and each trough gets higher too. So prices WILL trend up, and what I was sharing will happen.

For example, this recession is what many called the mother of all recessions, and its impact was global and felt keenly by the most powerful economies in the world. Yet, at the lowest (march/april 09), the property market prices generally dipped to 2006 levels. We didn't even see 2004 kinds of lows, not to mention 199X whatever troughs. And it lasted all of 3 months before prices are now somewhere between 2007 and 2008 levels again. Mass market has already overtaken 2007, prime is around 2008 levels.

So in general, the trend about price movements I was trying to explain to people who were asking about pre/post TOP pricing and the ensuing premiums holds true.

Cheers

andy
20-09-09, 12:21
Originally Posted by teddybear
But if you bought a CCR FH property and close eyes for 20 years (as has been the case for any past 20 years period), still make decent profit.



That is why the <5 yrs old FH condos in D10 (Esp around balmoral where recent launches are hitting 2000psf) that are going for 1300-1400psf are great bargains now. There are lots of upside in the medium to long term.

Gave you guys hint already.

Don't need to give hints lah. I know one property only $1000psf but has 7000sqft townhouse NEAR or can walk orchard. Guaranteed got upside within 5 years or 10 years but on the market for 6 months oredi...

Sillyporeans not blind or deaf:p No one wants to wait 5 or 10 years.

Also not many wants to put in large quantum, get low rent & wait long long. Ok can move in to stay and wait....but Sporeans also don't like old estates. Put in 100K to renovate also don't like. Lift lobbies, lifts must be new and also no smell. Must also have new swimming pool and new gym gearl. Old estates also lower height. Must go for high high tower block. Mickey mouse unit ok as long as no blockage or no sharp corners...better still can see Kuala Lumpur or Jakarta from balcony:doh:

andy
20-09-09, 12:33
definition of decent profits?

inflation, surrounding proeprties' prices.

my uncle bought one for $100k then...sell for $250k 20 years later, still decent profits? fren, i think you are lucky to have not seen the cycles.

and probably for property agents like you, your vision has to be short term....

So true. Lots of single landed properties didn't want to sell or don't know how to let go when they had the opportunities. Now end up 30 stories condos to the left, right and back. Now have to wait another 30 years before the surrounding condos go enbloc.

Investments must be short or at most medium term.:cheers1:

andy
20-09-09, 12:57
Guys, you should try to understand what i wrote before flaming. Of course if you buy a property at the most recent peak of the cycle and you try to sell it at the base of the very next economic crisis you can't get the price. I don't even know why you bother quantifying that. Its a given. But over time you'll still make money. The only question to ask is, how much time?

Cheers

No one is flaming.... There is no right or wrong concerning property investments. Some people buy a property and don't do anything. After 10 years it goes up by 50% they are happy. In between the property may dropped by 30% and as long as they don't sell they are ok.

What the guys are debating is this:
a) Depending on where, when and what you buy you may be able get 100% returns in 5 years. If you buy and sell at the right time you can get 150% returns.
b)Depending on where, when and what you buy you may be forced to sell (if you cannot keep the installments) at 30% less.

Be careful about the definition of making money. Singapore Inflation Rate from 1993 to 2008 = 24.3%. So if you buy a property in 1993 at 1m and sell in 2008 at 1.24m, you are not making money.

;)

Bionic Leek
20-09-09, 16:14
Would be really sad if anything I bought in 1993 isn't worth 30% more today. With the exception of HDB and super outer region housing.

dmonddd
20-09-09, 17:06
No one is flaming.... There is no right or wrong concerning property investments. Some people buy a property and don't do anything. After 10 years it goes up by 50% they are happy. In between the property may dropped by 30% and as long as they don't sell they are ok.

What the guys are debating is this:
a) Depending on where, when and what you buy you may be able get 100% returns in 5 years. If you buy and sell at the right time you can get 150% returns.
b)Depending on where, when and what you buy you may be forced to sell (if you cannot keep the installments) at 30% less.

Be careful about the definition of making money. Singapore Inflation Rate from 1993 to 2008 = 24.3%. So if you buy a property in 1993 at 1m and sell in 2008 at 1.24m, you are not making money.

;)

bull's eye.

DKSG
21-09-09, 22:06
Eeerrmmm ... lets stick to the P11 discussion ok ?

Thanks.

Bionic Leek
26-09-09, 17:20
Hmm driven past P11 a few times, very few people have moved in. Its quite surreal looking at the whole tower and seeing only 5 or 6 lit apartments with the hall windows thrown fully open. Quite cool.

I still think the units above 25th floor of the outside block are going to have a wonderful view.

DKSG, when is your open house? :)

andy
26-09-09, 17:50
Hmm driven past P11 a few times, very few people have moved in. Its quite surreal looking at the whole tower and seeing only 5 or 6 lit apartments with the hall windows thrown fully open. Quite cool.

I still think the units above 25th floor of the outside block are going to have a wonderful view.

DKSG, when is your open house? :)

The $psf of the last couple of transactions seem to be creeping up. So what's the real deal since no one is moving in.

Everyone trying to sell?

DKSG
28-09-09, 00:21
There are few people moving in before last week. Thats because of the 7th month.

This weekend, I think quite number moved in. This condo, the owner occupancy rate is relatively high (I think).

My place open house ? Eeerrmm ... u can private message me, I try to arrange. Renovation is more than 90% completed.

One important note to investors in this condo. PLEASE DO NOT hand your access card and keys to the agents. U can see agents with a stack of 10-20 access cards, with such a sight, do you think u can get good value ? Viewers go away with the impression that there are many many units available. And the agents will hold u ransom also.

Just my opinion. Cannot trust those agents 100%.

echotrain
28-09-09, 01:32
So many people selling Pavillion 11? Better not have too many speculators. All it takes is for one to panic and the price will plunge.

But if your key is not in the stack how can pple choose your unit?

DKSG
28-09-09, 22:57
For investors, carefully choose a dedicated agent.
Not those generic ones hanging around the place.

Hope this can be a lesson for newbies.

If u have many people viewing one unit, the unit's appeal will go up.
Thats why good agents arrange viewing by as many viewers as possible at nearly the same time.

If you have many units waiting for ONE person to view, then the unit's appeal would go down.

If you need more advice, can pm me. I am not too used to broadcast such best practices. I mention this this time round, coz it is happening in my condo. Though I not selling, but it pains me to see newbies making such mistakes. And agents capitalising on it like hungry vultures devouring their clients.

DKSG

focus
29-09-09, 11:17
For investors, carefully choose a dedicated agent.
Not those generic ones hanging around the place.

Hope this can be a lesson for newbies.

If u have many people viewing one unit, the unit's appeal will go up.
Thats why good agents arrange viewing by as many viewers as possible at nearly the same time.

If you have many units waiting for ONE person to view, then the unit's appeal would go down.

If you need more advice, can pm me. I am not too used to broadcast such best practices. I mention this this time round, coz it is happening in my condo. Though I not selling, but it pains me to see newbies making such mistakes. And agents capitalising on it like hungry vultures devouring their clients.

DKSG

So how does having a dedicated agent help to mitigate the MORE people viewing units and Less People Viewing Units example you were talking about?

DKSG
29-09-09, 13:18
In property sale, the quality of the viewing is more important than the quantity.

Agents like to tell you the story that if 100 view it, the chances of you selling it is 10 times better than 10 people viewing it.

But from my experience, this is certainly not the case.

I once have got 2 units on sale at the same time. Not sure if this is apple to apple comparison, but just to illustration.

One unit is available for viewing quite freely as the tenant is local and doesnt really travel. The other one, viewing is very difficult as tenant always travel.

At the end of the day, many got to view the easy one (easily 30 viewings) and the difficult one ? After 5 viewings, it got sold!

Agents must help you screen the viewers (esp if the unit is tenanted), else the tenant will soon find all sorts of reasons to stop the viewing (if I am the tenant, I will also do that).

Those who are very serious about buying your property will get to the unit. Those who browse browse, you should screen it out.

What I mean in the previous post is : I rather have 3 groups of people viewing my unit within the 20 mins range, so that they get to "meet" each other. Rather than have 8 viewers coming at one hour interval, making my unit like 7-11. Hope this clarifies. You may not agree with my thinking but thats fine, each has their own strategy, I am just sharing mine.

However, pls indicate if you are an agent. If you are, I do not wish to continue with answering your queries.

DKSG

focus
29-09-09, 16:42
Ok.. understood. You are saying that a dedicated agent can create the kind of atmosphere whereby prospects will see other prospects so they kind of leave with the impression that it is a hot property and they need to decide fast.

I'm not cut out to be a agent.. if not I will definitely enjoyed being a property agent..Can always be the first to pick up the bargain from the owner. :)

DKSG
29-09-09, 19:05
Hi Focus,

The good news is ... there are more good buys than agents in the market !
So there is still a very good chance to get a nice unit at the right price.

I got my P11 unit (abv 26 floor) at less than 1,050 psf !

Cheers!
DKSG

focus
29-09-09, 19:52
Hi Focus,

The good news is ... there are more good buys than agents in the market !
So there is still a very good chance to get a nice unit at the right price.

I got my P11 unit (abv 26 floor) at less than 1,050 psf !

Cheers!
DKSG

GOOD BUY! :) How you negotiate? Everytime I ask how low they can go .. they always cannot negotiate one.. even after you leave and wait for a week.. they still cannot negotiate.. like The Seaview.. locked in on #19-09 when it was $1200 around June.. 1 week later, it is asking $1400 ..and just recently..saw forum post it was transacted above $1400.. sheeze..

richie$$$
29-09-09, 20:57
agents forgot wht they supposed 2 do. close d deal n nt push up price
collect cheque n seller 2 sign on option n pass on 2 buyer but they flash cheque n get buyers to kill each othr. or some will collect fm buyers commission also altho acting 4 sellers.

if there's evidence, how can we charge them in court?

teddybear
29-09-09, 21:05
Congratulations! Last transacted $1380 psf. You "fatt" lor! :)


Hi Focus,

The good news is ... there are more good buys than agents in the market !
So there is still a very good chance to get a nice unit at the right price.

I got my P11 unit (abv 26 floor) at less than 1,050 psf !

Cheers!
DKSG

gemstone
29-09-09, 22:12
agents forgot wht they supposed 2 do. close d deal n nt push up price
collect cheque n seller 2 sign on option n pass on 2 buyer but they flash cheque n get buyers to kill each othr. or some will collect fm buyers commission also altho acting 4 sellers.

if there's evidence, how can we charge them in court?

You should be asking your lawyer:)

andy
29-09-09, 22:20
Congratulations! Last transacted $1380 psf. You "fatt" lor! :)

Yes I saw that today as well eventhough this is above #28.

I believe the value of this development has been creeping up.

However I'm still baffled if it is the views or is the location at the edge of Novena/Balestier the new D10.:cool:

jlrx
29-09-09, 23:08
Yes I saw that today as well eventhough this is above #28.

I believe the value of this development has been creeping up.

However I'm still baffled if it is the views or is the location at the edge of Novena/Balestier the new D10.:cool:

It's a actually a bargain, considering that 99-year condos in HDB areas like Centro @ Ang Mo Kio has hit $1,289 psf and TreVista @ Toa Payoh $1,222 psf.

What is $1,380 psf for a freehold property in District 11?

I think it will go higher. :cheers1:

mcmlxxvi
30-09-09, 08:58
It's a actually a bargain, considering that 99-year condos in HDB areas like Centro @ Ang Mo Kio has hit $1,289 psf and TreVista @ Toa Payoh $1,222 psf.

What is $1,380 psf for a freehold property in District 11?

I think it will go higher. :cheers1:

No doubt as property owners, we all celebrate the 1200psf of Centro. However, we all know that this unrealistic high price is due to FEO super holding power whom until today has 7-10 year old projects DEVELOPER UNITS still available for sale and simply are unwilling to lower asking prices to clear inventory.

As such, FEO projects should not be used for gauging true market value, especially when in comparison with other developers.

That said, as property owner of D12 I also wish it could be 1250psf hahaha if D11 is 1380.

DKSG
05-10-09, 23:32
Most developers can hold up to 3 years.

Its not only FEO who is holding. CapLand held on to the Rivergate site for so many years then launch.

In Singapore, the property market is controlled by a few players only. And not surprisingly, all of them want prices to go up. Throw in the government, who want prices to be stable (ie not going down, but also not up too sharply). Guess what is the result ?

Land is still a very scarce commodity in Sg. In time, less and less % of the island will be 'undeveloped'. In fact, look around, most of the areas right outside Orchard, Newton, Nassim areas are all developed already. There is really NO MORE land in these areas anymore, unless u demolish some buildings to make way for taller buildings.

Just my humble opinion.

Newbie Homebuyer
06-10-09, 21:02
Just noticed that there is actually another gate (both for cars and pedestrians) into P11 along Minbu Road. There's a makeshift security post (old man with a table) inside.

Anyone knows if that is a gate that can used day to day (is there some autosensor to open if you are driving in? or will the security guard open from inside?)? Or will it be closed in the future and only open for emergencies like fire etc...

I still notice that outside the main front gate along akyab road has a green railing on the right side and a cement ledge on the left... Weird....

DKSG
06-10-09, 22:36
I think they told me that the back gate will be opened for residents, but not car. I think they open the back gate to let the rubbish vehicle to come in to collect rubbish.

bargain hunter
16-12-09, 13:19
in last sat's classifieds:

3rm 1485sq ft #2x, city view, (20 more choice units) 4.5k up.
2rm 958sq ft 3.8k.

advert been running for months still no takers?

DKSG
18-12-09, 00:59
There are quite a few units holding out for sale at very high prices ...
These owners are reeling in big profits from the sale, so they are not so desperate to rent out their units.

Agents told me many potential buyers for P11 are looking for owner stay, so having a rented or unrented unit makes some differences in the chances for sale ...

I quite agree, if you are waiting for a 200 or 250K profit, what is $4.5K for a few months ?

My downstairs unit just got bought and the new neighbour is moving in in 1-2 mths ...

DKSG

Riverund
28-12-09, 22:47
Seems not many units, esp those on stack 3 and 7, are still up for rental..

Surprised that rentals are still down. Heard the best rates are 6k per mth??

Riverund
28-12-09, 23:04
Seems not many units, esp those on stack 3 and 7, are still up for rental..

Surprised that rentals are still down. Heard the best rates are 6k per mth??

proud owner
28-12-09, 23:06
Seems not many units, esp those on stack 3 and 7, are still up for rental..

Surprised that rentals are still down. Heard the best rates are 6k per mth??

there are many agents in this forum

they advertise here .. for sale and for rent ..

but theyNEVER ever commented on whats the real rental tahts gone thru .. in new and old projects

i see Hillcrest villa advertising 10k rental .. i know of a friend who managed to rent out at 9k after undercutting each other ..seems alot out for rent

2 yrs ago a rented a 2 bed room at RV .. remember they advertised 4.3k i negotiated to 3.5k ... and requested for partial furnishing .. and got it ..

i just checked .. its still around 3.5k so what is the true demand for rental ? no one really knows ... unless some kind hearted agent care to reveal ...

despite all the press saying more expats coming .. companies employing .. i really havent seen a pick up in rental ...

my feel is that .. there are alot more condos now than before .. and expats coming in are mere replacement of those let go last yr ..

so nett effect .. we may indeed have a surplus of condos out for rent ..

check out those 4 bedrooms .. over 2000 sqft .. looks terrible ...

i rememeber my GM rented 4 seasons .. paid 24k many years ago .. it is now an old condo .. asking only 15k ..
then again those new ones nearby CANT command 20k ... just reinforce my view that rental ..hard to go up

Latio
29-12-09, 08:49
Agrees with proud owner.

To me everything is cyclical....things will; come down esp with so much units coming on line.....

The unemployment is still very very very high in US and China....nothing has really improves fundamentally.....

mogyi
29-12-09, 09:11
How can rental goes up in the near future when thousands
of units will be available with the TOP of so many condos launched in the last few years... unless they is a significant additional influx of expats on top of those who are merely replacement of the former that has left...
In short..unlikely as i was told by my agent can cover monthly loan installments + maintainance is considered acceptable by some investers

Reporter
29-12-09, 10:39
Dec 12, 2009

Surge in asset prices to fuel inflation: HSBC

Rate could hit 4% next half-year as spending and home prices climb

By Fiona Chan

..........
..........

HSBC also expects the property market to continue to strengthen. Interest rates are still low, banks are still prepared to lend and households are not saddled with a lot of debt, which means borrowing to buy a home should be relatively cheap and easy.

Also, the huge number of property deals between March and September this year augurs well for prices, said Mr Prior- Wandesforde. According to his data, a jump in transactions often leads to a surge in housing prices.

The price gap between HDB flats and private homes is also close to the narrowest it has been since the 1990s, before which data is not available.

A narrow price gap usually means that more HDB dwellers will upgrade to private housing, Mr Prior-Wandesforde said.

He believes concerns of an oversupply are överblöwn. The 34,100 figure of unsold units in the third quarter of this year is much lower than the 43,400 in the 4th quarter of last year, and not far from the all-time low of 30,300 in 2007, he said.

All this means that Mr Prior-Wandesforde expects private home prices to rise an average of 2% to 3% for each quarter next year.
Fiona spent so much time writing the following:
"A concerns of an oversupply are överblöwn. The 34,100 figure of unsold units in the 3rd quarter of this year is much lower than the 43,400 in the 4th quarter of last year, and not far from the all-time löw of 30,300 in 2007."

But people still prefer making up stories and ignoring the boring facts.

Poor Fiona!

bargain hunter
29-12-09, 10:47
fiona is referring to unsold units. the discussion above is referring to sold units which are completing in the next 3 years but with the intention of leasing out. i think the published articles do not give an accurate picture of the oversupply because they refer only to unsold units. i guess their implicit assumption (since they do not discuss about units which people bought to lease out) is that all sold units can be held on to without the need for renting out. This is obviously not the case if you talk to agents. I am very surprised. You are a recent buyer of a district 9 property but you don't seem to discuss such issues with your agent very much but instead rely only on published news articles? Doesn't the on the ground reality matter more?


Fiona spent so much time writing the following:
"A concerns of an oversupply are överblöwn. The 34,100 figure of unsold units in the 3rd quarter of this year is much lower than the 43,400 in the 4th quarter of last year, and not far from the all-time löw of 30,300 in 2007."

But people still prefer making up stories and ignoring the boring facts.

Poor Fiona!

mogyi
29-12-09, 11:16
"But people still prefer making up stories and ignoring the boring facts.
"....
humm.. sounds exactly like one, but somehow people still doesnt realised in this republic island , media is "controlled"........ with propoganda

Reporter
29-12-09, 11:17
fiona is referring to unsold units. the discussion above is referring to sold units which are completing in the next 3 years but with the intention of leasing out. i think the published articles do not give an accurate picture of the oversupply because they refer only to unsold units. i guess their implicit assumption (since they do not discuss about units which people bought to lease out) is that all sold units can be held on to without the need for renting out. This is obviously not the case if you talk to agents. I am very surprised. You are a recent buyer of a district 9 property but you don't seem to discuss such issues with your agent very much but instead rely only on published news articles? Doesn't the on the ground reality matter more?
... cos' I ain't you ...
... I dun believe in hear-says, I believe in facts ...

I have not passed any judgement on any of the postings above (i.e. I did not say any of you were right or wrong).

Please show us figures to support the following claims so that others will not be misled:
1. "... my feel is that .. there are alot more condos now than before .. and expats coming in are mere replacement of those let go last yr ..

so nett effect .. we may indeed have a surplus of condos out for rent .."
2. "... the unemployment is still very very very high in ... China ..."
3. "... How can rental goes up in the near future when thousands
of units will be available with the TOP of so many condos launched in the last few years? ..."

Reporter
29-12-09, 11:19
"But people still prefer making up stories and ignoring the boring facts.
"....
humm.. sounds exactly like one, but somehow people still doesnt realised in this republic island , media is "controlled"........ with propoganda
And the reason we should ignore the figures but believe in your words would be?
And you are?

bargain hunter
29-12-09, 11:27
its not hear-says. i have worked with the agents i talk to for a long time so i know they are telling the truth about the reality out there.

you know that agents as a whole have an agenda to keep prices and rentals up because of the commissions they earn so how do you expect reports of the poor rental situation to be published at all?

anyway, its alright. you believe what you want to and i will do the same for my beliefs. afterall, you are the one who recently bought a district 9 property so good luck for your purchase. :)


... cos' I ain't you ...
... I dun believe in hear-says, I believe in facts ...

I have not passed any judgement on any of the postings above (i.e. I did not say any of you were right or wrong).

Please show us figures to support the following claims so that others will not be misled:
1. "... my feel is that .. there are alot more condos now than before .. and expats coming in are mere replacement of those let go last yr ..

so nett effect .. we may indeed have a surplus of condos out for rent .."
2. "... the unemployment is still very very very high in ... China ..."
3. "... How can rental goes up in the near future when thousands
of units will be available with the TOP of so many condos launched in the last few years? ..."

Reporter
29-12-09, 11:46
its not hear-says. i have worked with the agents i talk to for a long time so i know they are telling the truth about the reality out there.

you know that agents as a whole have an agenda to keep prices and rentals up because of the commissions they earn so how do you expect reports of the poor rental situation to be published at all?

anyway, its alright. you believe what you want to and i will do the same for my beliefs. afterall, you are the one who recently bought a district 9 property so good luck for your purchase. :)
You think the reason I posted has got to do with:
1. My recent purchase?
2. They have different believe from me?

You may be narrow-minded. I am not.

Do you know why I never argue with their observation that rental is bad? Because there are figures readily available to support the claim. There is nothing misleading about the observation.

They made more claims after that. I am just wondering if these claims are misleading. I am waiting for them to provide the figures to support these claims.

mogyi
29-12-09, 12:05
And the reason we should ignore the figures but believe in your words would be?
And you are?

when did i say anyone should listen to my words and ignore the facts?
and who are you?

teddybear
29-12-09, 12:08
Rentals got a lot to do with the locations and amenities around. Heard from agents that recently those condos in good convenient locations and with amenities nearby already got their rentals jacked up (in newly signed tenancy agreements). As such, rentals bad or going down is true for some places while not true for others. You have to experience that to believe that this is so.


its not hear-says. i have worked with the agents i talk to for a long time so i know they are telling the truth about the reality out there.

you know that agents as a whole have an agenda to keep prices and rentals up because of the commissions they earn so how do you expect reports of the poor rental situation to be published at all?

anyway, its alright. you believe what you want to and i will do the same for my beliefs. afterall, you are the one who recently bought a district 9 property so good luck for your purchase. :)

bargain hunter
29-12-09, 12:09
haha, i never thought your posting has anything to do with your recent d9 purchase. i really wanted to wish you well ahead of the new year so there is no need for personal attacks like saying others are narrow minded.

the oversupply situation discussed refers to the sold and going to TOP units so your article on oversupply relating to unsold units is not so relevant here.


You think the reason I posted has got to do with:
1. My recent purchase?
2. They have different believe from me?

You may be narrow-minded. I am not.

Do you know why I never argue with their observation that rental is bad? Because there are figures readily available to support the claim. There is nothing misleading about the observation.

They made more claims after that. I am just wondering if these claims are misleading. I am waiting for them to provide the figures to support these claims.

bargain hunter
29-12-09, 12:16
that is true. however, it is only happening at the very top end of the market actually. for the CCR but not luxury class, the rentals are actually neither falling nor going up. a very simple reason is that expats' company sponsored budget caps are still there eg 3k, 5k, 8k. as proud owner mentioned, the rental market for the big 4 bedrooms is particularly bad. many brand new ones are struggling to find tenants at 8k becoz there are not that many tenants with such a budget vs the number of units completed and coming up.


Rentals got a lot to do with the locations and amenities around. Heard from agents that recently those condos in good convenient locations and with amenities nearby already got their rentals jacked up (in newly signed tenancy agreements). As such, rentals bad or going down is true for some places while not true for others. You have to experience that to believe that this is so.

jlrx
29-12-09, 12:21
its not hear-says. i have worked with the agents i talk to for a long time so i know they are telling the truth about the reality out there.

you know that agents as a whole have an agenda to keep prices and rentals up because of the commissions they earn so how do you expect reports of the poor rental situation to be published at all?

anyway, its alright. you believe what you want to and i will do the same for my beliefs. afterall, you are the one who recently bought a district 9 property so good luck for your purchase. :)
You think the reason I posted has got to do with:
1. My recent purchase?
2. They have different believe from me?

You may be narrow-minded. I am not.

Do you know why I never argue with their observation that rental is bad? Because there are figures readily available to support the claim. There is nothing misleading about the observation.

They made more claims after that. I am just wondering if these claims are misleading. I am waiting for them to provide the figures to support these claims.

The rental has gone up again.

It is nothing fantastic, but it has gone up again.

I know because every now and then I have leases up for renewal.

In fact, due to the very low SIBOR rate of only 1+ %, the rentals are able to completely cover the mortgage, with extra few hundreds leftover per property per month.

But even if they do not cover, I am perfectly ok to come up with some of my own money to top up because, at the end of the day, I am going to own the property, not the tenant.

In fact, I feel a bit guilty that the tenants are helping me to pay for my properties. Sometimes I feel they must have owed me something in their previous lives.

Reporter
29-12-09, 12:21
"But people still prefer making up stories and ignoring the boring facts." ....

humm.. sounds exactly like one, but somehow people still doesnt realised in this republic island , media is "controlled"........ with propoganda

And the reason we should ignore the figures but believe in your words would be?
And you are?

when did i say anyone should listen to my words and ignore the facts?
and who are you?
I am someone who is still waiting for you to justify your claims.

bargain hunter
29-12-09, 13:26
if things are so rosy, why:

25 Akyab Road #21-05
Freehold
$1210
1485
$1796k
25 Aug 09


25 Akyab Road #27-05
Freehold
$1200
1485
$1782k
14 Sep 09


and the latest caveat is:

25 Akyab Road #22-05
Freehold
$1144
1485
$1700k
07 Dec 09

teddybear
29-12-09, 13:31
Don't try to hard to scrutinize too small a dataset because they are not representative of a bigger trend. If you look at other stacks and places and the picture is different.


if things are so rosy, why:

25 Akyab Road #21-05
Freehold
$1210
1485
$1796k
25 Aug 09


25 Akyab Road #27-05
Freehold
$1200
1485
$1782k
14 Sep 09


and the latest caveat is:

25 Akyab Road #22-05
Freehold
$1144
1485
$1700k
07 Dec 09

bargain hunter
29-12-09, 13:46
i am just learning from reporter, just as he highlights a single record psf, i am trying to do the same for falls. :D


Don't try to hard to scrutinize too small a dataset because they are not representative of a bigger trend. If you look at other stacks and places and the picture is different.

mogyi
29-12-09, 13:47
I am someone who is still waiting for you to justify your claims.

????? u can have the last say... i see that u needed that

teddybear
29-12-09, 13:54
Ok fair enough. :cheers1:


i am just learning from reporter, just as he highlights a single record psf, i am trying to do the same for falls. :D

jlrx
29-12-09, 17:14
i am just learning from reporter, just as he highlights a single record psf, i am trying to do the same for falls. :D
Ok fair enough. :cheers1:

Highlighting a single record psf is different from highlighting the falls within the potpourri of data.

The "record psf" serves a very important function, because it serves as a benchmark. Each "record psf" makes people sit up and notice the market.

Imagine this news headline say, sometime in the future, "First HDB Resale Closed Above $1 million". It will make people sit up and do some soul searching, or go have a walk in the garden to reflect about their lives.

On the other hand, within the potpourri of housing data, there will always be some which rise and some which fall. Even after, say, the first HDB resale closes above $1 million, there will continue to be some HDB flats which rise, and some which fall.

Reporter
29-12-09, 17:21
Highlighting a single record psf is different from highlighting the falls within the potpourri of data.

The "record psf" serves a very important function, because it serves as a benchmark. Each "record psf" makes people sit up and notice the market.

Imagine this news headline say, sometime in the future, "First HDB Resale Closed Above $1 million". It will make people sit up and do some soul searching, or go have a walk in the garden to reflect about their lives.

On the other hand, within the potpourri of housing data, there will always be some which rise and some which fall. Even after, say, the first HDB resale closes above $1 million, there will continue to be some HDB flats which rise, and some which fall.
Thanks for highlighting that bargain hunter, trying to get personal with me, is putting words in my mouth.

I did highlight the record psf. However, I don't remember concluding trend using any set of data. In fact, I don't remember concluding any trend so far.

bargain hunter is a dangerous guy. Need to be careful man!

jlrx
29-12-09, 21:55
Thanks for highlighting that bargain hunter, trying to get personal with me, is putting words in my mouth.

I did highlight the record psf. However, I don't remember concluding trend using any set of data. In fact, I don't remember concluding any trend so far.

bargain hunter is a dangerous guy. Need to be careful man!

You did not conclude any trend because you only "report" rather than "analyse". You should provide some analysis to your "reports" so as to make them more meaningful.

In fact, the "record psf" tells us a lot about the trend of the property market.

When the "record psf" goes up, that means the "average psf" has also gone up; although, within the potpourri of housing data, some specific units may go up or down.

For the same reason, in the area of income, the number of people earning more than $1 million per year serves as a very important benchmark.

From zero in 1988, to 100+ in 1998, to 3,838 in 2008, that is a trend.

Some people pointed out previously that this is not reflective of the general income trend for the population, as the pay of fresh graduates and toilet cleaners have stagnated over the past two decades. I beg to differ.

An increase in the topmost pay will pull up the average, even if the lowermost pay remains unchanged.

It's like the effect of global warming and the rising sea level.

All governments in the world are keeping watch on the highest point of the sea level, not on whether a certain water molecule 300 m below the Pacififc Ocean has gone down to 2000 m below, or another water molecule which was 1759 m below the surface of the Indian Ocean is now 25.9 m below the surface of the sea.

It is the surface sea level (equivalent to the "record psf") which tells us how much of the polar ice caps have melted, and whether coastal lines will remain or disappear.

bargain hunter
29-12-09, 22:27
i am just trying to provide some balance. blindly focusing on a single record psf was what the government highlighted back then in 2007 as dangerous. that was also why they introduced the median prices data for more transparency and to prevent people from overhyping a single record psf.

its funny because i have never concluded that prices are in a downtrend, you guys are the ones putting words in my mouth. I merely pointed out comparisons for same stacks and higher floors transacted at lower psf at later dates. Those are real facts that its possible for prices to be done within the same development at lower prices.


Thanks for highlighting that bargain hunter, trying to get personal with me, is putting words in my mouth.

I did highlight the record psf. However, I don't remember concluding trend using any set of data. In fact, I don't remember concluding any trend so far.

bargain hunter is a dangerous guy. Need to be careful man!

DKSG
30-12-09, 00:27
From an owner's pespective, analysing, reporting, whatever, using stack 5 is a bad idea.

Stack 5 is about the worst stack in the developement. Pls pardon me if you are reading this and you are in stack 5. Stack 3 and 7 has got unblocked view in front and on the right side. Stack 1 is blocked by Ansley up till level 21 I think. But stack 5 ... it is blocked by stack 3 !

Anyway, it is useless to try to talk up or down the market. I read with laughter the other forum where hundreds of people in Jun/Jul period cursed the record volume and convincingly predicted that the economy is on a W recovery and major crash in Q4 09 - Q1 2010. Now if they look back, they probably laugh at themselves.

If u think the market is going down, sell now. If u think the market is going up, buy now. No need to try convince others, unless u are willing to bear their losses.

Just my simple thoughts.

chweegrace
30-12-09, 20:28
can stack 6 see any flyer or casino if the unit is below 20 floor since it is unblocked?

Riverund
30-12-09, 23:34
Rentals got a lot to do with the locations and amenities around. Heard from agents that recently those condos in good convenient locations and with amenities nearby already got their rentals jacked up (in newly signed tenancy agreements). As such, rentals bad or going down is true for some places while not true for others. You have to experience that to believe that this is so.

In view of current rental mkt condition, would one then go for a 1-yr rental contract vs 2-yrs?

Just interesting to note the expat population at this development, judging by the ang mohs suntanning every weekend .... either at the pool or at their balcony!! Makes viewing the apartments available at P11 all the more interesting.

Wonder if tenant population will be similar at Montebleu....

DKSG
30-12-09, 23:45
For stack 1,2,3 have to clear 25th storey ...
For stack 5,6,7 have to clear 20th I think ... but to be sure, 23rd ...

Tomorrow got fireworks .. the first time since TOP, I think, owners can feedback which floors can see the fireworks ...

Riverund
23-01-10, 00:02
Seems prices at P11 is heading up or that owners r so confident and holding out for more!! Understand even upper floor stack 1 asking for >$1350++

Also, rental seems to be creeping up and its common to see rental at 6-7k plus for 3 bed-room.

Anyone has a rental income that beats this in this tan tock seng area??

proud owner
23-01-10, 00:10
Seems prices at P11 is heading up or that owners r so confident and holding out for more!! Understand even upper floor stack 1 asking for >$1350++

Also, rental seems to be creeping up and its common to see rental at 6-7k plus for 3 bed-room.

Anyone has a rental income that beats this in this tan tock seng area??

do you know someone .. and for a fact that a 3 bedroom is rented out at 6-7k ??

or did you hear from agent ?? or is 6-7k asking price ?

we need concrete actual case .. not hearsay ...

if you read my other posts .. NO AGENTS dare state for a fact the actual rental

Reporter
23-01-10, 00:12
do you know someone .. and for a fact that a 3 bedroom is rented out at 6-7k ??

or did you hear from agent ?? or is 6-7k asking price ?

we need concrete actual case .. not hearsay ...

if you read my other posts .. NO AGENTS dare state for a fact the actual rental
We need concrete actual case from you - not hearsay.

proud owner
23-01-10, 00:17
We need concrete actual case from you - not hearsay.

i wish i can provide that info

i am not an agent ... i wish to hear from agents what are the actual rents for each project ..

i know hillcrest villa was rented out at 9k .. after a price war between owners ..

teddybear
23-01-10, 07:32
My source told me that Novena condos (not apartments) 3BR of about 1200 sf can get $6k. About 1000 sf can get $5k.


Seems prices at P11 is heading up or that owners r so confident and holding out for more!! Understand even upper floor stack 1 asking for >$1350++

Also, rental seems to be creeping up and its common to see rental at 6-7k plus for 3 bed-room.

Anyone has a rental income that beats this in this tan tock seng area??

dmonddd
24-01-10, 17:36
how many units of P11 for sale in the market? someone told me >50%.

Reporter
24-01-10, 20:17
i wish i can provide that info

i am not an agent ... i wish to hear from agents what are the actual rents for each project ..

i know hillcrest villa was rented out at 9k .. after a price war between owners ..

My source told me that Novena condos (not apartments) 3BR of about 1200 sf can get $6k. About 1000 sf can get $5k.
We all know it is nice to debate on topics with juicing subjects as such "Will Rivergate drop below $1,000 psf?", "Rental is dropping as nobody is renting!", etc.. However, we should realise that situations can change and we need to be updated and change too.

For the Rivergate case, shouldn't we be discussing "Will Rivergate rise above $2,500 psf?" now that it has hit $1,909 psf?

For rental, why are we still talking about rental dropping, no tenant, etc.?
1. Rënt has rïsen 0.6% in Q4 2009.
2. Dëmänd for physically completed homes has hit a 9-year hïgh.
3. Occüpäncy rate has hit an äll-tïme hïgh of 95%.

Shouldn't we be discussing "Can CCR rent rise more than 12% this year?"? I believe this is more appropriate.


http://www.todayonline.com/App_Themes/Default/images/icons/WeekendTodayOnlineLogo.png
Private rentals inch upwards
Turnaround comes after 5 quarters of decline
Weekend Today
Saturday, 23 January 2010

Rentals of private residential properties inched 0.6% higher in the 4th quarter of last year, reversing 5 straight quarters of decline. This was a turnaround compared to a decrease of 2.2% posted in the third quarter of last year.

The uptick in rentals was supported by the take-up rate which outstrips supply last year, said Colliers International’s research and advisory director, Ms Tay Huey Ying.

“While the net increase in the stock of private homes hit a 5-year high of 8,285 units in 2009,
demand for physically completed homes hit a 9-year hïgh
, to record at 10,520 units,” she said.

This pushed
occupancy rate to an all-time hïgh of 95%
by end-2009, from 93.9% in end-2008,” she added.

The improving economy has a part to play as well.

“The leasing market also leveraged on the improving economic fundamentals in 2H2009 and began to stabilise,” said CBRE Research executive director Li Hiaw Ho.

By regions, rental of non-landed properties in the prime areas known as the Core Central Region (CCR) and the city fringe areas or Rest of Central Region (RCR) increased by 0.9% and 0.1% respectively in the 4th quarter.

Meanwhile, rental rates for properties in other areas or those known as Outside Central Region (OCR) remained unchanged.

Overall rentals have fallen 14.6% for the whole of last year but were back at mid-2007 levels by Q4, added Mr Li.

Colliers’ Ms Tay expect rents to rise by 5 to 10% this year.

“The number of expatriates is expected to rise in 2010 given the improving business climate and confidence that will lead more firms to consider re-activating hiring plans,” she added.

She expects high-end homes in the CCR, traditionally more popular with expatriates, to experience faster rental growth of 8% to 12%. The mid-tier segment in the RCR is expected to see rental upside of 5% to 8%, while mass-market homes could see rental movements of up to 3%, she added.

Meanwhile, Urban Redevelopment Authority’s final price index showed a growth of 7.4% quarter-on-quarter growth for private homes in Q4, slightly higher than the flash estimate of 7.3%.

Sub-sales clocked 599 units in the 4th quarter — down from 1,342 homes in the previous quarter. In percentage terms however, subsales accounted for 10.3% of all sale transactions in Q4, comparable to the 10.6% in Q3.

Analysts expect private property prices to moderate this year in the light of government’s stance that it would intervene with more measures should the property price growth runs ahead of the economy. Contrary to last year’s bull run in the mass market segment, high-end and luxury properties are expected to lead the market.

DKSG
24-01-10, 21:57
how many units of P11 for sale in the market? someone told me >50%.

Some agents must have told u that ... but good try ...

I reckon its not how many are for sale, but how much are the current asking prices ... I think every unit is for sale if you offer them 2K psf !

Riverund
24-01-10, 23:48
For rental, why are we still talking about rental dropping, no tenant, etc.?
1. Rënt has rïsen 0.6% in Q4 2009.
2. Dëmänd for physically completed homes has hit a 9-year hïgh.
3. Occüpäncy rate has hit an äll-tïme hïgh of 95%.

Shouldn't we be discussing "Can CCR rent rise more than 12% this year?"? I believe this is more appropriate.

Support the view that rental rates are creeping up. Seems rental offers are flooding in for good class condos (central location, good view/balcony for ang mohs & etc..)

Believe we are in a sweet spot now, caught between a recovering economy (means more expats) and supply crunch of rental units. In '08 many owners were quick to commit to low rent for cashflow security, taking units out of the chain and tied to 2-yr leases.

Would be interesting to see 2Q-3Q this year when Montebleu, Soleil, One Amber and other projects TOP....

The key question like you mentioned is how high is high for rental? Your guess's as good as mine..... stay tuned....

Newbie Homebuyer
26-01-10, 17:02
Seems prices at P11 is heading up or that owners r so confident and holding out for more!! Understand even upper floor stack 1 asking for >$1350++

Also, rental seems to be creeping up and its common to see rental at 6-7k plus for 3 bed-room.

Anyone has a rental income that beats this in this tan tock seng area??

Last few transactions seem to be around 11xx psf only? Any idea which stack amd how high the last one is?

chweegrace
21-02-10, 00:24
For stack 1,2,3 have to clear 25th storey ...
For stack 5,6,7 have to clear 20th I think ... but to be sure, 23rd ...

Tomorrow got fireworks .. the first time since TOP, I think, owners can feedback which floors can see the fireworks ...


Can see fireworks just now below 25 th storey. clear view. cool!

tigger13
28-02-10, 09:17
stack 5 see only half maybe even 1/3 fireworks. I should know. I live here. Stack 6 & 7 should be fine. Stack 3 needs to be above 23 floor to clear Ansley. Not sure about stack 1 but definitely needs some height to clear Ansley too.

Rental 6-7K? So my 2 cents? I am NOT paying that kind of rent for my 3-bedroom. Not even close. nuff said.

DKSG
28-02-10, 11:39
Stack 6,7 can see the entire fireworks ... Even the ones at Chinatown !

Stack 1,2,3 will have to be above 25 floor I think.

chweegrace
28-02-10, 12:41
Halo DKSG, i saw the chinatown fireworks on the 19 jan and also the one during chingay It is unblock fireworks view. I am at stack 2 below 25th floor. I think stack 1 one dun need to clear 25th floor maybe just 12 floor should see the fireworks beside the flyer. maybe the stack 1 resident can comment. anyway it is really relaxing to sit at the balcony and have a glass of wine in the evening...I really like the fireworks but i think our country fireworks still have more room for improvement.

ginseng1
19-04-10, 22:21
Envy all of you.

Is parking a problem so far?

I'm waiting for my Soleil to be ready.

Rysk
19-04-10, 23:07
car park lots only 40% occupied..

mogyi
19-04-10, 23:25
Envy all of you.

Is parking a problem so far?

I'm waiting for my Soleil to be ready.

normally, estates in the prime are heavily tenanted
thus lota of excess parking lots as expats usually dun
own cars ...compare to the heartland estate especially ECs .....
"neighbour fights over park space"

DKSG
19-04-10, 23:34
Ya man!

Tell me about it. The parking here is just great !
No need to worry if there are parking lots.

Only think I need to check is if I can get my favourite lot ! Haha!

I once own a condo, the residents actually proposed to the MCST that they should open up their carpark during the day to the public for park and ride (since the condo is very near a MRT) so that they can collect parking charges to defray maint costs !

The good thing abt P11 is that there are very few upgraders and people here are indeed gracious. I would be very reluctant to move out of this place.

DKSG

DKSG
29-04-10, 10:03
Hope I am not jumping ahead of Reporter who is the well respected Reporter here ...

Latest 2BR has hit $1,482 psf !!!

Rysk
29-04-10, 10:47
Hope I am not jumping ahead of Reporter who is the well respected Reporter here ...

Latest 2BR has hit $1,482 psf !!!

Tink is #31-03.. the highest 2 bedder unit with million $$ view

Reporter
29-04-10, 12:34
Hope I am not jumping ahead of Reporter who is the well respected Reporter here ...

Latest 2BR has hit $1,482 psf !!!No lah, don't say that! Can you all help to cover please? FIFA WC coming, I need to more spend time on the sofa ... :D Thanks!

Riverund
01-05-10, 00:53
it helps that the estate has a nice estate manageress....

teddybear
01-05-10, 08:48
Manageress? Why I read as "tigress"? :D


it helps that the estate has a nice estate manageress....

Rysk
03-08-10, 12:30
OCBC, Pastoral View owners sell sites together http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/...60740,00.html? (http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/suite/story/0,4574,396747-1280260740,00.html?)

Published July 27, 2010

OCBC, Pastoral View owners sell sites together


OCBC, which has owned a site at 11 Bassein Road in the Novena area since the 1940s, has teamed up with the owners of Pastoral View next door who are doing a collective sale, to sell the two properties together.

Both Pastoral View, which is at 7 Bassein Road, and OCBC's site, at 11 Bassein Road, are freehold.

'The sellers are expecting offers in the region of $130-150 million. This translates to a land rate of $904-1,043 per sq ft per plot ratio, after factoring in a marginal development charge of about $157,000 payable for No. 11 Bassein Road, to redevelop the site up to a 2.8 gross plot ratio. No DC is payable for Pastoral View,' said Tan Hong Boon, deputy managing director at Credo Real Estate, which is marketing the two properties.

More than 80 per cent of owners by share value and strata floor area at the 50-unit Pastoral View have signed a collective sale agreement. OCBC's next door property is an empty site.

The two sites have a combined land area of 51,395 sq ft and can be developed into a new condo with a gross floor area of 143,906 sq ft. This allows for a 36-storey project with 140 apartments of average size of 1,000 sq ft.

The site is zoned for residential use with a 2.8 plot ratio under Master Plan 2008.

Interested parties can bid for one or both sites.

'We believe developers would find the enlarged site more attractive because it would offer economies of scale and broaden their offering,' said Mr Tan.

There will be space for the winning developer to build a showflat before Pastoral View residents move out, Mr Tan said. This means that the developer can market the new project earlier, reducing holding costs and market risks.

Novena is home to office and retail blocks such as United Square, and hospitals such as Tan Tock Seng.

Credo believes that the new residential project will attract medical professionals and medical tourists.

Near Pastoral View, units at D'Ixoras have changed hands at more than $1,240 psf in the past two months, based on caveats lodged.

Jialet!! my unit at Pavilion 11 will be partially block by this project!!:scared-5:

DKSG
03-08-10, 13:12
Look at it another way.

Land cost is abt $950 ppr. Break even cost to developer is likely to be in the range of $1,350 psf including marketing costs.

Add a 15% meagre profit for the developer, this works out to be average selling psf of $1,550 psf.

High floors will be going for at least $1,750 psf !

If u bought P11 from developer or near developer's price, you are in for another windfall gain!

*DKSG has vested interest.

Riverund
21-12-10, 23:45
Any know what's this new building structure behind the Pastoral View, right on top of the hill, beside Ren Ci hospital? Is there new project coming on stream there?

Regulators
22-12-10, 11:01
It may be a branch of the Communicable disease Centre :doh:


Any know what's this new building structure behind the Pastoral View, right on top of the hill, beside Ren Ci hospital? Is there new project coming on stream there?

trump7
22-12-10, 14:09
[quote=Regulators]It may be a branch of the Communicable disease Centre :doh:[/quot

CDC will be moved out before long.
It has been showing as residential site with PR 2.8 in Masterplan2008.

Once medical school built and starts to get elite students, CDC in novena will be no longer operate. :2cents:
(Look at the site with mark "E", just right above current CDC site, that will be future medical school in Novena.)

http://image.fileslink.com/48d6dbc96fb37831/CDC_site.jpg

Regulators
22-12-10, 14:27
i think they should expand the CDC as more people are people are getting all kinds of funny diseases these days. Good to have Novena as a medical hub as it is very centralised.



[quote=Regulators]It may be a branch of the Communicable disease Centre :doh:[/quot

CDC will be moved out before long.
It has been showing as residential site with PR 2.8 in Masterplan2008.

Once medical school built and starts to get elite students, CDC in novena will be no longer operate. :2cents:
(Look at the site with mark "E", just right above current CDC site, that will be future medical school in Novena.)

http://image.fileslink.com/48d6dbc96fb37831/CDC_site.jpg

trump7
22-12-10, 15:00
[quote=Regulators]i think they should expand the CDC as more people are people are getting all kinds of funny diseases these days. Good to have Novena as a medical hub as it is very centralised.

Maybe government also think to expand CDC that is why planed to move CDC to other place.
Be careful that it may be moved to your OCR, ULU place!:p

Yep, Novena will be the center of medical hub that majorly handling those expensive aesthetic & wellness treatmentn and surgery for dental, skin laser and cosmetic for rich people in Singapore and its neighbor countries.

bargain hunter
22-12-10, 15:16
wow, the social status divide is getting worse.

mogyi
22-12-10, 15:26
wow, the social status divide is getting worse.

huh ???? how did social status come into the picture?

trump7
22-12-10, 15:29
wow, the social status divide is getting worse.

Yes, the world topic(話頭) for 2011 will be just what you said.

It will be widely divided by US quantitative easing policy.

Riverund
22-12-10, 17:06
Its actually nice to have the CDC around... adds lotsa greenery to the area. The P11 is caught in an interesting valley... Sky high prices(~$1500psf) at sky11 side, then down to Atre, Cube8, Thomson3something, then to lower Montebleu... before picking up again at Soleil then the Novena areas..

Wonder how the new developments along Balestier Road will be priced at..

Newbie Homebuyer
18-01-11, 17:57
Maybe it is a showroom for Pastoral View's new developers?

Newbie Homebuyer
20-01-11, 16:10
Maybe it is a showroom for Pastoral View's new developers?

Went to that area for lunch today and drove by that construction ...doesn't look like showroom. Look like office space - yet another temporary annex of TTSH???

I parked at the public car park behind the Balestier food centre. Interestingly, there seem to be some new construction there too. Not Nova, which has been there for a while but on the oppo side of Nova across the public car park ... I see some boarding up for construction. New development? May be a multi-storey car park?

mogyi
21-01-11, 11:24
Went to that area for lunch today and drove by that construction ...doesn't look like showroom. Look like office space - yet another temporary annex of TTSH???

I parked at the public car park behind the Balestier food centre. Interestingly, there seem to be some new construction there too. Not Nova, which has been there for a while but on the oppo side of Nova across the public car park ... I see some boarding up for construction. New development? May be a multi-storey car park?

not sure what's is that, but that was the site for showroom for nova cos i went before. This perhaps could be what you are looking for, FEO showroom
for the new project at pastoral view enblock site

Riverund
23-01-11, 22:18
Hmm... FEO working real fast to push the Pastoral View project out. Think it will market around 1600-1700psf?

mogyi
25-01-11, 17:09
Hmm... FEO working real fast to push the Pastoral View project out. Think it will market around 1600-1700psf?

When neighbors like zedge going TOP soon doing $1400+ to $1500+
any developer would price at $1600 to $1700 but with FEO
Strategy to sell minimal .... :scared-5:

Newbie Homebuyer
26-01-11, 08:54
What do you mean by "Strategy is to sell minimal"?

By the way, is it called Zedge or Vutton? I have of both names which seem to refer to same development.

bargain hunter
26-01-11, 13:58
Vutton was renamed Zedge soon after it was sold. not sure why. maybe louis "vutton" wanted to sue it. hahahahahhahahaha. removed the "i" liao still too similar.



What do you mean by "Strategy is to sell minimal"?

By the way, is it called Zedge or Vutton? I have of both names which seem to refer to same development.

mogyi
27-01-11, 09:31
[quote=Newbie Homebuyer]What do you mean by "Strategy is to sell minimal"?

FEO normally to not set their prices for maximum units sale during their launches, rather they tend to set their prices for precedences instead. If you look at their projects, you may see 30-50% sold compare to others 100%
but chances are FEO's project will set the the record psf in the neighbourhood.

Newbie Homebuyer
18-02-11, 18:03
Went there for lunch again. This time saw a sign in front of the entrance to the public car park (dunno why, last time i didn't see it ... maybe cock-eye last time)... Anyway, the sign said that that construction is to extend the surface car park ... i was close, my guess was multi storey car park..

Rysk
26-06-11, 18:36
Yet another record breaking price.. this time is at Pavilion 11.
Big & Small unit all HUAT Ah!

PAVILION 11 AKYAB ROADCondominium11,588,000958Strata1,658Jun-11PAVILION 11 AKYAB ROADCondominium11,478,000958Strata1,543Jun-11PAVILION 11 AKYAB ROADCondominium12,200,0001,485Strata1,481May-11

kingkong1984
26-06-11, 19:07
Vutton was renamed Zedge soon after it was sold. not sure why. maybe louis "vutton" wanted to sue it. hahahahahhahahaha. removed the "i" liao still too similar.

same with amanusa or something like that.. FH cluster housing near to Calrose.

That one changed after being sue'd.....

hahaha..

Riverund
17-07-11, 23:18
Hi, was wondering at Soleil transacted prices of >$1,600psf for 1,000sf unit while Pavilion and the other projects are doing slightly below this.

Anyone know the reason for this?

Yin Yin
17-07-11, 23:41
Hi, was wondering at Soleil transacted prices of >$1,600psf for 1,000sf unit while Pavilion and the other projects are doing slightly below this.

Anyone know the reason for this?


I think Pavillion 11, Ansley, Mandale are undervalued considering the relatively good location. Montebleu is doing closer (among the 3 former names mentiomed though still a noticeable gap) to Soleil even though both posses different attributes. So the year of TOP probably makes a difference..people prefer newly TOP or UC projects???

Riverund
18-07-11, 00:10
You mentioned undervalued... you see the area going to 1,600-1800psf? Hitting similar prices as at the Lincoln sites?

ecimbew
18-07-11, 20:44
Pav 11 is a nice condo. Built near the hill top. If you walk up Akyab road and Bassein road, you will reach Ren Ci nursing home (a stretch of single storey old Tan Tock Seng Hospital) before reaching the existing hospital. But it's an uphill task. Once you are there, you can walk through the hospital to reach Novena Square and Square 2.

If you plan to go to Balestier road, you just need to go down the hill in the direction of Prome road. You will reach Boon Tong Kee at the road entrance.

Riverund
18-07-11, 23:52
Hahaa.. looks like you are enjoying the beauty of the development and its location!

so now on towards $1,600psf for the 3 bedders & $1,800psf for the 2bedders!!

Just glad it has none of the concerns that were raised on M21 that's just down the road...

SBF
26-07-11, 17:14
Could you post a picture of your private lift lobby ? Or could you refer a designer for me? I very much need such idears since we currently have one glass panel to make up as well!--only put up some of my kid's artwork right now, I am just thinking of a curtain to block the view (but let light to go through). anyway, in my opinion, glass still better than solid wall.

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