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cndomay
14-07-09, 21:13
Checked out the site this evening. Serious building has already begun.

Has it been launched yet?

How long does it takes to walk to the Toa Payoh MRT? ( 20 mins I estimate )

The area has a concrete jungle feel, with the ultra tall apartments nearby.

blueb
15-07-09, 20:58
I may be wrong but don't recall seeing it launched.
About 15-20 min walk, depending on the speed of walking.

cndomay
16-07-09, 20:46
just across the road, amongst the hdb blocks, there is a big cluster of shophouses, including at least 2 coffee shops. this is a plus point - convenient and keep down cost of living. dun know when they were built but they gave me a feeling of an older time zone when i walked by the shops.

rogerang
29-07-09, 18:33
Check www.rogerang.com (http://www.rogerang.com) for updates!


New Launch Much Awaited For!

A New Vision For Luxury at Toa Payoh
(Junction of Lorong 2/3 Toa Payoh)
Nestled within matured Toa Payoh estate with convenient amenities
Only 3 minutes walk to Braddell MRT station & 5 minutes walk to HDB hub/Toa Payoh MRT

Development
3 tower blocks of 39 storey condominium with basement carpark
Panoramic view of MacRitchie Reservoir and city skyline
Wide unit types - Studio, 1+Study, 2, 2+study, 3, 4 bedrooms

Location
Easy accessibility to all parts of Singapore via PIE and CTE
Close proximity to Pei Chun Public School, CHIJ (Toa Payoh), St Andrew’s Village, Catholic
Junior College and renowned International schools

Facilities
50m Lap Pool, Aqua Gym, Spa Alcove, Water Lounge Pool, Party Pavilions, Rock Climbing Wall, Tennis Court, Aroma Garden, Golf Putting Green, Basket ball Practice Corner, Elderly Fitness Corner, sky terrace with fitness stations /pavilions and more

azeoprop
29-07-09, 19:10
Hopefully not another 1200psf project like the one in ang mo kio....:rolleyes: If like 700-800psf still got hope.

bargain hunter
29-07-09, 19:29
hehehe,u are very hopeful...even though NTUC choice home name implies they got public duty but sure above 1000psf one lah...


Hopefully not another 1200psf project like the one in ang mo kio....:rolleyes: If like 700-800psf still got hope.

cndomay
29-07-09, 20:51
hehehe,u are very hopeful...even though NTUC choice home name implies they got public duty but sure above 1000psf one lah...

heard on radio this evening. Mah is not sure the recent high prices in launched projects are justifiable. wonder will there be measures to cool the steep rise in prices.

overall, there is a scary feeling when URA is getting concerned....

bargain hunter
29-07-09, 22:08
yup, the full article was actually out at 12pm this afternoon, also found in a seperate thread entitled "Signs of speculation in private property market"




heard on radio this evening. Mah is not sure the recent high prices in launched projects are justifiable. wonder will there be measures to cool the steep rise in prices.

overall, there is a scary feeling when URA is getting concerned....

Honesty
29-07-09, 22:59
yup, the full article was actually out at 12pm this afternoon, also found in a seperate thread entitled "Signs of speculation in private property market"

Beware Buyers!!!!:scared-5: :scared-5: :scared-5:

Below is what the real market we are in:-

"He added that it is uncertain if the buying momentum seen in recent months can be sustained."

"The forecast is still for negative growth this year. Although it's not as negative as it was in the beginning of the year. I think there is still uncertainty... But what is important really is for all of us, all the players in the market, to make sure that the market remains healthy," said Mr Mah.

magdalene
30-07-09, 08:59
3 mins walk from MRT??? more like 3 mins run :doh:

Daniel_Yee
30-07-09, 09:31
Agree.. about 200m from streetdirectory.com So based on my 2.4km walking time, will take me about 4mins to reach. Anyway, another HDB surrounded condo.



3 mins walk from MRT??? more like 3 mins run :doh:

cndomay
30-07-09, 21:16
Agree.. about 200m from streetdirectory.com So based on my 2.4km walking time, will take me about 4mins to reach. Anyway, another HDB surrounded condo.

up to 10 mins walk to mrt can be considered convenient.

although surrounded by hdb, this place is quite conveneint. and tpy is quite central.

nearby hdb 5 rm is asking for about $630K.

so, if trevista can get a 860 sqft ( 80 sqm ) 2 room for abt $800k ( $930 PSF ), will it be safe to take up? this is just an assumption, as the pricing is not known yet. anything above $1000 psf will not be considered.

DC33_2008
30-07-09, 21:26
up to 10 mins walk to mrt can be considered convenient.

although surrounded by hdb, this place is quite conveneint. and tpy is quite central.

nearby hdb 5 rm is asking for about $630K.

so, if trevista can get a 860 sqft ( 80 sqm ) 2 room for abt $800k ( $930 PSF ), will it be safe to take up? this is just an assumption, as the pricing is not known yet. anything above $1000 psf will not be considered.

Asking price could be close to $1000psf looking at the current property barometer.

Sea
30-07-09, 23:29
Most sought after brand new landmark in Toa Payoh


þ Nestled within matured Toa Payoh estate with convenient amenities



þ Only 3 minutes walk to Braddell MRT station & 5 minutes walk to HDB hub/Toa Payoh MRT


þ 3 tower blocks of 39 storey condominium with basement carpark


þ Panoramic view of MacRitchie Reservoir and city skyline


þ Wide unit types - Studio, 1+Study, 2, 2+study, 3, 4 bedrooms


þ Easy accessibility to all parts of Singapore via PIE and CTE


þ Close proximity to Pei Chun Public School , CHIJ (Toa Payoh), St Andrew’s Village, Catholic
Junior College and renowned International schools


þ 50m Lap Pool, Aqua Gym, Spa Alcove, Water Lounge Pool, Party Pavilions, Rock Climbing Wall,
Tennis Court, Aroma Garden , Golf Putting Green, Basket ball Practice Corner, Elderly Fitness
Corner, sky terrace with fitness stations /pavilions and more


Dont miss it


Sms at 90686016 for more details

rattydrama
30-07-09, 23:51
Developer now have to be realistic as there are so many projects coming up.

Usually when the government make noise, it is a signal to the developers that they should not be too aggressive in their pricing.

So I guess 1000psf will be a challenge for the developers now unlike 3 weeks ago. :-)

bargain hunter
31-07-09, 00:08
i don't know what are the sizes but the way this is written makes it sound like above 1200psf.




Most sought after brand new landmark in Toa Payoh


þ Nestled within matured Toa Payoh estate with convenient amenities



þ Only 3 minutes walk to Braddell MRT station & 5 minutes walk to HDB hub/Toa Payoh MRT


þ 3 tower blocks of 39 storey condominium with basement carpark


þ Panoramic view of MacRitchie Reservoir and city skyline


þ Wide unit types - Studio, 1+Study, 2, 2+study, 3, 4 bedrooms


þ Easy accessibility to all parts of Singapore via PIE and CTE


þ Close proximity to Pei Chun Public School , CHIJ (Toa Payoh), St Andrew’s Village, Catholic
Junior College and renowned International schools


þ 50m Lap Pool, Aqua Gym, Spa Alcove, Water Lounge Pool, Party Pavilions, Rock Climbing Wall,
Tennis Court, Aroma Garden , Golf Putting Green, Basket ball Practice Corner, Elderly Fitness
Corner, sky terrace with fitness stations /pavilions and more


Dont miss it


Sms at 90686016 for more details

cndomay
31-07-09, 05:41
- anyone with experience on this: will getting home ( to trevista ) in the evening by car be a problem in terms of heavy traffic. and vice versa getting out to work by car.

- the site area ( 13,955 sqm ) looks small as it is sited near a road junction and with buidlings close by. but it is slightly larger than optima ( 9875 sqm ). the eye can play tricks.

- covenience wise, it is good as there are hdb shops opposite to eat and do simple shopping. but as it is surrounded by hdb, certain groups are put off, which means lesser demand when time comes for resale or rental.

- a pricing of $950 - $1000 PSF may be inevitable based on base cost of developer. it could be much more as the launch is timed to catch the rising acceptance of the market.

qianfugui
31-07-09, 10:59
i don't know what are the sizes but the way this is written makes it sound like above 1200psf.

Last time when the HomeChoice bought with JV partner , heard expected break-even psf is around 850 psf. If they try to sell at AMK above 1,000 psf, then siao liao.

View wise, Only macritchie for above 30 sty, No more city-view as there is 5 blocks of 40 sty (Blk 79A - E) right in front of it. Right across the road is 4 x 43 sty of DBSS too. Not much of difference actually. Only selling point is 3 minutes to Braddell MRT stn. Except for condo facilities (rental wise) , it is smack right with all HDB blocks. Quite cluttered and high density for the Lor 1/ Lor 2.

bargain hunter
31-07-09, 11:18
oh well, developers are capitalising on these currently "rare" condo plots, only 1 in AMK, 1 in Toa Payoh, 1 in Tanah Merah to sell high. there are many possible future plots but currently only 1 each so they are really maximising their profits.




Last time when the HomeChoice bought with JV partner , heard expected break-even psf is around 850 psf. If they try to sell at AMK above 1,000 psf, then siao liao.

View wise, Only macritchie for above 30 sty, No more city-view as there is 5 blocks of 40 sty (Blk 79A - E) right in front of it. Right across the road is 4 x 43 sty of DBSS too. Not much of difference actually. Only selling point is 3 minutes to Braddell MRT stn. Except for condo facilities (rental wise) , it is smack right with all HDB blocks. Quite cluttered and high density for the Lor 1/ Lor 2.

Regulators
31-07-09, 13:09
if private plots in the hdb heartlands considered rare coz condo residents can share in hdb amenities, then hdb upgraders really have nothing much to upgrade liao...no point paying $700000 MORE for a condo just to enjoy having the pool, tennis court, security guard, gym, barbecue pit. hdb residents can continue staying in their highrise hdb and join a country club menbership, use the facilities until sick and can still sell the membership at a profit...



oh well, developers are capitalising on these currently "rare" condo plots, only 1 in AMK, 1 in Toa Payoh, 1 in Tanah Merah to sell high. there are many possible future plots but currently only 1 each so they are really maximising their profits.

cndomay
01-08-09, 08:38
on a typical workday ard 6pm, the internal driving conditions in lor 2/lor 3 is not an issue. but nowaday's it is the expressway getting clogged very often. the traffic on PIE heading east on a typical work day at 6 pm is bad.

trevista is encircled by tall hdb ( an issue of concern ). there is no worthy views unless one get the very top 39th storey.

based on some asking prices of hdb in vicinity, a price of abt $880K for a trevista 2 room ard 900 sq ft, mid level, is the max to consider.

qianfugui
01-08-09, 11:39
on a typical workday ard 6pm, the internal driving conditions in lor 2/lor 3 is not an issue. but nowaday's it is the expressway getting clogged very often. the traffic on PIE heading east on a typical work day at 6 pm is bad.

trevista is encircled by tall hdb ( an issue of concern ). there is no worthy views unless one get the very top 39th storey.

based on some asking prices of hdb in vicinity, a price of abt $880K for a trevista 2 room ard 900 sq ft, mid level, is the max to consider.

Honestly, the plus thing abt Trevista is central location in Toa Payoh, 3 minutes to Braddell MRT stn. Folks who bgt The Peak@Toa Payoh across the road are much better off without having to pay for the maintenance of Condo facilities. The Peak is higher at 43 sty and better space out compared to Trevista 3 towers of 39 sty within a compact area. No wind or breathing space with all the Great Wall of Toa payoh Central (5 blks of 40 sty). No view at all facing south ,West and East. Only view is North towards Bishan .
Beak-even price for developer is above 850 psf.

august
01-08-09, 14:26
just bcos a kuku/greedy developer price amk at over 1150psf means that TPY or other suburban mass mkt condo will naturally be at 900 to 1k psf lvl.. hdb heartland condo fair value no more than 7xx psf

so dun fall into this kind of psychological trap :eek:

rogerang
04-08-09, 09:05
Tentative launch mid August. do check www.rogerang.com (http://www.rogerang.com) for latest updates. tks.

Sea
05-08-09, 10:00
booking now.....

Sea
05-08-09, 10:03
Open for Booking Now!!!

Sms at 90686016 for more details!!!

Dont miss it!!

cl0ver
05-08-09, 10:17
Honestly, the plus thing abt Trevista is central location in Toa Payoh, 3 minutes to Braddell MRT stn. Folks who bgt The Peak@Toa Payoh across the road are much better off without having to pay for the maintenance of Condo facilities. The Peak is higher at 43 sty and better space out compared to Trevista 3 towers of 39 sty within a compact area. No wind or breathing space with all the Great Wall of Toa payoh Central (5 blks of 40 sty). No view at all facing south ,West and East. Only view is North towards Bishan .
Beak-even price for developer is above 850 psf.

those ppl earning more than 10k a month how to buy the Peak?
based on Optima pricing, i think this one should be around 900psft...
it would be foolish to follow FEO

teddybear
05-08-09, 10:55
Some how, Singaporeans like to buy and dislike old? Imagine paying >=$1200 psf for NEW 99 years LH condo in AMK and Toa Payoh? Ha ha ha! Look harder and there are actually much better bargains else where and in District 09, 10, and 11 (more prestigeous estates and not surrounded by HDBs, although older condo units and slightly higher price)! Want new? Just renovate the whole resale unit based on own Interior design and it will look new and furthermore to your best liking! Not convinced? When you pay sky high prices to buy new, after a few years still become old right? What is the difference? If renovate by ownself, can even have more freedom to do as one likes (don't have to accept the crap finishing & fitting from the developers).


i don't know what are the sizes but the way this is written makes it sound like above 1200psf.

sabian
05-08-09, 12:18
Some how, Singaporeans like to buy and dislike old? Imagine paying >=$1200 psf for NEW 99 years LH condo in AMK and Toa Payoh? Ha ha ha! Look harder and there are actually much better bargains else where and in District 09, 10, and 11 (more prestigeous estates and not surrounded by HDBs, although older condo units and slightly higher price)! Want new? Just renovate the whole resale unit based on own Interior design and it will look new and furthermore to your best liking! Not convinced? When you pay sky high prices to buy new, after a few years still become old right? What is the difference? If renovate by ownself, can even have more freedom to do as one likes (don't have to accept the crap finishing & fitting from the developers).

The same kind of thinking manifests itself in the car market. Just that the developers cottoned onto this in the last few years.

sabian
05-08-09, 12:18
duplicate post

teddybear
05-08-09, 13:10
Yes, may be I am outdated. I am the kind that drive a new car until almost 10 years old type (or when COE is so cheap at $2 that replacing the old car is more cost-savings).


The same kind of thinking manifests itself in the car market. Just that the developers cottoned onto this in the last few years.

wreckwrx
05-08-09, 13:14
The same kind of thinking manifests itself in the car market. Just that the developers cottoned onto this in the last few years.

Similar symptons but very different fundamentals behind it. Car value depreciates over time whereas most owners expect their properties to appreciate in value as time goes on..... Hence property owners will only sell if they are offered a price higher than what they had paid previously. Not sure if ever see the day if owners are flogging 2nd hand units at a lower price (like selling our 2nd hand laptops cheaper).

teddybear
05-08-09, 14:44
With inflation ragging on and massive money printing, doubt you will see 2nd hand property selling at cheaper price. There was a time that even 2nd hand cars are selling at much higher price than when the owners bought them new (because the COE increases from $20+k to $50+k).

Those people buy new house pay so much higher than old ones still become old after a few years and still get crap NEW finishing, what for?


Similar symptons but very different fundamentals behind it. Car value depreciates over time whereas most owners expect their properties to appreciate in value as time goes on..... Hence property owners will only sell if they are offered a price higher than what they had paid previously. Not sure if ever see the day if owners are flogging 2nd hand units at a lower price (like selling our 2nd hand laptops cheaper).

rogerang
05-08-09, 16:27
Hi all,

Site plan updated to www.rogerang.com (http://www.rogerang.com)

Thanks for the interest.

noblebaby
08-08-09, 10:51
what is the psf? hope it is not another centro... :banghead:


Hi all,

Site plan updated to www.rogerang.com (http://www.rogerang.com)

Thanks for the interest.

rogerang
09-08-09, 11:14
Hi, uploaded some layouts to my website www.rogerang.com (http://www.rogerang.com)

rogerang
09-08-09, 11:19
Price after discount shd be $9xxpsf.
layout plans uploaded to my website www.rogerang.com (http://www.rogerang.com)

cl0ver
09-08-09, 14:02
looks crowded to each other...

cndomay
12-08-09, 20:20
Was quite keen on this project as TPY is quite central.

The expected launch price is a dampener. Plus, the feedback that this is a project surrounded by HDB is a real fact to consider. Just stand at the nearby esso station and the sense towering blocks are quite stunning.

Am quite puzzled by the silence in this thread. Perhaps, the buyers have quietly made up their minds and will throng the showroom on vip preview day.....and make it a sellout in 3 days...or less.

cndomay
12-08-09, 20:21
Was quite keen on this project as TPY is quite central.

The expected launch price is a dampener. Plus, the feedback that this is a project surrounded by HDB is a real fact to consider. Just stand at the nearby esso station and the sense of the towering blocks are quite stunning.

Am quite puzzled by the silence in this thread. Perhaps, the buyers have quietly made up their minds and will throng the showroom on vip preview day.....and make it a sellout in 3 days...or less.

bargain hunter
12-08-09, 22:25
yeah, indeed its very quiet on this thread. when is the preview day?


Was quite keen on this project as TPY is quite central.

The expected launch price is a dampener. Plus, the feedback that this is a project surrounded by HDB is a real fact to consider. Just stand at the nearby esso station and the sense of the towering blocks are quite stunning.

Am quite puzzled by the silence in this thread. Perhaps, the buyers have quietly made up their minds and will throng the showroom on vip preview day.....and make it a sellout in 3 days...or less.

Sea
13-08-09, 13:58
TREVISTA Preview Time Line


Date : Targeting 28 Aug 09 (Fri)

Booking starts now!!!


Sms at 90686016 for more details


Thanks

dfstan
14-08-09, 09:30
i wouldn't bother with this project.

sleek
14-08-09, 09:41
Will go and check-out the ID works & finishing since the 3BR layout is similar to 8@W. ;)

azeoprop
14-08-09, 15:18
Seems rather quiet for this thread....unlike optima...where are all the potential buyers? :rolleyes:

sleek
14-08-09, 15:29
Seems rather quiet for this thread....unlike optima...where are all the potential buyers? :rolleyes:

In hiding and waiting to chiong and buy! ;)

tanumy
14-08-09, 16:00
This project is too expensive than why not consider buying double bay 3 bedder at $6xx psf only. Gr8 investment potential near simei due to upcoming singapore 4th uvi.

dfstan
14-08-09, 16:05
In hiding and waiting to chiong and buy! ;)

those are the cultprits to boost up ppty prices.... haiz

sleek
14-08-09, 16:15
This project is too expensive than why not consider buying double bay 3 bedder at $6xx psf only. Gr8 investment potential near simei due to upcoming singapore 4th uvi.

If its being target at HDB upgraders, mainly those who are staying around TPY, then its very difficult to convince them of better priced units out of TPY.

Also, as most may be for self-stay, then the proximity to whatever Uni will not outweigh the conveniences of TPY. :2cents:

tanumy
14-08-09, 16:21
still not worth to buy such expensive project. Upside limited and look at double bay in simei. Town area not that far too. Changi business park is upcoming.

jitkiat
14-08-09, 16:22
If its being target at HDB upgraders, mainly those who are staying around TPY, then its very difficult to convince them of better priced units out of TPY.

Also, as most may be for self-stay, then the proximity to whatever Uni will not outweigh the conveniences of TPY. :2cents:

Let's see whether TPY HDB upgraders can swallow 1000psf, double that of The Peak. Already, The Peak has a hard time selling the 110sqm 5-room HDB costing 600k.

sleek
14-08-09, 16:30
still not worth to buy such expensive project. Upside limited and look at double bay in simei. Town area not that far too. Changi business park is upcoming.
Very hot questions as to why people are buying at such prices. :scared-1:

Think what probably irks you more will be the fact that Optima sold-out in 3 days while DBR still clearing units. :rolleyes:

jitkiat
14-08-09, 17:07
Very hot questions as to why people are buying at such prices. :scared-1:

Think what probably irks you more will be the fact that Optima sold-out in 3 days while DBR still clearing units. :rolleyes:
What to do? Optima has 天时地利人和 ...but the real test will be in subsale market :old-chinese-guy: Casa Merah 2bedrooms subsales transacted only at 790psf, DBR at 770psf ... how to flip Optima at 950-1000psf? Those who buy subsale is not as foolish as the showflat crowd.

cndomay
14-08-09, 19:23
i wouldn't bother with this project.


why?

btw, ERA likely to peg Trevista to Centro ( $1100 to $1200 psf average). They call it compettive pricing!

sleek
14-08-09, 20:49
What to do? Optima has 天时地利人和 ...but the real test will be in subsale market :old-chinese-guy: Casa Merah 2bedrooms subsales transacted only at 790psf, DBR at 770psf ... how to flip Optima at 950-1000psf? Those who buy subsale is not as foolish as the showflat crowd.

Believe this subsales were done before Optima was launched, so we need to look at the more recent subsales to see the effect. ;)

azeoprop
16-08-09, 15:36
So when is the vvip preview of this trevista?

Honesty
16-08-09, 17:21
why?

btw, ERA likely to peg Trevista to Centro ( $1100 to $1200 psf average). They call it compettive pricing!

Logically since the market is recovering the prices will go up progreesively, but if every new project launch it go up by $100 or $200 psf then when it going to end?

If $1,200 psf for Toa Payoh area for 3 rms size of 1,100 sq ft, the quantum will be 1.3 million. How many can afford? Who would be the next one to buy the next high?

NO end to it...Poor thing...keep chasing...:scared-3: :scared-3: :scared-3:

sleek
16-08-09, 18:59
So when is the vvip preview of this trevista?

There are agent promoting and getting prospective buyer to sign up for the VVIP Preview at the Link Bridge between the MSCP & Junction 8 this afternoon. :doh:

So you looking for another investment? ;)

azeoprop
16-08-09, 20:00
no money liaoz lah....eating grass....:(

cndomay
18-08-09, 05:50
how about some all important info to think about:

lowest and highest price for a 2 bedroom is?

Sea
18-08-09, 09:27
TREVISTA Preview Time Line


Date : Targeting 28 Aug 09 (Fri)

Booking starts now!!!


Sms at 90686016 for more details


Thanks

jitkiat
18-08-09, 10:13
how about some all important info to think about:

lowest and highest price for a 2 bedroom is?

156 Lor 1 Toa Payoh 06 to 10 101.00
Model A 1999 $495,000.00

10-year old 4-room HDB is about 500psf. New DBSS 4-room about 570-600psf.
At 750psf, almost everybody who has a 4-room HDB in TPY will q overnight to buy.
At 850psf, 70% of people still rush to buy.
At 950psf, 30% of people still buy.

90sqm condo at same location, my best guess will be x2 = 1000psf. Older condo at 740sqft already sold for > 1000psf

TRELLS TOWERS (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28%27submitSISV.do?project_name=TRELLIS%20TOWERS&street_name=LORONG%201%20TOA%20PAYOH&property_type_code=24%27%29;) LORONG 1 TOA PAYOH $740,000 710sqft 1,042psf Jun-09

bargain hunter
18-08-09, 10:16
wah, so poor response ah? got to keep reposting your advert every few days and still no one responds.

cndomay
18-08-09, 21:01
appreciate your knowledge of the prices.

the trellis example: works out to $727K. affordable but the small size ( 710 sf ) is another matter. and trellis is FH.

some feel trevista being surrounded by hdb cannot command much premium in price. but some will feel that it is a jewel amongst the stones. haha

blueb
20-08-09, 20:26
90sqm condo at same location, my best guess will be x2 = 1000psf. Older condo at 740sqft already sold for > 1000psf

TRELLS TOWERS (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28%27submitSISV.do?project_name=TRELLIS%20TOWERS&street_name=LORONG%201%20TOA%20PAYOH&property_type_code=24%27%29;) LORONG 1 TOA PAYOH $740,000 710sqft 1,042psf Jun-09
Thanks for posting this. As mentioned by cndomay (http://forums.condosingapore.com/member.php?u=26241), Trellis is FH, so not exactly a direct comparison. However, I agree that the pricing may be around $950-1000psf as in this current buoyant market, many buyers will still go in coupled with the smaller sized units increasing the "affordability" factor.
With Centro priced >$1000, Trevista may seem like a "steal" if priced likewise.

blueb
21-08-09, 09:11
wah, so poor response ah? got to keep reposting your advert every few days and still no one responds.

Ok, I respond :) ...Any price ranges for Trevista?

dunatos
21-08-09, 21:53
Thanks for posting this. As mentioned by cndomay (http://forums.condosingapore.com/member.php?u=26241), Trellis is FH, so not exactly a direct comparison. However, I agree that the pricing may be around $950-1000psf as in this current buoyant market, many buyers will still go in coupled with the smaller sized units increasing the "affordability" factor.
With Centro priced >$1000, Trevista may seem like a "steal" if priced likewise.

Yea, that will be main point used by agents to SELL units to people looking at them. Those buying will need to think through...

Will probably set a new trend too...

cndomay
22-08-09, 07:38
When the site was tendered, CB Richard Ellis estimated the breakeven cost for Choice Homes is around $800 psf.

And analysts reckon Choice Homes priced their bid on plan to sell at $950 - 1000 psf.

Folks...that was sometime back. The market is hotter now, so do expect a mark-up.

btw, anyone got news of actual prices.

isaaclim
23-08-09, 06:06
Happen to come across an advertisement by two joker.

"Luxurious Condominium in Toa Payoh ... A NEW VISION FOR LUXURY... A BRAND NEW LANDMARK"

Which part is luxurious?
A new vision? Luxurious base on pricing?

When did ever NTUC build luxurious condo? Really a joke!

azeoprop
23-08-09, 10:34
Just wondering is it true that getting out of Toa Payoh during the morning peak hours must pay ERP one? :beats-me-man:

xebay11
23-08-09, 11:25
Happen to come across an advertisement by two joker.

"Luxurious Condominium in Toa Payoh ... A NEW VISION FOR LUXURY... A BRAND NEW LANDMARK"

Which part is luxurious?
A new vision? Luxurious base on pricing?

When did ever NTUC build luxurious condo? Really a joke!

Please lah, anyone coming from HDB to private would call it luxurious, and 80% of Singaporeans are basically living in HDB slums/slum like conditions. Yourself? You come from GCBA background to make such comments?

xebay11
23-08-09, 11:27
Happen to come across an advertisement by two joker.

"Luxurious Condominium in Toa Payoh ... A NEW VISION FOR LUXURY... A BRAND NEW LANDMARK"

Which part is luxurious?
A new vision? Luxurious base on pricing?

When did ever NTUC build luxurious condo? Really a joke!

I find it strange people here so critical when coming to assesing condos, no West sun, too close facing, no privacy etc etc......what the heck then the millions of ppl living in HDB with common corridor die lah, everyday face four walls and cannot open main door or windows as people walking past can see inside......come on ppl still living happily, I see many don't even bother about privacy and open windows and doors even corridor units.

wqmai
23-08-09, 13:55
Logically since the market is recovering the prices will go up progreesively, but if every new project launch it go up by $100 or $200 psf then when it going to end?

If $1,200 psf for Toa Payoh area for 3 rms size of 1,100 sq ft, the quantum will be 1.3 million. How many can afford? Who would be the next one to buy the next high?

NO end to it...Poor thing...keep chasing...:scared-3: :scared-3: :scared-3:

Thats the good thing abt it. Whrn the next recession comes and these people cannot afford to pay the installment due to retrenchment, etc, then you can go in and buy at maybe $700psf compare to current $1200psf. I remember reading on the newspaper on this point. When the next recession comes and retrenchment comes, how are these people going to keep up with the installment???

xebay11
23-08-09, 21:23
Thats the good thing abt it. Whrn the next recession comes and these people cannot afford to pay the installment due to retrenchment, etc, then you can go in and buy at maybe $700psf compare to current $1200psf. I remember reading on the newspaper on this point. When the next recession comes and retrenchment comes, how are these people going to keep up with the installment???

Even if you pick it up at $700psf how do you know you would not get retrenched yourself, unless you are iron rice bowl civil servant, then that is just very evil for you to think such thoughts of others less fortunate than you.

isaaclim
23-08-09, 22:00
Please lah, anyone coming from HDB to private would call it luxurious, and 80% of Singaporeans are basically living in HDB slums/slum like conditions. Yourself? You come from GCBA background to make such comments?

It says "Luxurious Condominium", which is 100% not true.

If it said a Luxurious Home maybe you are correct and argue that it is a home for HDB upgrader.

cndomay
24-08-09, 19:01
It says "Luxurious Condominium", which is 100% not true.

If it said a Luxurious Home maybe you are correct and argue that it is a home for HDB upgrader.

I think not worth to get upset over the word ' luxurious '. They have to use such words.

Got some info from other sites to share:

A cheque need to be submiited first before allowed into VVIP preview on 28 Aug 09!

Adverts has appeared in Property Guru: a 2BR, 926 sqft, asking for $949K ( $1024 psf ). And $474K ($1019 psf ) for a 465 sqft studio.

mezo
26-08-09, 11:29
I find it strange people here so critical when coming to assesing condos, no West sun, too close facing, no privacy etc etc......what the heck then the millions of ppl living in HDB with common corridor die lah, everyday face four walls and cannot open main door or windows as people walking past can see inside......come on ppl still living happily, I see many don't even bother about privacy and open windows and doors even corridor units.

Its perspective from the buyer point of view. We take HDB as the baseline where one live with all the things that you have pointed out (west sun, corridors etc...) and we buy it at HDB price and live with it. Its not that we have no complaints but we pay what we get. When one decide to pay a premium over HDB price to upgrade and stay at a condo, its natural that one would ask for more. more facilities like swimming pool, better furnishings and throw in the other factors like no west sun, more privacy, etc...

You would probably ask for the same things when you are looking to buy a condo, or even your next HDB...its only natural...

azeoprop
27-08-09, 14:23
Tomorrow is the D-day, no latest news on pricing? Nobody q-ing overnight? :rolleyes:

Condorich
27-08-09, 14:42
Tomorrow is the D-day, no latest news on pricing? Nobody q-ing overnight? :rolleyes:

Price range about $1000 sqf, according to agent...

Seen the layout and I would say that it looks rather odd, especially the smaller units!

The que might form tonight.. bangala, prc plus agents.. You can also join in the fun (que) if you like.. But I heard that must show cheque before viewing so no que lor.

cl0ver
27-08-09, 14:55
Price range about $1000 sqf, according to agent...

Seen the layout and I would say that it looks rather odd, especially the smaller units!

The que might form tonight.. bangala, prc plus agents.. You can also join in the fun (que) if you like.. But I heard that must show cheque before viewing so no que lor.

it's illegal practice to collect blank cheques...

gohsoonk
27-08-09, 21:33
Price range about $1000 sqf, according to agent...

Seen the layout and I would say that it looks rather odd, especially the smaller units!

The que might form tonight.. bangala, prc plus agents.. You can also join in the fun (que) if you like.. But I heard that must show cheque before viewing so no que lor.

Not too sure about the queue. Heard that the price range is 900psf - 1200psf

flxcat
28-08-09, 01:31
Not too sure about the queue. Heard that the price range is 900psf - 1200psf

Pass by there is no queue. My guess is the developer is Choice Home, so priority viewing will be given to NTUC staffs, follow by respective union member groups, then maketing agent's client(from 3pm onwards). So should be very the systematic. no optima craze

Condorich
28-08-09, 06:24
Pass by there is no queue. My guess is the developer is Choice Home, so priority viewing will be given to NTUC staffs, follow by respective union member groups, then maketing agent's client(from 3pm onwards). So should be very the systematic. no optima craze

It is not a guess, it is correct. NTUC union member viewing 2-3 pm with invitation letter. The marketing agent's client from 3pm onwards.

KarenK
28-08-09, 09:38
It is not a guess, it is correct. NTUC union member viewing 2-3 pm with invitation letter. The marketing agent's client from 3pm onwards.

.......so can they use their NTUC Linkpoints to offset the purchase? :D

azeoprop
28-08-09, 09:46
.......so can they use their NTUC Linkpoints to offset the purchase? :D

Or can claim link points for the purchase? If $1 = 1 point, then will have a few years worth of free groceries... :D

KarenK
28-08-09, 09:49
Or can claim link points for the purchase? If $1 = 1 point, then will have a few years worth of free groceries... :D


wah seh.....then can claim until the cows come home liao.... :2cents:

DC33_2008
28-08-09, 10:00
I think it is entitled up to a max of 55,000 points. Not sure if there is any fine print next to this offer.

richardsng_era
28-08-09, 11:07
Preview launch Friday 28 August 2009. Closer to City yet only priced from S$708psf only. Hurry up & call me now for special price.

Property_Owner
28-08-09, 11:07
wah seh.....then can claim until the cows come home liao.... :2cents:

lots of aunty will be there lo

XB
28-08-09, 11:19
and collect one sticker for every $30 spent which can be used to exchange woks and kitchen cutleries? :scared-3: :scared-3: :scared-3:

azeoprop
28-08-09, 11:32
Are u sure so cheap? 708psf is for penthouse only is it? :doh:

bargain hunter
28-08-09, 11:49
according to business times, one of the bonus options is they can get 55000 link points.

Regulators
28-08-09, 11:50
dont bother wasting ur time calling these desperate agents...:doh:



Are u sure so cheap? 708psf is for penthouse only is it? :doh:

Condorich
28-08-09, 12:55
Why start a thread when there are existing ones...

http://www.trevistatoapayoh.com/

http://trevistacondo.com/ some goodies for NTUC members




Business Times - 28 Aug 2009

Initial phase of Trevista condo going at $898 psf on average
By KALPANA RASHIWALA
NTUC Choice Homes Co-operative is pricing the initial phase of its Trevista condo at Toa Payoh, which previews today, at an average price of $898 per square foot. This is about 20 per cent lower than Far East Organization's Centro Residences next to Ang Mo Kio Hub, priced at $1,150 psf on average and released last month.
However, as Trevista's units are generally larger than Centro's, the price differential in absolute terms may be less.
Far East has sold only about 100 units - an outcome some market watchers see as due to price resistance.

Both projects are on 99-year leasehold.
Trevista is near Braddell MRT Station and within walking distance of shopping and other amenities at HDB Hub and Toa Payoh Central. Centro, a 34-storey project with 329 units, is right next to Ang Mo Kio Hub and opposite Ang Mo Kio MRT Station.
The $898 psf and $1,150 psf average prices for the two projects are for normal progress payment schemes. Buyers who opt for the interest absorption scheme will pay 2 per cent more at Trevista and 4 per cent more at Centro. So far, none of Centro's buyers has opted for interest absorption.

NTUC Choice Homes said yesterday that the absolute price quantums at Trevista on average are about $830,000 for a two-bedroom unit, $1.065 million for a three-bedder, and $1.43 million for a four-bedroom apartment, on a normal progress payment scheme.
The developer is releasing 210 units this weekend, comprising mostly two, three and four-bedroom apartments. The project has a total of 590 units in three 39-storey towers.
Choice Homes has invited business associates, NTUC union members and members of the public who have registered interest in the project for today's preview. The co-op is extending special benefits to union members for a 'limited period during the preview'.
Each member who buys a Trevista unit will be given 55,000 LinkPoints as well as one of three other benefits, each worth up to $6,000 - a free NTUC Income Mortgage Protection Plan; an integrated fridge; or a family cash rebate for union members living near their parents or children residing in Toa Payoh or for multiple family-purchases of units.
Trevista is being marketed by CB Richard Ellis and ERA.
Over in the Mount Sinai area, Singapore Land is previewing its freehold Trizon condo this weekend at between $1,300 and $1,500 psf. However, prices are likely to be lower for ground-floor units with private enclosed space.


SingLand is offering only a normal progress payment scheme. It is developing the 24-storey condo, which will have 289 units, on the former Himiko Court site that it bought in May 2007 for $336 million. This works out to $821 psf of potential gross floor area, including an estimated $1.07 million development charge.

Copyright © 2007 Singapore Press Holdings Ltd. All rights reserved.

august
28-08-09, 13:34
2-bedder is $960psf ...

cl0ver
28-08-09, 14:34
maintenance fee quite high...

ulrich76
28-08-09, 14:39
maintenance fee quite high...

Think Phase 1 sold out already. Put in cheque also never tio. Hope those who got it are union members and real buyers. If any NTUC top brass got the units, an inquiry must be held..

amk
28-08-09, 15:34
maintenance fee quite high...

what's the fee ?


Think Phase 1 sold out already. Put in cheque also never tio. Hope those who got it are union members and real buyers

hey I vaguely remember last time for Bishan Loft it's the same thing...

azeoprop
28-08-09, 16:24
Here's 2 photos of the site taken from the Great Wall of Toa Payoh. :rolleyes:

azeoprop
28-08-09, 16:33
Think Phase 1 sold out already. Put in cheque also never tio. Hope those who got it are union members and real buyers. If any NTUC top brass got the units, an inquiry must be held..

Waaa...sounds like lucky draw like that haa haa.... are they giving free condos for the winners? :rolleyes:

Allthepies
28-08-09, 18:02
At 898psf(average), this seems like a much better deal than recently launched project Ascentia Sky, Centro.... will it bring about a turning point in new launch prices to more sustainable level? =)

Condorich
28-08-09, 18:17
Actually, those 898 psf prices are for 3 bedders and above.. expect around $1100 psf for smaller units.

Got someone excited all for nothing!

:doh:

alamak
28-08-09, 18:27
Waaa...sounds like lucky draw like that haa haa.... are they giving free condos for the winners? :rolleyes:
Wah ...Desperados buyers like no more pte property left to buy. Die Die must put a cheque .. preview for ntuc members , real mkting psychology for some kuku buyers

$898 psf for super-cramped 3 towers of 39 storey 590 units LH 99 years, all views essentially blocked on all sides by Great wall of Toa Payoh Central and the Peak@Toa Payoh. Wah ! , better buy Trellis Tower FreeHold and view of City and Novena . Somemore must wait for 3 more years !!!
:scared-1:

Condorich
28-08-09, 18:30
Actually 898 psf is for the 3 bedders and above...

around $1100 psf for the smaller units

Got someone excited over nothing

:doh:

matadorepy
28-08-09, 18:41
Actually 898 psf is for the 3 bedders and above...

around $1100 psf for the smaller units

Got someone excited over nothing

:doh:
If die die must pay above $850 psf, there are many choices even for FH property in city-fringe areas. :beats-me-man:

cndomay
28-08-09, 19:17
most often, one will not be able to view the complete list of selling prices before stepping into the showroom.

often, at the showroom, the agents are holding onto the pricelist.

a bit unfair to the buying community. having to make hasty decisions on price while at the same time have to evaluate the choice of unit.

does the buying public have a right to ask developers to release selling prices in ample time before its launch. doable?

isaaclim
28-08-09, 19:52
Just come back from the showflat. 210 units all GONE!

Agent queuing to wait for 2nd batch of release now.

august
28-08-09, 20:21
maintenance fee quite high...

how high? over $400/mth?

shld be low, since nearly 600 units sharing a relatively small plot ...

azeoprop
28-08-09, 20:27
Just come back from the showflat. 210 units all GONE!

Agent queuing to wait for 2nd batch of release now.

....and to think only 3 months ago, prices were relatively low and agents were begging u to buy. :beats-me-man:

yowetan
28-08-09, 21:01
How much is trellis tower going for? My budget is around 500+psf, and dun mind resales unit that is 10 years old and below.

I am crossing my fingers to get a good deal.:ashamed1:

noblebaby
28-08-09, 21:38
trellise tower 3 bedder already more than $1mil... the Arte is just opposite the Trellis tower, separated by PIE....


How much is trellis tower going for? My budget is around 500+psf, and dun mind resales unit that is 10 years old and below.

I am crossing my fingers to get a good deal.:ashamed1:

cl0ver
28-08-09, 22:57
how high? over $400/mth?

shld be low, since nearly 600 units sharing a relatively small plot ...

from the website

Estimated Maintenance Fee:

1 bedrm & 1+study – Below $200
2 bedrm & 2+study -$220 – $250
3 bedrm – $270 – $290
4 bedrm – $310 – $330

cl0ver
28-08-09, 23:04
showroom crowded like kok!
went there at 6, take number must wait min 1hr so gave it a miss...

all 1 bedder and 2 bedder released units sold out.
got some quote for the following:

#14-13 - 1,006,720 / 891psf
#20-13 - 1,030,480 / 912psf
#34-09 - 1,533,200 / 859psf
#21-15 - 1,444,080 / 833psf

disclaimer: cannot confirm but was what i got from the agent.

azeoprop
28-08-09, 23:06
All buyers there are millionaires....:scared-4:

proud owner
28-08-09, 23:08
showroom crowded like kok!
went there at 6, take number must wait min 1hr so gave it a miss...

all 1 bedder and 2 bedder released units sold out.
got some quote for the following:

#14-13 - 1,006,720 / 891psf
#20-13 - 1,030,480 / 912psf
#34-09 - 1,533,200 / 859psf
#21-15 - 1,444,080 / 833psf

disclaimer: cannot confirm but was what i got from the agent.

so crowded ??????

singaporean not kiasi meh ? no more swine flu meh ?

proud owner
28-08-09, 23:11
showroom crowded like kok!
went there at 6, take number must wait min 1hr so gave it a miss...

all 1 bedder and 2 bedder released units sold out.
got some quote for the following:

#14-13 - 1,006,720 / 891psf
#20-13 - 1,030,480 / 912psf
#34-09 - 1,533,200 / 859psf
#21-15 - 1,444,080 / 833psf

disclaimer: cannot confirm but was what i got from the agent.

you should have put on a mask ... and cough your way to to a queue number ... since you are already at back of queue no harm trying this trick ..

sure got kiasu kiasi sporean avoid and run .. then you move up the queue


and dont forget to keep scratching your arms and legs .. make others think you haave leprosy

cl0ver
28-08-09, 23:21
got security guard leh...
they call 10 numbers at a time.....
had to wait 190 numbers before my turn....

so u tell me worth waiting??

mr funny
28-08-09, 23:32
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/news/story/0,4574,347847,00.html?

Published August 28, 2009

Initial phase of Trevista condo going at $898 psf on average

By KALPANA RASHIWALA


NTUC Choice Homes Co-operative is pricing the initial phase of its Trevista condo at Toa Payoh, which previews today, at an average price of $898 per square foot. This is about 20 per cent lower than Far East Organization's Centro Residences next to Ang Mo Kio Hub, priced at $1,150 psf on average and released last month.

However, as Trevista's units are generally larger than Centro's, the price differential in absolute terms may be less.

Far East has sold only about 100 units - an outcome some market watchers see as due to price resistance.

Both projects are on 99-year leasehold.

Trevista is near Braddell MRT Station and within walking distance of shopping and other amenities at HDB Hub and Toa Payoh Central. Centro, a 34-storey project with 329 units, is right next to Ang Mo Kio Hub and opposite Ang Mo Kio MRT Station.

The $898 psf and $1,150 psf average prices for the two projects are for normal progress payment schemes. Buyers who opt for the interest absorption scheme will pay 2 per cent more at Trevista and 4 per cent more at Centro. So far, none of Centro's buyers has opted for interest absorption.

NTUC Choice Homes said yesterday that the absolute price quantums at Trevista on average are about $830,000 for a two-bedroom unit, $1.065 million for a three-bedder, and $1.43 million for a four-bedroom apartment, on a normal progress payment scheme.

The developer is releasing 210 units this weekend, comprising mostly two, three and four-bedroom apartments. The project has a total of 590 units in three 39-storey towers.

Choice Homes has invited business associates, NTUC union members and members of the public who have registered interest in the project for today's preview. The co-op is extending special benefits to union members for a 'limited period during the preview'.

Each member who buys a Trevista unit will be given 55,000 LinkPoints as well as one of three other benefits, each worth up to $6,000 - a free NTUC Income Mortgage Protection Plan; an integrated fridge; or a family cash rebate for union members living near their parents or children residing in Toa Payoh or for multiple family-purchases of units.

Trevista is being marketed by CB Richard Ellis and ERA.

Over in the Mount Sinai area, Singapore Land is previewing its freehold Trizon condo this weekend at between $1,300 and $1,500 psf. However, prices are likely to be lower for ground-floor units with private enclosed space.

SingLand is offering only a normal progress payment scheme. It is developing the 24-storey condo, which will have 289 units, on the former Himiko Court site that it bought in May 2007 for $336 million. This works out to $821 psf of potential gross floor area, including an estimated $1.07 million development charge.

jhokc0007
29-08-09, 01:10
We will be in trouble if everyone keep buying like there is no tomorrow:scared-4:

proud owner
29-08-09, 01:20
We will be in trouble if everyone keep buying like there is no tomorrow:scared-4:

indeed we will be in trouble the way it is going ..different kind of trouble swing flu victims will increase



whats the point of taking temperature everyday .. avoiding crowded places ... only to meet more people at show flat ??

health minister should do something ...

East Coast Boy
29-08-09, 07:44
Buyers ignore ghost month
Toa Payoh condo draws keen interest; developer releases extra units



Buyers were out in force on Friday at the preview of Trevista, a new 590-unit condominium in Toa Payoh, a traditional heartland area. -- ST PHOTO: MUGILAN RAJASEGERAN
WHAT ghost month? The traditional lull in home-buying activity during the Hungry Ghost month has been swept aside amid the current property market frenzy.

Buyers were out in force on Friday at the preview of Trevista, a new 590-unit condominium in Toa Payoh, a traditional heartland area. A queue had formed at least 20 minutes before the showflat doors opened at 2pm. By 5pm, all 210 units released for sale had been snapped up by buyers.

Developer NTUC Choice Homes had said it would release just those units for sale this weekend at an average price of $898 per sq ft (psf). However, the response was so strong that it released another 190 units at higher prices just after 8pm, said a spokesman. She could not say how much higher the prices were.

Of the 210 units, the two-bedders averaged $830,000 while the three- and four-bedroom units averaged $1.065 million and $1.43 million respectively under the normal payment scheme. Owner-occupiers were eyeing the bigger units while investors were mostly keen on the small units.

The 99-year leasehold Trevista, within walking distance of both Braddell and Toa Payoh MRT stations, has 44 one-bedroom units, from 463 sq ft to 721 sq ft. Other units are 861 sq ft to 2,002 sq ft.

The market was expecting big crowds at Trevista as it is the first condo to be launched in the mature Toa Payoh estate since 1996. ERA and CBRE are marketing agents. There was talk that plenty of blank cheques were collected prior to the preview. Some agents expect a sell-out.

It appears that the Hungry Ghost month from Aug 20 to Sept 18 is not an issue for these buyers even though many Taoist households in Toa Payoh burn incense during the month in the belief that this will appease the spirits. Many buyers would have been from the local area.

The property market traditionally goes into a lull during this period as some Chinese consider it inauspicious to buy a house at this time. But in recent years, practicality has often overridden superstition, agents say.

'Some developers may want to wait until the end of the ghost month to launch but those with launch-ready projects will want to capitalise on the buying momentum,' said Savills Residential director Phylicia Ang. 'There are a lot of young buyers who are not very superstitious.'

Also, when the market is slow, buyers may stick to their superstitious beliefs but when the market is hot and a good investment opportunity presents itself, they will not hesitate to jump in, lest they miss the boat, explained Ms Ang.

xebay11
29-08-09, 08:23
Smart people, ditch superstition, go for tangible profit.

cndomay
29-08-09, 08:37
Smart people, ditch superstition, go for tangible profit.

how much tangible profit are these buyers expecting. example, in TOP time can the value rise 8 - 10% ?

who are the main buyers? young ones ( below 35 years old ) or hdb upgraders ( 45 and above ).

BenziT
29-08-09, 09:04
Those who bought ARTE must be smiling all the way

cheerful
29-08-09, 09:11
yalor ... FH some more & a better located RCR nearer at the inner fringe ...

fairlady04
29-08-09, 10:21
Passed by an hour ago.. no queues.. though a lot of agents.. strange? last night's 190 units all gone too? how much did prices go up by? Straits Times didnt say. anyone know?

azeoprop
29-08-09, 11:12
I think most people aim for cheaper 1 and 2 bedroom units, or those low floor cannot make it kind of cheap 3 bedders. Those over million dollars units should be slower to sell. Thats why when those cheap ones gone, Q also disappear? :beats-me-man:

alamak
29-08-09, 11:45
yalor ... FH some more & a better located RCR nearer at the inner fringe ...

The Arte - not so cramped and squeezy, less than half no of unit ,more prestigious , More reputable CDL vs NTUC choice homes. NTUC Only suckers - own people review first , those who NTUC members who bgt must thinking gio tio. Silly Kuku can get 55,000 link points hore :beats-me-man:

Honesty
29-08-09, 11:48
I think most people aim for cheaper 1 and 2 bedroom units, or those low floor cannot make it kind of cheap 3 bedders. Those over million dollars units should be slower to sell. Thats why when those cheap ones gone, Q also disappear? :beats-me-man:

Right, usually the smaller and "cheaper" units were sold out during the launch.

Now then I know that why the report in the ST said so many so many units sold for the months. Infact most of them are those small units.

This nos of small units sold for the months give the wrong impression and wrong indication to the market have improved, and people are rushing to buy.

I can't imagine come 2012, so many units are bought at $900 to $1000 psf for the mass market condo. How many sold now, will be how many TOP then. THINK!!!!!!!!!

How and who they want to sell to.....:doh:

Confirm wrong investment ...:tsk-tsk:

Poor thing...:banghead:

Condorich
29-08-09, 12:44
Latent demand in Toa Payoh for the HDB upgraders... buy a small unit 1 or 2 bedders and rent out their HDB later on... However, the Arte is definitely a much better choice.

Next group are the new PR's.

Finally... the specuvestors.... all these 3 groups should make up at least 20% for any area.... Don't forget any special deals for NTUC affiliates.

Strong demand will be reflected in any project which is at least 75% sold... after 1 month.

cndomay
29-08-09, 17:52
Assuming about 8,000 pte prop at ave $800K per unit has been bought this year, that's 6.4 bn committed. How deep is sg's pockets....how many more billions before fatique set in...hahha

ulrich76
29-08-09, 17:56
If I had to choose between Arte and Trevista, I would not choose Arte. Too far from MRT and amenities, not to mention the noisy PIE. After Arte TOPs and give it 5 years, it will be just one of the many many Balestier Road condos selling at $750psf at most. Trevista is in Toa Payoh with not many condos. Look at Trellis Towers selling price. Selling at 1000spf after so many years. Given it is FH and commands a premium, this means that even after Trevista TOPs and ages, it should still fetch at least $800-$900psf comfortably.


Latent demand in Toa Payoh for the HDB upgraders... buy a small unit 1 or 2 bedders and rent out their HDB later on... However, the Arte is definitely a much better choice.

Next group are the new PR's.

Finally... the specuvestors.... all these 3 groups should make up at least 20% for any area.... Don't forget any special deals for NTUC affiliates.

Strong demand will be reflected in any project which is at least 75% sold... after 1 month.

xebay11
29-08-09, 18:17
If I had to choose between Arte and Trevista, I would not choose Arte. Too far from MRT and amenities, not to mention the noisy PIE. After Arte TOPs and give it 5 years, it will be just one of the many many Balestier Road condos selling at $750psf at most. Trevista is in Toa Payoh with not many condos. Look at Trellis Towers selling price. Selling at 1000spf after so many years. Given it is FH and commands a premium, this means that even after Trevista TOPs and ages, it should still fetch at least $800-$900psf comfortably.

Both Arte and Trevista are poor choices if you ask me. Arte is just like you said, become one of the many FH condos in Balestier. Trevista, once you get tired of the facilities in five years time the high maintenace costs becomes a burden, might as well just pack your bags and move down the street to 40 storey HDB, still have stunning views, breezy etc. Trellis because of FH nature in TP is a different beast altogether, so worth paying the premium for.

amk
29-08-09, 21:43
Both Arte and Trevista are poor choices if you ask me
even though I'm not keen in this area , if given Arte and Trevista, I will not choose Arte. Arte is really nothing more than a glossed up Balestier condo. Very inconvenient to everything. Trevista at least has a better location.



I can't imagine come 2012, so many units are bought at $900 to $1000 psf for the mass market condo. How many sold now, will be how many TOP then. THINK!!!!!!!!!

How and who they want to sell to.....:doh:

Your reasoning is too simplistic. 1st of all didn't you read most of these buyers are HDB addresses for self stay ? Most of them are riding on the high valuation price of their HDB to upgrade to condo. Come 2012 many of them will simply move in and stay. 2nd you have to start to accept 900 level kind of pricing for near town mature estates. Land price in TPY is already 460, plus construction cost 270, the cost of a project is 730. I know you keep on saying "that's developer's problem", but argument like this is just plain self denial. The recent Seletar land parcel sold for 280 psf. You want to guess what the final selling price of a project will be ? I give u a proxy. Optima's land cost was 280 too! You will say , what, 800 for this ulu area ? Look it's not up to you. The market dictates the price.

You can also have a read at the recent Citi/UBS report if you have access. I'm not agreeing to all they say. But what they listed about income level in Singapore, population growth, etc, are quite interesting. Worth an intelligent read.

Centro is a weird FEO project, should probably be removed from all statistics. (same for Silversea). The Trevista 900 pricing is a more representative of the current market.

dunatos
29-08-09, 22:19
even though I'm not keen in this area , if given Arte and Trevista, I will not choose Arte. Arte is really nothing more than a glossed up Balestier condo. Very inconvenient to everything. Trevista at least has a better location.


Your reasoning is too simplistic. 1st of all didn't you read most of these buyers are HDB addresses for self stay ? Most of them are riding on the high valuation price of their HDB to upgrade to condo. Come 2012 many of them will simply move in and stay. 2nd you have to start to accept 900 level kind of pricing for near town mature estates. Land price in TPY is already 460, plus construction cost 270, the cost of a project is 730. I know you keep on saying "that's developer's problem", but argument like this is just plain self denial. The recent Seletar land parcel sold for 280 psf. You want to guess what the final selling price of a project will be ? I give u a proxy. Optima's land cost was 280 too! You will say , what, 800 for this ulu area ? Look it's not up to you. The market dictates the price.

You can also have a read at the recent Citi/UBS report if you have access. I'm not agreeing to all they say. But what they listed about income level in Singapore, population growth, etc, are quite interesting. Worth an intelligent read.

Centro is a weird FEO project, should probably be removed from all statistics. (same for Silversea). The Trevista 900 pricing is a more representative of the current market.

I quite agree with what is said here.
The market has a lot of say.
Then analysts try to analyze and analyze. :)

Honesty
29-08-09, 23:41
even though I'm not keen in this area , if given Arte and Trevista, I will not choose Arte. Arte is really nothing more than a glossed up Balestier condo. Very inconvenient to everything. Trevista at least has a better location.


Your reasoning is too simplistic. 1st of all didn't you read most of these buyers are HDB addresses for self stay ? Most of them are riding on the high valuation price of their HDB to upgrade to condo. Come 2012 many of them will simply move in and stay. 2nd you have to start to accept 900 level kind of pricing for near town mature estates. Land price in TPY is already 460, plus construction cost 270, the cost of a project is 730. I know you keep on saying "that's developer's problem", but argument like this is just plain self denial. The recent Seletar land parcel sold for 280 psf. You want to guess what the final selling price of a project will be ? I give u a proxy. Optima's land cost was 280 too! You will say , what, 800 for this ulu area ? Look it's not up to you. The market dictates the price.

You can also have a read at the recent Citi/UBS report if you have access. I'm not agreeing to all they say. But what they listed about income level in Singapore, population growth, etc, are quite interesting. Worth an intelligent read.

Centro is a weird FEO project, should probably be removed from all statistics. (same for Silversea). The Trevista 900 pricing is a more representative of the current market.

Thank you for your reasoning, I always wonder where do these HDB upgraders got the money from?

If most of them buying for home stay, then they need at least 3 rms or bigger and I really think it is not affordable. as it may cost them something like 1.2 million. Take it that they sell their HDB at $500,000 for their 4 rms flat, they still need to pay the diff. of $700,000.

For $700,000 loan , they need to service about $3000 to $4000 per month. This is no joke.

Then by 2012, if it happen as what you predict, the HDB prices will drop, as there will many of these upgraders selling their HDB together at the same time and they may not get a good price for it.

Unless our wages increase accordingly to the level we can afford $900 psf for home stay, and is not that I am self denial, it is the fact that how many of us can afford to service the loan of $4000 every month.

Not every land the developer tender at the price they wanted and we have to pay them accordingly when the development is builded. If that is the case, we will be poorer by servicing the loan and the developer will get richer.

This sure win business, I think anyone got money would like to be a developer.

Where to find such business that have a big group of kiasu customers.

Not only the population growth and we need to pay so much $$$, is the wages that we earned make it affordable.

cl0ver
29-08-09, 23:52
i think a HDB upgrader would mostly come from 5rm or Exec.
4 roomers would normally upgrade to 5 room HDB!

also think there are a lot of dual income families in Singapore...
You can tell by the continued low birth rate.
most couples these days are smart savvy....
they will first buy a HDB when they are young and then sell it after 5 yrs for a profit and upgrade.
HDB prices appear to be holding the past few years...

The GenX couples nowadays probably take in 15k a month combined income.

ipoh72
29-08-09, 23:58
there will be abt 12000 hdb upgraders selling their flat then, it will be interesting if there isnt so many buyers, and the cycle starts again.
Thank you for your reasoning, I always wonder where do these HDB upgraders got the money from?

If most of them buying for home stay, then they need at least 3 rms or bigger and I really think it is not affordable. as it may cost them something like 1.2 million. Take it that they sell their HDB at $500,000 for their 4 rms flat, they still need to pay the diff. of $700,000.

For $700,000 loan , they need to service about $3000 to $4000 per month. This is no joke.

Then by 2012, if it happen as what you predict, the HDB prices will drop, as there will many of these upgraders selling their HDB together at the same time and they may not get a good price for it.

Unless our wages increase accordingly to the level we can afford $900 psf for home stay, and is not that I am self denial, it is the fact that how many of us can afford to service the loan of $4000 every month.

Not every land the developer tender at the price they wanted and we have to pay them accordingly when the development is builded. If that is the case, we will be poorer by servicing the loan and the developer will get richer.

This sure win business, I think anyone got money would like to be a developer.

Where to find such business that have a big group of kiasu customers.

Not only the population growth and we need to pay so much $$$, is the wages that we earned make it affordable.

xebay11
29-08-09, 23:59
The GenX couples nowadays probably take in 15k a month combined income.

This kind of information is not good for employers or foreign investors, they will think that our workforce is too expensive and not competitive.

cl0ver
30-08-09, 00:01
This kind of information is not good for employers or foreign investors, they will think that our workforce is too expensive and not competitive.

thats why they now prefer to hire mainlanders..

yowetan
30-08-09, 00:04
i think a HDB upgrader would mostly come from 5rm or Exec.
4 roomers would normally upgrade to 5 room HDB!

also think there are a lot of dual income families in Singapore...
You can tell by the continued low birth rate.
most couples these days are smart savvy....
they will first buy a HDB when they are young and then sell it after 5 yrs for a profit and upgrade.
HDB prices appear to be holding the past few years...

The GenX couples nowadays probably take in 15k a month combined income.

Are you sure the GenX are so affluent nowadays????:confused: :rolleyes:

Douk
30-08-09, 00:15
Ever wonder how the analysts know the HDB upgraders are buying for own stay or not?

I think they probably based on the kind of loan that these HDB upgrader take up, first property or 2nd property. and how many will declare the house as investment property (2nd property), which also charge a higher interest rate.

How many upgraders really want to squeeze into a 2 bedroom tiny apartment, if they are used to the 5rm or larger flat.

so it is likely that they are buying the property as investment, and this will eventually contribute to the oversupply 2 years down.

:2cents:

cl0ver
30-08-09, 00:17
are you shock?
GenX refers to mostly babies born in the 70s so they must be in their mid 30s to early 40s.
with 10yrs working experience, i think its average to quote that amount.
please note its a COMBINED amount

cl0ver
30-08-09, 00:19
Ever wonder how the analysts know the HDB upgraders are buying for own stay or not?

I think they probably based on the kind of loan that these HDB upgrader take up, first property or 2nd property. and how many will declare the house as investment property (2nd property), which also charge a higher interest rate.

How many upgraders really want to squeeze into a 2 bedroom tiny apartment, if they are used to the 5rm or larger flat.

so it is likely that they are buying the property as investment, and this will eventually contribute to the oversupply 2 years down.

:2cents:

they look at the address of your IC.

xebay11
30-08-09, 00:20
thats why they now prefer to hire mainlanders..

Then how the Genx couple going to service their huge loan?

teddybear
30-08-09, 00:22
1. Simple, not as complicated as you mentioned. They get it from URA (not available for free).
2. Nowsdays, many couples either have no kid or 1 or at most 2 kids. The savings from rising another extra kid is channeled to private property where the environment is much better, maintenance is better, and there are facilities to enjoy. I believe they are OK with smaller size as I know of many such families (couple+2 young kids) who are comfortable with staying in a <1000 sqft 2+S units (rather than living in a bigger 5 room HDB flats).


Ever wonder how the analysts know the HDB upgraders are buying for own stay or not?

I think they probably based on the kind of loan that these HDB upgrader take up, first property or 2nd property. and how many will declare the house as investment property (2nd property), which also charge a higher interest rate.

How many upgraders really want to squeeze into a 2 bedroom tiny apartment, if they are used to the 5rm or larger flat.

so it is likely that they are buying the property as investment, and this will eventually contribute to the oversupply 2 years down.

:2cents:

Douk
30-08-09, 00:28
ok, they got it from URA. But how does URA knows whether these group are buying for own stay or investment ?

It has to be based on the loan type right ?


1. Simple, not as complicated as you mentioned. They get it from URA (not available for free).
2. Nowsdays, many couples either have no kid or 1 or at most 2 kids. The savings from rising another extra kid is channeled to private property where the environment is much better, maintenance is better, and there are facilities to enjoy. I believe they are OK with smaller size as I know of many such families (couple+2 young kids) who are comfortable with staying in a <1000 sqft 2+S units (rather than living in a bigger 5 room HDB flats).

cl0ver
30-08-09, 00:31
why do you think it is huge?
lets say couple buys HDB for 300k and fully pay for it in 5-8yrs.
they manage to sell it at 500k in current market.
they "upgrade" to a 1mil condo and only have to take a 500k loan.

they are now in the same boat as those new younger couples aiming for those high end HDBs like City View, Natura, etc which goes for around 600-700k.

the difference is, GenX couple probably earns double the income ceiling of GenY which is capped by HDB to qualify for those units.

Honesty
30-08-09, 00:40
there will be abt 12000 hdb upgraders selling their flat then, it will be interesting if there isnt so many buyers, and the cycle starts again.


Ya, you are right.

If everyone got 2 or more houses, do we really have so many buyers to buy from you???

Or tenant to rent your house???

Buyers please THINK!!!!!

Don't get burn!!!!!!

When people rush to buy.....is time to get out....NOW!!!!!!!!!!

mezz72sg
30-08-09, 00:46
why do you think it is huge?
lets say couple buys HDB for 300k and fully pay for it in 5-8yrs.
they manage to sell it at 500k in current market.
they "upgrade" to a 1mil condo and only have to take a 500k loan.

they are now in the same boat as those new younger couples aiming for those high end HDBs like City View, Natura, etc which goes for around 600-700k.

the difference is, GenX couple probably earns double the income ceiling of GenY which is capped by HDB to qualify for those units.

300k payoff in 5 yrs means 5k/mth without counting interest.
Totally impossible for new couple since they buy new means combined income is below 8k. below 8k how to afford 5k instalment??

by the ways, to afford a 1m house, combined income should be at least 12k/mth with loan @80%.

mezz72sg
30-08-09, 00:51
Ya, you are right.

If everyone got 2 or more houses, do we really have so many buyers to buy from you???

Or tenant to rent your house???

Buyers please THINK!!!!!

Don't get burn!!!!!!

When people rush to buy.....is time to get out....NOW!!!!!!!!!!

Aa lot of buying are based on sentiments, kiasu mentality and hope, not logic.
Unwinding will slowly happen. But if a sudden turn of events takes place, like a lot of job losses, major recession, serious pandemic etc, then things will all start falling like a pack of cards as everyone rushes for the exits.

teddybear
30-08-09, 00:58
Don't worry. According to 2008 income statistics, now almost 35% of household has average household income of $8k and above! This is higher than 2007! As such who said that income didn't increase? (It seems this is only true for the lower income earners). Since >=$8k they can't buy new HDB flats, many are turning to buy private properties. $8k income should have no problem servicing a $800k loan (assuming a $1m property).


Then how the Genx couple going to service their huge loan?

teddybear
30-08-09, 00:59
When they take up the loan, the loan form will request them to state their intention for purchasing the property - own-stay or investment.


ok, they got it from URA. But how does URA knows whether these group are buying for own stay or investment ?

It has to be based on the loan type right ?

teddybear
30-08-09, 01:03
By the way, economic data coming out now has confirmed that the worse is over for US economy and also for Singapore economy. You still expecting the worse to come? After the huge shock almost 1 year ago, it seems nothing can be worse (not even H1N1). :cheers1:


Aa lot of buying are based on sentiments, kiasu mentality and hope, not logic.
Unwinding will slowly happen. But if a sudden turn of events takes place, like a lot of job losses, major recession, serious pandemic etc, then things will all start falling like a pack of cards as everyone rushes for the exits.

Douk
30-08-09, 01:04
When they take up the loan, the loan form will request them to state their intention for purchasing the property - own-stay or investment.

exactly, that is what i meant.

How many will take up a investment loan, most will take up the loan as first property, even though their intention is to invest. anyway, TOP is still years away as long as they get rid of the property near TOP or short period after TOP.

given the small apartment that this group purchased, it is more likely for short term investment rather than own stay. (of course there are also some that dont mind the smaller space, but this should be a smaller group).

DW
30-08-09, 01:07
I agree that HDB often provides a fairly good chance for young couples to make their first "investment" pile from the HDB flat they bought from govt (at a subsidy), if they qualify for it. MOst of the people I know, almost always make money from their first HDB ( assuming they bought direct from HDB), partly due to the first-timers' grant and concessionary interest rates.

For the people whom starts out with a fairly good job, and assuming your job demands the same from you as you are (well) paid, chances are, you will be working quite hard. Many marry slightly later (which is consistent with the trend of later marriages amongst singaporeans). By the time u want to get something together with your spouse (say after 2 years working experience), I am more than certain most would have busted the combined salary ceiling (8K?). I am quite certain I am not being overly generalised but the fact is that many couples easily make above 8K combined income after 2 years of working - that I can say without a shadow of a doubt.

Most people I know of this profile, cannot get HDB, cannot profit from the HDB "windfall" scenario. While you can argue people from this category do not need the HDB "windfall" as they probably can make the same from their income, but it is just the way the HDB scheme works which I feel is rather unfair to these sandwiched class people.




why do you think it is huge?
lets say couple buys HDB for 300k and fully pay for it in 5-8yrs.
they manage to sell it at 500k in current market.
they "upgrade" to a 1mil condo and only have to take a 500k loan.

they are now in the same boat as those new younger couples aiming for those high end HDBs like City View, Natura, etc which goes for around 600-700k.

the difference is, GenX couple probably earns double the income ceiling of GenY which is capped by HDB to qualify for those units.

teddybear
30-08-09, 01:10
Currently, as far as I know, many banks now charge the same interest rate regardless of whether own-stay or investment. So no reason for them to provide false information. In fact, I heard many people sold their HDB flats first and renting elsewhere while waiting to buy their dream property or waiting for their properties to be readily. Then next question is who buy their HDB flats then? Simple, PRs (especially those new PRs employed to work in the 2 new IRs etc). Just look at the 2008 population statistics will know.


exactly, that is what i meant.

How many will take up a investment loan, most will take up the loan as first property, even though their intention is to invest. anyway, TOP is still years away as long as they get rid of the property near TOP or short period after TOP.

given the small apartment that this group purchased, it is more likely for short term investment rather than own stay. (of course there are also some that dont mind the smaller space, but this should be a smaller group).

yowetan
30-08-09, 01:42
are you shock?
GenX refers to mostly babies born in the 70s so they must be in their mid 30s to early 40s.
with 10yrs working experience, i think its average to quote that amount.
please note its a COMBINED amount

Hi cl0ver,

I believe you are probably too optimistic over 15k magical combined income for a couple (Gen X). Perhaps you are one, and you probably have friends in this category. But I definitely not seeing it surrounding me. Instead, many of them are just simply struggling to maintain their lifestyle. Probably floating around at 8 to 10k would be a more realistic and reachable figure for most of the couples.

cndomay
30-08-09, 03:45
Paying 1 mil for a small 3 room condo is very severe, as SGs economy has matured and increase in wages are unlikely. The cost of living here has skyrocketed. A few factors has caused this:

1. land parcels has a reserve price: so, it determines what the market will have to pay.

2. HDB building rate is minimal, so the demand of pte condo rises.

3. Pte condo supply is limited: TPY has not seen a condo launch in 10 years!

4. Fancy HDB high end like Peak raises the bar for home prices. Now people compare condo prices to them and conclude condo is reasonable to pay.

5. People have the funds to service the loan, provided their job is not lost, but forgetting how much of their earnings are locked in their invested properties.

I feel the prices of ALL homes in SG are artificially high but it very hard to untangle it!

cl0ver
30-08-09, 08:56
Hi cl0ver,

I believe you are probably too optimistic over 15k magical combined income for a couple (Gen X). Perhaps you are one, and you probably have friends in this category. But I definitely not seeing it surrounding me. Instead, many of them are just simply struggling to maintain their lifestyle. Probably floating around at 8 to 10k would be a more realistic and reachable figure for most of the couples.
If you struggle, then dont overcommit to a 1mil condo.
The top 40 prefession in Singapore does pay above 7k on average.
This is just an average, with seniority, it gets higher.
Again, im stating the age group of people in their prime of their careers which is from mid 30s to 40s.

http://www.salary.sg/2008/best-paying-jobs-in-singapore-2008/

edit: it seems the numbers have gone up. NOw the top 50 profession are taking in 7k a month.
Please ask your boss for a raise. :)

http://www.salary.sg/2009/100-best-jobs-in-singapore-2009/

azeoprop
30-08-09, 09:17
Never kena retrenched already very good liaoz loh....just pay cut only. If ask for pay rise, confirm sacked immediately haa haa....:D

xebay11
30-08-09, 10:01
Never kena retrenched already very good liaoz loh....just pay cut only. If ask for pay rise, confirm sacked immediately haa haa....:D

True, I really wonder what kinds of skills people have that employers willing to pay $7k pm?

Honesty
30-08-09, 10:44
[quote=xebay11]True, I really wonder what kinds of skills people have that employers willing to pay $7k pm?[/quote

Other than sales job and those professional people not many earn this type of pay.

Even with this type of pay, is also hardly service the loan.

blackswan
30-08-09, 10:47
Its interesting to note that the buying sentiment is very much the same as US equity market nowadays. Over here, people go for studio, 1 bedder or max 2 bedder, in the US, the interest on NYSE Composite (Not S&P or DOW30, but everything that's trading is NYSE and which is 61% or public domain trading) is the 5 zombie counters (Citi, AIG, BAC, Fannie, Freddie) which is no diff from nationalization and price is cheap/penny. In fact recent month data show that these 5 counters alone make up of around 30-40% of daily volume!!! Signs of conviction? Hardly.

When people talk about better number like durable goods that went up 2.2%, they look at top line number but not the most important one that is Non Durables ex-defense, ex-transportation.

When they look at consumer spending/production, they did the same thing w/o considering the effect of cash for clunkers program.

Like one of the Bro said, can't wait for the time (2011,2012) when all the recently launch project is TOPed and released the huge flood of studio, 1 bedder and 2 bedder. (I can hear people saying by that time, economy will have recovered and that will be tons of FT coming to seek accommodation.)

Anyway, anyone full that construction nowadays is really fast, drove past Balastier and saw that the glass facade for Arte is up and to the higher floor liao!!! Launch way later than SKY 11 but believe its gonna to TOPed around the same time or even earlier.

The next one that's going to be very fast I believe is VIVA, have been pounding for the foundation for over 1 year liao. So the structure should be up pretty fast as the hard part is almost done.

sleek
30-08-09, 10:51
True, I really wonder what kinds of skills people have that employers willing to pay $7k pm?

Other than sales job and those professional people not many earn this type of pay.

Even with this type of pay, is also hardly service the loan.
Hmm.. maybe property agents? ;)

amk
30-08-09, 11:24
For $700,000 loan , they need to service about $3000 to $4000 per month. This is no joke.
Dun forget all these are new purchases. They have 3-4 yrs to build up the savings, also not forgetting some are computing based on future pay increments. For the 30-40 age group, after 10ys of working, a dual income is easily 10k and above (5k salary after 10ys of working is not very hard nowadays). For this group, CPF for each person is already 900 plus.

There is another group that have savings but missed the 2007 run as those pty at 2007 are mostly high end ones. Mass market has never had any peak after 1997.

You case is also the extreme case. I would use a 1250 sqft 3 bd, quantum of 1m as a base line. 1.2m coincidentally, is what the Citi reports says as "resistence level". For those doing 1.2m and above, they already have a large cash savings, and a well paying job.



Then by 2012, if it happen as what you predict, the HDB prices will drop
No I didn't predict that. HDB valuation is high now, but still not yet 1996 level (7/800k). Government has a decisive role in this. It would probably stay at this level, as the government wants to see Singaporeans feel good abt their "value" of home. It's politically correct too. Look around, who is complaining about high HDB valuations ? Most s'poreans are happy. Only the low end FTs who cannot afford condo are complaining. (and the sandwich classes. I feel sorry for them.)



Unless our wages increase accordingly to the level we can afford $900 psf This is generalizing. For me I see a resistance level of 9## for mass market at matured estates like TPY/Bishan/AMK/Bedok/Clementi/etc, 8## at further East/North MRT areas, but 6##/7## in other areas like Pasir Ris/CCK. This is what the market is showing.



Not every land the developer tender at the price they wanted and we have to pay them accordingly when the development is builded.
We dun have to pay, neither to they have to sell. A developer does his market research and thinks at this level I can sell, he will bid for the site. If afterwards the market collapes, he simply choose not to sell anything. He will just pay the financing cost and wait. Small developers do not have the financial strength and will probably get desperate (case in mind: Sim Lian's Clover project was once reduced price to 6##), bigger ones will just hold. This is the business. In Singapore so far there hasn't been a case where a major developer goes bust. The marketing department of a developer is as smart as you. They will not bid for a site when they see no demand. You can deny all you can "this is not worth xxx", the market shows other wise. Optima sold out at 810, Meadows sold 80% at 900, Trevista will be sold out at $900. The coming MCL Yishun site, at the other thread I said it will do $850, you say $580, you still want to bet with me ? :) Look these developers are not stupid ppl. You can say "no it's not worth" and dun bite. Ok it's your choice to wait for the next crash. 5ys ? 10ys ? 3ys ? people buying for home stay do not have this horizon to wait. Most of them are married/marrying and starting family. Look at the buyers of Clover/WFK/DBR/Quartz/etc. Most are well paid young couples getting their 1st home. They are worried they will be priced out of the market if they do not bite now. We are just recovering from a so-called "worst crisis" since 1930, how likely there is another crash ? The thought that "we may be priced out again" is not unfounded. Developers are capitalizing on this no doubt. But hey this is the business.

xebay11
30-08-09, 11:25
Hmm.. maybe property agents? ;)
I have seen many property agents borrowing money due to cash flow problems, take a $100K pa RE sales person, after deducting advertising costs fuel costs, putting aside CPF, own medical benefits, insurance etc, like real salaried person, they only make about about $5-6K pm nia and if they are sole bread winner, even worse, still very far from being rich to buy condos, only a very small minority make decent money.

xebay11
30-08-09, 11:36
If you struggle, then dont overcommit to a 1mil condo.
The top 40 prefession in Singapore does pay above 7k on average.
This is just an average, with seniority, it gets higher.
Again, im stating the age group of people in their prime of their careers which is from mid 30s to 40s.

http://www.salary.sg/2008/best-paying-jobs-in-singapore-2008/

edit: it seems the numbers have gone up. NOw the top 50 profession are taking in 7k a month.
Please ask your boss for a raise. :)

http://www.salary.sg/2009/100-best-jobs-in-singapore-2009/
Ha Ha this list is just an optimistic list, it is the top paying of each category and not the median. I know many employers paying far less for such professions, even if you feel you are really worth that much, employers these days would just get a foreigner to replace you.

A few years ago, I had a colleague who once boasted to me, "I can walk out of here any day and get double of what I am getting" I said "Go ahead, you would be most likely replaced with a foreigner who would accept half of what you are getting" today he is still working in the same company.

xebay11
30-08-09, 11:45
They are worried they will be priced out of the market if they do not bite now. We are just recovering from a so-called "worst crisis" since 1930, how likely there is another crash ? The thought that "we may be priced out again" is not unfounded. Developers are capitalizing on this no doubt. But hey this is the business.
Huh? You talk so much about market forces dictating the market in your long post, but your conclusion is that people are buying purely out of fear ie. when is the next crash? and fear of being priced out, somehow mitigates all you say about true market forces. I think nobody wants to bet with you on the next PSF level, if people don't buy it will collapse, why need stupid wager? You talk like PSF pricing is some magic number not subject to supply and demand. If developer really pay high and the market don't bite I bet prices will fall, want to take me on?

Wake up people this is wrong and dangerous, people should buy according to what they have now and what they can safely afford, should be factoring in short career lifespan these days and retrenchments due to companies relocating. Why go for tiny shoe box condos at such ridiculous prices? HDBs are just a comfortable these days and many are so much better spaced out and less cramped. Many condos you can even know when your neighbour just had durians.....geez.

cl0ver
30-08-09, 12:31
xebay, so are you saying that you are not in this category?
are you a single income earner?
you seemed to be able to afford The Medley which appears to be sold at an average of 900psft.

tell us how you worked out the sum? I hope its not inherritance money or tio toto? :scared-1:

blueb
30-08-09, 12:39
...
http://www.salary.sg/2008/best-paying-jobs-in-singapore-2008/

edit: it seems the numbers have gone up. NOw the top 50 profession are taking in 7k a month.
Please ask your boss for a raise. :)

http://www.salary.sg/2009/100-best-jobs-in-singapore-2009/

Thanks for posting this cl0ver, very informative. :)

xebay11
30-08-09, 12:47
xebay, so are you saying that you are not in this category?
are you a single income earner?
you seemed to be able to afford The Medley which appears to be sold at an average of 900psft.

tell us how you worked out the sum? I hope its not inherritance money or tio toto? :scared-1:
I am more established in career, started off with HDB in 1993, been through owning 99 y LH condo, so quite scared now, and yes also backed up by some old money, residential landed and industrial, all fully paid up. In spite of all this I too factor in chances of retrenchment or losing income.

yowetan
30-08-09, 12:56
Hi Cl0ver,

Thanks for the information. Usually such data are extracted from the iras authority. I take this information as a pinch of salt and I doubt there are many singapoeans earning that figure. All the people surrounding me, including me myself are earning much lesser than the proclaimed 7kSGD, though we are professionals armed with good university degrees.

amk
30-08-09, 13:08
Huh? You talk so much about market forces dictating the market in your long post, but your conclusion is that people are buying purely out of fear ie. when is the next crash? and fear of being priced out, somehow mitigates all you say about true market forces. I think nobody wants to bet with you on the next PSF level, if people don't buy it will collapse, why need stupid wager? You talk like PSF pricing is some magic number not subject to supply and demand. If developer really pay high and the market don't bite I bet prices will fall, want to take me on?

well I find it very hard to have a "peaceful" discussion in this place. Why so worked up ? I'm giving my opinion on the recent market run, and I think it's not without merit. You dun agree, it's ok. Present your thoughts. And let's talk about it.

Affordability is one key factor, complemented by the fear of price out, ( "miss the boat"), that is behind the recent mass market run. This is my thought.

You have the right to think all these people are stupid, and should not do it, and should wait for the market to correct 1st. You are entitled to this opinion.

There are plenty of reasons why people want to "squeeze" in a "tiny 1250sqft" condo rather than an 1500sqft HDB. "Value" of a space is not the same to every one.

"Stupid wager" ? My point was simply, at current market level, expecting a 580 below cost pricing is simply unrealistic. I guess without betting you yourself will have to agree that MCL project won't sell at $580.

Talk is easy. When you are a couple getting a home now, what would you do ? Say you have already waited out 2007, now you are 30 plus now. "Let's wait for the correction". Easier to say so. But your life will be very different in 3ys time. You need a good home for a family (or for a child to study peacefully). You have to make a decision. This is not coffee shop talkcock. This is for real for many people. You dun have the luxury to always time the market right, especially for home stay. How many 5ys do you have in your life ? This is the reason I dun simply dismiss all the buyers as being stupid.

For the business point of view, the entire supply/demand analysis is in the Citi/UBS reports, you can read and disagree. They indeed say the income level of Sporens are far better than 1997. And they predict a population growth (coming mostly from imports) that can maintain a demand for resale HDB and low end condos. In this forum I find it hard to present these figures as it seems members are more interested in opinions than these "market researches".

august
30-08-09, 13:13
Talk is easy. When you are a couple getting a home now, what would you do ? Say you have already waited out 2007, now you are 30 plus now. "Let's wait for the correction". Easier to say so. But your life will be very different in 3ys time. You need a good home for a family (or for a child to study peacefully). You have to make a decision. This is not coffee shop talkcock. This is for real for many people. You dun have the luxury to always time the market right, especially for home stay. How many 5ys do you have in your life ? This is the reason I dun simply dismiss all the buyers as being stupid.

For the business point of view, the entire supply/demand analysis is in the Citi/UBS reports, you can read and disagree. They indeed say the income level of Sporens are far better than 1997. And they predict a population growth (coming mostly from imports) that can maintain a demand for resale HDB and low end condos. In this forum I find it hard to present these figures as it seems members are more interested in opinions than these "market researches".

i think for first home own-stay safer to get HDB ... :o

xebay11
30-08-09, 13:14
Sorry if I sound heated but I worry for the new entrants, I think they really should go for alternatives such as HDB, prices are too high, those who are going in the market now better have their eyes wide open. :)

Acer
30-08-09, 13:15
When they take up the loan, the loan form will request them to state their intention for purchasing the property - own-stay or investment.

who will state for investment?

interest rate higher

yowetan
30-08-09, 13:18
Sorry if I sound heated but I worry for the new entrants, I think they really should go for alternatives such as HDB, prices are too high, those who are going in the market now better have their eyes wide open. :)

Hi xebay11,

Do you have any advices for new entrants like me? I am belonging to mid 30s and the "sandwich" class people. Do I need to pay an atrocious figure for a resales HDB?

august
30-08-09, 13:29
Hi xebay11,

Do you have any advices for new entrants like me? I am belonging to mid 30s and the "sandwich" class people. Do I need to pay an atrocious figure for a resales HDB?

how about THe Peak (HDB BTO) at Toa Payoh? Going at $500psf, that is nearly half of Trevista's avg psf. :o

just seems better value for $$ to me

xebay11
30-08-09, 13:34
Hi xebay11,

Do you have any advices for new entrants like me? I am belonging to mid 30s and the "sandwich" class people. Do I need to pay an atrocious figure for a resales HDB?

Resale prices are atrocious, so go for new and make your own pot of gold after 5 years. If not stay put, not everyone is lucky enough to go private property. If you buy a high resale value flat make sure it is 5 yo old type, at least you have chance of making some money too.

xebay11
30-08-09, 13:36
how about THe Peak (HDB BTO) at Toa Payoh? Going at $500psf, that is nearly half of Trevista's avg psf. :o

just seems better value for $$ to me
Yes, at least got chance to make money to springboard later.

yowetan
30-08-09, 13:44
Resale prices are atrocious, so go for new and make your own pot of gold after 5 years. If not stay put, not everyone is lucky enough to go private property. If you buy a high resale value flat make sure it is 5 yo old type, at least you have chance of making some money too.

The sad part is both my spouse and mine combined income exceeded the HDB 8k ceiling. This is so silly that I have no choice but to take a look @ the resales, and possibly the resales condo unit...

xebay11
30-08-09, 13:48
The sad part is both my spouse and mine combined income exceeded the HDB 8k ceiling. This is so silly that I have no choice but to take a look @ the resales, and possibly the resales condo unit...

Well guess have no choice but like I said, if buy good resale try and buy as new as possible, resale condo units also good value for money as prices not that high and bigger units, my BIL just bought a 3 bedroom FH condo at Hillview for $660k.

cheerful
30-08-09, 13:49
The sad part is both my spouse and mine combined income exceeded the HDB 8k ceiling. This is so silly that I have no choice but to take a look @ the resales, and possibly the resales condo unit...

Hmmm ... if mid 30s & sandwiched class & not belonging to those 7k mthly income tt someone mentioned can earn if u're in those top 50 professions .... maybe can consider resale HDB or resale EC? Could be still cheaper than resale condo?

This thread is getting more interesting hor .... so any latest on Trevista huh? :)

yowetan
30-08-09, 13:56
Well guess have no choice but like I said, if buy good resale try and buy as new as possible, resale condo units also good value for money as prices not that high and bigger units, my BIL just bought a 3 bedroom FH condo at Hillview for $660k.

Oh I am looking @ hillview area as well, particularly the project Merawoods, but all priced damn expensive. Btw, whats your BIL project? Any idea of its sqft/sqm size? 660k is a good buy.

yowetan
30-08-09, 13:58
Hmmm ... if mid 30s & sandwiched class & not belonging to those 7k mthly income tt someone mentioned can earn if u're in those top 50 professions .... maybe can consider resale HDB or resale EC? Could be still cheaper than resale condo?

This thread is getting more interesting hor .... so any latest on Trevista huh? :)

Seriously speaking, I cannot understand how the statistics comes about. Most of the peers I know, are definitely not earning that rosy figure. We are just merely surviving.

5577
30-08-09, 14:04
The sad part is both my spouse and mine combined income exceeded the HDB 8k ceiling. This is so silly that I have no choice but to take a look @ the resales, and possibly the resales condo unit...

Well, if your combine income is slightly above $8k only and you are a first timer who want a new apartment with no condo maintenance. Do what my friend did.

Buy a new DBSS due to TOP in 2 years in a matured estate with 10 min walk to MRT at $600K.
Write in to HDB to appeal for HDB loan instead of bank loan.
Get a 1st timer grant of $20K or $30k which reduce the price to $580k.

That way, you pay lesser for a flat with condo fittings and no maintenance to pay as there are no facilities. You get a new apartment with amenities near you and public transport is almost at your door step.

cheerful
30-08-09, 14:05
Seriously speaking, I cannot understand how the statistics comes about. Most of the peers I know, are definitely not earning that rosy figure. We are just merely surviving.

Hi yowetan, don't be discouraged by the current hype ... surely u'll find something tt u really like & can afford .. Hillview is not too bad apart from the congestion & peak hr traffic ... DTL be there in a few years time too.

Actually, I think the dept of stats or whichever body tt came up with those numbres should oso look at the fact that these days pp marry later ... while chasing the monies, shldn't the govt oso look at the quality of life as well? Anyway ... numbers shld not bluff but it's how they are being interpreted ... but some reported stories can (as in giving skewed pictures) ...

august
30-08-09, 14:07
The sad part is both my spouse and mine combined income exceeded the HDB 8k ceiling. This is so silly that I have no choice but to take a look @ the resales, and possibly the resales condo unit...

means all this while u and spouse staying at matrimonial home or wat? :confused:

cheerful
30-08-09, 14:09
means all this while u and spouse staying at matrimonial home or wat? :confused:

Err .. they cld be newly wed or getting to wed but already ROM liao mah ... didn't u read the discussion abt pp getting married later too? Hey, pp oso can stay with in-laws wat ... so many permutations ...

yowetan
30-08-09, 14:13
means all this while u and spouse staying at matrimonial home or wat? :confused:

Yah, we are staying in our parent's home nowadays. Shutter between mine and my spouse parent's houses.

I did consider DBSS, but the thought of almost 600k really puts me off. With that kind of atrocious sum, I may have a chance to get a hillview FH/999 leasehold units. In addition, I dun wish to ladden myself with debts financing my home; moreover our jobs nowadays arent stable anymore with the globalization running amok in our country.

It really set me thinking if I should just stay put in my parents home instead to save all these woes.

5577
30-08-09, 14:17
Alternatively, you can do what my other friend did.

If you really want a place of your own now and already own a car, can consider some of the resale HDB in Punggol.

Anyway, a train ride from Punggol to Dhoby Ghaut takes you 35min include LRT ride if you have no car.

On average, a 7 year old 5 room flat is selling at $400k (almost the same price as those that are released on BTO recently)

Take a bank loan and you'll find that the monthly instalment is still well within your affordability.

august
30-08-09, 14:21
Yah, we are staying in our parent's home nowadays. Shutter between mine and my spouse parent's houses.

I did consider DBSS, but the thought of almost 600k really puts me off. With that kind of atrocious sum, I may have a chance to get a hillview FH/999 leasehold units. In addition, I dun wish to ladden myself with debts financing my home; moreover our jobs nowadays arent stable anymore with the globalization running amok in our country.

It really set me thinking if I should just stay put in my parents home instead to save all these woes.

just make sure u get something that u can really well afford lor ... not maboky's definition of "affordability" thats for sure ~

yowetan
30-08-09, 14:22
Is it possible to get a freehold/999 leasehold condo at around 600k and below?:p :o

5577
30-08-09, 14:27
Yah, we are staying in our parent's home nowadays. Shutter between mine and my spouse parent's houses.

I did consider DBSS, but the thought of almost 600k really puts me off. With that kind of atrocious sum, I may have a chance to get a hillview FH/999 leasehold units. In addition, I dun wish to ladden myself with debts financing my home; moreover our jobs nowadays arent stable anymore with the globalization running amok in our country.

It really set me thinking if I should just stay put in my parents home instead to save all these woes.

True, but have u thought of the monthly maintenance, higher property tax, home mortgage insurance premium (?), and possibly adhoc sinking funds (if he FH property needs a facelift)?

If you want the least amount of commitment because of the insecurity in jobs or income, then, think afew time before buying private.

This is not to stop you from buying private. Just a friendly reminder on hw hard things may be for us - the sandwich class.:)

august
30-08-09, 14:28
Is it possible to get a freehold/999 leasehold condo at around 600k and below?:p :o

FH/999? a bit hard lah

but if u look hard enough u can get those older condo 99lh kind for $600-700k, over 1500sft too

alamak
30-08-09, 14:30
Is it possible to get a freehold/999 leasehold condo at around 600k and below?:p :o

RESALE Apartment status - maybe Yes ( more than 5 years) , not full condo STATUS. Also just under 1100 sqft. Look around, even city fringe have, near MRT too.

yowetan
30-08-09, 14:35
Hmm..thanks to all who responded to my queries. I am puzzled now - what is the status thingy all about? What is the impact if the status is an apartment instead full condo status?

Yah, I am really looking hard for FH/999 leasehold condo as I feel its more worthwhile since I am gona commit a considerable amount of money into this home. However, I do acknowledge that there are pitfalls owning a private home due to all hidden charges as mentioned by 5577. Sighz...recently been to other forums, it seems all couples are snapping up condo here n there, as well as HDBs!

I am not a happy sandwich class person. :(

5577
30-08-09, 14:42
Hmm..thanks to all who responded to my queries. I am puzzled now - what is the status thingy all about? What is the impact if the status is an apartment instead full condo status?

Yah, I am really looking hard for FH/999 leasehold condo as I feel its more worthwhile since I am gona commit a considerable amount of money into this home. However, I do acknowledge that there are pitfalls owning a private home due to all hidden charges as mentioned by 5577. Sighz...recently been to other forums, it seems all couples are snapping up condo here n there, as well as HDBs!

I am not a happy sandwich class person. :(

One thing to note - FH doesn't mean that u really get to keep it for generations... if government needs it back for economic reasons, they will still buy it back. Of course, the compensation rate is named by the government. :)

For a first home - look for something within your budget (purchase price), somewhere you are comfortable with, then consider the amount of $$ you are willing shell out for maintenance and overhead expense. That way, you won't go wrong.

august
30-08-09, 14:46
Hmm..thanks to all who responded to my queries. I am puzzled now - what is the status thingy all about? What is the impact if the status is an apartment instead full condo status?

Yah, I am really looking hard for FH/999 leasehold condo as I feel its more worthwhile since I am gona commit a considerable amount of money into this home. However, I do acknowledge that there are pitfalls owning a private home due to all hidden charges as mentioned by 5577. Sighz...recently been to other forums, it seems all couples are snapping up condo here n there, as well as HDBs!

I am not a happy sandwich class person. :(

well this is the thing isn't it? Be careful dont be sucked into this never ending spiraling chase with the jones ~


buy what u need and well within your means... u will be happier

Honesty
30-08-09, 15:14
well this is the thing isn't it? Be careful dont be sucked into this never ending spiraling chase with the jones ~


buy what u need and well within your means... u will be happier

This is exactly what I mean, don't worry you miss your "boat" or "ship",
If you are really out of job one day and can't find another so soon see what the bank will do to you and your house.

The interest now is so low and look attractive but what if the the bank increase the rate? I had experienced from 3% interest increased to 7% within a year. That cost me additional of about $1,000 per month for interest alone to service the loan.

Is ture....NO JOKE.....

I am not talking down the market, I am trying to caution the buyers to be careful...don't greed....don't get burn....plenty of "boat" coming in 2010...

Honesty
30-08-09, 15:43
[quote=xebay11]Well guess have no choice but like I said, if buy good resale try and buy as new as possible, resale condo units also good value for money as prices not that high and bigger units, my BIL just bought a 3 bedroom FH condo at Hillview for $660k.[/quote

That ture, there are plenty of good and chaep units for sales in the ST ads on Saturday.

Do your pick slowly, no need to rush for the expensive new launch.
Like what Xebay11 said, bigger and cheaper units...

Don't follow the crazy bull...go and..cheong...and....bang on the wall...:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

mr funny
30-08-09, 15:44
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/news/story/0,4574,348046,00.html?

Published August 29, 2009

Buyers snap up flats at Trevista condo in Toa Payoh

320 of 590-unit project taken up; co-op to release more at weekend

By KALPANA RASHIWALA


IF it's priced attractively, it still sells. Hungry home buyers yesterday bought around 320 units at the 590-unit Trevista condo in Toa Payoh.

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2009-08-29/BT_IMAGES_KRTREVISTA29-LQO.jpg
HOT PROPERTY
Some agents were seen armed with blank cheques from clients who had given them authorisation to book units

By around 3pm yesterday, buyers were said to have snapped up some 190 of the total 210 units released in the first phase of the preview, resulting in developer NTUC Choice Homes Co-operative releasing a further 190 units in the early evening to satisfy demand. BT understands that the price was raised by about 2-3 per cent for the second batch from the initial phase's average price of $898 per square foot (psf). However, some of the price gain also reflects the fact that units in the second batch are on higher floors and have better orientation.

While many people will baulk at this price for a 99-year leasehold project, what has been drawing buyers to Trevista is that the psf pricing is about 20 per cent lower than the closest competition from a comparable recently launched project - Far East Organization's Centro Residences next to Ang Mo Kio Hub, which was released last month at an average price of $1,150 psf. However, Trevista's units are generally bigger than Centro's so in absolute dollar quantum per unit, the price difference between the two projects may be less.

The smallest units at Trevista - studios and apartments with one bedroom plus study - were the first to sell out yesterday. Some agents were seen armed with blank cheques from clients keen to secure the better units and who had given them authorisation to book units on their behalf.

Choice Homes CEO Margaret Goh had noted on Thursday that Trevista is the first private condo to be launched in the mature Toa Payoh estate since 1996. That was when City Developments Ltd launched the freehold Trellis Towers at an initial average price of $900 psf, according to newspaper reports at the time.

With 400 units or two-thirds of the total units in Trevista released by yesterday evening, Choice Homes stopped issuing queue numbers after 9pm and told those streaming into the showflat site to return the next day.

The co-op is expected to make further units available over the weekend to cater to demand. Trevista comprises a total of 590 units in three 39-storey towers. It is being marketed by CB Richard Ellis and ERA.

Developers sold 10,017 private homes in the first seven months of this year - more than double the 4,264 units in the whole of 2008 when home buying dried up due to the global financial crisis. The unexpectedly strong sales pick-up since February this year came about after developers cut prices. However, they have since been raising prices for some projects - and that has resulted in generally slower take-up.

andy
30-08-09, 16:06
That ture, there are plenty of good and chaep units for sales in the ST ads on Saturday.

Do your pick slowly, no need to rush for the expensive new launch.
Like what Xebay11 said, bigger and cheaper units...


Not if you want a new condo in that area that you are familar with and especially near a MRT.

There are reasons why people are prepared to pay more $psf for new units. Older apartments always have some waterproofing issues, leakage, wall cracks, rusts etc. Also larger apartments 10 years ago have not good design in layout. Too many walls and not bright because of small windows. Now we have open lounge, open kitchen, dry kitchen, wet kitchen and balconies, proper aircon ledge with louvers. Even master bathrooms are see-thru. All these makes the project look better.

There are not too many 30 or 40 years old building apartments in S'pore. In fact not many buildings (apart from structure) are built to last that long because of our humid/hot weather. Check out PearlBank apartment oneof the earlier LH condos in S'pore. Now only $600psf

Singapore is a strange place. The prices for condo (space above land) depreciates with age while the land appreciates.:doh:

Honesty
30-08-09, 16:11
Not if you want a new condo in that area that you are familar with and especially near a MRT.

There are reasons why people are prepared to pay more $psf for new units. Older apartments always have some waterproofing issues, leakage, wall cracks, rusts etc. Also larger apartments 10 years ago have not good design in layout. Too many walls and not bright because of small windows. Now we have open lounge, open kitchen, dry kitchen, wet kitchen and balconies, proper aircon ledge with louvers. Even master bathrooms are see-thru. All these makes the project look better.

There are not too many 30 or 40 years old building apartments in S'pore. In fact not many buildings (apart from structure) are built to last that long because of our humid/hot weather. Check out PearlBank apartment oneof the earlier LH condos in S'pore. Now only $600psf

Singapore is a strange place. The prices for condo (space above land) depreciates with age while the land appreciates.:doh:

Yes, you got your point, think better look for freehold instead.

blueb
30-08-09, 17:12
Hi Cl0ver,

Thanks for the information. Usually such data are extracted from the iras authority. I take this information as a pinch of salt and I doubt there are many singapoeans earning that figure. All the people surrounding me, including me myself are earning much lesser than the proclaimed 7kSGD, though we are professionals armed with good university degrees.

Perhaps you are in the younger category yowetan...i know of many who are indeed earning > than the 7k pm, so seems like the data has some truth though not 100% accurate of course.

andy
30-08-09, 17:17
Yes, you got your point, think better look for freehold instead.
No actually it does not matter freehold or leasehold. 99 LH stills last longer than then building. FH is worth less if not near MRT or shops:)

azeoprop
30-08-09, 17:20
So the project sold out liaoz? :rolleyes:

sleek
30-08-09, 17:29
So the project sold out liaoz? :rolleyes:

Think so far its about 70% and got new units released over the weekend. You interested? ;)

xebay11
30-08-09, 18:48
No actually it does not matter freehold or leasehold.

Is this lip service? Or real? how come all the prospective buyers of my condo run far far the moment they found out LH.

xebay11
30-08-09, 18:55
Not if you want a new condo in that area that you are familar with and especially near a MRT.

There are reasons why people are prepared to pay more $psf for new units. Older apartments always have some waterproofing issues, leakage, wall cracks, rusts etc. Also larger apartments 10 years ago have not good design in layout. Too many walls and not bright because of small windows. Now we have open lounge, open kitchen, dry kitchen, wet kitchen and balconies, proper aircon ledge with louvers. Even master bathrooms are see-thru. All these makes the project look better.

There are not too many 30 or 40 years old building apartments in S'pore. In fact not many buildings (apart from structure) are built to last that long because of our humid/hot weather. Check out PearlBank apartment oneof the earlier LH condos in S'pore. Now only $600psf

Singapore is a strange place. The prices for condo (space above land) depreciates with age while the land appreciates.:doh:

Aiya older means 5-10 yrs ago lah. Designs still quite decent and comparable to new units.

andy
30-08-09, 19:32
Aiya older means 5-10 yrs ago lah. Designs still quite decent and comparable to new units.

You get what you pay for. There is no magic. Market gain 20% new units and older units gain also 20%. Market drops 20%, both new and old unit drop by same %. Boils down to risk profile of buyers.

Yet to see older units gain or and drop less.

teddybear
30-08-09, 19:35
I only know that those launched after 2003 got very poor design and layout - big big planter areas, big big bay windows etc. Never heard that those 10 years old have no good design (in fact those launched before 2003 are more space efficient!). As to leakage, wall cracks etc, it depends on the project. Some projects by big name also heard to have such problems, but so soon as to be 10 years old (usually after 15 years?).
"Even master bathrooms are see-thru" is better? Have dry kitchen is better? Sorry, may be I am more conservative as I found these to be NO-no for me. :o
Many of the newer condos have full ceiling to floor facade as wall. Not sure how long these can long before they start smashing? Scare scare if we consider the durability of glass. :scared-3:


Not if you want a new condo in that area that you are familar with and especially near a MRT.

There are reasons why people are prepared to pay more $psf for new units. Older apartments always have some waterproofing issues, leakage, wall cracks, rusts etc. Also larger apartments 10 years ago have not good design in layout. Too many walls and not bright because of small windows. Now we have open lounge, open kitchen, dry kitchen, wet kitchen and balconies, proper aircon ledge with louvers. Even master bathrooms are see-thru. All these makes the project look better.

There are not too many 30 or 40 years old building apartments in S'pore. In fact not many buildings (apart from structure) are built to last that long because of our humid/hot weather. Check out PearlBank apartment oneof the earlier LH condos in S'pore. Now only $600psf

Singapore is a strange place. The prices for condo (space above land) depreciates with age while the land appreciates.:doh:

andy
30-08-09, 20:09
I only know that those launched after 2003 got very poor design and layout - big big planter areas, big big bay windows etc.
Correct. But let's not confuse developer's desire to maximize selling area versus floorplan design for a given GFA. Older units are bigger cos many planter/windows/air con not counted. Units built before 2000 generally have about 20% more floor area. But so far never heard of tenants paying more for older units for a given floor area.

amk
30-08-09, 22:00
Correct. But let's not confuse developer's desire to maximize selling area versus floorplan design for a given GFA.

This is the objective discussion I'd like to see. :)

Btw I agree we should not dismiss 100% the design elements of balcony/etc. It brings out light and natural ventilation to the unit. It's not all bad. The fact that developers abuse it is a different matter.

Many 10y old condos are indeed very good in space and probably still structurally sound. These could be good value. However there is this huge stigma of "new vs used" in Singporean's mindset. There is always this premium for new.

xebay11
30-08-09, 22:20
I only know that those launched after 2003 got very poor design and layout - big big planter areas, big big bay windows etc. Never heard that those 10 years old have no good design (in fact those launched before 2003 are more space efficient!). As to leakage, wall cracks etc, it depends on the project. Some projects by big name also heard to have such problems, but so soon as to be 10 years old (usually after 15 years?).
"Even master bathrooms are see-thru" is better? Have dry kitchen is better? Sorry, may be I am more conservative as I found these to be NO-no for me. :o
Many of the newer condos have full ceiling to floor facade as wall. Not sure how long these can long before they start smashing? Scare scare if we consider the durability of glass. :scared-3:

Yeah all new condos so much glass, only good if you have zero noon sun facing or else, even a angled noon sun facing makes the house scorching hot, like sleeping in the open, very unliavble if you ask me.....this is where I think HDBs are much better.

cheerful
30-08-09, 22:24
If concrete wall kena sunlight lagi hotter!! It's more dependent on the direction .. if facing afternoon sun, new or old condos all the same but concrete walls retain heat betta bah ...


Yeah all new condos so much glass, only good if you have zero noon sun facing or else, even a angled noon sun facing makes the house scorching hot, like sleeping in the open, very unliavble if you ask me.....this is where I think HDBs are much better.

xebay11
30-08-09, 22:30
If concrete wall kena sunlight lagi hotter!! It's more dependent on the direction .. if facing afternoon sun, new or old condos all the same but concrete walls retain heat betta bah ...

Concrete walls retain the heat more, true, but glass lets in the heat at full blast and also warms up the concrete floor, so double whammy.

sleek
30-08-09, 22:34
Concrete walls retain the heat more, true, but glass lets in the heat at full blast and also warms up the concrete floor, so double whammy.

That's why a lot of new projects are N-S facing. If can't avoid E-W, facing E will be better as its the afternoon Sun that's heats up the home. :2cents:

xebay11
30-08-09, 22:40
That's why a lot of new projects are N-S facing. If can't avoid E-W, facing E will be better as its the afternoon Sun that's heats up the home. :2cents:

Many homes NS facing but the noon sun now comes from NW, still bloody hot if you live in glass house.

XB
30-08-09, 22:52
a question not related to property - why west sun hotter than morning sun? any physical/environmental reasoning?


That's why a lot of new projects are N-S facing. If can't avoid E-W, facing E will be better as its the afternoon Sun that's heats up the home. :2cents:

sleek
30-08-09, 22:55
a question not related to property - why west sun hotter than morning sun? any physical/environmental reasoning?

Simply because the home got time to cool down for the rest of the afternoon while the Sun travers to West. :cool:

Honesty
30-08-09, 23:06
Concrete walls retain the heat more, true, but glass lets in the heat at full blast and also warms up the concrete floor, so double whammy.

I always thought that glass is better than wall as wall retain heat untill you mention the concrete floor also.

ulrich76
30-08-09, 23:59
Dear Yowetan,

just some views which I hope will be useful:

1. Agree that it is a difficult decision for a first time home buyer. Buy now scared prices drop; dun buy scare prices shoot up. To mitigate the risk, maybe you can consider a smaller 2BR condo. Many of these in the suburbs - Jurong, CCK, Sengkang, Pasir Ris, Woodlands etc. $500k should be able to get you a decent unit. Also make sure the bank valuation matches, then you end up just paying 5% of the cost in cash ($25k), 15% in CPF and the rest bank loan.

If property mkt crash later, the condo may drop to about $400k, which is probably bearable, as compared to bigger loss for a bigger unit. 2BR is also enough for you and your spouse even if you have 2 kids.

Think HDB resale is not a good choice now. With average 20k COV, you can end up paying easily 45k and above in cash (incl agent comm). HDB prices have also moved up too fast and I think it has more risk of falling alot, as compared mass mkt resale condos.

2. Don't ever think FH/999yr condos are superior to leasehold, its the worst fallacy. For property, location is everything. And most FH are not near amenities/MRT. The simple reason is this. When all the hype and buzz is gone, a property's worth goes back to its rental value and rental yield. Taking Hillview as an example, if you are an mid level expat looking for a place to rent, for the same price, would you rent a Hillview FH condo that is near nothing or the Jade next to Bt Batok MRT/West Mall? Some people will argue FH has higher chance of enbloc which is totally nonsense. Look at the condos which were put up for enbloc - many of them are 99yr and the leases were simply topped up for the new development.

3. Lastly, buy a property which allows you to pay by CPF totally. Cash is king - try not to touch it for property. Cash will help if you are jobless or any emergency.

Sharing from experience, my wife and I earn more than $15k combined and we are early 30s with one kid. The place we bot costs $650k - resale condo in Sengkang. We paid $33k in cash and the rest in CPF. Monthly repayment (25yo loan) is $2.2k (all CPF). We have no illusions in buying a $1m condo "dream home" in the East which means a larger downpayment and monthly instalment in cash. We are contented with what we have and have no wish to risk it. Imagine the stress if prop mkt crashes and condo value drops $300k or if we lose our jobs...




Yah, we are staying in our parent's home nowadays. Shutter between mine and my spouse parent's houses.

I did consider DBSS, but the thought of almost 600k really puts me off. With that kind of atrocious sum, I may have a chance to get a hillview FH/999 leasehold units. In addition, I dun wish to ladden myself with debts financing my home; moreover our jobs nowadays arent stable anymore with the globalization running amok in our country.

It really set me thinking if I should just stay put in my parents home instead to save all these woes.

sleek
31-08-09, 00:21
Dear Yowetan,

We have no illusions in buying a $1m condo "dream home" in the East which means a larger downpayment and monthly instalment in cash. We are contented with what we have and have no wish to risk it. Imagine the stress if prop mkt crashes and condo value drops $300k or if we lose our jobs...

Same-same, would love to return to my roots in the East, but don't think I'll risk it. ;)

coburn
31-08-09, 00:38
Dear Yowetan,

We have no illusions in buying a $1m condo "dream home" in the East which means a larger downpayment and monthly instalment in cash. We are contented with what we have and have no wish to risk it. Imagine the stress if prop mkt crashes and condo value drops $300k or if we lose our jobs...

This i agree wholeheartedly... Contentment is key.
Me and my wife have annual household income of more than 300k but we stay in a 2 BR leasehold condo in sengkang and drive avante

of course we are tempted to buy a dream penthouse but current place suits us fine so there is no urge to change, esp in this inflated climate (my opinion)

more importantly, we can be debt-free and even if both of us lose our jobs at the same time, we have sufficient savings to last us a few years. This peace of mind is priceless.

thomastansb
31-08-09, 00:40
I beg to differ on point 3.

My GF and myself earn about 10k combined income. Bought a unit at the sail. Loan is 800k. You can imagine the installment. Now, the thing is not about dream home or what. To me, no risk no gain. It's the timing. If you buy at 600k, then drop to 400k, then how? Lose 200k. It is the timing. My housing loan is close to 60% paid up based on my paper gain. So it's the timing as well as risk appetite. Hopefully by end of this year, my loan is fully paid up and will sell it.




Dear Yowetan,

just some views which I hope will be useful:

1. Agree that it is a difficult decision for a first time home buyer. Buy now scared prices drop; dun buy scare prices shoot up. To mitigate the risk, maybe you can consider a smaller 2BR condo. Many of these in the suburbs - Jurong, CCK, Sengkang, Pasir Ris, Woodlands etc. $500k should be able to get you a decent unit. Also make sure the bank valuation matches, then you end up just paying 5% of the cost in cash ($25k), 15% in CPF and the rest bank loan.

If property mkt crash later, the condo may drop to about $400k, which is probably bearable, as compared to bigger loss for a bigger unit. 2BR is also enough for you and your spouse even if you have 2 kids.

Think HDB resale is not a good choice now. With average 20k COV, you can end up paying easily 45k and above in cash (incl agent comm). HDB prices have also moved up too fast and I think it has more risk of falling alot, as compared mass mkt resale condos.

2. Don't ever think FH/999yr condos are superior to leasehold, its the worst fallacy. For property, location is everything. And most FH are not near amenities/MRT. The simple reason is this. When all the hype and buzz is gone, a property's worth goes back to its rental value and rental yield. Taking Hillview as an example, if you are an mid level expat looking for a place to rent, for the same price, would you rent a Hillview FH condo that is near nothing or the Jade next to Bt Batok MRT/West Mall? Some people will argue FH has higher chance of enbloc which is totally nonsense. Look at the condos which were put up for enbloc - many of them are 99yr and the leases were simply topped up for the new development.

3. Lastly, buy a property which allows you to pay by CPF totally. Cash is king - try not to touch it for property. Cash will help if you are jobless or any emergency.

Sharing from experience, my wife and I earn more than $15k combined and we are early 30s with one kid. The place we bot costs $650k - resale condo in Sengkang. We paid $33k in cash and the rest in CPF. Monthly repayment (25yo loan) is $2.2k (all CPF). We have no illusions in buying a $1m condo "dream home" in the East which means a larger downpayment and monthly instalment in cash. We are contented with what we have and have no wish to risk it. Imagine the stress if prop mkt crashes and condo value drops $300k or if we lose our jobs...

cl0ver
31-08-09, 07:54
I beg to differ on point 3.

My GF and myself earn about 10k combined income. Bought a unit at the sail. Loan is 800k. You can imagine the installment. Now, the thing is not about dream home or what. To me, no risk no gain. It's the timing. If you buy at 600k, then drop to 400k, then how? Lose 200k. It is the timing. My housing loan is close to 60% paid up based on my paper gain. So it's the timing as well as risk appetite. Hopefully by end of this year, my loan is fully paid up and will sell it.

thomas, your risk profile may be different to others. you are not married and have no kids, hence the committment level is different from someone who has a family.
Timing is one thing, luck is also another thing.

xebay11
31-08-09, 08:06
This i agree wholeheartedly... Contentment is key.
Me and my wife have annual household income of more than 300k but we stay in a 2 BR leasehold condo in sengkang and drive avante

of course we are tempted to buy a dream penthouse but current place suits us fine so there is no urge to change, esp in this inflated climate (my opinion)

more importantly, we can be debt-free and even if both of us lose our jobs at the same time, we have sufficient savings to last us a few years. This peace of mind is priceless.

Sorry to hate to burst your bubble, but with more than $300k in combined income you could have easily mutliplied your money, I shan't teach you too much or else I may lose opps myself, but now I know why most ppl never look towards a certain segment of property market which can generate huge returns and only look at residential. Ha Ha.

Hint! This property sector can generate huge rental returns through rent and unlike residential property, the tenants actually enhance your property. I feel sad you have wasted opportunites. A few years ago you could have picked them up for a song, but these days sellers are getting smart and actually pricing in future returns.....the property market is all about first mover advantage and you are still stuck at GO in the Monopoly game of life. :banghead:

I have one maxim in life, it is a sin to sleep in a million dollar property as it could have been invested for better returns, but it is even a bigger sin to sleep on cash.

xebay11
31-08-09, 08:26
Dear Yowetan,

just some views which I hope will be useful:

2. Don't ever think FH/999yr condos are superior to leasehold, its the worst fallacy. For property, location is everything. And most FH are not near amenities/MRT. The simple reason is this. When all the hype and buzz is gone, a property's worth goes back to its rental value and rental yield. Taking Hillview as an example, if you are an mid level expat looking for a place to rent, for the same price, would you rent a Hillview FH condo that is near nothing or the Jade next to Bt Batok MRT/West Mall? Some people will argue FH has higher chance of enbloc which is totally nonsense. Look at the condos which were put up for enbloc - many of them are 99yr and the leases were simply topped up for the new development.



Your analysis on LH and FH is flawed,

1. Today's 99 LH condos being enbloced are sitting on HUGE pieces of land, they were built from 1960s up to 1980s ie huge open space parking land and communal facilties, like Neptune Court, can you imagine in 30 years time anybody wanting to enbloc a development like Trevista? Even if they do, once you divide the number of units over the land area how much land ownership does each owner get compensated as a strata title owner? Not sure if they can even recover their costs made in 2009. Land is bought at a psf basis not airspace, so the higher the development and the greater the number of units, the more airspace.

2. If population hits 6 million in 10 years, the market would grow up till then but after that, there is no real need anymore for new homes, so there would be no pressing need for enloc as there would be no more land shortage. This is unlike the past where population grew and grew, hence property owners made money.

3. How do you know if Govt will top up lease? you take it as a given, what if Trevista is not allowed to top up, as the land is too prime and the Govt may have other plans, so the value plunges right down after 10 years You want to risk your life savings to bet that Govt will approve top up?

4. Cash is not king, if you know where to look, many well located properties actually generate more than enough income to cover your installments.

xebay11
31-08-09, 08:32
thomas, your risk profile may be different to others. you are not married and have no kids, hence the committment level is different from someone who has a family.
Timing is one thing, luck is also another thing.

Astute is another, Thomas is astute.

gohsoonk
31-08-09, 09:37
Agree with most points. Ulrich76 is a prudent guy.

For point 3, while it is desirable to use CPF, it is difficult these days as the price is high.

Cash on hand is impt so that we can tide out the bottom for the repayments and sell it when it goes u higher.

For those with families, it is about marathon running and not a 100m sprint.


Dear Yowetan,

just some views which I hope will be useful:

1. Agree that it is a difficult decision for a first time home buyer. Buy now scared prices drop; dun buy scare prices shoot up. To mitigate the risk, maybe you can consider a smaller 2BR condo. Many of these in the suburbs - Jurong, CCK, Sengkang, Pasir Ris, Woodlands etc. $500k should be able to get you a decent unit. Also make sure the bank valuation matches, then you end up just paying 5% of the cost in cash ($25k), 15% in CPF and the rest bank loan.

If property mkt crash later, the condo may drop to about $400k, which is probably bearable, as compared to bigger loss for a bigger unit. 2BR is also enough for you and your spouse even if you have 2 kids.

Think HDB resale is not a good choice now. With average 20k COV, you can end up paying easily 45k and above in cash (incl agent comm). HDB prices have also moved up too fast and I think it has more risk of falling alot, as compared mass mkt resale condos.

2. Don't ever think FH/999yr condos are superior to leasehold, its the worst fallacy. For property, location is everything. And most FH are not near amenities/MRT. The simple reason is this. When all the hype and buzz is gone, a property's worth goes back to its rental value and rental yield. Taking Hillview as an example, if you are an mid level expat looking for a place to rent, for the same price, would you rent a Hillview FH condo that is near nothing or the Jade next to Bt Batok MRT/West Mall? Some people will argue FH has higher chance of enbloc which is totally nonsense. Look at the condos which were put up for enbloc - many of them are 99yr and the leases were simply topped up for the new development.

3. Lastly, buy a property which allows you to pay by CPF totally. Cash is king - try not to touch it for property. Cash will help if you are jobless or any emergency.

Sharing from experience, my wife and I earn more than $15k combined and we are early 30s with one kid. The place we bot costs $650k - resale condo in Sengkang. We paid $33k in cash and the rest in CPF. Monthly repayment (25yo loan) is $2.2k (all CPF). We have no illusions in buying a $1m condo "dream home" in the East which means a larger downpayment and monthly instalment in cash. We are contented with what we have and have no wish to risk it. Imagine the stress if prop mkt crashes and condo value drops $300k or if we lose our jobs...

DC33_2008
31-08-09, 09:53
Your analysis on LH and FH is flawed,

1. Today's 99 LH condos being enbloced are sitting on HUGE pieces of land, they were built from 1960s up to 1980s ie huge open space parking land and communal facilties, like Neptune Court, can you imagine in 30 years time anybody wanting to enbloc a development like Trevista? Even if they do, once you divide the number of units over the land area how much land ownership does each owner get compensated as a strata title owner? Not sure if they can even recover their costs made in 2009. Land is bought at a psf basis not airspace, so the higher the development and the greater the number of units, the more airspace.

2. If population hits 6 million in 10 years, the market would grow up till then but after that, there is no real need anymore for new homes, so there would be no pressing need for enloc as there would be no more land shortage. This is unlike the past where population grew and grew, hence property owners made money.

3. How do you know if Govt will top up lease? you take it as a given, what if Trevista is not allowed to top up, as the land is too prime and the Govt may have other plans, so the value plunges right down after 10 years You want to risk your life savings to bet that Govt will approve top up?

4. Cash is not king, if you know where to look, many well located properties actually generate more than enough income to cover your installments.

I beg to differ on your Point (1). There is a third dimesion, ie. plot ratio. Developer will be interested in any development which has a significant increase in the plot ratio.

xebay11
31-08-09, 09:59
I beg to differ on your Point (1). There is a third dimesion, ie. plot ratio. Developer will be interested in any development which has a significant increase in the plot ratio.

Newer condos have been built according to the adjusted increased plot ratio already, do you think today's ultra built up developments can benefit from any increased future plot ratio physically, or that they will be increased in future?

DC33_2008
31-08-09, 10:01
Sorry to hate to burst your bubble, but with more than $300k in combined income you could have easily mutliplied your money, I shan't teach you too much or else I may lose opps myself, but now I know why most ppl never look towards a certain segment of property market which can generate huge returns and only look at residential. Ha Ha.

Hint! This property sector can generate huge rental returns through rent and unlike residential property, the tenants actually enhance your property. I feel sad you have wasted opportunites. A few years ago you could have picked them up for a song, but these days sellers are getting smart and actually pricing in future returns.....the property market is all about first mover advantage and you are still stuck at GO in the Monopoly game of life. :banghead:

I have one maxim in life, it is a sin to sleep in a million dollar property as it could have been invested for better returns, but it is even a bigger sin to sleep on cash.

There is no right or wrong when it comes to contentment. They are just not Li Ka Shing type.

xebay11
31-08-09, 10:05
There is no right or wrong when it comes to contentment. They are just not Li Ka Shing type.

True, but I have seen common people like teachers make millions in property, being first movers.

ulrich76
31-08-09, 10:08
I have one maxim in life, it is a sin to sleep in a million dollar property as it could have been invested for better returns, but it is even a bigger sin to sleep on cash.

Ask yourself what will happen to you if you win that bet or if you lose it. If I bet on a $1m property and win, I simply have more money and my life will not change. If I lose, my quality of life will suffer.

Everyone has their own aspirations and there are no right answers. But also need to realise everyone is a property investment guru during a bull run like now :)

DC33_2008
31-08-09, 10:17
Newer condos have been built according to the adjusted increased plot ratio already, do you think today's ultra built up developments can benefit from any increased future plot ratio physically, or that they will be increased in future?

I am just saying $psf/pr is one of the many factors a developer would look for in a prospective enbloc site. MND will be able to answer your question on the future as they will be spelt out in the future concept plan and Development Guide Plan of each region. Given the limited land area in Singapore, we will have to go upward in some places in the near future. You can probably guess where are these places. Some places have height restriction like near the airports, airbase, etc.

xebay11
31-08-09, 10:27
Ask yourself what will happen to you if you win that bet or if you lose it. If I bet on a $1m property and win, I simply have more money and my life will not change. If I lose, my quality of life will suffer.

Everyone has their own aspirations and there are no right answers. But also need to realise everyone is a property investment guru during a bull run like now :)

There are ways to mitigate the risk.

1. Buy within your means

2. Buy FH where possible, if LH they must be very well located and if possible, flipped within 5 years.

3. Buy near MRT or city, so that rental income can protect you in case of failure, if husband and wife work, rental income is triple redundancy.

4. If you feel no appetite for risk, stay put, try not to make any compromises on the points I have outlined.

DC33_2008
31-08-09, 10:30
True, but I have seen common people like teachers make millions in property, being first movers.

It is not about the profession but the hunger and fire within the person. Li shouldered the responsibility of looking after the livelihood of the family after his Dad pass away. He was forced to leave school before the age of 15 and found a job in a plastics trading company where he labored 16 hours a day in his early days.

I believe it is about leveraging even for the rich. However, the poor has more to lose as compared to the millionaire or billionaire. Timing and domain knowledge of property is somewhat important. Do not follow the herd mentality.

new2mondrian
31-08-09, 10:30
Hi xebay11,

Do you have any advices for new entrants like me? I am belonging to mid 30s and the "sandwich" class people. Do I need to pay an atrocious figure for a resales HDB?

Actually HDB figures are not atrocious. Go for the real stats behind the lodged caveats. You can see that it is not impossible to get a 4room at $350k to $450k; a 5-room at $500k plus to $600k even in matured estates such as Holland/Clementi/Queenstown. HDB always gives the best value in terms of rental yield, and there is really limited downside risk and the town council takes care of virtually everything - from estate renewal to cracks and lift upgrading. If you belong to the sandwiched class, can always choose the affordable HDB option. Even if you don't belong to the so-called sandwich class (after all the term "sandwich" is a matter of perspective), HDB living also a good long term option for all families.

My two cents. :)

xebay11
31-08-09, 10:33
Do not follow the herd mentality.

I strongly agree, that is why I shaking head on $900 to 1200 psf LH purchases.

DC33_2008
31-08-09, 10:38
There are ways to mitigate the risk.

1. Buy within your means

2. Buy FH where possible, if LH they must be very well located and if possible, flipped within 5 years.

3. Buy near MRT or city, so that rental income can protect you in case of failure, if husband and wife work, rental income is triple redundancy.

4. If you feel no appetite for risk, stay put, try not to make any compromises on the points I have outlined.

It is unfortunate that property prices have gone up so much since 1990 but not the average household income of Singaporean. The next generation may want nice private properties but will be beyond their reach unless they work very hard for the bank. So! Maybe some of the investments may be for their children given the Asian Culture.

xebay11
31-08-09, 10:39
Actually HDB figures are not atrocious. Go for the real stats behind the lodged caveats. You can see that it is not impossible to get a 4room at $350k to $450k; a 5-room at $500k plus to $600k even in matured estates such as Holland/Clementi/Queenstown. HDB always gives the best value in terms of rental yield, and there is really limited downside risk and the town council takes care of virtually everything - from estate renewal to cracks and lift upgrading. If you belong to the sandwiched class, can always choose the affordable HDB option. Even if you don't belong to the so-called sandwich class (after all the term "sandwich" is a matter of perspective), HDB living also a good long term option for all families.

My two cents. :)

I agree most HDBs are better value in rental yield and all other things you mentioned, most people do not see that gap between HDB and Pte property was narrow even just a few months ago, which started the ball rolling in this frenzy, but now the gap has widened again, I guess they are in denial that they may have missed the boat and are now acting irrationally.

DC33_2008
31-08-09, 10:40
Actually HDB figures are not atrocious. Go for the real stats behind the lodged caveats. You can see that it is not impossible to get a 4room at $350k to $450k; a 5-room at $500k plus to $600k even in matured estates such as Holland/Clementi/Queenstown. HDB always gives the best value in terms of rental yield, and there is really limited downside risk and the town council takes care of virtually everything - from estate renewal to cracks and lift upgrading. If you belong to the sandwiched class, can always choose the affordable HDB option. Even if you don't belong to the so-called sandwich class (after all the term "sandwich" is a matter of perspective), HDB living also a good long term option for all families.

My two cents. :)

The problem is that younger people like to drink coffee in Starbuck and Coffee Bean and not corner coffee shop. Is this about progress of the nation?

xebay11
31-08-09, 10:44
The problem is that younger people like to drink coffee in Starbuck and Coffee Bean and not corner coffee shop. Is this about progress of the nation?

Can they earn enough to sustain this lifestyle? The workforce now has to compete with 3rd world foreigners who will depress salaries.

new2mondrian
31-08-09, 10:46
It is unfortunate that property prices have gone up so much since 1990 but not the average household income of Singaporean. The next generation may want nice private properties but will be beyond their reach unless they work very hard for the bank. So! Maybe some of the investments may be for their children given the Asian Culture.

actually i heard this many times, from the 80s to the 95-96 boom and all the way till todate, probably used to the maxed by rogue agents and developers trying to fuel the "miss the boat" and "buy for your children" mentality. Except for the landed category, Singapore still has tonnes of land available for housing. HDB for one is continually tearing down low density areas and building upwards and denser through its en-bloc process; private condos go through their natural demand-driven enbloc. Hence there is always sufficient land, UNLESS one is talking about real waterfront housing land (I am not talking about the longkangs and canals here which is overused again by the agents) or freehold large landed plots of 5000 sqft and above.

Hence to buy or not to buy is should be a balanced decision based on market fundamentals and personal wealth/income levels.

DC33_2008
31-08-09, 10:50
Can they earn enough to sustain this lifestyle? The workforce now has to compete with 3rd world foreigners who will depress salaries.

That is exactly what happen in the US. They are using future money based on their potential. Life is going to be more and more competitive. People are trying to breakthrough and therefore going for different types of investment. They hope if they can make a couple of millions and retire to drink coffee. Unfortunately, life is not so simple.

DC33_2008
31-08-09, 10:56
actually i heard this many times, from the 80s to the 95-96 boom and all the way till todate, probably used to the maxed by rogue agents and developers trying to fuel the "miss the boat" and "buy for your children" mentality. Except for the landed category, Singapore still has tonnes of land available for housing. HDB for one is continually tearing down low density areas and building upwards and denser through its en-bloc process; private condos go through their natural demand-driven enbloc. Hence there is always sufficient land, UNLESS one is talking about real waterfront housing land (I am not talking about the longkangs and canals here which is overused again by the agents) or freehold large landed plots of 5000 sqft and above.

Hence to buy or not to buy is should be a balanced decision based on market fundamentals and personal wealth/income levels.

Unfortunately, the prices of HDB flat are also pegged to open market prices with a discount. Look at Duxton Plain at Tanjong Pagar.

coburn
31-08-09, 11:27
Sorry to hate to burst your bubble, but with more than $300k in combined income you could have easily mutliplied your money, I shan't teach you too much or else I may lose opps myself, but now I know why most ppl never look towards a certain segment of property market which can generate huge returns and only look at residential. Ha Ha.

I have one maxim in life, it is a sin to sleep in a million dollar property as it could have been invested for better returns, but it is even a bigger sin to sleep on cash.

whatever, it is fine with us... :)
just different strokes for different folks
as long as at the end, we have sufficient money to retire comfortably, it does not matter if we retire at 40 or 60..

i stress, for us, what is important is the peace of mind and relatively less stressful pace that we are living now