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View Full Version : Kim Yam road - pros and cons



new2mondrian
16-11-09, 11:59
I am currently looking at a 3-bedder along Kim Yam road which is below $1M and approx $1k psf. I like it due to:

1) proximity to amenities (Robertson Quay is nearby)
2) no lack of tenants (esp the Japanese and the Caucasians)
3) the development is not 99-year leasehold

But there are other considerations, such as Buddhist Lodge and all the construction around the area.

Anyone has any ideas or experience with living in that area? Thanks!

76er
16-11-09, 13:47
If its going at that price, i think its a good deal.

EBD
16-11-09, 13:49
I am currently looking at a 3-bedder along Kim Yam road which is below $1M and approx $1k psf. I like it due to:

1) proximity to amenities (Robertson Quay is nearby)
2) no lack of tenants (esp the Japanese and the Caucasians)
3) the development is not 99-year leasehold

But there are other considerations, such as Buddhist Lodge and all the construction around the area.

Anyone has any ideas or experience with living in that area? Thanks!

Buddhist Lodge, not an issue to me. Hardly hell raising party animals.

3 bedroom in 1000 sq ft seems tight.... but I guess my standards are so old already. Now everything Mickey Mouse.

Construction..... find me a spot in Singapore where there is no construction.

If it is near Mohd Sultan end there is 7-11 which has lots of teenagers who cant get in to drink in double 0 puking up every Fri/Sat. Real nice.

triston
16-11-09, 14:35
i did take a look at the area some time back. was looking at a devt just beside the Buddhist Lodge..going at abt 900+ psf..FH. albeit a little old.

the problem i found was not with the noise from the Buddhist Lodge, but rather traffic.

try going there on special religious occasions and the parking is a headache. it's a 2 lane road ..so if 1 side is full of parking, i can imagine the hassle of getting out.

other than that, it's a nice place. and u can basically "stroll" to orchard.

as for the construction, just bear with it, and it'll be over in a few years. with so many new properties lately, every corner is a construction site.

pweesng
16-11-09, 15:10
i did take a look at the area some time back. was looking at a devt just beside the Buddhist Lodge..going at abt 900+ psf..FH. albeit a little old.

the problem i found was not with the noise from the Buddhist Lodge, but rather traffic.

try going there on special religious occasions and the parking is a headache. it's a 2 lane road ..so if 1 side is full of parking, i can imagine the hassle of getting out.

other than that, it's a nice place. and u can basically "stroll" to orchard.

as for the construction, just bear with it, and it'll be over in a few years. with so many new properties lately, every corner is a construction site.

First of all, i'm vested in that area.

Now my comments. The temple isn't bad at all. Even on days of religious occasion. It doesn't jam up the place. Also bear in mind, you can come out both ways from Kim Yam Road, or you can take Tong Watt Road. So traffic does move out pretty easily.

Now, that area, is pretty interesting. I find it rather undervalued as compared to martin road area, which strike me as a bit weird.

Currently you have the construction of several condos in that region, hence the construction noise and dust. But most of them will TOP within the next 3 years. I still believe the value of the development along that road will be upwards moving in time to come.

If the temples can move out, it would be even better.. but don't bet on it...

xebay11
16-11-09, 15:14
Yes it is undervalued because in the past it was famous as a mistress / chicken area but times have changed, so values would have good upside and potential.

pweesng
16-11-09, 15:18
Yes it is undervalued because in the past it was famous as a mistress / chicken area but times have changed, so values would have good upside and potential.


ha ha.. don't give away your age like that man... that was way back in the late 70s... where that place was not even developed... not even River Valley...

xebay11
16-11-09, 15:42
ha ha.. don't give away your age like that man... that was way back in the late 70s... where that place was not even developed... not even River Valley...

No lah, my auntie had a place there, she already 60+ YO, she used to rent out to those women of the night :D

ay123
16-11-09, 15:53
is there any other new project at kim yan road? I knew one directly opposite the temple, anyone know the project name?

Acer
16-11-09, 16:09
is there any other new project at kim yan road? I knew one directly opposite the temple, anyone know the project name?

are u referring to Martin Place?

xebay11
16-11-09, 16:11
Martin Place Residences, Martin Place, or Waterford Residence?

new2mondrian
17-11-09, 08:35
First of all, i'm vested in that area.

Now my comments. The temple isn't bad at all. Even on days of religious occasion. It doesn't jam up the place. Also bear in mind, you can come out both ways from Kim Yam Road, or you can take Tong Watt Road. So traffic does move out pretty easily.

Now, that area, is pretty interesting. I find it rather undervalued as compared to martin road area, which strike me as a bit weird.

Currently you have the construction of several condos in that region, hence the construction noise and dust. But most of them will TOP within the next 3 years. I still believe the value of the development along that road will be upwards moving in time to come.

If the temples can move out, it would be even better.. but don't bet on it...

Thanks for the inputs. I am also betting on the fact that with all the new devts (Martin Place Residences, Attitude@Kim Yam, Wharf Residences, Urbana) around the region, prices will go up in that area over time. And since the investment quantum is relatively small (as compared to other developments in that area), it will not be tough to obtain a 4-5% yield (rental of $3,300 and above) on a 3-bedder unit with unblocked views, since the asking rent for that area is high.

My key concern is the Buddhist Lodge, which will most probably be a permanent fixture in that area. Given the temple is not bad (in terms of noise and congestion), I think the price should be fine.

Thanks again. I should be making my small move soon....

pweesng
17-11-09, 08:50
Thanks for the inputs. I am also betting on the fact that with all the new devts (Martin Place Residences, Attitude@Kim Yam, Wharf Residences, Urbana) around the region, prices will go up in that area over time. And since the investment quantum is relatively small (as compared to other developments in that area), it will not be tough to obtain a 4-5% yield (rental of $3,300 and above) on a 3-bedder unit with unblocked views, since the asking rent for that area is high.

My key concern is the Buddhist Lodge, which will most probably be a permanent fixture in that area. Given the temple is not bad (in terms of noise and congestion), I think the price should be fine.

Thanks again. I should be making my small move soon....

I don't mean to pour cold water to your investment idea. Like i say, i'm vested in that area, so the more transaction in that area, the better for me.

I like that area, it is really not noisy, given that it is tuck nicely in a corner of Mohd Sultan and River Valley, near town, but not that near.

However, i have some views about the older apartments there...

1) seriously, most people who wants to stay there, are either yuppies who probably has done way better then me, when i was their age, or Ang Mohs.

2) these groups are either very rich, or company is paying for thier accomodation.

3) Given the conditions, they may not want to stay in the older apartments because they either has an image to keep, or they are burning money that don't belong to them anyway.

I would be wary about buying a seriously old apartment there for rental...

but if you want me to buy something to stay and wait for enbloc, got some potential... but as usual... my views are mostly wrong.

new2mondrian
17-11-09, 08:58
I don't mean to pour cold water to your investment idea. Like i say, i'm vested in that area, so the more transaction in that area, the better for me.

I like that area, it is really not noisy, given that it is tuck nicely in a corner of Mohd Sultan and River Valley, near town, but not that near.

However, i have some views about the older apartments there...

1) seriously, most people who wants to stay there, are either yuppies who probably has done way better then me, when i was their age, or Ang Mohs.

2) these groups are either very rich, or company is paying for thier accomodation.

3) Given the conditions, they may not want to stay in the older apartments because they either has an image to keep, or they are burning money that don't belong to them anyway.

I would be wary about buying a seriously old apartment there for rental...

but if you want me to buy something to stay and wait for enbloc, got some potential... but as usual... my views are mostly wrong.

actually the apartment is slightly over 10 yrs but less than 15 years old.... so it's old but not so old...

but i totally agree with you... seriously old apartments might have questionable tenants and dated facilities... very hard to find tenants....

the unit which i am looking at is currently tenanted to a US MNC till 2010, at a pretty depressed rental of approx 3% yield cos the rental was negotiated when Martin Place Residences and Urbana were doing their piling and building works. But after the place is all up, should be better.... hopefully...

do u know if the Buddhist Lodge allows the burning of joss paper in its premises???

mcmlxxvi
17-11-09, 13:32
What do you guys think of 1 Kim Yam Rd that conservation development? Views all blocked all around?

ay123
17-11-09, 14:04
actually the apartment is slightly over 10 yrs but less than 15 years old.... so it's old but not so old...

but i totally agree with you... seriously old apartments might have questionable tenants and dated facilities... very hard to find tenants....

the unit which i am looking at is currently tenanted to a US MNC till 2010, at a pretty depressed rental of approx 3% yield cos the rental was negotiated when Martin Place Residences and Urbana were doing their piling and building works. But after the place is all up, should be better.... hopefully...

do u know if the Buddhist Lodge allows the burning of joss paper in its premises???
i went to the temple quie often. they do allow minimum burning of joss paper. i do not remember seeing anyone burning joss paper so is not that smoky. but they do chanting quite frequently, don know how bad can the noise be......but this area is really a quite/peaceful place.

mcmlxxvi
17-11-09, 16:10
i went to the temple quie often. they do allow minimum burning of joss paper. i do not remember seeing anyone burning joss paper so is not that smoky. but they do chanting quite frequently, don know how bad can the noise be......but this area is really a quite/peaceful place.

Definitely safe from 'hauntings' and etc then I guess... or is it the other way round i.e. those 'things' are attracted to places of worship as it is there where they obtain redemption, feed on offerings etc etc etc. :doh: :scared-1:

teddybear
17-11-09, 21:25
Heard some condo estates there have termites problems. Better watch out for these first before buying.


Thanks for the inputs. I am also betting on the fact that with all the new devts (Martin Place Residences, Attitude@Kim Yam, Wharf Residences, Urbana) around the region, prices will go up in that area over time. And since the investment quantum is relatively small (as compared to other developments in that area), it will not be tough to obtain a 4-5% yield (rental of $3,300 and above) on a 3-bedder unit with unblocked views, since the asking rent for that area is high.

My key concern is the Buddhist Lodge, which will most probably be a permanent fixture in that area. Given the temple is not bad (in terms of noise and congestion), I think the price should be fine.

Thanks again. I should be making my small move soon....

proud owner
17-11-09, 22:28
i went to the temple quie often. they do allow minimum burning of joss paper. i do not remember seeing anyone burning joss paper so is not that smoky. but they do chanting quite frequently, don know how bad can the noise be......but this area is really a quite/peaceful place.


the chanting is in an aircon room ..so not noisy

only problem i see is during 1st and 15th of lunar mth ..alot of visitors ...and that small road jam up .. and alot of old folks ..walking very slowing both on pavement and on the road ..

so drivers tend to drive much slower ...

otherwise its quite peaceful

teddybear
17-11-09, 22:51
The burning of joss papers is not to my liking. It is like Indonesians burning down the forests. :scared-1:
Many cars/vehicles parking along the road is also a nuisance and this is an obstruction to traffic flow.


the chanting is in an aircon room ..so not noisy

only problem i see is during 1st and 15th of lunar mth ..alot of visitors ...and that small road jam up .. and alot of old folks ..walking very slowing both on pavement and on the road ..

so drivers tend to drive much slower ...

otherwise its quite peaceful

PlatiniumMondrianLangston
18-11-09, 07:10
Kim Yam Road has potential.

It is amazing that different projects along the same road has different pricing. The problem with these small older apartments is that they do not show much price appreciation compared with surrounding ones. Example : Aspen Heights (within sight of Kim Yam Rd also 10 years old) was $900-1000psf seven months ago. I guess this is a supply versus demand thing.

The outlook on rental is not very clear right now. The property cycle is quite short nowadays. Dun think u shld base your buy on rental but rather on capital appreciation. But if u intend to hold long term then that is another story.

G17
18-11-09, 17:39
I agree Kim Yam Rd has potential. Prices should take off once all the condos finished construction. Up to 3 years ago, it was a pretty rough area, and this hurt property prices there. Moreover, many buildings were in a dilapilated condition. For example, the Peranakan shophouses which form part of the Wharf Residence were in that condition for many years.

During the past 3 years, there has been too much construction affecting rents. Once the Wharf residence, Vivace and Martin Place are completed, the whole area will be very nice, and will complement the pretty conservation shophouses. In addition, I believe the old school (next to Oleanas) is earmarked for an international school.

proud owner
18-11-09, 22:01
I agree Kim Yam Rd has potential. Prices should take off once all the condos finished construction. Up to 3 years ago, it was a pretty rough area, and this hurt property prices there. Moreover, many buildings were in a dilapilated condition. For example, the Peranakan shophouses which form part of the Wharf Residence were in that condition for many years.

During the past 3 years, there has been too much construction affecting rents. Once the Wharf residence, Vivace and Martin Place are completed, the whole area will be very nice, and will complement the pretty conservation shophouses. In addition, I believe the old school (next to Oleanas) is earmarked for an international school.

u mean the old Nan Chiao School ? which opens up to the temple as parking space on festive days ?

G17
18-11-09, 22:11
u mean the old Nan Chiao School ? which opens up to the temple as parking space on festive days ?

that's right......

new2mondrian
19-11-09, 08:04
Kim Yam Road has potential.

It is amazing that different projects along the same road has different pricing. The problem with these small older apartments is that they do not show much price appreciation compared with surrounding ones. Example : Aspen Heights (within sight of Kim Yam Rd also 10 years old) was $900-1000psf seven months ago. I guess this is a supply versus demand thing.

The outlook on rental is not very clear right now. The property cycle is quite short nowadays. Dun think u shld base your buy on rental but rather on capital appreciation. But if u intend to hold long term then that is another story.

erm.... u went through ALL my postings over the last 1.5 years??? U are good, very good.... :)

Agree with u that rental will decline over the short to medium term. Actually every buy is entered into with a long term view, though it gets distracting every now and then (for eg. someone just offered my a cheque of close to $900psf for Parc Mondrian) when an offer comes by. That's with property. Every time something like this happens, we start wondering if we still want to hold for the long term, or to sell it. Well well... anyway we are still holding onto Mondrian. :)

Aspen Heights is nice... too bad the price appreciated so much that it is now far above the 900-1000psf range traded early this year.


What do you guys think of 1 Kim Yam Rd that conservation development? Views all blocked all around?

U are referring to Attitude at Kim Yam is it? That is a very very small devt of Mickey Mouse units. Really depends on how u feel abt MM units. I am not a believer of it. To me a minimum space of 700sqft is required for comfortable (individual) staying. But I might be wrong.

But the plot opposite Attitude at Kim Yam has been withheld by FEO for launch for the longest time. When FEO launches it, we can be sure that there will be more MM units across the road at incredible pricing... so there might be more upside??? Really no one knows.

To all who posted, especially about Buddhist Lodge, thanks very very much. For the past 2 weeks that we were considering the place, we drove by many times on weekends, as well as weekday evenings; it seems a nice and peaceful place. Hopefully the area becomes even better after all the development comes up. :)

xebay11
19-11-09, 08:29
Take the cheque for Mondrian and roll. I anticipate prices to go up further with the IRs developing.

kali-yuga
19-11-09, 10:47
Before The Singapore Flyer is operational, people have so much hope for it and expect so much from it............what happen???

Before F1 comes to town, we are all going gaga over it, look what happen to it in just the second year???

Now its the IR......hope its really the real thing this time round.

xebay11
19-11-09, 10:53
Before The Singapore Flyer is operational, people have so much hope for it and expect so much from it............what happen???

Before F1 comes to town, we are all going gaga over it, look what happen to it in just the second year???

Now its the IR......hope its really the real thing this time round.

This is more concrete, imagine if you are a wealthy high roller, you come to Singapore to visit the marina Bay and you fall in love with the place, you feel that it is safe and comfortable, what would you do? Look for a home or holiday home. The East Coast area would probably give the best holiday atmosphere and there are many new condos lining the ECP on the way to the airport.

I had the same sentiments whenever I went for holidays, I have bought a home in Perth and was eyeing Bali in my recent trip there.

proud owner
19-11-09, 10:57
This is more concrete, imagine if you are a wealthy high roller, you come to Singapore and fall in love with the place, you feel that it is safe and comfortable, what would you do? Look for a home or holiday home.

I had the same sentiments whenever I went for holidays, I have bought a home in Perth and was eyeing Bali in my recent trip there.

i know what you mean ...

perhaps we can start some kind of company ...which will take care of leasing out your holiday homes ?

if foreigners buy condos here to use only when they come .. i am sure there will be also foreign buyers who dont mind renting out their condos when they are not in town ..

so this company can help rent them out to other hoilday makers ??

i know there are such arrangement in Bali .. Phuket .. Australia .. even here in NY

EBD
19-11-09, 11:07
i know what you mean ...

perhaps we can start some kind of company ...which will take care of leasing out your holiday homes ?

if foreigners buy condos here to use only when they come .. i am sure there will be also foreign buyers who dont mind renting out their condos when they are not in town ..

so this company can help rent them out to other hoilday makers ??

i know there are such arrangement in Bali .. Phuket .. Australia .. even here in NY


I have a friend who has done just that in Bali.
But then Bali is Bali, east coast is hardly a match from holiday persepective.

kali-yuga
19-11-09, 12:11
This is more concrete, imagine if you are a wealthy high roller, you come to Singapore to visit the marina Bay and you fall in love with the place, you feel that it is safe and comfortable, what would you do? Look for a home or holiday home. The East Coast area would probably give the best holiday atmosphere and there are many new condos lining the ECP on the way to the airport.

I had the same sentiments whenever I went for holidays, I have bought a home in Perth and was eyeing Bali in my recent trip there.

If you are a wealthy HIGH ROLLER, you will not come to Singapore Casino with all its rules, restrictions nad such. You will stay in Macau.

Attached is an article from BB comparing Sands and SJM.
We are like Sands, nice hotels, facility, conference blah blah blah.
But for those high roller, they might just be looking for plainly SJM.

Stanley Ho Shows He Makes Macau Money Vegas Men Can’t Replicate
2009-08-19 21:00:01.0 GMT

By William Mellor and Chia-Peck Wong
Aug. 20 (Bloomberg) -- On a sultry June morning in Macau, casino billionaire Stanley Ho strode into the Venetian, the gambling palace of American archrival Sheldon Adelson, and reflected on life, death and how not to succeed in the world’s biggest gaming market.
For almost half a century, Ho, 87, had reigned as King of Gambling in the 10-square-mile dot on the steamy South China coast. Even when he lost his government-bestowed monopoly in 2004, Ho resisted the glitzy casino resorts of Australian billionaire James Packer and U.S. moguls Kirk Kerkorian, Steve Wynn and Adelson.

Adelson’s vision proved particularly grandiose: He’s spending $12 billion to create a Vegas-style strip in Macau complete with a replica of his Nevada Venetian and its canals and singing gondoliers. Ho wasn’t impressed. "The success of one market model cannot be migrated to another," he told an audience at an international gaming expo in Adelson’s 3,000-room Venetian that June day, switching between perfect English and his mother tongue, Cantonese. "Ignoring Macau’s special characteristics and duplicating a Las Vegas or an Atlantic City would not be a successful strategy."

Ho’s Health

Unnoticed by most Westerners in the audience, Ho, who’d defied advancing age with daily swims and spins on the ballroom dance floor, uttered an aside in Cantonese that would prove
prescient: "How many decades can a man live?" he asked rhetorically.
Two months later, Ho’s role atop the Asian gambling haven that generated $13.8 billion in revenue last year -- more than Las Vegas and Atlantic City combined -- took a precarious turn.

On Aug. 4, Hong Kong’s Adventist Hospital confirmed newspaper items that reported Ho had been admitted for treatment. On Aug. 13, Ho’s spokeswoman, Janet Wong, said reports in Chinese papers that he had suffered a stroke were unfounded and he was progressing well. Neither of Ho’s publicly traded companies made a statement to the stock exchange.
In the absence of further details, investors scurried to study the sprawling Ho family tree -- including Ho’s 17 children by four different mothers -- to determine who might take over.

Olympic Torch

An octogenarian who’d carried the Olympic torch in Macau last year, Ho had never announced a successor. "Fit and healthy as I am, I have no plans to retire," he wrote in a June e-mail to Bloomberg News. Investors who have bet on Ho and his no-frills gambling halls have had reason to cheer. SJM Holdings Ltd., Macau’s largest casino operator by revenue, enjoyed 23 percent to 31 percent of the market this year through July, according to Portuguese news agency Lusa, which publishes monthly figures.

SJM shares gained 65 percent this year through Aug. 19, compared with a 30 percent rise for Wynn Resorts Ltd. and a 39 percent plunge for MGM Mirage. Las Vegas Sands more than doubled in the same period, after plummeting 99 percent to a low of $1.42 in March from its October 2007 high. Las Vegas Sands and Wynn got more than 60 percent of their revenue from Macau last year.

Ho’s Shun Tak Holdings Ltd., which runs most of the high- speed ferries and all of the helicopters that deliver gamblers to Macau from Hong Kong, soared 141 percent this year through Aug. 19. Son Lawrence Ho’s Nasdaq-listed Melco Crown Entertainment Ltd., which is 34 percent owned by his Melco International Development Ltd. and 34 percent by Packer’s Crown Ltd., owns two Macau casinos, including the $2.1 billion City of Dreams. Melco Crown shares rose 60 percent.

Winning Hand

So far, Ho’s strategy -- along with SJM’s lack of debt and booming stock price -- has dealt him a winning hand in Macau. Adelson, 76, who arrived in the former Portuguese colony in 2004, piloted Las Vegas Sands through a potential brush with bankruptcy in November by raising equity. His plan to re-create the Vegas experience in the Chinese territory hasn’t fared as well. Adelson has delayed construction on nine hotels and casinos with 21,000 rooms, leaving swaths of the nascent Cotai Strip covered by steel and concrete skeletons.

Kerkorian, 92, with his MGM Mirage, has amassed $12.4 billion of debt worldwide, and his company reported a $212.6 million net loss for the second quarter. Adelson and Wynn, 67, have announced plans that will enable them to boost capital by selling shares in their Macau businesses on the Hong Kong stock exchange.

Not a Gambler

Ho, who says his nickname is a misnomer because he doesn’t bet, has managed to outfox the newcomers by offering unadulterated gambling to Chinese content to live on noodles and cigarettes as they head for halls like his $1 billion Grand Lisboa. In Macau, which is about one-sixth the size of the city of Washington, the 23.5 million visitors who came last year stayed an average of 1.3 nights compared with 3 nights in Las Vegas, which augments dice rolls with Broadway-style shows and restaurants. Macau’s gamblers have been known to catch some sleep in massage parlors rather than pay for a hotel. "When the Americans showed up, they thought they would literally reshape Macau like Las Vegas," says Alex Motola, who helps manage $40 billion, including Las Vegas Sands shares, at Santa Fe, New Mexico-based Thornburg Investment Management Inc.
"The Macau audience is less focused on the ancillary things around gambling. Stanley, with his wealth of experience, understood that better."

Succession Concern

Now, the Hos are struggling with a concern that vexes all family-run businesses, especially those in Asia, says shareholder activist David Webb, a former independent director of the Hong Kong exchange and publisher of Webb-Site.com. "In Europe, many family companies have been around much longer," he says. "There’s an internal meritocracy that enables them to choose whichever is the best qualified cousin to be chief executive."
Ho’s current companion, Angela Leong, 48, mother of his five youngest children, is one likely candidate to head SJM, says John Koh, who helps manage $1.1 billion at MEAG Hong Kong Ltd. Leong is already an executive director at SJM.

Three of Ho’s daughters by his second wife hold top positions at Shun Tak and may continue running that company, Koh says. Pansy Ho, 46, an art lover who sits on the international advisory board of Sotheby’s, has been Shun Tak’s managing director for 10 years. Daisy, 44, is deputy managing director and chief financial officer; Maisy, 41, is an executive director.

‘Bright Children’

"He’s obviously got very bright children," says Sean Monaghan, a Singapore-based investment consultant. "Angela Leong is also very well respected. He’s been a force for so long that his children have become a force as well."

Ho also has built a long-serving non-family management team headed by SJM Chief Executive Officer Ambrose So. "He has got some very capable people," says Allan Zeman, a Hong Kong-based director of Wynn Resorts. "My take is it will be business as usual." First, Ho’s women, children and siblings will have to get along. In 2006, Winnie Ho, one of Stanley’s 13 brothers and sisters, filed more than 30 lawsuits against him.

The dispute over who owned the company’s family-held shares delayed SJM’s initial public offering, after Winnie, 86, claimed she was owed $386 million in dividends. Stanley Ho denied the allegations through his lawyers; the $494 million share sale went ahead in July 2008. In another squabble in 2001, Stanley Ho threatened to disinherit daughter Pansy when she briefly dated the son of a business rival.

‘Tectonic Plates’

Pansy and her stepmother Angela, who are virtually the same age, have had their differences. Both are on the board of Sociedade de Turismo e Diversoes de Macao, Ho’s private company that owns 61 percent of SJM. Ho’s third wife, Chan Un Chan, is an STDM shareholder, as are Winnie Ho and another sister, Louise Mok. "There has been serious family feuding," says Steve Vickers, Hong Kong-based CEO of FTI International Risk Ltd., who has performed investigations for potential Macau investors. "Stanley Ho was the magma that held the tectonic plates together," he says. "I don’t think any one of his wives or children will be strong enough to operate in the way he did."

Ho’s family also has to navigate the challenges confronting all of Macau’s gambling tycoons. Next year, two casinos will open in Singapore -- one of them Adelson’s $5.25 billion-plus Marina Bay Sands -- to attract high rollers that account for two-thirds of Macau’s annual casino revenue.

‘Up the Ante’

To continue to compete successfully beyond China, Macau needs to improve its air links, says Jonathan Galaviz, a partner at Las Vegas-based consulting firm Globalysis Ltd. "Airline service from strong, reputable carriers from the rest of Asia is critical for Macau to up the ante," he says.
Closer to home, the Chinese government is restricting entry visas to Macau for mainland Chinese. With a population of 544,000, Macau depends on nonlocal gamblers.After the Portuguese handed the territory back to China in 1999, Beijing pitched in by relaxing visa restrictions for its citizens. The resulting boom pushed up Macau’s gross domestic product 27 percent in 2007 yet also boosted inflation to more than 9 percent.
Locals, who were already steaming about the bribe taking and money laundering of Ao Man Long, the territory’s secretary for transportation and public works, took to the streets to protest inflation-fueled rising prices. Ao, 53, was jailed by a Macau court for 28 ½ years in April.

Money Laundering

Chinese state media also began reporting that officials from the mainland were spending illicit funds or laundering money through Macau casinos. In May, two former managers of a Bank of China Ltd. branch in nearby Kaiping, who’d fled to the U.S., were jailed for more than 20 years by a Las Vegas court for defrauding the bank of $485 million and laundering some of it through Macau.

In August, official media reported that gangsters in one of China’s biggest cities, Chongqing, had set up loan-sharking operations in Macau. China gave no official reason for its decision to curtail visas.
"Beijing is interested in Macau’s stability and wants to portray it as a success," says Albert Louie, founder of A. Louie Associates Corp., which advises companies on risk. "But many high-level Chinese officials end up in Macau spending government money. They strut around like kings and queens."

‘Tip of Iceberg’

Free-spending Chinese cadres are just one blot on Macau’s global ambitions. In 2005, the U.S. Treasury blacklisted Macau’s Banco Delta Asia SARL for allegedly laundering money for North Korea. The bank, owned by Stanley Au, a former candidate for chief executive of Macau, denied the U.S. claims. Macau’s government took over management before returning the bank to Au in 2007. The U.S. agreed to allow Macau to release the money that year. The Treasury’s ban preventing the bank from accessing the U.S. financial system remains. This year, Kim Jong Nam, eldest son of North Korean dictator Kim Jong Il, was spotted in Macau and interviewed by Japanese television. "Bank Delta Asia was the tip of the iceberg," Louie says. "Macau is a financial window for North Korea." While Macau struggles with its international image, the recession is pinching gambling venues worldwide. In the first six months of 2009, Las Vegas Strip casino revenue fell 15 percent -- adding to what had been a record 11 percent decline in 2008. Macau’s gambling revenue dropped 10 percent in the first seven months of this year in part because of the visa restrictions. Atlantic City’s revenue was down 15 percent in that period.

City of Dreams

In his office high above one of Hong Kong’s trendiest nightlife districts, Lawrence Ho ponders the impact of the gloomy economy on his City of Dreams. The megacasino, across from Adelson’s Venetian on the now- stalled Cotai Strip, opened on June 1. That was two months before Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman predicted that a global recovery would take two years or more. On the plus side, the younger Ho says, it’s good to be up and running when your rivals are hurting. The downside?
"If City of Dreams doesn’t open well, it’s the endgame for us," he says.
One of his U.S. institutional shareholders agrees. "The way City of Dreams performs in the next few months will be critical not just for Melco Crown but also for the Cotai Strip and the long-term growth of Macau," says Charles Norton, Dallas-based portfolio manager of USA Mutuals’ Vice Fund.

Keep Their Shirts

So far, the signs indicate that Ho and Packer might keep their shirts. After a June when high rollers made too much money, the house won more of the bets placed in July and the first week of August.
Stanley Ho hasn’t had such worries because he didn’t go for the glitz. Ho, who is gutting a department store to refashion it as a $200 million casino called Oceanus, says thrift and local know-how leave him in better shape than his rivals. "Macau is limited in size and land is expensive, so gaming and leisure development must be more efficient," he wrote in his e-mail. "We follow a very conservative financial strategy. No matter how thorny the problem is, I will find a way through." Ho was forced to rely on his wits early on. Born into a prosperous Eurasian family in 1921, he fled to Macau from Hong Kong ahead of the invading Japanese army in World War II.

Pirate Fights

Ho started trading everything from kerosene to airplanes up and down the Pearl River Delta, once even fighting off pirates, according to Joe Studwell, author of "Asian Godfathers: Money and Power in Hong Kong and Southeast Asia" (Profile Books, 2007). He married Clementina Leitao, daughter of a prominent Macanese family. Macau was a commercial backwater with fishing, firecrackers and incense as the only industries. Yet Ho recognized Macau had one big advantage: Gambling was legal.
Macau is still the only place in Greater China where people can bet in a casino. In 1962, the colonial government awarded Ho and his partners a monopoly. Ho lured hard-core bettors into halls that had fading paint, worn carpets and croupiers whose bow ties wilted in the humidity.
His garish, yellow Hotel Lisboa, shaped like a bird cage, offered one concession to refinement: "no spitting" signs in Chinese, Portuguese and English. Gangs led by criminals with nicknames like "Broken Tooth" fought to run casino VIP rooms. Prostitutes and loan sharks patrolled casino entrances and exits.

‘Seedy’

When China took control of Macau in 1999, the People’s Liberation Army calmed the violence. Ho’s STDM had long dominated the Macau economy, contributing 75 percent of tax revenue each year. Beijing named him to the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Committee, which advises China’s leaders. Angela Leong became a member of the Macau legislature.
One thing China wouldn’t do was extend Ho’s gambling monopoly. Instead, Macau’s leaders voted to clean up the industry. The government allowed five new licenses and invited Las Vegas operators who’d already passed muster with U.S. regulators to apply. There was lots of cleaning up to do, says Frank Fahrenkopf, president of the Washington-based lobbying group American Gaming Association, who visited Macau in the last days of Ho’s monopoly. "Seedy is a polite word for what it was like," he says.

Adelson’s Bet

Adelson was first in. His $260 million Sands, a gold- colored building with 740 gaming tables, had a big selling point: It was next to the ferry and helicopter terminal and close to the land border with mainland China. Raffle tickets for the chance to drive back to China in a Lamborghini enticed gamblers. Compared with Ho’s tired offerings, the Sands created such novelty value that it paid for itself in the first eight months. Encouraged, Adelson plowed ahead with the Cotai Strip in another part of Macau, starting with the Venetian. He declined to be interviewed for this story.
Wynn wasn’t to be outdone. In 2006, he opened the $300-a- night Wynn Macau across from Ho’s Lisboa. Wynn hung Renoirs and Matisses in the lobby and displayed a $10 million Ming vase in the VIP Wynn Club.
The same year, Lui Che-woo, 77, a self-made Hong Kong billionaire, introduced the StarWorld. Even though it was fashioned in the Stanley Ho pure-gaming mold, Lui’s casino was more modern. Lui also unveiled plans for his own megaresort on the Cotai Strip.

In October 2007, he sold 20 percent of his Galaxy Entertainment Group Ltd. to Permira Advisers LLP, Europe’s biggest buyout firm, for 6.5 billion Hong Kong dollars ($840 million). Even with the cash injection, Lui too has been forced to slow construction.

No-Frills

As his rivals slugged it out, Stanley Ho wasn’t standing still. Convinced that his no-frills model still worked, he decided on a newer version of the Lisboa next door to his fading flagship. This time, Ho went for a 40-story high-rise shaped liked a giant lotus and named it the Grand Lisboa. With 430 rooms and 240 tables but no designer malls, convention center or shows, it cost $1 billion -- less than half the price of the $2.4 billion Venetian. Even so, the Ho family hedged its bets. As Stanley laid plans to battle the foreign invaders, his daughter and son were doing deals with them.

MGM Deals

In 2004, Kerkorian’s MGM Mirage announced it had taken Pansy Ho as its 50 percent partner for the MGM Grand Macau. The curvy gold-and-silver waterfront landmark with MGM’s lion roaring out front in July had a 12 percent market share. Pansy Ho might even end up with all of the MGM Grand, says Gabriel Chan, a Hong Kong-based analyst at Credit Suisse Group AG.

In May, MGM Mirage disclosed that investigators from the New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement, which oversees an MGM investment in an Atlantic City casino, had deemed Pansy an unsuitable partner. The investigators recommended MGM sever ties with her, giving no public explanation. MGM Mirage said it disagreed with the recommendation and would defend the partnership. Pansy Ho declined to comment until she could decide how to respond to the recommendation. Should MGM sell its Macau investment, she would be the most logical acquirer, Chan says. Either way, the investments of Pansy and Lawrence, 32, mean that five years after losing its monopoly, the Ho family retains full or partial control of more than half of the world’s biggest gaming market.

‘Huge Egos’

In this rarefied arena, pride has become almost as big a motivator as profits. Adelson and Wynn have extended their Las Vegas rivalry to Macau while Adelson and Ho have exchanged barbs.
Adelson told Bloomberg News in 2006 that his Macau investments would help him overtake Bill Gates and Warren Buffett in wealth.
"Huge egos are at play," Lawrence Ho says. Amid the sniping, investors are watching City of Dreams for clues to whether Macau’s Las Vegas-style strip will get back on track. Second only in size to the Venetian, the City of Dreams complex features Hard Rock and Crown hotels, 519 gaming tables, 1,350 slot machines and a 200-outlet shopping mall. A Hyatt hotel is set to open soon. At the June unveiling, firecrackers lighted the tropical sky as Lawrence Ho, Packer and their wives led the festivities.
Macau residents rushed the tables, ignoring for once the even- larger shadow of the Venetian across the road. Children and Competitors
Ho says he needs to attract about half of the 70,000 people a day who pass through the Venetian and get them to spend money at his venue. In July, the two Lawrence Ho-Packer casinos had a 17.8 percent market share compared with 21.6 percent for Adelson. Stanley Ho wrote in his e-mail that he, Lawrence and Pansy -- with their rival visions for Macau’s gambling future -- aren’t teaming up to quash the opposition. "They are my children but also my competitors," he said. Lawrence and Pansy say they never discuss work when the Hos have their regular dinners. "If you know our family, there are more interesting things to discuss than business," Lawrence jokes. Stanley Ho’s health makes any debate about the direction of gambling in Macau more urgent. "Between 2004 and 2007, the American casinos made a lot of noise," says Billy Ng, a Hong Kong-based gaming analyst at JPMorgan Chase & Co. "Whoever was willing to invest won. But now the game has changed. Whoever is leveraged most loses."

That could change again in an economic recovery, Ng says.
"I do not see why the Vegas model won’t work in Macau eventually," he says. "Chinese are pretty receptive to shopping and entertainment."
As his children embrace Las Vegas-inspired megaresorts and his own company sticks with the tried-and-tested no-frills Macau style, the King of Gambling may have successfully hedged his bets -- as long as his heirs concentrate on fighting the opposition and not each other.

teddybear
19-11-09, 12:32
If a person is a wealthy HIGH ROLLER, where would he choose to go? May be subjective but he can also do many things in Singapore with his mind at ease vs Macau because Singapore is safe, good education for his kids, good place for his wife to shop and live, nice food, nice and clean environment, easy connections via flights and cruises to many places for holidays or businesses. Basically a nice place for him/her & his family to settle down. Singapore is trying to sell that and given the advantages, it can be more successful than anywhere else which can't provide all the above (even vs US, HK, Macau etc).

The good old days of just building a gambling den and hoping to attract people is over. People now looks for the whole package, not just the gambling den (especially when there are now so many places offering the whole package).

Let's wait and see and we will know.

Actually if I am poor, I rather retire some where much cheaper overseas (and don't have to work so hard). However, if I am rich, Singapore is my first choice.


If you are a wealthy HIGH ROLLER, you will not come to Singapore Casino with all its rules, restrictions nad such. You will stay in Macau.

Attached is an article from BB comparing Sands and SJM.
We are like Sands, nice hotels, facility, conference blah blah blah.
But for those high roller, they might just be looking for plainly SJM.

Stanley Ho Shows He Makes Macau Money Vegas Men Can’t Replicate
2009-08-19 21:00:01.0 GMT

By William Mellor and Chia-Peck Wong
Aug. 20 (Bloomberg) -- On a sultry June morning in Macau, casino billionaire Stanley Ho strode into the Venetian, the gambling palace of American archrival Sheldon Adelson, and reflected on life, death and how not to succeed in the world’s biggest gaming market.
For almost half a century, Ho, 87, had reigned as King of Gambling in the 10-square-mile dot on the steamy South China coast. Even when he lost his government-bestowed monopoly in 2004, Ho resisted the glitzy casino resorts of Australian billionaire James Packer and U.S. moguls Kirk Kerkorian, Steve Wynn and Adelson.

Adelson’s vision proved particularly grandiose: He’s spending $12 billion to create a Vegas-style strip in Macau complete with a replica of his Nevada Venetian and its canals and singing gondoliers. Ho wasn’t impressed. "The success of one market model cannot be migrated to another," he told an audience at an international gaming expo in Adelson’s 3,000-room Venetian that June day, switching between perfect English and his mother tongue, Cantonese. "Ignoring Macau’s special characteristics and duplicating a Las Vegas or an Atlantic City would not be a successful strategy."

Ho’s Health

Unnoticed by most Westerners in the audience, Ho, who’d defied advancing age with daily swims and spins on the ballroom dance floor, uttered an aside in Cantonese that would prove
prescient: "How many decades can a man live?" he asked rhetorically.
Two months later, Ho’s role atop the Asian gambling haven that generated $13.8 billion in revenue last year -- more than Las Vegas and Atlantic City combined -- took a precarious turn.

On Aug. 4, Hong Kong’s Adventist Hospital confirmed newspaper items that reported Ho had been admitted for treatment. On Aug. 13, Ho’s spokeswoman, Janet Wong, said reports in Chinese papers that he had suffered a stroke were unfounded and he was progressing well. Neither of Ho’s publicly traded companies made a statement to the stock exchange.
In the absence of further details, investors scurried to study the sprawling Ho family tree -- including Ho’s 17 children by four different mothers -- to determine who might take over.

Olympic Torch

An octogenarian who’d carried the Olympic torch in Macau last year, Ho had never announced a successor. "Fit and healthy as I am, I have no plans to retire," he wrote in a June e-mail to Bloomberg News. Investors who have bet on Ho and his no-frills gambling halls have had reason to cheer. SJM Holdings Ltd., Macau’s largest casino operator by revenue, enjoyed 23 percent to 31 percent of the market this year through July, according to Portuguese news agency Lusa, which publishes monthly figures.

SJM shares gained 65 percent this year through Aug. 19, compared with a 30 percent rise for Wynn Resorts Ltd. and a 39 percent plunge for MGM Mirage. Las Vegas Sands more than doubled in the same period, after plummeting 99 percent to a low of $1.42 in March from its October 2007 high. Las Vegas Sands and Wynn got more than 60 percent of their revenue from Macau last year.

Ho’s Shun Tak Holdings Ltd., which runs most of the high- speed ferries and all of the helicopters that deliver gamblers to Macau from Hong Kong, soared 141 percent this year through Aug. 19. Son Lawrence Ho’s Nasdaq-listed Melco Crown Entertainment Ltd., which is 34 percent owned by his Melco International Development Ltd. and 34 percent by Packer’s Crown Ltd., owns two Macau casinos, including the $2.1 billion City of Dreams. Melco Crown shares rose 60 percent.

Winning Hand

So far, Ho’s strategy -- along with SJM’s lack of debt and booming stock price -- has dealt him a winning hand in Macau. Adelson, 76, who arrived in the former Portuguese colony in 2004, piloted Las Vegas Sands through a potential brush with bankruptcy in November by raising equity. His plan to re-create the Vegas experience in the Chinese territory hasn’t fared as well. Adelson has delayed construction on nine hotels and casinos with 21,000 rooms, leaving swaths of the nascent Cotai Strip covered by steel and concrete skeletons.

Kerkorian, 92, with his MGM Mirage, has amassed $12.4 billion of debt worldwide, and his company reported a $212.6 million net loss for the second quarter. Adelson and Wynn, 67, have announced plans that will enable them to boost capital by selling shares in their Macau businesses on the Hong Kong stock exchange.

Not a Gambler

Ho, who says his nickname is a misnomer because he doesn’t bet, has managed to outfox the newcomers by offering unadulterated gambling to Chinese content to live on noodles and cigarettes as they head for halls like his $1 billion Grand Lisboa. In Macau, which is about one-sixth the size of the city of Washington, the 23.5 million visitors who came last year stayed an average of 1.3 nights compared with 3 nights in Las Vegas, which augments dice rolls with Broadway-style shows and restaurants. Macau’s gamblers have been known to catch some sleep in massage parlors rather than pay for a hotel. "When the Americans showed up, they thought they would literally reshape Macau like Las Vegas," says Alex Motola, who helps manage $40 billion, including Las Vegas Sands shares, at Santa Fe, New Mexico-based Thornburg Investment Management Inc.
"The Macau audience is less focused on the ancillary things around gambling. Stanley, with his wealth of experience, understood that better."

Succession Concern

Now, the Hos are struggling with a concern that vexes all family-run businesses, especially those in Asia, says shareholder activist David Webb, a former independent director of the Hong Kong exchange and publisher of Webb-Site.com. "In Europe, many family companies have been around much longer," he says. "There’s an internal meritocracy that enables them to choose whichever is the best qualified cousin to be chief executive."
Ho’s current companion, Angela Leong, 48, mother of his five youngest children, is one likely candidate to head SJM, says John Koh, who helps manage $1.1 billion at MEAG Hong Kong Ltd. Leong is already an executive director at SJM.

Three of Ho’s daughters by his second wife hold top positions at Shun Tak and may continue running that company, Koh says. Pansy Ho, 46, an art lover who sits on the international advisory board of Sotheby’s, has been Shun Tak’s managing director for 10 years. Daisy, 44, is deputy managing director and chief financial officer; Maisy, 41, is an executive director.

‘Bright Children’

"He’s obviously got very bright children," says Sean Monaghan, a Singapore-based investment consultant. "Angela Leong is also very well respected. He’s been a force for so long that his children have become a force as well."

Ho also has built a long-serving non-family management team headed by SJM Chief Executive Officer Ambrose So. "He has got some very capable people," says Allan Zeman, a Hong Kong-based director of Wynn Resorts. "My take is it will be business as usual." First, Ho’s women, children and siblings will have to get along. In 2006, Winnie Ho, one of Stanley’s 13 brothers and sisters, filed more than 30 lawsuits against him.

The dispute over who owned the company’s family-held shares delayed SJM’s initial public offering, after Winnie, 86, claimed she was owed $386 million in dividends. Stanley Ho denied the allegations through his lawyers; the $494 million share sale went ahead in July 2008. In another squabble in 2001, Stanley Ho threatened to disinherit daughter Pansy when she briefly dated the son of a business rival.

‘Tectonic Plates’

Pansy and her stepmother Angela, who are virtually the same age, have had their differences. Both are on the board of Sociedade de Turismo e Diversoes de Macao, Ho’s private company that owns 61 percent of SJM. Ho’s third wife, Chan Un Chan, is an STDM shareholder, as are Winnie Ho and another sister, Louise Mok. "There has been serious family feuding," says Steve Vickers, Hong Kong-based CEO of FTI International Risk Ltd., who has performed investigations for potential Macau investors. "Stanley Ho was the magma that held the tectonic plates together," he says. "I don’t think any one of his wives or children will be strong enough to operate in the way he did."

Ho’s family also has to navigate the challenges confronting all of Macau’s gambling tycoons. Next year, two casinos will open in Singapore -- one of them Adelson’s $5.25 billion-plus Marina Bay Sands -- to attract high rollers that account for two-thirds of Macau’s annual casino revenue.

‘Up the Ante’

To continue to compete successfully beyond China, Macau needs to improve its air links, says Jonathan Galaviz, a partner at Las Vegas-based consulting firm Globalysis Ltd. "Airline service from strong, reputable carriers from the rest of Asia is critical for Macau to up the ante," he says.
Closer to home, the Chinese government is restricting entry visas to Macau for mainland Chinese. With a population of 544,000, Macau depends on nonlocal gamblers.After the Portuguese handed the territory back to China in 1999, Beijing pitched in by relaxing visa restrictions for its citizens. The resulting boom pushed up Macau’s gross domestic product 27 percent in 2007 yet also boosted inflation to more than 9 percent.
Locals, who were already steaming about the bribe taking and money laundering of Ao Man Long, the territory’s secretary for transportation and public works, took to the streets to protest inflation-fueled rising prices. Ao, 53, was jailed by a Macau court for 28 ½ years in April.

Money Laundering

Chinese state media also began reporting that officials from the mainland were spending illicit funds or laundering money through Macau casinos. In May, two former managers of a Bank of China Ltd. branch in nearby Kaiping, who’d fled to the U.S., were jailed for more than 20 years by a Las Vegas court for defrauding the bank of $485 million and laundering some of it through Macau.

In August, official media reported that gangsters in one of China’s biggest cities, Chongqing, had set up loan-sharking operations in Macau. China gave no official reason for its decision to curtail visas.
"Beijing is interested in Macau’s stability and wants to portray it as a success," says Albert Louie, founder of A. Louie Associates Corp., which advises companies on risk. "But many high-level Chinese officials end up in Macau spending government money. They strut around like kings and queens."

‘Tip of Iceberg’

Free-spending Chinese cadres are just one blot on Macau’s global ambitions. In 2005, the U.S. Treasury blacklisted Macau’s Banco Delta Asia SARL for allegedly laundering money for North Korea. The bank, owned by Stanley Au, a former candidate for chief executive of Macau, denied the U.S. claims. Macau’s government took over management before returning the bank to Au in 2007. The U.S. agreed to allow Macau to release the money that year. The Treasury’s ban preventing the bank from accessing the U.S. financial system remains. This year, Kim Jong Nam, eldest son of North Korean dictator Kim Jong Il, was spotted in Macau and interviewed by Japanese television. "Bank Delta Asia was the tip of the iceberg," Louie says. "Macau is a financial window for North Korea." While Macau struggles with its international image, the recession is pinching gambling venues worldwide. In the first six months of 2009, Las Vegas Strip casino revenue fell 15 percent -- adding to what had been a record 11 percent decline in 2008. Macau’s gambling revenue dropped 10 percent in the first seven months of this year in part because of the visa restrictions. Atlantic City’s revenue was down 15 percent in that period.

City of Dreams

In his office high above one of Hong Kong’s trendiest nightlife districts, Lawrence Ho ponders the impact of the gloomy economy on his City of Dreams. The megacasino, across from Adelson’s Venetian on the now- stalled Cotai Strip, opened on June 1. That was two months before Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman predicted that a global recovery would take two years or more. On the plus side, the younger Ho says, it’s good to be up and running when your rivals are hurting. The downside?
"If City of Dreams doesn’t open well, it’s the endgame for us," he says.
One of his U.S. institutional shareholders agrees. "The way City of Dreams performs in the next few months will be critical not just for Melco Crown but also for the Cotai Strip and the long-term growth of Macau," says Charles Norton, Dallas-based portfolio manager of USA Mutuals’ Vice Fund.

Keep Their Shirts

So far, the signs indicate that Ho and Packer might keep their shirts. After a June when high rollers made too much money, the house won more of the bets placed in July and the first week of August.
Stanley Ho hasn’t had such worries because he didn’t go for the glitz. Ho, who is gutting a department store to refashion it as a $200 million casino called Oceanus, says thrift and local know-how leave him in better shape than his rivals. "Macau is limited in size and land is expensive, so gaming and leisure development must be more efficient," he wrote in his e-mail. "We follow a very conservative financial strategy. No matter how thorny the problem is, I will find a way through." Ho was forced to rely on his wits early on. Born into a prosperous Eurasian family in 1921, he fled to Macau from Hong Kong ahead of the invading Japanese army in World War II.

Pirate Fights

Ho started trading everything from kerosene to airplanes up and down the Pearl River Delta, once even fighting off pirates, according to Joe Studwell, author of "Asian Godfathers: Money and Power in Hong Kong and Southeast Asia" (Profile Books, 2007). He married Clementina Leitao, daughter of a prominent Macanese family. Macau was a commercial backwater with fishing, firecrackers and incense as the only industries. Yet Ho recognized Macau had one big advantage: Gambling was legal.
Macau is still the only place in Greater China where people can bet in a casino. In 1962, the colonial government awarded Ho and his partners a monopoly. Ho lured hard-core bettors into halls that had fading paint, worn carpets and croupiers whose bow ties wilted in the humidity.
His garish, yellow Hotel Lisboa, shaped like a bird cage, offered one concession to refinement: "no spitting" signs in Chinese, Portuguese and English. Gangs led by criminals with nicknames like "Broken Tooth" fought to run casino VIP rooms. Prostitutes and loan sharks patrolled casino entrances and exits.

‘Seedy’

When China took control of Macau in 1999, the People’s Liberation Army calmed the violence. Ho’s STDM had long dominated the Macau economy, contributing 75 percent of tax revenue each year. Beijing named him to the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Committee, which advises China’s leaders. Angela Leong became a member of the Macau legislature.
One thing China wouldn’t do was extend Ho’s gambling monopoly. Instead, Macau’s leaders voted to clean up the industry. The government allowed five new licenses and invited Las Vegas operators who’d already passed muster with U.S. regulators to apply. There was lots of cleaning up to do, says Frank Fahrenkopf, president of the Washington-based lobbying group American Gaming Association, who visited Macau in the last days of Ho’s monopoly. "Seedy is a polite word for what it was like," he says.

Adelson’s Bet

Adelson was first in. His $260 million Sands, a gold- colored building with 740 gaming tables, had a big selling point: It was next to the ferry and helicopter terminal and close to the land border with mainland China. Raffle tickets for the chance to drive back to China in a Lamborghini enticed gamblers. Compared with Ho’s tired offerings, the Sands created such novelty value that it paid for itself in the first eight months. Encouraged, Adelson plowed ahead with the Cotai Strip in another part of Macau, starting with the Venetian. He declined to be interviewed for this story.
Wynn wasn’t to be outdone. In 2006, he opened the $300-a- night Wynn Macau across from Ho’s Lisboa. Wynn hung Renoirs and Matisses in the lobby and displayed a $10 million Ming vase in the VIP Wynn Club.
The same year, Lui Che-woo, 77, a self-made Hong Kong billionaire, introduced the StarWorld. Even though it was fashioned in the Stanley Ho pure-gaming mold, Lui’s casino was more modern. Lui also unveiled plans for his own megaresort on the Cotai Strip.

In October 2007, he sold 20 percent of his Galaxy Entertainment Group Ltd. to Permira Advisers LLP, Europe’s biggest buyout firm, for 6.5 billion Hong Kong dollars ($840 million). Even with the cash injection, Lui too has been forced to slow construction.

No-Frills

As his rivals slugged it out, Stanley Ho wasn’t standing still. Convinced that his no-frills model still worked, he decided on a newer version of the Lisboa next door to his fading flagship. This time, Ho went for a 40-story high-rise shaped liked a giant lotus and named it the Grand Lisboa. With 430 rooms and 240 tables but no designer malls, convention center or shows, it cost $1 billion -- less than half the price of the $2.4 billion Venetian. Even so, the Ho family hedged its bets. As Stanley laid plans to battle the foreign invaders, his daughter and son were doing deals with them.

MGM Deals

In 2004, Kerkorian’s MGM Mirage announced it had taken Pansy Ho as its 50 percent partner for the MGM Grand Macau. The curvy gold-and-silver waterfront landmark with MGM’s lion roaring out front in July had a 12 percent market share. Pansy Ho might even end up with all of the MGM Grand, says Gabriel Chan, a Hong Kong-based analyst at Credit Suisse Group AG.

In May, MGM Mirage disclosed that investigators from the New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement, which oversees an MGM investment in an Atlantic City casino, had deemed Pansy an unsuitable partner. The investigators recommended MGM sever ties with her, giving no public explanation. MGM Mirage said it disagreed with the recommendation and would defend the partnership. Pansy Ho declined to comment until she could decide how to respond to the recommendation. Should MGM sell its Macau investment, she would be the most logical acquirer, Chan says. Either way, the investments of Pansy and Lawrence, 32, mean that five years after losing its monopoly, the Ho family retains full or partial control of more than half of the world’s biggest gaming market.

‘Huge Egos’

In this rarefied arena, pride has become almost as big a motivator as profits. Adelson and Wynn have extended their Las Vegas rivalry to Macau while Adelson and Ho have exchanged barbs.
Adelson told Bloomberg News in 2006 that his Macau investments would help him overtake Bill Gates and Warren Buffett in wealth.
"Huge egos are at play," Lawrence Ho says. Amid the sniping, investors are watching City of Dreams for clues to whether Macau’s Las Vegas-style strip will get back on track. Second only in size to the Venetian, the City of Dreams complex features Hard Rock and Crown hotels, 519 gaming tables, 1,350 slot machines and a 200-outlet shopping mall. A Hyatt hotel is set to open soon. At the June unveiling, firecrackers lighted the tropical sky as Lawrence Ho, Packer and their wives led the festivities.
Macau residents rushed the tables, ignoring for once the even- larger shadow of the Venetian across the road. Children and Competitors
Ho says he needs to attract about half of the 70,000 people a day who pass through the Venetian and get them to spend money at his venue. In July, the two Lawrence Ho-Packer casinos had a 17.8 percent market share compared with 21.6 percent for Adelson. Stanley Ho wrote in his e-mail that he, Lawrence and Pansy -- with their rival visions for Macau’s gambling future -- aren’t teaming up to quash the opposition. "They are my children but also my competitors," he said. Lawrence and Pansy say they never discuss work when the Hos have their regular dinners. "If you know our family, there are more interesting things to discuss than business," Lawrence jokes. Stanley Ho’s health makes any debate about the direction of gambling in Macau more urgent. "Between 2004 and 2007, the American casinos made a lot of noise," says Billy Ng, a Hong Kong-based gaming analyst at JPMorgan Chase & Co. "Whoever was willing to invest won. But now the game has changed. Whoever is leveraged most loses."

That could change again in an economic recovery, Ng says.
"I do not see why the Vegas model won’t work in Macau eventually," he says. "Chinese are pretty receptive to shopping and entertainment."
As his children embrace Las Vegas-inspired megaresorts and his own company sticks with the tried-and-tested no-frills Macau style, the King of Gambling may have successfully hedged his bets -- as long as his heirs concentrate on fighting the opposition and not each other.

xebay11
19-11-09, 12:35
There will be some crumbs for Singapore. BTW the Singapore Govt are kings at making dirty money clean........legally :D

kali-yuga
19-11-09, 12:38
You sum it up best "let wait and see".
Really can't wait for the day it open.

xebay11
19-11-09, 12:48
If a person is a wealthy HIGH ROLLER, where would he choose to go? May be subjective but he can also do many things in Singapore with his mind at ease vs Macau because Singapore is safe, good education for his kids, good place for his wife to shop and live, nice food, nice and clean environment, easy connections via flights and cruises to many places for holidays or businesses. Basically a nice place for him/her & his family to settle down. Singapore is trying to sell that and given the advantages, it can be more successful than anywhere else which can't provide all the above (even vs US, HK, Macau etc).

The good old days of just building a gambling den and hoping to attract people is over. People now looks for the whole package, not just the gambling den (especially when there are now so many places offering the whole package).

Let's wait and see and we will know.

Actually if I am poor, I rather retire some where much cheaper overseas (and don't have to work so hard). However, if I am rich, Singapore is my first choice.

Not to mention good quality healthcare in SG for those who can afford, another plus point as a whole package for Singapore.

EBD
21-11-09, 12:35
What remains to be seen is when these gambling dens open, whether Singapore remain safe & pleasant or will start to degrade so a sleazy ,crime riddled, gangster infested sleazehole.

Reporter
21-11-09, 13:17
What remains to be seen is when these gambling dens open, whether Singapore remain safe & pleasant or will start to degrade so a sleazy ,crime riddled, gangster infested sleazehole.
Think Morocco. Think Bahamas. Should be OK.

focus
21-11-09, 13:50
Actually if I am poor, I rather retire some where much cheaper overseas (and don't have to work so hard). However, if I am rich, Singapore is my first choice.
Agreed! :) My choices would be China, Taiwan and Australia.
These 3 places can make a millionaire feel like a millionaire.
In Singapore, your few millions don't get you anywhere..
You feel like a peasant with your few millions sadly.

If not for my parents, I would have migrated long ago..

EBD
21-11-09, 14:54
Think Morocco. Think Bahamas. Should be OK.

Hope you're right.

Could never understand this casino move in the first place. Government has been so against gambling for decades.

Anyhow, at least my family has options should Singapore begin to turn into SinCity.

new2mondrian
29-03-10, 09:31
I agree Kim Yam Rd has potential. Prices should take off once all the condos finished construction. Up to 3 years ago, it was a pretty rough area, and this hurt property prices there. Moreover, many buildings were in a dilapilated condition. For example, the Peranakan shophouses which form part of the Wharf Residence were in that condition for many years.

During the past 3 years, there has been too much construction affecting rents. Once the Wharf residence, Vivace and Martin Place are completed, the whole area will be very nice, and will complement the pretty conservation shophouses. In addition, I believe the old school (next to Oleanas) is earmarked for an international school.

G17, you are right. Came out in page A5 of today's Straits Times that the Kim Yam road (ex Nan-Chiau school) site is earmarked for International school, with intake between 4500 to 7500 students and operational as early as 2013. Hopefully there REALLY would be an International school there soon! :D

Reporter
29-03-10, 13:34
http://www.sph.com.sg/images/logo_st.png
More space for foreign schools
Up to 3 schools can be built to ease shortage
Amelia Tan
The Straits Times
Monday, 29 March 2010

http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/image/20100329/intlschools-st.jpg
More public buildings and land will be released by the Government for up to three more foreign schools to meet the schooling needs of the growing expatriate community. -- Photo: Desmond Foo, ST

More public buildings and land will be released by the Government for up to 3 more foreign schools to meet the schooling needs of the growing expatriate community.

At full capacity, the 3 schools can take in between 4,500 and 7,500 students.

Currently, there are 94,000 international students enrolled in government and private schools here.

The new foreign schools can occupy the former Chong Boon Primary School in Ang Mo Kio Street 44, the former Nan Chiau High School in Kim Yam Road and 3 empty sites in Bukit Batok Road, Punggol Field Walk and Yishun Avenue 1.

The first can open as early as 2013 and the other 2 within the next 5 years after that, to add to the 41 international schools operating here already.

This is the second time that the Government has released vacant land and properties to meet the schooling needs of the growing expatriate community.

In 2008, the Economic Development Board (EDB) announced that 7 sites would be made available for up to 4 international schools to ease the supply crunch situation at that time.

Many international schools then were full, and the popular ones had long waiting lists. The shortage of places was so dire that it was a stumbling block for companies looking to bring in expatriate employees and their families.

When contacted, Member of Parliament Josephine Teo, the chairman of the Government Parliamentary Committee for Education, estimated that the 3 schools, if constructed, will ease the supply crunch - for now.

However, it remains to be seen if they would be sufficient in the long run as Singapore positions to be an attractive Asian hub for global talent, she told The Straits Times.

'It will be a matter of time before the additional places may not be enough and we will need to review the situation,' she said.

When asked if the expatriate community should consider Singapore schools for their children, Mrs Teo said there is already a growing number of foreigners who send their children to schools here to immerse them in a Mandarin-speaking environment.

However, expatriates may still prefer to send their children to international schools, she said.

Typically, most stay here for a few years before going back to their countries and prefer to send their children to international schools which they are more familiar with and can get used to quickly, Mrs Teo added.

The supply crunch had eased considerably since last year when a new international school Stamford American International School was set up. Older schools such as the United World College of South East Asia and the Australian International School Singapore have also expanded their premises.

The EDB's executive director of human capital and professional services Toh Wee Khiang said that demand for places in international schools held strong last year despite the recession, and is expected to grow as the economy bounces back.

The EDB received more than 20 proposals in 2008 and Mr Toh expects the response from interested schools this time round to be 'comparable'.

He said proposals would be assessed on factors such as quality of education programmes, track record, and investment commitments.

The EDB may make available other plots of land for international schools in the future based on strength of demand, he added.

new2mondrian
29-03-10, 14:24
Reporter, you are GOOD!

Thanks very much for posting the article. :) Keeping fingers crossed that something will materialise along Kim Yam soon.

Reporter
29-03-10, 14:37
Reporter, you are GOOD!

Thanks very much for posting the article. :) Keeping fingers crossed that something will materialise along Kim Yam soon.
No, lady, you are good.

You start the thread, smell the deal, took out the calculator, took out the chequebook, then took out the fingers (and crossed them), ..... :money-faced1:

proud owner
29-03-10, 23:58
G17, you are right. Came out in page A5 of today's Straits Times that the Kim Yam road (ex Nan-Chiau school) site is earmarked for International school, with intake between 4500 to 7500 students and operational as early as 2013. Hopefully there REALLY would be an International school there soon! :D

didnt i mention it last year that its going to be an international school there ??

dont trust my insider info lah .. ? have to wait to paper come out then believe ??

too late .. prices all priced in the school leow ..

Property_Owner
30-03-10, 10:15
didnt i mention it last year that its going to be an international school there ??

dont trust my insider info lah .. ? have to wait to paper come out then believe ??

too late .. prices all priced in the school leow ..

Pal, can rub rub your crystal ball again? :D :D

new2mondrian
30-03-10, 11:00
didnt i mention it last year that its going to be an international school there ??

dont trust my insider info lah .. ? have to wait to paper come out then believe ??

too late .. prices all priced in the school leow ..

proud owner, you got any more insider info or not? hey, i trust your insider info, that's why I made the move at Kim Yam! :)

Actually Waterford Residences at Kim Yam looks good... saw some owners advertising between 13XX-14XXpsf in Sat's papers..... hmmmm... anyone here vested at Waterford? Can share some info on that devt?

Reporter
30-03-10, 11:04
G17, you are right. Came out in page A5 of today's Straits Times that the Kim Yam road (ex Nan-Chiau school) site is earmarked for International school, with intake between 4500 to 7500 students and operational as early as 2013. Hopefully there REALLY would be an International school there soon! :D
didnt i mention it last year that its going to be an international school there ??

dont trust my insider info lah .. ? have to wait to paper come out then believe ??

too late .. prices all priced in the school leow ..
Pal, can rub rub your crystal ball again? :D :D
"Property_Owner", maybe the 4 of us should go to the ex-Nan-Chiau-School site to celebrate when they cut the ribbon to begin construction for the new foreign school? :money-faced2:

... but we don't know which property "proud owner" bought in that area ... :beats-me-man:

proud owner
30-03-10, 11:14
"Property_Owner", maybe the 4 of us should go to the ex-Nan-Chiau-School site to celebrate when they cut the ribbon to begin construction for the new foreign school? :money-faced2:

... but we don't know which property "proud owner" bought in that area ... :beats-me-man:

ahhaha

dont try to fish info ...

near but not close ...
simple ..

international school will attract expat families
but they wont stay next to temple ... not that they mind but they traffic jam there during ' Lunar First and Fifteen " they cannot tahan ..

if they want to rent .. it will be away from Kim Yam ....

i like balcony ... BUT not excessive type ...

Reporter
30-03-10, 11:26
ahhaha

dont try to fish info ...

near but not close ...
simple ..

international school will attract expat families
but they wont stay next to temple ... not that they mind but they traffic jam there during ' Lunar First and Fifteen " they cannot tahan ..

if they want to rent .. it will be away from Kim Yam ....

i like balcony ... BUT not excessive type ...
Expat families stay away from Kim Yam Road?

I have on-hand info and real-examples to prove that you are wrong.

Since you are so sure that you are right, I shall not share this info and examples with you. I am confident the market will prove you wrong in just a few months time.

Hmm ... betting my $100 on this is definitely better than donating it to CRA when I enter RWS.

proud owner
30-03-10, 11:31
Expat families stay away from Kim Yam Road?

I have on-hand info and real-examples to prove that you are wrong.

Since you are so sure that you are right, I shall not share this info and examples with you. I am confident the market will prove you wrong in just a few months time.

Hmm ... betting my $100 on this is definitely better than donating it to CRA when I enter RWS.


they would prefer the adjacent road/parallel than on that road itself ... except for the conservation terrace

eleong
30-03-10, 13:53
didnt i mention it last year that its going to be an international school there ??

dont trust my insider info lah .. ? have to wait to paper come out then believe ??

too late .. prices all priced in the school leow ..

er... your insider info not very insider le...

In Aug 08, it was already reported in the papers that the ex Nan Chiau site is one of 7 sites open for use by international schools. Only 1 site at Upp Serangoon was awarded later that year to Stamford American Intl School.

Anyway, if you know the details of this RFI, this ex Nan Chiau site is only an interim site that can be used for up to 3+3 yrs. The school will have to shift to a permanent site subsequently. I guess there are other plans for this site later, which is marked as a reserve site in the master plan.

new2mondrian
30-03-10, 16:13
er... your insider info not very insider le...

In Aug 08, it was already reported in the papers that the ex Nan Chiau site is one of 7 sites open for use by international schools. Only 1 site at Upp Serangoon was awarded later that year to Stamford American Intl School.

Anyway, if you know the details of this RFI, this ex Nan Chiau site is only an interim site that can be used for up to 3+3 yrs. The school will have to shift to a permanent site subsequently. I guess there are other plans for this site later, which is marked as a reserve site in the master plan.

amazing, so many forumers with such insightful news!

Okies.... the million dollar question - who has any insider info on what is the long term use for the RESERVE site at Kim Yam???? The site area is huge for that location...

eleong
30-03-10, 16:52
My gut feel is there should be takers for this site as an international school. The longer term plan we'll only know in 2013 or 2018 when the next MPs are out.

Condorich
30-03-10, 18:29
Things will change. Just hope that luck is with you.

Masterplan is not cast in stone. It can change too.

Just buy something that you see has good potential.. when nobody sees its as a gem, you will win big when it becomes a diamond.

Buy when no one is buying. Sell when everyone is buying.. to borrow some words of wisdom said by others.

tanumy
30-03-10, 18:32
D18 got japanese school and many foreigners in near future due to upcoming changi business park and singapore 4th university.

Condorich
30-03-10, 18:35
This is one hell of a irritant.

new2mondrian
30-03-10, 19:55
My gut feel is there should be takers for this site as an international school. The longer term plan we'll only know in 2013 or 2018 when the next MPs are out..


Things will change. Just hope that luck is with you.

Masterplan is not cast in stone. It can change too.

Just buy something that you see has good potential.. when nobody sees its as a gem, you will win big when it becomes a diamond.

Buy when no one is buying. Sell when everyone is buying.. to borrow some words of wisdom said by others.

i know what u guys meant....

anyway, i am very familiar with the Stamford American International School site since Parc Mondrian is next to it.... I just took the size of Stamford American School site (which is huge at 8000sqm) in INLIS, and compared it with the Nan Chiau site in INLIS (which is approx 22000sqm; the Stamford American School is really puny in comparison....

I sniff a diamond somewhere... maybe I shd....

zeroam6
05-04-10, 19:22
Most of the traffic to the temple comes from the bus stop from river valley. If you are referring to the condo just after the temple, it not so congested. there is constant construction around the area and likely to be for the foreseeable future especially with the wharf residences being constructed along Tong what road.

new2mondrian
06-04-10, 17:49
Most of the traffic to the temple comes from the bus stop from river valley. If you are referring to the condo just after the temple, it not so congested. there is constant construction around the area and likely to be for the foreseeable future especially with the wharf residences being constructed along Tong what road.

agree that the temple goers are fine... generally older folks who arrive by bus. anyway, i am keen on the whole stretch of kim yam road. anyone with any good deals along kim yam, plse pm me. thanks.

new2mondrian
04-08-10, 18:47
Sorry to revive this old thread...

Recently I am lookg all around Kim Yam.... Oleanas Residences, Waterford Residences, The Wharf...

Very strange. The devt along Martin Place Residences and Oleanas (formerly Kim Yam Heights) side do not have a height limit of 10 storeys; whereas devts on the other side of the road (Waterford, Wharf, Langston) all have a 10-storey height limit. Anyone knows why?

And anyone vested at Waterford Residences? Any comments on that devt? Thanks!

bargain hunter
04-08-10, 19:06
i am not sure why but as usual, capitaland seems to have "privileges". wharf can go up to #22 just like rivergate can go to #43 while no one else in the area can go above #36 normally. yes, kim yam road does divide the height thing, just as from rivergate onwards robertson blue, robertson 100, 8 rodyk, watermark, martin no. 38, inspira are also short dev.

the only reason i can think of is that they decided that east of kim yam road is too near uncle lee's house and perhaps istana too. :ashamed1:

its the same for kiliney road, east of kiliney road short short, west of it can go to #36.


Sorry to revive this old thread...

Recently I am lookg all around Kim Yam.... Oleanas Residences, Waterford Residences, The Wharf...

Very strange. The devt along Martin Place Residences and Oleanas (formerly Kim Yam Heights) side do not have a height limit of 10 storeys; whereas devts on the other side of the road (Waterford, Wharf, Langston) all have a 10-storey height limit. Anyone knows why?

And anyone vested at Waterford Residences? Any comments on that devt? Thanks!

new2mondrian
04-08-10, 19:10
yeah... that's why I'm keen on Waterford as well. If one day URA decides to equalise all the height limits along Kim Yam, those which are currently caught by the 10-storey rule will strike jackpot.

bargain hunter
04-08-10, 19:12
wah, u bot langston last year, this year wanna add in the area again. crouching tiger again hehehe.

not vested in waterford and dun want to be slammed by owners so to keep it short, i feel its a "you look at me, i look at you development". :ashamed1:

units are of efficient design though. :)



Sorry to revive this old thread...

Recently I am lookg all around Kim Yam.... Oleanas Residences, Waterford Residences, The Wharf...

Very strange. The devt along Martin Place Residences and Oleanas (formerly Kim Yam Heights) side do not have a height limit of 10 storeys; whereas devts on the other side of the road (Waterford, Wharf, Langston) all have a 10-storey height limit. Anyone knows why?

And anyone vested at Waterford Residences? Any comments on that devt? Thanks!

bargain hunter
04-08-10, 19:16
personally, i think it won't be so soon. should take quite awhile but that would be your purpose for investing in waterford anyway, for the long haul until it en-blocs. if uncle lee is the issue then not too bad, once his family move out maybe can up the ratio. but if its the istana (a bit far i feel), then long time also won't raise the ratio hee. anyway, better let the experts comment. mine is just a crooked reasoning LOL.


yeah... that's why I'm keen on Waterford as well. If one day URA decides to equalise all the height limits along Kim Yam, those which are currently caught by the 10-storey rule will strike jackpot.

new2mondrian
04-08-10, 19:21
aiyoh, what crouching tiger??? cannot compare to all the tigers/dragons in this forum lah....

i have been prowling the whole kim yam stretch but still haven't bought anything besides langston leh. so far is look see look see only. :D

but i like kim yam.... perched on a hill, and away from the madding crowd (at robertson quay). near but not too near robertson.... for that same reason, i like aspen too. but aspen is also another "i look at you, u look at me" devt. not much privacy.

new2mondrian
04-08-10, 19:25
personally, i think it won't be so soon. should take quite awhile but that would be your purpose for investing in waterford anyway, for the long haul until it en-blocs. if uncle lee is the issue then not too bad, once his family move out maybe can up the ratio. but if its the istana (a bit far i feel), then long time also won't raise the ratio hee. anyway, better let the experts comment. mine is just a crooked reasoning LOL.

actually no need to raise the plot ratio. currently the plot ratio for all kim yam devts is 2.8, enuf to build to more than 20 levels. just that certain devts on langston side have an artificial cap of 10-storeys building height limit imposed on them. which is kinda strange. it is those devts which have such a 10-storey cap which i am interested in. ;)

bargain hunter
04-08-10, 19:26
i believe the distance between blocks for waterford will be closer. i also like kim yam area. the drunks will only hit 7 eleven so maybe only vivace, robertson edge and some units at wharf will hear the drunkards. :D waterford, oleanas onwards safe (drunks too drunk to climb uphill anyway, in movies climb a few steps, roll down even more kekeke). :)


aiyoh, what crouching tiger??? cannot compare to all the tigers/dragons in this forum lah....

i have been prowling the whole kim yam stretch but still haven't bought anything besides langston leh. so far is look see look see only. :D

but i like kim yam.... perched on a hill, and away from the madding crowd (at robertson quay). near but not too near robertson.... for that same reason, i like aspen too. but aspen is also another "i look at you, u look at me" devt. not much privacy.

bargain hunter
04-08-10, 19:28
oh yeah, i meant height restriction not plot ratio, sorry a bit tired. better correct myself else will get insulted by other pple like poor devilplate one u know. :o


actually no need to raise the plot ratio. currently the plot ratio for all kim yam devts is 2.8, enuf to build to more than 20 levels. just that certain devts on langston side have an artificial cap of 10-storeys building height limit imposed on them. which is kinda strange. it is those devts which have such a 10-storey cap which i am interested in. ;)

new2mondrian
04-08-10, 19:33
oh yeah, i meant height restriction not plot ratio, sorry a bit tired. better correct myself else will get insulted by other pple like poor devilplate one u know. :o

aiyah, dun bother about the insulting remarks. poor devilplate made the mistake of replying to the insults. ignoring such folks is key. after all, like all kids throwing tantrums, such people thrive on attention mah. :D


i believe the distance between blocks for waterford will be closer. i also like kim yam area. the drunks will only hit 7 eleven so maybe only vivace, robertson edge and some units at wharf will hear the drunkards. :D waterford, oleanas onwards safe (drunks too drunk to climb uphill anyway, in movies climb a few steps, roll down even more kekeke). :)

yeah... actually a lot of forummers are vested ard kim yam. it is a good place to stay, and with a lot of potential too. my hubby likes Oleanas. But i find it a bit old. But units on higher floors do have a nice view of the marina bay area, and relatively unblocked too. too bad oleanas doesn't belong to those caught by the 10-storey rule, which I feel have more potential, ceteris paribus at the same psf price point.

bargain hunter
04-08-10, 20:04
but for oleanas, the good view of marina bay is a bit tricky. the 4 bedroom unit only has a pathetic small window facing the bay. the 3 bedroom loft at 1636 sq ft is a little too big but unique in the area. the 1141sq ft 3 bedder on the other hand is too small. :doh: personally i like the 3 bedroom loft as a property but as an investment, far from ideal, quantum is already high, asking price is also high and few units come on the market anyway.


aiyah, dun bother about the insulting remarks. poor devilplate made the mistake of replying to the insults. ignoring such folks is key. after all, like all kids throwing tantrums, such people thrive on attention mah. :D



yeah... actually a lot of forummers are vested ard kim yam. it is a good place to stay, and with a lot of potential too. my hubby likes Oleanas. But i find it a bit old. But units on higher floors do have a nice view of the marina bay area, and relatively unblocked too. too bad oleanas doesn't belong to those caught by the 10-storey rule, which I feel have more potential, ceteris paribus at the same psf price point.

devilplate
04-08-10, 21:31
i was looking at waterford just b4 it TOP due to its cheap psf of ard 13xxpsf...ard march-april period. there will be tons of construction gg on...wharf and diagonally opposite state land is oredi sold to build offices....PLUS the temple just beside....very active temple....

i prefer inspira...but was turned off by the address and the immediate surrounding too.

wharf not bad...last yr 1250psf lelong! hehe:D

new2mondrian
22-01-11, 08:45
the only reason i can think of is that they decided that east of kim yam road is too near uncle lee's house and perhaps istana too. :ashamed1:

its the same for kiliney road, east of kiliney road short short, west of it can go to #36.

Sorry to revive this old topic. Uncle Lee came out in ytd's straits times to state that the town planners are to allow the properties around his house to build up and increase in land value after he is gone. Just wondering which are the ones, besides Kim yam road, with such height restrictions currently. Anyone knows?

kingkong1984
22-01-11, 08:49
Look under masterplan. Locate oxley road.

hyenergix
22-01-11, 08:57
I doubt the government will demolish his house, but probably preserve it and still allows the plot ratio of surrounding area to increase.

bargain hunter
24-01-11, 13:17
actually, i think he is only referring to the oxley road around his house lah. his neighbours basically and those along dublin road. but opposite his house is a newly developed landed project by a rich man called Mr. Neo. Its called Oxley Neo Residences (non strata landed). becoz nearby the botanic on lloyd etc is already 5 storey leh.


Sorry to revive this old topic. Uncle Lee came out in ytd's straits times to state that the town planners are to allow the properties around his house to build up and increase in land value after he is gone. Just wondering which are the ones, besides Kim yam road, with such height restrictions currently. Anyone knows?