The Tennery (D23, 99/103 years LH, Far East Organization)

[devilplate]

Well as I mentioned in my first post I did not pay $1300 psf so don't ask me.
Secondly, if you are comparing a new car and a used car, it is different from comparing two new cars, so please buy Linear, Aspen Heights or whatever....as that is the 'logical' thing to do if you want the most bang for your buck.
Thirdly, a quick trawl through the other threads on this board reveals the same theme, i.e, new projects are too expensive, developer is making a killing etc.
At the end of the day, to each his own.
I like (for whatever reasons) I buy, if not, I give it a miss.
I have been buying property since 1989 and I have not lost any money to date...

relax ....

btw, 700k can only buy mayspring 2bedder?

[monstertoi]

It is a high ceiling unit so effectively you can place your bedroom on the top deck ( i can stand comfortably on the top deck) and the bottom floor can be used as a study room (or vice versa).

[Regulators]

the other thing is what kind of kachang puteh rental can a 614sf 1 bedder fetch at tennery next time? spend 700k and collect $1k plus rental is not fantastic at all. A lot of these agents at the showflat will tell you tenants are attrracted to new projects and won't mind paying $2k plus for a 1 bedder at a new project but i think that is bullshit. if you tell me a 1 bedder can fetch good rental at icon or some CBD condo, i understand why, but a 1 bedder fetching good rental yield in the suburbs makes no sense. the tenant profile for suburban condos are usually those with families and they go for big units that are economical and with full condo facilities, and age of the property is not a usually a key factor if the unit is well-maintained on a whole.

mabe skyhigh can give u an answer?

let say budget 700k...any other better choice den this 614sqft 1bedder at tennery?

if aspen hts got 1bedder at 700k...i am sure HOT HOT

[rattydrama]

Looks like Far East bullish on D23 and can single-handedly bring up the prices of D23... machiam D23 monopoly. Even Bukit Panjang 99LH can fetch above $1000psf... must take my hats off...

I am happy cos vested interest in D23 right now. FEO also going to Woodlands very soon and they will bring up the prices there too!

[kingkong1984]

the other thing is what kind of kachang puteh rental can a 614sf 1 bedder fetch at tennery next time? spend 700k and collect $1k plus rental is not fantastic at all. A lot of these agents at the showflat will tell you tenants are attrracted to new projects and won't mind paying $2k plus for a 1 bedder at a new project but i think that is bullshit. if you tell me a 1 bedder can fetch good rental at icon or some CBD condo, i understand why, but a 1 bedder fetching good rental yield in the suburbs makes no sense. the tenant profile for suburban condos are usually those with families and they go for big units that are economical and with full condo facilities, and age of the property is not a usually a key factor if the unit is well-maintained on a whole.

You have a point. Two segments. One cheap prc, Ang mo tenants would go for rh at 2.5k or more a month. One is for young and single working boys or girls. Rent a unit for 3 or 4 pax is quite logical. Each paying 500 would make it. Quite likely 5 or 6 pax there and tat would make it 2.5 to 3k.

[skyhigh]

The points raised are reasonable but if I compare the 1-bedder which my friend bought at Suites @ Orchard for over $2000 psf vs my hole in the wall at Tennery, he will need to ask 4K rental vs 2K+ for me.
So I asked a foreign acquaintance at SMU and she said, no thanks, I will continue to stay at Suites @ Marne for 2K and commute by MRT to campus...
Also, the trend is for people to live-work-play in the same place so why should this be impossible in the suburbs?
A naturopath-friend of mine who lives in CCK has already expressed interest in renting my unit as the better location and facilities will allow him to see patients 'at home' while still allowing him to travel easily to Jurong East, Holland V and CBD.
And he only needs to pop downstairs if he needs ice, muesli or kampong chicken.
I think that there will have to be a change of mindset; i.e suburbs = only for big families.
I have lived in Bt Timah for 50 years; when I was growing up, Clementi (as in Sunset Way area) was considered ulu and 7th mile and 10th mile even more so.
I also remember the C&C assembly plant at Hillview and the Ford factory; all very ulu with hardly any housing.
Look at the situation now and you will know what I mean.

[august]

A naturopath-friend of mine who lives in CCK has already expressed interest in renting my unit as the better location and facilities will allow him to see patients 'at home' while still allowing him to travel easily to Jurong East, Holland V and CBD.
And he only needs to pop downstairs if he needs ice, muesli or kampong chicken.

curious me, how do u define "travel easily to Holland V and CBD"?
i see the future bt timah downtown line as no different from taking mrt from pasir ris to city hall... as for holland V probably driving is still much faster ~

[skyhigh]

curious me, how do u define "travel easily to Holland V and CBD"?
i see the future bt timah downtown line as no different from taking mrt from pasir ris to city hall... as for holland V probably driving is still much faster ~

Ok, sure, please look for a parking space at Holland V at lunch time or weekends, or cough up the ERP and parking charges at One Raffles Quay or some such.....

I hate the MRT as much as you do; in the early days one could get seats; nowadays even at non-peak times there are few available (and I am elderly) BUT at least one can get to places rain or shine and regardless of traffic conditions..

[devilplate]

The points raised are reasonable but if I compare the 1-bedder which my friend bought at Suites @ Orchard for over $2000 psf vs my hole in the wall at Tennery, he will need to ask 4K rental vs 2K+ for me.
So I asked a foreign acquaintance at SMU and she said, no thanks, I will continue to stay at Suites @ Marne for 2K and commute by MRT to campus...

studio@marne in D8 wor...city fringe location....cannot compare with tennery....

those apts in little india area attracts those ang mor who is tight in budget and yet wana stay close to city....and they dun mind tat area

[august]

Ok, sure, please look for a parking space at Holland V at lunch time or weekends, or cough up the ERP and parking charges at One Raffles Quay or some such.....

oic..... of cos between owning a car and not owning one the tradeoff is between better quality of life vs saving heaps of $$

no need to be defensive bcos my curiosity is towards definition of "travel easily" meaning do u define it by traveling experience? such as time saved, distance, ride comfort, that kind of thing...

e.g. traveling to Holland V by downtown line and then switching to circle line seems like will end up taking more time.. which to me the "traditional locations" like bishan even amk would be far superior

[august]

having said that i do think all these Upp bt timah and woodlands locations' upside is in the future when the inevitable link up of Johore and Spore by mrt takes place

convenience to CBD all that at the moment is not really a gd sell hehe ~~

[devilplate]

the other thing is what kind of kachang puteh rental can a 614sf 1 bedder fetch at tennery next time? spend 700k and collect $1k plus rental is not fantastic at all. A lot of these agents at the showflat will tell you tenants are attrracted to new projects and won't mind paying $2k plus for a 1 bedder at a new project but i think that is bullshit. if you tell me a 1 bedder can fetch good rental at icon or some CBD condo, i understand why, but a 1 bedder fetching good rental yield in the suburbs makes no sense. the tenant profile for suburban condos are usually those with families and they go for big units that are economical and with full condo facilities, and age of the property is not a usually a key factor if the unit is well-maintained on a whole.

hmmm...i get to know a 1bedder at compass hts rented out at 2.5k pm recently

if u do a search now, i doubt u can find any brandnew/less den 3yo MMs below 2k

only places like ppl park, some old walk up apts can find 1.5-2k rental now....the rest will be room rental liao

[skyhigh]

studio@marne in D8 wor...city fringe location....cannot compare with tennery....

Why cannot compare?

500 sq ft vs 600 sq ft
One bedder
MRT nearby
Mall nearby
1000psf to buy
Similar rental

The 2 developments 'fringe' different areas but my earlier point was that boundaries are going to be re-drawn and blurred in the years ahead.
A few years ago I would not have considered staying in Dakota or Spottiswood or Bedok Reservoir or Lakeside or whatever...but all you experts bang your drums and rave and say how desirable these areas are nowadays so I accept that.

[teddybear]

When Upper Bt Timah and Woodlands link up to Johor by MRT?
May be by then it is much cheaper to live in JB and take MRT to Woodlands & Bukit Panjang?

having said that i do think all these Upp bt timah and woodlands locations' upside is in the future when the inevitable link up of Johore and Spore by mrt takes place

convenience to CBD all that at the moment is not really a gd sell hehe ~~

[devilplate]

Why cannot compare?

500 sq ft vs 600 sq ft
One bedder
MRT nearby
Mall nearby
1000psf to buy
Similar rental

The 2 developments 'fringe' different areas but my earlier point was that boundaries are going to be re-drawn and blurred in the years ahead.
A few years ago I would not have considered staying in Dakota or Spottiswood or Bedok Reservoir or Lakeside or whatever...but all you experts bang your drums and rave and say how desirable these areas are nowadays so I accept that.

i tink closest comparison will be compass hts vs tennery

[kingkong1984]

When Upper Bt Timah and Woodlands link up to Johor by MRT?
May be by then it is much cheaper to live in JB and take MRT to Woodlands & Bukit Panjang?

the JB gang makes it worthwhile to you? Black and White Gang..

We are all white here.

[kingkong1984]

i tink closest comparison will be compass hts vs tennery

Use jurong point as benchmark. This one already beats it. Way better. 3.4 meters makes double room for same space.

[devilplate]

Use jurong point as benchmark. This one already beats it. Way better. 3.4 meters makes double room for same space.

so i tink 1bedder at tennery possible to fetch 2.5k for f/f based on current condition

i tink 3.4m ceiling ht not possible to build a loft leh....i saw the greenwich showflat...i tink 4.6-4.8m....cant rmb...and quite comfortable to build a loft

3.4m divide into 2 only 1.7m....tall ppl goto suffer

[moneymatters]

I am happy cos vested interest in D23 right now. FEO also going to Woodlands very soon and they will bring up the prices there too!

FEO and CityDev is lifting prices up for D23 property with good response at Tennery and recent sell out of Tree House. Wing Tai should be gearing up to launch the plot next to Tree House in the 1st Q 2011. It will be interesting to see how high developers bid for the mixed development site at Jelebu/Petir Road site. This integrated commercial/residential site linking up future Bukit Panjang MRT/LRT/Bus Interchange should be a keen contest between Lend Lease, Capitaland/CMA, Far East & other consortium eg. Pramerica, SPH/NTUC Choice

[kingkong1984]

so i tink 1bedder at tennery possible to fetch 2.5k for f/f based on current condition

i tink 3.4m ceiling ht not possible to build a loft leh....i saw the greenwich showflat...i tink 4.6-4.8m....cant rmb...and quite comfortable to build a loft

3.4m divide into 2 only 1.7m....tall ppl goto suffer

maybe can built as 2 meters below and 1.4 meters above for small children. some adults are just 1.6 meters each.

[propertychap]

Am I right to say an area which big developers have a foothold in will never go wrong for investors? Tennery & Treehouse, The Arte & Vista Res?

[skyhigh]

Aiyoh, monstertoi, devilplate and kingkong....the ceiling height is 3.4m.
At Greenwich it is 3.35m (some are 4.75m).
The loft height is only 1.1m or so for Tennery.
A child can stand, not an adult.
But you can use it for storage or sleeping.

[ay123]

Am I right to say an area which big developers have a foothold in will never go wrong for investors? Tennery & Treehouse, The Arte & Vista Res?

quite agree. but developers already cream up most potential upside leaving a bit for buyer unless holder much longer

[Wild Falcon]

I think its important to compare new vs new and resale vs resale. So if you think Aspen Heights or D9 is sorely undervalued compared to D23, then u shd compare Aspen Hts at 1,450psf vs Maysprings at $650psf and u will see the premium is >100%. I believe a new launch at D9 would be >2000psf. But interesting that comparing new to new, OCR is catching up with CCR. So it appears developers might be more bullish on OCR. Not advocating buying new properties - but if one want so compare resale, then should be comparing similar resale in other districts.

i still cannot understand

why pay 1300 psf for that area ?

why not pay 1450 psf for Aspen Height? FH .. near future MRT ...near town ... near CBD ... eateries, shopping ...


if die die must stay D23 ...why not older ECs like Windermere , Yew Mei , etc at Yew Tee ..so near Yew tee station ... with amenities there too ..
also good layout ..no silly balcony, no insane aircon ledge
3bedroom 1281 sqft ..at windermere ..less than 700psf (right? i havent checked)

[teddybear]

Even 4.6-4.8 m also very low, divide into 2 is like 2.3-2.4m, HDB ceiling height but paying private price? Loft unit is either for the rich people who doesn't need to partition the tall ceiling into 2 to create extra space or for the impractical people who want the tall ceiling but can't afford to buy extra space and end up partitioning the ceiling into 2 and getting katek ceiling! Living in katek-ceiling house will make people become katek (look katek, behave 'katek', think 'katek' (aka short-sighted)).

so i tink 1bedder at tennery possible to fetch 2.5k for f/f based on current condition

i tink 3.4m ceiling ht not possible to build a loft leh....i saw the greenwich showflat...i tink 4.6-4.8m....cant rmb...and quite comfortable to build a loft

3.4m divide into 2 only 1.7m....tall ppl goto suffer

[Regulators]

don't mean to be a wet blanket or anything, but just take a look at current rentals in bukit panjang, especially mayspring and you will understand what i am talking about. can't compare rentals in the central and suburbs. An old 2 bedder at mayspring opens to a wider group of tenants compared to a one bedder at tennery. Only advantage you have is tennery when TOP will be new, but a lot of foreign tenants i know are concerned about only a few things, namely location, price, facilities, proximity to mrt (part of location), nearby amenities and age of the property usually comes last and they wouldnt mind an older unit/development so long as it is well-maintained. Also an HDB EA near the future MRT asking for only 2.5k with the bt panjang plaza just across the road, you will also be competing with those landlords.

The points raised are reasonable but if I compare the 1-bedder which my friend bought at Suites @ Orchard for over $2000 psf vs my hole in the wall at Tennery, he will need to ask 4K rental vs 2K+ for me.
So I asked a foreign acquaintance at SMU and she said, no thanks, I will continue to stay at Suites @ Marne for 2K and commute by MRT to campus...
Also, the trend is for people to live-work-play in the same place so why should this be impossible in the suburbs?
A naturopath-friend of mine who lives in CCK has already expressed interest in renting my unit as the better location and facilities will allow him to see patients 'at home' while still allowing him to travel easily to Jurong East, Holland V and CBD.
And he only needs to pop downstairs if he needs ice, muesli or kampong chicken.
I think that there will have to be a change of mindset; i.e suburbs = only for big families.
I have lived in Bt Timah for 50 years; when I was growing up, Clementi (as in Sunset Way area) was considered ulu and 7th mile and 10th mile even more so.
I also remember the C&C assembly plant at Hillview and the Ford factory; all very ulu with hardly any housing.
Look at the situation now and you will know what I mean.

[Regulators]

Have you been to the 1 bedroom loft at 2 RVG? The place looks so crammed and no place for sofa, have to put cushion padding on bay window to form a sofa and television only can mount on wall and when sitting on sofa, have to sit sideways to watch. The funniest part is the study area can only be created middle of the stairway. This kind of loft so sia suay that i wouldnt even dare call it a D10 loft.

Even 4.6-4.8 m also very low, divide into 2 is like 2.3-2.4m, HDB ceiling height but paying private price? Loft unit is either for the rich people who doesn't need to partition the tall ceiling into 2 to create extra space or for the impractical people who want the tall ceiling but can't afford to buy extra space and end up partitioning the ceiling into 2 and getting katek ceiling! Living in katek-ceiling house will make people become katek (look katek, behave 'katek', think 'katek' (aka short-sighted)).

[skyhigh]

don't mean to be a wet blanket or anything, but just take a look at current rentals in bukit panjang, especially mayspring and you will understand what i am talking about. can't compare rentals in the central and suburbs. An old 2 bedder at mayspring opens to a wider group of tenants compared to a one bedder at tennery. Only advantage you have is tennery when TOP will be new, but a lot of foreign tenants i know are concerned about only a few things, namely location, price, facilities, proximity to mrt (part of location), nearby amenities and age of the property usually comes last and they wouldnt mind an older unit/development so long as it is well-maintained. Also an HDB EA near the future MRT asking for only 2.5k with the bt panjang plaza just across the road, you will also be competing with those landlords.

A few years ago when I was looking at 2-bedders in Maysprings I met one of the tenants.
He was moving out because of one word: "inconvenience".
When the MRT is ready Maysprings rentals and prices will go up, of that there is little doubt.
You have forgotten, or perhaps do not comprehend, the other word: "lifestyle". This is what the young, single or perhaps newlywed couple will be looking for, and there is going to be more of that at Tennery than Linear, Hazel Park and any HDB for sure.
When I am at Bt Panjang Plaza drinking my kopi-c at Wang (this is all I can now afford having recklessly gambled my savings away on Tennery ) I often look across to Starbucks to see the sort of customer there who is prepared to spend a lot more for ambience and a latte; that is the kind of tenant I am looking for!
And by the time Tennery is ready, Maysprings will be very old; it is a lovely estate but it is looking the worse for wear.
Well, let's wait and see whether your predictions come true; for now, I am keeping an open mind.

[kingkong1984]

You need to hold till MRT line is up, the mixed development is up. The road works (flyover or underpass) is up. At least 5 years.

[skyhigh]

You need to hold till MRT line is up, the mixed development is up. The road works (flyover or underpass) is up. At least 5 years.

Flyover and MRT scheduled for 2015.
TOP 2012 maybe, so probably 3 years.
I was just reading the LTA documents for the mixed tender; looks good and I will not be surprised to see psf prices there even higher than Tennery.