8courtyards

[Xan]

Nowadays when a new project is launched, the first week is always packed with pple. This scenario happens in Projects like gold, isle, nv, minton, CR or maybe now in 8CY. (or what we usually call it, 5 mins excitement). As days goes by, nobody cares about the show flat anymore. Even mosquitoes and flies don't even want to patronize. I'm not sure if this kinda of scenario happens, does it mean that it will be very difficult for subsale to take place or probably took very very long to happen since there are still remaining units left that you can buy direct from developer instead of paying more in secondary market. However, even if some units are still available, will the buyers dare to buy? My point is, if it's a non sell out project, psychologically, would it affects buyers' decision ultimately?

So my assumption is, buyers will definitely hope their money are vested in a sell out project and only that, sub sale can then happen. (some might disagree but I'm arguing based on the simplest logic which you might think is shallow) if a development is still not sell out for many years, wld it be very worrisome for those who already vested in it?
In developers' point of view, if they understand such psychological aspect of buyers, would they still want to take Such a big risk to bid some ulu suburb areas that ends up building more than 600 units? Wouldn't it be better off for them to bid and build a smaller development such that it will be a win win situation for both buyers and developer?

[lifeablast]

Nowadays when a new project is launched, the first week is always packed with pple. This scenario happens in Projects like gold, isle, nv, minton, CR or maybe now in 8CY. (or what we usually call it, 5 mins excitement). As days goes by, nobody cares about the show flat anymore. Even mosquitoes and flies don't even want to patronize. I'm not sure if this kinda of scenario happens, does it mean that it will be very difficult for subsale to take place or probably took very very long to happen since there are still remaining units left that you can buy direct from developer instead of paying more in secondary market. However, even if some units are still available, will the buyers dare to buy? My point is, if it's a non sell out project, psychologically, would it affects buyers' decision ultimately?

So my assumption is, buyers will definitely hope their money are vested in a sell out project and only that, sub sale can then happen. (some might disagree but I'm arguing based on the simplest logic which you might think is shallow) if a development is still not sell out for many years, wld it be very worrisome for those who already vested in it?
In developers' point of view, if they understand such psychological aspect of buyers, would they still want to take Such a big risk to bid some ulu suburb areas that ends up building more than 600 units? Wouldn't it be better off for them to bid and build a smaller development such that it will be a win win situation for both buyers and developer?

I am worried because (1) i did not do my due dilligence to understand how to invest in property for rental/re-sell (2) this is the first time I invested in property and i was just looking at the price when signing my cheque away (3) i only realised the full extent of the cooling measures after i put down the booking fees. while at show flat i thought it only affected if sell by 1st year, as agent only inform the 16% first year only. i did not do my homework before hand on this (4) i'm afraid i cannot sell it by 5th year or even more years down the road with competition from estuary etc and also if there's still unit available from developer as you have mentioned. furthermore my unit is with the 'cool' fins.

I am stressed and worried ever since I put the booking fee . For the past 5 days I've been reading this forum to increase my knowledge. Could I just check what are the charges involve if to sell at 5th year onwards? My understanding is :
- 2% agent fees
- how much would the legal fees be? does this include the works to transfer the title?
- is there still stamp duty required to be paid?
- any other charges?

Thanks all.

[kingkong1984]

U can dun exercise your option and lose only a small fraction of the deposit. Check exit options with lawyers fast.

All sell out projects means less maiintenance fees. 595/600 is much better than 350/600. Go for share value count too.

Same scenario, share value for 350 units count be 350 x 7 x 2 only versus 350 x 7 x 18. In that context, expect higher fees. Buy only for self stay purposes and hope it is not a graveyard.

[Dark Knight]

I am worried because (1) i did not do my due dilligence to understand how to invest in property for rental/re-sell (2) this is the first time I invested in property and i was just looking at the price when signing my cheque away (3) i only realised the full extent of the cooling measures after i put down the booking fees. while at show flat i thought it only affected if sell by 1st year, as agent only inform the 16% first year only. i did not do my homework before hand on this (4) i'm afraid i cannot sell it by 5th year or even more years down the road with competition from estuary etc and also if there's still unit available from developer as you have mentioned. furthermore my unit is with the 'cool' fins.

I am stressed and worried ever since I put the booking fee . For the past 5 days I've been reading this forum to increase my knowledge. Could I just check what are the charges involve if to sell at 5th year onwards? My understanding is :
- 2% agent fees
- how much would the legal fees be? does this include the works to transfer the title?
- is there still stamp duty required to be paid?
- any other charges?

Thanks all.

No worries and no need to regret. Disagree also with not exercising to forfeit 1% option fees as one forumer suggested.

Property market is cyclical. Why do you want to sell? Selling means you lose the stamp duties paid not to mention the additional SSD cooling measures by govt. The future also depends on whether you believe in the Singapore Story painted by the PAP. If so, then property prices will go up in the long term.

Renting the unit out is no problem de....it depends ultimately on the rate you put on offer.

The key to property purchase is holding power. I think the prices on offer for this project are reasonable based on the location and current market sentiment. No problem reselling from a long term perspective.

[moomooteo]

U can dun exercise your option and lose only a small fraction of the deposit. Check exit options with lawyers fast.

All sell out projects means less maiintenance fees. 595/600 is much better than 350/600. Go for share value count too.

Same scenario, share value for 350 units count be 350 x 7 x 2 only versus 350 x 7 x 18. In that context, expect higher fees. Buy only for self stay purposes and hope it is not a graveyard.

Wrong! All unsold units after TOP will have their maintance fee paid by developer.

Secondly, forfeit 25% of the 5% downpayment, meaning U lose 1.25% not 1% of the purchase price for not exercising the option.

Thirdly, usually agent comm is 1%, not 2%.

Legal fee is cheap comparatively, at less than $3000, for the whole transaction.

[Montaigne]

But if opposition take over the GRC, only depreciation all the way. PAP promise appreciation, opposition wants price crash.

No worries and no need to regret. Disagree also with not exercising to forfeit 1% option fees as one forumer suggested.

Property market is cyclical. Why do you want to sell? Selling means you lose the stamp duties paid not to mention the additional SSD cooling measures by govt. The future also depends on whether you believe in the Singapore Story painted by the PAP. If so, then property prices will go up in the long term.

Renting the unit out is no problem de....it depends ultimately on the rate you put on offer.

The key to property purchase is holding power. I think the prices on offer for this project are reasonable based on the location and current market sentiment. No problem reselling from a long term perspective.

[devilplate]

But if opposition take over the GRC, only depreciation all the way. PAP promise appreciation, opposition wants price crash.

lose 1-2 GRC so serious meh? not unless they gain more den half the seats

[devilplate]

Wrong! All unsold units after TOP will have their maintance fee paid by developer.

Secondly, forfeit 25% of the 5% downpayment, meaning U lose 1.25% not 1% of the purchase price for not exercising the option.

Thirdly, usually agent comm is 1%, not 2%.

Legal fee is cheap comparatively, at less than $3000, for the whole transaction.

u r right except tat usually agt fee is 1 to 2%....up to u to negotiate and if ur agt accept 1% readily, den dun expect he/she to fight a gd price for u (one way to test whether the agt got gd negotiation skills anot)

nowadays legal fees aso vy competitive oredi.....without bank loan will be $2k....with bank loan add another $500 stamp fee

[chiaberry]

But if opposition take over the GRC, only depreciation all the way. PAP promise appreciation, opposition wants price crash.

Depreciate den can buy cheaper (I thought ppl are waiting for px to drop in order to purchase). Unlikely for Opposition to stay in power beyond one term even if they win this GRC this time round. By the next election, SSD period will be over liao. So got chance to make profit after TOP.

[devilplate]

I am stressed and worried ever since I put the booking fee . For the past 5 days I've been reading this forum to increase my knowledge. Could I just check what are the charges involve if to sell at 5th year onwards? My understanding is :
- 2% agent fees
- how much would the legal fees be? does this include the works to transfer the title?
- is there still stamp duty required to be paid?
- any other charges?

Thanks all.

let say u sell after 4th yr:
1) 1-2% agt fees
2)2k to 2.5k legal fees
3)bank loan cancellation fees for the undisburse loan amount if any & penalty if u take up a lock-in package
4)clawback on ur legal fees/valuation fees etc if its still within the 1st 3 yrs from ur 1st loan disbursement date

if u do not have much spare cash left after paying the downpayment+3% buyer stamp duty, den u may want to consider to forfeit 1/4 of ur 5% booking fee before u exercise ur S&P

[devilplate]

Depreciate den can buy cheaper (I thought ppl are waiting for px to drop in order to purchase). Unlikely for Opposition to stay in power beyond one term even if they win this GRC this time round. By the next election, SSD period will be over liao. So got chance to make profit after TOP.

there is a diff between price deppreciation vs price correction wor...

its not so easy to regain a country's reputation once its tarnished

[devilplate]

Nowadays when a new project is launched, the first week is always packed with pple. This scenario happens in Projects like gold, isle, nv, minton, CR or maybe now in 8CY. (or what we usually call it, 5 mins excitement). As days goes by, nobody cares about the show flat anymore. Even mosquitoes and flies don't even want to patronize. I'm not sure if this kinda of scenario happens, does it mean that it will be very difficult for subsale to take place or probably took very very long to happen since there are still remaining units left that you can buy direct from developer instead of paying more in secondary market. However, even if some units are still available, will the buyers dare to buy? My point is, if it's a non sell out project, psychologically, would it affects buyers' decision ultimately?

So my assumption is, buyers will definitely hope their money are vested in a sell out project and only that, sub sale can then happen. (some might disagree but I'm arguing based on the simplest logic which you might think is shallow) if a development is still not sell out for many years, wld it be very worrisome for those who already vested in it?
In developers' point of view, if they understand such psychological aspect of buyers, would they still want to take Such a big risk to bid some ulu suburb areas that ends up building more than 600 units? Wouldn't it be better off for them to bid and build a smaller development such that it will be a win win situation for both buyers and developer?

not always the case lor...alot of factors at play

give u an example....lakeshore was initially launched at 4xxpsf...upon TOP still got many units from developer unsold but they r selling at 7xxpsf and subsale about 550-650psf at the same time

y u worry about developer? do u noe capland and FEO for eg...how much cash/reserves they haf meh? holding power lor

buy from GLS got its PROs.....

1)faster turn around time den buying from enbloc....can launched within 6mths whereas enbloc deals usually take 1yr for them to launch(longer process)

2)no DC charges and no lease top-up charges if any

[DC33_2008]

Not sure if this will come true. Opp candidates also own properties. The impact may be more on public housing than private housing with the MUP and IUP. I remember when CST took over Potong Pasir, I heard my parents said that their friends staying in sennett estate had rubbish not thrown for a few days as there are no garbage collectors. There is not much MUP in private estate except for some minor upgrading projects.

But if opposition take over the GRC, only depreciation all the way. PAP promise appreciation, opposition wants price crash.

[chiaberry]

there is a diff between price deppreciation vs price correction wor...

its not so easy to regain a country's reputation once its tarnished

Got a lot of people interested in voting Opposition. But not sure when the crunch comes whether they will do it. Very unlikely the Opposition will win so many seats that it will "tarnish" the reputation of the country. PAP will still be in charge overall. Not so easy to overthrow them despite all the talk and posturing going on. They have the $$$ and hold the purse strings. Sad to say $$$$$ talks by itself.

[devilplate]

Not sure if this will come true. Opp candidates also own properties. The impact may be more on public housing than private housing with the MUP and IUP. I remember when CST took over Potong Pasir, I heard my parents said that their friends staying in sennett estate had rubbish not thrown for a few days as there are no garbage collectors. There is not much MUP in private estate except for some minor upgrading projects.

quite true....

condos in potong pasir still outperformed den many other areas

only their HDB prices r depressed

[ysyap]

quite true....

condos in potong pasir still outperformed den many other areas

only their HDB prices r depressed

Their HDB prices still decent... only their physical state and looks are depressing!

[lifeablast]

THANK YOU to all, for your input and advise. I really appreciate it. I'm glad that I've found this forum.

[lifeablast]

let say u sell after 4th yr:
1) 1-2% agt fees
2)2k to 2.5k legal fees
3)bank loan cancellation fees for the undisburse loan amount if any & penalty if u take up a lock-in package
4)clawback on ur legal fees/valuation fees etc if its still within the 1st 3 yrs from ur 1st loan disbursement date

if u do not have much spare cash left after paying the downpayment+3% buyer stamp duty, den u may want to consider to forfeit 1/4 of ur 5% booking fee before u exercise ur S&P

Thanks devilplate, does it mean that there is no more stamp duty after 4th year?

[azeoprop]

http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/page04.aspx?id=10212

Yeap, if you sell on the 5th year, no seller stamp duty.

No worries, just make sure you manage your finances so that you will not be forced to sell during a downturn event. Eventually it will go higher.

Your buyer's remorse will eventually go away.

[solsys]

Just spoken to my agent, 8 Courtyards sale reaching or reached 400units out of 621 units.

[lifeablast]

http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/page04.aspx?id=10212

Yeap, if you sell on the 5th year, no seller stamp duty.

No worries, just make sure you manage your finances so that you will not be forced to sell during a downturn event. Eventually it will go higher.

Your buyer's remorse will eventually go away.

Thanks azeoprop.

[devilplate]

Just spoken to my agent, 8 Courtyards sale reaching or reached 400units out of 621 units.

tats fantastic sales response

[solsys]

Yes, quite a feat considering time from official launch is less than one week.

[Montaigne]

lose 1-2 GRC so serious meh? not unless they gain more den half the seats

Imagine for the next 5 years, the town totally no upgrading and like old ghost town. how to appreciate?

[mantrix]

Imagine for the next 5 years, the town totally no upgrading and like old ghost town. how to appreciate?

Plans to transform yishun central already underway leh what toking you

[kingkong1984]

Wrong! All unsold units after TOP will have their maintance fee paid by developer.

Secondly, forfeit 25% of the 5% downpayment, meaning U lose 1.25% not 1% of the purchase price for not exercising the option.

Thirdly, usually agent comm is 1%, not 2%.

Legal fee is cheap comparatively, at less than $3000, for the whole transaction.

ok, you are right.

Did I mention 2%?

Anyway this project is the cheapest in Singapore now. No shark fin to be expected as they have been slashed and attached to the exterior walls.

I never want a unit with fins. Like a fish.

[kingkong1984]

The developer is required to pay maintenance charges for all unsold
units as well as sold units that are not handed over to its purchasers when the maintenance fund is established.

However, the developer is given a three-month grace period from issue of the Temporary Occupation Permit (TOP) before making contributions for unsold units and sold units not handed over.

http://www.bca.gov.sg/BMSM/others/strata_living.pdf

[Xan]

I am worried because (1) i did not do my due dilligence to understand how to invest in property for rental/re-sell (2) this is the first time I invested in property and i was just looking at the price when signing my cheque away (3) i only realised the full extent of the cooling measures after i put down the booking fees. while at show flat i thought it only affected if sell by 1st year, as agent only inform the 16% first year only. i did not do my homework before hand on this (4) i'm afraid i cannot sell it by 5th year or even more years down the road with competition from estuary etc and also if there's still unit available from developer as you have mentioned. furthermore my unit is with the 'cool' fins.

I am stressed and worried ever since I put the booking fee . For the past 5 days I've been reading this forum to increase my knowledge. Could I just check what are the charges involve if to sell at 5th year onwards? My understanding is :
- 2% agent fees
- how much would the legal fees be? does this include the works to transfer the title?
- is there still stamp duty required to be paid?
- any other charges?

Thanks all.

Understand your worries. I usually encourage pple to start the first move, dont quite like the waiting game in property investment as well. Trust me, how many first time buyers did their due diligence to study the transact price of all condos, rental yield or even potential and profit margin of each development. I only did all these studies after vested in my first property and follow by 2nd. More like on the job training. However, you must still understand the full context of the cooling measures before you commit. This will hv great impact in your decision making in the near future and also provides u a self check to see whether you will have the holding power. Usually property investors will still be the ultimate winner compared to those pple who put their money in the bank, but that's provided you have holding power. 4 years SSD impacts everyone here. Not everyone can wait that long as many things can happen.
I also agree 8CY is one of the cheapest in Singapore, this is undisputed, u can't hardly find any that come close to it. In long term, it will still appreciate, but provided you can wait. If you can't wait, you will loss the game. This is property investment.
But if you are looking at the upsides of 8CY and hoping it can occur within 4 years to cover the SSD, bank penalties, lawyer fee, agent fees etc, I tell you, the chances are very slim. Previous Estuary investors/buyers are in different situation and context compared to those who buy CR and 8CY becoz they are not binded by the 4 years SSD. Another key factor I learn in property investment is timing, which is always the most critical part.

With the new cooling measures that aims to prevent bubbles and to caution singaporean not to over commit, I still cannot see how the cooling measures had served us well and protects our interest. Would there be cases when a middle income family earns slightly less than 10k (husband income 6.5k and wife income 3k)and wanted to buy an affordable 2-3 bedder condo in a suburb area, cost ard 850k, taking up 80% loan.(which is ard 700k loan) when suddenly the husband got retrenched when project is nearing TOP. In such case, he cannot afford to pay off the loan but has to sell his property at a loss becoz profit can't cover SSD.
I advocate the old saying "no venture no gain", but at calculated risk.
It is not about the price, it's about the buyers' capacity and timing.

[Xan]

not always the case lor...alot of factors at play

give u an example....lakeshore was initially launched at 4xxpsf...upon TOP still got many units from developer unsold but they r selling at 7xxpsf and subsale about 550-650psf at the same time

y u worry about developer? do u noe capland and FEO for eg...how much cash/reserves they haf meh? holding power lor

buy from GLS got its PROs.....

1)faster turn around time den buying from enbloc....can launched within 6mths whereas enbloc deals usually take 1yr for them to launch(longer process)

2)no DC charges and no lease top-up charges if any

You damn Lao jiao, the time when I pay special attention to lakeshore is when it's already selling 720 psf. I didn't know it was launched at 400 ++ psf before.
720psf turns me off at that time in 2006 and decided to go for something ard 500psf with better location, 1 min walk to mrt and better amenities.

[kingkong1984]

Different time, different economy. Many e.g.s icon, sail etc all big winners.

Foe, quite safe as long as u can hold 2 years and 4 years with SSD.

Share your Psf pls