If u were KBW what policy would you implement...

[flagship74]

KBW Never sleep!

[howgozit]

Agree with all the points and I am not advocating anything. Just for discussion sake.

Singapore's private property is not entirely a free market. For example there are restrictions on foreign ownership of landed properties or of certain non-landed properties below a certain building height.

Basically all countries have some sort of restrictions on foreign ownership. It varies in the breadth and depth of the restrictions.

[linchong84]

you are right, and we should not restrict foreigners from buying landed properties as well. when property the bubble burst and the share price of singapore financial institutions collapse, I dont think our government should do anything either. Just let market forces play itself out. if local financial institutions fail or S$ collapse, no need to worry, just ask our President to allow GIC to cash out $100b from our reserves to rescue the banks.

GIC lost so much billions just couple of years ago.. Maybe coffers empty liao.. that's why they selling land eagerly to earn back..

[Jadey]

GIC lost so much billions just couple of years ago.. Maybe coffers empty liao.. that's why they selling land eagerly to earn back..

you should cast your presidential vote wisely.

[desquire]

. teddybear[/b]]On 1 hand they are in control of HDB flats via MND (they can control supply via building HDB flats and they can control demand via rules and regulations they have absolute control in changing) and they promise to solve the complaint about run-away HDB flats prices. On the other hand the HDB flats prices are running away much faster than private properties which is slowing down by so much vs the increasing by so much for the HDB flats' prices? Either they are incompentent or they are not doing what they said they want to do! They can slap 4yrs 16% SSD on private properties and they can't do the same for HDB flats via simiar draconian measures? Simple lah, let me give them some suggestions:
1) Nobody is allowed to simultaneous own HDB flat and private properties. (They can either keep private or keep HDB).
2) 10 years MOP. Those who sell back to HDB before 10 years MOP got slapped with 16% SSD.
3) HDB flats for own stay only, cannot rent out!

I share the same sentiments as you bro. Although I must admit that this will not go down very well with fellow people but it will definitely stable things on the other side.

[teddybear]

True isn't it? Why bail out the banks & those fat cats using tax payers' money?
S$ collapse? That is why change paper money into hard assets like properties is better

you are right, and we should not restrict foreigners from buying landed properties as well. when property the bubble burst and the share price of singapore financial institutions collapse, I dont think our government should do anything either. Just let market forces play itself out. if local financial institutions fail or S$ collapse, no need to worry, just ask our President to allow GIC to cash out $100b from our reserves to rescue the banks.

[ecimbew]

Yes....its time to draw a clearer line between singaporeans and pr

Many pr bot hdb resale flat n rent out rooms immediately...

Exactly! I happen to know some PR who bought an HDB arm flat at Holland V and rented it out to local couple for $2200 per month. Anyway, this PR is planning to sell it away now because they are leaving Singapore.

[flxcat]

Exactly! I happen to know some PR who bought an HDB arm flat at Holland V and rented it out to local couple for $2200 per month. Anyway, this PR is planning to sell it away now because they are leaving Singapore.

Personally I know of PRs already sold their HDB flat and keeping the gains of $200k and $300k and renting temporarily.
The approach is to wait for condo price dip and move into pte after using HDB as stepping stone.
Once they are forced to take up citizenship,
they can have the option to move back to
their own country and keep the pte ppty for
either rental or capital appreciation.
Well we can't blame them as they are definitely more hungry then sporeans and work hard on what they want instead of complaining.

[striker278]

1) PR who buy HDB cannot rent out any room/unit no matter what. PR must stay in HDB but allow to buy private pty after MOP.

2) Developer must sell all units by TOP. Any units sold after TOP, develop will be levy a Developer Stamp Duty. 1st year 4%, 2nd year 8%, 3rd year 12%, 4th year 16%, and so on....

3) All 1st timer allowed to buy public housing direct from HDB, regardless of household income. Of course, buyers cannot own private pty and subject to MOP rules. With this rule, there is no need to increase household income ceiling.

4) Landed property strictly for Singaporean only. PR cannot buy, not even one.

All other policies remind the same for now.

[ysyap]

GIC lost so much billions just couple of years ago.. Maybe coffers empty liao.. that's why they selling land eagerly to earn back..

Don't worry bro. Singapore's reserve is in the trillions figure... won't be empty for the next 40 years...

[ysyap]

Exactly! I happen to know some PR who bought an HDB arm flat at Holland V and rented it out to local couple for $2200 per month. Anyway, this PR is planning to sell it away now because they are leaving Singapore.

Earn enough from Singaporeans through legal Singapore's laws and taking earnings to go home liao...

[howgozit]

Originally Posted by teddybear
Agreed on this.
However, HDB is not free market since new units are reserved for citizens only.
Private properties market should be left to market forces and Govt should not interfere and create artificial prices. This should be similar to the stock market which is left to market forces. Otherwise they should intervene when stock market index STI go up to much or drop too much

you are right, and we should not restrict foreigners from buying landed properties as well. when property the bubble burst and the share price of singapore financial institutions collapse, I dont think our government should do anything either. Just let market forces play itself out. if local financial institutions fail or S$ collapse, no need to worry, just ask our President to allow GIC to cash out $100b from our reserves to rescue the banks.

Hi Jadey,

Wrt landed properties, I have to disagree. Btw, I don't think teddybear was referring to landed properties.

I feel it is correct that landed property should have restrictions. Singapore is just too small, you can let foreigners buy space in the sky but not land.

This well considered policy is a sacred cow that has served us well and should not be slaughtered in the name of free market. Cheers!

[devilplate]

I feel it is correct that landed property should have restrictions. Singapore is just too small, you can let foreigners buy space in the sky but not land.

This well considered policy is a sacred cow that has served us well and should not be slaughtered in the name of free market. Cheers!

absolutely,
FH/999 landed shd only remain as an 'priviledge' for citizens

i am disgusted to find out tat PR can actually get the approval for landed quite easily .....shdnt allow PR to buy at all in the first place

we serve army for? protect our family and LAND rite?

[ysyap]

absolutely,
FH/999 landed shd only remain as an 'priviledge' for citizens

i am disgusted to find out tat PR can actually get the approval for landed quite easily .....shdnt allow PR to buy at all in the first place

we serve army for? protect our family and LAND rite?

Yes to protect our land for non citizens to utilize and make profits!

Training to be soldiers, fight for our land. Once in our lives, two years of our time. Have you ever wondered, why this must be? Coz we love our land, we want it to be free to be free yeah! Free for foreigners to exploit it!!!

[Wild Falcon]

PR should not be allowed to purchase HDB. KBW already release figures that says PR bought like 20% of our resale HDB right? So barring PR from buying HDB will not crash the market; it will just take out 20% of the excess demand which will ensure prices are stable. In any case, these "talents" should earn enough to buy or rent private unsubsidised flats.

[ysyap]

PR should not be allowed to purchase HDB. KBW already release figures that says PR bought like 20% of our resale HDB right? So barring PR from buying HDB will not crash the market; it will just take out 20% of the excess demand which will ensure prices are stable. In any case, these "talents" should earn enough to buy or rent private unsubsidised flats.

I know of PRs who do not earn that much and may not want to rent from private houses. Then again its a matter of choice, I guess.

[devilplate]

I know of PRs who do not earn that much and may not want to rent from private houses. Then again its a matter of choice, I guess.

so either they balek kampong or take up citizenship

[teddybear]

Agreed that landed should be reserved for citizens only. I am disgusted to hear that URA actually approve PRs to buy landed!
Now you sillyporeans serve army & fight to protect land for foreigners? (to me, PRs are also foreigners regardless of how they spin it).

absolutely,
FH/999 landed shd only remain as an 'priviledge' for citizens

i am disgusted to find out tat PR can actually get the approval for landed quite easily .....shdnt allow PR to buy at all in the first place

we serve army for? protect our family and LAND rite?

[Jadey]

Agreed that landed should be reserved for citizens only. I am disgusted to hear that URA actually approve PRs to buy landed!
Now you sillyporeans serve army & fight to protect land for foreigners? (to me, PRs are also foreigners regardless of how they spin it).

If you want to promote free market in Singapore, why stop at landed property?

[teddybear]

We need to have free market but we also need to have protected ones. We need to protect those that includes basic necessity such as basic roof over heads of citizens (e.g. cheap & basic vanilla HDB flats).
We need to protect raw land and land on very low rise building because they are too precious to be owned by foreigners!
We allow foreigners to buy high-rise condo (those more than 5 storeys high) because we are selling them air space!
If land still not enough, en-bloc the 30 storeys condos and build 60 storeys condos!

Otherwise why govt reserve the jobs of taxi drivers for citizens only? Otherwise why control the currency via MAS intervention?
Otherwise why reserve landed and landed properties to be owned by citizens only and even PRs must seek special approval?
Otherwise why reserve selling of new HDB flats to citizens only?

All the above are current govt policies and they are all welcome & supported by citizens. However, in recent few years, things have deviated and citizens are angry:
1) so many PRs bidding up resale HDB flats prices when they could have afford private and avoid pushing up resale HDB flats by so much via so high COV.
2) URA approves many PRs to buy landed properties!
3) What DBSS? Trying to HDB flats at super premium? They should be selling plain vanilla but CHEAP HDB flats to citizens who need them!
4) Allow lower-income service sector foreign workers to convert to citizens and fight for the limited supply of new HDB flats!

If you want to promote free market in Singapore, why stop at landed property?

[Jadey]

We need to have free market but we also need to have protected ones. We need to protect those that includes basic necessity such as basic roof over heads of citizens (e.g. cheap & basic vanilla HDB flats).
We need to protect raw land and land on very low rise building because they are too precious to be owned by foreigners!
We allow foreigners to buy high-rise condo (those more than 5 storeys high) because we are selling them air space!
If land still not enough, en-bloc the 30 storeys condos and build 60 storeys condos!

Kind of funny that you are worried about foreigners buying landed properties while you do not mention anything about PR buying HDB flats.

I think the underlying reason is more because of your personal self interest than anything else. e.g. you want free market in strata titled properties to boost your investment, but you want landed house to remain affordable so that you could own one in future.

[devilplate]

If you want to promote free market in Singapore, why stop at landed property?

Smply bcoz landed is not strata titled....owner hold land title

Tats a big big difference

However, i m perfectly alrite for them to buy 99lh landed

[devilplate]

Kind of funny that you are worried about foreigners buying landed properties while you do not mention anything about PR buying HDB flats.

I think the underlying reason is more because of your personal self interest than anything else. e.g. you want free market in strata titled properties to boost your investment, but you want landed house to remain affordable so that you could own one in future.

Teddy mentioned abt banning pr from buying resale flats la....u goto read earlier posts

[ysyap]

Smply bcoz landed is not strata titled....owner hold land title

Tats a big big difference

However, i m perfectly alrite for them to buy 99lh landed

Cannot allow them to buy landed at all, whether 99lh, 999lh or freehold. Its far too precious to let foreigners hold land titles... Singapore's land is far too precious!

[SpinCity]

Smply bcoz landed is not strata titled....owner hold land title

Tats a big big difference

However, i m perfectly alrite for them to buy 99lh landed

Actually, whether landed or not, the only thing associated with the ownership that can be taken away from this island is a piece of paper called "land title", isn't it

[howgozit]

Foreign Ownership of Properties
Since 1973, the Singapore Government has imposed restrictions on foreign ownership of private residential property in Singapore. Such ownership is governed by the Residential Property Act (the Act).

The Act seeks to strike a balance between giving Singaporeans a stake in the country by being able to buy and own residential properties at affordable prices, while attracting foreign talent by allowing permanent residents, foreign companies and limited liability partnerships that make an economic contribution to Singapore to purchase such properties for their occupation.

The Land Dealings (Approval) Unit administers the provisions of the Act and its rules by:

• processing applications from foreign persons for approval to acquire or retain restricted residential property;
• issuing clearance certificates to Singapore companies, limited liability partnerships and societies;
• prosecuting offences under the Act; and
• dealing with general enquiries relating to the operation of the Act.

Under the Act, a foreign person means any person who is not any of the following:

• Singapore citizen;
• Singapore company;
• Singapore limited liability partnership; or
• Singapore society.

What is restricted residential property under the Residential Property Act
A foreign person cannot acquire or purchase restricted residential property unless he obtains the prior approval of the Minister for Law. Such property includes:

1. vacant residential land;
2. landed property [i.e detached house, semi-detached house, terrace house (including linked house or townhouse)]; and
3. landed property in strata developments which are not approved condominium developments under the Planning Act.

[kingkong1984]

yes, imagine rich nation buy up FH landed and keep them empty. It will be as good as shrinking the usable land in Singapore.

[howgozit]

Kind of funny that you are worried about foreigners buying landed properties while you do not mention anything about PR buying HDB flats.

I think the underlying reason is more because of your personal self interest than anything else. e.g. you want free market in strata titled properties to boost your investment, but you want landed house to remain affordable so that you could own one in future.

I think its more a sovereignty issue. Even land-excess liberal western countries have policies to restrict foreign ownership.

Btw, for all you know, maybe teddybear already owns one (or several) landed properties and actually stands to gain more from the liberisation of the rules? and he is willing to forgo all that gain to maintain the sanctity of landed properties in Singapore.

[fclim]

Kalpana RashiwalaSat, Jul 14, 2007
The Business Times More foreigners apply to buy landed homes (SINGAPORE) The number of applications by foreigners (including permanent residents) seeking approval from the government to buy landed properties in Singapore rose 30 per cent in 2006 against the preceding year, according to Singapore Land Authority.
'This was possibly due to the strong economy, a favourable property market and interest in Sentosa Cove,' an SLA spokeswoman said.
Foreigners including PRs face restrictions in buying landed properties in Singapore and need prior approval from the authorities before they can purchase such properties. Foreigners have to be PRs before they can receive permission to buy landed homes on mainland Singapore; Sentosa Cove is the only location where foreigners who are not PRs are allowed to purchase landed property.
Apart from an applicant's PR status, sanction to buy landed property depends on his qualifications and economic contributions to Singapore, SLA's spokeswoman stressed.
SLA declined to say how many applications were made by foreigners/PRs to buy landed property, and how many were approved.
However, based on DTZ Debenham Tie Leung's analysis of caveats captured by the Urban Redevelopment Authority's Realis database, foreigners including PRs bought 93 landed homes or 8.4 per cent of the total 1,108 landed homes transacted in Q1 2007, covering both primary and secondary markets, as well as completed and uncompleted properties.
These figures are higher than those for Q1 2006, when foreigners including PRs bought 43 landed homes, or 6.1 per cent of the total 706 landed homes that were transacted. During Q2 1996, at the height of the 1990s property bull run, PRs/foreigners purchased 31 landed homes, or 2.6 per cent of the total 1,188 landed homes that changed hands during the period.
DTZ's analysis showed that for Q1 this year, PRs bought 86 landed homes while non-PR foreigners purchased seven such homes. The most popular landed homes among foreigners as a whole were terrace houses (45 units), followed by semi-detached (26 units) and detached houses (22 units).
Private apartments/condos - a class of properties where there are no restrictions on purchases by foreigners/PRs (unless they want to buy up an entire development) - made up the majority of private homes bought by foreigners in Q1 this year. In all, foreigners/PRs bought 2,008 non-landed private homes, accounting for 30.3 per cent of the total condos/apartments bought in the period.
In Q1 this year, foreigners/PRs bought 27.2 per cent of the overall 7,731 private homes (comprising both landed and non-landed homes) that changed hands. This share is almost double their 14.1 per cent share back in Q2 1996, when foreigners/PRs purchased 975 of the total 6,932 private residential properties transacted.
DTZ executive director Ong Choon Fah said the growing foreign buying of landed homes in Singapore reflects that many foreigners/PRs are raising their families here.
'They may find that condos are too small. Very often they buy landed homes in locations close to the foreign/international schools that their children attend, for instance, in Lorong Chuan, where the Australian International School is located, and in the West Coast near the Japanese School,' she added.
'Many of these foreigners and PRs say Singapore is a very 'liveable' place. If they believe in the future of Asia, they'd want to raise their families in Asia, and Singapore is a good location, from which they can get exposure to China and India because of our connectivity,' she added.
Since 1973, foreigners (including PRs) have been prohibited from buying landed property without prior government approval. All would-be buyers must seek permission from the Land Dealings (Approval) Unit under the SLA. Typically, it takes about four weeks for approval to be granted, but in the upscale waterfront locale of Sentosa Cove, the time has been fast-tracked to less than 48 hours.
Whether on mainland Singapore or Sentosa Cove, foreigners including PRs can at any one time own only one landed home in Singapore and must occupy it themselves rather than rent it out.
However, being a PR does not automatically mean one's application to buy landed property will be approved. For instance, if the PR does not have the recognised qualifications or expertise/working experience required by Singapore or has not made any investment in the type of industry/service sector being promoted in Singapore, the application may be turned down. Even PRs who have set up businesses promoted by Singapore may find their applications rejected if their company's paid-up capital and turnover do not meet certain requirements.
var newwindow; function poptastic(url) { newwindow=window.open(url,'name','height=530,width=800'); if (window.focus) {newwindow.focus()} }

[ysyap]

This law has been around since 1973? Its been that long! Isn't it time for some review or at least debate?