MRT changing OCR and CCR concept permanently?

[Eldenfirefly]

In some of the cities like Sydney and Hong Kong, you also see a trend where exclusivity may mean a sea view, or on a mountain, and not necessarily central region. The super rich can afford a yatche or even a helicopter!

It may well happen here in Singapore as well. Like Sentosa cove, or some exclusive rare to get view or address. It really up to the planners.

If they choose to zone and redevelop say Puala Ubin as an island which will be developed exclusively as a rich man's playground like how Dhubai did it. They can. It can have a specialised direct MRT line and highway going there. A fancy bridge. Each plot of land there maybe priced at 3000 psf or more. Only 100 landed freehold available, so super excluvie. Each with their own mooring for a yatche, and each with a carpark big enough for 10 cars, etc etc.

Exclusivity does not have to always mean central region. Exclusive just means only a few can afford or be lucky enough to get that area's address.

[SpinCity]

In some of the cities like Sydney and Hong Kong, you also see a trend where exclusivity may mean a sea view, or on a mountain, and not necessarily central region. The super rich can afford a yatche or even a helicopter!

It may well happen here in Singapore as well. Like Sentosa cove, or some exclusive rare to get view or address. It really up to the planners.

If they choose to zone and redevelop say Puala Ubin as an island which will be developed exclusively as a rich man's playground like how Dhubai did it. They can. It can have a specialised direct MRT line and highway going there. A fancy bridge. Each plot of land there maybe priced at 3000 psf or more. Only 100 landed freehold available, so super excluvie. Each with their own mooring for a yatche, and each with a carpark big enough for 10 cars, etc etc.

Exclusivity does not have to always mean central region. Exclusive just means only a few can afford or be lucky enough to get that area's address.

Well, right now exclusivity means D9/10/11, CBD, and Sentosa, and to some extent east coast, the exclusivity is not built solely on the accessibility or convenience: there are just much more to it
new MRT lines will definitely increase the value of properties within walkable distance to the new stations, but this convenience premium is rather small compared to the gap between the "prime CCR" and OCR
No need to look far but just the price gap between TPY and Newton/Novena which is only one or two MRT station apart, but the price difference is significant
In short, MRT can improve the accessibility and livability, but it can never create the "exclusivity" which is the key ingredient of prime area

[CCR]

I kinda disagree with the London example. There's a lot more contral planning and long term planning by the government here. In a country like UK, for London, not as much because politics get in the way.

If you are a good central planner, you want to spread out the density a lot more. You also want to make things far more connected because you don't want over crowding all in the central area.

Leave all that to the private sector, and all the businesses and population will automatically grativate towards the centre and just make it super crowded. Leave it to the politicans only, and you get the same thing (because the companies there can pay the most), plus some special interest groups on top of that.

So, the outlying areas automatically get the least funding and hence the least
amount of infrastructure built up.

Singapore has far more central planning. We already have circle line being done even before these other lines. Cities like Melbourne actually discontinued their equivalent circle lines because the traffic didn't justify the expense. But Singapore doesn't just build the MRT infrastructure, it also uses its HDB
policies, release of new land to ensure that other non-city centres are formed.

Tampines 20 years ago was a backwater nothing. Tampines today is a bustling self contained newtown all by itself. So, because of this kind of difference, I
think the prices will be a lot closer. Just my 2 cents.

Try and google the London tube, hong kong mtr and Tokyo JR then you compared it with our MRT lines and you will know what Teddy and jadey is talking about.... Their rail lines is so many more times better than ours and when you are convinced that these three cities have more dense rail lines than us, then go compare their CCR and OCR prices and you will find the conclusion yourself.... Cheers

[stalingrad]

listen these garbage uttered by these ignorant people. if they are right, then why have prices in CCR not moved in the last 5 years, but prices in OCR have doubled? evidence speak volumes about their ignorance.

haha, morons pretend to be guruses.

[CCR]

He appeared again..... Run run!!!!

[azeoprop]

Actually people pay pricy premium to be near mrt only happened recently. E.g. Last time developer sales of casa merah, woodsville 28, caspian, mi casa, one leicester, kovan twins all don't have such premiums leh.

[teddybear]

Your tortoise in the well is it?
15 years ago when London zone 1 property prices are >3x of Zone 4, people say stupid to buy in zone 1, sure fall one with better train connectivities, public transport etc. Gap sure narrow & they seem to be right at that particulat time! some more more parking spaces for park & ride & super cheap some more, who need to live in zone 1 CCR? 15 years later zone 1 prices become 6x of zone 4!

Just like stock prices, the gap just narrow temporarily to suck in all these idiots lured by the govt policies that make buying new launch on govt sold land more attractive (coffee shop talks going on). Wait 15 years later & you come back to me I right or wrong?

listen these garbage uttered by these ignorant people. if they are right, then why have prices in CCR not moved in the last 5 years, but prices in OCR have doubled? evidence speak volumes about their ignorance.

haha, morons pretend to be guruses.

[DaytonaSS]

In some of the cities like Sydney and Hong Kong, you also see a trend where exclusivity may mean a sea view, or on a mountain, and not necessarily central region. The super rich can afford a yatche or even a helicopter!

It may well happen here in Singapore as well. Like Sentosa cove, or some exclusive rare to get view or address. It really up to the planners.

If they choose to zone and redevelop say Puala Ubin as an island which will be developed exclusively as a rich man's playground like how Dhubai did it. They can. It can have a specialised direct MRT line and highway going there. A fancy bridge. Each plot of land there maybe priced at 3000 psf or more. Only 100 landed freehold available, so super excluvie. Each with their own mooring for a yatche, and each with a carpark big enough for 10 cars, etc etc.

Exclusivity does not have to always mean central region. Exclusive just means only a few can afford or be lucky enough to get that area's address.

the market already priced in all u have said. central sea view- 3k psf, OCR water view $1100. D10 lush central exclusive greenery view 2000+ psf, hillview $1400(top psf). SR highway view + sound $2000, west coast OCR highway sound + view $1000psf.

wheather it will converge is a simple function of $$$$. If $$$ is not an option, would u stay marina bay water view or u prefer punggol pond view? if u can afford 2.5k psf will u buy punggol or tampiness given its many MRT and many malls or parks or what not or u go for similar but better CCR offerings. if u dont mind, then it will converge lor and OCR will be the best place to stay and price will reach 2k psf soon lor.

1 genius suggest OCR 5 years chong n CCR never move, good lah. in 5 more years we can see newspaper pple sell CCR and upgrade to OCR lor. Qn is simple, do u mind pay 2k psf n stay in example jurong lakeside? if yes then hurray for OCR lor.

[ecimbew]

It boils down to factors like MRT station, proximity to town and workplace, and affordability.

[DaytonaSS]

It boils down to factors like MRT station, proximity to town and workplace, and affordability.

thus in OCR, no MRT = KO!

[DC33_2008]

Looking at the planning of mrt lines, there are many more mrt stations as you go closer to the CBD. If you stay anyway between city fringe and CBD, you can literally take a short walk or take a short bus ride from one line to another line or even more than 2 lines.

[Eldenfirefly]

CCR will always be more expensive than OCR. The question is how much more expensive? I believe the extensive MRT lines which are coming will reduce that gap permanently. It will not close completely, but will at least be closer.

[Jadey]

CCR will always be more expensive than OCR. The question is how much more expensive? I believe the extensive MRT lines which are coming will reduce that gap permanently. It will not close completely, but will at least be closer.

I thought many of the new mrt stations will be located in the RCR and CCR region? Wont that boost the price of the properties around the area?

[Eldenfirefly]

Isn't RCR part of OCR last time?

[Jadey]

Isn't RCR part of OCR last time?

this is the map I use for reference.

http://spring.ura.gov.sg/lad/ore/login/map_ccr.pdf

[Eldenfirefly]

Correct then. So CCR is basically district 9,10,11. Everything else is OCR mah. With circle line, and other lines, the regions near to circle line will get closer to CCR in terms of PSF though the gap will never be completely closed.

[Jadey]

Correct then. So CCR is basically district 9,10,11. Everything else is OCR mah. With circle line, and other lines, the regions near to circle line will get closer to CCR in terms of PSF though the gap will never be completely closed.

The area within the central region boundary lines are all classified as Central Region. Those highlighted area are CCR. OCR is those area outside the central region boundary lines.

[windcar]

Another point all of you have missed out is that alot of this price trend is directly linked to the developers. Most of the units sold are below 2m SGD no matter what the psf is. As land is truly limited in central region, developers are trying for quick bucks in the OCR region, pricing most of their units below 2m. This is because they know that alot of people are be able to 'afford' these units.
The price gaps between new and old launch is too big. And looking at the transaction done, i will guess that >80% of the buyers go for newly TOP or U/C units.

[rattydrama]

Another point all of you have missed out is that alot of this price trend is directly linked to the developers. Most of the units sold are below 2m SGD no matter what the psf is. As land is truly limited in central region, developers are trying for quick bucks in the OCR region, pricing most of their units below 2m. This is because they know that alot of people are be able to 'afford' these units.
The price gaps between new and old launch is too big. And looking at the transaction done, i will guess that >80% of the buyers go for newly TOP or U/C units.

the developer price high for OCR, next bull run for CCR coming? Everyone huat if you have a private now.

Any ppty with 500m to MRT should be good. If there are good amenities and schools, its a plus point. There are many mrt stations but only that many but population may increase. If you have big pockets go get one nearer to town. But if the price is too expensive and rental yield least attractive, generally pple will settle for next best.

[stalingrad]

one of the trends many have missed is that the government is promoting alternative CBDs and businesses are leaving the old CBD. jurong, Tampines, Changi will flourish as more and more businesses move in.

One day, the downtown CBD will be just one of many CBD's, and there is no need for employees of businesses to travel a long way to the old downtown CBD. when that day comes, prices will truly equalize. What we are seeing is just a preview of what future holds for Singapore, an island with no suburbs and equalized property prices.

[rockinsg]

one of the trends many have missed is that the government is promoting alternative CBDs and businesses are leaving the old CBD. jurong, Tampines, Changi will flourish as more and more businesses move in.

One day, the downtown CBD will be just one of many CBD's, and there is no need for employees of businesses to travel a long way to the old downtown CBD. when that day comes, prices will truly equalize. What we are seeing is just a preview of what future holds for Singapore, an island with no suburbs and equalized property prices.

These alternate(fake) CBDs have low earning working..mostly earning 6-10K.. how they gonna afford 2M house..Hell, how they even gonna afford 4-5K rental of these houses ?

[stalingrad]

These alternate(fake) CBDs have low earning working..mostly earning 6-10K.. how they gonna afford 2M house..Hell, how they even gonna afford 4-5K rental of these houses ?

give it time. you think that the doctors at the new jurong hospital will only 6-10k?

[Alan Shearer]

Never happen Stally boy!

You are dreaming.

[Allthepies]

one of the trends many have missed is that the government is promoting alternative CBDs and businesses are leaving the old CBD. jurong, Tampines, Changi will flourish as more and more businesses move in.

One day, the downtown CBD will be just one of many CBD's, and there is no need for employees of businesses to travel a long way to the old downtown CBD. when that day comes, prices will truly equalize. What we are seeing is just a preview of what future holds for Singapore, an island with no suburbs and equalized property prices.

although it is to my advantage that what u say becomes reality, but i don't think this is going to happen orchard is always orchard and no way it can be replaced by jurong east or tampines =) unless government start tearing down all the shopping centres and hotels and condos there and replace with HDB, market and hawker centres....

[Jadey]

one of the trends many have missed is that the government is promoting alternative CBDs and businesses are leaving the old CBD. jurong, Tampines, Changi will flourish as more and more businesses move in.

One day, the downtown CBD will be just one of many CBD's, and there is no need for employees of businesses to travel a long way to the old downtown CBD. when that day comes, prices will truly equalize. What we are seeing is just a preview of what future holds for Singapore, an island with no suburbs and equalized property prices.

Tampines and JLD are not CBD, they are commercial hub. There can only be one CENTRAL BD in Singapore as many businesses will always remain in CBD due to the proximity of companies from related industry.


Among the commercial hub, i think Jurong gateway will have the biggest potential to attract companies away from CBD.

[stalingrad]

Tampines and JLD are not CBD, they are commercial hub. There can only be one CENTRAL BD in Singapore as many businesses will always remain in CBD due to the proximity of companies from related industry.


Among the commercial hub, i think Jurong gateway will have the biggest potential to attract companies away from CBD.

one central CBD may remain, but just by shifting the center of gravity from CBD to outlying area, the government will cause prices to continue to equalize. there may still be a gap, but this gap will be the smallest by historical standards.

come to think of it, if a NUS graduate from Tampines can find a job at DBS bank near his home, why would he bother to come to CBD.

I for one have not been in CBD for years. I have never visited ION. the only thing I know about it is through unflattering news reporting. I know it is prone to flooding and businesses are demanding lower rent.

[EBD]

give it time. you think that the doctors at the new jurong hospital will only 6-10k?

Doctors earn a lot less than you think here. Look at http://www.salary.sg/2010/top-100-jo...ingapore-2010/
General physician – $10,979 - 3rd quartile

Also how many at one hospital? 300? 500?

Anyhow, I wish you luck with the dream that your middle of nowhere condo will be equal to CCR.

First must start to tear down all the malls on Orchard and replace with wet market and HDB.

Singapore will be first country in the world to have achieved such a scenario



ps and by definition can only have 1 CBD - C stands for central

[Alan Shearer]

The gap will widen and so it should do.

100% certainty.

Downtown will soar.

[stalingrad]

The gap will widen and so it should do.

100% certainty.

Downtown will soar.

good luck. Teddy has been saying that for years. he is still waiting, and so are you.

the fact is with rental yield at prime districts at record lows, you will need a miracle for your dream to come true.

[CCR]

Guys let's take a vote.... jurong Lake district 2000 psf, orchard 2300 psf..... May I know who will choose jurong and who will choose orchard?