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Thread: Psychological Studies regarding buying & owning property

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    Default Psychological Studies regarding buying & owning property

    I am wondering what would the 1st time buyers of HDB flats do: Would they borrow:
    1) loan from HDB at 2.6%
    Or 2) loan from private banks at 1%
    Assuming they intend to borrow for 35 years.

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    I am wondering what would the 1st time buyers of HDB flats do - Would they:
    1) Buy DBSS and pay a significant premium (like >$120k for a 5rm flat of 1100 sqft) with all renovations done & even equipped with oven, heater, etc all thrown in (just like private condo), only need to buy bed & furnitures
    Or 2) Buy plain vanilla BTO and do renovation themselves?
    Or 3) Buy resale at own choice location, floor level, facing with govt grant & renovate themselves?

    Which do they perceive to be more worth while?

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    I am wondering what would the 1st time buyers of HDB flats do: Would they borrow:
    1) loan from HDB at 2.6%
    Or 2) loan from private banks at 1%
    Assuming they intend to borrow for 35 years.
    now hdb can loan 35yrs??..

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    I am wondering what would the 1st time buyers of HDB flats do - Would they:
    1) Buy DBSS and pay a significant premium (like >$120k for a 5rm flat of 1100 sqft) with all renovations done & even equipped with oven, heater, etc all thrown in (just like private condo), only need to buy bed & furnitures
    Or 2) Buy plain vanilla BTO and do renovation themselves?
    Or 3) Buy resale at own choice location, floor level, facing with govt grant & renovate themselves?

    Which do they perceive to be more worth while?
    Cfm bto la....still nid to tink meh? Hehe

    Foc 100-200k or more from ah gong.....can take must take one

    Buy resale pay cov and grant only 40k.....super lugi.....resale is for 2nd timers or PR de.....

    Dbss...hmm....might as well get EC? Hehe

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    I am wondering what would the 1st time buyers of HDB flats do: Would they borrow:
    1) loan from HDB at 2.6%
    Or 2) loan from private banks at 1%
    Assuming they intend to borrow for 35 years.
    Like wat mr b said....int rate scarly shoot up how?

    So for our roof, take hdb better....2.6% oredi world lowest liao....and hdb more frenly mah....no money can owe abit rite....hehe

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    Know of two young couples who put down payment for DBSS.
    Loan- never check properly, later found out can't get the amount of bank loan, then have to borrow here and there, so pathetic.

    To me, if earn $10k or less a year, just settle for BTO.
    After 5 years, then consider upgrading.
    BTO look nice nowadays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    I am wondering what would the 1st time buyers of HDB flats do: Would they borrow:
    1) loan from HDB at 2.6%
    Or 2) loan from private banks at 1%
    Assuming they intend to borrow for 35 years.
    No need to wonder. Just take up the temp job of a HDB front desk officer dealing with people buying BTOs. You will get more accurate answers. I'm sure you actually don't have to work since you are a landlord but you have thirst for knowledge.

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    if you read ch8 news for past few years, most interviewee bought dbss because it comes with renovation included, and also better location

    last time there were some "whitebox" hdb pilot programs, where hdb comes as 4-walls only, you do whateva partitioning as you wish. i think that's is a damn good concept... but dead...

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    From various sources, it seem that DBSS is so popular despite the super high price tag is because no renovation is required (& still inclusive of oven, hob, hood, water heater, air-con, wardrobe, flooring etc), just buy bed & can move in already! In this case, BTO not so preferred, then whitebox sure die of no demand!

    However, from cost-effective view point, BTO definitely seems better value than DBSS. Obviously, BTO surely better than resale because of the huge price difference. Appearently, resale HDB buyers mostly PRs and upgraders/HDB switchers.

    Quote Originally Posted by ikan bilis
    if you read ch8 news for past few years, most interviewee bought dbss because it comes with renovation included, and also better location

    last time there were some "whitebox" hdb pilot programs, where hdb comes as 4-walls only, you do whateva partitioning as you wish. i think that's is a damn good concept... but dead...

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    To me, I look at it differently,…. => bottom line is how much you have inside your pocket…


    First time buyer, I would think
    - if they can afford dbss or ec, likely they will cheong into that
    - next, they will get resale hdb if can afford to
    - they will get bto because no choice with limited $$, and not much urgency


    for those higher earners, e.g. graduate couples
    - how many will apply bto if they could afford an ec or condo?


    For those condo downgrading to hdb
    - lots of ca$h mah, they just get some resale hdb with good location and renovation, and throw in more $$ in renovation
    - who will apply bto?


    Most people spend more than necessary for their first home, most people push to the max for their first home, may be for face reason, or greedy for future capital appreciation or etc…. => limiting factor as $$ issue, and $$ issues means to come out with that 20% downpayment and subsequent monthly mortgage repayment…


    ...and,... not a correct way of using your knowledge on private property investment onto hdb for own stay... and majority of hdb dwellers are salary earners, not enterpreneurs, also younger age,... so different way of thinking....

    if want to "Psychological Studies" then must think from different angle...

    Last edited by ikan bilis; 26-11-11 at 23:25.

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    Cfm bto la....still nid to tink meh? Hehe

    Foc 100-200k or more from ah gong.....can take must take one

    Buy resale pay cov and grant only 40k.....super lugi.....resale is for 2nd timers or PR de.....

    Dbss...hmm....might as well get EC? Hehe
    yeah, confirm should go for BTO. otherwise the next step is EC. the only reason why DBSS still have demand is because their location tends to be better, otherwise BTO will be the one moving with most of the sales and DBSS projects can swat flies.

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    May be I should shift the psychological study to condos:
    1) do people mind apts (little facilities) vs condos?
    2) why pay so much for apts with little facilities? Might as well buy condos?

    Quote Originally Posted by ikan bilis
    To me, I look at it differently,…. => bottom line is how much you have inside your pocket…


    First time buyer, I would think
    - if they can afford dbss or ec, likely they will cheong into that
    - next, they will get resale hdb if can afford to
    - they will get bto because no choice with limited $$, and not much urgency


    for those higher earners, e.g. graduate couples
    - how many will apply bto if they could afford an ec or condo?


    For those condo downgrading to hdb
    - lots of ca$h mah, they just get some resale hdb with good location and renovation, and throw in more $$ in renovation
    - who will apply bto?


    Most people spend more than necessary for their first home, most people push to the max for their first home, may be for face reason, or greedy for future capital appreciation or etc…. => limiting factor as $$ issue, and $$ issues means to come out with that 20% downpayment and subsequent monthly mortgage repayment…


    ...and,... not a correct way of using your knowledge on private property investment onto hdb for own stay... and majority of hdb dwellers are salary earners, not enterpreneurs, also younger age,... so different way of thinking....

    if want to "Psychological Studies" then must think from different angle...


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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    May be I should shift the psychological study to condos:
    1) do people mind apts (little facilities) vs condos?
    2) why pay so much for apts with little facilities? Might as well buy condos?
    Point out some specific projects for case study purposes lor...

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    Point out some specific projects for case study purposes lor...
    From recent experiences appears that security guards fees take up about over 30% of maintenance fees. Other than opening gate barriers they dont really have value add as often dont check visitors and illegal parking wheel clamp is moot point since lots never fully utilised anyway... If you swim and gym workout or tennis every or other day or every weekend you bbq it is worthwhile for project with facilities. Otherwise can considered underused...

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    May be I should shift the psychological study to condos:
    1) do people mind apts (little facilities) vs condos?
    2) why pay so much for apts with little facilities? Might as well buy condos?
    Its never just about the facilities. Apartment projects are almost always quieter due to fewer/smaller units.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    May be I should shift the psychological study to condos:
    1) do people mind apts (little facilities) vs condos?
    2) why pay so much for apts with little facilities? Might as well buy condos?
    bro... very hard to answer you...
    has to be more specific like for investment purpose or own-staying with limited budget,... and lots of details like location, mrt, rental value affecting decision too... and also timing/sentiments...

    got 1 case:
    in 2004/5, my friend visited some apt, no facilities, think should be Phoenix Height at TeckWhye. ground flr ~1000sqft at $200-250K. cheaper than hdb,... but no way you could rent out at that time... we were laughing at it but think now price also 2-3x liow....

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    Isit dtrax tat mentioned abt his guru fren bot 4 units of pearlbank in 06 and make more den double within a yr? Old old 99lh but appreciate the most within tat period?

    I hf seen many 99lh appreciated more den fh.....

    Remember citysq only 8xxpsf lelong when it just TOP in 09? Ah neh, teh ni ni tio aplenty but px also shoot up alot....rental also vy goodie way beyond my expectation

    Recently many small small super cmi old old apts kena enbloc whereas old old big big condos tio roadblock.....however those small apt wif pr 1.4 also tio blocked liao....hahaha

    Long story short, entry px above everything

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    Isit dtrax tat mentioned abt his guru fren bot 4 units of pearlbank in 06 and make more den double within a yr? Old old 99lh but appreciate the most within tat period?

    I hf seen many 99lh appreciated more den fh.....

    Remember citysq only 8xxpsf lelong when it just TOP in 09? Ah neh, teh ni ni tio aplenty but px also shoot up alot....rental also vy goodie way beyond my expectation

    Recently many small small super cmi old old apts kena enbloc whereas old old big big condos tio roadblock.....however those small apt wif pr 1.4 also tio blocked liao....hahaha

    Long story short, entry px above everything
    I can safely say its now about Timing, timing, timing. No more location location location given Seng Kang can hit 1300psf and Bedok 1500psf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    May be I should shift the psychological study to condos:
    1) do people mind apts (little facilities) vs condos?
    2) why pay so much for apts with little facilities? Might as well buy condos?
    Very hard to answer this questions….

    No facilities apts are all the very low end private housing. I will still say limiting factors as $$ for low end housing... still afford-ability...

    If I compare a 500sqft MM with facilities and a 700sq ft apts with no facilities, but same price...

    => For real market demand, i think....
    500sqft MM
    - For those singles or young couples, who cannot afford a bigger space with facilities.

    700sq ft apts with no facilities
    - For those small family, who cannot afford a similar apt with facilities. But they need that extra bedroom

    => For investment purpose, i think both can be rented out quite easily, and similar upward price potential. 500ft MM more liquid, 700ft apt more en-bloc value.





    i think you guys might still be looking at it from investor's point of view... but the majority in the market could be struggling to buy that roof... so market behaviour might not be what we expect...

    also note that demand for this low end housing is very much "distorted" by that HDB resale market...

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    Ikan bilis is a shark in disguise.....hehehe

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    Quote Originally Posted by buttercarp
    Know of two young couples who put down payment for DBSS.
    Loan- never check properly, later found out can't get the amount of bank loan, then have to borrow here and there, so pathetic.

    To me, if earn $10k or less a year, just settle for BTO.
    After 5 years, then consider upgrading.
    BTO look nice nowadays.
    sometimes u got to wonder what is wrong with these people. Probably the single biggest purchase in their life up to that point and they dont do their sums properly.

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    Got hypnotised by the glamourously dressed up showflat, thought being young couples, they can borrow infinite amount of money.

    Actually, a DBSS is about say 700k for a very good one. If they can downpay 20%. Loan quantum about $550k. Assuming HDB interest rate of 2.6% and 30 year repayment, monthly instalment is $2200. Which is still manageable for a family drawing $6k a month.

    If they're earning $4k, combined, then why on earth are they looking at DBSS instead of BTO??

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    Quote Originally Posted by kane
    Got hypnotised by the glamourously dressed up showflat, thought being young couples, they can borrow infinite amount of money.

    Actually, a DBSS is about say 700k for a very good one. If they can downpay 20%. Loan quantum about $550k. Assuming HDB interest rate of 2.6% and 30 year repayment, monthly instalment is $2200. Which is still manageable for a family drawing $6k a month.

    If they're earning $4k, combined, then why on earth are they looking at DBSS instead of BTO??
    Can buyer take hdb loan for dbss?

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    let me put down another scenario (real cases), this 1 not for "Psychological Studies" hor, but may be can show HDB resale market damn screw-ed up...

    5rm hdb (HDB record)
    288B Bt Batok St 25 01 to 05 122.00 Improved 1998 $527,000.00 Sep 2011
    289D Bt Batok St 25 11 to 15 121.00 Improved 1997 $528,000.00 Sep 2011
    288G Bt Batok St 25 01 to 05 121.00 Improved 1997 $520,000.00 Aug 2011
    289D Bt Batok St 25 11 to 15 121.00 Improved 1997 $570,000.00 Aug 2011

    Parkview Apartment 3bdr, Full facilities Swimming pool and etc (URA record)
    PARKVIEW APARTMENTS BUKIT BATOK STREET 25 Apartment 1 800,000 1,119 Strata 715 Oct-11
    PARKVIEW APARTMENTS BUKIT BATOK STREET 25 Apartment 1 840,000 1,130 Strata 743 Oct-11
    PARKVIEW APARTMENTS BUKIT BATOK STREET 25 Apartment 1 780,000 1,130 Strata 690 Oct-11
    PARKVIEW APARTMENTS BUKIT BATOK STREET 25 Apartment 1 820,000 1,130 Strata 726 Oct-11
    PARKVIEW APARTMENTS BUKIT BATOK STREET 25 Apartment 1 830,000 1,119 Strata 741 Oct-11

    - both next to each other
    - both not near MRT
    - both about 10yr old,
    - both 3 bedroom, but hdb slightly bigger

    for the 5rm hdb, you need about 20% down (~100K) + 10% COV (~50K), monthly loan repayment $1478 (400K, 30yr, 2%), Total upfront $150K and $50K must be in cash

    for Parkview apts, you need 20% down (~164K), monthly loan repayment $2424 (400K, 30yr, 2%), Total upfront $164K and all can be in cpf


    if you can afford the loan repayment of S$2500/month comfortably, which 1 will you buy??..


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    I hv quite a number of frns, who are very well to-do...but simply refused to help their children to buy private condo...
    main reason : they must buy HDB flat to get the grant....otherwise, they will lose out on the grant.....

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    Not for the grant but to take what a Singaporean is entitled to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna
    I hv quite a number of frns, who are very well to-do...but simply refused to help their children to buy private condo...
    main reason : they must buy HDB flat to get the grant....otherwise, they will lose out on the grant.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008
    Not for the grant but to take what a Singaporean is entitled to.
    Ooops, how can Sg Govt did not give me such entitlement....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna
    I hv quite a number of frns, who are very well to-do...but simply refused to help their children to buy private condo...
    main reason : they must buy HDB flat to get the grant....otherwise, they will lose out on the grant.....
    Yes, that is a must, since it's gifted to our young couples, must take it first. Five years later then plan for the next house.

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    You guys are investors, for dbss buyers the most important is to stay near parents so dbss is the choice, having a baby while staying far from parents very stressful one. 100k grant is just peanut for family making 10k per month, Coe 100k coming
    Ride at your own risk !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna
    Ooops, how can Sg Govt did not give me such entitlement....
    They stole my entitlement when I am few months away from getting it!!!

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