Watertown : Punggol Waterfront Living

[amk]

The problem is new launches in ccr also shrinks its sizes.

Not all. Most decent CCR new launches have decent sizes. Goodwood Residences, Cyan, and those bunch along Patterson hill. Actually it's really a mix. You have speculative plays, also have true luxury plays. As I said, true luxury lies in space, for luxury segment you will always have generous sized apartments.
But for OCR now, name me one new launch who has big 3bd > 1400 sqft, 4bd > 1900 sqft ? The marketing strategy for this segment is different. It's very clear affordability is the key.

[Wild Falcon]

Those launched quite some time ago. Not considered "new" launches. Cyan still considered new launch?

CCR starts the SMALL IS BEAUTIFUL trend. In the past, it is impossible to find studios in the outskirts. It's only recently the small studios move to the suburbs. Try to find a completed studio unit in OCR - not easy. It has been a while small units have been used in CCR and RCR to push up PSF. And as I've predicted, the trend moves to OCR as well. OCR is always a follower, not a leader.

In fact, I have problem naming OCR launches with only MMs (maybe D19 only?). But for CCR, I can at least name a few without cracking my head like Holland Suites, Mackenzie, or Sophia Suites or Steven Suites or this or that Suites or Newton Edge or sth like that. These developments are pure hardcore MM developments. And to be fair comparison, OCR consist of 18 districts while CCR only 5 districts? So theoretically if there are many pure MM developments, I should be able to name 4x more.

The trend to move smaller has been there across all districts. Just see with less biasness.

Not all. Most decent CCR new launches have decent sizes. Goodwood Residences, Cyan, and those bunch along Patterson hill. Actually it's really a mix. You have speculative plays, also have true luxury plays. As I said, true luxury lies in space, for luxury segment you will always have generous sized apartments.
But for OCR now, name me one new launch who has big 3bd > 1400 sqft, 4bd > 1900 sqft ? The marketing strategy for this segment is different. It's very clear affordability is the key.

[amk]

I'm not only referring to MMs. MMs are pure speculative play.

I'm referring to family size apartments in general. Can u name me one OCR new launch with 3bd > 1400 and 4bd > 1800 ? Can you name the same in CCR ? I already said CCR is a mixed play.

You are of course correct to say downsizing is across the board. The difference is, proper CCR new launches are still decent sized , like CAPL's Urban ***. Whereas even proper OCR new launches are not. 3bd < 1200 is a norm. Dun quote those hardcore oxley developments which are pure profiteering.

We've been to this many times already and neither can convince th other. My view has always been, the OCR buyers did not get richer. It's the apartment being sold in OCR that get cheaper by being smaller. Pte properties used to be for the 20%, very soon it will be 40%. This does not mean the other 20% suddenly got rich.

[amk]

And to upgrade to a private condo is every HDB household's dream. The market for this is huge. How to achieve this within the means of upgraders , Watertown is the best example. Overall, every one is happy. Buyers, developers, even KBW.

[phantom_opera]

Suites - fancy term for small units
1BR (~533-540 sqft) x 117 units
2BR Compact (~573- 593 sqft) x 266 units

SOHO - fancy term for high ceiling units
2BR Compact (~595– 612 sqft) x 163 units
3BR Compact (~812- 823 sqft) x 109 units

66% below 823sqft
55% below 612sqft

[DC33_2008]

We need them to prop up the property price. KBW should be studying on the % of people who bought condos:
a. rented out their hdb flats;
b. sold their flats, etc.

And to upgrade to a private condo is every HDB household's dream. The market for this is huge. How to achieve this within the means of upgraders , Watertown is the best example. Overall, every one is happy. Buyers, developers, even KBW.

[DC33_2008]

The FEO advert shows SOHO has 3.4m. This will be a problem if you want to have a mezzanine floor.

Suites - fancy term for small units
1BR (~533-540 sqft) x 117 units
2BR Compact (~573- 593 sqft) x 266 units

SOHO - fancy term for high ceiling units
2BR Compact (~595– 612 sqft) x 163 units
3BR Compact (~812- 823 sqft) x 109 units

66% below 823sqft
55% below 612sqft

[sh]

We need them to prop up the property price. KBW should be studying on the % of people who bought condos:
a. rented out their hdb flats;
b. sold their flats, etc.

c. continue to stay in HDB and rent out condo

80% stay in HDB, but 40% owns condo.... figures don't add up but that's increasingly becoming reality.

[DC33_2008]

a. is the same as c. unless stay in hdb and rent out condos 2,3,...

c. continue to stay in HDB and rent out condo.

Got a single who bought the old flat from father and rent it out but stay with father in brother's flats. Good rental for a 3 room for $2.2k.

80% stay in HDB, but 40% owns condo.... figures don't add up but that's increasingly becoming reality.

[DC33_2008]

Hope garment will not introduce a different property tax bracket for the no. of condos.

c. continue to stay in HDB and rent out condo

80% stay in HDB, but 40% owns condo.... figures don't add up but that's increasingly becoming reality.

[teddybear]

Does it solve the problem this way?
Since those pushing up OCR private property prices are HDB upgraders probably buying their 1st private property, property's property tax increase 200% for 1st private property? Fainted! Hope we don't such half-baked new rules & regulations!

To tame HDB flats resale prices & super high HDB flat rentals (the major source of money enabling so many to chase up OCR private property prices), may be should implement additional property tax for tenanted HDB properties at 50% of AV instead of current 10%? Then they guai guai sell their non-residential HDB flats lor!
But hor, so many tenanted out HDB flats without reporting to HDB and reporting as income, IRAS & HDB better go catch these people lah!

Hope garment will not introduce a different property tax bracket for the no. of condos.

[DC33_2008]

It is no good to all multiple home owners. It is not difficult for garment to track down this group of people who rent out their flats w/o permission. It all depends whether they want and worth doing it.

Does it solve the problem this way?
Since those pushing up OCR private property prices are HDB upgraders probably buying their 1st private property, property's property tax increase 200% for 1st private property? Fainted! Hope we don't such half-baked new rules & regulations!

To tame HDB flats resale prices & super high HDB flat rentals (the major source of money enabling so many to chase up OCR private property prices), may be should implement additional property tax for tenanted HDB properties at 50% of AV instead of current 10%? Then they guai guai sell their non-residential HDB flats lor!
But hor, so many tenanted out HDB flats without reporting to HDB and reporting as income, IRAS & HDB better go catch these people lah!

[flxcat]

It is no good to all multiple home owners. It is not difficult for garment to track down this group of people who rent out their flats w/o permission. It all depends whether they want and worth doing it.

On 938 radio talkshow this morning, SLP Nicholas Mak share one possibility that if hdb not allow to rent out, will create a problem for middle income foreign professionals working here. Condo might be out of their budget.

Guess our govt is aware of this long time ago. So doubt they want to curb HDB renting unless they have a way to solve this issue since Singapore needs the foreign talent. Unless there are enough supply in pte condo And rental drop to an equilibrium point and become affordable for them to rent. When that is achieved maybe the HDB rental will start to see intervention from govt. pure speculation for the fun of discussion, no concrete ground to support this argument. Cheers!

[Arcachon]

Does it solve the problem this way?
Since those pushing up OCR private property prices are HDB upgraders probably buying their 1st private property, property's property tax increase 200% for 1st private property? Fainted! Hope we don't such half-baked new rules & regulations!

To tame HDB flats resale prices & super high HDB flat rentals (the major source of money enabling so many to chase up OCR private property prices), may be should implement additional property tax for tenanted HDB properties at 50% of AV instead of current 10%? Then they guai guai sell their non-residential HDB flats lor!
But hor, so many tenanted out HDB flats without reporting to HDB and reporting as income, IRAS & HDB better go catch these people lah!

IRAS and HDB busy preparing for audit.

[fclim]

I'm not only referring to MMs. MMs are pure speculative play.

I'm referring to family size apartments in general. Can u name me one OCR new launch with 3bd > 1400 and 4bd > 1800 ? Can you name the same in CCR ? I already said CCR is a mixed play.

You are of course correct to say downsizing is across the board. The difference is, proper CCR new launches are still decent sized , like CAPL's Urban ***. Whereas even proper OCR new launches are not. 3bd < 1200 is a norm. Dun quote those hardcore oxley developments which are pure profiteering.

We've been to this many times already and neither can convince th other. My view has always been, the OCR buyers did not get richer. It's the apartment being sold in OCR that get cheaper by being smaller. Pte properties used to be for the 20%, very soon it will be 40%. This does not mean the other 20% suddenly got rich.

Today, 1 in every 12 Singaporeans is aged 65 and above. By 2030, this ratio will increase to 1 in every 5 Singaporeans. Wouldn't well located MMs with amenities be in demand?

[DC33_2008]

It will be MM by HDB not private MM.

Today, 1 in every 12 Singaporeans is aged 65 and above. By 2030, this ratio will increase to 1 in every 5 Singaporeans. Wouldn't well located MMs with amenities be in demand?

[ysyap]

Today, 1 in every 12 Singaporeans is aged 65 and above. By 2030, this ratio will increase to 1 in every 5 Singaporeans. Wouldn't well located MMs with amenities be in demand?

2030 is still 18 years away... probably moved house 2 more times and bought and sold another 4 properties already... hmmm... maybe should just hold on to a good location FH and wait for good asking in 20 years?

[DC33_2008]

Why Sell? Buy good ones and keep them for rental income. Retire in the smaller unit when times come but certainly not a MM unit.

2030 is still 18 years away... probably moved house 2 more times and bought and sold another 4 properties already... hmmm... maybe should just hold on to a good location FH and wait for good asking in 20 years?

[Jonathan0503]

Why Sell? Buy good ones and keep them for rental income. Retire in the smaller unit when times come but certainly not a MM unit.

Why not retire in MM leh?

Thought should be better since less cleaning and maintenance to do? When old, might not have a lot of energy and strength to do all the household chores woh

[chiaberry]

I wonder what will happen if the rental market becomes saturated. More units than tenants. Then this will ruin the plans of many who would be relying on the rental income. FT may flock elsewhere eg China, India. Who knows what the economic scenario may be like in 20 years time? It may not be prudent to put all eggs in one basked (ie Singpaore property).

[beepbeep]

Why so hot? This is not true riverside living!

I was in Amsterdam just yesterday this is what riverside living looks and feels like:



Will it be the same for watertown?

Whats the smell like?

If Watertown is to be build this way, you will have another set of complain.

[Kenshinto80]

Whats the smell like?

If Watertown is to be build this way, you will have another set of complain.

Wat kinda of complaints? Pic seems nice.

[hyenergix]

I used to study in Netherlands. Nice picturesque place. No smell from the waterways because the waters are always flowing gently and people do not litter into them.

[ysyap]

Why Sell? Buy good ones and keep them for rental income. Retire in the smaller unit when times come but certainly not a MM unit.

Sell when the asking is too tempting to reject. Keep when asking is too low for liking. Yes... will definitely keep at least 1 unit for rental purposes and for old age...

[ysyap]

I wonder what will happen if the rental market becomes saturated. More units than tenants. Then this will ruin the plans of many who would be relying on the rental income. FT may flock elsewhere eg China, India. Who knows what the economic scenario may be like in 20 years time? It may not be prudent to put all eggs in one basked (ie Singpaore property).

Don't worry lah... our lovely govt will always supplement foreigner supply so rental market will not be too badly affected. HDB rental market being the lowest tier of that market will be comfortably cushioned...

[TMATT]

Early Jan 2009 is about $688psf,
actual data available ---
BISHAN 8 BISHAN STREET 21 Condominium 1 925,000 1,163 Strata 796psf Feb-10

ISHAN 8 BISHAN STREET 21 Condominium 1 1,470,000 1,163 Strata 1,260psf Dec-11

so not true that it does not raise, unless you are refer to 10yrs ago, they launch at 1300psf????

Although i did not have any FarEast Project property, but most of them who buy actually do benefit from it, of course few years later what the outcome no one know.

I can sell u a store room for 500K and call it cheap too! thats why I always give all FEO project a miss. If hear FEO win a land bid quickly go look ard the secondary market near by. For sure FEO will price 10yrs worth of price in the new launch...

Look at bishan 8! its a good example. I think many stil barely break even after 10yrs.

[azeoprop]

Take a look inside watertown and waterway point mall.

http://youtu.be/6Gf9rmxbY9U

[maisonjai]

the video power la, ma chiam ura's concept plan for punggol 21..haha

[minority]

Silversea. Got sea breeze, dunno got sea view anot.

Silversea is FEO dont expect any good deal. Buyer are the loosers. at least for the 1st 10-20 yrs.

[minority]

On 938 radio talkshow this morning, SLP Nicholas Mak share one possibility that if hdb not allow to rent out, will create a problem for middle income foreign professionals working here. Condo might be out of their budget.

Guess our govt is aware of this long time ago. So doubt they want to curb HDB renting unless they have a way to solve this issue since Singapore needs the foreign talent. Unless there are enough supply in pte condo And rental drop to an equilibrium point and become affordable for them to rent. When that is achieved maybe the HDB rental will start to see intervention from govt. pure speculation for the fun of discussion, no concrete ground to support this argument. Cheers!

one way! government enbloc flats are re rent to foreign workers only. and control rental price. if u cant get rid of speculation! fix them!