A few CCR transactions sold at a loss (reported in The Edge)

[cartman]

i was tempted to go view the orchard scotts unit but was not motivated when i learnt its 99 years and the maintenance fee is >$1000 per month although it has 387 units, more than the average cairnhill condos. pity because the transacted price was around my budget.

anyone knows how good the concierge service is to justify the 1000+ per month? some condos in neighbouring cairnhill area were only ~$600 per month

[stalingrad]

According to wiki, the largest city in Canada is Toronto. It has an area of 630 sq.km and a population of 2.6 million. According to wiki, Singapore has an area of 718 sq.km and a population of 5.5 million.

Only if you look at Toronto proper. If you look at greater Toronto, which includes its bedroom communities, it is 7,200 square km, 10 times the size of Singapore.

Well, size doesn't mean everything. The point I was making is that for a country as small as Singapore, it doesn't matter where you live or at least not such much as in other, bigger countries. We used to live in west coast, up until I resigned from NUS and moved back to Canada. We had access to everything, and orchard is only 15-20 minutes away. So, what is the point of living in CCR? Most Singaporeans don't see the point either. That is why CCR properties are crashing left and right even as we speak.

[cartman]

Only if you look at Toronto proper. If you look at greater Toronto, which includes its bedroom communities, it is 7,200 square km, 10 times the size of Singapore.

Well, size doesn't mean everything. The point I was making is that for a country as small as Singapore, it doesn't matter where you live or at least not such much as in other, bigger countries. We used to live in west coast, up until I resigned from NUS and moved back to Canada. We had access to everything, and orchard is only 15-20 minutes away. So, what is the point of living in CCR? Most Singaporeans don't see the point either. That is why CCR properties are crashing left and right even as we speak.

its not that people don't see the point...it still boils down to price and quantum.

someone travels via business or first class, you can also claim that most don't see the point...sour grapes?

[walkthetiger]

Only if you look at Toronto proper. If you look at greater Toronto, which includes its bedroom communities, it is 7,200 square km, 10 times the size of Singapore.

Well, size doesn't mean everything. The point I was making is that for a country as small as Singapore, it doesn't matter where you live or at least not such much as in other, bigger countries. We used to live in west coast, up until I resigned from NUS and moved back to Canada. We had access to everything, and orchard is only 15-20 minutes away. So, what is the point of living in CCR? Most Singaporeans don't see the point either. That is why CCR properties are crashing left and right even as we speak.

If you work in NUS, so you prefer west coast. It is where is you workplace matter more.

[bargain hunter]

if i'm not mistaken, this unit of 1,873 sq ft is a 4th floor unit which is a 3 bedroom loft. that means the 1,873 sq ft unit actually has a smaller floor plate on each floor and may include some air space. that may account for the lower psf which is the norm for this type of units in the current market (vs 2007).

One thing to note, Orchard Scotts was originally planned to be a hotel in the early 2000s. However due to the down turn, it was converted to residential. Having said that, I'm not sure if this ppty has r bloc potential ala Rochelle whose freehold title belongs to the clan next door. But 1,495 is still cheap which ever way you look at it.

[bargain hunter]

i'm not familiar with de-coupling though. need some expert to help.

but for purchase, i m very sure. stick to your price as long as seller is willing to sell to u at that price. then look for a banker/valuer who is willing to match your price. but of course, make sure u find that banker/valuer before making that offer officially.

it happens particularly for the less transacted projects. the last transaction was so long ago (possibly just before the 2013 tdsr or something) when prices have hardly fallen. some valuers work on the logic that your offer price is too far below the last transacted price which i totally disagree with.

Thanks. My banker gave me some BS like must transact at arms length, fair value so bank not willing to go below valuation by too much. Ok, gently gonna ask my banker again.

On the other hand, I have a place that is jointly owned with my wife that I wish to decouple. Value has gone up by 45% from purchase price. Here I tried to 'sell' my share to her at cost. Again, the banker said must transact at market value / arms length. While technically it's just left to right pocket, however I cannot comprehend the logic. Only reason I can think of is to avoid questions from IRAS on lower stamp fees due to lower transacted value. Any thoughts or advice? I have contacted 2 local banks on this and both gave the same reply that I need to 'sell' at the +45% or thereabouts.

[bargain hunter]

St Regis

Sold 29 JUN 2015 33 TANGLIN ROAD #XX-XX 3,897sq ft 2,200psf
Bought 29 MAY 2007 2,986psf

[bargain hunter]

Turquoise

Sold 8 JUL 2015 51 COVE DRIVE #XX-XX 2,185sq ft 1,327psf
Bought 29 OCT 2007 2,763psf

[onglai]

Turquoise

Sold 8 JUL 2015 51 COVE DRIVE #XX-XX 2,185sq ft 1,327psf
Bought 29 OCT 2007 2,763psf

<half price!!

i really dunno whether i shd hope for this to happen in ocr or not...

[teddybear]

Didn't the government want to make the OCR private properties affordable for HDB upgraders? If so, OCR private condo price gap in $PSF must definitely narrow to those of HDB resale flats...............

<half price!!

i really dunno whether i shd hope for this to happen in ocr or not...

[sherlock]

Turquoise

Sold 8 JUL 2015 51 COVE DRIVE #XX-XX 2,185sq ft 1,327psf
Bought 29 OCT 2007 2,763psf

Lose until pants drop

[sherlock]

Lose until pants drop

Including the shirt

[Kelonguni]

Didn't the government want to make the OCR private properties affordable for HDB upgraders? If so, OCR private condo price gap in $PSF must definitely narrow to those of HDB resale flats...............

CCR narrowing to OCR on average about 350psf as predicted. District 4 is CCR.

[Laguna]

Thanks. My banker gave me some BS like must transact at arms length, fair value so bank not willing to go below valuation by too much. Ok, gently gonna ask my banker again.

On the other hand, I have a place that is jointly owned with my wife that I wish to decouple. Value has gone up by 45% from purchase price. Here I tried to 'sell' my share to her at cost. Again, the banker said must transact at market value / arms length. While technically it's just left to right pocket, however I cannot comprehend the logic. Only reason I can think of is to avoid questions from IRAS on lower stamp fees due to lower transacted value. Any thoughts or advice? I have contacted 2 local banks on this and both gave the same reply that I need to 'sell' at the +45% or thereabouts.

Decoupling is as good as a sale.
You must have a valuation report to support the transacted price. The report costs $1,000.

On top, you wife needs to meet the TDSR to take over your portion of loan.

Some lawyers insisted to have actual cash transferred as well.

[Sandiwara]

Didn't the government want to make the OCR private properties affordable for HDB upgraders? If so, OCR private condo price gap in $PSF must definitely narrow to those of HDB resale flats...............

If the price gap between OCR condo and HDB is very close then the renting price will be closer between Condo and HDB. What will happen then?

[thomastansb]

Not all D4 are CCR. Only those on Sentosa Island are considered as CCR. Reflection/Carribean are still RCR.

CCR narrowing to OCR on average about 350psf as predicted. District 4 is CCR.

[teddybear]

Example, Senkang HDB flats $400 psf. Sengkang OCR condos now >$1000 psf, should drop to <$800 psf to acheive Government's aim of making OCR condos affordable for HDB upgraders............. Anyway OCR condo prices are still trending down...

CCR narrowing to OCR on average about 350psf as predicted. District 4 is CCR.

[teddybear]

HDB flats are built for owners' own-stay, not to make profit from rental of whole unit.........
The Singapore government deemed OCR private condos too expensive for HDB upgraders, so must come down.... Rental is never a consideration for OCR private condos, presumably because OCR condos are also meant for own stay..............

If the price gap between OCR condo and HDB is very close then the renting price will be closer between Condo and HDB. What will happen then?

[Sandiwara]

HDB flats are built for owners' own-stay, not to make profit from rental of whole unit.........
The Singapore government deemed OCR private condos too expensive for HDB upgraders, so must come down.... Rental is never a consideration for OCR private condos, presumably because OCR condos are also meant for own stay..............

Wait until government program of "Decentralize Business Zone" is finish then you will see that OCR not only for own stay

[Kelonguni]

Example, Senkang HDB flats $400 psf. Sengkang OCR condos now >$1000 psf, should drop to <$800 psf to acheive Government's aim of making OCR condos affordable for HDB upgraders............. Anyway OCR condo prices are still trending down...

Overall trending down for last few months yes. But OCR and RCR has stabilised with uptick.

http://www.srx.com.sg/singapore-prop...4-year-on-year

[teddybear]

Regardless, Government / MAS believes OCR private property prices are still seriously over-valued, so a long way to fall from >$1000 psf................

"Still premature" to lift property cooling measures: MAS
Marissa Lee

SINGAPORE - Homeowners hoping for an end to the Government's property cooling measures and a rebound in home valuations must keep waiting.

The Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) said Tuesday that the measures - including a total debt servicing ratio (TDSR) framework implemented in June 2013 - are unlikely to go any time soon.

"Property prices have softened somewhat, but like I said last year, in the context of the price increase that occurred - 60 per cent over three years - the softening we've seen is really not all that much," MAS managing director Ravi Menon told a press conference on the release of the central bank's latest annual report.

"So it's still premature to consider removing any of the cooling measures that are in place," he added.

Wait until government program of "Decentralize Business Zone" is finish then you will see that OCR not only for own stay

[Kelonguni]

Regardless, Government / MAS believes OCR private property prices are still seriously over-valued, so a long way to fall from >$1000 psf................

I think they might never remove the cooling measure, maybe downtune marginally. It's a good alternative tax revenue and some are still willing to pay.

[stalingrad]

I think they might never remove the cooling measure, maybe downtune marginally. It's a good alternative tax revenue and some are still willing to pay.

The government is happy to see your post. It is sign that the measures should be and will be removed shortly.

[teddybear]

Probably have to wait for new launch OCR private condos prices to drop below $800 psf or until 2020 or thereafter then they may consider?

I think they might never remove the cooling measure, maybe downtune marginally. It's a good alternative tax revenue and some are still willing to pay.

[Kelonguni]

Probably have to wait for new launch OCR private condos prices to drop below $800 psf or until 2020 or thereafter then they may consider?

People come up with good reasons to tax you willingly, you really believe every word they say?

OK OCR 800 psf, CCR 1150psf. Gam?

[Werther]

Turquoise

Sold 8 JUL 2015 51 COVE DRIVE #XX-XX 2,185sq ft 1,327psf
Bought 29 OCT 2007 2,763psf

wow, jialat, really lelong...good for the buyer.

[teddybear]

So, you are telling us that MAS is lying to us when they made that statement that "private property prices are still too high" through the news media?

Is it possible for CCR Orchard to drop to $1150 psf? If so, then OCR more likely will be left at a price of less <$500 psf!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, Come 2020 or thereafter, OCR private property prices may be much less than $800 psf..........

People come up with good reasons to tax you willingly, you really believe every word they say?

OK OCR 800 psf, CCR 1150psf. Gam?

[Kelonguni]

So, you are telling us that MAS is lying to us when they made that statement that "private property prices are still too high" through the news media?

Is it possible for CCR Orchard to drop to $1150 psf? If so, then OCR more likely will be left at a price of less <$500 psf!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, Come 2020 or thereafter, OCR private property prices may be much less than $800 psf..........

Do I believe every word you say? Do you believe every word I say?

You expect MAS to say the CMs will stay because it is good money for Govt coffers?

If OCR 500 psf, CCR 850 psf. Shiok?

[teddybear]

If OCR 500 psf, CCR 850 psf. Shiok?

Very Shiok indeed!

Anyway, OCR private property prices at <$800 psf is becoming more and more like reality given the ever falling prices reported every quarter by URA. The trend is a FACT now, and for almost 7 quarters already, more pain to come....................

Do I believe every word you say? Do you believe every word I say?

You expect MAS to say the CMs will stay because it is good money for Govt coffers?

If OCR 500 psf, CCR 850 psf. Shiok?

[Kelonguni]

Very Shiok indeed!

Anyway, OCR private property prices at <$800 psf is becoming more and more like reality given the ever falling prices reported every quarter by URA. The trend is a FACT now, and for almost 7 quarters already, more pain to come....................

No need trend, just ban loans. CCR goes straight to 500 PSF. OCR 300 PSF.

Then next round Govt changed.

Wait for this quarter final report ok? Be patient. It shows CCR and OCR still falling while RCR has stablised.

http://www.srx.com.sg/singapore-prop...4-year-on-year