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Thread: A few CCR transactions sold at a loss (reported in The Edge)

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kane
    That's a really big unit. But yeah, the 15m buyer don't even know what hit him. Buy $15m for that particular unit... Now suffer a 4m loss.
    Biggest winner is the one who sold to him @ $15m... aka CDL...

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    Okok....hehehe

    Mbr got bullet must grab one 3bdr full bayview......low flr also can! Nxt time all the future plots dun hf bayview liao!
    Alamak I'm not the only one who knows this secret , dun fight wif me ok ?

    Mbr is also much much better built than the sail.

  3. #33
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    The fact that CCR price is narrowing compared to OCR signifies that Singapore has failed to catch up to HK as a Cosmopolitan and international city where the rich, power, famous, influential and successful businessmen & women will come to setup business and build their nest and create more jobs in Singapore?
    Oh my god! That is really bad for Singapore for the long-term!

    On the other hand, I also observe that the high $PSF in OCR doesn't mean the people living in OCR are getting richer, as we know that developers are all building mostly Mickey-mouse units of <700 sqft and even 3BRs units so small at <1000 sqft so that absolute quantum is <$1.5m when OCR are supposed to cater for general families and hence should instead be large (as people want to sacrifice convenient for the sake of larger size but this is not happening). Oh my god! The middle-income are not getting richer! That is really bad for Singapore for the long-term!

    I think the govt should:
    1) Get ride of 10% ABSD from discriminating against foreigners who want setup up nest here and bring money here to create jobs and make middle income become richer! May be foreigners buying properties >$3m and $2500 psf should be exempted from 10% ABSD since they are not competing with housing for the middle-income?
    2) The govt should first and foremost stopped developers from building all these MM units and 3BRs less than 1000 sqft chicken coops!
    3) 4-years SSD should start from TOP date to prevent more stupid people from paying $1500 psf for new launch when they can buy a nearby resale private condo for $1200 psf!

    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    One thing is for sure, 40% of households will be in condos, a jump of 20%.
    This additional 20% will be in OCR. Within OCR there should emerge the "prime" of OCRs. As an investor one hopefully can identify which one is the prime and profit from it. In 1996, ppl identified it wrongly with hillview, and really suffered for 15 yrs. There should have a lot of activities in OCR. I think it's an exciting market.
    CCR on the other hand is a very different game. It will follow Singapore's own success story and the overall economic climate. If we succeed as a nation, CCR will close the gap with HK.

  4. #34
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    Singapore has failed to catch up with hk .... Unfortunately it seems to be true ...

    I know of a few banks moving a lot of staff from SG to HK, despite HK having higher office rental cost, expat housing cost, and pollution ! Why ? Because every other bank is there.

    we only managed to get some back or middle office operations. A bank moves their tokyo operations to SG, only to move all out to India 2yrs later.

    SG really must not surrender to this anti-foreigner rhetoric.

  5. #35
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    Unfortunately it is already doing that: Starting with 10% ABSD for foreigners! Oops!

    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    Singapore has failed to catch up with hk .... Unfortunately it seems to be true ...

    I know of a few banks moving a lot of staff from SG to HK, despite HK having higher office rental cost, expat housing cost, and pollution ! Why ? Because every other bank is there.

    we only managed to get some back or middle office operations. A bank moves their tokyo operations to SG, only to move all out to India 2yrs later.

    SG really must not surrender to this anti-foreigner rhetoric.

  6. #36
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    Yup! It will be really exciting in this area. Waiting too!
    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    I believe in marina bay area.....just camp ard tat area!

  7. #37
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    Could be due to close proximity to the rich people in China. Singapore is more balance to serve both the rich from China and India.
    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    Singapore has failed to catch up with hk .... Unfortunately it seems to be true ...

    I know of a few banks moving a lot of staff from SG to HK, despite HK having higher office rental cost, expat housing cost, and pollution ! Why ? Because every other bank is there.

    we only managed to get some back or middle office operations. A bank moves their tokyo operations to SG, only to move all out to India 2yrs later.

    SG really must not surrender to this anti-foreigner rhetoric.
    Last edited by DC33_2008; 04-03-12 at 13:22.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    The fact that CCR price is narrowing compared to OCR signifies that Singapore has failed to catch up to HK as a Cosmopolitan and international city where the rich, power, famous, influential and successful businessmen & women will come to setup business and build their nest and create more jobs in Singapore?
    Oh my god! That is really bad for Singapore for the long-term!

    On the other hand, I also observe that the high $PSF in OCR doesn't mean the people living in OCR are getting richer, as we know that developers are all building mostly Mickey-mouse units of <700 sqft and even 3BRs units so small at <1000 sqft so that absolute quantum is <$1.5m when OCR are supposed to cater for general families and hence should instead be large (as people want to sacrifice convenient for the sake of larger size but this is not happening). Oh my god! The middle-income are not getting richer! That is really bad for Singapore for the long-term!

    I think the govt should:
    1) Get ride of 10% ABSD from discriminating against foreigners who want setup up nest here and bring money here to create jobs and make middle income become richer! May be foreigners buying properties >$3m and $2500 psf should be exempted from 10% ABSD since they are not
    I agree with welcoming that sort of "talent" in Singapore.

    Instead of doing that, our garmen have let in fresh grads and middle managers from other countries - to compete with our local talent. I think we need to put an end to our lax regulations on employment pass.

    Gone are the days when we have to learn from foreigners from Europe and US. Now they need to learn from Asians how to do things faster and be more effective (I don't mean cheaper). We should stop placing foreigners in key positions in our government agencies.

    If we hear complaints about lack of local talent for top positions, that's because our policies and beliefs here make people inclined to choosing a foreigner over a local. And once you put a foreigner in that position, he will bring over/favour foreigners over locals for new positions or for promotions.

  9. #39
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    Unfortunately they don't welcome them anymore, and slap them with 10% ABSD!

    Not only that, they allow these people you highlighted (branded as "PRs" as though they are any different from foreigners) to compete with citizens on public housing in terms of resale flats, and that is why HDB resale flats are now so expensive!
    So if people complain about expensive resale HDB flats, well, they should know who to look for to complain....

    Quote Originally Posted by evergreen
    I agree with welcoming that sort of "talent" in Singapore.

    Instead of doing that, our garmen have let in fresh grads and middle managers from other countries - to compete with our local talent. I think we need to put an end to our lax regulations on employment pass.

    Gone are the days when we have to learn from foreigners from Europe and US. Now they need to learn from Asians how to do things faster and be more effective (I don't mean cheaper). We should stop placing foreigners in key positions in our government agencies.

    If we hear complaints about lack of local talent for top positions, that's because our policies and beliefs here make people inclined to choosing a foreigner over a local. And once you put a foreigner in that position, he will bring over/favour foreigners over locals for new positions or for promotions.

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    It is not 4M loss BUT 5M loss. Actually i dun wan to share one, but see some of you guys so pathethic, so here goes:

    15,418,520 (BOUGHT )
    11,700,000 (SOLD )
    ==========
    3,718,520 (Capital LOSS )
    175,500 (agent comm est 1.5% only )
    20,000 (lawyer's fees est property> 2Mil )
    819,000 (est. GST & Msc est property > 2 Mil)
    120,000 ( Stamp Duty after appeal est property> 2Mil)
    200,000 (Bank's Facillity Penalty est assuming 50%@30years loans terminated less than 10years )
    ========================
    5,031,706 (ESTIMATED min LOSS)



    How I know? Guess..WOAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

    "Any $10Million property sold at a $1Million loss is actually a $2Million loss ": Famous Words by BJ21Trader.

    Good Luck.

    神龙股侠。
    Last edited by blackjack21trader; 05-03-12 at 05:49. Reason: Do NOT help the dumbs !

  11. #41
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    "It is very dangerous to buy property without knowing how to calculate the hiddened costs." Famous Words by BJ21T

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    This thread led me to recall an incident many years ago. A friend was so happy that he earned $100,000 in private property investment. This is because he sold at $100,000 above the bought price. I did not bear to tell him that he actually lost $10,000.

    WOAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

  13. #43
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    "Any profits you made in property investment, be prepared to share with all the agents of execution."- famous words by BJ21t

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    " A fine day is in the real estate investor's garden, but a fined day is always in the property trader's one."- famous words by BJ21t

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    Err.. Why pay stamp duty? Looked at the buying and selling period,the seller is subjected to pay? Just curious, why you need to pay 819k for est. gst &misc est property? What is that cost?. Agent free is 1% normally.


    Quote Originally Posted by blackjack21trader
    It is not 4M loss BUT 5M loss. Actually i dun wan to share one, but see some of you guys so pathethic, so here goes:

    15,418,520 (BOUGHT )
    11,700,000 (SOLD )
    ==========
    3,718,520 (Capital LOSS )
    175,500 (agent comm est 1.5% only )
    20,000 (lawyer's fees est property> 2Mil )
    819,000 (est. GST & Msc est property > 2 Mil)
    120,000 ( Stamp Duty after appeal est property> 2Mil)
    200,000 (Bank's Facillity Penalty est assuming 50%@30years loans terminated less than 10years )
    ========================
    5,031,706 (ESTIMATED min LOSS)



    How I know? Guess..WOAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

    "Any $10Million property sold at a $1Million loss is actually a $2Million loss ": Famous Words by BJ21Trader.

    Good Luck.

    神龙股侠。

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    Quote Originally Posted by felicia_sg
    Err.. Why pay stamp duty? Looked at the buying and selling period,the seller is subjected to pay? Just curious, why you need to pay 819k for est. gst &misc est property? What is that cost?. Agent free is 1% normally.
    even comm 1% and no seller duty, it is still a 5M loss, sister

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    Assuming no bank penalty, what's that GST and misc item about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kane
    Assuming no bank penalty, what's that GST and misc item about?
    assuming owner is so rich with cash and no sellers stamp duty..no bank loans...no nothing..the loss is still 5M.

    Note: Stamp Duties have to be paid on all purchases. It is not deductable from the purchase price. Even if you got the property as a transfer.All miscellanous costs like property taxes have to be accounted for- this includes GSTs on all taxable supplies, utilities in the residence and the leases. GSTs incurred included furnitures, costs of maintainenaces...etc..etc

    I have the worksheet for all the hiddned costs. But I am not sharing here.

    You guys really any-o-how hamtam properties without calculating the hiddened costs as stated above that have been bleeding you dry.

    for properties below 2 million, the costs is negligible because your other income like salary tend to hide the amount. However, if your property value is more than $5million, that is where the costs started to bite into your wallet.

    WOAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
    Last edited by blackjack21trader; 05-03-12 at 08:01.

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    Let your humble brother suggest you guys go back and dig out your old property transaction. Then add these costs to it:

    1) Stamp Duty paid upon purchase
    2) Property Tax paid until you sold .
    3) Utility costs/mainenance costs if any
    4) All the GST paid to any items that are used to maintain the property including leases
    5) Your bank loan interests.
    6) Your loss of interest/dividends if the money is put into fixed deposit/fixed income otherwise.

    Have a shock.

    Good Luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackjack21trader
    Let your humble brother suggest you guys go back and dig out your old property transaction. Then add these costs to it:

    1) Stamp Duty paid upon purchase
    2) Property Tax paid until you sold .
    3) Utility costs/mainenance costs if any
    4) All the GST paid to any items that are used to maintain the property including leases
    5) Your bank loan interests.
    6) Your loss of interest if the money is put into fixed deposit.

    Have a shock.

    Good Luck.
    Heh Thats why i factor-ed in SD as part of my purchase price so i'll always remember my purchase price as a higher cost. The rest are costs that i'll cover from rental yield. thus my nett yield will be much lower

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    Dear bro thank you for highlighting these additional costs.

    Let the property flippers become extinct! They only help to contribute to nation building. The big winner is....the govt! Collect stamp duty, GST etc etc etc

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    In property investment, say conservatively a $1million property. You can breakeven only if you sold at $1.1million. Once it dropped to your purchase price, the losses get amplified with every $50,000 price decrease.

    So, if you have any friends who told you they earned $100,000 in property investment- think again. Are the costs actually being hiddened from their every day salary income ? Because the losses is not apparent when you have a BIG fixed regular income coming in every month to hide the losses.

    That is how property traders died during market crash in 1997 and 2004.

    How I know? Guess.

    WOAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAh

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    Anyone who flips within 4 years ssd, is like feeding the govt free

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackjack21trader
    In property investment, say conservatively a $1million property. You can breakeven only if you sold at $1.1million. Once it dropped to your purchase price, the losses get amplified with every $50,000 price decrease.

    So, if you have any friends who told you they earned $100,000 in property investment- think again. Are the costs actually being hiddened from their every day salary income ? Because the losses is not apparent when you have a BIG fixed regular income coming in every month to hide the losses.

    How I know? Guess.

    WOAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAh
    Haha, it sounds better when u tell ppl ur gross profit ma. "Wah i bought 1mil sell 1.5mil" naturally everyone will think he earned half a million dollars

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    Quote Originally Posted by price
    Anyone who flips within 4 years ssd, is like feeding the govt free
    yes, brother price and sister chia are both correct. Now with the CM5, the losses is even more greatly amplified many times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by price
    Heh Thats why i factor-ed in SD as part of my purchase price so i'll always remember my purchase price as a higher cost. The rest are costs that i'll cover from rental yield. thus my nett yield will be much lower
    Yes,brother price. That is the correct way to do it. You are a clever brother. Unfortunately, only 1 out of every 50 property investors I encountered do this homework. They are dreaming in their own dreamland. Only after many years later, when their fixed income stopped will they realise they have been running up on their expenses. This is also true for some very rich relatives I have.

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    not so much overheads la....

    if no lock in, where got bank loan penalty once loan fully disbursed? only got clawback lor

    1mil ppty, about 50k (5%) overheads if sell after TOP

    so last time flipper can flip once got 10% gross profit......half goes to other's pocket

    during 06-07, flippers dun take bank loan one lor.....deferred payment wat

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    not so much overheads la....

    if no lock in, where got bank loan penalty once loan fully disbursed? only got clawback lor

    1mil ppty, about 50k (5%) overheads if sell after TOP

    so last time flipper can flip once got 10% gross profit......half goes to other's pocket

    during 06-07, flippers dun take bank loan one lor.....deferred payment wat
    oh yes. thanks for correcting me. I totally forgot about the deferred payment scheme and the new no lock-in loans . 5% overheads I agree but only if the flipper is fast mah like selling the OTP only without taking over the physical asset...but now can still flip meh ??? WOAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackjack21trader
    oh yes. thanks for correcting me. I totally forgot about the deferred payment scheme and the new no lock-in loans . 5% overheads I agree but only if the flipper is fast mah like selling the OTP only without taking over the physical asset...but now can still flip meh ??? WOAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
    after 14th Jan 2011, no more flippers oredi liao la.....they become prata man instead oredi.....wakakaka

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    even simplifying it:

    loss 3,718,520
    agent comm 175,000
    stamp duty when purchased 457,156

    loss is already $4,350,676.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackjack21trader
    It is not 4M loss BUT 5M loss. Actually i dun wan to share one, but see some of you guys so pathethic, so here goes:

    15,418,520 (BOUGHT )
    11,700,000 (SOLD )
    ==========
    3,718,520 (Capital LOSS )
    175,500 (agent comm est 1.5% only )
    20,000 (lawyer's fees est property> 2Mil )
    819,000 (est. GST & Msc est property > 2 Mil)
    120,000 ( Stamp Duty after appeal est property> 2Mil)
    200,000 (Bank's Facillity Penalty est assuming 50%@30years loans terminated less than 10years )
    ========================
    5,031,706 (ESTIMATED min LOSS)



    How I know? Guess..WOAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

    "Any $10Million property sold at a $1Million loss is actually a $2Million loss ": Famous Words by BJ21Trader.

    Good Luck.

    神龙股侠。

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