A few CCR transactions sold at a loss (reported in The Edge)

[DC33_2008]

I have to correct my earlier posting. It is people who Live in CCR and not CCR owners.

you should not presume that CCR property are all own by people living in CCR as there are many friends and relative that I know who live in OCR but own do properties in CCR, and that include landed property as well.

[Ringo33]

I have to correct my earlier posting. It is people who Live in CCR and not CCR owners.

There are many levels within CCR as well, starting from sub $1m apartment, all the way to something that is worth $50m and above.

[thomastansb]

Also, we need to look at a basket of transactions. Just because 1 owner sell at a loss or at 20% discount, it doesn't mean prices have dropped. We should look at 1 year, or at least 6 months worth of transactions before we come to a conclusion. Like during 2008/09 crisis, there are thousand of transactions dropping as each day passes. That is called dropping. But now, we see 1 or 2 here and there every month, that is nothing. It is normal in fact.

Only ignorant fool will immediately come to such conclusion.

I personally know of numerous cases where the reported transaction price is at the low end or even below market rate is because of 1 & main reason: Decoupling of ownership!

What is "Decoupling of ownership"?
Very simple, the property is owned by 2 or more individuals (husband and wife is very common, though could also be siblings, children to fathers/mothers etc), and they are decoupling so that the other party (wife/husband/brothers/sisters/children) is clean and does not own any property so that they can buy another one without all sort of ABSD! Simple as that! In the case of "Decoupling", the lower the reported transacted price, the lower the stamp duties they need to pay!

Obviously, "Decoupling of ownership" is just 1 reason. There are others who report low transacted prices for other reasons, such as parents passing properties over to their children, people freeing up cash flow for better investment deals (hence no qualm about selling at a loss for better deal & return). However, such deals are only available to High Networth individuals. Is it any wonder we see more of the high-end high absolute priced properties being transacted at lower prices?






Originally Posted by bargain hunter View Post
1st loss for Belle Vue Residences

#03-30 2045 sq ft
Bought 2 Oct 2008 2248psf
Sold 30 Sep 2013 1858psf

-17.3%

as reference, #02-30 sold in nov 2010 at 2332psf and #04-30 sold in Jun 2010 at 2263psf, both also 2045 sq ft.

[walkthetiger]

We should look at 1 year, or at least 6 months worth of transactions before we come to a conclusion.

This thread was created sometimes back providing much evidence to show this CCR’s basket has indeed dropped...

[mosaic]

Purchased one in 2010, it is still looking for buyer willing to buy at my already break-even price...hah...

When price going down hill I may lose from those bought in recent years, but I will save when buy later.

wow which area did you buy in 2010?

[banker82]

Also, we need to look at a basket of transactions. Just because 1 owner sell at a loss or at 20% discount, it doesn't mean prices have dropped. We should look at 1 year, or at least 6 months worth of transactions before we come to a conclusion. Like during 2008/09 crisis, there are thousand of transactions dropping as each day passes. That is called dropping. But now, we see 1 or 2 here and there every month, that is nothing. It is normal in fact.

Well said. That is very true, being somebody in my late 40s, I can tell you this is nothing compared to the asian financial crisis. Even though I may not be as lucky as some to have owned multiple properties, I can safely say that if any of you want to sell any property in CCR at20% discount, please let me know, I have many friends who are waiting on the sidelines for such an opportunity.

The landscape today vs pre AFC has changed dramatically over a few reasons; 1) govt has insulated the property market while safeguarding any potential crashes, 2) national affluence has increased substantially and 3) big foreign ownership. So you might have to think with the overhang supply in the next 1-2 years, are we gonna see >20% correction?

[banker82]

Well said. That is very true, being somebody in my late 40s, I can tell you this is nothing compared to the asian financial crisis. Even though I may not be as lucky as some to have owned multiple properties, I can safely say that if any of you want to sell any property in CCR at20% discount, please let me know, I have many friends who are waiting on the sidelines for such an opportunity.

The landscape today vs pre AFC has changed dramatically over a few reasons; 1) govt has insulated the property market while safeguarding any potential crashes, 2) national affluence has increased substantially and 3) big foreign ownership. So you might have to think with the overhang supply in the next 1-2 years, are we gonna see >20% correction?

Oh I forgot, you can continue to buy S&P 500 (instead of real asset like properties).. Its making record highs everyday, even though there are more profit guidance and warnings from companies

[hopeful]

.... I can safely say that if any of you want to sell any property in CCR at20% discount, please let me know, I have many friends who are waiting on the sidelines for such an opportunity.
.....?

i think your friends talk very big le.
are they waiting forever for the 20% discount?

2009. waiting for 20% discount.
lets say rivergate 1000psf. they waiting for somebody to sell at 800psf?

2013 still waiting for 20% discount?
i think developer already give discount 20% for scotts square as posted by bargain hunter. please inform your friends about the 20% discount.

[walkthetiger]

wow which area did you buy in 2010?

CCR.......

[amk]

CCR owners are playing at different level and playground as OCR owners.

to make every one happy, let's just say, "real" CCR owners, not those MMs or barely can afford ones, are playing totally diff games. An OCR property involving a few hundred K equity looking for yield, is really not interesting for these group of people. Just a few products or high yield bonds can already achieve the same yield, with less hassle, zero tax, and with better leverage and liquidity.

and to hopeful: to uplift your "depressing" mood in CCR, I do see some interesting deals even at this climate:

30 Sep 2013 10 THE BALMORAL 14 Balmoral Park #XX-XX Condominium Freehold 7,642 1,570 12,000,000

This is one of the old gems in D10 that I really like

[bargain hunter]

i m not familiar with the balmoral. are there many such 7000+ sq ft units? i still see the adverts for similar units even after this caveat was lodged.

to make every one happy, let's just say, "real" CCR owners, not those MMs or barely can afford ones, are playing totally diff games. An OCR property involving a few hundred K equity looking for yield, is really not interesting for these group of people. Just a few products or high yield bonds can already achieve the same yield, with less hassle, zero tax, and with better leverage and liquidity.

and to hopeful: to uplift your "depressing" mood in CCR, I do see some interesting deals even at this climate:

30 Sep 2013 10 THE BALMORAL 14 Balmoral Park #XX-XX Condominium Freehold 7,642 1,570 12,000,000

This is one of the old gems in D10 that I really like

[thomastansb]

How many has dropped vs how many has risen?

This thread was created sometimes back providing much evidence to show this CCR’s basket has indeed dropped...

[Ringo33]

How many has dropped vs how many has risen?

A good indicator is actually the amount of discount developers are giving to clear their slow moving stock in CCR.

[amk]

i m not familiar with the balmoral. are there many such 7000+ sq ft units? i still see the adverts for similar units even after this caveat was lodged.

these are townhouses. about a dozen of them. SARS time was only selling at 3mils. THAT was really a bargain.

[bargain hunter]

SARS mah. the other guys here r talking about post 2007 it seems.

these are townhouses. about a dozen of them. SARS time was only selling at 3mils. THAT was really a bargain.

[walkthetiger]

How many has dropped vs how many has risen?

Numbers of CCR sold at a loss seem on the rise, but numbers of CCR sold at a gain don’t seem healthy in coming years.

[bargain hunter]

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...aterson-suites

if transacted, this will be a new psf low for paterson suites. anyone can help?

[bargain hunter]

but propertyguru still no one advertise at that price for scotts square leh. dun think developer has cut price for that one.

i think your friends talk very big le.
are they waiting forever for the 20% discount?

2009. waiting for 20% discount.
lets say rivergate 1000psf. they waiting for somebody to sell at 800psf?

2013 still waiting for 20% discount?
i think developer already give discount 20% for scotts square as posted by bargain hunter. please inform your friends about the 20% discount.

[bargain hunter]

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...eden-at-grange

cliveden at grange unit also seeking record low psf for the project.

but rental is at a suicidal 8.9k till apr 2015.

[relax88]

How many here got ready cash for that 4 million purchase or how many here qualified for bank loan?

[bargain hunter]

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...rson-residence

paterson residence penthouse asking 10.8m. buyer bought at 10m in mar 2007.

[bargain hunter]

a lot of bros here said the CCR big unit buyers are different league right? no need loan right?

How many here got ready cash for that 4 million purchase or how many here qualified for bank loan?

[relax88]

I only qualified for hdb...so just thinking how anyone got so much money

[hopeful]

I only qualified for hdb...so just thinking how anyone got so much money

Dont worry, relax aja.

[bargain hunter]

a simplistic answer would be businessmen, investors and foreigners have the money.

I only qualified for hdb...so just thinking how anyone got so much money

[bargain hunter]

ok ok, there are also many highly paid salaried employees in all the different industries, even government jobs who have the money to buy a $4m home.

[stalingrad]

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...rson-residence

paterson residence penthouse asking 10.8m. buyer bought at 10m in mar 2007.

Someone would say that the buyer paid less than 10m in 2007 (the price in the caveat is overstated), and Teddy would argue that the owners is trying to sell it to his son or daughter or whomever is related to the seller.

[hutsutau]

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...rson-residence

paterson residence penthouse asking 10.8m. buyer bought at 10m in mar 2007.

bad sign. the rich are living singapore, taking away from singapore

[dtrax]

The 2rm unit at Paterson Residence already close to $900 per month condo fee, I wonder how much the monthly fee for the PH unit

[Ringo33]

2 ARDMORE PARK

Bought Jul 07 $2916psf
Sold Oct 12 $2,950psf