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Thread: Bangkok/Jakarta property markets are hottest in the world in Q2 2012

  1. #1
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    Default Bangkok/Jakarta property markets are hottest in the world in Q2 2012

    JAKARTA: Luxury property prices in Jakarta during IIQ/2012 rose 28.5% compared to the same period last year.

    The increase was the second highest in the world, after Bangkok luxury property prices which jumped 28.8% in the second quarter this year compared with last year's second quarter.
    Ride at your own risk !!!

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    I looked into Indo market before, just simply not for forigners as ownership issue is very complicated.

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    Khaw can now proudly say that SG property price growth of 2% for HDB, 1% for PC means everything is under control
    Ride at your own risk !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom_opera
    JAKARTA: Luxury property prices in Jakarta during IIQ/2012 rose 28.5% compared to the same period last year.

    The increase was the second highest in the world, after Bangkok luxury property prices which jumped 28.8% in the second quarter this year compared with last year's second quarter.
    When look at the currency depreciation, it isnt tat fantastic.

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    Jkt property is hot, my friend bought an empty plot of land (no buildings) in an elite residential complex for 800k in 2010. PRice has now risen by 100% by 2 years.

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    The population of jakarta is 12 million. There is a shortage of housing. The quantum average is closing to singapore price quantum. Now its no surprise to see 1 million sgd for a house in jakarta. If singapore property get any cheaper, they will come to singapore to buy all of our properties. Our price is definitely not a bubble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricade
    Jkt property is hot, my friend bought an empty plot of land (no buildings) in an elite residential complex for 800k in 2010. PRice has now risen by 100% by 2 years.
    If there are illegal squatters on that land, lan lan... Burn some moreoney

    Indo property not for faint hearted, singaporeans too 'straight' aka gulible to survive investment there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leesg123
    If there are illegal squatters on that land, lan lan... Burn some moreoney

    Indo property not for faint hearted, singaporeans too 'straight' aka gulible to survive investment there.
    To buy indo properties must go thru proxy. Foreigners cannot buy. They are now looking at the law to ammend that but no dates given. Based on memory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indomie
    The population of jakarta is 12 million. There is a shortage of housing. The quantum average is closing to singapore price quantum. Now its no surprise to see 1 million sgd for a house in jakarta. If singapore property get any cheaper, they will come to singapore to buy all of our properties. Our price is definitely not a bubble.
    compare psf/psm with equivalent properties.
    Singapore properties psf/psm are more expensive.

    dont compare townhouse, terrace with some cheap condo in singapore la.
    Last edited by hopeful; 05-10-12 at 09:46.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leesg123
    If there are illegal squatters on that land, lan lan... Burn some moreoney

    Indo property not for faint hearted, singaporeans too 'straight' aka gulible to survive investment there.
    If really elite complex, then dont worry, no illegal squatters.
    If land by the roadside and outside residential complex, then do be careful.

    and do be careful, developers have many tricks, even local indonesians are caught. Developers have forged, misrepresented their land titles before. They have leased land from the township and misrepresented as their own.

    I heard of 1 developer trying to sell their project in Bali to foreigners, as locals are aware of the dubious title of their residential project.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful
    when you mention $1mil house in jakarta, is it landed or non-landed?
    compare psf/psm with equivalent properties.
    Singapore properties psf/psm are more expensive.
    Hopeful, you indonesian right. Indo prices shot up more than Singapore over past few years. The landed near Indah Kapuk Golf Club very beautiful with security. Every trip, I will play at Kapuk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful
    compare psf/psm with equivalent properties.
    Singapore properties psf/psm are more expensive.

    dont compare townhouse, terrace with some cheap condo in singapore la.
    When I say quantum average is something like the most common type of dweller. Let's say in sg is a 5 bed HDB costing 400k, in jakarta it would be like 150m2 terrace house costing 400k in equivalent. 5 years ago such terrace house only costing 100k sgd. That's what I mean by closing in.

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    If I were to buy a sg property, let's say 1million. I will pay 200k for the downpayment and invest 200k in jakarta/bangkok property. Wait 2-3 years when it double then bring back the money, pay off the debt. In effect I got 20% discount.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indomie
    When I say quantum average is something like the most common type of dweller. Let's say in sg is a 5 bed HDB costing 400k, in jakarta it would be like 150m2 terrace house costing 400k in equivalent. 5 years ago such terrace house only costing 100k sgd. That's what I mean by closing in.
    I dont think should compare like that.
    shouldnt you compare 150m2 terrace house indonesia with equivalent 150m2 terrace house Singapore? or a 1000sqm bungalow in both countries.

    HDB is public housing for the masses, and so shouldnt we compare HDB with Rusunami (Rumah Susun Sederhana Milik)

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful
    I dont think should compare like that.
    shouldnt you compare 150m2 terrace house indonesia with equivalent 150m2 terrace house Singapore? or a 1000sqm bungalow in both countries.

    HDB is public housing for the masses, and so shouldnt we compare HDB with Rusunami (Rumah Susun Sederhana Milik)
    U must be indonesian

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    Quote Originally Posted by indomie
    U must be indonesian
    You must be a non Indonesian. For you to go into Indo property market, your faith in your indonesian friend must be very great. Indonesian law will protect the indonesians', so be careful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indomie
    U must be indonesian
    what has nationality got to do with the discussion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful
    what has nationality got to do with the discussion?
    So that you may be able to point out the pros and cons of foreign home ownership in your home country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chestnut
    You must be a non Indonesian. For you to go into Indo property market, your faith in your indonesian friend must be very great. Indonesian law will protect the indonesians', so be careful.
    I have indo wife, she is the one who do all the buying. The point is... Its not that we can or cannot buy there, but its what they can buy here. With huge increase in their property, their appetite for sg properties will also increase. Now they have more money to spend. Jakarta increase is what will happen if sg gov didn't put in place CMs. But make no mistake, sg property is your main target. If u invest in jakarta/bangkok, its only because u want to leverage on your sg property purchase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indomie
    I have indo wife, she is the one who do all the buying. The point is... Its not that we can or cannot buy there, but its what they can buy here. With huge increase in their property, their appetite for sg properties will also increase. Now they have more money to spend. Jakarta increase is what will happen if sg gov didn't put in place CMs. But make no mistake, sg property is your main target. If u invest in jakarta/bangkok, its only because u want to leverage on your sg property purchase.
    Indo property is unique. Land is abundant. Seller will quote prices that could be ridiculous and they wont budge. They rather let the house be empty, rot then sell anything below their asking price.

    Also note that only indonesians can buy hak milik (freehold). Even if the law change, the ownership of land is still going to be leasehold (short one) for foreigners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indomie
    I have indo wife, she is the one who do all the buying. The point is... Its not that we can or cannot buy there, but its what they can buy here. With huge increase in their property, their appetite for sg properties will also increase. Now they have more money to spend. Jakarta increase is what will happen if sg gov didn't put in place CMs. But make no mistake, sg property is your main target. If u invest in jakarta/bangkok, its only because u want to leverage on your sg property purchase.
    sorry dont get your point about the sentence.

    lets say 10 indonesians have alternative to buy either Singapore or Indonesia properties. They see "oooo, I can make money from Jakarta property".

    so 10 indonesians buy 10 houses from developer in indonesia. so developer get the money and do you think the developer will buy 10 houses in singapore?
    Money for Singapore properties is removed from the market.

    Now if the same 10 indonesian buy 10 houses from individuals.
    Now these 10 sellers will have the choice to buy in Singapore and Indonesia, which is back to square 1 - there are still 10 indonesians to buy properties either in indonesia or singapore.

    The nature of bubble is, the original 10 indonesian sellers will reinvest their proceeds back in indonesian properties.

    So I dont see how they have more money to spend in Singapore properties.

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    I am keen to get Jakarta development. Is it worthwhile and wise to invest in there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful
    sorry dont get your point about the sentence.

    lets say 10 indonesians have alternative to buy either Singapore or Indonesia properties. They see "oooo, I can make money from Jakarta property".

    so 10 indonesians buy 10 houses from developer in indonesia. so developer get the money and do you think the developer will buy 10 houses in singapore?
    Money for Singapore properties is removed from the market.

    Now if the same 10 indonesian buy 10 houses from individuals.
    Now these 10 sellers will have the choice to buy in Singapore and Indonesia, which is back to square 1 - there are still 10 indonesians to buy properties either in indonesia or singapore.

    The nature of bubble is, the original 10 indonesian sellers will reinvest their proceeds back in indonesian properties.

    So I dont see how they have more money to spend in Singapore properties.
    I don't really understand your argument. However its simpler to say that it used to be only really rich indo can afford sg property because the price gap is so huge. But now the price gap not so huge in term of quantum because jakarta local price has increase a lot more. If u are indo, u know that FEO, wing tai, etc advertise quite heavily everyday on the newspaper and have exhibition every weekend at the hotel. The point is "we love jakarta capital gain" but "we love singapore rental yield even more". One wise man says "U can flirt with jakarta/bangkok, but must marry singapore".

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    Quote Originally Posted by indomie
    I have indo wife, she is the one who do all the buying. The point is... Its not that we can or cannot buy there, but its what they can buy here. With huge increase in their property, their appetite for sg properties will also increase. Now they have more money to spend. Jakarta increase is what will happen if sg gov didn't put in place CMs. But make no mistake, sg property is your main target. If u invest in jakarta/bangkok, its only because u want to leverage on your sg property purchase.
    Oh, IC. Indo prices shot up thru the roof. More then Singapore. Indo likes orchard road.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yowetan
    I am keen to get Jakarta development. Is it worthwhile and wise to invest in there?
    Foreigner is not allowed to buy jakarta property. U must get your current wife permission to get a indo mistress first. Then we talk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indomie
    Foreigner is not allowed to buy jakarta property. U must get your current wife permission to get a indo mistress first. Then we talk.
    Good one. Get indo mistress also tough. Indo law protect Indonesians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indomie
    Foreigner is not allowed to buy jakarta property. U must get your current wife permission to get a indo mistress first. Then we talk.
    Hi. Thanks for the information.

    No wonder there are many Singaporean marrying Indonesia wives in Batam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indomie
    I don't really understand your argument. However its simpler to say that it used to be only really rich indo can afford sg property because the price gap is so huge. But now the price gap not so huge in term of quantum because jakarta local price has increase a lot more. If u are indo, u know that FEO, wing tai, etc advertise quite heavily everyday on the newspaper and have exhibition every weekend at the hotel. The point is "we love jakarta capital gain" but "we love singapore rental yield even more". One wise man says "U can flirt with jakarta/bangkok, but must marry singapore".
    it seems to me that Indonesians are buying properties in Indonesia instead, hence CCR properties arent moving that much.

    From a speculator point of view, it is easier for a property to double/triple from a low base than from a high base.

    gross rental yield for jakarta, singapore are similar. except when you take into account their mortgage rates, jakarta will have negative net yield. Hence for Indonesian properties, one can only hope for capital gains.

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    foreigner interested in indonesian property -> please dont bother getting the apartments / industrial land there unless you need for own use. Leasehold is only 20yrs no point purchasing these for investment.

    for indonesian nationality, they can purchase land title. For the past few years land prices have been increasing quite rapidly and the market in jakarta is getting very expensive.

    we have a few GCBs in Menteng area asking for 10-20million SGD. you can purchase 1 and have politician neighbour. Kelapa gading houses asking for 1-1.5m SGD now for 2000sqft of land.

    Jakarta is now no longer a city for the faint hearted and light pockets..

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    o ya, not to mention local indonesian 'chinese' mentality.. no need $, then they will ask for really ridiculous prices. haha.. no buyer never mind just hold.




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