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Thread: BOND THREAD

  1. #2581
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    Mar 2009
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    Yes, you are right! CCR private properties had already crashed 30%, what more do you want when OCR private properties has not dropped? we would need to see OCR private property prices drop 30% or more from their THOUSAND YEARS HISTORICAL PEAK before there is any more drop in CCR private property prices!

    But my life and investment don't only revolve around properties and their prices, and my liquid assets (money not in properties) are earning much better profits from other investment avenues!

    People should just go to sleep for next 5 years about property prices (because OCR prices likely drop >30% and CCR will not go anywhere)!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Yah already depreciated 20-30%, quite impossible to depreciate further.

  2. #2582

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    For the past few months . Most of the bond price is really selling at a premium. Even the new Wing Tai SGD perp bond is price at 4.08% with
    a bond feature of deferral interest payment. FYI, One of the Wing Wai straight bond SGD 4% which is due 2021. Now trading 103+.
    Have been trying to buy short dated bond like Banyan tree , Centurion & other. But no seller or price too high & therefore too Xpensive to buy
    Regret did not outright to buy seagate 5.875% long dated bond when it was @92. Now trading at 100.

    Just only recently, I saw a opportunity to buy Wanda 4.875% USD bond due Nov 2018 @100. It was > 102+ before the speculation that banks were issuing notices that they will sell Wanda bonds. It went as low as 98+ before it recovered to 100. Since it is a short dated bond (Nov 2018). I decided to take the risk to buy.

    Now monitoring at GLP 3.875% USD bond due 2025. Trading @ 95+. It was 102+ before GIC decide to sell away GLP.

  3. #2583

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    Thank you. Pls share more.

  4. #2584
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    10,738

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    GLP 3.875% USD bond due 2025 (or 8 years later) at price of 95 or YTM of 4.5% is pretty expensive even for an investment grade bond............


    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584 View Post
    For the past few months . Most of the bond price is really selling at a premium. Even the new Wing Tai SGD perp bond is price at 4.08% with
    a bond feature of deferral interest payment. FYI, One of the Wing Wai straight bond SGD 4% which is due 2021. Now trading 103+.
    Have been trying to buy short dated bond like Banyan tree , Centurion & other. But no seller or price too high & therefore too Xpensive to buy
    Regret did not outright to buy seagate 5.875% long dated bond when it was @92. Now trading at 100.

    Just only recently, I saw a opportunity to buy Wanda 4.875% USD bond due Nov 2018 @100. It was > 102+ before the speculation that banks were issuing notices that they will sell Wanda bonds. It went as low as 98+ before it recovered to 100. Since it is a short dated bond (Nov 2018). I decided to take the risk to buy.

    Now monitoring at GLP 3.875% USD bond due 2025. Trading @ 95+. It was 102+ before GIC decide to sell away GLP.

  5. #2585
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    10,738

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    Recently, strangely bond prices are creeping up............. It seems people are shifting money into buying bonds!

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    GLP 3.875% USD bond due 2025 (or 8 years later) at price of 95 or YTM of 4.5% is pretty expensive even for an investment grade bond............

  6. #2586

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    Because nothing much to invest. Property got ABSD, Equities also cheong liao.

  7. #2587

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    Quote Originally Posted by stl67 View Post
    Because nothing much to invest. Property got ABSD, Equities also cheong liao.
    district 29 not many know

  8. #2588

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    2017 is also quite good year for me as a bond investor . Bank Coco perp bond was the very big surprise. It rally almost by 8% since last yr.

    My two lots ($500k) NOL 5.9% which is due Nov 2019 bond was called on 8th Dec17. The early redemption Price was @102.2.
    Immediately, I switched to a higher risk junk bond PIL 7.25% due Dec18. Hope every will be fine. There is a forecast of 4 US rate
    hike for 2018 which may affect the bond price.

  9. #2589

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    2017 was a very surprise for bond investors especially bank Coco bond that give a decent return of >8%+. A good return of $197k.
    2018 could be the end of the bull run for bond investors who are leveraging. The borrowing cost for USD was as low as 0.9% & SGD 1.12% in 2010. Coming 2018, the borrowing cost should be >2.5% for both USD & SGD. Simply too risky to leverage. Need to find a alternative income .

    If you will to invest into unit trust since 2016. Most of the unit trust return should be >20%.
    But for those invested in equity, the return varies from low of 1% to high of >30%. Investors invested into yesteryear stocks like SPH , Telco, Singpost etc. The return can be negative. Bank stocks has a fantastic return of >30%. Reit >15%.

  10. #2590
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    10,738

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    US banks stocks had a great run! So are material stocks (like Vale, up >200%)!
    2018 will be a great year for US stocks with Trump's corporate tax cuts!

    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584 View Post
    2017 was a very surprise for bond investors especially bank Coco bond that give a decent return of >8%+. A good return of $197k.
    2018 could be the end of the bull run for bond investors who are leveraging. The borrowing cost for USD was as low as 0.9% & SGD 1.12% in 2010. Coming 2018, the borrowing cost should be >2.5% for both USD & SGD. Simply too risky to leverage. Need to find a alternative income .

    If you will to invest into unit trust since 2016. Most of the unit trust return should be >20%.
    But for those invested in equity, the return varies from low of 1% to high of >30%. Investors invested into yesteryear stocks like SPH , Telco, Singpost etc. The return can be negative. Bank stocks has a fantastic return of >30%. Reit >15%.

  11. #2591

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    Wow, like that property is it going to crash next or Bullllllllll.

  12. #2592

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Wow, like that property is it going to crash next or Bullllllllll.
    The housing mortgage loan borrowing rate is quite different from Bond borrowing rate.
    My mortgage loan rate is 1% (next yr 1.4%) while my bond SG borrowing rate is 2.15% .
    USD is 2.25% (2017).

    As long as property investors with a stable job are not over leverage on the ppty with some buffer cash to cater for any unforseen circumstance like job loss, major illness etc. They should be ok. Marginal ppty investors should stay out from huge investment such as ppty which must have long term holding power.

  13. #2593

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584 View Post
    The housing mortgage loan borrowing rate is quite different from Bond borrowing rate.
    My mortgage loan rate is 1% (next yr 1.4%) while my bond SG borrowing rate is 2.15% .
    USD is 2.25% (2017).

    As long as property investors with a stable job are not over leverage on the ppty with some buffer cash to cater for any unforseen circumstance like job loss, major illness etc. They should be ok. Marginal ppty investors should stay out from huge investment such as ppty which must have long term holding power.
    I was having my lunch when I overheard a group of unlces (age 65 to 75) talking about old condo. One more experience uncle
    said that never in his 30 yrs as a ppty investor the old condos were enbloc at such a large scale at such a short period of time.
    The govt only just give a warning of potential ppty investor not to over leverage. This is a move by the govt to create continous economy growth till 2020 to 2021 to be ready for the next election & hopefully PAP has a good election result by then. Most of the old condo which got the potential to be enboc. The price has moved up by > 20% since 2016.


    Experience uncle said
    ==============
    Old condo mandrain garden at east coast was selling @ $1.4m in 2016. It was transacted @ $1.7m in 2017. He said Laguna park should be successfully enbloc by this year. Netpune court will take about 3 yrs to get it enbloc. There are 9 potential old condo to be enbloc in east coast area. He rest assured his friend that his leasehold ppty (cant rent out) which he intended to sell at $1.2m (bought @$1.1m+) should not be a problem in the next coming 6-12 mths.


    I went twice to Ocean park condo (2000pfs @$2.1m to $2.2m) to view with my friend. I tell him just buy & keep it as he got tons of cash avail but did not buy as he is not prepared to pay extra ABSD 7%. I told to my wife about buying Ocean park condo but she is totally not interested at all as it is too old & ugly. Now there is no seller at all.

    My other friend was hestiating in offering (@$1.8m to $1.9m) the very run down old condo around Thomson area just early 2017. He regetted as the owner now asking price is $2.5m to $2.6m. His younger brother has a high paid job (for 20 yrs) & still single (40+). I whatapp him a few D15 ppty to buy in the last few years.Still does not want to buy a private ppty to invest or stay. He even went to view the Rivergate (selling @ 1400psf) with my friend during the 2009 crisis. He did not buy. Now living with his father in a 3rm HDB flat.


    My lady friend bought 2 units at laguna park (ave $1.3m+) just a few year back as there is a high potential enbloc. One of the unit is under her old father name (escape the 7% ABSD) which she paid in full cash. It was rented out .She will likely to make >$2m if it get enbloc. Again my wife is totally not interested at all.


    I have applied for the Chip eng seng bond IPO (4.75% due 2020 & 4.9% due 2022) but did not get it. I will buy if it drop close to 100.


  14. #2594

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    Vic,
    you are already so good in bond and other financial instruments investment. dont come and invest in properties lar.. give people like us a chance lar.. LOL.

  15. #2595

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    Appreciate any comment on Hyflux 6% CPS# and Hyflux 6% PerCapSec#. Can buy? If yes, which is better?

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