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Thread: BOND THREAD

  1. #421

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    Oh. i see, HF is hong fok.

    Vic, i do own some hf shares...whats your take? tks

  2. #422

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    Quote Originally Posted by Werther
    Oh. i see, HF is hong fok.

    Vic, i do own some hf shares...whats your take? tks
    Ezion postpones new bond issue. Cheung Kong perp bond below par on the 1st day of trading. Look like market is more cautious now.

    I think better be more cautious. I believe HF is now taking the opportunities to get very cheap money from the retail through bond. If they will to borrow from bank, the interest rate will be very high. No recommendation for this HF bond. Be patience, wait for a big correction & U may get better bond price from capland , capitalmall , Lippomall etc etc.

    Dont any how buy high yield bond like Aspial , HF unless U hv insiders info about them & hv confident that the default risk is very low.


    rdgs,
    Vic

    rdgs,
    Vic

  3. #423

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584
    Ezion postpones new bond issue. Cheung Kong perp bond below par on the 1st day of trading. Look like market is more cautious now.

    I think better be more cautious. I believe HF is now taking the opportunities to get very cheap money from the retail through bond. If they will to borrow from bank, the interest rate will be very high. No recommendation for this HF bond. Be patience, wait for a big correction & U may get better bond price from capland , capitalmall , Lippomall etc etc.

    Dont any how buy high yield bond like Aspial , HF unless U hv insiders info about them & hv confident that the default risk is very low.


    rdgs,
    Vic

    rdgs,
    Vic

    Hi Vic

    ok, thanks for your advice. Will stay patience.


  4. #424

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    Thanks for the heads-up! Hope you can share more of these nuggets, as I don't have a source of such information

    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584
    Ezion postpones new bond issue. Cheung Kong perp bond below par on the 1st day of trading. Look like market is more cautious now.
    Vic

  5. #425

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    Quote Originally Posted by starrynight
    Thanks for the heads-up! Hope you can share more of these nuggets, as I don't have a source of such information

    Eizon eyes 130m from new Perp bond sale. But only manage to get 100m from Retail side. So it was not successful. Another new issue Cheung Kong USD Perp bond was traded below par (now 97) on the 1st day of trading.

    Pls be very careful on Perp bond unless it has dropped to a very attractive level to go in. Only for good quality name.


    rdgs,
    Vic

  6. #426

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    There are too many new issues recently and more to come.
    One word of cautious : be very very very careful before you buy.

    I would rather avoid, afterall, it is very difficult to get at IPO for the good quality bonds, so, don't waste time already.

  7. #427

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna
    There are too many new issues recently and more to come.
    One word of cautious : be very very very careful before you buy.

    I would rather avoid, afterall, it is very difficult to get at IPO for the good quality bonds, so, don't waste time already.

    I've been doing this to get hot Bonds at par.
    When it is launched, asked your RM how many times it is oversubscribed. Eg, if Ezion needs $100m MTN, the bookbuilding exercise already took in $300m before the end day(usually, it is very fast, within the day, bookbuilding can closed). So it is roughly 3x oversubscribed.

    What I will do is bid for for $750k if I only want $250k. Very high chance you will get 1 allotment. However, in the event, you get more than that, you must have the stomach to take it all in or dispose one when you get it.

  8. #428

    Default

    For your info only. Price on 18th Jan 2013


    CCY
    Issuer

    Cpn
    Maturity


    Moody's
    S&P
    Bid
    B YTW
    Offer
    O YTW

    ISIN

    Min Piece

    SGD
    OLAM INTERNATIONAL LTD

    4.070
    2/12/2013


    NA
    NA
    99.75
    8.50
    100.00
    4.00

    SG7V20953777

    250,000

    SGD
    OLAM INTERNATIONAL LTD

    3.000
    2/25/2013


    NA
    NA
    99.75
    5.71
    100.00
    2.96

    SG7Z58967497

    250,000

    SGD
    OLAM INTERNATIONAL LTD

    2.500
    9/6/2013


    NA
    NA
    98.00
    5.83
    99.00
    4.15

    SG6W29985234

    250,000

    SGD
    OLAM INTERNATIONAL LTD

    6.000
    8/10/2018


    NA
    NA
    94.25
    7.28
    95.75
    6.93

    SG6Q54973046

    250,000

    SGD
    OLAM INTERNATIONAL LTD

    5.800
    7/17/2019


    NA
    NA
    92.00
    7.37
    92.00
    7.37

    SG6V64983574

    250,000

    SGD
    OLAM INTERNATIONAL LTD

    6.000
    10/25/2022


    NA
    NA
    91.00
    7.30
    92.00
    7.15

    SG6X10986208

    250,000

    SGD
    OLAM INTERNATIONAL LTD

    7.000
    Perp


    NA
    NA
    88.00
    10.69
    89.50
    10.20

    SG6T26979516

    250,000

    USD
    OLAM INTERNATIONAL LTD

    5.750
    9/20/2017


    NA
    NA
    93.50
    7.42
    94.50
    7.16

    XS0831350185

    200,000

    USD
    OLAM INTERNATIONAL LTD

    7.500
    8/12/2020


    NA
    NA
    93.55
    8.68
    94.95
    8.42

    XS0531284080

    100,000

    USD
    OLAM INTERNATIONAL LTD

    6.000
    10/15/2016


    NA
    NA
    92.25
    8.46
    94.25
    7.80

    XS0450423321

    100,000

  9. #429

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    2 new issuances today:
    Issuer:
    Shinhan Bank
    Current Issuer Ratings:
    A1 by Moody's / A by S&P / A by Fitch
    Expected Issue Ratings:
    A1 by Moody's / [A] by S&P
    Status:
    Fixed rate, senior unsecured
    Format:
    144A/RegS
    Size:
    US$500mio max
    Tenor:
    5.5YR
    Product Risk Rating
    P2
    IPG:
    2.17% area; 5-year Treasury + 140bps (Current 5-year ~ 0.77%)
    Terms:
    SGX listing, 200k/1k denoms, New York law
    Joint Bookrunners:
    ANZ, BofA Merrill Lynch, BNP Paribas, Deutsche Bank, HSBC, JP Morgan, Mizuho Securities
    Timing:
    Today's Business

    Issuer
    Dubai DOF Sukuk Limited
    Obligor
    Government of Dubai , Department of Finance
    Rating
    Unrated
    Ranking
    Senior unsecured
    Format
    Sukuk Reg S Registered (Ijara Structure)
    Amount
    US$ benchmark
    Tenor
    10yr
    IPT:
    Low 4%
    Product Risk Rating
    P5
    Denoms
    US$200,000 x US$1,000
    Governing Law
    English and Dubai
    Listing
    Dubai Financial Market
    Bookrunners
    Dubai Islamic Bank / Emirates NBD / HSBC / NBAD/ Standard Chartered Bank

  10. #430

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    New issue today:

    Issuer:
    Tata Communications (Netherlands) B.V.
    Guarantor:
    Tata Communications Limited
    Structure:
    Fixed Rate Senior Unsecured Notes
    Issue Size:
    SGD Benchmark
    Issuer/Issue rating:
    Unrated
    Format:
    Regulation S
    Tenor:
    3 years
    Risk Rating:
    P4
    Coupon:
    4.35 – 4.625% area, semi-annual
    List/Denoms:
    SGD Benchmark
    Change of Control:
    Change of Control put at 100%, if the Tata Group ceases to (directly or indirectly) control the Guarantor or own at least 26% of the voting securities of the Guarantor OR the Guarantor ceases to (directly or indirectly) control the Issuer and its intermediate holding company, Tata Communications International Pte. Ltd (“TCIPL”) or own at least 51% of the voting securities of the Issuer or TCIPL
    Joint Books:
    ANZ, DBS Bank Ltd., The Royal Bank of Scotland and Standard Chartered Bank
    Denoms:
    S$250k x S$250k
    Details:
    English Law / SGX Listing
    Netroadshow Details
    http://www.netroadshow.com; Access code: Tata2013 (not case sensitive)
    Timing:
    Books open now, today's business

  11. #431

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    Commentary:
    Feels like a Hit and Run !
    For a company (market cap USD 1.2 bio about 2.5 times less than 2009 market cap) that has not tapped the market since 2009, they chose Singapore to launch their first issue and gave investors less than 4 hours to decide (hearing books closed at noon).
    You decide if that is a good or bad thing ? I say its irresponsible and tactics of used car salesmen.
    4 REASONS TO BUY
    1. Retail customers do not read income statements to realise this company has been running losses since 2010 and has negative free cashflow.
    2. Indian government owns 26.1% of the company and used to own 100% before selling part of their stake to Tata Sons in 2008 and it stopped making money since.
    3. There is a Change of Control clause for Tata majority ownership meaning that bondholders can put the bonds back on the event Tata group loses control.
    4. In this new world order, we are incline to believe that Tata Group is TOO BIG TO FAIL.
    My banker asked me what I thought of the bond ? The name or the price ?
    My answer is the price.
    The Indian government is rated Baa2/BBB- which makes it Aaa/AAA with its local rating agencies. Tata Group is Aaa locally which makes it Baa2/BBB-. Tata Power, another loss making company, is B2/BB- (Moodys/S&P).
    Best case scenario for Tata Communications would be somewhere in between Baa2/BBB- and B2/BB- given its government linked status. And investment grades end at BBB-, which makes it non investment grade and in the high yield category.
    I cannot accept that the bankers are selling Indian Oil, IDBI and ICICI as comparables to this name ! A change of control clause is NOT A GUARANTEE.
    A fair price for this bond would be on the other side of 5%, and I understand there is no leverage available.
    Still the books are well oversubscribed and this bond has the NRI (non resident Indian) appeal and we all know banks are paying out bonuses now.

  12. #432

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    It is sad to see now, a lot of people are not doing any more due diligence.
    And a lot believe, bond is safe and good, and it is the way to go.

    The market is flooded with liquid, u will feel it when come to bond IPO, it is far hotter than property market.

  13. #433

    Default .

    Today's offerings:

    Issuer
    Korea Southern Power Co., Ltd. (KOSPO)
    Issuer Ratings
    A1 Stable (Moody's) / A+ Stable (S&P)
    Exp. Issue Ratings
    A1 (Moody's) / A+ (S&P)
    Structure
    Fixed Rate, Senior Unsecured Notes
    Format
    Regulation S, Registered
    Tenor
    5Yrs
    Expected Issue Size
    US$ Benchmark
    Risk Rating
    P2
    Coupon
    Fixed, s.a., 30/360 unadj
    Price Guidance
    2.25% area [CT5 + 140bps area; current CT5 ~ 0.85%]
    Details
    SGX listing, $200k/1k Denoms, NY law
    Joint Bookrunners
    Barclays, Citigroup, Deutsche Bank, The Royal Bank of Scotland
    Timing
    Today’s Business

    Issuer
    Reliance Industries Limited
    Issuer Ratings
    Baa2/BBB (stable by Moody's / positive by S&P)
    Exp. Issue Ratings
    Baa2/BBB (Moody's/S&P)
    Type
    US$ Senior Perpetual Securities
    Status
    Senior Unsecured
    Format
    Rule 144A / Regulation S
    Size
    US$ Benchmark
    Tenor
    Perpetual Non-Call 5 years
    Risk Rating
    P4 – Sophisticated
    Coupon
    [xxx]% fixed, non-deferrable, (s/a 30/360)
    Initial Price Thoughts
    6% area
    Optional Redemption
    [xxx] February 2018 and every distribution payment date thereafter
    Coupon Structure
    [xxx]% Fixed for life, payable semi-annually in arrears
    Coupon Deferral
    Not deferrable
    Early Redemption Rights
    At par, in case of Tax Event
    Details
    US$200K/1K denoms; SGX Listing; New York law
    Use of Proceeds
    For ongoing capex in the infrastructure sector in compliance with RBI and India regulations
    Joint Global Coordinators
    BofAML / Citi / HSBC
    Joint Bookrunners
    BofAML / Citi / HSBC / Barclays / Deutsche Bank / J.P.Morgan / The Royal Bank of Scotland
    Timing
    This Week’s business

  14. #434

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    Thanks starrynight!

    How come the interest for the first one is so pathetic?

    2.25% only?

  15. #435

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna
    It is sad to see now, a lot of people are not doing any more due diligence.
    And a lot believe, bond is safe and good, and it is the way to go.

    The market is flooded with liquid, u will feel it when come to bond IPO, it is far hotter than property market.
    I just cut my corp bond holding by half, one year total return already far exceeding inflation
    Ride at your own risk !!!

  16. #436

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    Below are the recent SGD bond IPO in Jan 2013. This is just FYI.
    Maybank latest Fixed D is 1.6% for 36 mths.


    Pricing - 25th Jan2013
    ==============
    Cpn Maturity Bid Offer YTM Issue Size
    HDB 1.23% 1/30/2018 100 100.5 1.22% 1.2B

    Cpn Maturity Bid Offer YTM Issue Size
    Tata com Nethe 4.25% 1/2/2016 100.85 101.1 3.86% 250M

    Cpn Maturity Bid Offer YTM Issue Size
    Hong Fok Corp Ltd 4.75% 24/1/2018 100 100.35 4.67% 100M

    Cpn Maturity Bid Offer YTM Issue Size
    Biosensors 4.875% 23/1/2017 101.45 101.85 4.36% 300M

    Cpn Maturity Bid Offer YTM Issue Size
    Unicredit SPA 5.5% 30/7/2023 99.50 99.95 5.52% 300M

    Cpn Maturity Bid Offer YTM Issue Size
    ICICB bank 3.65% 14/1/2020 99.70 100.1 3.64% 225M

    Cpn Maturity Bid Offer YTM Issue Size
    Guthrie gts Ltd 3.7% 23/1/2018 100.3 100.8 3.52% 125M


    rdgs,
    vic




  17. #437

    Default

    I suspect cos it's a big stable sound company, so low risk = low yield.

    For corp bonds, a lot depends on:
    a. value of hard assets owned by the company
    b. amount of cash held by the company
    c. extent to which its assets have been encumbered, mortgaged, etc.
    d. cashflow expectations - guess utilities are seen to be stable.

    Quote Originally Posted by buttercarp
    Thanks starrynight!

    How come the interest for the first one is so pathetic?

    2.25% only?

  18. #438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by starrynight
    I suspect cos it's a big stable sound company, so low risk = low yield.

    For corp bonds, a lot depends on:
    a. value of hard assets owned by the company
    b. amount of cash held by the company
    c. extent to which its assets have been encumbered, mortgaged, etc.
    d. cashflow expectations - guess utilities are seen to be stable.
    Thanks starrynight.

    I was looking at the SGS T bills.
    The interest rate for 6 months is only around 0.22%.
    Why would people bother about this when you can get higher interest from eg 1 y FD or just leave it in a normal savings account?

    Also when I look at SG bonds, it says
    Coupon rate : To be determined based on the cut-off yield of successful
    applications

    What does that mean?

    Another question :

    Can the singapore government bonds be sold in the open market?














    Last edited by buttercarp; 28th January 2013 at 01:44 PM.

  19. #439

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    Buttercarp,

    The experts in the forum are better placed to advise, but I believe the answers are:

    a. I don't think individuals will buy SGD bonds now given the yield as you say. The reason for the super low yield is because (i) of the AAA rating which Singapore has and (ii) the yields have been pushed down because of the recent strong interest. In theory, SGS bonds are safer than bank FD, hence the yield discrepancy.

    b. On the other hand, some other institutions have to park some of their funds in super safe assets, and SGS bonds are 1 of them.

    c. cut-off: the issuer will usually provide an indicative coupon rate, and if the bond is very heavily subscribed, the issuer can lower the coupon rate, since they know that there are takers at the lower yield. Trust that explains.

    d. buy / sell: not sure what all the ways are, but you can trade using Fundsupermart - http://www.fundsupermart.com/main/sgs/SGShome.tpl

    Hope that helps.

    Quote Originally Posted by buttercarp
    Thanks starrynight.

    I was looking at the SGS T bills.
    The interest rate for 6 months is only around 0.22%.
    Why would people bother about this when you can get higher interest from eg 1 y FD or just leave it in a normal savings account?

    Also when I look at SG bonds, it says
    Coupon rate : To be determined based on the cut-off yield of successful
    applications

    What does that mean?

    Another question :

    Can the singapore government bonds be sold in the open market?















  20. #440

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    Quote Originally Posted by starrynight
    On the other hand, some other institutions have to park some of their funds in super safe assets, and SGS bonds are 1 of them.
    That means that instituitions will buy them to park their funds safely, and not individual investors.

    Thanks so much starrynight for taking the time to enlighten me.

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