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Thread: BOND THREAD

  1. #21
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    Fisherman : are u catching fish for me to eat? if yes, then I share...

    Cost of borrowing : currently is at 1.5-1.8%
    sales charge is around 3%

    Of course, if you are talking about big money, then all the private bankers here are willing to sit down with u to bring down the charges. This is what happened to my friend, he just inked the deal this week.

    As for timing, I will not advise...as I still want to eat good fish..

  2. #22

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    ABN lunching SGD bond on 17th Oct12. guidance 5% 10 yrs.
    LTV should be around 50% to 65%. Std chart is the book runner.
    Demand should be huge. Min amt 250k.


    The recent launched ABN usd bond 6.25% 10 yrs on 7th sept12 was well rec'd. Price to buy is now 105.

    rdgs,
    Vic

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna
    It is never too late to start. But overall, u have done very well compared to a lot of others...
    I suppose ur now a very busy daddy...enjoy the baby first....
    Sleepless nights...
    Not from helping.... but from the baby cries.. lol..

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by focus
    Sleepless nights...
    Not from helping.... but from the baby cries.. lol..
    forgot whether is a HE or SHE...
    but definitely, this small one changes your life.....
    bundle of joy and love

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by focus
    Sleepless nights...
    Not from helping.... but from the baby cries.. lol..
    If you are not helping, then try sleeping in another room.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by chestnut
    Bro, wa lau, you already answer everything on bonds already. You invest in bonds more than me.

    Just curious, why did u not go into properties?
    Wrong conviction.
    1) Stocks was battered till so low.. how not to buy ..and how can it not be the next one to chiong.. so i Bought stocks monthly for the long term.. unfortunately, it went up and down every year to the same level.. So not much profit there.. Properties went up and up and up ... strange..
    2) Guess the movement of interest rate wrongly. it was supposed to be QE1 and mass inflation and high borrowing costs to come.. It never did as QE2 came and LTRO came..and QE Infinity came. Euro did its part... and japan did its part... BOE did its part.. So interest rate is so low.. But in 2009-2010, i believed it will come up. I have never seen <3% interest rate in singapore..so my belief was this was an abornmality that will be corrected soon (since it's influenced by the US)
    3) People's loss of faith in financial instruments while i kept my faith in those.
    4) OVER-ANALYZING..and not using more guts. You see crisis ongoing.. how come property prices can chiong like that.. no reasons right...
    5) Not meeting more property investors, like i say..if i meet laguna.. I might have changed my views earlier.

    So now.. i am stuck between a rock and a hard place.. neither here nor there.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by focus
    Wrong conviction.

    5) Not meeting more property investors, like i say..if i meet laguna.. I might have changed my views earlier.

    So now.. i am stuck between a rock and a hard place.. neither here nor there.
    I doubt very much I could even influence you.
    there are many people, sink in their belief so deeply and very difficult to crack and ask them to adopt others' view.

  8. #28
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    Bro, now I tell you an interesting story in 2008/9. I met up very regularly to play golf with my friend.
    I told him "friend, stock market got beaten so bad, I think this is going to be prolonged. So go in monthly say 20K and accumulate over a year or 2".
    Many months later, I met him and said,"Wa, you made money??? I went in big time when I saw the stocks moving up". Guess wat, kana whack by him - Why you go in big, you didnt tell me. I .
    Same friend saw me going in props. So I explained the finer details and told him to go in. He went in 2009. Got out 2011. Made a cool 400K from a down of 200K. Thats it.

    So I am very scared to give advise anymore. Give, they make - no thank you. If dont make, kana f. IF never keep them posted, also get f. Thankless job.

    So I come forum to share, share but with no expectations of thanks from anyone. This is what I gladly do.

    One question, do you have an investment property? If no, go in. Start with a small 1. Learn the ropes. If you are not in, how the HELL are you going to learn.

    It is like me trying to show you how to swim. You watch from a tank for 1 year. After that, you jump into the pool, you think you know how to swim?

    Pay to learn man. I just dont understand why you have so much cash and yet so scared???
    Did you buy 10 bonds immediately???
    Food for thought.


    Quote Originally Posted by focus
    Wrong conviction.
    1) Stocks was battered till so low.. how not to buy ..and how can it not be the next one to chiong.. so i Bought stocks monthly for the long term.. unfortunately, it went up and down every year to the same level.. So not much profit there.. Properties went up and up and up ... strange..
    2) Guess the movement of interest rate wrongly. it was supposed to be QE1 and mass inflation and high borrowing costs to come.. It never did as QE2 came and LTRO came..and QE Infinity came. Euro did its part... and japan did its part... BOE did its part.. So interest rate is so low.. But in 2009-2010, i believed it will come up. I have never seen <3% interest rate in singapore..so my belief was this was an abornmality that will be corrected soon (since it's influenced by the US)
    3) People's loss of faith in financial instruments while i kept my faith in those.
    4) OVER-ANALYZING..and not using more guts. You see crisis ongoing.. how come property prices can chiong like that.. no reasons right...
    5) Not meeting more property investors, like i say..if i meet laguna.. I might have changed my views earlier.

    So now.. i am stuck between a rock and a hard place.. neither here nor there.
    Last edited by chestnut; 17th October 2012 at 04:54 PM.

  9. #29

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    Someone mentioned Eastspring M class earlier. How is it? It has returns of 5%. Should one sell, if one has it?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by focus
    Wrong conviction.
    1) Stocks was battered till so low.. how not to buy ..and how can it not be the next one to chiong.. so i Bought stocks monthly for the long term.. unfortunately, it went up and down every year to the same level.. So not much profit there.. Properties went up and up and up ... strange..
    2) Guess the movement of interest rate wrongly. it was supposed to be QE1 and mass inflation and high borrowing costs to come.. It never did as QE2 came and LTRO came..and QE Infinity came. Euro did its part... and japan did its part... BOE did its part.. So interest rate is so low.. But in 2009-2010, i believed it will come up. I have never seen <3% interest rate in singapore..so my belief was this was an abornmality that will be corrected soon (since it's influenced by the US)
    3) People's loss of faith in financial instruments while i kept my faith in those.
    4) OVER-ANALYZING..and not using more guts. You see crisis ongoing.. how come property prices can chiong like that.. no reasons right...
    5) Not meeting more property investors, like i say..if i meet laguna.. I might have changed my views earlier.

    So now.. i am stuck between a rock and a hard place.. neither here nor there.
    In my view, to drive the property prices higher (I am speaking of much higher), there is no doubt that there will be a stock market rally.

    So hold on to the portfolio.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna
    I doubt very much I could even influence you.
    there are many people, sink in their belief so deeply and very difficult to crack and ask them to adopt others' view.
    Sometimes..it is looking at people really doing it with confidence that you will be moved to re-examine your truism.

    But of course..at this stage... i damn scared...

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by chestnut
    So I come forum to share, share but with no expectations of thanks from anyone. This is what I gladly do.

    One question, do you have an investment property? If no, go in. Start with a small 1. Learn the ropes. If you are not in, how the HELL are you going to learn.

    It is like me trying to show you how to swim. You watch from a tank for 1 year. After that, you jump into the pool, you think you know how to swim?

    Pay to learn man. I just dont understand why you have so much cash and yet so scared???
    Did you buy 10 bonds immediately???
    Food for thought.
    Yup. I only like to ask people what they are doing.. Will not ask them to give advice. Coz what they do is more important than what they tell you. Bankers can give advice.. the real doers INVEST! ..

    Agreed. I need to go in. But I can only think of commercial in Singapore or the Australia market. I think I am seeing what is happening in singapore in 2009, happening in australia market. Their interest rate is climbing down now and people who are stuck with high loan interest for years will think the same way as me.. it is an abnormality that wil correct itself soon. But it won't..

    of course.. investing is about TAKING ACTION. I talked too much.. Do too little.

    Bonds was also thru a half-year purchase at different timing. Most of it was acquired after I disposed of my stocks before the august 2011 selldown. Of course, i re-acquired stocks again from jan to feb 2012.. but not as much weightage.

    Well.. Too conservative loh. Now trying to open up. Anyway, Dr MIchael Leong also don't leverage .. the shareinvestor founder who sold out his company to SPH for $10mil. He's only investing in shares and properties for him is for staying not investing. Just pointing him out to share there are people like him who is rich and still don't believe in leverage and properties. While some are as rich but believe totally in properties and leverage.

    I'm now swaying to the properties and leverage camp.. but a little too late in singapore perharps.

  13. #33
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    Focus, Focus
    ur too focus. I recalled most of your postings, were focused on the achievements in the past, min leverage, missed here and there...etc

    just take stock and decide where you want to go, what you want to do...and game move on like that...

    u have the knowledge, perhaps lack of little wisdom and gut feel

  14. #34
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    Focus, specialise in something and I believe you have found it. I am in no way advocating properties.
    There are people who make way more out of spotting good stocks then a person who had gone in with properties.
    So you choose what you want. But please dont look at the swimming pool and keep telling yourself "wouldn't it be nice if I can swim like this guy (butterfly strokes)", but you cant even change to a swimming trunk let alone, touch the pool. It will bring you pain.
    You are already doing well and I wish you well in your endeavour.

    One more thing, you keep talking about leverage - I hope you are in no way referring to me. I am way under leverage !!! Hahahahaha. Why? I want to sleep well at nite but bloody problem is I keep waking up in the middle of the nite and realised, people at my age generally have this problem. Hahahaha.

    Cheers !!!
    Last edited by chestnut; 17th October 2012 at 06:52 PM.

  15. #35
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    thanks both chestnut and laguna.
    yup. sitting on my butt.
    Analysis paralysis.

    That's why my nick is focus.. i realised i need focus.. and ACTION..
    so maybe need a new nick.. JUSTDOIT.

    Laguna.. ya.. take stock and move on .. I will do that definitely. ACTION ACTION ACTION.

    chestnut, not talking about you. I'm just saying too much leverage on financial instruments is no no for me. I will be scared to sleep every nite. But maybe those who have more wisdom are using it successfully. Not me.
    Last edited by focus; 17th October 2012 at 09:01 PM.

  16. #36
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    Focus : sharing with us your decision...

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by chestnut
    So I am very scared to give advise anymore. Give, they make - no thank you. If dont make, kana f. IF never keep them posted, also get f. Thankless job.

    So I come forum to share, share but with no expectations of thanks from anyone. This is what I gladly do.
    Yes, same here.

    Now, I have distant quite a number of friends due to my so called "ADVICE" but they did not act on, and blamed me heavily. Somehow, itch again, made calls in REITs and BONDs early this year...got whack again.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna
    Yes, same here.

    Now, I have distant quite a number of friends due to my so called "ADVICE" but they did not act on, and blamed me heavily. Somehow, itch again, made calls in REITs and BONDs early this year...got whack again.
    Poor thing. The happiest moment for me was when my 1 down bought investment properties and now happily collecting rental. But w this financial measure, I told them they cannot play anymore. If not I need to give them big increment. Then I will get shit. So sad

  19. #39
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    Sometime, it is just a matter of keeping your ears on the ground.

    I recalled the fateful dinner that we had in July 2009, a group of us doing the usual friendly bantering, tcss over nothing important, and the conversation veered to condo investment, which one was good to buy la, potential yields la and so on. I told them "listen, this is what my agent has been telling me...the best buy now is landed!...FH terraces in Serangoon Garden, Thomson, Sembawang Hill are being offered at about $500 psf".

    And then we had the chorus of reactions, "sure or not,...not possible la,...don't bluff". At the end of more bantering, four of us decided to explore the possibility further in earnest.

    We retained the agent to scout for units in these areas for our review, and eventually each bought a unit, I picked up one, my wife another, all in original condition, single storey terraces on land about 2000 sqf built in the 1960s, at prices $1.0 mil to $1.2 mil each.

    We spent another $500,000 or so each, to tear down the old dwelling to reconstruct a new 2.5-storeys building in 2010. One of us, a lady in early 40s, sold her reconstructed unit at $2.0 mil just after its completion. Another, a young chap in mid 30s, he was staying in a 3-rooms HDB with her widowed mother, didn't do anything to the old house at all, but sold it off just 2 months ago at $2.0 mil, grossing him $1.0 mil in just over a year. His deployed capital? Just more than $250,000.

    When we looked back, we all thought that the situation was really weird. In July 2009, the stock markets had already recovered most of its plunge, the economy was not great but ok, with still some unemployment issue, and yet this mispricing opportunity was presented to us. Once we acted on it, the rest is history.

  20. #40
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    Spoken like a champ. I keep my eyes wide open and my ears ever listening. Look at history. It always repeats somewhat w some twist here and there. If u see the climb to 1997, it is somewhat similar. Landed was last to cheong. So history repeats itself. Dig back some newspaper clippings if u can find and the same story. Landed limited. Very exclusive, blah, blah, blah...
    Only for Singaporeans.
    Then came 1997 Asia financial crisis. It was this that put a halt to the entire show. If not it would have continued.
    But wat remains the same is: with a MAJOR crisis and huge unemployment coupled w long recession, the prices will drop big time. I have asked anyone to show me when prices drop big time and did not correlate to the long recession but none can show me proof.

    That's why I keep stressing- knowledge of past is an important guide to the future. Notice I used the word GUIDE.
    That's how great conquerors win the battle.
    Well done mr secretary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretariat
    Sometime, it is just a matter of keeping your ears on the ground.

    I recalled the fateful dinner that we had in July 2009, a group of us doing the usual friendly bantering, tcss over nothing important, and the conversation veered to condo investment, which one was good to buy la, potential yields la and so on. I told them "listen, this is what my agent has been telling me...the best buy now is landed!...FH terraces in Serangoon Garden, Thomson, Sembawang Hill are being offered at about $500 psf".

    And then we had the chorus of reactions, "sure or not,...not possible la,...don't bluff". At the end of more bantering, four of us decided to explore the possibility further in earnest.

    We retained the agent to scout for units in these areas for our review, and eventually each bought a unit, I picked up one, my wife another, all in original condition, single storey terraces on land about 2000 sqf built in the 1960s, at prices $1.0 mil to $1.2 mil each.

    We spent another $500,000 or so each, to tear down the old dwelling to reconstruct a new 2.5-storeys building in 2010. One of us, a lady in early 40s, sold her reconstructed unit at $2.0 mil just after its completion. Another, a young chap in mid 30s, he was staying in a 3-rooms HDB with her widowed mother, didn't do anything to the old house at all, but sold it off just 2 months ago at $2.0 mil, grossing him $1.0 mil in just over a year. His deployed capital? Just more than $250,000.

    When we looked back, we all thought that the situation was really weird. In July 2009, the stock markets had already recovered most of its plunge, the economy was not great but ok, with still some unemployment issue, and yet this mispricing opportunity was presented to us. Once we acted on it, the rest is history.

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