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Thread: BOND THREAD

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584
    This is not an advise by the banker. I really want to make full use whatever cash avail to buy only bond DBS pref bond at that time. I sold my DBS pref bond in 2011 & switch to OUE & Lipomall straight bond @4.95% & 5.875% respectively.

    rdgs,
    Vic
    how do u buy these stuff ?

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584
    This is not an advise by the banker. I really want to make full use whatever cash avail to buy only bond DBS pref bond at that time. I sold my DBS pref bond in 2011 & switch to OUE & Lipomall straight bond @4.95% & 5.875% respectively.

    rdgs,
    Vic
    Hi vic,
    you said you bought the DBS preferential bond in 2010, then sold in 2011.
    Usually what is the tenure of the bond?
    If you redeem it earlier how much will be forfeited?

  3. #93
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    These are Preference Shares not real bonds...some bond-like attributes but not real bonds. Riskier than bonds in that they rank below bonds but above shares.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by buttercarp
    Hi vic,
    you said you bought the DBS preferential bond in 2010, then sold in 2011.
    Usually what is the tenure of the bond?
    If you redeem it earlier how much will be forfeited?
    I bought DBS pref bond @ 100. Sell @101.
    OUE 4.95% 7 yrs @ 100. price now 102+
    Lippomall 5.875% 5 yrs @ 100. Bond price now 105+

    Check with your banker to study into bond investment.
    A more simple bond investment is unit trust.

    rdgs,
    Vic

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584
    I bought DBS pref bond @ 100. Sell @101.
    OUE 4.95% 7 yrs @ 100. price now 102+
    Lippomall 5.875% 5 yrs @ 100. Bond price now 105+

    Check with your banker to study into bond investment.
    A more simple bond investment is unit trust.

    rdgs,
    Vic
    Thanks vic .
    You got me interested.
    However, it is all greek to me at the moment.
    I have unit trust tagged together with my life insurance but don't understand how it really works.
    Now that I am interested, I will do research to understand better.

  6. #96
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    Bro, for universal life, please make sure the insurer is super solid. In event of insolvency of the insurer, the guarantee amount is a few hundred thousand. I cannot remember the amount. U can check w your insurer. So if u take 5 mil, it is better to spread it out. There is another way to do universal life at lower premium but do tedious to explain. It is like leverage and upon death, the outstanding 'loan' is deducted from the total payout.

    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584
    I bought my condo @ 1.2m in 2005. In 2010, valuation is @2m. I took a equity loan of [email protected]% interest rate to buy in 3 lots (750k) DBS 4.7% pref bond. So every year, I collect (4.7%-1.3%-0.1% Custodian fee X 750k)
    SGD$24.75k of dividend. The $24.75k will pay for my mortgage loan , property tax & maintenace fee.


    The smart & rich investors bought a US$5m universal whole life (not term) in 2009 . They pay the min amt to be insured US$5m. Draw down a USD loan to buy USD bond fund. The yearly bond dividend (5%) will pay for the yearly premium. This is what they hv done to ensure that it the event something happen to them. Their children will not be left with little money.

    rdgs,
    Vic

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584
    I bought my condo @ 1.2m in 2005. In 2010, valuation is @2m. I took a equity loan of [email protected]% interest rate to buy in 3 lots (750k) DBS 4.7% pref bond. So every year, I collect (4.7%-1.3%-0.1% Custodian fee X 750k)
    SGD$24.75k of dividend. The $24.75k will pay for my mortgage loan , property tax & maintenace fee.

    rdgs,
    Vic
    You are doing all these just for the $25,000?

    With borrowed money, and unhedged I suppose.

  8. #98
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    This thread getting more interesting. Universal Life also mentioned.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by kane
    This thread getting more interesting. Universal Life also mentioned.
    Bro, be careful of universal. The insurer must be super strong. If they go bust, Singapore only guarantee only a certain amount. Really cannot remember the amount but super small. So if u want to get big amount, better spread. Same to deposits in bank.

  10. #100
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    Everybody is hungry of Yield and discounting risk
    Ride at your own risk !!!

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom_opera
    Everybody is hungry of Yield and discounting risk
    Fully agreed, especially in the high yield bond area

  12. #102
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    posted the write up on massage in here
    http://forums.condosingapore.com/sho...t=15395&page=5

  13. #103
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    Sorry I can't believe ppl are so happy buying universal life. The ONLY purpose of universal life is to avoid estate duty / inheritance tax. Since SG had abolished estate duty, the whole purpose of universal life is moot.

    @cbsh, I'm surprised you buy/sell bond like shares. Corp bond bid offer spread is not small, plus bank takes a 50bps cut. Buy sell within 1yr dun gain you much. Bond is meant to be held to maturity. Unless you need the cash. Retail bonds, those can buy at thousands, usually have lowere yield. Companies are taking advantages of the retail public since they cannot do 250k. Bond fund is even worse. Exactly because retail investors cannot do big size, they get you to invest in their fund to buy bond, and pay them fee for doing something very simple.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584
    This is not an advise by the banker. I really want to make full use whatever cash avail to buy only bond DBS pref bond at that time. I sold my DBS pref bond in 2011 & switch to OUE & Lipomall straight bond @4.95% & 5.875% respectively.

    rdgs,
    Vic
    Hi Vic
    is that all u have done in bonds?
    I think u can learn more from Focus, he has better picks than u.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by chestnut
    Bro, for universal life, please make sure the insurer is super solid. In event of insolvency of the insurer, the guarantee amount is a few hundred thousand. I cannot remember the amount. U can check w your insurer. So if u take 5 mil, it is better to spread it out. There is another way to do universal life at lower premium but do tedious to explain. It is like leverage and upon death, the outstanding 'loan' is deducted from the total payout.
    HSBC , std chart & credit sui offer this universal life plan. So it is safe.

    rdgs,
    Vic

  16. #106
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    Some specific Qs to ask experts here.

    Does Bond value go below 100? Does this happen only when bank interest rates rise? Can issurer reduce the projected yield?
    Will there be buyers everything you wish to sell?

    When Bond value rises beyond 103, is it still worth getting into?

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna
    Hi Vic
    is that all u have done in bonds?
    I think u can learn more from Focus, he has better picks than u.

    I have ABN , Banyan Tree , OUE , Lippomall , Shui On , Noble,Olam, Petra Food ,Hutchison, Cheung kong, Citi pacific etc etc. LTV ave 58%.
    Coupon est 180k to 200k/yr after deducting loan interest rate & custodian fee. 80% are straight bond. The rest are perp bond.

    Bank takes 0.2bps. Need to monitor closely the sign of raising rate. Will likely to sell some early 2014.

  18. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584
    HSBC , std chart & credit sui offer this universal life plan. So it is safe.

    rdgs,
    Vic

    They offering thru an insurer. They are not the insurer. If u have already taken, ok. If you have not and going to take, I suggest u take term but if u really want to take, spread it out. Find out if the insurer goes kaput, what is the max payout. I don't think any of the local insurance coy does universal.

  19. #109
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    Those who bought universal life related product few years ago in US$ would have their values devalue with the drop in US$ -SGD exchange rate. What if one day 1US$ = 1SGD?
    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584
    HSBC , std chart & credit sui offer this universal life plan. So it is safe.

    rdgs,
    Vic

  20. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584
    I have ABN , Banyan Tree , OUE , Lippomall , Shui On , Noble,Olam, Petra Food ,Hutchison, Cheung kong, Citi pacific etc etc. LTV ave 58%.
    Coupon est 180k to 200k/yr after deducting loan interest rate & custodian fee. 80% are straight bond. The rest are perp bond.

    Bank takes 0.2bps. Need to monitor closely the sign of raising rate. Will likely to sell some early 2014.
    haha, after I said, Focus is better, then u show your true colour....with etc etc...

    your coupon is in the range of 5%, net give u 3.7%, income say $200,000, so total gross bond value is $5m, LTV 58%, so your cash portion is around $2m...

    well done

  21. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584
    HSBC , std chart & credit sui offer this universal life plan. So it is safe.

    rdgs,
    Vic
    dbs, ubs, hsbc also offer lehman bond in the past...all kaput

  22. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008
    Those who bought universal life related product few years ago in US$ would have their values devalue with the drop in US$ -SGD exchange rate. What if one day 1US$ = 1SGD?

    I dont buy the universal life plan. I said that the Smart & rich clients are borrowing in USD & invest in USD global bond fund giving 5% dividend. The dividend payout will be used to pay their yearly premium. USD $ down would effect them alot as their money are borrowed in USD.


    rdgs,
    Vic

  23. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna
    haha, after I said, Focus is better, then u show your true colour....with etc etc...

    your coupon is in the range of 5%, net give u 3.7%, income say $200,000, so total gross bond value is $5m, LTV 58%, so your cash portion is around $2m...

    well done
    I used less than 1.6m cash.I borrowed >1.6M. My coupon is in the range of 7%. If I use the cash 1.6m to buy property, how to get 180k to 200k/yr return. I need to make full used of low interest for the next 2-3 yrs (2010 to 2014) to make as much as possible. Will monitor very closely the sign of raising rate. Will probably sell some in 2014.

    I told many of my friends in early 2011 that there are money to be make in bond due to the QE. When I told them they need to leverage it to get a better return. They dare not. Seem to risky to borrow.

  24. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by buttercarp
    Me too, but not very effective.




    Hi Laguna, I also wanna know, please?
    haha Laguna so where is ur massage parlor? urgently need a good 1!

  25. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584
    I used less than 1.6m cash.I borrowed >1.6M. My coupon is in the range of 7%. If I use the cash 1.6m to buy property, how to get 180k to 200k/yr return. I need to make full used of low interest for the next 2-3 yrs (2010 to 2014) to make as much as possible. Will monitor very closely the sign of raising rate. Will probably sell some in 2014.

    I told many of my friends in early 2011 that there are money to be make in bond due to the QE. When I told them they need to leverage it to get a better return. They dare not. Seem to risky to borrow.
    when u have bond, ur looking for fixed income or yield and perhaps some capital appreciation. U buy straight bond, so the capital appreciation is not that substantial.

    When in property, ur talking not about rental/yield, but on capital appreciation especially on a cash on cash return. Of course, now with lower LTV, the cash on cash return is getting lesser.

    I got a friend, bot in early 2011, now the capital appreciation is 60%, u cannot get this sort of capital return in bonds.

  26. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by price
    haha Laguna so where is ur massage parlor? urgently need a good 1!
    here it goes
    http://forums.condosingapore.com/sho...t=15395&page=5
    post 49

    If u want a good relaxing one, I have another one to suggest, at Roxy Square

  27. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna
    when u have bond, ur looking for fixed income or yield and perhaps some capital appreciation. U buy straight bond, so the capital appreciation is not that substantial.

    When in property, ur talking not about rental/yield, but on capital appreciation especially on a cash on cash return. Of course, now with lower LTV, the cash on cash return is getting lesser.

    I got a friend, bot in early 2011, now the capital appreciation is 60%, u cannot get this sort of capital return in bonds.
    After reading through the posts, i was gonna ask for a direct comparison between bonds and properties since we're still in a Condo Forum.

    another point to add to yours,
    Preference shares / bonds can collapse and become 0 in value.

    It is very rare that a property can become $0 as long as you have the holding power. Unless a bomb drops?

  28. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584
    I used less than 1.6m cash.I borrowed >1.6M. My coupon is in the range of 7%. If I use the cash 1.6m to buy property, how to get 180k to 200k/yr return. I need to make full used of low interest for the next 2-3 yrs (2010 to 2014) to make as much as possible. Will monitor very closely the sign of raising rate. Will probably sell some in 2014. .
    $200,000 net on a cash capital of $1.6m, ie 12.5% net. A fair return for using leverage but definitely not the top nod.

  29. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna
    $200,000 net on a cash capital of $1.6m, ie 12.5% net. A fair return for using leverage but definitely not the top nod.
    The findings I uncovered in my participation in this forum is :
    1. Many do not know their objective, so don't know what to invest.
    2. Many do not set objectives because they did not go into 1 as above.
    3. Many expect whatever said in the forum to be true and don't do their own due diligence.
    4. Many want to be spoon fed.
    5. Many do contradict but don't provide evidence.
    6. Many just tell u, wheni ask for proof, they tell u, go find yourself. If we can find ourselves, we would not be contradicting u in the first place. It could be a case, we don't know where to find.

    What I also found is,
    There are many genuine people here who really want to help and for that, I am appreciative.
    So Bottomline, I do enjoy this forum.

  30. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by chestnut
    The findings I uncovered in my participation in this forum is :
    1. Many do not know their objective, so don't know what to invest.
    2. Many do not set objectives because they did not go into 1 as above.
    3. Many expect whatever said in the forum to be true and don't do their own due diligence.
    4. Many want to be spoon fed.
    5. Many do contradict but don't provide evidence.
    6. Many just tell u, wheni ask for proof, they tell u, go find yourself. If we can find ourselves, we would not be contradicting u in the first place. It could be a case, we don't know where to find.

    What I also found is,
    There are many genuine people here who really want to help and for that, I am appreciative.
    So Bottomline, I do enjoy this forum.
    一种米养百种人
    just enjoy lor! I do as well...

    now eye big big looking at GS

    BTW, I also dunno how much I said is true and how much is false as well...
    Last edited by Laguna; 24-10-12 at 23:17.

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