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Thread: BOND THREAD

  1. #2461
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbiebondinvestor View Post
    Need your comments.. i am holding on to Unicredit SGD sub bond 5.5% but a bit worried about the Italian and Unicredit debt situation. Should i be worried even though it is an old style T2? Any thoughts will be appreciated! Thinking of selling out.. price has been dropping
    i sold mine last month. Some banker said it is not affected by the coco. My banker said play safe better sell.

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    Take the risk to buy latest std chart USD 7.5% perp bond (coco) @100.50.
    Likely to be a short term trade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584 View Post
    Take the risk to buy latest std chart USD 7.5% perp bond (coco) @100.50.
    Likely to be a short term trade.
    Incidentally, I bought during IPO at 100.25 and sold at 101 the next day. I sold because it is a coco bond despite LTV at 70%. For long term, prefer to hold better paper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeds View Post
    Incidentally, I bought during IPO at 100.25 and sold at 101 the next day. I sold because it is a coco bond despite LTV at 70%. For long term, prefer to hold better paper.
    What's a coco bond?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeaprp View Post
    What's a coco bond?
    A contingent convertible bond (CoCo), also known as an enhanced capital note (ECN) is a fixed-income instrument that is convertible into equity if a pre-specified trigger event occurs. The concept of CoCo has been particularly discussed in the context of crisis management in the banking industry.

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    many of the retail bonds (hylfux, oxley, aspiral, perennial) are dropping, would like to ask is this a good time to pick some ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2824 View Post
    many of the retail bonds (hylfux, oxley, aspiral, perennial) are dropping, would like to ask is this a good time to pick some ??
    I would avoid these papers except Perennial if you want to sleep well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeds View Post
    I would avoid these papers except Perennial if you want to sleep well.
    Having said that, it could well be the right time to bargain hunt if you are willing to take greater risk.

    Many analysts are using the bid price of some high-yield bonds to build their story. These bonds are likely have no transaction at all for a long time. Many retail bonds are not traded at all so there is really no "right price".

    Many retail bond investors are not experience investors and they treat bond like equity. The moment they see prices coming down, they panic and decide to sell at whatever bid price, hence the last transacted price is recorded.

    If you have a bond portfolio of consisting of equal number of investment grade bonds and high-yield bonds, your portfolio value is likely to be below water. If you know the company well and have done your homework before buying into these bonds, just stay calm and continue to collect your coupons.

    Some high-yield bonds are really very attractive now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeds View Post
    I would avoid these papers except Perennial if you want to sleep well.
    No wonder it dropped the least among those mentioned. The perennial holders must be still fast asleep.

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    There are some similarity between investing in bond and property. For bonds, you either buy at below par or slightly above par and your objective is to receive coupon payment on a regular basis. If the bonds you invested are quality notes, just likely good property, you hold on and continue to collect rental and ignoring the short term price fluctuation or "paper losses".

    Like property, there will always be the weak holders who have to cash out due to margin call. There are also inexperience investors who will sell at current bid price because they prefer to cut losses than witnessing the continuous slide in price.

    The major different between property and bond is that for property, if you have invested in a highly-inflated property, you may have no choice but to sell at a lost especially if your rental could not cover your loan and you reckon that prices are not likely to recover to the same level in the foreseeable future. As for bonds, you are not likely to buy into "highly-inflated" bonds; at most you buy at 5-6 percent above par.

  11. #2471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeds View Post
    There are some similarity between investing in bond and property. For bonds, you either buy at below par or slightly above par and your objective is to receive coupon payment on a regular basis. If the bonds you invested are quality notes, just likely good property, you hold on and continue to collect rental and ignoring the short term price fluctuation or "paper losses".

    Like property, there will always be the weak holders who have to cash out due to margin call. There are also inexperience investors who will sell at current bid price because they prefer to cut losses than witnessing the continuous slide in price.

    The major different between property and bond is that for property, if you have invested in a highly-inflated property, you may have no choice but to sell at a lost especially if your rental could not cover your loan and you reckon that prices are not likely to recover to the same level in the foreseeable future. As for bonds, you are not likely to buy into "highly-inflated" bonds; at most you buy at 5-6 percent above par.
    Good explaination.

  12. #2472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeds View Post
    There are some similarity between investing in bond and property. For bonds, you either buy at below par or slightly above par and your objective is to receive coupon payment on a regular basis. If the bonds you invested are quality notes, just likely good property, you hold on and continue to collect rental and ignoring the short term price fluctuation or "paper losses".

    Like property, there will always be the weak holders who have to cash out due to margin call. There are also inexperience investors who will sell at current bid price because they prefer to cut losses than witnessing the continuous slide in price.

    The major different between property and bond is that for property, if you have invested in a highly-inflated property, you may have no choice but to sell at a lost especially if your rental could not cover your loan and you reckon that prices are not likely to recover to the same level in the foreseeable future. As for bonds, you are not likely to buy into "highly-inflated" bonds; at most you buy at 5-6 percent above par.

    I bought Trafigura SGD 7.5% perp bond in Feb 2014 @100. It did dropped to as low as 80 in early Jan16. But I just ignored the "NOISE". I must admit that
    I cant sleep well during the mini oil crash in Jan 16 to Mar16. I just ride through this crisis with many sleepless nite.

    It has seen recovered to 94. So far I have collected $43.75k ( 2.5 yrs) of coupon since Feb 2014..

  13. #2473
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584 View Post
    I bought Trafigura SGD 7.5% perp bond in Feb 2014 @100. It did dropped to as low as 80 in early Jan16. But I just ignored the "NOISE". I must admit that
    I cant sleep well during the mini oil crash in Jan 16 to Mar16. I just ride through this crisis with many sleepless nite.

    It has seen recovered to 94. So far I have collected $43.75k ( 2.5 yrs) of coupon since Feb 2014..
    I wanted to buy Hyflux (1st tranche) 6% perp bond (callable 2018) which it allow to use CPF. But not many seller
    although the price is below par, 94.60. I thought I am able to buy $30k to 50k using my CPF-OA.
    Manipulatied by the speculators or big traders.

    To buy @94.60 Only 100 shares avail ( or $110)
    Next to buy price jump to @ par @ 100 but only 200 shares (or $200).
    Commission already min $20 or 0.0013% of the amt. So not worth to buy small lots.

  14. #2474
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584 View Post
    Take the risk to buy latest std chart USD 7.5% perp bond (coco) @100.50.
    Likely to be a short term trade.
    Std chart 7.5% coco bond IPO Aug16 Vs 6.5% coco bond IPO in Mar15
    =========================================================
    1) callable in 2022 (7.5%) Vs callable 2020 (6.5%)
    If not call in 2022 (7.5% bond) . Reset to 5 yrs MS (1.162%) + 6.3%

    If not call in 2020 (6.5% bond) , Reset to 5 yrs MS (1.162%) + 4.889%



    2) 7.5% COCO bond = Equity conversion [STAN LONDON] if CET1 ratio falls below 7%.
    Conversion price: USD7.73 (base on One pound= US$1.2965.


    2a) 6.5% COCO BOND = Equity conversion [STAN LONDON] if CET1 ratio falls below 7%.
    Conversion price: USD10.86565

    Std chart london price now (23Aug16) Pound$6.27 or US$.31 X6.27 = US$8.21
    In Mar13, it was trading Pound $15 X 1.5(Xrate ) = US$22,5



    3. Insituition holding for 7.5% COCO bond
    =================================
    Asset mgmt hold 60%
    private bank hold 25%
    Hedge fund hold 13%
    other 2%.

    3a) Insituition holding for 7.5% COCO bond
    =================================
    Data not avail.


    This is a high risk coco bond trade. Will hold short term.


    4) 7.5% COCO bond trading price now 100+
    4A) 6.5% COCO bond trading price now 94+
    .

  15. #2475
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    May i know where can i get info for new launch and latest price? My RM always quote 100.75 as bid price as i feel i buying from secondary market. I heard is from Bloomberg but we can access it right cos need login?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hobs View Post
    May i know where can i get info for new launch and latest price? My RM always quote 100.75 as bid price as i feel i buying from secondary market. I heard is from Bloomberg but we can access it right cos need login?
    Your questions have been explained somewhere in this thread before.

    Bank's RM (for Priority clients) usually are not keen to sell bonds because they need to deal with the bank's bond desk which usually deal direct with the bank's private clients. The RM will still sell bonds if you are keen and their rate is usually at least 75 to 100 basis points (0.75 to 1.00). If you trade more with the bank, you may negotiate for less but priority clients usually do not get better rate. If you plan to hold more than $2m of bond, try to get yourself in as private client and you are likely to get priority for IPO and better rate.

    Alternatively, try the online Bondsupermart (https://www.bondsupermart.com/main/home) and look at their costs including holding cost if any. I do not buy from this platform so I cannot tell you more.

    Another option is to open an account with MayBank Kim Eng through their dealer. Their in-house dealers do deal with bonds but allocation for IPO is usually very small and the chances is not high unless you are the equivalent of bank's private clients.

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    Thank you leeds. Shall dig out the old replies in this thread. Sorry to made u repeat but appreciates old timer guide a novice like me.

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    Philips securities: using their Fixed income dept , have quoted me a 0.25% commission fee for buy a face value 250k bond and putting in my cdp account but i have yet to use them as
    wife is ultraconservative

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    Quote Originally Posted by hobs View Post
    Thank you leeds. Shall dig out the old replies in this thread. Sorry to made u repeat but appreciates old timer guide a novice like me.
    Quote Originally Posted by GORDON View Post
    Philips securities: using their Fixed income dept , have quoted me a 0.25% commission fee for buy a face value 250k bond and putting in my cdp account but i have yet to use them as
    wife is ultraconservative
    No worries hobs!

    Do note that security firms like Philips and MayBank Kim Eng, do not get big allocation for IPO especially for good investment grade bonds. As such, your chances of allocation is very slim unless you are one of their top clients. However, if you are buying secondary market bonds, they are good avenue to buy as they charge less than the banks. You may transfer your SGX listed bonds to CDP to save on holding cost with these firms but they can waive the holding cost if you request. However, you will not be able to transfer to CDP if the bonds are not listed under SGX such as foreign bonds.

    The advantage of buying form security firms is that you could leverage via a margin account. In another words, if yo buy two lot for $500K and if the LTV is say 70%, you could borrow up to $350K and pay up only $150K. However, you will be asked to top up your margin if the bond price fall below certain level. So do not leverage to the maximum. Just like property, do not be too highly leveraged.

    Similarly, you can borrow from the bank to buy investment grade bonds.

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    Singapore private banks under scrutiny for earning bonuses by selling risky debt: MAS

    SINGAPORE (BLOOMBERG) - Singapore's private banks are coming under scrutiny for earning bonuses by selling risky debt, as the city sees an unprecedented wave of defaults. The The Monetary Authority of Singapore says an industry group is reviewing the practice.

    Bond issuers offer banks rebates of as much as 1 per cent as incentive to sell unrated securities, according to a Bloomberg News analysis of figures from bond-sale arrangers and compiled by analysts. The payments, which often aren't explained to the banks' clients, have stoked concerns of a conflict of interest, and Fidelity International has called for the practice to be abolished.

    At least half the S$875 million of bonds that have failed since November were sold by private banks earning rebates.

    The defaults have further shaken confidence in Singapore's financial markets. A penny-stock crash, close ties between the local unit of a Swiss bank and a disgraced Malaysian state investment firm and raids on brokerages in a market manipulation probe have kept authorities busy. Undeclared bonuses for selling poor quality debt raise another spectre.

    MASsaid on Thursday (Aug 25) that there's scope for disclosure on rebates to be clarified.
    "Ultimately, safeguards on disclosures complement the broader obligation of private banks to act in the best interests of their clients, taking into account their investment objectives and risk tolerance," MAS said in response to queries. "At the same time, this cannot replace the need for investors to take responsibility for their investments."

    Private banks are expected to uphold "rigorous standards" in dealing with their clients, and that includes disclosing key terms of transactions, fees and conflicts of interest, the regulator said.

    "The private bankers are supposed to look after their clients' interests but this may cause them to put the issuers' interest and their own interest first," Mak Yuen Teen, co-director of the Corporate Governance and Financial Reporting Centre at the National University of Singapore, said, speaking of the rebates. "It poses a conflict."

    Private banks took up 49 to 92 per cent of the unrated notes issued by PT Trikomsel Oke, Pacific Andes Resources Development Ltd and Swiber Holdings Ltd in their sales from April 2013 to October 2014, the Bloomberg News analysis shows. These three companies have defaulted on their bond obligations since November.

    "The practice of sales concessions is not unique to Singapore but is also practiced in other global financial centers," Tan Su Shan, co-chair of MAS's private banking industry group said in a separate statement on Thursday. "There is no explicit requirement currently for distributors to declare the amount of sales concessions received. Some distributors do and others do not."

    There is scope to enhance disclosure to clients, said Ms Tan. The industry group is reviewing the code to require private banks to disclose fees and charges on investment products and services, including bond sales concessions, she said.

    Ms Tan is also group head of consumer banking and wealth management at DBS Group Holdings, Southeast Asia's biggest lender.

    The rebates helped fuel a boom in the local debt market as Singapore's millionaires hunted for higher yields in a low- interest world. Sales of non-bank corporate debt in the five years through 2015 rose by almost half over the previous five years. But paying bankers for selling unrated securities suggests that issuers had to try hard to find buyers for their debt.

    "A rebate is given on poor quality credit as a general rule," said Bryan Collins, a Hong Kong-based portfolio manager at Fidelity International, which has US$273 billion of assets under management.

    The practice increased starting in 2012 as a flurry of new names sought capital and investors, Mr Collins said. "These sorts of rebates should be abolished and shouldn't be standard practice, because not all investors who participate in these deals are treated equally."

    MAS said it will continue to work with the industry to help improve secondary market liquidity.

    While private banks in Asia don't publish statistics related to the rebates, bonuses ranged from as high as 1 per cent to 0.1 per cent, according to the Bloomberg News analysis. That means that while institutional investors subscribe at 100 cents on the dollar, wealth managers pay 99 cents to 99.9 cents to the issuers, assuming no other costs.

    The Asia Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association, a Hong Kong-based industry group, recommends that commissions, including the rebates, be disclosed in a bond's offering documents, executive director Vijay Chander said by e- mail.

    "It can be a moral hazard. Do we need to do that to attract investors?" said Raymond Chia, Singapore-based head of credit research for Asia excluding Japan at Schroder Investment Management Ltd.

  21. #2481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeds View Post
    Singapore private banks under scrutiny for earning bonuses by selling risky debt: MAS

    SINGAPORE (BLOOMBERG) - Singapore's private banks are coming under scrutiny for earning bonuses by selling risky debt, as the city sees an unprecedented wave of defaults. The The Monetary Authority of Singapore says an industry group is reviewing the practice.

    Bond issuers offer banks rebates of as much as 1 per cent as incentive to sell unrated securities, according to a Bloomberg News analysis of figures from bond-sale arrangers and compiled by analysts. The payments, which often aren't explained to the banks' clients, have stoked concerns of a conflict of interest, and Fidelity International has called for the practice to be abolished.

    At least half the S$875 million of bonds that have failed since November were sold by private banks earning rebates.

    The defaults have further shaken confidence in Singapore's financial markets. A penny-stock crash, close ties between the local unit of a Swiss bank and a disgraced Malaysian state investment firm and raids on brokerages in a market manipulation probe have kept authorities busy. Undeclared bonuses for selling poor quality debt raise another spectre.

    MASsaid on Thursday (Aug 25) that there's scope for disclosure on rebates to be clarified.
    "Ultimately, safeguards on disclosures complement the broader obligation of private banks to act in the best interests of their clients, taking into account their investment objectives and risk tolerance," MAS said in response to queries. "At the same time, this cannot replace the need for investors to take responsibility for their investments."

    Private banks are expected to uphold "rigorous standards" in dealing with their clients, and that includes disclosing key terms of transactions, fees and conflicts of interest, the regulator said.

    "The private bankers are supposed to look after their clients' interests but this may cause them to put the issuers' interest and their own interest first," Mak Yuen Teen, co-director of the Corporate Governance and Financial Reporting Centre at the National University of Singapore, said, speaking of the rebates. "It poses a conflict."

    Private banks took up 49 to 92 per cent of the unrated notes issued by PT Trikomsel Oke, Pacific Andes Resources Development Ltd and Swiber Holdings Ltd in their sales from April 2013 to October 2014, the Bloomberg News analysis shows. These three companies have defaulted on their bond obligations since November.

    "The practice of sales concessions is not unique to Singapore but is also practiced in other global financial centers," Tan Su Shan, co-chair of MAS's private banking industry group said in a separate statement on Thursday. "There is no explicit requirement currently for distributors to declare the amount of sales concessions received. Some distributors do and others do not."

    There is scope to enhance disclosure to clients, said Ms Tan. The industry group is reviewing the code to require private banks to disclose fees and charges on investment products and services, including bond sales concessions, she said.

    Ms Tan is also group head of consumer banking and wealth management at DBS Group Holdings, Southeast Asia's biggest lender.

    The rebates helped fuel a boom in the local debt market as Singapore's millionaires hunted for higher yields in a low- interest world. Sales of non-bank corporate debt in the five years through 2015 rose by almost half over the previous five years. But paying bankers for selling unrated securities suggests that issuers had to try hard to find buyers for their debt.

    "A rebate is given on poor quality credit as a general rule," said Bryan Collins, a Hong Kong-based portfolio manager at Fidelity International, which has US$273 billion of assets under management.

    The practice increased starting in 2012 as a flurry of new names sought capital and investors, Mr Collins said. "These sorts of rebates should be abolished and shouldn't be standard practice, because not all investors who participate in these deals are treated equally."

    MAS said it will continue to work with the industry to help improve secondary market liquidity.

    While private banks in Asia don't publish statistics related to the rebates, bonuses ranged from as high as 1 per cent to 0.1 per cent, according to the Bloomberg News analysis. That means that while institutional investors subscribe at 100 cents on the dollar, wealth managers pay 99 cents to 99.9 cents to the issuers, assuming no other costs.

    The Asia Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association, a Hong Kong-based industry group, recommends that commissions, including the rebates, be disclosed in a bond's offering documents, executive director Vijay Chander said by e- mail.

    "It can be a moral hazard. Do we need to do that to attract investors?" said Raymond Chia, Singapore-based head of credit research for Asia excluding Japan at Schroder Investment Management Ltd.
    Not only bonds other products like Equity Link Note (ELN), fixed coupon note (FCN), Accumulators on equity & FX, FX option idea where the banks say Britain will stay in EU etc.

    I always think CPF is the most safe with HIGH interest rate. This guy who got $772k @age54 can safely says I am not afraid BIG FINANCIAL CRISIS if it comes.
    Just like what our PM said. "WE ARE NOT AFRAID OF DROUGHT" after 40 over years of water planning.

  22. #2482
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584 View Post
    Not only bonds other products like Equity Link Note (ELN), fixed coupon note (FCN), Accumulators on equity & FX, FX option idea where the banks say Britain will stay in EU etc.

    I always think CPF is the most safe with HIGH interest rate. This guy who got $772k @age54 can safely says I am not afraid BIG FINANCIAL CRISIS if it comes.
    Just like what our PM said. "WE ARE NOT AFRAID OF DROUGHT" after 40 over years of water planning.
    Never trust bankers, security dealers, real estate agent, insurance agent or anyone who is vested. If you are not similar with any instrument, do not invest. For those just starting, try investing in retail bonds which are listed on SGX and are traded like shares. Understand how the price movement and how the market react to bond price. Once you have a good feel of the market, you can start investing in corporate bonds. With MAS making changes to bond investment, corporate bonds may be available soon to retail investors probably at lower quantum if corporate bond issuers are allow to issue such bonds to retail investors after their initial successful launch to corporate investors.

    Agree with you that CPF is the safest investment product now available if you do not need the money for other essentials. Many young adults need to make use of CPF's savings to help finance their homes so that make it impossible to invest the money with CPF.

  23. #2483
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    Think you should state the caveat:
    CPF money has HIGH interest rate (compared to bank deposits) but very much lower return (compared to other investments) AND your money will be stuck until 55 years old (or forever if you don't hit the Minimum Sum).

    The guy who has $772k in CPF is really an idiot in investment (that is what I can say - He doesn't know how much more he can earn through investment and has no ability to do so vs the 2.5% paid by CPF, so may be putting money in CPF is best for him, but NOT everybody is like him and want to be like him).

    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584 View Post
    Not only bonds other products like Equity Link Note (ELN), fixed coupon note (FCN), Accumulators on equity & FX, FX option idea where the banks say Britain will stay in EU etc.

    I always think CPF is the most safe with HIGH interest rate
    . This guy who got $772k @age54 can safely says I am not afraid BIG FINANCIAL CRISIS if it comes.
    Just like what our PM said. "WE ARE NOT AFRAID OF DROUGHT" after 40 over years of water planning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Think you should state the caveat:
    CPF money has HIGH interest rate (compared to bank deposits) but very much lower return (compared to other investments) AND your money will be stuck until 55 years old (or forever if you don't hit the Minimum Sum).

    The guy who has $772k in CPF is really an idiot in investment (that is what I can say - He doesn't know how much more he can earn through investment and has no ability to do so vs the 2.5% paid by CPF, so may be putting money in CPF is best for him, but NOT everybody is like him and want to be like him).
    Agree with you that other investments may generate greater returns than putting money with CPF. Different products for different people. If everyone is a good investor, than no one will put their money with CPF. If you are risk averse, putting more money with CPF is a good option. Hence, I would not think that guy is an idiot in investment, he is simply risk averse and is happy with his returns with CPF given the current low interest environment.

    If you are comfortable with bond investment and able to generate average say 5% pa, than putting your extra cash with CPF is not a good idea. However, if you are not comfortable with bond or other instrument, than instead of putting your extra cash with banks, placing your cash with CPF is a much better option. Having said that, one should also try to maximize the returns from CPF investment by balancing your needs bearing in mind that once extra cash place with CPF means cannot take out till 55 years of age.

  25. #2485
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    Why are people "risk averse"?
    The only only possible reason we can made is that because they don't know how to invest to make higher returns (so not wrong to say they are "idiot in investment"!)

    If the person is skilled in investment, he would perceive that putting his money in CPF is of even HIGHEST risk because got stuck and can't take out, they are just earning low return of 2.5% (and likely to be lower in future as Gov want to peg to 10-year Gov bond).
    The lost opportunity costs/returns is the most pertinent REAL deadly RISK to a skillful investor!

    Quote Originally Posted by Leeds View Post
    Agree with you that other investments may generate greater returns than putting money with CPF. Different products for different people. If everyone is a good investor, than no one will put their money with CPF. If you are risk averse, putting more money with CPF is a good option. Hence, I would not think that guy is an idiot in investment, he is simply risk averse and is happy with his returns with CPF given the current low interest environment.

    If you are comfortable with bond investment and able to generate average say 5% pa, than putting your extra cash with CPF is not a good idea. However, if you are not comfortable with bond or other instrument, than instead of putting your extra cash with banks, placing your cash with CPF is a much better option. Having said that, one should also try to maximize the returns from CPF investment by balancing your needs bearing in mind that once extra cash place with CPF means cannot take out till 55 years of age.

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    Having $772k in CPF when u reach 55 is not investment idiot. His original money can be less than 50%. The rest come from compounding interest.

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    Only an investment idiot will be happy to have his money stuck for long long time just to earn only 2.5% return.................

    Quote Originally Posted by indomie View Post
    Having $772k in CPF when u reach 55 is not investment idiot. His original money can be less than 50%. The rest come from compounding interest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Why are people "risk averse"?
    The only only possible reason we can made is that because they don't know how to invest to make higher returns (so not wrong to say they are "idiot in investment"!)

    If the person is skilled in investment, he would perceive that putting his money in CPF is of even HIGHEST risk because got stuck and can't take out, they are just earning low return of 2.5% (and likely to be lower in future as Gov want to peg to 10-year Gov bond).
    The lost opportunity costs/returns is the most pertinent REAL deadly RISK to a skillful investor!
    There is a different in meaning if one is an idiot in investment vs "idiot" in investment vs "idiot in investment" depending on your intent. Obviously, this guy has good knowledge in getting the best out of his CPF's savings and investment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Only an investment idiot will be happy to have his money stuck for long long time just to earn only 2.5% return.................
    He was good for his time. It wasn't always 2.5%. For a long time the interest rate manage to outperform inflation. http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/site...estrates_0.jpg

  30. #2490
    teddybear's Avatar
    teddybear is offline Global recession is coming....
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    Don't think you can say "good knowledge" though for an investment idiot.....
    I would think that the right term to use is that for his poor investment knowledge and hence that is the best he can hope for by putting most of his money in CPF (even when CPF interest rate become peg to 10-year Gov bond rate and will be much lower than 2.5% pa).

    Quote Originally Posted by Leeds View Post
    There is a different in meaning if one is an idiot in investment vs "idiot" in investment vs "idiot in investment" depending on your intent. Obviously, this guy has good knowledge in getting the best out of his CPF's savings and investment.

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