BOND THREAD

[starrynight]

Words of the wise. I have much to learn from you.

In the meantime, I try to manage my risk by buying higher-risk issues only if the maturity is fairly short.

Collateral loans are used when the lender (bank) wants some assurance that they won’t lose all their money.When using a collateral loan, you give the bank the right to take your asset if you can’t repay.

If you pledge an 100% paid property as collateral, they can take the property, sell it, and get their money back in the event your investment really go bad. So Patience , timing & fear investing are very very important.


===============================================
Buddha Quote on Anger, Forgiveness, and Compassion.
“To understand everything is to forgive everything.”

To really understand fear, patience & herd investing is to profit from fear, patience & Herd investing.


===============================================
Positive thinking Quotes.
The older I get, the less I care about what people think of me. Therefore the older I get, the more I enjoy life.

So when comes to investing. The older I get, the more experience I have. So the less I trust the Analyst stock recommendations, Goldman sach , Citibank , CS , SC , Morgan , SG stock gurus , friend & colleague hearsay investment tips etc etc.

The older I get, I firmly believe that GREED investing , Herd investing, frequent trading of stocks , high leveraging in speculative derivative product (ELN , FCN , Accumulator ) , FX trading etc is a guarantee for failure in long run. So the older I get, the more I trust “FEAR investing” , INCOME investing , Patient INVESTING , BLUE CHIP investing & contrarian investing.


Experience comes from many mistakes made , learn from it & survived. Foolish mistakes, stupid (repeated) mistakes , hopeless mistakes (repeated same old mistakes many times) , "too trusting" mistakes (100% believe in Guru recommendation), Greedy (high yield as 1st priority, forgetting about the high risk) mistakes , impatience mistakes, extreme over leverage (b4 Lehman crisis) mistakes , speculative penny stock mistakes etc etc.

[starrynight]

You raise a good point. That said, I know a person who has been able to do what is mentioned without having TDSR issues.

If u pledge your property to take secured term loan, this is still equity loan subject to tdsr. This kind of secured loan is not new. If foreign pb bank can skip this then wonder if there is a loop hole.

[cbsh38584]

From Straits times
Bonds back in favour with investors :Survey
===========================

More Singaporean investors are looking to invest in bond this year, a study has revealed. Equities remained popular. Property become the least popular asset class for the 1st time - Although about 60% still felt property was investable for long run.



China developers selling bonds to affluent S'pore investors
====================================
Private banks bought 79% of central China real estate (CCRE) which Capland is one of the substantial shareholder (>20%). The Henan-base developer paid 6.5% coupon SGD bond on the 3 years securities.

I bought the previous central china real estate SGD 10.75% bond in 2012 which is due in 2016. Price is around 107. The LTV is 60%.


1st batch of Central china real estate SGD bond issued in 2012.
Currency SGD
Min amount SGD$250k
Coupon 10.75%
Matured in Apr 2016.
Junk bond - non investment grade
LTV 60%

Your Cash required = S$100k (40%X 250k )

Your Borrowed amt = S$(60%X250k) = S$150k

Bond Coupon Yield = 10.75%

Coupon $$$ = 10.75% X S$250k = S$26,875 yearly

Your loan interest = (1.1% X S$150k)
= S$1650 (interest paid/year)

Safekeeping Fee = 0.2% or S$200 per year

Net cash = US$(26875 - 1650 - 200 ) = S$25025 /year

Return of investment % = (S$25025 /$100,000)
= 25% with leveraging with RISK.


http://tradehaven.net/ website is very educational. This guy is expert in bond.

[Werther]

From Straits times
Bonds back in favour with investors :Survey
===========================

More Singaporean investors are looking to invest in bond this year, a study has revealed. Equities remained popular. Property become the least popular asset class for the 1st time - Although about 60% still felt property was investable for long run.



China developers selling bonds to affluent S'pore investors
====================================
Private banks bought 79% of central China real estate (CCRE) which Capland is one of the substantial shareholder (>20%). The Henan-base developer paid 6.5% coupon SGD bond on the 3 years securities.

I bought the previous central china real estate SGD 10.75% bond in 2012 which is due in 2016. Price is around 107. The LTV is 60%.


1st batch of Central china real estate SGD bond issued in 2012.
Currency SGD
Min amount SGD$250k
Coupon 10.75%
Matured in Apr 2016.
Junk bond - non investment grade
LTV 60%

Your Cash required = S$100k (40%X 250k )

Your Borrowed amt = S$(60%X250k) = S$150k

Bond Coupon Yield = 10.75%

Coupon $$$ = 10.75% X S$250k = S$26,875 yearly

Your loan interest = (1.1% X S$150k)
= S$1650 (interest paid/year)

Safekeeping Fee = 0.2% or S$200 per year

Net cash = US$(26875 - 1650 - 200 ) = S$25025 /year

Return of investment % = (S$25025 /$100,000)
= 25% with leveraging with RISK.


http://tradehaven.net/ website is very educational. This guy is expert in bond.

Hi CBSH

Envy you that you do so well in bond investing. Anywhere to learn this sort of investing? besides talking to my RM, you know, they always like to push u the products? This tradehaven conduct paid classes or not?

Thanks

[cbsh38584]

Hi CBSH

Envy you that you do so well in bond investing. Anywhere to learn this sort of investing? besides talking to my RM, you know, they always like to push u the products? This tradehaven conduct paid classes or not?

Thanks

This tradehaven. bond expertise has been thinking of conducting a seminar since last year. So far no news from him. You can register & ask him more about bond. He is so far the only person that has more than 10 to 20 year experience in fixed income. I started only in 2010.


Maybe you can buy some amt of Fullerton income bond fund from online (sales charge cheaper). Return 3.5% to 4.5%. This fullertion income bond fund has a LTV of 85% in private bank. The risk is low. Get a feel of it. Or U should wait for the next retail IPO SGD bond & apply for a small amt.

The recent capitalmall retail SGD bond 3.08% IPO this year @ par (1.00) has done quite well. Price now is 1.012 to sell.


Or wait for Temasel holding news about retail bond.
SINGAPORE - Temasek Holdings assured retail investors yesterday that they remain part of its investing strategy over the long term. The investment firm said that it still intends to allow retail investors to buy into its much-coveted bonds, a co-investing notion first raised by its chief executive Ho Ching five years ago. The aim is part of long-term plans to expand Temasek's stakeholder pool. Temasek president Lee Theng Kiat said in a statement yesterday: "One of Temasek's longheld aspirations is to have long-term minded retail investors, especially retail investors in Singapore, co-invest alongside us." - See more at: http://business.asiaone.com/news/ret....r1URYdyu.dpuf

[cbsh38584]

The Housing and Development Board (HDB) has issued $750 million, 7-year Fixed Rate Notes under its $22 billion Multicurrency Medium Term Note (MTN) Programme. The Notes have a coupon of 3.008 per cent per annum payable semi-annually in arrear. Issues on March 26, the notes will mature on March 26, 2021


HDB straight bond
Currency SGD
Min amount SGD$250k
Coupon 3.008%
7 years
Matured in Mar 2021.
Not rated due to it "Brand name"
LTV 80%

Your Cash required = S$50(20%X 250k )

Your Borrowed amt = S$(80%X250k) = S$200k

Bond Coupon Yield = 3.008%

Coupon $$$ = 3.008% X S$250k = S$7,520 yearly

Your loan interest = (1.1% X S$200k)
= S$2000 (interest paid/year)

Safekeeping Fee = 0.2% or S$200 per year (Some other bank is FOC)

Net cash = US$(7520 - 2000 - 200 ) =S$5320 /year

Return of investment % = (S$5500 /$50000)
= 10.6% with leveraging.

Pricing is now 101.5 to sell. To buy is 102.5 (YTM 2.61%).

If he/she already has a equity and with a fixed interest rate of 1.88% for 7 yrs & buy HDB 7 years bond with coupon 3.008%. Net off 1% gain with low risk. The only risk is HDB (our SG government) bankrupt.

I believe the bankers will not recommend HDB bond as they do not have any commission from selling government HDB bond.

[teddybear]

Your calculation seems to be wrong because YTM is 2.61% and not 3.008%?

The Housing and Development Board (HDB) has issued $750 million, 7-year Fixed Rate Notes under its $22 billion Multicurrency Medium Term Note (MTN) Programme. The Notes have a coupon of 3.008 per cent per annum payable semi-annually in arrear. Issues on March 26, the notes will mature on March 26, 2021


HDB straight bond
Currency SGD
Min amount SGD$250k
Coupon 3.008%
7 years
Matured in Mar 2021.
Not rated due to it "Brand name"
LTV 80%

Your Cash required = S$50(20%X 250k )

Your Borrowed amt = S$(80%X250k) = S$200k

Bond Coupon Yield = 3.008%

Coupon $$$ = 3.008% X S$250k = S$7,520 yearly

Your loan interest = (1.1% X S$200k)
= S$2000 (interest paid/year)

Safekeeping Fee = 0.2% or S$200 per year (Some other bank is FOC)

Net cash = US$(7520 - 2000 - 200 ) =S$5320 /year

Return of investment % = (S$5500 /$50000)
= 10.6% with leveraging.

Pricing is now 101.5 to sell. To buy is 102.5 (YTM 2.61%).

If he/she already has a equity and with a fixed interest rate of 1.88% for 7 yrs & buy HDB 7 years bond with coupon 3.008%. Net off 1% gain with low risk. The only risk is HDB (our SG government) bankrupt.

I believe the bankers will not recommend HDB bond as they do not have any commission from selling government HDB bond.

[Werther]

This tradehaven. bond expertise has been thinking of conducting a seminar since last year. So far no news from him. You can register & ask him more about bond. He is so far the only person that has more than 10 to 20 year experience in fixed income. I started only in 2010.


Maybe you can buy some amt of Fullerton income bond fund from online (sales charge cheaper). Return 3.5% to 4.5%. This fullertion income bond fund has a LTV of 85% in private bank. The risk is low. Get a feel of it. Or U should wait for the next retail IPO SGD bond & apply for a small amt.

The recent capitalmall retail SGD bond 3.08% IPO this year @ par (1.00) has done quite well. Price now is 1.012 to sell.


Or wait for Temasel holding news about retail bond.
SINGAPORE - Temasek Holdings assured retail investors yesterday that they remain part of its investing strategy over the long term. The investment firm said that it still intends to allow retail investors to buy into its much-coveted bonds, a co-investing notion first raised by its chief executive Ho Ching five years ago. The aim is part of long-term plans to expand Temasek's stakeholder pool. Temasek president Lee Theng Kiat said in a statement yesterday: "One of Temasek's longheld aspirations is to have long-term minded retail investors, especially retail investors in Singapore, co-invest alongside us." - See more at: http://business.asiaone.com/news/ret....r1URYdyu.dpuf

Hi cbsh

Thanks for the heads-up. Must find time to learn this sort of investing.

[cbsh38584]

The Housing and Development Board (HDB) has issued $750 million, 7-year Fixed Rate Notes under its $22 billion Multicurrency Medium Term Note (MTN) Programme. The Notes have a coupon of 3.008 per cent per annum payable semi-annually in arrear. Issues on March 26, the notes will mature on March 26, 2021


HDB straight bond
Currency SGD
Min amount SGD$250k
Coupon 3.008%
7 years
Matured in Mar 2021.
Not rated due to it "Brand name"
LTV 80%

Your Cash required = S$50(20%X 250k )

Your Borrowed amt = S$(80%X250k) = S$200k

Bond Coupon Yield = 3.008%

Coupon $$$ = 3.008% X S$250k = S$7,520 yearly

Your loan interest = (1.1% X S$200k)
= S$2000 (interest paid/year)

Safekeeping Fee = 0.2% or S$200 per year (Some other bank is FOC)

Net cash = US$(7520 - 2000 - 200 ) =S$5320 /year

Return of investment % = (S$5500 /$50000)
= 10.6% with leveraging.

Pricing is now 101.5 to sell. To buy is 102.5 (YTM 2.61%).

If he/she already has a equity and with a fixed interest rate of 1.88% for 7 yrs & buy HDB 7 years bond with coupon 3.008%. Net off 1% gain with low risk. The only risk is HDB (our SG government) bankrupt.

I believe the bankers will not recommend HDB bond as they do not have any commission from selling government HDB bond.

Sorry, the return of investment % should be S$5320/50000 = 10.6%
Price to buy now is 102.5 which the YTM is 2.61%.

Capitalmall 3.08% 7 yrs Bond vs HDB 3.008 7 yrs bond. I will chose HDB bond.

Capitalmall private placement (S$250k) price to sell is only 100.5 (est). HDB price to sell is 101.5 (est). Although HDB coupon (3.008%) is slightly lower than capitalmall (3.08%). But HDB bond price (101.5) to sell is higher.

[smallant]

Bro; where to find 1.1% cheap fund ? Txs in advance for advice.

[cbsh38584]

Bro; where to find 1.1% cheap fund ? Txs in advance for advice.

From PB.
It is a weekly or monthly roll over @ range 1.02 to 1.1% per annual for almost > 2 years. But I believe soon it may slowly move up next year.
Example

From Value Date - 30 Nov13
To value date - 31 Dec13
Interest rate - 1.0547% (range from 1.05 to 1.1%)
Days - 31
Basic - Actual/365

Principal SGD $387,594
interest SGD $347 for 31 days.


If I will to fix one year roll over , it will be much higher than 1.1%. Maybe 1.3 to 1.35. So far I did only roll over weekly or fortnightly or monthly. I believe it may slowly move up to above 1.1% by next year.

============================================
Another guy from priority banking said that his borrowing cost is more or less the same as PB. But I do not know which bank (DBS ?).

SGD rates 1-year is 1.33%, and 1-month is around 1.1%

[smallant]

No wonder bro... txs for the tip..

[cbsh38584]

Lippomall 4.88% SGD bond due July 2015 to buy at 102 (S$ 5 million order) in the OTC market in the late morning. Within half an hour, It was taken up. YTM is 3% for 14 mths. LTV 80%. By the time, I call in to place the order, it was already taken up.

[banana55]

Lippomall 4.88% SGD bond due July 2015 to buy at 102 (S$ 5 million order) in the OTC market in the late morning. Within half an hour, It was taken up. YTM is 3% for 14 mths. LTV 80%. By the time, I call in to place the order, it was already taken up.

Hmm I was informed about it at 11am but turned it down. The seller must be someone special to have RM's working hard at peddling the same wares around. Manage to go through the call logs and can confirm I was offered at 3.3% YTM @ 101.67 px with 3.5m size available.

[cbsh38584]

Hmm I was informed about it at 11am but turned it down. The seller must be someone special to have RM's working hard at peddling the same wares around. Manage to go through the call logs and can confirm I was offered at 3.3% YTM @ 101.67 px with 3.5m size available.

Thank for the info.

[banana55]

Thank for the info.

Most welcome. Was a pity they had not reached out to you earlier instead which could allow you the purchase.

[cbsh38584]

Most welcome. Was a pity they had not reached out to you earlier instead which could allow you the purchase.

I missed my banker call as I was busy. By the time I return the call to him. It is already sold. But my banker through his bond dealer may have quoted a higher price (102 Vs 101.67) than other bank. But it has a higher LTV (80%) than other bank (zero LTV due to small issue size).

I usually have two quotes (bank A & Bank B) avail b4 I buy the bond. If the different is not much, I will buy from that bank that give the highest LTV.

[cbsh38584]

NQ Mobile Inc. (NQ), the Chinese mobile services provider accused by short seller Muddy Waters of overstating revenue.

NQ has lost 39 percent since Oct. 23, the day before Muddy Waters founder Carson Block said the company was “a massive fraud” and the shares are worth less than $1. Investors including Toro Investment Partners LP and Oberweis Asset Management Inc. have increased their holdings as NQ Mobile has said its accounting and businesses are legitimate.

The price is now US$7.30. Let see whether NQ mobile Inc can survive the attack by Moody waters.

[banana55]

I missed my banker call as I was busy. By the time I return the call to him. It is already sold. But my banker through his bond dealer may have quoted a higher price (102 Vs 101.67) than other bank. But it has a higher LTV (80%) than other bank (zero LTV due to small issue size).

I usually have two quotes (bank A & Bank B) avail b4 I buy the bond. If the different is not much, I will buy from that bank that give the highest LTV.

Makes sense to obtain more than one quote and agreed on going with the more generous LTV part. 101.67 was quoted exclusive of commissions, but 0.33 of commission to make 102.00 is still somewhat high if you had been quoted a nett figure since I would think you should receive better comm rates given your activity.

I was told from another source I met during dinner that this particular offer was made known to him earlier this week, before we heard of it at least. No surprises of special treatment that exist in murky OTC environments, but we'll never know unless people are willing to talk about it.

[starrynight]

Vic:

Stupid question - there is no central depository for bonds right? So if I buy from Bank X, I can't sell through / to Bank Y in future? My point is that there is a risk that we get a cheaper buy price from Bank X, but they "screw" you in future when you want to sell?

Thanks,

I missed my banker call as I was busy. By the time I return the call to him. It is already sold. But my banker through his bond dealer may have quoted a higher price (102 Vs 101.67) than other bank. But it has a higher LTV (80%) than other bank (zero LTV due to small issue size).

I usually have two quotes (bank A & Bank B) avail b4 I buy the bond. If the different is not much, I will buy from that bank that give the highest LTV.

[cbsh38584]

Last year, I thought of transfering one of my SG bond to OCBC priority bank. The banker told said that if it is a SG listed companies in SGX. They can help to arrange to transfer to a central depository so that I do not have to pay for the custodian fee.

I did not ask in detail as OCBC do have any LTV for that bond I want to transfer to & they also don't carry Tokio marine insurance which I intend to buy for my children. My intention is to use the coupon collected from the bond to pay for my children insurance plan.

But I believe PB will not do it as they need this custodian fee for their operational cost. I am not sure for DBS priority banking. U may ask your banker as OCBC banker told me it is possible.


My capitalmall 3.08% SGD retail bond is in the CDP. So I can sell through Phillip or UOB or CIMB etc. So are those retail bond listed in SGX like Genting Perp 5.125 , Capitalmall asia 3.8% , Hyflux Perp 6% etc are all in the central depository.


Example. Let say if your banker can transfer capitalmall 3.08% SGD bond private tranche (S$250k) to CDP. I think U cant sell through SGX as it is a different tranche placement. But I believe U can sell through other bank. It need to be reconfirmed. I will ask my banker from Local bank, not foreign bank.


I bought Trikomsel 5.25% SGD bond (LTV 70%) last year. B4 I buy, I got 2 quotes. . Bank A banker quote 95 .Bank B banker quote 97.About 2% different (or S$5000) . I just ignore bank B quote & buy from bank A. But I believe bank B banker quote higher is because he wants to have a high commission from selling the bond which I think it is understandable. So it is better to have 2 quotes.

For 1st timer, some priority banker will just tell U that the new issue bond is priced @ 100.4 (PB is 100). But in actual fact, it should be 100.2 or 100.25 or even 100. So the banker just want to earn a higher commission .

It is just like unit trust. Initially they tell U sale charge is 5%. If U nego , it reduce to 3%. If you nego further, your sale charge may come down to 2.5%. But now U can buy through online @ 1% sale charge or even 0%.

[DC33_2008]

Is it safe to hold on to GLP bonds? Just did a review and it has gone up by 15% with reasonable returns from bonds.

Last year, I thought of transfering one of my SG bond to OCBC priority bank. The banker told said that if it is a SG listed companies in SGX. They can help to arrange to transfer to a central depository so that I do not have to pay for the custodian fee.

I did not ask in detail as OCBC do have any LTV for that bond I want to transfer to & they also don't carry Tokio marine insurance which I intend to buy for my children. My intention is to use the coupon collected from the bond to pay for my children insurance plan.

But I believe PB will not do it as they need this custodian fee for their operational cost. I am not sure for DBS priority banking. U may ask your banker as OCBC banker told me it is possible.


My capitalmall 3.08% SGD retail bond is in the CDP. So I can sell through Phillip or UOB or CIMB etc. So are those retail bond listed in SGX like Genting Perp 5.125 , Capitalmall asia 3.8% , Hyflux Perp 6% etc are all in the central depository.


Example. Let say if your banker can transfer capitalmall 3.08% SGD bond private tranche (S$250k) to CDP. I think U cant sell through SGX as it is a different tranche placement. But I believe U can sell through other bank. It need to be reconfirmed. I will ask my banker from Local bank, not foreign bank.


I bought Trikomsel 5.25% SGD bond (LTV 70%) last year. B4 I buy, I got 2 quotes. . Bank A banker quote 95 .Bank B banker quote 97.About 2% different (or S$5000) . I just ignore bank B quote & buy from bank A. But I believe bank B banker quote higher is because he wants to have a high commission from selling the bond which I think it is understandable. So it is better to have 2 quotes.

For 1st timer, some priority banker will just tell U that the new issue bond is priced @ 100.4 (PB is 100). But in actual fact, it should be 100.2 or 100.25 or even 100. So the banker just want to earn a higher commission .

It is just like unit trust. Initially they tell U sale charge is 5%. If U nego , it reduce to 3%. If you nego further, your sale charge may come down to 2.5%. But now U can buy through online @ 1% sale charge or even 0%.

[cbsh38584]

Is it safe to hold on to GLP bonds? Just did a review and it has gone up by 15% with reasonable returns from bonds.

I think you are referring the GLP 5.5% SGD perp bond callable in 2017. The price has moved up. The buy price will be around 105 which is YTCall est 3.6% to 3.8% depending on your buy price. It should be safe as it is 50% own by GIC.

I think the guy from Tradehaven (http://tradehaven.net/) is a expert in fixed income. He will be a better person to seek advise on the price entry.

[DC33_2008]

Thanks. Bought some in 2010/2011.

I think you are referring the GLP 5.5% SGD perp bond callable in 2017. The price has moved up. The buy price will be around 105 which is YTCall est 3.6% to 3.8% depending on your buy price. It should be safe as it is 50% own by GIC.

I think the guy from Tradehaven (http://tradehaven.net/) is a expert in fixed income. He will be a better person to seek advise on the price entry.

[cbsh38584]

The POWER of Your Subconscious Mind .

Why is one man sad and another man happy? Why is one man joyous and prosperous and another man poor and miserable? Why is one man a great success and another an abject failure? Why is one man healed of a so-called incurable disease and another isn’t? Why is one woman happily married and her sister very unhappy and frustrated?

Your subconscious has the answer to all problems. Your subconscious mind is the builder of your body and can heal you. One of the way to trigger your subconscious mind is to listen to Music & motivational Song.


Musical therapists have found that listening to classical & motivational music or Song can awaken one’s higher brain functions, boost their capacity for intellectual thought and increase their intuition and creative imagination. Relax in your quite room & play & close your eye to listen to good & motivational song.

Have a nice good weekend listening to this motivational Song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fVsAzVh2-0

[DC33_2008]

Especially when one want to focus on something like sports. Know of national level sportsman who will listen to their favourite music before the start of the event.

The POWER of Your Subconscious Mind .

Why is one man sad and another man happy? Why is one man joyous and prosperous and another man poor and miserable? Why is one man a great success and another an abject failure? Why is one man healed of a so-called incurable disease and another isn’t? Why is one woman happily married and her sister very unhappy and frustrated?

Your subconscious has the answer to all problems. Your subconscious mind is the builder of your body and can heal you. One of the way to trigger your subconscious mind is to listen to Music & motivational Song.


Musical therapists have found that listening to classical & motivational music or Song can awaken one’s higher brain functions, boost their capacity for intellectual thought and increase their intuition and creative imagination. Relax in your quite room & play & close your eye to listen to good & motivational song.

Have a nice good weekend listening to this motivational Song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fVsAzVh2-0

[starrynight]

Thanks Vic. I will ask my DBS banker when I next talk to him, and report back. Good to share such things

Last year, I thought of transfering one of my SG bond to OCBC priority bank. The banker told said that if it is a SG listed companies in SGX. They can help to arrange to transfer to a central depository so that I do not have to pay for the custodian fee.

I did not ask in detail as OCBC do have any LTV for that bond I want to transfer to & they also don't carry Tokio marine insurance which I intend to buy for my children. My intention is to use the coupon collected from the bond to pay for my children insurance plan.

But I believe PB will not do it as they need this custodian fee for their operational cost. I am not sure for DBS priority banking. U may ask your banker as OCBC banker told me it is possible.


My capitalmall 3.08% SGD retail bond is in the CDP. So I can sell through Phillip or UOB or CIMB etc. So are those retail bond listed in SGX like Genting Perp 5.125 , Capitalmall asia 3.8% , Hyflux Perp 6% etc are all in the central depository.


Example. Let say if your banker can transfer capitalmall 3.08% SGD bond private tranche (S$250k) to CDP. I think U cant sell through SGX as it is a different tranche placement. But I believe U can sell through other bank. It need to be reconfirmed. I will ask my banker from Local bank, not foreign bank.


I bought Trikomsel 5.25% SGD bond (LTV 70%) last year. B4 I buy, I got 2 quotes. . Bank A banker quote 95 .Bank B banker quote 97.About 2% different (or S$5000) . I just ignore bank B quote & buy from bank A. But I believe bank B banker quote higher is because he wants to have a high commission from selling the bond which I think it is understandable. So it is better to have 2 quotes.

For 1st timer, some priority banker will just tell U that the new issue bond is priced @ 100.4 (PB is 100). But in actual fact, it should be 100.2 or 100.25 or even 100. So the banker just want to earn a higher commission .

It is just like unit trust. Initially they tell U sale charge is 5%. If U nego , it reduce to 3%. If you nego further, your sale charge may come down to 2.5%. But now U can buy through online @ 1% sale charge or even 0%.

[banana55]

Starry, from the little that I understand, there is a CDP Sub account where bond can be kept in custody with. There is a quarterly fee to the tune of $7+ (if memory serves) and when the custody of bonds are kept in such manner, I believe you can sell them through any dealer that you have an account with, which means you don't have to go back to use the same insti where you first bought the bonds to begin. I am not certain regarding the criteria of bonds that qualifies for CDP sub account custody, but I could say that if the RM is nice, he could waive off the quarterly fees from first hand encounter. Also, you might want to confirm ahead whether $7+ is applicable for each bond, or unlimited number of bonds to a CDP sub account because I only had 1 bond back in the day being custodized this way.

At PB level, I doubt they use CDP sub accounts for bond custody and appoint their own custodian instead, which helps generate fee income on custody services. I'm too cheap to pay for the custody fees so I insisted they waive it for all equities and bonds before I signed up.

[starrynight]

B55, really appreciate this! Will ask my banker. I only have an account with DBS, but would be good to know that we are not held ransom to a single price-maker

Starry, from the little that I understand, there is a CDP Sub account where bond can be kept in custody with. There is a quarterly fee to the tune of $7+ (if memory serves) and when the custody of bonds are kept in such manner, I believe you can sell them through any dealer that you have an account with, which means you don't have to go back to use the same insti where you first bought the bonds to begin. I am not certain regarding the criteria of bonds that qualifies for CDP sub account custody, but I could say that if the RM is nice, he could waive off the quarterly fees from first hand encounter. Also, you might want to confirm ahead whether $7+ is applicable for each bond, or unlimited number of bonds to a CDP sub account because I only had 1 bond back in the day being custodized this way.

At PB level, I doubt they use CDP sub accounts for bond custody and appoint their own custodian instead, which helps generate fee income on custody services. I'm too cheap to pay for the custody fees so I insisted they waive it for all equities and bonds before I signed up.

[cbsh38584]

B55, really appreciate this! Will ask my banker. I only have an account with DBS, but would be good to know that we are not held ransom to a single price-maker

It cant be avoided unless U have a good relationship with your banker or U have accessed to Bloomberg Bond price which it liquid. If it is a illiquid issued bond, you may not get a reasonable pricing. U just have to accept what is given to U.

I sold my Shui On 8% SGD Bond @103.75 at Bank A. But ONLY min later, I check with bank B. The price to sell is 104.2. It is OK with me because my banker A has been always helpful to get the info I request.