Talk of recovery of high end market is it bull?

[Werther]

whats the unit size and how many bedroom?

4- bedroom, size 2000 sq ft bah.

[3C]

That's the reason I bought OCR MM or 1 bedderjb > 500 SF. Rent 2k still got 5% yield. Market now abt 2 to 2.5K.

[DC33_2008]

Amazing. Price has really gone up so much. Bought a CCR 999LH 2 bedder of 1055 sqft at about $1200psf in 2011. Even suburb area is more than this.

Large quantum rental >7k these days harder to rent out. Small is gd, buy too big in CCR die pain pain either vacant or shitty yield as news highlighted over n over again.

For CCR studio now easily 1.1-1.2mil. 4k on average is still okish. The only real MM unit for skysuites @ CBD in terms of quantum, averaging 700k+ can rent at 3k without any problem for those on housing budget cuts.

Massive supply of 1.8k units over 6yrs at least. Rental wise, everything back to fundamentals, with increasing supply and if demand does not meet it will be affected not doubt and it applies in all districts

[august]

Something is not right in CCR.

My friend has a unit in Cosmo, opp great world, vacant for 4 month, no offer, asking $8k +. He told me used to go very quickly but this time since tenant vacated, cannot rent.. Kind of worry now cos every month need to pay cash for mortgage.

what is the unit type? is he willing to sell at a bargain?

[bargain hunter]

cosmo 4 bedder is 1679 sq ft. nonetheless, as bro dtrax pointed out, above 7k harder to rent out.

4- bedroom, size 2000 sq ft bah.

[hopeful]

4- bedroom, size 2000 sq ft bah.

Maybe tenants moving to Martin Place Residence? 4bedder 1894sqft at MPR also 8k+.

[bargain hunter]

there are 93 adverts for rental for the 4 bedders at cosmo. something is indeed strange. i have never seen so many repeated ads before!

there are 5 caveats for such units in the past 2 years. prices ranged from 3.24m to 3.525m. rental needs to be 8.1k for the gross yield to be 3% for the 3.24m unit.

cosmo 4 bedder is 1679 sq ft. nonetheless, as bro dtrax pointed out, above 7k harder to rent out.

[amk]

Cosmo is a nice project. The 3 new projects in RV are moving away the tenants I think. Simple supply and demand. Just like Newton/Novena situation.

[bargain hunter]

for nov, 2 rental contracts for 4 bedder of 1679 sq ft at cosmo were secured. one at 8.25k and the other at 9.2k.

martin place 1894 sq ft surely cannot get under 9k rite? 3 rental contracts were at 9.2k, 9.5k and 10k for jan and feb.

but the 1722 sq ft 3+study would be a threat to cosmo's 4 bedder. bigger size, more spacious and away from traffic noise. new, more complete facilities and bigger compound! most of those (8 out of 11) are indeed tenanted out at between 8 to 8.9k.

Maybe tenants moving to Martin Place Residence? 4bedder 1894sqft at MPR also 8k+.

[bargain hunter]

but compared to nearby large scale projects, it really loses out doesn't it?

Cosmo is a nice project. The 3 new projects in RV are moving away the tenants I think. Simple supply and demand. Just like Newton/Novena situation.

[amk]

but compared to nearby large scale projects, it really loses out doesn't it?

Yes lose out. The newer ones look better. Newer, shinier, tenants always prefer new. 8/9k are the same band of demand. (and, the one *really* in front of great world city is not Cosmo, bt something else that happen to be be new and large units too)
Although Cosmo owners dun really need to rent at 8k since most of them got it earlier.

[bargain hunter]

cosmo was a luxury for that very low pre 2007 psf level that 1st owners paid.

Yes lose out. The newer ones look better. Newer, shinier, tenants always prefer new. 8/9k are the same band of demand. (and, the one *really* in front of great world city is not Cosmo, bt something else that happen to be be new and large units too)
Although Cosmo owners dun really need to rent at 8k since most of them got it earlier.

[DKSG]

but compared to nearby large scale projects, it really loses out doesn't it?

Bargain Hunter is indeed an expert - KUDOS !

Something I feel compelled to voice out about yields.
Traditional views of yields and how much it should be needs to be tweaked when interest rates stays below 1% for a prolonged period.

If you have been to showflats and listening to more amateur buyers you will understand where they are coming from.

Leaving tons of cash in the bank now is striking fear to many people as they see their $500K buying lesser and lesser things each year.

So, Office Boy share with you here : Yield should be viewed in the context of interest rates. If interest rates is 2.5%, your yield of 4% is consider worse than when interest rate is 0.9% and your yield is just 2.9%.

Got it ? If not, I also cannot help you liao !

DKSG

[Werther]

for nov, 2 rental contracts for 4 bedder of 1679 sq ft at cosmo were secured. one at 8.25k and the other at 9.2k.

martin place 1894 sq ft surely cannot get under 9k rite? 3 rental contracts were at 9.2k, 9.5k and 10k for jan and feb.

but the 1722 sq ft 3+study would be a threat to cosmo's 4 bedder. bigger size, more spacious and away from traffic noise. new, more complete facilities and bigger compound! most of those (8 out of 11) are indeed tenanted out at between 8 to 8.9k.

Hi bargain hunter

Thanks for the update. Wow, someone managed to rent above $9k, must be on very high floor. My friend unit is above 22 nd floor.

Can u reveal how you can check the rental transactions? From sisv or property guru? Tks

[amk]

cosmo was a luxury for that very low pre 2007 psf level that 1st owners paid.

In 2004, 1200psf was a lot of money, almost matching orchard road.

Wheelock made a lot of money from this. In fact this is what triggered SPH to do pty development itself, since it sold times house so cheap.

werther, u dun know u can check rental contracts directly from URA ?? Just go to the usual place where u see caveats, there is another item for rental contacts.

[Werther]

In 2004, 1200psf was a lot of money, almost matching orchard road.

werther, u dun know u can check rental contracts directly from URA ?? Just go to the usual place where u see caveats, there is another item for rental contacts.

Thanks AMK for the info.

[dtrax]

there are 93 adverts for rental for the 4 bedders at cosmo. something is indeed strange. i have never seen so many repeated ads before!

there are 5 caveats for such units in the past 2 years. prices ranged from 3.24m to 3.525m. rental needs to be 8.1k for the gross yield to be 3% for the 3.24m unit.

So can conclude everything back to fundamentals?

★ 1. Now market buay sai absorb high rental rates 7-8k or more due to more expats or local package, smaller housing budget, decentralization, finance industry and the list goes on... If 8k still cannot rent, the only way is drop rental and drop selling price in order to entice buyers with gd yield [>3% at the very least]. Think many bros here also agree that those rental in this region and higher is kinda difficult to rent out unless anyone can show otherwise, that will be a good point of discussion

★ 2. The large quantum CCR >3mil will stay muted as long as the super rich FT are not hooting as much as the peak:


Table 2.1: Stats never lie

Echelon should sell pretty well in the region of 1.2-1.99mil. As to why Echelon can sell but Sky Habitat cannot sell, I think we should see SH should be clearing units soon if Echelon sales result is damn rosy this wk with all the hype on nearby land parcels and insane HDB price support


Table 2.2: No FT here Hoot No Talk: 2012 FT purchases only 40% of the 2007 FT purchases

★ 3. No need think so much, small is gd. Get small rent out gd yield. Only those homestayers are hooting larger units or PH with PSF that makes sense in today's market [i.e CityLife Presidential Suite PH 4XXpsf vs 800psf for standard units]. Dont you think it is weird when u see smallish units can even rent as high as better non-MMs?



Well can argue some maybe be due to furnish/partial furnish, patio/non-patio but smallish size is definitely gd to rent and the way to gooo

[bargain hunter]

no wor. cosmo in 2005 was sold below 1000psf. i think it started selling before 2005? rivergate was first sold in 2005 at 1000psf so cosmo i think was sold before that and at lower psf?

In 2005, 1200psf was a lot of money, almost matching orchard road.

Wheelock made a lot of money from this. In fact this is what triggered SPH to do pty development itself, since it sold times house so cheap.

werther, u dun know u can check rental contracts directly from URA ?? Just go to the usual place where u see caveats, there is another item for rental contacts.

[amk]

Always back to fundamentals...
Although I must say, CCR large (or what I called "normal") size units are not for yields. The whole point is for capital appreciation.

[bargain hunter]

yes, as per what bro amk advised for the rental data information. from URA website. now all public info.

22nd floor should be not bad. however, now there are 2 factors. if its the stack which faces the cross junction, then traditionally, it would be harder to achieve above 9k becoz of road noise. if it faces the other side, all was bright and rosy but now pple start to think when the mrt station construction may start.

Hi bargain hunter

Thanks for the update. Wow, someone managed to rent above $9k, must be on very high floor. My friend unit is above 22 nd floor.

Can u reveal how you can check the rental transactions? From sisv or property guru? Tks

[amk]

no wor. cosmo in 2005 was sold below 1000psf. i think it started selling before 2005? rivergate was first sold in 2005 at 1000psf so cosmo i think was sold before that and at lower psf?

Cosmo was sold between end 2004 to first few months of 2005,
Where got below 1000 ? 1100 was already the "preview" VIP price..

Rivergate, ur favorite project huh I thought was around 1100

[bargain hunter]

but now it seems there were many buyers who bought during the euphoria of 2007 and now needs rental support.

Always back to fundamentals...
Although I must say, CCR large (or what I called "normal") size units are not for yields. The whole point is for capital appreciation.

[Allthepies]

Just a newbie like to share my thoughts see whether it make any sense

1. For CCR rental yield maybe not so impt as buyer pay in full without taking loan?
2. Follow from pt 1, CCR investor are looking at long term capital gain?
3. Rental yield impt for RCR/OCR buyers as they need the cash flow?

Feel free to comment and discuss

[bargain hunter]

have leh, i remembered seeing it somewhere on realis. maybe bro dtrax can help out here if he is free. record low of cosmopolitan was below 1000psf or not?

rivergate have 1000psf lah. the bigger units in the former lippo block lor.

Cosmo was sold between end 2004 to first few months of 2005,
Where got below 1000 ? 1100 was already the "preview" VIP price..

Rivergate, ur favorite project huh I thought was around 1100

[amk]

but now it seems there were many buyers who bought during the euphoria of 2007 and now needs rental support.

This group was screwed hard, especially if they were marginal in their cash flow.
During the time units with large PES sold at higher psf than one without, made no sense.

Personally I think the same is happening now for many OCR buyers, banking on rents covering installments.

[bargain hunter]

wide range of units and wide range of investors within CCR. cannot one broom sweep all.

Just a newbie like to share my thoughts see whether it make any sense

1. For CCR rental yield maybe not so impt as buyer pay in full without taking loan?
2. Follow from pt 1, CCR investor are looking at long term capital gain?
3. Rental yield impt for RCR/OCR buyers as they need the cash flow?

Feel free to comment and discuss

[bargain hunter]

was? i think still IS. still have, interest rate go up siao liao.

yes, there are marginal buyers in OCR now. retail participation in stock mkt this year is lowest since asian financial crisis. all jumped into ppty liao hahahahahhahaha.

This group was screwed hard, especially if they were marginal in their cash flow.
During the time units with large PES sells higher psf than one without, made no sense.

Personally I think the same is happening now for many OCR buyers, banking on rents covering installments.

[dtrax]

have leh, i remembered seeing it somewhere on realis. maybe bro dtrax can help out here if he is free. record low of cosmopolitan was below 1000psf or not?

rivergate have 1000psf lah. the bigger units in the former lippo block lor.

haha i happen to be damn free today n whole day Realising... those below 1k psf for Cosmo all in 2005 and considering most are largish units. I wont say it is record low becoz that was in 05, most units in other places should also be record low and considering 1.5k sqft at mid 9xxpsf is not really cheap at that time

[bargain hunter]

thanks so much bro. response so fast somemore. just wanted to confirm with bro amk that there are units which were sold at < 1000psf.

haha i happen to be damn free today n whole day Realising... those below 1k psf for Cosmo all in 2005 and considering most are largish units. I wont say it is record low becoz that was in 05, most units in other places should also be record low and considering 1.5k sqft at mid 9xxpsf is not really cheap at that time

[amk]

The story are all the same.
In 2007, CCR prices jumped in months. Ppl see making money so easy, those who can afford all jumped in. Traditional investors do home work, check location, check developer, check design, finish, etc. new investors just flock to buy.
Today, I see many ordinary sporeans are attracted to "pty investment" for the same reason.
You can make money everywhere you invest. But not when you just follow the crowd.