CPF ups Min Sum to $148k and MinMedSave to $45.5k (increased of $11k in total)

[minority]

did I say buying home not a benefit? I said why is using cpf to buy home a benefit?

Why not? It's protected from creditors. Also fix payment the people won't over spend n miss their mortgage payment.

[minority]

Why does the CPF min sum keep increasing faster than their reported inflation rate?

Very simple, because of GST!

As such, I pity those who has NO INCOME but yet need to PAY GST TAX! That is a NO EMPATHY TAX! Simple as that!

Has any country implemented GST and the GST rate remain the same forever? The answer is obvious! So OLD PEOPLE, you deserve it for voting those people in to implement GST for your own benefits!

Lol ur gst bull shit again. Gst is the cause of all evil? Yeah rich people like u will Siam tax ! Now want to Siam gst! Gst tax u the most oz u can't Siam gst! N u consumer more ! Big house big car fancy trips n restaurants n cloths! Keep gst to tax u!

[Regulators]

Huh??? You mean people pay mortgage from their bank account cannot be fix payment?? At least those who pay from their own bank accounts don't have to pay any nonsensical backdated interest when they sell their house, unlike if you use cpf money. If returns on the cpf so fantastic for the people, why then do they even bother to use cpf to pay for their house? they might as well pay in cash and leave the money in cpf to collect the interest.

Why not? It's protected from creditors. Also fix payment the people won't over spend n miss their mortgage payment.

[myfirstpc]

assume we are at 40y old, another 15y b4 55y

@4% from 148k ... ag age of 55, CPF SA min sum is 269k
@5% from 148k ... at age of 55, CPF SA min sum is 312k

I am also seeing the same for the Min Sum's direction. I wonder what is the % of the population that can meet the current 148K min sum.

[heehee]

I remember it was previously something like <20% has more than the min sum in CPF? Not sure what is the figure now.

I am also seeing the same for the Min Sum's direction. I wonder what is the % of the population that can meet the current 148K min sum.

[amk]

When I said "pension system", I meant a system where society collects social contributions and redistribute them for old age related benefits to the society. A "social charges" system.
So the 20% is your social contribution. It is not your money.
But we also do not like the European system where it is too socialist. Therefore CPF was designed with explicit entitlement, or claims, that is directly linked to your contibution. This is to discourage free loaders, and instill a sense of self dependence. A little bit like "fend for your self", but not totally. Gov still promised a 2.5% return for the less prudent ones. And the gov needs the wealthy ones to have their larger CPF sum to have nene fits of scale for the fund.
By and large, SG system is pro capitalist , not pro socialist. It does not redistribute your contributions. It uses your contributins to establish a large enough fiscal pool to derive yields for others, and to maintain a solid financial foundation for the country itself. It is almost like every one is forced to buy a SG perpetual gov bond, such that the gov always have funds to defend SGD. Such financial backing by design is very helpful to sustain SG's position. This is why the restrictions on CPF withdrawals, etc.

[Sam88]

Huh??? You mean people pay mortgage from their bank account cannot be fix payment?? At least those who pay from their own bank accounts don't have to pay any nonsensical backdated interest when they sell their house, unlike if you use cpf money. If returns on the cpf so fantastic for the people, why then do they even bother to use cpf to pay for their house? they might as well pay in cash and leave the money in cpf to collect the interest.

So u use cpf or cash.

[phantom_opera]

When I said "pension system", I meant a system where society collects social contributions and redistribute them for old age related benefits to the society. A "social charges" system.
So the 20% is your social contribution. It is not your money.
But we also do not like the European system where it is too socialist. Therefore CPF was designed with explicit entitlement, or claims, that is directly linked to your contibution. This is to discourage free loaders, and instill a sense of self dependence. A little bit like "fend for your self", but not totally. Gov still promised a 2.5% return for the less prudent ones. And the gov needs the wealthy ones to have their larger CPF sum to have nene fits of scale for the fund.
By and large, SG system is pro capitalist , not pro socialist. It does not redistribute your contributions. It uses your contributins to establish a large enough fiscal pool to derive yields for others, and to maintain a solid financial foundation for the country itself. It is almost like every one is forced to buy a SG perpetual gov bond, such that the gov always have funds to defend SGD. Such financial backing by design is very helpful to sustain SG's position. This is why the restrictions on CPF withdrawals, etc.

further to that there is a limit on voluntary contribution up to min sum that many are not aware so garmen is not so 'Gian' (craving) abt your money, but it is true that those have many months of bonus contribute much more to cpf by design

[Regulators]

I use cash as I never believe in cpf from day one when I started work.

So u use cpf or cash.

[teddybear]

You Moron, Already shown you that I will be better off if you tax me with GST than if you tax me with income tax. Simple calculation also can' figure out!

Lol ur gst bull shit again. Gst is the cause of all evil? Yeah rich people like u will Siam tax ! Now want to Siam gst! Gst tax u the most oz u can't Siam gst! N u consumer more ! Big house big car fancy trips n restaurants n cloths! Keep gst to tax u!

[Sam88]

I use cash as I never believe in cpf from day one when I started work.

u mean us also use cash for your investment properties?

[Regulators]

yes, I am self employed

u mean us also use cash for your investment properties?

[phantom_opera]

to show how inadequate is CPF for retirement, just assume u can meet the minimum sum (through voluntary contribution, windfall whatever) and the entire min sum is committed to CPF Life annuity at 55, which as of today, the payout is about 1.2k pm for 139k, since min sum is pegged to inflation .. we would assume that u will get paid an inflation-adjusted figure worth 1.2kpm today from 65 till death

let's say husband/wife both work towards the cpf min sum ... that will be about 2.4kpm of today's value in the future

but ... btn 55-65 u get nothing for CPF Life to accummulate interest

if u want to retire at 55 with above assumption ... that means u have to prepare to clear all debt + about 300k of today's cash value to "tong" thru the 10y when CPF life does not pay out anything

2.4kpm x 12 x 10 = 120 x 2.4k abt 300k today's value (or inflation-adjusted around 500k 15y later)

that target is only $80 per day of today's value for 2 retirees

[eng81157]

So little people. how to opt in opt out. if we have 65M people sure u can opt in opt out. when CPF started we have ~1.5M people how to scale if marjority dont opt in.

use ur grey matter.. opp.. u bo.

so tell us, how much of this 1.5m population, as you claim, are incapable of managing their retirement savings?

let me tell you, since you are a stats-ignoramus, the max you may have is merely 25%.

[eng81157]

Lol out loud u mean majority can plan. I don't think so. I feel many cannot plan. I have seen so many cases of failure to plan. I only see a few handful of successful ones.

I agree with that those who made it. why kpkb abt the cpf treat it as charity. its loose chain to them anyway. and still get back. treat it as mthly kopi $.

wah piang moron, I see many cases of successful planning, only a small minority like you who have zero intellect and needs a nanny to spoonfeed you.

that's why, go pass your PSLE exams first so that you learn how to count for a start

[hopeful]

Well CPF is given back over time why not given back? u want to take back all 1 time then its effectively a run on the system. unless u are willing to take zero interest on CPF?

i am surprised minority said this and i am further surprised nobody else caught this.
A run on the system?

i hope minority can clarify "Well CPF is given back over time why not given back?" i dont understatement this comment.

[eng81157]

i am surprised minority said this and i am further surprised nobody else caught this.
A run on the system?

i hope minority can clarify "Well CPF is given back over time why not given back?" i dont understatement this comment.

i'm surprised that you actually try to make sense of his nonsense.

[hopeful]

Why not? It's protected from creditors. Also fix payment the people won't over spend n miss their mortgage payment.

sorry, i am not well verse in HDB.
are you talking about using cpf to partially pay for hdb or using hdb loan.
please correct me if i am wrong, if you take hdb loan to buy hdb, then you are protected from seizure by other creditors. however hdb itself can seize your hdb (and forcibly downgrade to a smaller hdb?). if you take private loan to buy hdb, you are not protected from seizure by other creditors, however cpf, bank will take their cut first for forced sale.
where does cpf play a part in all this?

in addition, if you use cpf to help pay for downpayment for private property, the banks can still seize your property.

i dont see the connection of cpf with protection from creditors, can somebody help to enlighten me.

[eng81157]

sorry, i am not well verse in HDB.
are you talking about using cpf to partially pay for hdb or using hdb loan.
please correct me if i am wrong, if you take hdb loan to buy hdb, then you are protected from seizure by other creditors. however hdb itself can seize your hdb (and forcibly downgrade to a smaller hdb?). if you take private loan to buy hdb, you are not protected from seizure by other creditors, however cpf, bank will take their cut first for forced sale.
where does cpf play a part in all this?

in addition, if you use cpf to help pay for downpayment for private property, the banks can still seize your property.

i dont see the connection of cpf with protection from creditors, can somebody help to enlighten me.

bro, don't bother trying to make sense of nonsense. and don't need to throw pearls of wisdom to swines

[heehee]

Think nobody bother to make sense of his nonsense, since nonsense how to make sense? There isn't any.

i am surprised minority said this and i am further surprised nobody else caught this.
A run on the system?

i hope minority can clarify "Well CPF is given back over time why not given back?" i dont understatement this comment.

[heehee]

$1.2k per month per person is sufficient for living if exclude housing, just plain simple & no frill, eat bread, plain rice & noodle at home.

If $1.2k per month per person is not enough, how could those family on state assistance survive with just assistance of $300+ per month? You mean govt trying to starve these people to death? No right? So if $300+ pm pf is sufficient for a family of 4, then min sum of $15k pp is enough according to gov's state assistance figure?

to show how inadequate is CPF for retirement, just assume u can meet the minimum sum (through voluntary contribution, windfall whatever) and the entire min sum is committed to CPF Life annuity at 55, which as of today, the payout is about 1.2k pm for 139k, since min sum is pegged to inflation .. we would assume that u will get paid an inflation-adjusted figure worth 1.2kpm today from 65 till death

let's say husband/wife both work towards the cpf min sum ... that will be about 2.4kpm of today's value in the future

but ... btn 55-65 u get nothing for CPF Life to accummulate interest

if u want to retire at 55 with above assumption ... that means u have to prepare to clear all debt + about 300k of today's cash value to "tong" thru the 10y when CPF life does not pay out anything

2.4kpm x 12 x 10 = 120 x 2.4k abt 300k today's value (or inflation-adjusted around 500k 15y later)

that target is only $80 per day of today's value for 2 retirees

[shareidiot]

Heehee,

PA is S$450/mth for 1 pax or S$1180/mth for family of 4 pax. For families with children, additional S$150/child.

Citizens under PA scheme enjoys free medical treatment in polyclinics and government/restructured hospitals.

Therefore, I sincerely suggest you to indicate the correct information & avoid misleading the general forummers. Thank you.

Meanwhile, please also understand that those families who are under the PA scheme, they are usually assisted through other channels which provide:

1) some free meals
2) tuition for children
3) school pocket fund
4) et cetera

$1.2k per month per person is sufficient for living if exclude housing, just plain simple & no frill, eat bread, plain rice & noodle at home.

If $1.2k per month per person is not enough, how could those family on state assistance survive with just assistance of $300+ per month? You mean govt trying to starve these people to death? No right? So if $300+ pm pf is sufficient for a family of 4, then min sum of $15k pp is enough according to gov's state assistance figure?

[minority]

sorry, i am not well verse in HDB.
are you talking about using cpf to partially pay for hdb or using hdb loan.
please correct me if i am wrong, if you take hdb loan to buy hdb, then you are protected from seizure by other creditors. however hdb itself can seize your hdb (and forcibly downgrade to a smaller hdb?). if you take private loan to buy hdb, you are not protected from seizure by other creditors, however cpf, bank will take their cut first for forced sale.
where does cpf play a part in all this?

in addition, if you use cpf to help pay for downpayment for private property, the banks can still seize your property.

i dont see the connection of cpf with protection from creditors, can somebody help to enlighten me.

What ever sales proceeds from the seizing of the property goes back to ur CPF. then the banks.

so u rather loose all to the banks then go back to ur CPF?

[hopeful]

What ever sales proceeds from the seizing of the property goes back to ur CPF. then the banks.

so u rather loose all to the banks then go back to ur CPF?

if 20% downpayment,property value drop to 60%. bank seized the property.
scenario 1: all dp in cash
i lose all my 20% downpayment money and i owe the bank additional 20%.

scenario 2: 15% dp in cash, 5% in cpf.
i lose all my 15% cash downpayment, 5% of proceeds goes back to cpf. i owe the bank additional 25%.

are you saying that scenario 2 is preferable? because if you declare bankruptcy more of your debt is wipe out as compared to scenario 1?

[heehee]

Thanks for correcting me, so my figure is outdated.
$450 pm pp is sufficient means for a person to retire at 65 years old for 20 years means only need $108k only! So what is the rationale to increase min sum further?
Don't forget, we still have medisave for medical which has not been included here yet.

Heehee,

PA is S$450/mth for 1 pax or S$1180/mth for family of 4 pax. For families with children, additional S$150/child.

Citizens under PA scheme enjoys free medical treatment in polyclinics and government/restructured hospitals.

Therefore, I sincerely suggest you to indicate the correct information & avoid misleading the general forummers. Thank you.

Meanwhile, please also understand that those families who are under the PA scheme, they are usually assisted through other channels which provide:

1) some free meals
2) tuition for children
3) school pocket fund
4) et cetera

[shareidiot]

"Good Question" ... I am also scratching my head....

Personally, I think CPF is a good tool (for forced savings). However, the garment cannot keep raising the bar for withdrawing age/amount and increasing the minimum sum.

Afterall, truly, these are OUR OWN $$$. why we can't take control of our own $$$ after a certain age ? ... 死了也看不到钱....

Thanks for correcting me, so my figure is outdated.
$450 pm pp is sufficient means for a person to retire at 65 years old for 20 years means only need $108k only! So what is the rationale to increase min sum further?
Don't forget, we still have medisave for medical which has not been included here yet.

[phantom_opera]

Thanks for correcting me, so my figure is outdated.
$450 pm pp is sufficient means for a person to retire at 65 years old for 20 years means only need $108k only! So what is the rationale to increase min sum further?
Don't forget, we still have medisave for medical which has not been included here yet.

that is because of inflation loh, $450pm is sufficient does not mean 20y later is sufficient

pls also note my original assumption that both husband/wife must work to achieve CPF SA min sum at age of 55 to secure income after 65 after CPF Life ... it is not that easy hoh, how many ppl today at 55 has achieved CPF SA min sum? Probably 50%?

[shareidiot]

what is the SA minimum sum ? i googled, and it seems to imply S$139K ? This is SA or SA+OA ?

Title of this thread is SGD 148K. New rule? Sorry a little confused with the ever changing numbers...

Scratched head...

that is because of inflation loh, $450pm is sufficient does not mean 20y later is sufficient

pls also note my original assumption that both husband/wife must work to achieve CPF SA min sum at age of 55 to secure income after 65 after CPF Life ... it is not that easy hoh, how many ppl today at 55 has achieved CPF SA min sum? Probably 50%?

[minority]

if 20% downpayment,property value drop to 60%. bank seized the property.
scenario 1: all dp in cash
i lose all my 20% downpayment money and i owe the bank additional 20%.

scenario 2: 15% dp in cash, 5% in cpf.
i lose all my 15% cash downpayment, 5% of proceeds goes back to cpf. i owe the bank additional 25%.

are you saying that scenario 2 is preferable? because if you declare bankruptcy more of your debt is wipe out as compared to scenario 1?

well if u owe bank % and u go bankrupt. the bank sells ur place at a lost. if no CPF banks take 100% u get ZERO. with CPF the $ still goes back to CPF and u are still a bankrupt. u still get ur $ in CPF. u also forgot people pay the mthly installment with CPF. so its not just 20% or 5% from CPF.

ur example. u have to consider % paid up. u are assuming yr1 scenario? and also buying private. For most they buy HDB from HDB. 60% drop are unlikely.

So u dabble in private its also at ur risk. u are the % of folks who are richer.

So to address the folks with HDB and perhaps run into payment problem with banks or go bankrupt .

if 20% downpayment,property value drop to 60%. bank seized the property.
scenario 1: all dp in cash
i lose all my 20% downpayment money and i owe the bank additional 20%.

if u go bankrupt. u still have the 20% in CPF. If you are 50% paid up using CPF to pay ur mthly housing cost CPF still have the 1st bite on your foreclosure. then the banks. So you still have 50% or what ever u have paid via CPF. u are bankrupt or u owe the bank the delta.


scenario 2: 15% dp in cash, 5% in cpf.
i lose all my 15% cash downpayment, 5% of proceeds goes back to cpf. i owe the bank additional 25%.

Same as above. 5% CPF + 45% from mthly installment using CPF. or what ever amount being paid vial mthly installment.

Since when CPF suppose to reduce the % u owe the bank. If the bank have 1st bite at ur $ from the sale. u get zero anyway. coz its a lost sale. Its not the CPF role to be responsible for your lost but as a safety net where CPF gets 1st bite at the sales proceed. Then u can come and say the house u paid become ZERO thats 100% lost. but it wont happen to 100% lost. especially u buy from HDB. u go buy private then tats for the richer folks.

Thats why when u go bank ask for bank loan they will always ask u are u using CPF to pay. especially the 2nd home. they are not too keen to give u higher leverage rate if you are using CPF backsically they risk have difficulty recovering the all the $ when CPF is involved.

[minority]

"Good Question" ... I am also scratching my head....

Personally, I think CPF is a good tool (for forced savings). However, the garment cannot keep raising the bar for withdrawing age/amount and increasing the minimum sum.

Afterall, truly, these are OUR OWN $$$. why we can't take control of our own $$$ after a certain age ? ... 死了也看不到钱....

True every want want to take control of their $. but some dont know at they do with it. take control liao spend on mei mei. and after that expect state to take care. anyway thats is debatable. some people here think other wise. anyway to each his own. if people want to die why cannot.

but like all insurance. the CPF to generate a decent return they have to be in some instruments long or short. and if everyone want to take out at one go. then it would also impact the existing folks its going to take care of. sure if everyone want to like take out as and when they want. then maybe CPF will pay u interest like the bank rate which is way lower than inflation rate.

but its also unfair to say u cannot take out entirely. there are many methods if u are savvy. invest it in shares. buy a home n collect rent. etc. there are ways. but not many people are that savvy or risk adverse. Some want bao jia no risk coz they cannot sleep.

Anyway its moving towards the insurance model like the west to offload the risk to insurance company. Coz without new working population the CPF model in the current mode might not be able to substain with the current interest pay out.