To buy EC now or save for 2nd Property

[dodobird]

Parent sometime do nag.
But sometime good to take advice from old folks to reduce the learning curve

That's very true...

[adriel]

Assuming 3bedder pc at 1000sqft, $1000psf, price= $1,000,000
5% downpayment= $50,000(cash)
Signing S&P 15%= $150,000(cash/cpf) (minimum sum $139,000 OA+SA cannot touch)
Stamp duties 10%= $100,000 (3%+7%absd)
At this point, it's only 20% stage.

Total premium outlay without existing loan = $50k+$150k+$100k+$98k(to pay off existing hdb loan)= $398,000!

With existing hdb loan, max 2nd loan cap at 50%, so another 30% is needed = $300,000(cash/cpf),so total premium outlay with existing hdb loan = $50k+$150k+$100k+$300k=$550,000!!!

So you must have at least $398,000 on hand before you can enjoy $600,000 return 10 years later.

That's the power of 7th cooling measure!

yup.....thats what I had in mind.....but mine was a $800K unit.... din dare think of 1m.....mebbe must lower expectation further.....but I need some place that can be easily rent out and enuff to cover monthly repayment of roughly $2.5K.

[adriel]

bro beepbeep

was reading the thread again and was trying to figure wat the portion on the cpf....the SA & OA part.....

mind to share how u got that figure????

thks

[mintee]

Hi adriel,

Just to share with you my story as I was in your same situation 2 years ago. 2 years ago, I bit the bullet and paid off my HDB outstanding loan after I found a suitable PC in District 12. I wanted to sell off my HDB as do not have sufficient cash to pay for downpayment of PC. My parents offered to lend me some cash and advised that I should rent out my HDB.
After much consideration, I bought the PC in May 2011 and have been staying there and rented out my HDB. Looking back, really glad to make that decision as my PC has risen 20% based on recent transaction while I collect rent from HDB. In fact, my HDB has also appreciated in the last 2 years. Just remember to declare rental income and have to pay higher property tax (10% of annual value) for the HDB. It is a small price to pay. If I can rent out HDB for about 15 years, actually equals to my buying price! Of cos that was before CM7 or CM8 came into place, else I wouldn't be able to afford 2nd property.

Good luck!

Hihi I'm in a similar situation, but have been wondering whether I'm allowed to rent out the HDB flat if I buy a PC. Does the renting out of flat require approval from HDB if you have satisfied the MOP? How does the approval process work? Thanks!

[CondoInterested]

I find this strategy will work well.

[adriel]

I find this strategy will work well.

bro thks....but i see the link and pasted info here. sounds dodgy.....if u are the website owner.....my apologies in advance........

How does a HDB owner upgrade and own 2 private properties with little upfront cash?
"
1. Sell/Cash out of your HDB flat.
2. At the same time, buy a private residential property for own stay under husband name.
3. Buy another investment property later under wife name.

If done properly by a Professional Agent, this will help you avoid:

1. Additional Buyer Stamp Duty (ABSD) of 7% for 2nd property.
2. Avoid CPF minimum sum for 2nd residential properties
3. Enjoy 5% cash down / 15% Cash/CPF with 80% bank loan for the TWO properties

Effectively, Selling your HDB and Buying 2 private residential properties with little upfront cash (terms and conditions apply)."

[CondoInterested]

No, I am not the owner of the website, the owner advertise (see above in home page) and I read and thought it's good in a way and also no good in another way (because I will not sell away my HDB and I also cannot sell anymore because if I sell, I am not qualify to buy back anymore ), you see my other post in his / her advertisement you will know.

[gilaone]

Hihi I'm in a similar situation, but have been wondering whether I'm allowed to rent out the HDB flat if I buy a PC. Does the renting out of flat require approval from HDB if you have satisfied the MOP? How does the approval process work? Thanks!

Yes still require approval from HDB after MOP. If you are Singaporean usually no problem. Just go to HDB website to apply online. Approval on the spot usually but you need to have your tenants info ready during application.

[S0undwave]

[QUOTE=adriel]bro beepbeep

was reading the thread again and was trying to figure wat the portion on the cpf....the SA & OA part.....

mind to share how u got that figure????


Amended the minor errors

Half of cpf minimum sum of $139,00 = $69,500 in OA+SA cannot touch
Bro beepbeep is correct at $139,000 if 2 names husband and wife used for 2nd property

Stamp duties 10%= (3% - $5,400 +7%absd.) = $94,600

[S0undwave]

I find this strategy will work well.

I think this is workable too. Though the single applicant would have a huge loan to repay, and preferably cash rich to pay installments with partial cash as Likely scenario the CPF portion of $1150 will be max out.

[amk]

I'm sorry but..... Do you really have to "invest in another property" ? ... Once upon a time, pty investment is only for the rich, or at least the well off... If you have to go to some extreme measures then personally I would say enjoying life with HDB is alright... It does not look healthy at all whn every ordinary income earner is looking at "pty investment "

[earthling]

Thanks earthling and Chestnut.

As the project is not ready yet, I have not decided. Most likely, I will be taking bank loan.

If i leave those cashflow sitting around, I probably do not know what to do with it.

If i fully paid it, I will not have any liquidity. Nonetheless, after 5 years of MOP, I should be able to afford a PC downpayment.

I made the mistake as I was attracted to some hyped BTO projects, ignoring my parents advice to go private. At that time, they had actually found a few City Fringe units which are suitable for me.

Well well... Life goes on. Henceforth, I'm planning my next step early now.

Frankly speaking, right now I see more potential upside for EC than BTO after all the recent HDB housing policies (such as increased supply of flats and PR having to dispose their flats if they buy private) which will dampen HDB resale prices. EC afterall can achieve "private" status after 10 years and are highly sought after currently.

Having said that, there are still some BTO at matured estates such as the 2 projects at Dawson which I think will command similar resale price in future to a EC in OCR. Pinnacle will easily hit 1 mil upon MOP. So, which will you choose, BTO at matured estate in/near Central Region or EC in OCR?

In any case, you can't go wrong whether you rent out your flat after MOP or sell it for capital appreciation. You are still in a very good position to go private. It is how you make the next move after that that is more important!

[earthling]

I find this strategy will work well.

Sell 1 buy 2 strategy will be much more difficult after CM7 though not impossible. Having 1 name in each property (husband and wife respectively) also have its limitations and problems.

[earthling]

I'm sorry but..... Do you really have to "invest in another property" ? ... Once upon a time, pty investment is only for the rich, or at least the well off... If you have to go to some extreme measures then personally I would say enjoying life with HDB is alright... It does not look healthy at all whn every ordinary income earner is looking at "pty investment "

Of course there are many other types of investments. But be warned, know what you are doing and do within your means!

[leesg123]

Frankly speaking, right now I see more potential upside for EC than BTO after all the recent HDB housing policies (such as increased supply of flats and PR having to dispose their flats if they buy private) which will dampen HDB resale prices. EC afterall can achieve "private" status after 10 years and are highly sought after currently.

Having said that, there are still some BTO at matured estates such as the 2 projects at Dawson which I think will command similar resale price in future to a EC in OCR. Pinnacle will easily hit 1 mil upon MOP. So, which will you choose, BTO at matured estate in/near Central Region or EC in OCR?

In any case, you can't go wrong whether you rent out your flat after MOP or sell it for capital appreciation. You are still in a very good position to go private. It is how you make the next move after that that is more important!

to many pte properties ownesr, EC is still an EC even after 10yrs. different class.

just like prime district vs ocr condo, different class.

to the post suggesting sell hdb, buy two pte, that will work provided husband and wife are both high income earners and can qualify for property loan individually.

[earthling]

to many pte properties ownesr, EC is still an EC even after 10yrs. different class.

just like prime district vs ocr condo, different class.

to the post suggesting sell hdb, buy two pte, that will work provided husband and wife are both high income earners and can qualify for property loan individually.

Yes, even within the private properties, there are many different classes. However, right now, the capital gain (in terms of percentage increase) of EC is even greater than some big quantum luxury condo in CCR (some even selling at a loss). As long as can make money, who cares what class? Unless buying for own stay and prestige, then a different story...

[beepbeep]

bro beepbeep

was reading the thread again and was trying to figure wat the portion on the cpf....the SA & OA part.....

mind to share how u got that figure????

thks

For 2nd property, u have to keep a minimum sum which comprises OA+SA in CPF untouch. Base on yr 2012, it's $69,500 individually,so if u r applying with your wife, that will be $69,500*2=$139,000.
The minimum sum will increase again in July 2013

[beepbeep]

[QUOTE=S0undwave]

bro beepbeep

was reading the thread again and was trying to figure wat the portion on the cpf....the SA & OA part.....

mind to share how u got that figure????


Amended the minor errors

Half of cpf minimum sum of $139,00 = $69,500 in OA+SA cannot touch
Bro beepbeep is correct at $139,000 if 2 names husband and wife used for 2nd property

Stamp duties 10%= (3% - $5,400 +7%absd.) = $94,600

Bro Soundwave,
Thks for adding the $5,400 cos I feel $5,400 is not a substantial amount from $398,000 and $600,000

[beepbeep]

to many pte properties ownesr, EC is still an EC even after 10yrs. different class.

just like prime district vs ocr condo, different class.

to the post suggesting sell hdb, buy two pte, that will work provided husband and wife are both high income earners and can qualify for property loan individually.

EC privatise after 10 years and the resale price difference between EC and surrounding PCs narrows. Capital appreciation and rental yield returns is higher for EC since the premium outlay is lower than PC depending on location. Bishan Loft is one good example.
Getting a 3% rental returns is consider good for a high class PCs in prime district but for OCR condos or ECs, getting at least a 4% rental returns is just a breeze.

[adriel]

I'm sorry but..... Do you really have to "invest in another property" ? ... Once upon a time, pty investment is only for the rich, or at least the well off... If you have to go to some extreme measures then personally I would say enjoying life with HDB is alright... It does not look healthy at all whn every ordinary income earner is looking at "pty investment "

bro, nothing to be sorry about. just air your views......

Yes, I too was thinking just forget it la.... why make life so difficult for yourself.....thing is....for me personally......trying to get a 2nd property is something to work towards, to save more.....do more odd jobs as they come.... sure...I'm comfortable with my current lifestyle and not really short of $$$ but if I "suffer" for 3-5 years...........in exchange for a long time of passive income.....why not????

I think its not healthy to not have an aim....and work towards it..I respect your opinion although I disagree ......no offence intended.

[gilaone]

bro, nothing to be sorry about. just air your views......

Yes, I too was thinking just forget it la.... why make life so difficult for yourself.....thing is....for me personally......trying to get a 2nd property is something to work towards, to save more.....do more odd jobs as they come.... sure...I'm comfortable with my current lifestyle and not really short of $$$ but if I "suffer" for 3-5 years...........in exchange for a long time of passive income.....why not????

I think its not healthy to not have an aim....and work towards it..I respect your opinion although I disagree ......no offence intended.

There is nothing wrong with your vision/wish/dream of owning 2nd properties and work towards it. In fact thats a positive thing. Just, instead of buy now and sink yourself into tough financial situation, maybe save up now and buy later. I believe property market has a cycle - there is always the next wave.

Consider me lucky that I was in your situation 3 yrs back and I hooted. Now with all the CM thingy cannot afford getting another one. But getting a 3rd one still my wish. Now saving up and wait lor.

[gilaone]

I'm sorry but..... Do you really have to "invest in another property" ? ... Once upon a time, pty investment is only for the rich, or at least the well off... If you have to go to some extreme measures then personally I would say enjoying life with HDB is alright... It does not look healthy at all whn every ordinary income earner is looking at "pty investment "

Cannot like that say la. Last time university is also for the good family rich family only. Now it become a norm. Generally citizen living standard move up liao buy more property to rent to foreigners is a good thing. Hope this can become a norm also in future.

But on another hand when you say one should not take extreme measure until suffering and living in HDB also fine - that I totally agree. Just like cannot go U then study poly is perfectly OK.

[mintee]

Yes still require approval from HDB after MOP. If you are Singaporean usually no problem. Just go to HDB website to apply online. Approval on the spot usually but you need to have your tenants info ready during application.

Thanks gilaone! Appreciate your insights and advice

Just wondering is it essential to have tenant info before applying for the said approval? If it hasn't been approved yet, I shouldn't be getting tenants in the first place right? I'm rather wary of the procedures ... as if it can't be approved, I might not want to get a pte property or move out in the first place. Something like a chicken and egg issue. Also, I have always been under the impression that HDB owners are only allowed to have a PC as investment, and should not be staying in the PC if they hold on to the flat... if that's the case, why does HDB still approve renting out whole flat so easily? What am I missing here?

[gilaone]

Thanks gilaone! Appreciate your insights and advice

Just wondering is it essential to have tenant info before applying for the said approval? If it hasn't been approved yet, I shouldn't be getting tenants in the first place right? I'm rather wary of the procedures ... as if it can't be approved, I might not want to get a pte property or move out in the first place. Something like a chicken and egg issue. Also, I have always been under the impression that HDB owners are only allowed to have a PC as investment, and should not be staying in the PC if they hold on to the flat... if that's the case, why does HDB still approve renting out whole flat so easily? What am I missing here?

I have the same wonder as you too. Why must secure the tenants first before applying. But my agent says there is a clause in the TA that if we can't get approval from HDB then we cannot rent them and there is no penalty on us.

As to whether you can stay in PC and rent out HDB that is also very gray. In the HDB sublet approval, there is a clause saying if after the sublet period ended and you don't get approval to continuing subletting, you need to "MOVE BACK" to the HDB. But how they enforce it? Atmost we vacant the HDB and still stay in PC, right? puzzled too.

But I remember in 1 TV interview with the KBW, he mentioned he cannot ban Singaporean from renting out their HDB. Citing some of them is depending on that to survive. So kind of him. So at least for now I think there is no risk - provided you are citizen.

[radha08]

I have the same wonder as you too. Why must secure the tenants first before applying. But my agent says there is a clause in the TA that if we can't get approval from HDB then we cannot rent them and there is no penalty on us.

As to whether you can stay in PC and rent out HDB that is also very gray. In the HDB sublet approval, there is a clause saying if after the sublet period ended and you don't get approval to continuing subletting, you need to "MOVE BACK" to the HDB. But how they enforce it? Atmost we vacant the HDB and still stay in PC, right? puzzled too.

But I remember in 1 TV interview with the KBW, he mentioned he cannot ban Singaporean from renting out their HDB. Citing some of them is depending on that to survive. So kind of him. So at least for now I think there is no risk - provided you are citizen.

sincere advice to all bros if possible get out of the hdb game that is buy pc or apt---- hdb u buy u pay money but still kena squueze by the balzzzz this cannot that cannot

[mintee]

I have the same wonder as you too. Why must secure the tenants first before applying. But my agent says there is a clause in the TA that if we can't get approval from HDB then we cannot rent them and there is no penalty on us.

As to whether you can stay in PC and rent out HDB that is also very gray. In the HDB sublet approval, there is a clause saying if after the sublet period ended and you don't get approval to continuing subletting, you need to "MOVE BACK" to the HDB. But how they enforce it? Atmost we vacant the HDB and still stay in PC, right? puzzled too.

But I remember in 1 TV interview with the KBW, he mentioned he cannot ban Singaporean from renting out their HDB. Citing some of them is depending on that to survive. So kind of him. So at least for now I think there is no risk - provided you are citizen.

Thanks very much gilaone for sharing your insights! This is so helpful for me!! Appreciate it!

[gilaone]

sincere advice to all bros if possible get out of the hdb game that is buy pc or apt---- hdb u buy u pay money but still kena squueze by the balzzzz this cannot that cannot

I think this is always an heated argument in this forum: Get out of HDB play vs once you are out you never get in again.

Bro, if I recall correctly you used to own PC and HDB too. But you sold PC and move back to HDB. When didn't you sold your HDB given your advise? So you seriously thinking of selling HDB after your PC TOP?

[radha08]

I think this is always an heated argument in this forum: Get out of HDB play vs once you are out you never get in again.

Bro, if I recall correctly you used to own PC and HDB too. But you sold PC and move back to HDB. When didn't you sold your HDB given your advise? So you seriously thinking of selling HDB after your PC TOP?

thats why i say that one should leverage on hdb to go into pcs if i had done that many years back i would have a few pcs but i never i stuck to my hdb and now as i am at halfway point in life a bit too late cos of all the cms so i just hold on to what i got but my advice to someone in his 30s is DONT waste oppurtunity if u bought ur hdb cheap and make a killing offload and go into pc cos HDB got a LOT of restriction and NO freedom to suka suka do what you want anyway as usual just my 2cents advice

[adriel]

thats why i say that one should leverage on hdb to go into pcs if i had done that many years back i would have a few pcs but i never i stuck to my hdb and now as i am at halfway point in life a bit too late cos of all the cms so i just hold on to what i got but my advice to someone in his 30s is DONT waste oppurtunity if u bought ur hdb cheap and make a killing offload and go into pc cos HDB got a LOT of restriction and NO freedom to suka suka do what you want anyway as usual just my 2cents advice

but to "suka suka" do what you want.....would mean u require you to have 2 properties to really leverage on whats happening.....ideally (or financially constraint) it means having a hdb and a PC. having 2 PCs seem like a tall order for a family in the sandwich class......

[yowetan]

Hi...I have a HDB flat and I am still aiming for my second property in Mt Sinai.

It can be done.