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Thread: Land Storm is HERE!!!

  1. #121
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    This report from DTZ on Q3 does sound like landed property are nearing the tipping point, especially for the once very bullish non-prime freehold and leasehold terrace housing, which fell from 5.6% and 5.1% rise in H1 to 1.5 and 1.0% respectively.

    Hence it goes to show that landed property owners are not as cash rich as what people like to believe and that is why they are so badly affected by TDSR.


    Considering how real estate companies always like to sugar coat things with their basket so I wont be surprise if URA actual index will paint a more depressing picture.

    Low rental yield, high maintenance and repair cost, high property tax, and now low capital gain? Beware!!


    According to DTZ, resale prices of private homes were mostly unchanged in Q3 2013 despite a lower transaction volume, as the Total Debt Servicing Ratio (TDSR) measures worked their way through the market.
    The TDSR framework has led to a longer loan application process with more compliance checks by banks and has also affected transaction volumes as multiple-property owners who still want to purchase or invest in residential properties find it more difficult now to obtain a loan for their purchases.
    Primary sales of private homes (excluding executive condominiums) have fallen from 4,538 units in Q2 to 1,224 units in July-August. Even though transactions are expected to pick up in September with reportedly healthy take-up for projects launched in September, transactions in Q3 will not exceed that in Q2. Meanwhile, in the secondary market, transaction volumes continued to remain thin. 1,227 units were sold in the secondary market in Q3, falling sharply from 2,405 units sold in Q2 2013 and 4,358 units sold in Q3 2012.

    Based on a basket of existing properties tracked by DTZ Research, resale prices across all non-landed private residential segments remained unchanged quarter-on-quarter (q-o-q) in Q3, despite the fall in transaction volume. In the prime districts of 9, 10 and 11, resale prices of freehold condominiums were flat after registering a 1.0% growth in H1 while resale prices of luxury condominiums remained flat for the fifth consecutive quarter. In the suburban areas, after registering a 2.2% growth in H1, resale prices of leasehold condominiums were also unchanged in Q3.

    Although the landed segment had held up better than the non-landed segment in previous quarters, resale price growth of landed homes also slowed down in Q3. Resale prices of landed homes in most segments registered flat growth q-o-q in the quarter with the exception of non-prime freehold and leasehold terrace homes, which saw prices increase by a marginal 1.5% and 1.0% q-o-q respectively in Q3, due to their comparatively more affordable overall quantum. This increase was, however, a moderation compared to the growth of 5.6% and 5.1% in the resale prices of non-prime freehold and leasehold terrace homes respectively in H1.

    Margaret Thean, DTZ’s Executive Director, Residential, said: “As the TDSR measures limit the amount of loans buyers can take, they are now more selective in their purchases even as they have more choices. Demand will therefore gravitate towards developments that offer buyers better value such as those that are competitively priced or projects that are well-located with easy access to amenities.”

    Lee Lay Keng, DTZ’s Head of Singapore Research, commented: “Looking ahead, resale transaction volume is likely to remain weak as the TDSR measures and the earlier cooling measures continue to work their way through the market. There is limited incentive for individual sellers to sell their properties unless they receive a premium as their replacement cost is now higher. In the absence of any major economic shocks, they are also unlikely to sell their properties in distress. Nonetheless, some downside pressure on resale prices could be expected going forward, against the backdrop of a strong pipeline supply and lower launch prices of new projects.”

    In the primary market, sale volume will fall from last year’s record level of around 22,000 units but could still come in close to 15,000-16,000 units, similar to the levels seen in 2010-2011.
    "Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post
    This report from DTZ on Q3 does sound like landed property are nearing the tipping point, especially for the once very bullish non-prime freehold and leasehold terrace housing, which fell from 5.6% and 5.1% rise in H1 to 1.5 and 1.0% respectively.

    Hence it goes to show that landed property owners are not as cash rich as what people like to believe and that is why they are so badly affected by TDSR.


    Considering how real estate companies always like to sugar coat things with their basket so I wont be surprise if URA actual index will paint a more depressing picture.

    Low rental yield, high maintenance and repair cost, high property tax, and now low capital gain? Beware!!
    Interesting why you didn't highlight the part for non-landed below. Zero growth and slowdown in transaction volume. Looks like tipping point for non-landed is here. At least terrace houses still rising.

    Based on a basket of existing properties tracked by DTZ Research, resale prices across all non-landed private residential segments remained unchanged quarter-on-quarter (q-o-q) in Q3, despite the fall in transaction volume.
    Low rental yield? Didn't you prove to all here that 86% of all landed owners buy for own stay?
    Last edited by proper-t; 04-10-13 at 09:17.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by proper-t View Post
    Interesting why you didn't highlight the part for non-landed below. Zero growth and slowdown in transaction volume. Looks like tipping point for non-landed is here. At least terrace houses still rising.

    Low rental yield? Didn't you prove to all here that 86% of all landed owners buy for own stay?
    As usual (same style) TWIST & TURN cum DIVERT ATTENTION EXPERT MR B..Oops sorry I mean Ringo33..
    Whenever CANNOT MAKE IT.. always act blur and divert attention to "low volume" and avoid talking about "price"..

  4. #124
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    NB!! since Oct 2011.. MR B had promised me by 2015 (end 2014).. can easily get a unit at below 50% when Luxus Hills was 2.4-mil..
    Base on the transacted price.. of UP UP UP.. No wonder MR B acted blur & went MIA much much earlier

    LUXUS HILLS SELETAR GREEN VIEW Terrace House 28 OCR 999 yrs $3,130,000 1,615 Land 1,939 Sep-13
    LUXUS HILLS SELETAR GREEN VIEW Terrace House 28 OCR 999 yrs $3,000,000 1,615 Land 1,858 Mar-13
    LUXUS HILLS SELETAR GREEN VIEW Terrace House 28 OCR 999 yrs $3,000,000 1,615 Land 1,858 Nov-12
    LUXUS HILLS SELETAR GREEN VIEW Terrace House 28 OCR 999 yrs $2,800,000 1,615 Land 1,734 Aug-12
    *
    *
    *
    LUXUS HILLS SELETAR GREEN VIEW Terrace House 28 OCR 999 yrs $2,410,000 1,615 Land 1,493 Oct-11

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post
    This report from DTZ on Q3 does sound like landed property are nearing the tipping point, especially for the once very bullish non-prime freehold and leasehold terrace housing, which fell from 5.6% and 5.1% rise in H1 to 1.5 and 1.0% respectively.

    Hence it goes to show that landed property owners are not as cash rich as what people like to believe and that is why they are so badly affected by TDSR.


    Considering how real estate companies always like to sugar coat things with their basket so I wont be surprise if URA actual index will paint a more depressing picture.

    Low rental yield, high maintenance and repair cost, high property tax, and now low capital gain? Beware!!
    Jurong is the location that is at its tipping point when a handful of 30+ people paid $1,6xx-$1,7xx. These non cash rich buyers are likely going to be hit if interest rates spike up within the next 2 years!
    Considering how agencies like to sugar coat things and sell and resell the same Jurong story at higher prices, we wouldnt be surprise if Jurong prices stays below $1,6xx for the foreseeble future!

    Ask anyone who has seen the Bishan/THomson newly launched PCs whether for the same price they will choose to buy Jurong or Bishan/Thomson! Jurong price sold forward by at least 10-15 years!

    Beware !

    DKSG

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKSG View Post
    Jurong is the location that is at its tipping point when a handful of 30+ people paid $1,6xx-$1,7xx. These non cash rich buyers are likely going to be hit if interest rates spike up within the next 2 years!
    Considering how agencies like to sugar coat things and sell and resell the same Jurong story at higher prices, we wouldnt be surprise if Jurong prices stays below $1,6xx for the foreseeble future!

    Ask anyone who has seen the Bishan/THomson newly launched PCs whether for the same price they will choose to buy Jurong or Bishan/Thomson! Jurong price sold forward by at least 10-15 years!

    Beware !

    DKSG
    What is your relationship with MERMAID? How come Mermaid doesnt complain about you posting about J Gateway all over the forum?

    Anyway, we will all get to see URA chart in a few weeks time. you reckon non-landed OCR is going to drop?
    "Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post
    What is your relationship with MERMAID? How come Mermaid doesnt complain about you posting about J Gateway all over the forum?

    Anyway, we will all get to see URA chart in a few weeks time. you reckon non-landed OCR is going to drop?
    Well according to someone below, the tsunami is going to hit all the new launches. Hmmm, isn't J Gateway a recent new launch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33
    New launches might not be affected for NOW, but the tsunami will come in 3 years time when the full loans kicks in. Perhaps that will be the best time to pick up real firesale? in 2016?

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post

    Low rental yield, high maintenance and repair cost, high property tax, and now low capital gain? Beware!!
    To me:

    Low rental yield - I don't bother cos for own stay.

    High maintenance and repair cost - I don't feel I am paying more than condo

    High property tax - I am prepared for it as part of the lifestyle we choose

    Low capital gain - again i am not bothered as i am taking long term view of landed. In the long term my personal view is landed should appreciate.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    To me:

    Low rental yield - I don't bother cos for own stay.

    High maintenance and repair cost - I don't feel I am paying more than condo

    High property tax - I am prepared for it as part of the lifestyle we choose

    Low capital gain - again i am not bothered as i am taking long term view of landed. In the long term my personal view is landed should appreciate.
    Capital appreciation will be quite slow due to TDSR. As long as foreigners are not allowed to buy landed, and Singaporeans restricted by loan curbs, there is a limit how fast landed can climb.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    To me:

    Low rental yield - I don't bother cos for own stay.

    High maintenance and repair cost - I don't feel I am paying more than condo

    High property tax - I am prepared for it as part of the lifestyle we choose

    Low capital gain - again i am not bothered as i am taking long term view of landed. In the long term my personal view is landed should appreciate.
    For own stay which is consumption rather than investment but that doesnt mean that prices of landed wont fall because you are living in it.

    The biggest concern for those who bought landed for own stay will of course will be interest rate. And based on my observation, I believe many landed property are bought with substantial mortgage, if not then TDSR would not have cause such a big impact on landed property. And I am also not sure if these owners are aware that when (not if) interest rate goes up by say 2%, the amount of interest they have to pay will increase by folds, not by percentage.

    As for maintenance, it really depends on the conditions of your landed property. If its already old and worn, there is really nothing much you could do so cost is low. However for those living in those modern and newly build landed property, especially those using all sort of funny material, cost of maintenance to keep it new and fresh are extremely expensive because wear and tear rate are extremely high under Singapore hot and humid weather

    Plus if you are one of those who want to cut corners during A&A or someone who went crazy to use all sort of funny material recommended by your ID, then you will be in for big trouble when things starts to fade, warp, leak and crack.
    "Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by wirehtc View Post
    Capital appreciation will be quite slow due to TDSR. As long as foreigners are not allowed to buy landed, and Singaporeans restricted by loan curbs, there is a limit how fast landed can climb.
    The impact of TDSR on landed property does help to bust the myth that landed property buyer doesnt need to leverage.
    "Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post
    For own stay which is consumption rather than investment but that doesnt mean that prices of landed wont fall because you are living in it.

    The biggest concern for those who bought landed for own stay will of course will be interest rate. And based on my observation, I believe many landed property are bought with substantial mortgage, if not then TDSR would not have cause such a big impact on landed property. And I am also not sure if these owners are aware that when (not if) interest rate goes up by say 2%, the amount of interest they have to pay will increase by folds, not by percentage.

    As for maintenance, it really depends on the conditions of your landed property. If its already old and worn, there is really nothing much you could do so cost is low. However for those living in those modern and newly build landed property, especially those using all sort of funny material, cost of maintenance to keep it new and fresh are extremely expensive because wear and tear rate are extremely high under Singapore hot and humid weather

    Plus if you are one of those who want to cut corners during A&A or someone who went crazy to use all sort of funny material recommended by your ID, then you will be in for big trouble when things starts to fade, warp, leak and crack.
    Usually need a major overhaul to keep it in pristine condition. The roof is the weakest part.

  13. #133
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    The landed upkeep vs condo maintenance fees has been discussed to death

    http://forums.condosingapore.com/sho...=17132&page=10

    Post#99

    Quote Originally Posted by proper-t

    Please note that there has been no studies or reports (at least as far I am aware) done on maintenance cost for condos/apts vs landed and hence no empricial evidence is available to prove that one is costlier or cheaper than the other. However, please note that upkeep of landed is discretionary whilst condo maintenance fees is mandatory.

    As a point of reference, an apartment at Hamilton at Scotts (2756sf) has an
    estimated maintenance fee of $1,500 per month. This translates to $18,000 p.a. or $4,500 per quarter.

    This $18K per year is a mandatory expenditure and buyers should note that it
    is an offence not to pay the maintenance fees. The legal remedies which your MC can take to recover the fees are outlined below as described in an extract of a condo resident's handbook.

    5. Late payment interest (rates to be determined by the Management) will be levied on Maintenance Charges not received after 30 days from the date of notice to pay.

    6. Further legal action shall be taken should the Subsidiary Proprietor
    continue to default on Maintenance payment. The following action could be taken by the MCST to recover arrears :-

    a. Lodge a charge against the said unit (SP will be prevented from selling the unit unless outstanding maintenance charges, with interest, are fully paid);
    b. Application of garnishment order on the unit, if the Subsidiary Proprietor is collecting rental from the unit;
    c. File legal claim at the Small Claims Tribunal;
    d. Application to the courts to have the unit sold to recover all outstanding maintenance charges still owing

    The above mentioned legal actions are enforceable under the BMSMA (2004)

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by wirehtc View Post
    Usually need a major overhaul to keep it in pristine condition. The roof is the weakest part.
    thats the reason why many landed owners are forced to sell because they cant afford to the major repair and their house is always empty.
    "Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

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    Only landed owners can provide the true answer. Do not speculate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post
    thats the reason why many landed owners are forced to sell because they cant afford to the major repair and their house is always empty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post
    thats the reason why many landed owners are forced to sell because they cant afford to the major repair and their house is always empty.
    Please show facts or statistics to substantiate your statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008 View Post
    Only landed owners can provide the true answer. Do not speculate.
    There is nothing unique about landed property, its just bigger property build on land. And the end of the day, when they cant afford to live in there, they will need or force to sell.

    And for landed property investors, they are always looking for old folk living in old and run down landed property to find bargain.

    This is the fact in life that you can see in HDB and condo. dont need to make it sound so exclusive or mysterious
    "Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

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    Look at your title deeds if you hve one. A lot of difference between strata title and landed title. BTW EG has hit new high in$psf in sept caveat. Look forward to mrt stn opening at telok ayer with a similar marina link mall between telok ayer and chinatown stn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post
    There is nothing unique about landed property, its just bigger property build on land. And the end of the day, when they cant afford to live in there, they will need or force to sell.

    And for landed property investors, they are always looking for old folk living in old and run down landed property to find bargain.

    This is the fact in life that you can see in HDB and condo. dont need to make it sound so exclusive or mysterious

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008 View Post
    Look at your title deeds if you hve one. A lot of difference between strata title and landed title. BTW EG has hit new high in$psf in sept caveat. Look forward to mrt stn opening at telok ayer with a similar marina link mall between telok ayer and chinatown stn.
    Many condo in Singapore are also achieving record price thats really nothing to brag about. So what happen after the mrt opening? Chinatown mall? Selling snake oil I lovesingapore t shirt and Merlin statue I guess?
    "Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

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    It sells on its own with proximity to marina bay area, raffles place and tanjong pagar and the port redevelopment 20 years later. Do not need to sell snake oil story as garment is behind it. Most importantly it is 999.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post
    Many condo in Singapore are also achieving record price thats really nothing to brag about. So what happen after the mrt opening? Chinatown mall? Selling snake oil I lovesingapore t shirt and Merlin statue I guess?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008 View Post
    It sells on its own with proximity to marina bay area, raffles place and tanjong pagar and the port redevelopment 20 years later. Do not need to sell snake oil story as garment is behind it. Most importantly it is 999.
    Location wise is good but it's old and maintence cost will get expensive when it need major repair. Is it true that some part of EG mscp have been converted to public car park?
    "Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

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    There is no mscp only basement carpark. It is good quality if u look at who is main contractor and architect. Look at the quality of some of the new projects these days. It is different fm sail, mbr, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post
    Location wise is good but it's old and maintence cost will get expensive when it need major repair. Is it true that some part of EG mscp have been converted to public car park?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008 View Post
    There is no mscp only basement carpark. It is different fm sail, mbr, etc.

    So basement car park converted to public car park?
    "Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post
    So basement car park converted to public car park?
    Agreed at agm for season parking with limited lots and not public hourly parking. Mainly PMET car owners parkat different basement fm owners. Very few residents here. Carpark is only partial full even with season parking. There is parking lot crunch at shenton way area and expensive too with plan of reducing number of carpark lot in cbd. Maintenance and repair cost are taken care of from this income.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post
    thats the reason why many landed owners are forced to sell because they cant afford to the major repair and their house is always empty.
    Many landed owners? 10, 100, 1000 or some imaginary numbers conjured in your head?

    As the saying goes,

    If you want respect, please back up what you said with facts or else just get used to be treated like a headless troll

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    He should know there is only 75000 in Singapore.
    Quote Originally Posted by hsifreffup View Post
    Many landed owners? 10, 100, 1000 or some imaginary numbers conjured in your head?

    As the saying goes,

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008 View Post
    Agreed at agm for season parking with limited lots and not public hourly parking. Mainly PMET car owners parkat different basement fm owners. Very few residents here. Carpark is only partial full even with season parking. There is parking lot crunch at shenton way area and expensive too with plan of reducing number of carpark lot in cbd. Maintenance and repair cost are taken care of from this income.
    That mean EG allow anyone to walk in and out of the mscp wimpy by pretending to collect cars?
    "Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

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    Maybe you have not stayed in a condo before by asking such a question. You are referring to public housing car park.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post
    That mean EG allow anyone to walk in and out of the mscp wimpy by pretending to collect cars?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008 View Post
    Maybe you have not stayed in a condo before by asking such a question. You are referring to public housing car park.
    When you allow outsiders to use your MSCP, wont that mean they will have direct access to the condo carpark and they will be able to bring anyone they like into the estate.

    unless you are telling me that all season parking holder has got access card to gain entry to carpark? but then again, when security is breached, wont that defeat the purpose of living in condo? Might as well live in HDB?
    "Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

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    Bro, there is something call the restricted card access system. It is common feature in upmarket condo where you cannot go into another other floor except your floor. Unless jgateway does not have it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post
    When you allow outsiders to use your MSCP, wont that mean they will have direct access to the condo carpark and they will be able to bring anyone they like into the estate.

    unless you are telling me that all season parking holder has got access card to gain entry to carpark? but then again, when security is breached, wont that defeat the purpose of living in condo? Might as well live in HDB?

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