Land Storm is Here!! (Part II)

[Ringo33]

Unlike condo, many bought for investment (of course also self stay)
Most landed are bought for self stay. And to a rich man, there is a price for a house but a home is priceless.

There are hard facts to show the landed property owners are not as rich and wealthy, they are just more highly leveraged. And thats the reason why during a crisis, landed segment is hit the hardest.

Honestly, how can you call your newly acquired landed house that is you planning to tear down and rebuild as your dream home?

priceless? Are you sure or not? Maybe SSD is the reason why its priceless.

[DC33_2008]

Since you know so much about landed, what is the $psf construction cost to be in the mid-end region?

Talking about building your dream home is a bit like people buying diamond. When they see a big stone on display or 10x enlarge picture on the magazine, their mind will create an illusion that the stone is very special, flawless and its worth more than its price tag, some might go as far as call it priceless. But once you have it, look at it too often, you will start to see its flaws and the illusion will quickly disappear.

For the very niche rich and wealthy, buying and rebuilding homes is a form of ego trip, rather than chasing after the "dream home" because we all have different dreams all the time. So for them, they buy, they tear down, rebuilt, show off, then then they get rid of it because they get sick and tired of it, just like how they will change their ultimate sports car after 6 months.

However for those ordinary folks who try to act rich by over leveraging themselves I guess they dont really have a choice to sell or to rent. Just have to suck it all up and hang on to it regardless of what happen.
However please do not try to make it sound like landed investors doesnt care if price fall or not because in the real world, even the GCBs owners do care.

For $1.5m rebuilding cost? I think that must be a pretty smallish landed property using some cheap no name builders who are going to give you lousy material and fixtures that is only good for 1 to 2 years. Very soon you will be dealing with shit load of repairs, disappointment when things starts to fall apart. Just sharing my observation.

[Adva181]

Talking about building your dream home is a bit like people buying diamond. When they see a big stone on display or 10x enlarge picture on the magazine, their mind will create an illusion that the stone is very special, flawless and its worth more than its price tag, some might go as far as call it priceless. But once you have it, look at it too often, you will start to see its flaws and the illusion will quickly disappear.

For the very niche rich and wealthy, buying and rebuilding homes is a form of ego trip, rather than chasing after the "dream home" because we all have different dreams all the time. So for them, they buy, they tear down, rebuilt, show off, then then they get rid of it because they get sick and tired of it, just like how they will change their ultimate sports car after 6 months.

However for those ordinary folks who try to act rich by over leveraging themselves I guess they dont really have a choice to sell or to rent. Just have to suck it all up and hang on to it regardless of what happen.
However please do not try to make it sound like landed investors doesnt care if price fall or not because in the real world, even the GCBs owners do care.

For $1.5m rebuilding cost? I think that must be a pretty smallish landed property using some cheap no name builders who are going to give you lousy material and fixtures that is only good for 1 to 2 years. Very soon you will be dealing with shit load of repairs, disappointment when things starts to fall apart. Just sharing my observation.

Cheap material? Yes you may be an expert in property. Just stay there n dun cross the line. I am a contractor and building houses for people for many years.
The average psf for building a landed is $350psf to $450psf depending on the "class" you want. For me, 1.5m it's just the cost price.

[Adva181]

There are hard facts to show the landed property owners are not as rich and wealthy, they are just more highly leveraged. And thats the reason why during a crisis, landed segment is hit the hardest.

Honestly, how can you call your newly acquired landed house that is you planning to tear down and rebuild as your dream home?

priceless? Are you sure or not? Maybe SSD is the reason why its priceless.

Hmm sour grape?
Lets discuss this topic again after you can afford one.
People from different league thinks differently.

[Arcachon]

Cheap material? Yes you may be an expert in property. Just stay there n dun cross the line. I am a contractor and building houses for people for many years.
The average psf for building a landed is $350psf to $450psf depending on the "class" you want. For me, 1.5m it's just the cost price.

Wow 350 to 450 psf.


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=358211

Assuming an all-in land cost of about $240 psf per plot ratio, market watchers estimate that the breakeven cost for a new condo/SoHo project on the site could come in below $500 psf for the UOL and Low Keng Huat tie-up.

[Ringo33]

Cheap material? Yes you may be an expert in property. Just stay there n dun cross the line. I am a contractor and building houses for people for many years.
The average psf for building a landed is $350psf to $450psf depending on the "class" you want. For me, 1.5m it's just the cost price.

Since you are builder may I know on average how long can a modern landed home last before they will need to be refurbished again.

If a landed is already max out to maximum build in area, do you think it will be viable for future investors to buy and rebuild if floor area remain the same?

[Adva181]

Wow 350 to 450 psf.


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=358211

Assuming an all-in land cost of about $240 psf per plot ratio, market watchers estimate that the breakeven cost for a new condo/SoHo project on the site could come in below $500 psf for the UOL and Low Keng Huat tie-up.

In 2006, the cost of concrete is $60/m3.
Now it cost $110/m3.
The cost of steel is $600+ back then and it's $1200/ton now.

[Ringo33]

Wow 350 to 450 psf.


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=358211

Assuming an all-in land cost of about $240 psf per plot ratio, market watchers estimate that the breakeven cost for a new condo/SoHo project on the site could come in below $500 psf for the UOL and Low Keng Huat tie-up.

Landed and high rise cost is different. 250psf cost is based on mass market quality and historical material cost.

[Adva181]

Since you are builder may I know on average how long can a modern landed home last before they will need to be refurbished again.

If a landed is already max out to maximum build in area, do you think it will be viable for future investors to buy and rebuild if floor area remain the same?

When price of any sector of property falls, others will follow suit.
Your JG will fall as well.

All your thread u keep talking about investors. But all the while I am
talking about owner occupier.

Dun mix them up.

[Ringo33]

In 2006, the cost of concrete is $60/m3.
Now it cost $110/m3.
The cost of steel is $600+ back then and it's $1200/ton now.

This is exactly the reason why many contractors are using cheap substitute material to boost margin.

Since you are in this trade you should know a trick or two on how to cut corners without your clients knowing. Like introducing cheap material that look expensive but not lasting.

[Ringo33]

When price of any sector of property falls, others will follow suit.
Your JG will fall as well.

All your thread u keep talking about investors. But all the while I am
talking about owner occupier.

Dun mix them up.

Don't you think you should be the one not to mix your owner occupied view with views of those who are interested with tracking buying and selling opportunity?

Already mention before that there are hard facts to show that not all landed owners are rich, and if they are then we shoud be seeing price correction.

And since you are builder would you agree that ura price index does not reflect the cost which owners have pump into rebuilding before selling? And that the price gain on landed property could have been grossly over play?

[DC33_2008]

This range is reasonable. It may be more if there is a need for excavation to build parital or one-storey basement, and may require new foundations, ground beams for new addition of spaces, etc. I am fortunate to have done it in 2000 at a fraction of the cost given lower material cost, labour cost, lower GST, etc.

Cheap material? Yes you may be an expert in property. Just stay there n dun cross the line. I am a contractor and building houses for people for many years.
The average psf for building a landed is $350psf to $450psf depending on the "class" you want. For me, 1.5m it's just the cost price.

[Adva181]

Don't you think you should be the one not to mix your owner occupied view with views of those who are interested with tracking buying and selling opportunity?

Already mention before that there are hard facts to show that not all landed owners are rich, and if they are then we shoud be seeing price correction.

And since you are builder would you agree that ura price index does not reflect the cost which owners have pump into rebuilding before selling? And that the price gain on landed property could have been grossly over play?

Lets discuss again when you are on same level.

By the way, Happy New Year to all n wish everyone good health.

[Ringo33]

Lets discuss again when you are on same level.

By the way, Happy New Year to all n wish everyone good health.

You might have just bought at the tail end of landed property cycle. Looking at how things goes i woyd expect prices to continue to soften significantly. Since you are in the construction industry you shoud know the private sector construction sector are extremely quiet now and only the governent projects that helping the industry along and not many construction companies are qualify for government projects.

Have you decided to rebuild your newly acquired landed property or still considering?

If its a old one I don't think you have a choice because the electrical plumbing aircon System will need to be replace. I will be a big job for sure.

[Adva181]

You might have just bought at the tail end of landed property cycle. Looking at how things goes i woyd expect prices to continue to soften significantly. Since you are in the construction industry you shoud know the private sector construction sector are extremely quiet now and only the governent projects that helping the industry along and not many construction companies are qualify for government projects.

Have you decided to rebuild your newly acquired landed property or still considering?

If its a old one I don't think you have a choice because the electrical plumbing aircon System will need to be replace. I will be a big job for sure.

Thanks for your concern. I am aware of the high price therefore I bought it at 15% below bank valuation. At least I got some buffer when price corrects.

It's pretty new and done up around 5yrs ago. Just that plot ratio not max out and it's abit wasted for now.

[DC33_2008]

You do not need any major renovation for another 20 years. Anyway you can do it at cost price since you are in this line. Maintenance cost of landed is certainly cheaper than a condo based on psf.

Thanks for your concern. I am aware of the high price therefore I bought it at 15% below bank valuation. At least I got some buffer when price corrects.

It's pretty new and done up around 5yrs ago. Just that plot ratio not max out and it's abit wasted for now.

[Ringo33]

Thanks for your concern. I am aware of the high price therefore I bought it at 15% below bank valuation. At least I got some buffer when price corrects.

It's pretty new and done up around 5yrs ago. Just that plot ratio not max out and it's abit wasted for now.

15% valuation? Didnt know the market is that bad.

[Adva181]

15% valuation? Didnt know the market is that bad.

Haha, no. But the seller is desperate to offload after committing to a new place.

[Adva181]

You do not need any major renovation for another 20 years. Anyway you can do it at cost price since you are in this line. Maintenance cost of landed is certainly cheaper than a condo based on psf.

Yup bro, cheers!

[DC33_2008]

Only landed owners understand it.

Yup bro, cheers!

[Adva181]

Only landed owners understand it.

We have very similar profile.
Cheers to our D1 & D7 too.
Huat arh...

[Ringo33]

You do not need any major renovation for another 20 years. Anyway you can do it at cost price since you are in this line. Maintenance cost of landed is certainly cheaper than a condo based on psf.

landed property is no different from condo or penthouses, except that for condo, the estate will take care of whatever that is outside the house which including roof leaking, painting, water seepage, while for landed owner will have to take care of everything from A-Z.

For landed property, there are many hidden expenses. One which people rarely talk about is their bill for pest control, be it snakes, rodent, and termite. And such expenses are recurrence because subterranean termites can happen anywhere and anytime. I think for a routine check plus baits, it should come up to about 2 to 3K per year.

Another major expenses which you cant avoid is air condition, because every 10 to 15 years (at max) you will need to install new aircon system which include re doing all the gas pipping. For landed, the bill will easily come up to >$40k upwards. (in this area, there is to replacement for displacement)

Other bills to consider will of course be automatic main gate, alarm system, electrical system etc. And if you have a pool, the cost of maintaining it alone will cost more than the maintenance fee of most condo. The worst part of it is that, most landed owners wont even bother to use their own pools because they are too small.

And like in condo, those decking around the pools will usually need to be refitted again after every 10 years, and that will easily cost $50k depending on size.

In this business there is no replacement for displacement. The bigger the house the more repair you need. And for landed you will never be able to get the same economy of scale when sourcing for contractor as you dont have a professional estate manager to take care of the place.

[Adva181]

Lol..

Sometimes I really salute your effort in replying almost every thread.

You have a valid point on all these cost but to those who can afford it now, these cost are not significant to us. If we can spend 1-2m on downpayment what is these maintenance cost to us? HNWI are not bothered about these.

A good size 4bedder condo maintenance fee plus sinking fund will set u aside $400-$500 a month x 12 will be $5000-6000pa.

If you multiply by 15 years, it will be 81k.

So if I spend 40k on a/c and 20k on pets control and 40k on maintenance every 15yrs, I dun see any issues with this.

Anyway good analysis for those on the border line and for the average joe landed wannabe.
It is something that every landed owner should knows about.

Cheers

[Ringo33]

Lol..

Sometimes I really salute your effort in replying almost every thread.

You have a valid point on all these cost but to those who can afford it now, these cost are not significant to us. If we can spend 1-2m on downpayment what is these maintenance cost to us? HNWI are not bothered about these.

A good size 4bedder condo maintenance fee plus sinking fund will set u aside $400-$500 a month x 12 will be $5000-6000pa.

If you multiply by 15 years, it will be 81k.

So if I spend 40k on a/c and 20k on pets control and 40k on maintenance every 15yrs, I dun see any issues with this.

Anyway good analysis for those on the border line and for the average joe landed wannabe.
It is something that every landed owner should knows about.

Cheers

Condo is a lifestyle products which have real facilities such as real pool jaccuzi steam room gym ktv room function room tennis court bba playground and visitor carpark space for our guests.

I don't presume you have those in your landed?

Unfortunately what condo dweller can't do is to hold funerals in our estate. But I am sure landed can

[DC33_2008]

What is the problem of having a room for gym, a room for ktv with good sound system, roof terrace with jacuzzi, a swimming pool, game room, etc, in a landed property

Condo is a lifestyle products which have real facilities such as real pool jaccuzi steam room gym ktv room function room tennis court bba playground and visitor carpark space for our guests.

I don't presume you have those in your landed?

Unfortunately what condo dweller can't do is to hold funerals in our estate. But I am sure landed can

[DC33_2008]

.. and our FH landed too!

We have very similar profile.
Cheers to our D1 & D7 too.
Huat arh...

[Ringo33]

What is the problem of having a room for gym, a room for ktv with good sound system, roof terrace with jacuzzi, a swimming pool, game room, etc, in a landed property

show me some picture of what you are hallucinating then we talk

[DC33_2008]

It is not my job to show you but for you to have and enjoy them.

show me some picture of what you are hallucinating then we talk

[Ringo33]

It is not my job to show you but for you to have and enjoy them.

If it doesnt exist, how are you suppose to show us anything? And honestly if YOU really have what you claim YOU have, then YOU surely wont be telling us that maintenance cost of landed is cheaper than condo.

Another EPIC failed attempt. Just like what you said about your friend who is in "SENIOR POSITION" at URA telling you that URA is not moving to JLD.

Isnt that all Bull Shit because URA has never intent to move to JLD, EVER.


EPIC.

What is the problem of having a room for gym, a room for ktv with good sound system, roof terrace with jacuzzi, a swimming pool, game room, etc, in a landed property

[DC33_2008]

It is for you to find out and not my business to disclose.

If it doesnt exist, how are you suppose to show us anything? And honestly if YOU really have what you claim YOU have, then YOU surely wont be telling us that maintenance cost of landed is cheaper than condo.

Another EPIC failed attempt. Just like what you said about your friend who is in "SENIOR POSITION" at URA telling you that URA is not moving to JLD.

Isnt that all Bull Shit because URA has never intent to move to JLD, EVER.


EPIC.