Should we BUY?

[DMCK]

i sense that many people over-leveraged nowadays

[chestnut]

The main problem is that some may have this 800K and aiming to borrow 8 million.

"Borrow" and "borrow to the hilt" are two separate things.

TDSR has taken care of that... HAHAHAHAHAHA

[chestnut]

frankly 800K cash these days are nothing much to scream abt. so Question should be what if nothing is don't with the 800K cash. what will happen to it?

Tell that to someone who earns 3,705 per month (thats the median salary)
http://www.mom.gov.sg/newsroom/Pages...spx?listid=535

Real income growth strengthened in 2013, as nominal median monthly income from work of full-time employed residents (including employer CPF contributions) increased over the year by 6.5% to $3,705 in June 2013 and inflation eased1. The growth in real median income accelerated from 2.5% in 2012 to 3.9%P in 2013.

the 800K is just an example.... please put in the amount you so desire...

[chestnut]

i sense that many people over-leveraged nowadays

TDSR took care of it.

[Kelonguni]

TDSR has taken care of that... HAHAHAHAHAHA

Yes Sir, which goes back to our original discussion about the levelling effects of TDSR, prevention of some of the rich getting "richer" in debts, and "unable to pay group" of (speculated) 80% who are stuck by ABSD and TDSR.

The scenarios you proposed are not about this group.

[chestnut]

Yes Sir, which goes back to our original discussion about the levelling effects of TDSR, prevention of some of the rich getting "richer" in debts, and "unable to pay group" of (speculated) 80% who are stuck by ABSD and TDSR.

The scenarios you proposed are not about this group.

The affluent will find other instruments to invest.... The affluent will also be able to get financing if they want...

Check private banking.....

[Kelonguni]

The affluent will find other instruments to invest.... The rich will also be able to get financing if they want...

Check private banking.....

You are right. But at least taking some of their sails out of the equation for property investments allows lesser mortals an opening in this arena, thus the levelling effects. If not prices would surely have gone way out of reach already - megabubble proportions when OCR MM hits a million each. Not unfathomable without the 9 rounds of CMs.

[teddybear]

The rich can get all kind of debts easily, including printing papers (called "shares", "bonds", "warrants" etc)!

There are those REITs which are not subjected to so-called TDSR.............

Ultimately, TDSR, ABSD etc are just cooling measures for the not-rich and is a obstacle for them to get rich through debt (which now only the genuinely rich is able to)..........

They are prevented from getting richer in debts.

[chestnut]

You are right. But at least taking some of their sails out of the equation for property investments allows lesser mortals an opening in this arena, thus the levelling effects. If not prices would surely have gone way out of reach already - megabubble proportions when OCR MM hits a million each. Not unfathomable without the 9 rounds of CMs.

you are rite !!!!!!

A 1.5 mil would cost 1.695 mil.... hahahahahaha

[minority]

Tell that to someone who earns 3,705 per month (thats the median salary)
http://www.mom.gov.sg/newsroom/Pages...spx?listid=535

Real income growth strengthened in 2013, as nominal median monthly income from work of full-time employed residents (including employer CPF contributions) increased over the year by 6.5% to $3,705 in June 2013 and inflation eased1. The growth in real median income accelerated from 2.5% in 2012 to 3.9%P in 2013.

the 800K is just an example.... please put in the amount you so desire...

my desire arh...... still remain a Desire.

[Kelonguni]

The rich can get all kind of debts easily, including printing papers (called "shares", "bonds", "warrants" etc)!

There are those REITs which are not subjected to so-called TDSR.............

Ultimately, TDSR, ABSD etc are just cooling measures for the not-rich and is a obstacle for them to get rich through debt (which now only the genuinely rich is able to)..........

Definitely true,.

Ultimately, the rich can only get richer, and we all recognise that. The purpose of so many CMs is so that they do not do so at the expense of the not-so-rich.

Ultimately, REITs, shares, bonds, warrants are also available to everyone anyways, although some will have a higher entry point. But the speculation of these papers, their rise and fall does not affect every citizen (especially the bulk of average income group), as compared to property speculation.

[teddybear]

There is no levelling effects, only exaggerating effects!
Now, only the rich can play and get richer, while the rest sit and suck thumb!
Not only that, the policies causes prices to drop or even crash, the rich can get more debt to buy cheap cheap, while the poorer ones have to sell at low price or even at a loss because their cash were tied up (since cannot borrow more and put aside more buffer)!

While the original purpose of so many CMs may not be about doing so at the expense of the not-so-rich, but in reality it is just doing that!

Ultimately, the only winner is the govt through ABSD (just like implementing GST to help the poor! They so long never increase GST means they are no longer interested to help the poor? )

You are right. But at least taking some of their sails out of the equation for property investments allows lesser mortals an opening in this arena, thus the levelling effects. If not prices would surely have gone way out of reach already - megabubble proportions when OCR MM hits a million each. Not unfathomable without the 9 rounds of CMs.

[Kelonguni]

There is no levelling effects, only exaggerating effects!
Now, only the rich can play and get richer, while the rest sit and suck thumb!
Not only that, the policies causes prices to drop or even crash, the rich can get more debt to buy cheap cheap, while the poorer ones have to sell at low price or even at a loss because their cash were tied up (since cannot borrow more and put aside more buffer)!

While the original purpose of so many CMs may not be about doing so at the expense of the not-so-rich, but in reality it is just doing that!

Not true from my angle. I doubt the rich likes paying taxes - most of my research says they hate paying taxes the most.

If prices drop or crash, the huge loans that the rich have in existence will be first hit. They are also unlikely to want to commit to additional loans since most of it could be locked in their debts and papers that you mentioned.

CMs so far did not target first home ownership. If prices stalls or falls, the group that benefits the most will be those that progress from zero to one property. All other groups have to pay more in taxes or might not meet loan quantum due to existing loans. If this is not seen as helping the truly not-so-rich, what should have been done? Allow properties to fly sky high?

[Kelonguni]

Ultimately, the only winner is the govt through ABSD (just like implementing GST to help the poor! They so long never increase GST means they are no longer interested to help the poor? )

GST has political implications. I am sure we are all on the same page about that.

If you are getting your home for residence, there is no ABSD involved.

[walkthetiger]

If prices drop or crash, the huge loans that the rich have in existence will be first hit. They are also unlikely to want to commit to additional loans since most of it could be locked in their debts and papers that you mentioned.

...The smart ones would have cashed out before crash.....haha....Sometimes I do hear people saying my children are rich, actually they are just born with money only...

[Kelonguni]

...The smart ones would have cashed out before crash.....haha....Sometimes I do hear people saying my children are rich, actually they are just born with money only...

From the sensing of this forum, my intuition tells me that they cash out they will also put in some other instruments. Most likely IF there is a crash, they will cash out in the midst of the crash and suffer some paper loss as well.

Cashing out prematurely is also not wise based on what some forummers advise.

A freeze scenario and some wait time for incomes to catch up is happening, and it is definitely healthier for all.

[walkthetiger]

From the sensing of this forum, my intuition tells me that they cash out they will also put in some other instruments. Most likely IF there is a crash, they will cash out in the midst of the crash and suffer some paper loss as well.

Cashing out prematurely is also not wise based on what some forummers advise.

A freeze scenario and some wait time for incomes to catch up is happening, and it is definitely healthier for all.

Agree.. that is the norm... usually way... if the crash may caught them unprepared.

But, the money making rule....they will also sense the opportunity.. if there are circumstances where crash/opportunity on the way, they will be smiling all the way for getting it correct.... for the right time spotted again.... I doubt they will share this with you.

[Kelonguni]

Agree.. that is the norm... usually way.

But, the money making rule....they will also sense the opportunity.. if there are circumstances where crash/opportunity on the way, they will be smiling all the way for getting it correct.... for the right time spotted again.... I doubt they will share this with you.

But what if they get it wrong? For example, the crash does not happen significantly but rather flat or stable growth?

[walkthetiger]

But what if they get it wrong? For example, the crash does not happen significantly but rather flat or stable growth?

There is no perfect plan.... all depend how sharp you are..... Nowadays, too many are people thinking like making money is automatic, if it is so simple like everybody know how to do it, then you think you deserve to be escalated to be par with the top riches....

Probably my children will be those who only depending on financial consultant when they grew old one day, then see those other earning many times more than them, they will be falling behind gradually, as they are only able to sustain that little wealth....

[Kelonguni]

There is no perfect plan.... all depend how sharp you are..... Nowadays, too many are people thinking like making money is automatic, if it is so simple like everybody know how to do it, then you think you deserve to be escalated to be par with the top riches....

Probably my children will be those who only depending on financial consultant when they grew old one day, then see those other earning many times more than them, they will be falling behind gradually, as they are only able to sustain that little wealth....

Property as an asset class is also not that easy to cash out.

[walkthetiger]

Property as an asset class is also not that easy to cash out.

During the super high, even rubbishs are selling well,.just how difficult to cash out.
But many can't see it....that is why... nothing is permanent, include wealth...

Everything will change... wealth goes from people to people...it is moving around... the system is there to benefit people who knew one to two more ahead.
.

[Arcachon]

So how much is your loan now? Would u be worried if interest rates go up? Is your condos all rented out?

How much can a 44K loan?

LTV = 60%

If you know what is Money, then you know why interest rates can't go up.

One rented, the other TOP end of the year.

[Londonproperty123]

Material wealth is temporal. Why? Life on Earth is temporal.

[Arcachon]

Material wealth is temporal. Why? Life on Earth is temporal.

That is why you need to max whatever you have.

Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. Matthew 7:7

You come empty, you go empty. I know where I am going, do you.

[minority]

Definitely true,.

Ultimately, the rich can only get richer, and we all recognise that. The purpose of so many CMs is so that they do not do so at the expense of the not-so-rich.

Ultimately, REITs, shares, bonds, warrants are also available to everyone anyways, although some will have a higher entry point. But the speculation of these papers, their rise and fall does not affect every citizen (especially the bulk of average income group), as compared to property speculation.

Well if the Rich F it up they will be less rich. the normal folks over leverage and F it up they will become the new Poor. Who will be worst off? CM at least ensure people don't end up as the new poor if the over leverage.

[teddybear]

You are not seeing it!
Rich hate to pay taxes, but they know how to count!
Say the CMs cause prices to drop 15%, and they pay ABSD 15%, now they are NET not paying any ABSD taxes! It is the poorer seller (hit by CMs and must sell) paying!

CMs did not target first home ownership, but by virtue that it causes prices to drop, all these people many will be frozen to death, will they still buy? Ultimately, the one buying are the children of the rich who help to pay their down-payments! Again, the rich and their children are benefiting!

Not true from my angle. I doubt the rich likes paying taxes - most of my research says they hate paying taxes the most.

If prices drop or crash, the huge loans that the rich have in existence will be first hit. They are also unlikely to want to commit to additional loans since most of it could be locked in their debts and papers that you mentioned.

CMs so far did not target first home ownership. If prices stalls or falls, the group that benefits the most will be those that progress from zero to one property. All other groups have to pay more in taxes or might not meet loan quantum due to existing loans. If this is not seen as helping the truly not-so-rich, what should have been done? Allow properties to fly sky high?

There is no levelling effects, only exaggerating effects!
Now, only the rich can play and get richer, while the rest sit and suck thumb!
Not only that, the policies causes prices to drop or even crash, the rich can get more debt to buy cheap cheap, while the poorer ones have to sell at low price or even at a loss because their cash were tied up (since cannot borrow more and put aside more buffer)!

While the original purpose of so many CMs may not be about doing so at the expense of the not-so-rich, but in reality it is just doing that!

Ultimately, the only winner is the govt through ABSD (just like implementing GST to help the poor! They so long never increase GST means they are no longer interested to help the poor? )

[minority]

GST has political implications. I am sure we are all on the same page about that.

If you are getting your home for residence, there is no ABSD involved.

ABSD applies to the investment homes only . i.e. the 2nd home onwards.

[Kelonguni]

Lots of assumptions in what you stated, which might or might not be true. I don't see these assumptions being met - know a few very rich people and they don't quite follow what you stated here.

1. Why can't the seller be the rich seller or their rich children and must be poorer seller? In fact, most likely they are the richer group in the first place.

2. The children are privileged to begin with. You can't do anything about that inequality - going by your logic if no CMs, private prices will be out of 95% people's reach and continue to be jacked up and up by these rich children who can only become richer by selling to the next tier. Who really suffers?

3. Why would first time buyers be frozen to death by say a 10-15% drop in price or at least price freeze? Most likely they will be happy until almost die.

4. Not forgetting that maybe 95% of people are salaried employees even if they have rich parents. Even if they can pay more taxes, there is a cap on how much can be borrowed, especially if they have already borrowed for millions on a first property. Think TDSR.

There are numerous other embedded tax structures for investment homes, income tax, property tax etc. Not every person who can afford it will cheong private property - there are countless other instruments to go for.

You are not seeing it!
Rich hate to pay taxes, but they know how to count!
Say the CMs cause prices to drop 15%, and they pay ABSD 15%, now they are NET not paying any ABSD taxes! It is the poorer seller (hit by CMs and must sell) paying!

CMs did not target first home ownership, but by virtue that it causes prices to drop, all these people many will be frozen to death, will they still buy? Ultimately, the one buying are the children of the rich who help to pay their down-payments! Again, the rich and their children are benefiting!

[minority]

You are not seeing it!
Rich hate to pay taxes, but they know how to count!
Say the CMs cause prices to drop 15%, and they pay ABSD 15%, now they are NET not paying any ABSD taxes! It is the poorer seller (hit by CMs and must sell) paying!

CMs did not target first home ownership, but by virtue that it causes prices to drop, all these people many will be frozen to death, will they still buy? Ultimately, the one buying are the children of the rich who help to pay their down-payments! Again, the rich and their children are benefiting!

LOL! so price keep going up u is good for the so call poor buyers ?

[minority]

Lots of assumptions in what you stated, which might or might not be true. I don't see these assumptions being met - know a few very rich people and they don't quite follow what you stated here.

1. Why can't the seller be the rich seller or their rich children and must be poorer seller? In fact, most likely they are the richer group in the first place.

2. The children are privileged to begin with. You can't do anything about that inequality - going by your logic if no CMs, private prices will be out of 95% people's reach and continue to be jacked up and up by these rich children who can only become richer by selling to the next tier. Who really suffers?

3. Why would first time buyers be frozen to death by say a 10-15% drop in price or at least price freeze? Most likely they will be happy until almost die.

4. Not forgetting that maybe 95% of people are salaried employees even if they have rich parents. Even if they can pay more taxes, there is a cap on how much can be borrowed, especially if they have already borrowed for millions on a first property. Think TDSR.

There are numerous other embedded tax structures for investment homes, income tax, property tax etc. Not every person who can afford it will cheong private property - there are countless other instruments to go for.

aiyah his assumption is always skewed for his agenda.