Should we BUY?

[walkthetiger]

Lots of assumptions in what you stated, which might or might not be true. I don't see these assumptions being met - know a few very rich people and they don't quite follow what you stated here.

1. Why can't the seller be the rich seller or their rich children and must be poorer seller? In fact, most likely they are the richer group in the first place.

2. The children are privileged to begin with. You can't do anything about that inequality - going by your logic if no CMs, private prices will be out of 95% people's reach and continue to be jacked up and up by these rich children who can only become richer by selling to the next tier. Who really suffers?

3. Why would first time buyers be frozen to death by say a 10-15% drop in price or at least price freeze? Most likely they will be happy until almost die.

4. Not forgetting that maybe 95% of people are salaried employees even if they have rich parents. Even if they can pay more taxes, there is a cap on how much can be borrowed, especially if they have already borrowed for millions on a first property. Think TDSR.

There are numerous other embedded tax structures for investment homes, income tax, property tax etc. Not every person who can afford it will cheong private property - there are countless other instruments to go for.

.... it just tells me that you have trying to follow what others have been doing… still stucked in someone’s ideas.... Good luck...

[Kelonguni]

.... it just tells me that you have trying to follow what others have been doing… still stucked in someone’s ideas.... Good luck...

I am analysing the big picture here. So far it agrees with the data of home sales and prices.

My ideas are mine alone and I doubt others' experiences are the same. In my limited experience the CMs are necessary but it would have been better if TDSR was one of the early CMs. Then not so many would have over leveraged.

[Londonproperty123]

I am analysing the big picture here. So far it agrees with the data of home sales and prices.

My ideas are mine alone and I doubt others' experiences are the same. In my limited experience the CMs are necessary but it would have been better if TDSR was one of the early CMs. Then not so many would have over leveraged.

I agree TDSR should have been put in earlier. But better late than never.

[Arcachon]

What CMs do to 44K guy.

In Jun 2006, 5% about SGD 25,000 can book a 2 Bedroom at Southbank. This 44 K guy blur blur pay 20% about SGD 108,000, he could have 4, 2 Bedroom @ Southbank instead he get only one.

If the CMs before June 2006, game over.

Fast forward, this 44 K guy got 2 Bedroom and a 3 Bedroom PH for a deposit of SGD 108,000 in Jun 2006. This is what I call money transfer from the have to the have not.

[chestnut]

Decipher

http://www.mom.gov.sg/statistics-pub...ceNumbers.aspx

[Arcachon]

Decipher

http://www.mom.gov.sg/statistics-pub...ceNumbers.aspx

Not many people after reading the Data chose to believe. They chose to believe what they want to believe.

Not all Bubbles are Bubble.

[chestnut]

Not many people after reading the Data chose to believe. They chose to believe what they want to believe.

Not all Bubbles are Bubble.

Look at page 5. Compare June 2013 with Dec 2013 numbers on EP

http://www.aasingapore.com/media/fil...ation_2014.pdf

[teddybear]

You highlighted what I am trying to say with your experience: The CMs basically ensure that people like you will never be able to afford to participate in property investments now! Even those who do, if they are marginalized because of the CMs, they could end up selling CHEAP CHEAP to the rich who are the only ones left able to afford to buy now!

The entity with biggest benefit is the govt collecting ABSD.................

What CMs do to 44K guy.

In Jun 2006, 5% about SGD 25,000 can book a 2 Bedroom at Southbank. This 44 K guy blur blur pay 20% about SGD 108,000, he could have 4, 2 Bedroom @ Southbank instead he get only one.

If the CMs before June 2006, game over.

Fast forward, this 44 K guy got 2 Bedroom and a 3 Bedroom PH for a deposit of SGD 108,000 in Jun 2006. This is what I call money transfer from the have to the have not.

[minority]

You highlighted what I am trying to say with your experience: The CMs basically ensure that people like you will never be able to afford to participate in property investments now! Even those who do, if they are marginalized because of the CMs, they could end up selling CHEAP CHEAP to the rich who are the only ones left able to afford to buy now!

The entity with biggest benefit is the govt collecting ABSD.................

Go buy REITS! Buy liao kana burn blame government again? The Rich can lose $ the avg joe kana burn will be whole life time saving down the long kao.

[teddybear]

Buy REITs so that the REITs Managers can squeeze you out of fat Management fees?!

You know why the RICH want to set up and sell shares in REITs?

The smart ones buy and own the properties!
The even smarter ones buy and own the properties, then IPO and sell shares as REITs, use REITs company to pay their salaries (ie. from your share), squeeze you Management fees any amount they like while retaining control of these properties!
The REALLY STUPID ones buy REITs!

Go buy REITS! Buy liao kana burn blame government again? The Rich can lose $ the avg joe kana burn will be whole life time saving down the long kao.

[minority]

I am analysing the big picture here. So far it agrees with the data of home sales and prices.

My ideas are mine alone and I doubt others' experiences are the same. In my limited experience the CMs are necessary but it would have been better if TDSR was one of the early CMs. Then not so many would have over leveraged.

ABSD is to reduce too much $$ keep flowing into property.
SSD to remove the anti speculation factor who are in for the short term
TDSR to prevent people with weak books still trying to jump into the band wagon and get run over when int spike.

[minority]

Buy REITs so that the REITs Managers can squeeze you out of fat Management fees?!
You know why the RICH want to set up and sell shares in REITs?

so? Someone need to get paid to do the job and take the risk. why don't u offer to work for free and bear the risk then?

at least the buyer are not over leveraged and get run over by leveraging too much and get forced into bankruptcy when the interest goes up!

many rich also buy REITs ! so do the middle class folks!

[teddybear]

Ha ha ha! Yes yes, the RICH own management control of the REITs!
The stupid ones like the middle class folks buy REITs!

so? Someone need to get paid to do the job and take the risk. why don't u offer to work for free and bear the risk then?

at least the buyer are not over leveraged and get run over by leveraging too much and get forced into bankruptcy when the interest goes up!

many rich also buy REITs ! so do the middle class folks!

[teddybear]

So the REIT companies can be allowed to take more risks? Otherwise why no CMs for the REITs? Not only that they have no TDSR, ABSD, they can print any amount of shares, bonds, to leverage to the tilt!

And The middle income folks cannot be allowed to take risks?!

so? Someone need to get paid to do the job and take the risk. why don't u offer to work for free and bear the risk then?

at least the buyer are not over leveraged and get run over by leveraging too much and get forced into bankruptcy when the interest goes up!

many rich also buy REITs ! so do the middle class folks!

[Kelonguni]

Make money, not war.

Differences in angles and viewpoints only. Chill...

[Arcachon]

Look at page 5. Compare June 2013 with Dec 2013 numbers on EP

http://www.aasingapore.com/media/fil...ation_2014.pdf

What your take from the Data.

What I see is the so call EP reduce due to clearing of the so call "EP holder paying the employer" and others. Do you believe the next data there will be a increase.



Do you know who is working there?

[Arcachon]

http://www.expat-blog.com/forum/view...?id=104688&p=2

Many reasons can cause the rejection. Some of them:
1. Current Job scope totally different from your qualification
2. Company Not Good (Not Hiring Local hence not contributing to Singapore)
3. Your JOB can be easily replaced by Singaporean.

Singapore is trying to control the number of permit giving recently. They have been very strict.

First you open the gate, then when you have more than enough people you slowly close the gate and remove those not so good.

Why Singapore need so many FW? Answer is when we have a down turn we just stop the renewal of the EP whereas SC we need to find other work for them else they go to the Parliament drink coffee.

[chestnut]

What your take from the Data.

What I see is the so call EP reduce due to clearing of the so call "EP holder paying the employer" and others. Do you believe the next data there will be a increase.



Do you know who is working there?

Bro look at this

http://www.mom.gov.sg/statistics-pub...ceNumbers.aspx

Compare June 13 to Dec 13.

Hahahaha

[Arcachon]

Bro look at this

http://www.mom.gov.sg/statistics-pub...ceNumbers.aspx

Compare June 13 to Dec 13.

Hahahaha

Don't understand, if you are talking about the error in the EP then use it as a guide. There is no ROI to be accurate on the figure, it just for entertainment.

[hyenergix]

If GDP were to grow, there are almost no non-painful options. The only way is to continue to allow more foreign workers. Singapore is an aging society. You can depend on old workers to run fast and hard.

[chestnut]

Don't understand, if you are talking about the error in the EP then use it as a guide. There is no ROI to be accurate on the figure, it just for entertainment.

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking...an-chuan-jin-2

[Arcachon]

Acting Manpower Minister Tan Chuan-Jin sought to explain the tension between keeping Singapore open to foreign talent, and ensuring locals are given fair consideration in jobs, at a community dialogue in Pasir Ris on Sunday.

His priority is to look after Singaporeans, he said, but the balance between local and foreign workers is a "tricky issue" and Singapore cannot shut its doors to foreigners.

"If we swing too far the other way... some of these companies might find it better off to operate somewhere else," he said, adding that it will then lead to job losses for locals.

The minister was responding to a question from resident Benjamin Wan, 49, who felt that he was victimised twice by bosses who preferred foreigners instead of locals.

- See more at: http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking....4JOg1dRq.dpuf

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Benjamin Wan should change his mindset, Older Singaporean are great product of PAP worker programming. They are program to be great worker and when the employer don't employ them they are lost.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Give you a fish and you have fish for one day, teach you to fish and you have fish as and when you want.

[Wolverine23]

So it seems like only the rich are still buying...

Time to whack!!!

[minority]

So the REIT companies can be allowed to take more risks? Otherwise why no CMs for the REITs? Not only that they have no TDSR, ABSD, they can print any amount of shares, bonds, to leverage to the tilt!

And The middle income folks cannot be allowed to take risks?!

YES REITs can go down but at most the person lost his cash not make bankrupt. . common people go take up big debt. later cash call they can be made bankrupt so who they blame u?. Also there are rules that guide the reits. so u dont know dont any how KP. REITS even more strict! Total debt ratio no more than 35%. bay haio dont smoke out.

Specific rules for REITs in Singapore
In Singapore, there are specific rules and regulations that a REIT has to abide by. Firstly, 90% of its net income must be distributed to its shareholders in the form of dividends. Unlike other listed companies, they do not have the liberty to choose to retain a higher percentage of their profits. Other than that, a minimum of 70% of their assets must be invested into properties and at least 75% of their income must be derived from rental income.
In Singapore, there are also specific requirements on how much debt REITs can incur. If the company does not have a credit rating, their debt to asset ratio cannot exceed 35%. And even if the company has a credit rating, their debt to asset ratio cannot exceed 60%. Such regulations have been enforced to ensure that REITs would not face the problem of over-borrowing. What this means is that if they purchase a property priced at S$100 million, the maximum amount they can borrow to finance the purchase is 60% of the property price, or S$60 million in this case.
REITs were first introduced to Singapore only 10 years ago, where the first REIT was Capital Mall Trust listed in 2001. However, the history of REITs dates back to as early as 1960 in the US. Today, there are over 180 REITs in the US, amounting to total assets worth about US$350 billion.

[minority]

So the REIT companies can be allowed to take more risks? Otherwise why no CMs for the REITs? Not only that they have no TDSR, ABSD, they can print any amount of shares, bonds, to leverage to the tilt!

And The middle income folks cannot be allowed to take risks?!

REITS even better those u so call common people with $1000 can participate. not limited to those rich common people u so call.

Advantages of investing in REITs
REITs allow investors to have the opportunity to invest in real estate with as little as S$1,000. Because each REIT typically owns a portfolio of properties, even by investing in a single REIT, you are effectively diversifying your money into several property projects. On the other hand, if you are to directly invest in real estate, the minimum capital required in Singapore would probably amount to at least S$100,000.

[teddybear]

Today there are also thousands of Unit Trusts offered by various companies. And as we know now, even people like Warren Buffett are telling people to avoid Unit Trusts to avoid getting ripped off by the high expenses and management fees!
The same applies to REITs?

YES REITs can go down but at most the person lost his cash not make bankrupt. . common people go take up big debt. later cash call they can be made bankrupt so who they blame u?. Also there are rules that guide the reits. so u dont know dont any how KP.

Specific rules for REITs in Singapore
In Singapore, there are specific rules and regulations that a REIT has to abide by. Firstly, 90% of its net income must be distributed to its shareholders in the form of dividends. Unlike other listed companies, they do not have the liberty to choose to retain a higher percentage of their profits. Other than that, a minimum of 70% of their assets must be invested into properties and at least 75% of their income must be derived from rental income.
In Singapore, there are also specific requirements on how much debt REITs can incur. If the company does not have a credit rating, their debt to asset ratio cannot exceed 35%. And even if the company has a credit rating, their debt to asset ratio cannot exceed 60%. Such regulations have been enforced to ensure that REITs would not face the problem of over-borrowing. What this means is that if they purchase a property priced at S$100 million, the maximum amount they can borrow to finance the purchase is 60% of the property price, or S$60 million in this case.
REITs were first introduced to Singapore only 10 years ago, where the first REIT was Capital Mall Trust listed in 2001. However, the history of REITs dates back to as early as 1960 in the US. Today, there are over 180 REITs in the US, amounting to total assets worth about US$350 billion.

[minority]

Today there are also thousands of Unit Trusts offered by various companies. And as we know now, even people like Warren Buffett are telling people to avoid Unit Trusts to avoid getting ripped off by the high expenses and management fees!
The same applies to REITs?

who the hack ask u go buy unit trust? like that u must well compare penny stocks punting or compare go buy gold bullion investment that dupe people. So u want to compare abt time shares too? in case u donno what is time shares its not traded on SGX hor.

READ.. things u dont understand better dont comment. Thing u dont understand u better not buy.

Can u explain to me the expense ratio in REITs? Reits pay out on ave 4-6% dividen. today u buy a physical property take up a big loan ur gross yield is at most 3%. nett yield is even lower. and are face with the burden of higher cash up front and the interest risk. yes there can be capital gain. but thats comes with the risk.

So can u explain the REITs expense ration that is duping people? U cannot explain REITs suddenly want to bring in Unit Trust. then try to mixt that with REITS? u trying to dupe people here?

want to quote warren? Let me quote u one too.! For your so call common people who want to over leverage ?
"Only when the tide goes out do you discover who's been swimming naked!" -Warren Buffet

TDSR is basically to prevent people who want to jump into the pool naked. Save them the embarrassment when the tide rolls out of town! ur so call Rich can loose their shirt but still still have their trunks at least.! ur so naked swimmers are what TDSR is here to prevent!

[minority]

Wait.. Let me predict!!! let me look at my crystal ball......... u want to bring up GST next? and mix that with unit Trust and then say its REITs with ERP? then go back and mix ABSD? an SSD? n CFD ? ETF and HFT u can also lump it too I think.. what else did I miss?

[teddybear]

If the person is to own that commercial property directly, he would be getting >8% div for the same type of commercial property! An expense of 2-4% down the drain!
Otherwise you tell us is it that REIT owners and managers work for free for you and eat grass and subsidize you?

who the hack ask u go buy unit trust? like that u must well compare penny stocks punting or compare go buy gold bullion investment that dupe people. So u want to compare abt time shares too? in case u donno what is time shares its not traded on SGX hor.

READ.. things u dont understand better dont comment. Thing u dont understand u better not buy.

Can u explain to me the expense ratio in REITs? Reits pay out on ave 4-6% dividen. today u buy a physical property take up a big loan ur gross yield is at most 3%. nett yield is even lower. and are face with the burden of higher cash up front and the interest risk. yes there can be capital gain. but thats comes with the risk.

So can u explain the REITs expense ration that is duping people? U cannot explain REITs suddenly want to bring in Unit Trust. then try to mixt that with REITS? u trying to dupe people here?

want to quote warren? Let me quote u one too.! For your so call common people who want to over leverage ?
"Only when the tide goes out do you discover who's been swimming naked!" -Warren Buffet

TDSR is basically to prevent people who want to jump into the pool naked. Save them the embarrassment when the tide rolls out of town! ur so call Rich can loose their shirt but still still have their trunks at least.! ur so naked swimmers are what TDSR is here to prevent!

[Arcachon]

who the hack ask u go buy unit trust? like that u must well compare penny stocks punting or compare go buy gold bullion investment that dupe people. So u want to compare abt time shares too? in case u donno what is time shares its not traded on SGX hor.

READ.. things u dont understand better dont comment. Thing u dont understand u better not buy.

Can u explain to me the expense ratio in REITs? Reits pay out on ave 4-6% dividen. today u buy a physical property take up a big loan ur gross yield is at most 3%. nett yield is even lower. and are face with the burden of higher cash up front and the interest risk. yes there can be capital gain. but thats comes with the risk.

So can u explain the REITs expense ration that is duping people? U cannot explain REITs suddenly want to bring in Unit Trust. then try to mixt that with REITS? u trying to dupe people here?

want to quote warren? Let me quote u one too.! For your so call common people who want to over leverage ?
"Only when the tide goes out do you discover who's been swimming naked!" -Warren Buffet

TDSR is basically to prevent people who want to jump into the pool naked. Save them the embarrassment when the tide rolls out of town! ur so call Rich can loose their shirt but still still have their trunks at least.! ur so naked swimmers are what TDSR is here to prevent!

What I don't understand I don't buy.

What I know so far is SGD 108,000 buy 2 Bedroom at Southbank and 3 Bedroom PH at Terrasse, what return, what dividend, what ROE, ...... I don't understand I don't buy.

If Bank can loan me money I will still buy property. I need only to pay the deposit and there are so many people working for my investment to gain profit for me.