Junior
Buying investment properties motivate one to work harder.... Going into debt makes one more hard working.... Not debt = complacency..... If one is happy at where one is, it is ok.... Different stroke for different people....Originally Posted by Kelonguni
Cheers....
Btw, just calculate how much mortgage left if you rent out for 30 years w/o capital gains....
Junior
If buying property evoke stress, one should not buy.... If it makes one have sleepless nights, don't buy.... If it starts a quarrel between spouse, don't buy.... If the job is uncertain, don't buy....
Private only constitute 20% of total housing... It is not for everyone.... Especially those who are pessimistic....
Senior
Let me see.
Flat Type 5-Room
Flat Model Improved
Date Of Application 25 Oct 1993
Date Of Purchase 01 Nov 1995
Purchase Price $225,600
Outstanding Balance $ 61,437.96 as at 29 Oct 2014
Buy HDB 5 Room in 1995 for SGD 248,160, loan SGD 200,000. since 01 Nov 1995 after 19 years 31 Oct 2020 (25 yrs loan max)
Monthly Instalment = $ 923.00
173,320.72 74,860
Accrued interest as at SEP 2014 $ 58,086.92 27,646.97
Total principal amount withdrawn and accrued interest $ 231,407.64 102,506.97 = 333,914.61
Ultimate Underdog
My calculations are not far off, better in fact.
But do try the same calculations for a 500k HDB bought today.
The three laws of Kelonguni:
Where there is kelong, there is guni.
No kelong no guni.
More kelong = more guni.
Senior
Ok, now after 19 years, not staying in HDB.
Rent out for SGD 2500 x 12 = 30,000. a year.
Lease balance 2014-1997=82.
Rental no change for 82 years = 82x30,000 = SGD 2,460,000.
So do I sell now for SGD 640,000 or collect rental.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ggv7e5gusa...0plan.pdf?dl=0
Newbie
There's no doubt that savings will grow with rising affluence. Though we do make decisions based on numbers, there's an emotive factor to it as well. That's the reason why when prices crash, not everyone will rush in to buy even if they have the cash for it.
These people who are sitting on more cash are buying now? If they are accumulating cash, it's because of the measures? If it is and measures don't change, will they still buy? They will only buy when price drops and prices are lowered? Then would prices drop and then be supported by them only after that? If so, wouldn't there be a meaningful correction that the govt is looking at?
Newbie
A real investor = one with sufficient cash for investment at the right time
I believe most of the real property investors here are waiting for prices to drop so they can make a fast buck. Very few (stupid ones) I know will not take advantage of a declining market. Emotive factor is one thing, but investing is another. Most real property investors will not act according to their emotions, as that's the basic rule of investing. So I believe most will go in at the right time. When's the right time? I believe each of us here has a different gauge, with our success depending on it. If you're good at reading the market, you will make a fast buck!
Now, let's us talk about the remaining 80%. Nothing can save the property market and I believe it will continue to decline from here. The rich investors does not have the ability and will not save a falling market. Because cash rich investors are the minorities (that's how they can become rich... rich people become rich by exploiting many more people). The masses are the ones who have the ability to move the market and since they aren't savvy they are in worse position. Most youngsters I know have zero or little savings. A real investor would not want to catch a falling knife when the correction is imminent. We all know the market would drop because of the blind majorities. There's a saying that when you hear all the aunties in the wet market buying stocks it's time you get out because that's the perfect indication of a bubble. The majorities will always be herd followers and will bear the brunt of a falling market so that the smart and rich ones can make more money. Goes the saying that the rich gets richer.
So to all of you here, the termination of QE is just the beginning. There's alot more room to go in terms of price crashing and I believe the real investors are just waiting for this day to come. The silly ones will be the ones hoping that prices will not fall because they have exhausted all their cash.
Last edited by pmet; 31-10-14 at 00:59.
Senior
This one I don't agree, the first step to being rich is yourself.
If you think money is all evil, the rich exploiting many more people, you will be blinded and you will not act.
Everyone know what is money, how many care to understand how money work.
There are rich who are evil and there are rich who help others.
How many care to understand QE, ECB printing money, Japan printing money, China printing money, in fact the whole world is printing money.
To do nothing and say "the rich exploiting many more people" you are just giving excuse why you do not have and not how others have.
The world information is now at your finger tip and how many care to use their finger to learn than to be entertained.
I know nut about money until I am in the last 40's, always wonder how people buy million dollar property with just their income and never think "the rich exploiting many more people".
Senior
Newbie
Just think of stock trading. If you don't buy low and sell high, then how you make money? Remember after you sell high, many more people after you will be trapped holding worthless stocks. In order to earn money, someone else have to give.
Wonder why the wealth gap in US, India, China, Singapore are so high? Nobody said rich investors are evil, just that they make use of the more mentally challenged people to make money.
How did Mark Zuckerberg make his money? From those who bought into his company. You give, I take. But in order to make it rich, I have to take from many more people.
Nothing is free in this world and not even money printing (US PPP declined with the dollar during QE so millions of American had paid the price). Money can be converted from something else but not created. Money has to come from somewhere and stupid people will loose more to the rich.
Senior
Interesting logic.
1. Stock trading, I brought SBS shares in the 80's because I need the Bus Card for monthly season bus stamp for unlimited travel on SBS Bus for SGD 4000. 10 years later I sold it for SGD 10,000. wonder who have to give. The company over the years have been making profit not from transporting people but from the Bus advertisement.
2. How people make money from mentally challenged people ?????
3. Mark Zuckerberg create facebook because he saw something other don't, facebook make money by selling advertisement and people buy his share, wonder how to take from many more people ?????
4. Money printing nowadays don't need ink and paper, you just need to key into the Bank computer system and money is created. I brought a 2 Bedroom for SGD 535,000 in 2006 the Bank email to me whether I am interested to loan more because my unit is value at SGD 1,550,000 in 2011. A million dollar is created wonder where this money came from and who loose it. I use to think someone deposit money in the Bank and other loan from the deposit, I was wrong the Bank don't need deposit to loan they just create the money. The government have to use TDSR in order to control the bank lending.
Ultimate Underdog
1. Low risk lower gains, but stable.
4. Take it as gain for risks taken. Inflation, QE, low interest rates etc.
The three laws of Kelonguni:
Where there is kelong, there is guni.
No kelong no guni.
More kelong = more guni.
Newbie
The only reason I'm into property is ability to leverage and use people's money to pay for the mortgage. The last few years were the best, should I say golden years in my pty investment history, due to ultra low interest rates. Having said that, other forms of non-leveraged investment is still necessary.
Global recession is coming....
Well said!
That is why govt should control HDB flats' prices from the start with all sort of cooling measures when property hots up instead of target private property and their prices, and letting HDB flats prices run out of control!
Global recession is coming....
QE end and interest to raise very slowly (as Fed said) means US stock prices will FLY FLY FLY! Target S&P at least 2200 by end of next year!
You will see............................
However, QE ending coupled with tightening of foreigners into Singapore, costs inflation, TDSR, ABSD, etc means those MASS MARKET private condos will be in for a HARD TIME!
Also standard of living for Singaporeans will go down the drain as developers will try to make their private properties "more affordable" by building smaller and smaller sizes and "eating" up your usable space (via BIG BIG balcony, air-con ledge, BIG BIG your own private lift lobby area etc!), while buyers will try to save on ABSD, try to overcome TDSR by buying smaller size units etc!
We will see soon....................................
Last edited by teddybear; 31-10-14 at 08:16.
ipropertyguru
Policy within singapore control our dear Tharman bbrother will act on it. Dont worry.
Ultimate Underdog
Quantitative easing: giving cash to the public would have been more effective
The impact of quantitative easing was blunted by unconventional monetary policies and conservative fiscal policies
Janet Yellen, Ben Bernanke's successor, has called time on quantitative easing in the US.
It’s 2008. Your name is Ben Bernanke, the world’s most powerful central banker. The world’s financial system is going through its own version of the China Syndrome. Do you: a) do nothing and trust the self-correcting properties of capitalism; b) cut interest rates as far and as fast as you can in the hope that cheap money will avert catastrophe; or c) go for broke by trying something different?
Bernanke, an expert on the 1930s, chose c). He embraced the idea of quantitative easing, which involves increasing the money supply in order to stimulate economic activity. The Bank of England quickly followed suit. Neither Bernanke nor Mervyn King wanted to be known as the central banker who failed to prevent a deep recession becoming a second Great Depression.
The decision by Bernanke’s successor, Janet Yellen, to call time on QE is an appropriate juncture to ask some fundamental questions. Has QE worked? Does it mean the end of economic stimulus? Who really gained from the policy? Were there any better alternatives?
The answer to the first question is that QE has worked, up to a point. Sure, this has been a tepid recovery in the US and a non-existent recovery in Europe, but the outcome would almost certainly have been a lot worse had central banks not augmented ultra-low interest rates with their money creation programmes. The comparison between the US and Europe is telling: monetary policy has been far more proactive and expansionary in the US than it has been in the eurozone, which helps to explain the disparity in growth and unemployment rates.
It is also the case, though, that the impact of QE has been blunted in the US and the UK by the combination of unconventional monetary policies with conservative fiscal policies. There has been a tug of war between stimulus and budgetary austerity.
The unspectacular recovery means that stimulus policies will continue. Even though the UK and the US are posting annual growth rates of around 3%, there is no hurry to start raising interest rates. Many financial analysts suspect that central banks will never reverse QE by selling the bonds they have bought.
QE has also had unforeseen side-effects. The policy involved allowing banks and other financial institutions to exchange bonds for cash, and the hope was that this would lead to improved flows of credit to firms looking to expand. In reality, it encouraged financial speculation in property, shares and commodities. The bankers and the hedge fund owners did well out of QE, but the side-effect of footloose money searching the globe for high yields was higher food and fuel prices. High inflation and minimal wage growth led to falling real incomes and a slower recovery.
QE could have been better designed. There could have been a better dove-tailing of monetary (interest rates and QE) and fiscal (tax and spending) policies. There was a strong case for the targeting of QE at specific sectors of the economy, such as green infrastructure. In retrospect, far too much faith was put in the banks to channel QE to where it was needed. Handing a cheque directly to members of the public would have got money into the economy much more effectively.
Central banks have always been wary of “helicopter money” on the grounds that QE is temporary while giving cash to the public is permanent. But the temporary has become permanent. What was once unconventional has now become conventional. So much so that even the European Central Bank is toying with the idea. Perish the thought, but imagine there is a second global financial crisis as bad as the first. Would policy makers look at alternatives to plain vanilla QE? Almost certainly, yes.
Some more information: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-29778331
The three laws of Kelonguni:
Where there is kelong, there is guni.
No kelong no guni.
More kelong = more guni.
Junior
Nvm one qe ends Japan expand another
Thanks everyone for the support! Find A Home Loan is Standard Chartered #1 broker in 2013.
Senior
US QE ended but Japan started again.
European Stocks Rally After Bank of Japan Boosts Stimulus
By Sofia Horta e Costa Oct 31, 2014 4:25 PM GMT+0800
European stocks rose, paring their biggest monthly loss since June 2013, amid optimism the Bank of Japan’s stimulus will fill some of the gap left by the end of Federal Reserve bond buying. U.S. index futures and Asian shares also rallied.
The Stoxx Europe 600 Index gained 1 percent to 334.13 at 8:13 a.m. in London. BNP Paribas (BNP) SA led lenders higher, as all 19 industry groups on the gauge climbed. The equity benchmark has lost 2.6 percent in October amid concern the European Central Bank’s asset purchases will not be enough to revive the region’s economy. With the Federal Reserve ending purchases this month, investors are turning to Europe and Japan for stimulus.
The Bank of Japan unexpectedly boosted its stimulus plan, raising its annual target for monetary expansion to 80 trillion yen ($721 billion), up from 60 to 70 trillion yen. An increase was predicted by just three of the 32 analysts surveyed by Bloomberg News. The central bank also said it will boost exchange-traded fund purchases to 3 trillion yen.
“Markets don’t really seem to care about what kind of stimulus we get or where it’s coming from, as long we get something,” said Teis Knuthsen, chief investment officer at Saxo Bank A/S’s private-banking unit. “Central banks are trying to squeeze money into the system and as long as economic growth is good enough, all that money will be going into financial assets. What happened in Japan is very powerful for equities, and it’s really rippling throughout global markets.”
Junior
On the contrary all are rank and file...
Scary that rank and file also hold so much liquidity...
Ultimate Underdog
Stimuli never end haha.
Let us continue to celebrate stock gains and later property gains!
The three laws of Kelonguni:
Where there is kelong, there is guni.
No kelong no guni.
More kelong = more guni.
Senior
When it come to property investment, it is the know and don't know that decide who buy and who don't.
Senior
I got the same impression of using "Others people money" OPM when I buy property until I find out how Bank create money.
"Others people money" OPM are basically a scam to tell the world how money work, the real facts is, it is created through thin air.
It is not easy to believe after all this years of brain washing that you deposit money in the Bank, the Bank than loan out the money.
Taiwan is a very good example of how money work right now.
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