Senior
Originally Posted by teddybear
Cannot show actual calculation with age 82??? can only use color fonts to say its facts??? I also know leh?
I QUAD CONFIRM YOU ARE A BLOODY FAKE SHIT TRUMP UP TRICLE DOWN BULLSHITTER!
IF YOU READ THIS MEAN YOU AGREE COZZ ITS IN BLUE!!!!
WAT A TALK COCK SING COCK SONGER... I ASK YOU FOR THE AGE YOU CAN MOVE FROM 78 to 80 to 82. ASK YOU TO SHOW THE MATHS ALL YOU DO IS MAKE COLOR FONTS!????
SHOW US LEH!!! DONT HIDE THE BULL SHIT!
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
― Martin Luther King, Jr.
OUT WITH THE SHIT TRASH
https://www.facebook.com/shutdowntrs
Global recession is coming....
Who will bother to explain to a BLOODY STUPID IDIOT with such LOW IQ that CANNOT READ???????
Luckily the person is just a minority here.........
Senior
So you agree with me you are bloody bullshitter and prata flipper
coz its blue mah it have to bet true coz its in BLUE Mah. Like u say right....!
FACT CHECK YOU CANNOT EXPLAIN??? RESORT TO COLOR BULLSHIT?? ?WOW!!!
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
― Martin Luther King, Jr.
OUT WITH THE SHIT TRASH
https://www.facebook.com/shutdowntrs
Global recession is coming....
minority,
Say what you want, up to you!
Anyway, my aim has been achieved: That is, to reveal the HARD-TRUTH to all, show them the FACTs, tell them how to calculate CPF Life's return for themselves, let them know who are the LIARs, the BULLSHITTERS, and those telling HALF-TRUTH like CPF Life paying you 4% p.a. (as though LIKE REAL!)..............
And what is HALF-TRUTH?
Do you think these people sum it up well?
http://i.quoteaddicts.com/media/q4/292491.png
(Wow! Benjamin Franklin borned in 1706 already knew HALF-TRUTH very well!)
http://quotes.lifehack.org/media/quo...truth-1376.png
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...272c6eb852.jpg
https://openclipart.org/download/218...-Whole-Lie.svg
That very much sums up what you have been bullshitting..............
Last edited by teddybear; 26-01-17 at 21:29.
Senior
minority,
Say what you want, up to you!
Anyway, my aim has been achieved: That is, to reveal the HARD-TRUTH to all, show them the FACTs, tell them how to calculate CPF Life's return for themselves, let them know who are the LIARs, the BULLSHITTERS, and those telling HALF-TRUTH like CPF Life paying you 4% p.a. (as though LIKE REAL!)..............
And what is HALF-TRUTH?
Do you think these people sum it up well?
http://i.quoteaddicts.com/media/q4/292491.png
(Wow! Benjamin Franklin borned in 1706 already knew HALF-TRUTH very well!)
http://quotes.lifehack.org/media/quo...truth-1376.png
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...272c6eb852.jpg
https://openclipart.org/download/218...-Whole-Lie.svg
That very much sums up what you have been bullshitting..............
Right!... Age moved from 78 , to 80 to 82 after being challenged and FACT Checked! Even after that asked to show the caculation how the bloody hell derived the so call FACTS shit. All you can do is give one liner color fonts and links to your one liner FACTs..
Show us the maths! dont run leh...
You agree you are bullshitting right! Coz this is in blue n red fonts!!! Coz who donno how to make color fonts..????
I challenge you again to show proof!
1. Where is the % CPF LIFE SAY will pay out
2. SHOW US THE MATHS YOUR UR CLAIM BASE ON 82 Yrs Avg life expectancy of Male Singaporean.
SHOW US!
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
― Martin Luther King, Jr.
OUT WITH THE SHIT TRASH
https://www.facebook.com/shutdowntrs
Global recession is coming....
minority,
you saying "Where is the % CPF LIFE SAY will pay out"?
Wow!
Didn't you say 4%? Now you want to prata flip flop???
If you didn't claim CPF Life's return to be 4%, then SHOW US WHAT IS THE CPF Life's return!!!
Already ask you like 10th TIME ALREADY to show us the calculation of CPF Life's return being = 4% (or any figure you can claim) but YOU still CAN'T SHOW and STILL AVOIDING MY THIS QUESTION???
minority,
Say what you want, up to you!
Anyway, my aim has been achieved: That is, to reveal the HARD-TRUTH to all, show them the FACTs, tell them how to calculate CPF Life's return for themselves, let them know who are the LIARs, the BULLSHITTERS, and those telling HALF-TRUTH like CPF Life paying you 4% p.a. (as though LIKE REAL!)..............
And what is HALF-TRUTH?
Do you think these people sum it up well?
http://i.quoteaddicts.com/media/q4/292491.png
(Wow! Benjamin Franklin borned in 1706 already knew HALF-TRUTH very well!)
http://quotes.lifehack.org/media/quo...truth-1376.png
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...272c6eb852.jpg
https://openclipart.org/download/218...-Whole-Lie.svg
That very much sums up what you have been bullshitting..............
Senior
minority,
you saying "Where is the % CPF LIFE SAY will pay out"?
Wow!
Didn't you say 4%? Now you want to prata flip flop???
If you didn't claim CPF Life's return to be 4%, then SHOW US WHAT IS THE CPF Life's return!!!
Already ask you like 10th TIME ALREADY to show us the calculation of CPF Life's return being = 4% (or any figure you can claim) but YOU still CAN'T SHOW and STILL AVOIDING MY THIS QUESTION???
Common show the proof leh??? WHere is the maths???? Where is the CPF LIFE WHO SAY THEY PAY 4%??? DONT LIE LEH... its CNY LEH...
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
― Martin Luther King, Jr.
OUT WITH THE SHIT TRASH
https://www.facebook.com/shutdowntrs
Global recession is coming....
More independent calculations by others, which tally with my calculations that if a male can only live till 80 years old, you LOSE MONEY BIG BIG under CPF Life!
Why so?
Please read article in below link..............
Male has to live beyond age 90 to be better off under CPF Life Standard Plan
I used the CPF Life Payout Estimator on 14 January 2017 with a male date of birth of 12 January 1962 (age 55) and $166,000 in the Retirement Account – the results for the Life Standard Plan – monthly payout from age 65 is $1,289 – $1,420 – Bequest at age 65 ($239,344 – $249,632), age 75 ($79,172 – $84,572) and age 85 ($0).
After withdrawing $1,355 ($1,289 + $1,420 divided by 2) monthly until age 75, the account balance is estimated to be about $178,000.
Worse off by $96,128 at age 75?
So, does it mean that if one dies at age 75, he would in a sense, have lost about $96,128 ($178,000 – $81,872 ($79,172 + $84,572 divided by 2) bequest)?
After withdrawing $1,355 monthly until age 85, the account balance is estimated to be $74,325.
Worse off by $74,325 at age 85?
So, does it mean that if one dies at age 85, he would in a sense, have lost about $74,325 ($74,325 – $0 bequest).
By the way, what is the bequest at age 80?
The account is estimated to become $0, after about 25 years, or after about 90 years old.
Live beyond age 90 to be better off?
In other words, does it arguably, mean that one has to live beyond age 90, in order to be better off under the CPF Life Standard Plan, compared to just making monthly withdrawals from one’s Retirement account, until the money runs out.
Of course this option to make monthly withdrawals until the money runs out (the former CPF Minimum Sum scheme withdrawal) is no longer available with CPF Life being mandatory now.
What is the probability that a male will live beyond age 90?
Female has to live beyond age 93 to be better off
Similarly, if you are a female, your estimated monthly life annuity is lower at about $1,262 – and correspondingly, does it mean that you may have to live beyond age 93 in order to be better off
So, what’s the probability of a female living beyond age 93?
Last edited by teddybear; 07-02-17 at 20:33.
Senior
And who you quote LZH THE BLOODY LOOSER!!!! Looser attract Loosers!!!!!! make some fake assumption so age look like 90-93 then cry WOLF! Coz its Bloody looser trying to KPKB!
HERE EAT THIS!
http://dollarsandsense.sg/is-the-cpf...ally-that-bad/
The CPF Lifelong Income For the Elderly (CPF LIFE) Scheme and the Minimum Sum (MS) comes as a retirement package made compulsory for Singaporeans.
DollarsAndSense.sg evaluates this scheme from two different perspectives:
Pension
Investment
Assumptions:
1) Drawdown age remains at 65 years old
2) Payout remains at S$1,200
3) Current interest rates of CPF will remain unchanged
4) The minimum sum of S$155,000 is attained at age 55 years old
5) Life expectancy based on World Bank is at 82.1 years old
6) Ten year average inflation based on World Bank at 2.73%
Results:
1) The amount accumulated at age 65 is approximately S$216,000
2) The effective interest rate is 3.32% per year
3) It takes 21 years and 4 months to completely wipe out the S$216,000
4) There will still be S$67,100 in the CPF, when an individual survives until 82.1 years old
AS A PENSION:
1) The drawdown will last way past the average life expectancy
Even if CPF LIFE does not pay perpetuity, it will last until age 86 (65yrs+21yrs 4mns) years old. This means that as a pension fund, it has provisioned for the potential increment of life expectancy and continuously providing at a constant S$1,200/month to allow the individual to make long-term personal financial planning.
2) You will have a sizable sum left over for your beneficiaries
If an individual were to meet the life expectancy of 82.1 years old, there would still be a sum of S$67,100 bequeathed to their children or beneficiaries.
The prowess of the compounding effect allows individual to continuously earn interest rates throughout these years on the initial S$155,000. This explains why they can have such a sizable amount even at age 82.1 years old for their beneficiaries.
Definitely, if the individual lives way pass 86 years old, he/she should not expect any amount bequeathed to their beneficiaries due to the simple fact that they have exhausted the money in their CPF accounts.
3) Perpetuity!
CPF LIFE provides a monthly payout starting from your drawdown age (65 years old) for as long as you live. Our government has finally provided a loophole for us to “take advantage” of them. Live as long as possible to continuously receive that S$1,200 −FOREVER!
Conclusion as a Pension
The CPF Board has taken upon its shoulders to pay a relatively fixed amount per month for as long as the individual lives. It provides a constant cash flow and allows for appropriate personal finance management. This is equivalent to purchasing a perpetual bond that pays a monthly fixed amount. The advantage: Our Aaa rated government guarantees this.
AS AN INVESTMENT:
(For the more finance-savvy people)
A) The Net Present Value of CPF LIFE is S$10,000 (if perpetuity is excluded)
Future Value (Age 65): S$215,994
Periods: 10 years
Discount rate: 2.73%
Present value: S$165,002
Initial investment: S$155,000
Net present value (NPV): S$10,002
The discount rate should reflect a few factors (inflation, credit risk, liquidity risk, maturity risk, risk-free rate, etc.). However, to keep things simple we will peg it to the inflation rate due to the fact that other risks are not significant with respect to CPF LIFE anyway.
We took the 10-year average inflation rate, from 2003 to 2013, as an input. This provides a NPV of S$10,002.
B) The Net Present Value of CPF LIFE is over S$372,000 (if perpetuity is included)
Perpetual monthly payout: S$1,200
Perpetual annual payout: S$14,400
Discount rate: 2.73%
Present value: S$527,473
Initial Investment: S$155,000
Net present value (NPV): S$372,473
The 10, 20 and 30-year average inflation rates are 2.73%, 1.89% and 1.84% respectively. We took the most conservative inflation rate of 2.73% as the discount rate.
CPF LIFE would yield a net present value of S$372,473!
C) CPF LIFE > comparable securities!
Table 1
Length of SGS Bond 10-Year 15-Year 20-Year 30-Year
Coupon Rate 3.000% 2.875% 3.375% 2.750%
Yield at
2-Jan-15 2.33% 2.66% 2.83% 2.93%
5-Jan-15 2.31% 2.65% 2.79% 2.89%
6-Jan-15 2.25% 2.56% 2.72% 2.81%
7-Jan-15 2.16% 2.46% 2.62% 2.70%
8-Jan-15 2.17% 2.48% 2.62% 2.70%
9-Jan-15 2.17% 2.44% 2.57% 2.65%
Average yield 2.23% 2.54% 2.69% 2.78%
(Source: Monetary Authority of Singapore)
Table 1 shows comparable securities with CPF LIFE. The average yield range from 2.23% to 2.78% per annum for the 10-30 year Singapore Government Securities while the effective interest rate for CPF LIFE is 3.32% per year.
Furthermore, CPF LIFE provides for liquidity because they will provide a monthly payout. This reduces the duration and convexity risk inherent in all fixed income securities.
Conclusion as an Investment
We cannot reject the CPF LIFE “project”. However, the consolation is that CPF LIFE provides a high NPV of S$372,473. When compared to similar securities, the pension outrightly overshadows them with a much higher effective interest rate. To top it all off, CPF LIFE provides for monthly payouts as well.
In a nutshell
The government is not going to be responsible for our daily expenses and personal finance planning. There are over 5.4 million people in Singapore and 3+ million Singapore residents, so do not expect them to “babysit” us when we get older.
CPF LIFE should not be your ONLY retirement plan. You should always have multiple sources of income streams and always reduce your expenses from wants to needs. Having said that, do remember to pamper yourself once in a while!
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
― Martin Luther King, Jr.
OUT WITH THE SHIT TRASH
https://www.facebook.com/shutdowntrs
Senior
Here's why I think Singapore CPF Life is awesome
BY ROY WALKER
If you read the Singapore newspapers or follow social media, you won’t have missed the ongoing controversy about the merits or otherwise of the Central Provident Fund (CPF) scheme. The CPF attempts to serve many objectives, but in this article I will look at just one – the provision of a guaranteed income in retirement.
First some statistics. According to the annual HSBC survey ('The Future of Retirement'), four out of five Singaporeans are afraid of running out of money and not having enough to live on day to day1. And on average, people expect to live 17 years in retirement, but their savings to run out in nine years2.
Traditionally, if you are worried about running out of money in retirement, the standard solution is an annuity. An annuity is not an investment product, it is a 'risk management' product – an insurance against living a long life.
The simplest form of annuity pays you a fixed monthly income for life, in return for a lump sum premium payment to the provider. The payout rate – the percentage of your premium paid to you annually – will depend chiefly on life expectancy statistics and the returns available from the bond market. If life expectancies rise, or bond yields fall, then annuity rates fall too.
For a basic annuity, no further payouts are made when you die. That means if you pass away in early retirement, then your annuity has destroyed capital (i.e. nothing is left to pass on to the next generation). However, if you live a long time, your annuity can be very good value – ensuring an income well beyond what your retirement pot could have provided if kept as cash.
The Singapore CPF Life scheme is a kind of annuity funded by your CPF. In general terms, at age 55 a portion of your CPF fund is set aside to provide a monthly income that commences at age 65 (or later if you choose, in return for higher payouts).
Being a long-time Singapore Permanent Resident, UK national, and 50-year-old financial adviser, I thought I'd use my own situation to compare the Singapore CPF Life scheme with the prevailing system in the UK. Several aspects of the Singapore CPF scheme (and incidentally also the Hong Kong MPF) have been modelled on the UK pension system, so the comparison is relevant.
Tax-efficient money going into your pension pot
Compulsory contributions to CPF relating to employment in Singapore are not taxable. Your employer's contribution to your CPF is a tax-free payment. So for instance if your marginal tax rate is 15%, then you are 'saving' $150 extra for every $1,000 going into your CPF. This is a similar situation to the UK (ignoring the mechanics of the tax system).
In my case, because of the way the financial advisory industry is regulated in Singapore, I am considered self-employed and have no compulsory CPF contributions except for Medisave. I am allowed to make voluntary contributions to my Ordinary and Special Accounts (up to a limit). And I have chosen to do so. Why? Well, in the same way as above, voluntary CPF contributions for the self-employed are tax-efficient – such contributions reduce my tax bill at my marginal rate. But there is much more that persuades me to save into my CPF; read on.
How does the Singapore CPF Life payout rate compare with UK annuities?
Let's start by looking at the best UK annuity rates available in the market right now. As at 11 November 2016, the Financial Times reports that a lump sum of £100,000 would buy an annual annuity income of £4,8273, at a fixed level and with no guarantees or further payouts after death. (The figure is the same for men and women, because a European ruling prevents discrimination by gender.)
This is a payout rate of about 4.8%. But, if I die early, then the £100,000 is gone and nothing remains to pass on to my children. Furthermore, if I have bought the annuity using my UK pension assets, then the income is taxable at my marginal rate (less allowances). If I have other sources of income in retirement, then very likely I will end up paying tax on my annuity. For example, a retired person in UK who has used up his personal allowance would pay 20% tax (basic rate) on his annuity income – i.e. a net payout rate of just over 3.8%.
Let's now look at the Singapore CPF Life
In their document 'CPF Retirement Booklet'4, the CPF administration gives the following example, for a man aged 55 today and setting aside the Basic Retirement Sum of SG$80,500.
Set aside today: $80,500
Value of set aside after 10 years' growth: $125,000 (a growth rate of around 4.5% p.a.)
Monthly payout for life commencing age 65: $660-720
If we use the lowest monthly income figure of $660, that’s $7,920 per annum; i.e. a payout rate of 6.3%. That’s 1.5% better than the equivalent figure for the best available annuity in the UK (4.8%), or about 2.5% better if UK basic rate tax is due. The CPF Life payout rate is also as good or better than rates across numerous other countries including Australia, Netherlands, USA, and Canada.
Furthermore, Singapore CPF Life payouts are not taxable, which is an important difference when comparing with other nations where retirement annuity income is not tax-exempt.
Singapore CPF Life is not for profit
Refer back to my description of an annuity as a kind of insurance against a long life. On an individual case-by-case basis, sometimes the provider makes a profit (early death) and sometimes not (a very long life in retirement). But overall the provider must make a commercially viable margin on annuity business.
CPF Life is different because it is state-provided and not a commercial enterprise. So, if you die early, then what happens to your CPF money set aside for your CPF Life scheme? It is yours to bequest to your family as you choose.
Moreover, whilst you are taking your monthly retirement income, your CPF Life fund is growing at a rate that's guaranteed by the Singapore government – currently 4% base, with an extra 1% for the first $60,000, and an additional extra 1% for the first $30,000. We’re talking about a guaranteed return from a state with a AAA credit rating. In today’s world this is a very good deal, and especially so since security and certainty of returns is so important in retirement.
Therefore, we realise that in fact the CPF is not the same as a typical retirement annuity. In addition to the element of insurance (guaranteed income for as long as you live, at a better than 6% payout rate), CPF Life can be seen as an investment product with a guaranteed return (better than 4%), with proceeds going to your heirs in event of your early demise.
It is interesting to see how the adoption of CPF Life is impacting the open market for annuities in Singapore. The Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) reports that in 2015 there were 68,835 individual private annuity policies in force, down from 71,408 in 2013. There were just 349 policies sold in 2015, down from 2,186 sold in 2010 and 5,144 sold in 20005.
What else could I be doing with my CPF money if they returned it?
When planning for retirement, financial advisers seek to create a sustainable income from invested funds. We do this by reference to a theoretical maximum withdrawal rate from our pension pot, to ensure we do not outlive our funds in retirement. The recommended figure is around 4%, or up to 5% depending on circumstances.
In comparison, the CPF Life guaranteed rate of 6%+ looks attractive. The only consideration is that a long life means the purchasing power of a fixed income is eroded over time by inflation. This is the reason why a newly proposed option for CPF Life is to accept an initially lower payout rate, for an income that rises annually by 2%. Anyway, I’ll make that decision in a few years when I need to!
Conclusion
To close my discussion, I won't involve myself in the political argument as to whether CPF overall is 'good' or 'bad'. I have looked only at CPF Life, and in the light of my own situation and retirement intentions. The facts show that the CPF Life scheme compares extremely favourably with annuity products available in other developed countries such as UK. As a tax-efficient source of guaranteed retirement income, coupled with guaranteed returns from a AAA-rated provider, CPF Life absolutely deserves a place in my retirement portfolio.
- See more at: http://sbr.com.sg/financial-services....Spb0VE8Q.dpuf
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
― Martin Luther King, Jr.
OUT WITH THE SHIT TRASH
https://www.facebook.com/shutdowntrs
Ultimate Underdog
Thanks for sharing. I will keep some CPF as well, at least the average amount. That plus regular property rental income should be quite a nice combi.
The three laws of Kelonguni:
Where there is kelong, there is guni.
No kelong no guni.
More kelong = more guni.
Newbie
Thumbs up!
Global recession is coming....
minority,
Wow! More falsehoods and half-truths from you again, quoting those people who failed their Math or trying to propagandizing half-truths and lies....
Let me just tear through your falsehoods and LIES and half-truths with HARD-TRUTH MATHEMATICS that cannot be faked (and not empty numbers with nothing to back up as told by these people)...
Assumptions: ( Exactly same as http://dollarsandsense.sg/is-the-cpf...ally-that-bad/ )
1) Drawdown age remains at 65 years old
2) Payout remains at S$1,200
3) Current interest rates of CPF will remain unchanged
4) The minimum sum of S$155,000 is attained at age 55 years old
5) Life expectancy based on World Bank is at 82.1 years old
6) Ten year average inflation based on World Bank at 2.73%
FALSE results/conclusions from http://dollarsandsense.sg/is-the-cpf...ally-that-bad/ )
Results:
1) The amount accumulated at age 65 is approximately S$216,000
2) The effective interest rate is 3.32% per year
3) It takes 21 years and 4 months to completely wipe out the S$216,000
4) There will still be S$67,100 in the CPF, when an individual survives until 82.1 years old
- Don't know whether this person failed his MATH or he is trying to lie???
REAL HARD-TRUTH RESULTS (from me, BACKED UP BY FACTS and REAL MATH!!!...):
Results:
1) If a MALE has S$155,000 in CPF Retirement Account at age 55 years old, The amount accumulated at age 65 is ACTULLY approximately = $242,000 (NOT $216,000!)
(based on 4% interest paid by CPF, with an extra 1% for the first $60,000, and an additional extra 1% for the first $30,000).
2) The effective interest rate DEPENDS ON HOW OLD YOU CAN LIVE!
3) How many years and months it takes to completely wipe out your amount of $242,000 depends on how much interest CPF Life is actually paying you (other than the known payout amount per month)!!! So you just need to know what is the interest/return you are getting from CPF Life to a certain age and you will know whether you are getting the raw end of the stick!!
4) CPF Life states that BEQUEST is ZERO when a MALE hits 85 years old!!
CPF Life states that BEQUEST is about $40,000 when a MALE hits 75 years old!!!
CPF Life never says what is the BEQUEST for a MALE at 82.1 years old, so how does that author obtain "There will still be S$67,100 in the CPF, when an individual survives until 82.1 years old"???
Is he trying to inflat the real figure for BEQUEST to make you all feel good???
Anyway, FACT is, CPF Life document states that BEQUEST is about $40,000 when a MALE hits 75 years old, and hence there is NO WAY that BEQUEST can increase and become $67,100 when a MALE hits 82 years old (as CLAIMED by this author!)
5) So what is the REAL effective interest rate if you can live till 82 years old? (ok ok, I use 82 to make minority happy and don't keep arguing on the age number, those REALLY, on average about 50% of 1960s born cohort would have died by 65 years old!)
Amount at age 55 = $155,000
Amount at age 65 = $242,000
Payout per month = S$1,200
Assume age you live till = 82
REAL CPF LIFE RETURN = 0.13% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YES, THAT IS TRUE, "0.13%"!
(How do I get the "0.13%"? Use online calculator!)
So, if you can live till 82 years old, CPF LIFE only pays you an INTEREST = 0.13% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HO HO HO, LIES, FALSEHOODS exposed within HALF-TRUTHS!!!!!
********** CONCLUSION: **********
This guy's statements contains FALSEHOODS mixed in HALF-TRUTHs!!!
So, either this guy at dollarsandsense.sg FAILED his MATH and is misleading people with his article or he is outright LYING through his TEETH!!!
Last edited by teddybear; 09-02-17 at 19:17.
Global recession is coming....
minority,
Wow! MORE OF FALSEHOODS and HALF-TRUTHS masqueraded as WHOLE-TRUTH from you again, quoting those people who failed their Math or propagandizing HALF-TRUTH and LIES....
Let me just tear through your falsehoods and half-truths with HARD-TRUTH MATHEMATICS that cannot be faked (and not empty numbers with nothing to back up as told by these people)...
Let's summarize what this person claimed first:
(1) best UK annuity rates available in the market right now:
As at 11 November 2016, the Financial Times reports that a lump sum of £100,000 would buy an annual annuity income of £4,8273, at a fixed level and with no guarantees or further payouts after death. (The figure is the same for men and women, because a European ruling prevents discrimination by gender.)
This is a payout rate of about 4.8%. But, if I die early, then the £100,000 is gone and nothing remains to pass on to my children. Furthermore, if I have bought the annuity using my UK pension assets, then the income is taxable at my marginal rate (less allowances). If I have other sources of income in retirement, then very likely I will end up paying tax on my annuity. For example, a retired person in UK who has used up his personal allowance would pay 20% tax (basic rate) on his annuity income – i.e. a net payout rate of just over 3.8%.
(2) Let's now look at the Singapore CPF Life:
In their document 'CPF Retirement Booklet'4, the CPF administration gives the following example, for a man aged 55 today and setting aside the Basic Retirement Sum of SG$80,500.
Set aside today: $80,500
Value of set aside after 10 years' growth: $125,000 (a growth rate of around 4.5% p.a.)
Monthly payout for life commencing age 65: $660-720
If we use the lowest monthly income figure of $660, that’s $7,920 per annum; i.e. a payout rate of 6.3%. That’s 1.5% better than the equivalent figure for the best available annuity in the UK (4.8%), or about 2.5% better if UK basic rate tax is due. The CPF Life payout rate is also as good or better than rates across numerous other countries including Australia, Netherlands, USA, and Canada.
(3) Moreover, whilst you are taking your monthly retirement income, your CPF Life fund is growing at a rate that's guaranteed by the Singapore government – currently 4% base, with an extra 1% for the first $60,000, and an additional extra 1% for the first $30,000. We’re talking about a guaranteed return from a state with a AAA credit rating. In today’s world this is a very good deal, and especially so since security and certainty of returns is so important in retirement.
Therefore, we realise that in fact the CPF is not the same as a typical retirement annuity. In addition to the element of insurance (guaranteed income for as long as you live, at a better than 6% payout rate), CPF Life can be seen as an investment product with a guaranteed return (better than 4%), with proceeds going to your heirs in event of your early demise.
(4) In comparison, the CPF Life guaranteed rate of 6%+ looks attractive.
Now, let's get down to finding the FALSEHOODS and HALF-TRUTHS in all his STATEMENTS!!!:
(1) This guy claimed that "best UK annuity rates available... is a payout rate of about 4.8%"
Ok, I have no comment since I have no idea about their payout rate but hei, 4.8% is definitely MUCH HIGHER than CPF Life! (I will show what is the REAL CPF Life's return later!)
(2) This is the one on Singapore CPF Life!
Let's analyse it!
This is what he claimed:
(a) for a man aged 55 today and setting aside the Basic Retirement Sum of SG$80,500.
(b) Value of set aside after 10 years' growth: $125,000 (a growth rate of around 4.5% p.a.)
(c) Monthly payout for life commencing age 65: $660-720
(d) If we use the lowest monthly income figure of $660, that’s $7,920 per annum; i.e. a payout rate of 6.3%. That’s 1.5% better than the equivalent figure for the best available annuity in the UK (4.8%), or about 2.5% better if UK basic rate tax is due. The CPF Life payout rate is also as good or better than rates across numerous other countries including Australia, Netherlands, USA, and Canada.
According to (d) above, this guy claimed that CPF Life payout is "6.3%"!!!
Ok, let's get down to the math!!!
Amount at age 55 = $80,500
Amount at age 65 = $125,700 (based on CPF retirement account interest rate)
Monthly payout for life commencing at age 65 = 660 (using the SAME figure that this guy used to claim that "CPF Life payout is 6.3%"!).
Now, assuming that you can live till 82 years old, your REAL HARD-TRUTH CPF LIFE's RETURN = 0.28% !!!
(How do I get the "0.28%"? Use online calculator!)
Holy shit!
This guy claimed that CPF Life payout is "6.3%"!!!
BUT THE TRUTH IS, the REAL CPF LIFE's RETURN if you live till 82 years old is ONLY = 0.28% !!!!!!!!!!!!!
YES, your CPF LIFE's return if you live till 82 years old is ONLY = 0.28% !!!
So, either this guy FAILED his MATH or he is outright LYING through his TEETH!!!
(3) & (4) Again, this guy KEEP REPEATEDLY CLAIMING that "CPF Life guaranteed rate" is MORE THAN 6%!!!
Wow! This is a BIG FAT FALSEHOOD / LIE which I had already shown above in (2)!!!
WOW!!!!!!!! Found so many FALSEHOODS and LIES within HALF-TRUTHS in this article posted here by minority (and the 2nd one I exposed here!)!!!
minority, you must have been purposely choosing those articles that contain FALSEHOODS / LIES within HALF-TRUTHS to re-post here to mislead kelonguni, Ilikeu, and the rest right?!
Got you!!! Hip hip hooray!
********** CONCLUSION: **********
This guy's statements contains FALSEHOODS mixed in HALF-TRUTHs!!!
So, either this guy FAILED his MATH and is misleading people with his article or he is outright LYING through his TEETH!!!
Wow! Really worry indeed! Since he is a financial advisor and he can get his MATH totally wrong, won't he be advising his clients on investing in wrong investment products because he is calculating WRONG RETURNS etc???
What is the REAL DEFINITION OF HALF-TRUTHS???
You can see for yourself here: Do you think these people sum it up well?
http://i.quoteaddicts.com/media/q4/292491.png
(Wow! Benjamin Franklin borned in 1706 already knew HALF-TRUTH very well!)
http://quotes.lifehack.org/media/quo...truth-1376.png
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...272c6eb852.jpg
https://openclipart.org/download/218...-Whole-Lie.svg
minority,
That very much sums up what you have been LYING about..............
Global recession is coming....
You "Thumbs up!" to minority for spreading LIES, FALSEHOODS embedded in HALF-TRUTHS???
Newbie
Either you are ignorant or a troll or both.
I have no time to educate you.
Go and set up your own spreadsheet, work it out and post it to CPF facebook, and let the CPF guys educate you on your understanding on CPF Life and/or your financial skills.
You "Thumbs up!" to minority for spreading LIES, FALSEHOODS embedded in HALF-TRUTHS???
Global recession is coming....
Wow!
Looks like you can't read and understand all the FACTs and Maths I have posted here and you asking me to ask CPF guys who can't even give a straight reply as to what is the CPF Life's interest they are paying??? And you still won't agree? Why not you try asking them to give an honest and straight reply to the question:
"What is the INTEREST RATE that CPF is paying for you money in CPF Life after age 65 years old?"
(and see whether you will get the answer)?
If they refuse to reply to above question, try asking them this question:
"What will be my CPF Life's return if I am a MALE and can live till 82 years old?"
(I am sure THEY WILL NEVER EVER ANSWER YOUR THIS QUESTION!!!)
So I won't be wrong to say that your Financial skills sucks?
Last edited by teddybear; 09-02-17 at 21:12.
Newbie
Can you print screen your question and the reply from CPF, and share it here.
And also, pls set up an excel and show it here.
Senior
'This is a dignified end before I have to start scrounging food from the trash': Desperate man, 77, shoots himself dead outside Greek parliament during rush hour
After becoming desperate at his financial plight, the Greek pensioner is said to have put a handgun to his head in the busy central Athens square before declaring, 'So I won't leave debts for my children', and pulling the trigger.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4YCITrpWL
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Newbie
By you asking this question, it shows your ignorance in financial skills.
You do not need that info to calculate your IRR in CPF life.
Wow!
"What is the INTEREST RATE that CPF is paying for you money in CPF Life after age 65 years old?" [/COLOR][/U][/B]
(and see whether you will get the answer)?
So I won't be wrong to say that your Financial skills sucks?
Global recession is coming....
Since you are questioning my calculations, why not you go ask CPF about why I claimed a MALE only get CPF Life's return of 0.13% if he can only live to 82 years old and ask them to provide EXCEL spreadsheet and show their calculations to REFUTE MY CLAIM?
I will be more than HAPPY for you and CPF to prove me wrong with demonstrated EXCEL spreadsheet calculations (or even some ONLINE CALCULATOR to prove it is GOOD for me)!
Global recession is coming....
Oh really?
So can you show your calculation with IRR to REFUTE my CLAIM?
Please do, SHOW, don't just give EMPTY TALK!
Newbie
By you challenging me again, it really confirm you are ignorant on working out IRR.
That is fine that I'm EMPTY TALK to you (only).
Global recession is coming....
Wow!
You indeed can twist and turn (just like minority), throw a term "IRR" to claim that I am wrong about my calculation and then when challenged to show your calculations to prove why I am wrong, you can then turn around to claim that that really confirm I am ignorant on working out IRR?
Ha ha ha!
You and minority can only make EMPTY TALK to CLAIM people are WRONG etc but when asked to SHOW FACTS, you will CLAIM the other can't show they are wrong so that means they are WRONG???
- You both really know how to twist and turn!
Looks like you are good buddy of minority!
You think only I think you are EMPTY TALKER?
Lots of people here are looking at the FACTs, they are NOT STUPID to KNOW WHO are the EMPTY TALKER and the LIAR!
There is NO NEED to just do EMPTY CLAIM as though YOU THINK SO MANY PEOPLE here are so DAMN STUPID...
Newbie
I am nobody buddy.
I didnt "THINK SO MANY PEOPLE here are so DAMN STUPID" including you.
You are not "DAMN STUPID"... just ignorant in this and not all other matters.
Wow!
You indeed can twist and turn (just like minority), throw a term "IRR" to claim that I am wrong about my calculation and then when challenged to show your calculations to prove why I am wrong, you can then turn around to claim that that really confirm I am ignorant on working out IRR?
Ha ha ha!
You and minority can only make EMPTY TALK to CLAIM people are WRONG etc but when asked to SHOW FACTS, you will CLAIM the other can't show they are wrong so that means they are WRONG???
- You both really know how to twist and turn!
Looks like you are good buddy of minority!
You think only I think you are EMPTY TALKER?
Lots of people here are looking at the FACTs, they are NOT STUPID to KNOW WHO are the EMPTY TALKER and the LIAR!
There is NO NEED to just do EMPTY CLAIM as though YOU THINK SO MANY PEOPLE here are so DAMN STUPID...
Global recession is coming....
Ignorant enough to be telling the TRUTH about CPF Life so that both you and minority so work out?
Ha Ha ha! Ok ok, I am "ignorant" enough to be able to show the REAL CPF Life's return is 0.13% only if a MALE can only live till 82 years old, and THIS is the WHOLE-TRUTH, backed up with FACTs and MATH calculations!
Those who cannot even understand these despite all the FACTS and MATH CALCULATIONS shown is NOT JUST IGNORANT, they are either DAMN STUPID or they are probably LYING through their teeth........
Newbie
Cool down. It is ok to continue believing that you know everything about CPF Life and your own financial skills.
Global recession is coming....
Next time before you start labeling people as STUPID or IGNORANT or something else, please BACK UP with FACTs first, don't just continue your such usual ruse like below (just like minority). People here are NOT STUPID to look through your ruse, and the more a person tries to twist and turn, the more it shows the person's lack of integrity (like minority)..........
Newbie
Thanks for the advice.
You are a troll who does not deserve my time to educate you.
If others like kelonguni who does not troll, pm me and i am more than happy to share with him.
Global recession is coming....
My posts here are meant to raise awareness of people who want to learn and know the TRUTH, nothing but the WHOLE-TRUTH about the returns of CPF Life. I won't even say "educate"...
Do I need you to educate me about CPF Life?
Nah!
Think you are very thick skin to say you are trying to educate me when you cannot back up what you CLAIMED with FACTs and calculations... As usual, those kind of ruse, which shows what kind of character you have (like minority)........
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