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Thread: Any Ceiling for contribution of CPF OA?

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584 View Post
    Considerations on How To Manage Your CPF Money when young - Purchase Properties (HDB or private) with CPF money
    =============================================================================================
    If u are temporary Ignorant about CPF snowball compounding interest of 4-5% when very young is not a problem . The real problem is most people remains ignorant for
    really very long time until it is too late (>age 50) . The worst is that his ignorant about CPF snowball compounding interest of 4-5% continue to his grown up children which
    they also dont bother about it.


    Let say for whatever reason you still want to use CPF OA for housing even though you have the financial capablilty to use CASH. Or maybe you prefer to CPF-OA (35% ) to invest
    into a higher risk higher return investment as 2.5% seem to be very very easy to BEAT. But not many CPF investors are able to beat 2.5%.


    Let say at age 35. Both of you (Husband /wife) have a combine CPF-OA (2.5-3.5%) of $200k. Maybe CPF-SA (4-5%) est 35k each.
    HDB housing loan 300k @2.6%. So monthly payment using CPF-OA est $1360.


    1. How you manage your transfer of your CPF-OA to CPF-SA.
    Leave $33k (2 yrs loan amt ) of your combine CPF-OA for your HDB housing loan . The rest consider transfer the balance from
    CPF-OA to CPF-SA to meet the full retirement sum (now 161k) as young as possible.



    2. Or leave $66k ( 4 yrs loan amt) or your combine CPF-OA for your housing loan. The rest consider transfer the bal from
    CPF-OA to CPF-SA to meet the full retirement sum (now 161k) as young as possible.



    You can do the same as your private ppty at your comfort level. If you dont have a plan to prepare for your retirement & you screw it up when young.
    You are likely to plan to fail.

    ANZ latest promtion Fixed D for 8 mtths tenor is 1.15%.

    I would rather voluntary cash (VC) contribution into my CPF acct earning 2.5% to 4%. I still can use my CPF-OA for my housing loan if need arise.

    If you have met your Medisave acct ceiling (49.8k) & SA ceiling (161k) & your age is 46-50.
    If your VC $3k/mth or $37.7k/yr into your CPF acct. It will split only CPF SA (21.6% of 3k or 21.6% of $37.7k) ) & CPF OA (78.4% of 3k or $37.7k).
    If I will to buy a new ppty. I still can use my CPF-OA for my housing loan .

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    http://investmentmoats.com/uncategor...inary-account/
    6 Reasons not to Voluntary Top Up your CPF Special Account with Cash or CPF Ordinary Account

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584 View Post
    If I will to buy a new ppty. I still can use my CPF-OA for my housing loan .

    Have you read the fine prints?
    https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Assets/employ...ORM_RSSTPC.pdf

    Cannot be used to buy property or investment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584 View Post
    ANZ latest promtion Fixed D for 8 mtths tenor is 1.15%.

    I would rather voluntary cash (VC) contribution into my CPF acct earning 2.5% to 4%. I still can use my CPF-OA for my housing loan if need arise.

    If you have met your Medisave acct ceiling (49.8k) & SA ceiling (161k) & your age is 46-50.
    If your VC $3k/mth or $37.7k/yr into your CPF acct. It will split only CPF SA (21.6% of 3k or 21.6% of $37.7k) ) & CPF OA (78.4% of 3k or $37.7k).
    If I will to buy a new ppty. I still can use my CPF-OA for my housing loan .
    As long you have met the Full retirement sum ,FRS of 161k (now 161k. By 2020 est 181k). You will able to use your excess CPF-OA for housing.

    If you have reserved CASH (let say 300k) for your future ppty purchase & you still "OWN CPF" + acurred interest (let say 200k). Why dont
    you return partial what u have used it for your HDB or private ppty + accured interest. U are still able to use back the CPF-OA for your future private
    ppty purchase if u decide to buy. 1st 5% is CASH. The next 15% & stamp fee can use CPF-OA.

    But if your CPF-SA have not met the FRS of 161k. U may or may not able to use CPF-OA for 2nd ppty. U need to check with CPF board.


    Pls take note that your have est 161k in your CPF-SA at age 55. Your real own salary + employer contribution is est only 80k+. The rest of the
    amt (est 80k) is due to the compounded interest accumuated for 30 yrs. At age 55, your 161k will transfer to a new CPF retirement acct (RA).
    Dont bother to argue whether CPF life is not so good is not really important. It is the 4%-5% in your SA acct that is very very important. It is able to
    help you with a decent retirement at age 55-60 if you plan wise by ONLY transfer your own CPF-OA to SA to meet the FRS as young as possible.
    Then let the compounded interest effect grow & grow . At age 55-60. You can say BYE BYE to TENSION. HELLO PENSION.



    It is the same for the children CDA acct. I contribute own 6k into my son CDA acct & govt will immediately match $6k. So total is $12k earning 2.5% yearly.
    By age 30, the $12k in my son CDA acct will grow est to 24k & will transfer to my son CPF OA acct whatever it is left over. I prefer not to use it. Treat is as
    a "endowment fund" which can be used for ploy or local university education if need arise. If not, I shall leave untouch till age 30.

    I only contribute $6k (age 1) & it grow to $24k (age 30) thirty yrs later.What a super return but with govt incentive (govt money=$6k) + 30 yrs compounded interest.


    All incentive (CDA acct + 4k medisave into new born baby & 2.5% -5% interest in the CPF acct) given by the govt is all about LONG TERM plan. If you are impatience,
    you will not enjoy the incentive given by the govt.

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    That is good advice for those clueless what to do with 12K excess funds. Locking it in 2.5% growth account is good.

    But for me, I prefer to draw all out and wait for market opportunities. One year just 1 or 2 windows can earn over 25%. But it requires gut and foresight.



    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584 View Post
    As long you have met the Full retirement sum ,FRS of 161k (now 161k. By 2020 est 181k). You will able to use your excess CPF-OA for housing.

    If you have reserved CASH (let say 300k) for your future ppty purchase & you still "OWN CPF" + acurred interest (let say 200k). Why dont
    you return partial what u have used it for your HDB or private ppty + accured interest. U are still able to use back the CPF-OA for your future private
    ppty purchase if u decide to buy. 1st 5% is CASH. The next 15% & stamp fee can use CPF-OA.

    But if your CPF-SA have not met the FRS of 161k. U may or may not able to use CPF-OA for 2nd ppty. U need to check with CPF board.


    Pls take note that your have est 161k in your CPF-SA at age 55. Your real own salary + employer contribution is est only 80k+. The rest of the
    amt (est 80k) is due to the compounded interest accumuated for 30 yrs. At age 55, your 161k will transfer to a new CPF retirement acct (RA).
    Dont bother to argue whether CPF life is not so good is not really important. It is the 4%-5% in your SA acct that is very very important. It is able to
    help you with a decent retirement at age 55-60 if you plan wise by ONLY transfer your own CPF-OA to SA to meet the FRS as young as possible.
    Then let the compounded interest effect grow & grow . At age 55-60. You can say BYE BYE to TENSION. HELLO PENSION.



    It is the same for the children CDA acct. I contribute own 6k into my son CDA acct & govt will immediately match $6k. So total is $12k earning 2.5% yearly.
    By age 30, the $12k in my son CDA acct will grow est to 24k & will transfer to my son CPF OA acct whatever it is left over. I prefer not to use it. Treat is as
    a "endowment fund" which can be used for ploy or local university education if need arise. If not, I shall leave untouch till age 30.

    I only contribute $6k (age 1) & it grow to $24k (age 30) thirty yrs later.What a super return but with govt incentive (govt money=$6k) + 30 yrs compounded interest.


    All incentive (CDA acct + 4k medisave into new born baby & 2.5% -5% interest in the CPF acct) given by the govt is all about LONG TERM plan. If you are impatience,
    you will not enjoy the incentive given by the govt.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    I am not interested all those details which are redundant, I only want to know the most important questions (which no one seem to be able to/willing to answer?):

    If indeed CPF actually buy insurance for CPF Life members, then could you or anybody (including CPF) tells us:

    1) Which insurance company CPF Life buys annuity from?

    2) Did CPF open a call-for-tender to get the best annuity deal from all insurance companies available for CPF Life members?

    3) How much CPF is paying to buy the annuity for men, women, and for different age groups?

    4) How much interest is the annuity paying for a person who can live till average age of 80 years old? What is the difference between men and women?

    5) Where is the financial report for CPF Life which dictates how much annuity premiums paid per year, how much accumulated unpaid reserves etc in CPF Life over the years (because of low CPF Life payout amount)?

    6) What are the management fees, over-head charges etc that CPF is levying on managing CPF Life?

    7) CPF said they gives 4% return for CPF Life money, so what age we need to live till before we can actually get 4% return?

    Seems like nobody can answer all the above most important questions?
    Why are they hiding the details???

    And who is the bloody idiot who keep spreading rumours and telling people that CPF Life pays money to buy insurance to insure those who live too long???
    See, when we ask critical questions about such assertion, nobody can answer! Real or false, we can tell from the answer/non-response!

    Who the FXXX care a a numb nut like you think or want to know? WTF CARE!!!!
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    minority,
    You have been sprouting lots of lies and bullshits here about lots of things, this time about CPF Life, and when we questioned you more on your FALSE claim, you can't answer anymore and say don't care?
    Ha ha ha!

    Don't care despite trying to lie initially about CPF Life buying insurance from insurance company and that CPF Life has "Betroth" when you die???

    Truth is: People participating in CPF Life has been short-changed with low CPF Life Payout!
    CPF Life will have/already have lots of accumulated unpaid SURPLUS! How much is that?
    Have much is CPF charging CPF Life for management fees, overheads, etc?

    Will be interesting to know BUT looks like nobody willing to tell?
    CPF Life now is like a black-box with no financial statement and report, nobody knows what is happening in there???


    Quote Originally Posted by minority View Post
    Who the FXXX care a a numb nut like you think or want to know? WTF CARE!!!!
    Last edited by teddybear; 05-10-16 at 00:34.

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    This is how things are done for us because we are not so SMART to understand, to find out, to know, too busy working overtime and climbing over one another to go higher.

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    Swiber was voted “Best Under a Billion Company” by Forbes Asia as well as the one of the top-ranked companies in 2006.
    The price was @$6.50 in 2007. It was suspended last mth & price was @0.11.

    Investing is a risky biz if you decide to take higher risk for growth companies. IQ along will not make u successful investing.
    You need EQ. If your trades have gone bad & going to be bad. You need to have the courage to cut loss asap. Sad to say
    that only 10% of the investors can master the courage to CUT. The other 90% will wait & HOPE & HOPE it will recover or
    recover to at least CUTTING loss is less painful. But it never comes & you become a very long term investors. The companies
    keep issue RIGHT shares many times & worst of all, Finally "KAPUT" Chapter 11.

    Buying JUNK bond with small issue size is very risky. When times is bad. You got no chance to sell at your preferred price
    due it low liquidilty . It will be a super low price to get it done. Worst of all, totally no price in the mkt at all.

    Never put into everything in one basket. Sad to say that even a person who got a very high IQ failed it. It is due to GREED.


    That is why I say it is better concentrate to put excess $ into CPF. It is AAA rating & guarantee. Too much CASH on hand will
    make you "HAND ITCHES" to take ignorant risk. Ppty is safe but the TDSR & ABSD kills most of the potential nvestors which
    would otherwise invest in ppty rather than RISKY ILLQUID JUNK BOND.

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    They don't call Singapore a Nanny state for nothing.

    Don't know how to invest, they got CPF life.

    Don't know about property, they got HDB. Lease to you 99 years and tell you you own it.

    Don't know how to take care of you Health, they got Medishield.

    Don't know how to educate your child, they got all type of education for your child.

    Don't know how to save, they got CPF.

    Don't know, Don't care, Don't want to think, no problem they have people to think on your behalf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    minority,
    You have been sprouting lots of lies and bullshits here about lots of things, this time about CPF Life, and when we questioned you more on your FALSE claim, you can't answer anymore and say don't care?
    Ha ha ha!

    Don't care despite trying to lie initially about CPF Life buying insurance from insurance company and that CPF Life has "Betroth" when you die???

    Truth is: People participating in CPF Life has been short-changed with low CPF Life Payout!
    CPF Life will have/already have lots of accumulated unpaid SURPLUS! How much is that?
    Have much is CPF charging CPF Life for management fees, overheads, etc?

    Will be interesting to know BUT looks like nobody willing to tell?
    CPF Life now is like a black-box with no financial statement and report, nobody knows what is happening in there???
    OH YOU ARE LIKE THE DONAL TRUMP..... OPEN YOUR MOUTH IS BULL SHIT COME OUT.!!! CAN YOU SHOW US PROFF THAT THATE ARE A LOT OF UNPAID SURPLUS????? CAN YOU SHOW US? DONT JUST OPEN THAT A.HOLE ON YOUR FACE AND JUST LET SHIT FLOW OUT AND TRY TO CONVIENCE US THATS FACTS!

    SHOW US PROOF I CHALLENGE U!
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    minority,
    You are full of shit and lies lah!
    CPF Life is like a black-box, and refused to open their book & publish their financial statements for everyone to see, and you ask me to show what is like a state-secret concerning other people's own money?

    You should go ask CPF to show you CPF Life financial statements to verify! Based on my calculations, there will be lots of unpaid surpluses (because CPF Life payout is too low)!

    Quote Originally Posted by minority View Post
    OH YOU ARE LIKE THE DONAL TRUMP..... OPEN YOUR MOUTH IS BULL SHIT COME OUT.!!! CAN YOU SHOW US PROFF THAT THATE ARE A LOT OF UNPAID SURPLUS????? CAN YOU SHOW US? DONT JUST OPEN THAT A.HOLE ON YOUR FACE AND JUST LET SHIT FLOW OUT AND TRY TO CONVIENCE US THATS FACTS!

    SHOW US PROOF I CHALLENGE U!

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    minority,
    You are full of shit and lies lah!
    CPF Life is like a black-box, and refused to open their book & publish their financial statements for everyone to see, and you ask me to show what is like a state-secret concerning other people's own money?

    You should go ask CPF to show you CPF Life financial statements to verify! Based on my calculations, there will be lots of unpaid surpluses (because CPF Life payout is too low)!

    YOU REALLY TALK SHIT.. SO GO ASK CPF KPKB HERE ! AND YET YOU HAVE NOT SHOW PROOF THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF SUPLUS LEH??? BUT NOW YOU SAY U DONNO BUT LAST POSTING YOU SAY THERE ARE A LOT OF SUPLUS!!! YOU ARE LIKE THE DONAL TRUMP!!! YOU ARE DONAL DUCK!!! QUACK QUACK QUACK QUACK....

    FULL OF SHIT!
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    minority,
    Only you a financial idiot like you who think CPF has "BETROTH" when you die will not know how to calculate payout rate and surpluses.

    I don't need to see the financial statements also can know....... The exact amount figure only CPF will know........
    You want to continue to deny CPF Life has no accumulated surplus? Then go ask CPF to reveal the financial statements! CPF Life is other people's money, why CPF treat it like state secret???

    Quote Originally Posted by minority View Post
    YOU REALLY TALK SHIT.. SO GO ASK CPF KPKB HERE ! AND YET YOU HAVE NOT SHOW PROOF THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF SUPLUS LEH??? BUT NOW YOU SAY U DONNO BUT LAST POSTING YOU SAY THERE ARE A LOT OF SUPLUS!!! YOU ARE LIKE THE DONAL TRUMP!!! YOU ARE DONAL DUCK!!! QUACK QUACK QUACK QUACK....

    FULL OF SHIT!

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    minority,
    Only you a financial idiot like you who think CPF has "BETROTH" when you die will not know how to calculate payout rate and surpluses.

    I don't need to see the financial statements also can know....... The exact amount figure only CPF will know........
    You want to continue to deny CPF Life has no accumulated surplus? Then go ask CPF to reveal the financial statements! CPF Life is other people's money, why CPF treat it like state secret???

    WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT! NOW YOU ADMIT YOU DONNO! FEW POST BEFORE YOU ARE SURE THERE IS SURPLUS! NOW WHEN I ASK YOU SHOW PROOF YOU SAY U DONT KNOW BUT YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT . ARE YOU HAVING A DONALD TRUMP MOMENT?? MORE LIKE DONALD DUCK!!!!

    WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT!

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    minority,
    Don't bullshit lah!

    Just based on the payout figures provided by CPF and the available age statistics, I am sure there will be surplus and there will be lots of lots of SURPLUSES!
    The question is HOW MUCH IS IT?!

    I am NOT like you, a financial idiot who knows NOTHING and yet going around telling people that CPF Life has "BETROTH" when you die and you have GREAT PAYOUT given that CPF Life needs to buy insurance from insurance company to protect your payout! This is just a bunch of LIES! (Even Arachon (a non-financial person) also knows that, this just goes to show how bloody stupid idiot or rather bloody LIAR you are!)

    Why you so scare people ask about CPF Life SURPLUSES?
    Actually, all CPF Life members have the right to know how much CPF Life accumlated unpaid SURPLUSES there are because these come from their money!
    Why so secretive about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by minority View Post
    WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT! NOW YOU ADMIT YOU DONNO! FEW POST BEFORE YOU ARE SURE THERE IS SURPLUS! NOW WHEN I ASK YOU SHOW PROOF YOU SAY U DONT KNOW BUT YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT . ARE YOU HAVING A DONALD TRUMP MOMENT?? MORE LIKE DONALD DUCK!!!!

    WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT!

    Last edited by teddybear; 06-10-16 at 22:01.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    minority,
    Don't bullshit lah!

    Just based on the payout figures provided by CPF and the available age statistics, I am sure there will be surplus and there will be lots of lots of SURPLUSES!
    The question is HOW MUCH IS IT?!

    I am NOT like you, a financial idiot who knows NOTHING and yet going around telling people that CPF Life has "BETROTH" when you die and you have GREAT PAYOUT given that CPF Life needs to buy insurance from insurance company to protect your payout! This is just a bunch of LIES! (Even Arachon (a non-financial person) also knows that, this just goes to show how bloody stupid idiot or rather bloody LIAR you are!)

    Why you so scare people ask about CPF Life SURPLUSES?
    Actually, all CPF Life members have the right to know how much CPF Life accumlated unpaid SURPLUSES there are because these come from their money!
    Why so secretive about it?

    You are the one here saying you are so sure there is surplus!!! so show us? I CALL IT! I CALL YOUR ASS TO SHOW US !!!!!!

    WHY? U SCARED TO SHOW ANY PROOF ON YOUR CLAIMS?? WHY YOU SCARED PEOPLE QUESTION YOU ON YOUR EMPTY CLAIMS??
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    minority,

    You are just repeating the same OLD THING, like a PARROT that made NO sense.....
    Only CPF has the financial statements, and you don't ask them to show you and you ask me?

    I am NOT a FINANCIAL IDIOT like you who can tell everyone that CPF Life has "BETROTH" when a CPF Life member die and that CPF Life buys insurance from insurance company! What a bunch of LIES!

    As opposed to you, based on my financial calculations, I am sure there will be LOTS of SURPLUSES in CPF Life!

    You want PROOF? Go ask CPF to be more transparent loh (don't treat other people's money like theirs and kept it a secret! Is it because they thought like that then they can pay low payout and so that FINANCIAL IDIOT like you will NOT know?!)



    Quote Originally Posted by minority View Post
    You are the one here saying you are so sure there is surplus!!! so show us? I CALL IT! I CALL YOUR ASS TO SHOW US !!!!!!

    WHY? U SCARED TO SHOW ANY PROOF ON YOUR CLAIMS?? WHY YOU SCARED PEOPLE QUESTION YOU ON YOUR EMPTY CLAIMS??

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    minority,

    You are just repeating the same OLD THING, like a PARROT that made NO sense.....
    Only CPF has the financial statements, and you don't ask them to show you and you ask me?

    I am NOT a FINANCIAL IDIOT like you who can tell everyone that CPF Life has "BETROTH" when a CPF Life member die and that CPF Life buys insurance from insurance company! What a bunch of LIES!

    As opposed to you, based on my financial calculations, I am sure there will be LOTS of SURPLUSES in CPF Life!

    You want PROOF? Go ask CPF to be more transparent loh (don't treat other people's money like theirs and kept it a secret! Is it because they thought like that then they can pay low payout and so that FINANCIAL IDIOT like you will NOT know?!)


    YOU ARE THE ONE WHO CLAIM THERE ARE A LOT OF SURPLUS! SO SINCE YOU CLAIM IT NATUARALLY ASK YOU TO SHOW US! WHY CANNOT SHOW U WANT TO CLAIM? WAT A LOAD OF CRAP!
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    Wow!
    I am wondering whether CPF would have liked your style very much???

    As long as they don't reveal CPF Life's Financial Statements, they, just like you, can tell people that "Please show us that there are LOTS of SURPLUSES in CPF Life! Show, Wat a load of crap you are saying!"

    Wow! Is that what people called "官字两个口"????
    (Except that they, like you, better don't treat people like an idiot!
    minority, you have shown yourself to be the BIGGEST IDIOT here!)

    Quote Originally Posted by minority View Post
    YOU ARE THE ONE WHO CLAIM THERE ARE A LOT OF SURPLUS! SO SINCE YOU CLAIM IT NATUARALLY ASK YOU TO SHOW US! WHY CANNOT SHOW U WANT TO CLAIM? WAT A LOAD OF CRAP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Wow!
    I am wondering whether CPF would have liked your style very much???

    As long as they don't reveal CPF Life's Financial Statements, they, just like you, can tell people that "Please show us that there are LOTS of SURPLUSES in CPF Life! Show, Wat a load of crap you are saying!"

    Wow! Is that what people called "官字两个口"????
    (Except that they, like you, better don't treat people like an idiot!
    minority, you have shown yourself to be the BIGGEST IDIOT here!)


    YOU ARE THE ONE WHO CLAIM IT ?? WHAT AM I HEARING?? NOW BACK TRACKING THAT YOU ARE SO SURE?? NOW YOU ARE NOT SURE?? LOL SO MUCH FOR YOUR BULL SHIT CRAP LIES!
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    I thought I was the first one to point out that CPF will have huge accumulated unpaid surplus from CPF but sadly just realized that someone already pointed that out in 2009!

    minority,
    If you are so stupid, you can read the below from the linked web address because they have provided the detail calculations:

    Some back-of-the-envelope calculations

    I have made some back-of-the-envelope CPF Life calculations. This example is for a male participant who has $67,000 cash in his CPF Minimum Sum (assuming a total Minimum Sum of $134,000, of which half is property pledge, and half is cash savings).

    These are my assumptions:
    • The Government makes a consistent rate of return of 5% on ALL of its funds under management. That is, the Government is able to invest both the Retirement Account (RA) and Refundable Premium (RP) at an ROI of 5%. Any amount left in the RA is distributed to beneficiaries upon demise, but the RP fund is not. The RP fund is the “common pool” used to provide perpetual income for surviving members.
    • The investment return on the RP fund is NOT accrued to the CPF member’s account but instead held in Government coffers. ONLY the investment return on the RA is accrued to the CPF member’s account and distributed to beneficiaries in the event of early demise.
    • Monthly income of $610 begins at age 65.
    • The member chooses the default plan.
    • When the member is between the ages of 65 and 80, I am assuming his contribution to the RP fund is not used to provide monthly payments — only the RA funds inclusive of interested earned are drawn down to provide the monthly payments.
    • I am also assuming that after the age of 80, the Government starts paying off the member using the pooled RP fund including any residual amount left in the RA, while continuing to invest the pooled fund at an ROI of 5%. However from this point onwards, none of the interest earned is accrued to the member’s CPF account as the RA portion has become nonexistent.



    The following table shows the balance amount in the member’s RA and RP account at each age from 55 to 95, the amount that the beneficiaries would get in the event of demise, as well as the net profit that the Government earns from the scheme, which is the interest earned from the RP pool minus the cumulative payouts made to the CPF member.

    The member gets $7,320 per year, based on a monthly income of $610. As can be seen from the table, the RA fund has insufficient balance to pay the member by age 80, and subsequent payouts are made from the pooled account.
    By the age of 80, the Government is estimated to have as much as $38,373 net profit. That is a HUGE profit for the Government! In fact, the net profit for the Government increases to a high of $45,723 by the time the member reaches age 83! Clearly if the CPF member passes away around the ages of 80-85, the Government stands to earn a LOT OF MONEY from the scheme! This is because the interest earned on RP fund is NOT given to the beneficiary but kept in the common pool upon the member’s death.
    As can also be seen from the table, the amount of money that left outstanding in the member’s account rapidly diminishes after 80, so that by age 84, the beneficiary would get NOTHING in the event of demise of the member. However, the Government coffers still have a lot of cash. There is enough cash in the Government coffers to pay the member $610 per month for several more years while still maintaining profitability from the scheme. It is only AFTER the age of 90 that the Government starts losing money on the scheme.

    This back-of-the-envelope calculation shows that even assuming the Government is right about half of CPF Life participants surviving to 85 years of age, the Government will clearly make a net profit from most members, given that comparatively fewer members will make it past 90 years of age.

    It is therefore very fair to assume that the Government could perpetually generate large surpluses from the scheme, especially when we take into account the fact that premiums and monthly payouts will be altered in accordance with morality experience and the return of investments, thereby ensuring that the Government seldom goes into deficit in any particular year.

    In conclusion
    The CPF Life scheme is an attempt to repair a national pension system that has become inadequate in sustaining members through old age. The reason why the CPF system has become deficient in the first place is because of persistently low interest rates paid on CPF accounts, which has prevented members from building their wealth, as well as members having to pay a large amount of funds towards their property. As a result of these two factors, and to some extent the inadequacies of the Medisave system in taking care of members’ medical needs, the CPF Life scheme is needed to fill the gaps of this sinking ship.

    My back-of-the-envelope calculation coupled with the Government’s current stand that premiums and monthly payouts will be altered in accordance with morality experience and the return of investments shows that even when implementing the CPF Life scheme, the Government is mercenery enough to insist that it has virtually a 100% chance of making a good profit from the scheme.

    My take therefore is not that people should be made to adhere to the principles of self-reliance and self-provision at all cost, but that the Government should be weened of its reliance on the people to fatten its already bulging coffers, and instead help provide for the peoples’ retirement from its massive vaults which house the blood and toil of generations past.



    Quote Originally Posted by minority View Post
    YOU ARE THE ONE WHO CLAIM IT ?? WHAT AM I HEARING?? NOW BACK TRACKING THAT YOU ARE SO SURE?? NOW YOU ARE NOT SURE?? LOL SO MUCH FOR YOUR BULL SHIT CRAP LIES!

  24. #234
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    Mar 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    I thought I was the first one to point out that CPF will have huge accumulated unpaid surplus from CPF but sadly just realized that someone already pointed that out in 2009!

    minority,
    If you are so stupid, you can read the below from the linked web address because they have provided the detail calculations:

    Some back-of-the-envelope calculations

    I have made some back-of-the-envelope CPF Life calculations. This example is for a male participant who has $67,000 cash in his CPF Minimum Sum (assuming a total Minimum Sum of $134,000, of which half is property pledge, and half is cash savings).

    These are my assumptions:
    • The Government makes a consistent rate of return of 5% on ALL of its funds under management. That is, the Government is able to invest both the Retirement Account (RA) and Refundable Premium (RP) at an ROI of 5%. Any amount left in the RA is distributed to beneficiaries upon demise, but the RP fund is not. The RP fund is the “common pool” used to provide perpetual income for surviving members.
    • The investment return on the RP fund is NOT accrued to the CPF member’s account but instead held in Government coffers. ONLY the investment return on the RA is accrued to the CPF member’s account and distributed to beneficiaries in the event of early demise.
    • Monthly income of $610 begins at age 65.
    • The member chooses the default plan.
    • When the member is between the ages of 65 and 80, I am assuming his contribution to the RP fund is not used to provide monthly payments — only the RA funds inclusive of interested earned are drawn down to provide the monthly payments.
    • I am also assuming that after the age of 80, the Government starts paying off the member using the pooled RP fund including any residual amount left in the RA, while continuing to invest the pooled fund at an ROI of 5%. However from this point onwards, none of the interest earned is accrued to the member’s CPF account as the RA portion has become nonexistent.



    The following table shows the balance amount in the member’s RA and RP account at each age from 55 to 95, the amount that the beneficiaries would get in the event of demise, as well as the net profit that the Government earns from the scheme, which is the interest earned from the RP pool minus the cumulative payouts made to the CPF member.

    The member gets $7,320 per year, based on a monthly income of $610. As can be seen from the table, the RA fund has insufficient balance to pay the member by age 80, and subsequent payouts are made from the pooled account.
    By the age of 80, the Government is estimated to have as much as $38,373 net profit. That is a HUGE profit for the Government! In fact, the net profit for the Government increases to a high of $45,723 by the time the member reaches age 83! Clearly if the CPF member passes away around the ages of 80-85, the Government stands to earn a LOT OF MONEY from the scheme! This is because the interest earned on RP fund is NOT given to the beneficiary but kept in the common pool upon the member’s death.
    As can also be seen from the table, the amount of money that left outstanding in the member’s account rapidly diminishes after 80, so that by age 84, the beneficiary would get NOTHING in the event of demise of the member. However, the Government coffers still have a lot of cash. There is enough cash in the Government coffers to pay the member $610 per month for several more years while still maintaining profitability from the scheme. It is only AFTER the age of 90 that the Government starts losing money on the scheme.

    This back-of-the-envelope calculation shows that even assuming the Government is right about half of CPF Life participants surviving to 85 years of age, the Government will clearly make a net profit from most members, given that comparatively fewer members will make it past 90 years of age.

    It is therefore very fair to assume that the Government could perpetually generate large surpluses from the scheme, especially when we take into account the fact that premiums and monthly payouts will be altered in accordance with morality experience and the return of investments, thereby ensuring that the Government seldom goes into deficit in any particular year.

    In conclusion
    The CPF Life scheme is an attempt to repair a national pension system that has become inadequate in sustaining members through old age. The reason why the CPF system has become deficient in the first place is because of persistently low interest rates paid on CPF accounts, which has prevented members from building their wealth, as well as members having to pay a large amount of funds towards their property. As a result of these two factors, and to some extent the inadequacies of the Medisave system in taking care of members’ medical needs, the CPF Life scheme is needed to fill the gaps of this sinking ship.

    My back-of-the-envelope calculation coupled with the Government’s current stand that premiums and monthly payouts will be altered in accordance with morality experience and the return of investments shows that even when implementing the CPF Life scheme, the Government is mercenery enough to insist that it has virtually a 100% chance of making a good profit from the scheme.

    My take therefore is not that people should be made to adhere to the principles of self-reliance and self-provision at all cost, but that the Government should be weened of its reliance on the people to fatten its already bulging coffers, and instead help provide for the peoples’ retirement from its massive vaults which house the blood and toil of generations past.
    IS THIS BULLSHIT THE BEST YOU CAN DO???? QUOTE SOME RETURN MY CPF BULL JUST LIKE U! A FRAUD!

    1. YOU SAY YOU ARE SURE THERE IS SUPLUS AND UR SO CALL SURE IS QUOTE SOME DUBIOUS SITE? WOW!! MUST CLAP FOR YOUR BULL!
    2. WHAT BACK OF THE ENVELOPE BULL!!! YOU MEAN THE RETURN CAN BE 5% WOW WHERE THAT NO. COME FROM SOME ASS PULL OUT? 5% IS PAID OUT TO THE RA IT GO INTO THE ANNUNITY! YOU PAID FOR A ANNUNITY U STILL CAN GET 5%? WHICH COMPANY GET THAT FOR YOU?
    3. WHY NEVER SAY WHERE THE BEAK OUT OF $ GO TO? THE ONE WITH BEQUEST TO THE ONE WITHOUT? THE DRAW DOWN MTHLY NO NEED CERTAINTY? WOW YOU MEAN CAN GENERATE 5% AND YET STILL HAVE CERTAINTY ON THE PRINCIPLE AND DRAW DOWN SUI SUI?? THAT BACK OF THE ENVELOPE BULLSHIT LIKE YOU ARE A FRAUD!
    4. THE MONEY GO INTO THE A SHARED POOL. WHY NEVER MENTION PEOPLE WHO LIVE LONGER STILL DRAW DOWN? WHO PAY FOR THOSE DRAW DOWN? MAGIC? ITS LIKE INSURANCE!!! SHARE RISK POOL !!! SOME LIVE LONGER SOME SHORTER!!!! IF ALL LIVE LONGER THEN THE POOL WILL NOT BE ENOUGH AND PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO PAY MORE!!! YOU DOUBLE FACE DUMB ASS!!!

    GLEAN THROUGH FACTS FUDGE IT WHEN QUESTION QUOTE SOME DUBIOUS SITES AS YOUR FACT!!!!

    BLOODY FRAUD AND LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
    ― Martin Luther King, Jr.

    OUT WITH THE SHIT TRASH

    https://www.facebook.com/shutdowntrs

  25. #235
    teddybear's Avatar
    teddybear is offline Global recession is coming....
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    minority,

    Fraud can only be committed by people holding the account, I am not in charge of the account, how to commit Fraud?
    Furthermore, fraud can only be easily tempted and committed when nobody knows what is in the account there, so people are wise to ask for financial statements to be published and circulated openly to prevent and deter fraud..........

    As to LIES, you have made LOTS of them!
    Every one can see the proof here already regarding your lies on your FALSE CLAIMS:
    1) CPF Life has "BETROTH" when you die!
    2) CPF Life buys insurance for their members from insurance company!


    Minority, why don't you prove your above 2 CLAIMS?
    Ha ha ha!
    What a bunch of BULLSHIT and LIES!


    Quote Originally Posted by minority View Post
    IS THIS BULLSHIT THE BEST YOU CAN DO???? QUOTE SOME RETURN MY CPF BULL JUST LIKE U! A FRAUD!

    1. YOU SAY YOU ARE SURE THERE IS SUPLUS AND UR SO CALL SURE IS QUOTE SOME DUBIOUS SITE? WOW!! MUST CLAP FOR YOUR BULL!
    2. WHAT BACK OF THE ENVELOPE BULL!!! YOU MEAN THE RETURN CAN BE 5% WOW WHERE THAT NO. COME FROM SOME ASS PULL OUT? 5% IS PAID OUT TO THE RA IT GO INTO THE ANNUNITY! YOU PAID FOR A ANNUNITY U STILL CAN GET 5%? WHICH COMPANY GET THAT FOR YOU?
    3. WHY NEVER SAY WHERE THE BEAK OUT OF $ GO TO? THE ONE WITH BEQUEST TO THE ONE WITHOUT? THE DRAW DOWN MTHLY NO NEED CERTAINTY? WOW YOU MEAN CAN GENERATE 5% AND YET STILL HAVE CERTAINTY ON THE PRINCIPLE AND DRAW DOWN SUI SUI?? THAT BACK OF THE ENVELOPE BULLSHIT LIKE YOU ARE A FRAUD!
    4. THE MONEY GO INTO THE A SHARED POOL. WHY NEVER MENTION PEOPLE WHO LIVE LONGER STILL DRAW DOWN? WHO PAY FOR THOSE DRAW DOWN? MAGIC? ITS LIKE INSURANCE!!! SHARE RISK POOL !!! SOME LIVE LONGER SOME SHORTER!!!! IF ALL LIVE LONGER THEN THE POOL WILL NOT BE ENOUGH AND PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO PAY MORE!!! YOU DOUBLE FACE DUMB ASS!!!

    GLEAN THROUGH FACTS FUDGE IT WHEN QUESTION QUOTE SOME DUBIOUS SITES AS YOUR FACT!!!!

    BLOODY FRAUD AND LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  26. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    minority,

    Fraud can only be committed by people holding the account, I am not in charge of the account, how to commit Fraud?
    Furthermore, fraud can only be easily tempted and committed when nobody knows what is in the account there, so people are wise to ask for financial statements to be published and circulated openly to prevent and deter fraud..........

    As to LIES, you have made LOTS of them!
    Every one can see the proof here already regarding your lies on your FALSE CLAIMS:
    1) CPF Life has "BETROTH" when you die!
    2) CPF Life buys insurance for their members from insurance company!


    Minority, why don't you prove your above 2 statements?
    Ha ha ha!
    What a bunch of BULLSHIT and LIES!
    AGAIN BULL SHIT LET ME HELP YOU EXPLAIN THE MEANING WHAT FRAUD IS . BUT I GUESS YOU KNOW ALREADY BLOODY LIAR!!!

    THIS IS FOR SOMEONE WHO CLAIM FOR SURE THERE ARE SUPLUS !!!! THEN SAY HE READ FROM SOME BULL SHIT SITE!!! WOW!!!!

    fraud
    frɔːd/
    noun

    -a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.
    "mediums exposed as tricksters and frauds"
    synonyms: impostor, fake, sham, pretender, hoodwinker, masquerader, charlatan, quack, mountebank; More
    “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
    ― Martin Luther King, Jr.

    OUT WITH THE SHIT TRASH

    https://www.facebook.com/shutdowntrs

  27. #237
    teddybear's Avatar
    teddybear is offline Global recession is coming....
    Join Date
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    minority,

    Based on your definitions, you MUST HAVE already committed 2 FRAUDS on
    your FALSE CLAIMS:
    1) CPF Life has "BETROTH" when you die!
    2) CPF Life buys insurance for their members from insurance company!


    So much so for talking about fraud!

    Oh minority,
    by the way, is claiming higher return you would receive than you ACTUALLY get also considered as "FRAUD"???


    Quote Originally Posted by minority View Post
    AGAIN BULL SHIT LET ME HELP YOU EXPLAIN THE MEANING WHAT FRAUD IS . BUT I GUESS YOU KNOW ALREADY BLOODY LIAR!!!

    THIS IS FOR SOMEONE WHO CLAIM FOR SURE THERE ARE SUPLUS !!!! THEN SAY HE READ FROM SOME BULL SHIT SITE!!! WOW!!!!

    fraud
    frɔːd/
    noun

    -a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.
    "mediums exposed as tricksters and frauds"
    synonyms: impostor, fake, sham, pretender, hoodwinker, masquerader, charlatan, quack, mountebank; More
    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    minority,

    Fraud can only be committed by people holding the account, I am not in charge of the account, how to commit Fraud?
    Furthermore, fraud can only be easily tempted and committed when nobody knows what is in the account there, so people are wise to ask for financial statements to be published and circulated openly to prevent and deter fraud..........

    As to LIES, you have made LOTS of them!
    Every one can see the proof here already regarding your lies on your FALSE CLAIMS:
    1) CPF Life has "BETROTH" when you die!
    2) CPF Life buys insurance for their members from insurance company!


    Minority, why don't you prove your above 2 CLAIMS?
    Ha ha ha!
    What a bunch of BULLSHIT and LIES!

  28. #238
    Join Date
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    Hi cpf board officer,

    I would like to enquire on cash top up to special account.

    Assume I do cash top up 7k for 20 years from age 30 to 50, when I reach 55, this 140k has accumulated to 250k, and my monthly salary contribution is 200k. Assume the FRS is 200k (though should be much higher), I can withdraw 50k (250k cash top up - 200k) +200k (monthly salary contribution) total of 250k right?

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Reply from CPF office,


    Dear Sir,

    Thank you for taking time to write to us on 17 August 2016.

    The cash top-ups will be used to set aside the Full Retirement Sum of $200,000 at age 55.

    Yes, you can withdraw the remaining cash top-ups of $50,000 as well as the contributions of $200,000.

    For more information, please visit www.cpf.gov.sg. If you would like assistance, please call 1800 227 1188 from Monday to Friday, 8am to 5.30pm.

    Yours sincerely
    CPF officer


    ===================================================================================================================================
    For those who are self employer. You are only required to contribute to MEDISAVE acct. You can voluntary cash either to OA,SA & MA or ONLY to Special acct.

    My friend (married) who is self employer. He got totally no discipline to save for rainy day. 7 yrs ago I met with him. He told me he spent almost $20k+ on KaraOK girls. Just met him recently. I cant believe he said it has spent >$100k on KaraOK girls for the past 10yrs. Now he seldom go to KaraOK as he got less money to spend due to big slow down in biz. When you are self employed. During good times, if you did not plan for retirement need either through CPF cash contribution or insurance saving plan etc. You will likely to suffer when there is a serious long downturn . U need to Remember that continuous prosperity is not guarantee. "Dig you well way ahead b4 you get thirty".

  29. #239
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    The small risk is if you transfer until 40 years old and suddenly can't work. All the money will be stuck there because may even struggle to meet MS.

    But if already have excess cash then why not?
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  30. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsh38584 View Post
    CPF is more than enough for retirement Planning if you manage it wisely - Starting pay $2500 @age25
    =============================================================================
    There are 3 type of min retirement sum as from 2016 Figure.

    2016 retirement sum figure for BRS (80.5k) , FRS ($161k) & ERS ($241k)
    2020 retirement sum figure for BRS (90.5k) , FRS ($181k) & ERS ($271k) inflation est 2.5%

    1. Basic Retirement Sum(BRS) = $80.5k with 2/3/4 rm HDB pledged
    Monthly payout for life@65 = $660-$720

    2. Full Retirement Sum (FRS) = $161k (No 2/3/4 rm HDB pledged)
    Monthly payout for life@65 = $1220-$1320

    3.Enhanced Retirement Sum (ERS) = $241,500
    Those who wish to put more saving in CPF life - optional
    Monthly payout for life@65 = $1770-$1920.

    Max contribution to your CPF for 2015 = $31.45k / yr (20% of your Salary + 17% employer + voluntary cash)
    Max contribution to your CPF for 2016 = $37.75k / yr (20% of your Salary + 17% employer + voluntary cash)


    Many of them are unaware of how their annual income + CPF adds up over 30 years of working (age 25 to age 55).

    Starting pay $2500 (3% Salary increment yearly till age 55).Do nothing to your CPF acct
    ==================================================================
    At age 25 - OA=$7.1k. SA=$1.9k MA=$2.5k

    By age 35, OA=$112k. SA=33k. MA=41k

    By age 45 - OA=$268k. SA=120k. MA=97k

    By age 55 - OA=$479k. SA=354k. MA = $138k

    ** When MA (now call BHS) ceiling is reached ($49.8k) Excess goes to SA. But if SA (4%) min FRS ($161k) is also reached. MA (4%) excess goes to OA (2.5%)

    NET CASH Income (take home pay) earned accumulated for 30 years of working (age 25 to age 55)= $1.3 million dollars very very more than enough
    for the HDB BTO 4rm HDB flat $350k (income >$8k no HDB grant) . I did not include variable or performance bonus which range from 0.5 mth to 3 mths
    & also your partner income whic may be also $1.3m if she/he has the same earning power.

    If you have the job stability & the financial capablilty . Consider on How To Manage Your CPF Money by Shift all your money from Ordinary Acct to Special Acct as
    YOUNG as possible. You will get extra >60k to 100k more with no sweat involved at all.Just transfering OA-SA every Year . It MUST BE DONE when you are young.


    Shift CPF-OA (2.5%-3.5%) to SA (4-5%) at YOUNG age & start to transfer OA (2.5% to SA(4%)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    At age 25 - OA=$7.1k. SA=$1.9k. MA=$2.5k.

    By age 35, OA=0 (vs 112k). SA=156k (vs 33k) . MA=41k

    By 45 - OA=$85k.(vs 268k) SA=347k (vs 120k). MA=93k

    By 55 - OA=$341k (vs$479k) @SA=$550k to 600k. (vs $354k). @MA=$100k - 135k

    @ SA=550k to $600k depend on the CPF board yearly adjustment of the min sum retirement % increment. Range from 2.5% to 3.5%.

    @ MA= $100k to $135k also depend on the CPF board yearly adjustment on the MA & your medishield life selection from Govt b2 to private A class
    MA (now call BHS) ceiling is reached. MA Excess goes to SA. But if SA min sum is also reached. MA excess goes to OA

    Remember, you are not voluntary CASH contribution in the CPF. Just only your 20% of your Salary + 17% from your employer.

    ================================================================================================================
    I believe only the minorities have the financial capablity , determination & discipline to prorities their retirement need when young & transfer from OA
    to SA to see the magic of compouned interest in their special acct. Young prefer WANTS 1st & ignore the NEEDS. if they mismanage the CASH & CPF,
    they will be in trouble when they grow old. Low cash & low CPF.

    I do not recommend to voluntary contribute cash into CPF when young unless you really have more more than enough cash either from your parent or you yourself.
    Maybe when your reach late 40s & your children are age 21 & start working . You have extra cash. Can consider voluntary cash into CPF if min sum is met.
    By age 55, you can withdraw all after meeting the min sum (161k). Eg OA=200k SA=201k MA=49.8k(cannot touch). U can withdraw all OA=200k + SA=40k
    (201k minus 161k) if you chose FRS ($161k).


    Since most of the young couple likely to marry late between age 30-40. Why not set yourself a tgt to hit your Special acct min $100k at age 35
    (By age 35, OA=$112k. SA=33k --- Move 67k from your OA to SA (33k + 67k ) to increase your SA to 100k tgt.


    Once your SA=100k is reached by age 35. You know that the BIG WORRY min retirement need is SETTLED & can concentrate to build your OA .
    Any extra contribution to your SA is extra extra bonus.



    $100k compounded 4% interest for 30 yrs. U will have at least 325k at age 65. A very basic retirement est 2.5k/mth at age 65 for life.
    http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator...calculator.htm



    FYI, those wiives who decided to become a homemaker to take care of children & self employed . You better start to think now about your retirement as you have much lesser CPF for retirement. A umarried man or women. You are also need to plan early as MAID is the only person which you need to depend on when you grow old.

    If you are a reasonable high income earner (>5k) with a stable job in your late 20s or early 30s. You do not need your CPF OA for your housing as you have enough liquid cash or you are still not married etc. Why not consider transfer your CPF 0A (2.5%) to CPF SA (4%) before it hit the full retirement sum (yr 2016 FRS=161k ). Do it as young as possible. Once the FRS ( Yr 2016 is 161k) is hit. You are not allowed to internal transfer from CPF-OA (2.5%) to CPF SA(4%).

    Take note that your CPF OA will grow again if you continue to work. Your CPF OA will grow very fast again due to larger % contribution (40%-55%) as compare to
    CPF SA (est 18%-21%) depending on your age.


    Assume at age 31 , you have
    CPF OA = 121k
    CPF SA = 30k


    After Transfering CPF OA to CPF SA
    -------------------------------------------------
    CPF OA = 21k
    CPF SA = 130k

    By transfering 100k from your CPF OA (2.5%) to CPF SA (4%) to earn the extra 1.5% .U will earn Extra 56k interest which is compounded for 30 yrs..
    Extra $56k you get by doing nothing.

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