Any Ceiling for contribution of CPF OA?

[minority]

Ok, so you and Hakuho double asserted that CPF pays you 0% interest rate for your outstanding retirement account money (which has NOT YET been paid out) after 65 years old, and SO you both are PERSISTING in your CLAIM that CPF Board is lying to all of us (contrary to CPF Board's statement on their webpage which states that "The payout range is based on interest rates of between 3.75% and 4.25%")!

I believe both you and Hakuho's CLAIM are not true, but I have nothing to help CPF defense itself against such allegations. It is best for CPF to be more transparent to avoid such claims (and many more in coffeeshop talk)!

as usual bullshit try his best to mis quote to justify his bull shitness. Bloody liar

[chestnut]

Teddy, which part of amber's explaination you don't understand????

CPF Life works on the principle that people who die earlier (before
80) subsidy people who live longer (above 80).

We need to NOTE that CPF board pays interest for the minimum sum in your RA from age 55 to 65. Thereafter, CPF will not pay you any interest in your REDUCING BALANCE amount in your RA at age 65 onward when you start to draw down from your RA.

By right, your reducing balance in your RA should receive interest. Because CPF board needs to pay out from its 'own packet' when you live beyond 80 years, hence CPF is not paying you any interest from your reducing balance in your RA from age 65 onward so that CPF board could pay those living longer than 80 years the monthly payout till death from the interest CPF board save from not paying you interest in your reducing balance in your RA from age 65 onward.

So in effect, CPF board simply use the interest from your reducing balance in your RA (by not paying you any interest from age 65 onward) to pay to those who live longer than 80 years.

[teddybear]

minority,
Wow! After exposing you for being the BIGGEST LIAR and BULLSHITTER here MANY TIMES and you are still so thick skin to be around and still claim that other people bullshit?

minority, still waiting for your reply of my previous post, this is like the 41th time I am asking you the same question to clarify YOUR CLAIM (that you refuse to answer):
Didn't you claim CPF Life gives 7.5% return in your previous post?
Why after I exposed your LIE, you are not going to defend your PONZI "7.5% return" for CPF Life any more???


Evidence can be seen at this webpage here:
http://forums.condosingapore.com/sho...020#post524020

minority,
I am repeating and this like 30th time now AND You are still NOT ANSWERING my QUESTION:
Didn't you claim CPF Life gives 7.5% return in your previous post?

Post of evidence of your LIE is at this webpage here:
http://forums.condosingapore.com/sho...ht=#post523905

Why after I exposed your LIE, you are not going to defend your PONZI "7.5% return" for CPF Life any more???
Is it because you know you are unable to defend the "7.5%" after being exposed??? Ha ha ha!

And you still refused to retract your BLOODY LIE about Olam (majority owned by Temasek) rigging its book so as to avoid paying income taxes on Capital Injection?

Evidence of your LIE can be found here:
http://forums.condosingapore.com/sho...244#post527244

minority,

More bullshit from you? Ha ha ha!

If capital injection must be included as revenue/profit, then why Olam put "Capital Injection" as an item in "Cash flows from investing activities"?

You can see the FACTS here in Page 19:
http://49tmko49h46b4e0czy3rlqaye1b.w...eport_FY16.pdf

So, if based on what you said, capital injection must be included as revenue/profit, then are you telling us that Olam is then trying to avoid income taxes by putting "capital injection $" as "Cash flows from investing activities"?

You claimed that:

SHOW ME IN IRAS SAY GOVERNMENT CONTRIBUTION ARE NOT TAXABLE?? SHOW ME!!! PROVE ME WRONG!
...
COMPANY A NEGATIVE GET A CONTRIBUTION FROM COMPANY B AND A END THE BOOKS POSITIVE! SO SHOULD HAVE NO TAX!!!???? WTF LOGIC???


Based on what you claimed, Olam should have reflected the "capital injection $" into revenue/profit in Income Statement and pay the corporate income taxes for this amount! By putting "capital injection $" in "Cash flows from investing activities", Olam has avoided paying corporate income taxes for this amount!

So minority, are you accusing Olam of trying rig its book to avoid paying income taxes (and considering that Olam if majority-controlled by Temasek!)????????

minority,
Don't come here to bullshit to malign Olam and Temasek ok?!

as usual bullshit try his best to mis quote to justify his bull shitness. Bloody liar

[minority]

Teddy, which part of amber's explaination you don't understand????

He understand lah.. just want to Twist like a worm and say something else. and spread fake facts.

[Hakuho]

Read properly la, the first sentence said zero interest rate for CPF Life?

And when did I say CPF Life does not pay interest.

I think Amber is probably also being misunderstood la.

So, to continue using the same dataset originated from LSH’s article.

For the 1972 cohort, the actuary acting for CPF Life determines that the life expectancy as 85. He should live AT LEAST until the age 85.

(please don't argue why 85 and not 90 etc, the actuary is one of smartest person in finance so we should trust his data)

The individual account balance started with $244 k, the drawdown will be $1017 pm over 20 years. Drawdown means from an account NOT earning interest.

BUT.

CPF Life is paying him $1355 pm over the same 20 years, and will continue to pay for life.

Should the individual dies before the age of 85, a bequest shall be paid to his beneficiary.

In other words, CPF Life guarantees a minimum payout of $325 k ($1355 x 12 x 20) FOR THIS COHORT.

[Hakuho]

So, to continue using the same dataset originated from LSH’s article.

For the 1972 cohort, the actuary acting for CPF Life determines that the life expectancy as 85. He should live AT LEAST until the age 85.

(please don't argue why 85 and not 90 etc, the actuary is one of smartest person in finance so we should trust his data)

The individual account balance started with $244 k, the drawdown will be $1017 pm over 20 years. Drawdown means from an account NOT earning interest.

BUT.

CPF Life is paying him $1355 pm over the same 20 years, and will continue to pay for life.

Should the individual dies before the age of 85, a bequest shall be paid to his beneficiary.

In other words, CPF Life guarantees a minimum payout of $325 k ($1355 x 12 x 20) FOR THIS COHORT.

Typo error: it should be 1962 cohort

Last sentence to append:

The bequest amount is $244 k less total payouts made till DOD

[laohero]

He understand lah.. just want to Twist like a worm and say something else. and spread fake facts.

YES. HE IS A BLOODY TROLL.
READING THROUGH THE HISTORY, HE HAD BEEN TROLLING ON THIS TOPIC AND MANY OTHER TOPICS AGAINST SO MANY FORUMMERS (ESPECIALLY NEW MEMBERS) THAT WE ARE LOSING VALUABLE VIEWS FROM THE NEW MEMBERS AS THEY ARE PUT OFF AND TIRED AGAINST SUCH A BLOODY TROLL.

HAKUHO IS ONE OF THE NEW MEMBERS THAT I LIKED TO READ HIS VIEW.
I HOPE HE STAYS IN THIS FORUM. I SUGGEST HE STOP ENGAGING SUCH A BLOODY TROLL AND WASTE HIS OWN TIME ON SUCH A TROLL WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE BALLS TO ASK THE AUTHORITIES ON HIS ALLEGATIONS.

[Amber Woods]

Read properly la, the first sentence said zero interest rate for CPF Life?

And when did I say CPF Life does not pay interest.

I think Amber is probably also being misunderstood la.

The CPF Life scheme has 3 plans; namely: Standard, Basic and Escalating. You will be asked to chose the Plan when you reach 65 or nearer to your draw out age.

What I am referring to is the Standard Plan for which all the money in the RA account will be transferred to an annuity fund when you reach 65 and you will receive payout from the fund until you die. If you do not indicate your preference Plan before age 70, CPF Board will by default decide for you the Standard Plan.

As for the Basic Plan, only 10% of the money from your RA account will be transferred to the annuity fund. The reminding money in your RA account (90%) will still receive interest of between 3.75% - 4.25% as stated. Your monthly payout will be drawn from your RA account until you reach 90. Thereafter, you will receive monthly payout out of the annuity fund until you die.

[Kelonguni]

Thanks for enlightening. It makes sense but best to ask the CPF officer when the time comes.

The CPF Life scheme has 3 plans; namely: Standard, Basic and Escalating. You will be asked to chose the Plan when you reach 65 or nearer to your draw out age.

What I am referring to is the Standard Plan for which all the money in the RA account will be transferred to an annuity fund when you reach 65 and you will receive payout from the fund until you die. If you do not indicate your preference Plan before age 70, CPF Board will by default decide for you the Standard Plan.

As for the Basic Plan, only 10% of the money from your RA account will be transferred to the annuity fund. The reminding money in your RA account (90%) will still receive interest of between 3.75% - 4.25% as stated. Your monthly payout will be drawn from your RA account until you reach 90. Thereafter, you will receive monthly payout out of the annuity fund until you die.

[chestnut]

An explanation

http://www.straitstimes.com/business...-cpf-life-plan

http://www.sharesinvestcoach.com/abo...tandard-plans/

[cbsh38584]

When I decided to plan for my retirement age. I know CPF is one of the best scheme avail. GUARANTEE by govt + HIGH interest rate - 2.5% to 5% compounded annually. I show less interest to know about the CPF life after age 55. I am more focus on after I set side 166k (min FRS for 2017). The main important pt is that I am still able to withdraw the whole lump sum out if I want after I set aside the min FRS 166k at age 55. The bal CPF money in my OA + SA become my "SUNSET saving acct" or for emergency used or FIXED deposit like any POSB /uob/ocbc saving acct (only 0.3% interest) & still enjoy 2.5% to 5% GUARANTEE high interest rate.

Let assume 1 day before age 55
CPF OA (2.5% to 3.5%) = 400k
CPF SA (4% to 5%) = 466k
CPF MA (4%) = 52k

I day After Age 55
CPF OA (2.5% to 3.5%) = 400k
CPF SA (4% to 5%) = $300k (466k -166k - FRS)
CPF RA (5% to 6%) = 166k (min FRS is 166k for 2017)
CPF MA (4%) = 52k.

At age 55, I am able to withdraw out 400k(OA) + 300k(SA) = 700k one lump sum. But I prefer to leave it in my CPF to continue to enjoy
Guarantee + high interest rate. Maybe I will withdraw 12k yearly from the interest earn from my 300k in my CPF SA (4% tp 5%) to go for USA/Euro etc for annual
holiday. As for the CPF OA, if there is really a big crisis comes, just withdraw partially to invest in beaten down global blue chip stock like Apple , Amazon ,
Alibaba etc or maybe buy ppty. I may even treat as a legacy for my children if I want it. My cousin got 30k cash cheque from CPF board from his father's CPF MA acct after his father passed away.

You & I are going to live longer. it means that we need to save for a longer retirement or you may end up outliving your savings. You may also need to work beyond age 80 if you did not plan your retirement very early (as early as age 25). CPF is one of the best scheme avail. Risk Free + guarantee + high interest rate.


In the early 90s, I bought many 10 & 15 yrs SINGLE PREMIUM INSURANCE. John handcock(now manulife) 15 yrs Single premium 6.7%. Great Eastern Single premium 6.5% , 5.5% , 4.5% etc. My last 5 yrs Single premium I bought was Asia life (cant remember the actual name) @ 2.7% in the early 2000s. With such a high return from insurance Single premium. The "SMART money" would not want to park their money into their CPF earning 3%- 4%+ at that time (90s). They would rather invest in Singapore ppty which our economy is still in a developing stage or stock mkt giving a return of >10%.

Right now , the 10-yrs single premium insurances are giving are projected return of 2%+ to 3%+. Not guarantee. I bought Endowment plan using CPF-OA from Great eastern in 1996. After 18 yrs, the return is est about 3.8%. Much better than CPF-OA 2.5%. When I want to buy the same endowment policy using my CPF-OA. All insurance companies say that they no longer sell endowment products using CPF OA. Why ? Because the insurance companies cannot guarantee the min 2.5% return which CPF-OA is giving now.


Before the Lehman crisis (2008/2009), there is no limit to the amount of cash you can voluntary you can self contribute into your CPF. I myself have self contribute 100k cash into my CPF within a period of 3 mths in the early 2000s. The only problem I face from the LONGWINDED CPF staff is that she trying to persuade me not to as my money will be locked in my CPF till age 55. I always believe that prosperity is not perpetual. During good time, I better lock some $$$ in case I unconsciously spend my hard earned $$$. So CPF is the best place to LOCK it at high interest rate + risk free & guarantee. I also contribute into my sisters CPF for about 4 yrs before I marry.


Between 2002 to 2006 b4 the Lehman crisis (2008/09) , many retail investors + our town council sinking fund bought mini bond 5% from banks + insurances (indirectly link to mini bond). It was selling like a HOT CAKE. I am totally not interested at all as I am doing very well in my HIGH risk product, Accumulators ( I kill you later). When the Lehman crisis happened in 2008/2009, all those mini bond investors were very badly hit. Most of them get ZERO. A TRUST CRISIS has occurred.

When I watched how Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein being sworn in for testimony at a Capitol Hill hearing on why are the bankers selling a "good investment grade product" which is actually a junk product to their clients. Worst of all, GS sold investment grade crap CDO and then later shorted it. GS could have manipulated the rating agencies to give CDO etc AAA ratings. A TRUST CRISIS totally collapse.Till now, many banks analysts etc are flipping “ROTI PRATA” on stock recommendation. Recommend a buy today. Next week a sell.


When the trust collapse. The "SMART" money began to move to CPF in record amount. The richs & the wise ones etc are parking their money into their risk free, high interest rate + guarantee CPF. CPF board immediately put a stop & come out with a Annual CPF limit of $31,450. The maximum amount of mandatory and voluntary contributions that a person (employee or self-employed person) can make in a calendar year is subject to the CPF Annual Limit. 2017 CPF Annual life is $37,770.


There are many people have distrust in our CPF system. Yet they can TRUST their friends , bankers , analysts , Remiser etc on the stock recommendation which they are very badly burnt. They have trust in Wine , Gold buy back scheme , Land banking , AgriWOOD, Maxim FX trader, Planting TREE , Resort investment etc. All their hard earned money is gone through SCAM. I do not know why despite our high degree of their education level. They cant figure out TRUST. The worst is that they dont TRUST our govt on the CPF scheme.


My relative who is a ppty agent has total no trust in CPF min sum. He was doing well during the ppty bull run. But very badly burnt in stock mkt. Easily lost >200k or even more. 2 yrs ago, he invested a US penny stock recommended by a TRUSTED friend. Less than 1 yr, from US$50k, Cut loss left $200. He bought Semb Marine at $3+. Now it is $1.6+. He said the govt is always shifting “GOAL post”. I said a responsible govt has to make changes if needed & will ensure the CPF system is sustainable in long run. The only changes is the payout age from age 60 to 62 to now 65. It may extend to age 67 as we are living beyond age 85. The withdrawal age is still age 55. As long you plan your retirement early , you should able to withdraw a SMALL or BIG LUMP SUM after setting aside the min retirement sum (now is $166k).


Our CPF money is primarily for retirement funding. Not for other purpose like paying for your mortgage loan unless if u have no other choice. When your finance health is much better. You should switch back from CPF to cash. Do not use your CPF-OA for speculative investment.


My suggestion is to meet the full retirement sum (FRS) as young or early as possible by transferring your CPF OA (2.5%) to CPF SA (4%) to min $166k (FRS). Tgt by age 35 or even much earlier. If the person has already met or exceeded the FRS ($166k minimum ), the annual interest earned in your CPF SA (4%) would take care of the increase in FRS ( range 2.5% to 3.5%). You know that 20 yrs later at age 55, your CPF SA of 166k will grow to 380k. FYI, It did not include Your own + employer contribution if you are still working for the next 20 yrs. If included, easy your CPF SA > $500k.

So If you plan it well & as early as possible (age 25) , you are going to retire a millionaire in your CPF acct by the time you reached 62. Time is your
friend (for compounding interest). Make sure you are useful to your company. Try not to complain too much. Work with your colleague. Not against them. Be positive.
Not negative. Never disagree publicly infront of your boss. Never ever badmouth or gossip about your boss.




What is CPF LIFE?
The CPF Lifelong Income For The Elderly (CPF LIFE) Scheme provides Singapore Citizens and PR with a monthly payout for as long as they live. The Singapore CPF Life scheme is a kind of annuity funded by your CPF. It is a very good annuity plan with a delay in the payout age if U want. I don’t think NTUC has this kind or delay annuity payout scheme .

Let say I have $166k at age 55. At age 65, it will grow to est $250k. If I chose not to touch it & delay till age 75.It will grow from $250k to $380k. I don’t think I will touch it if I have excess cash on hand even at age 75. At age 90, it will grow (age 75 to age 90) from 380k to $715k.

My Boss’s wife at age 65 chose to leave her RA untouch as she doesn’t need it. She will continue to earn higher interest rate. I put $7k (“test water”) into my father at OLD age of 84 into his RA acct. His latest CPF statement shown he earned $350 in his RA acct. I will continue to leave it untouch.

So CPF life can become a legacy.( an amount of money or property left to someone in a will). So the Richs or the knowledgable or capable person etc would probably leave the CPF RA $ untouch ttill their death for their children. They are not interested in how the payout is calculated using complex maths formula. It is the same as leaving a ppty for their children which is of course CPF life is a better return than 99 lease hold ppty investment.

[star]

You & I are going to live longer. it means that we need to save for a longer retirement or you may end up outliving your savings. You may also need to work beyond age 80 if you did not plan your retirement very early (as early as age 25). CPF is one of the best scheme avail. Risk Free + guarantee + high interest rate.


In the early 90s, I bought many 10 & 15 yrs SINGLE PREMIUM INSURANCE. John handcock(now manulife) 15 yrs Single premium 6.7%. Great Eastern Single premium 6.5% , 5.5% , 4.5% etc. My last 5 yrs Single premium I bought was Asia life (cant remember the actual name) @ 2.7% in the early 2000s. With such a high return from insurance Single premium. The "SMART money" would not want to park their money into their CPF earning 3%- 4%+ at that time (90s). They would rather invest in Singapore ppty which our economy is still in a developing stage or stock mkt giving a return of >10%.

Right now , the 10-yrs single premium insurances are giving are projected return of 2%+ to 3%+. Not guarantee. I bought Endowment plan using CPF-OA from Great eastern in 1996. After 18 yrs, the return is est about 3.8%. Much better than CPF-OA 2.5%. When I want to buy the same endowment policy using my CPF-OA. All insurance companies say that they no longer sell endowment products using CPF OA. Why ? Because the insurance companies cannot guarantee the min 2.5% return which CPF-OA is giving now.


Before the Lehman crisis (2008/2009), there is no limit to the amount of cash you can voluntary you can self contribute into your CPF. I myself have self contribute 100k cash into my CPF within a period of 3 mths in the early 2000s. The only problem I face from the LONGWINDED CPF staff is that she trying to persuade me not to as my money will be locked in my CPF till age 55. I always believe that prosperity is not perpetual. During good time, I better lock some $$$ in case I unconsciously spend my hard earned $$$. So CPF is the best place to LOCK it at high interest rate + risk free & guarantee. I also contribute into my sisters CPF for about 4 yrs before I marry.


Between 2002 to 2006 b4 the Lehman crisis (2008/09) , many retail investors + our town council sinking fund bought mini bond 5% from banks + insurances (indirectly link to mini bond). It was selling like a HOT CAKE. I am totally not interested at all as I am doing very well in my HIGH risk product, Accumulators ( I kill you later). When the Lehman crisis happened in 2008/2009, all those mini bond investors were very badly hit. Most of them get ZERO. A TRUST CRISIS has occurred.

When I watched how Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein being sworn in for testimony at a Capitol Hill hearing on why are the bankers selling a "good investment grade product" which is actually a junk product to their clients. Worst of all, GS sold investment grade crap CDO and then later shorted it. GS could have manipulated the rating agencies to give CDO etc AAA ratings. A TRUST CRISIS totally collapse.Till now, many banks analysts etc are flipping “ROTI PRATA” on stock recommendation. Recommend a buy today. Next week a sell.


When the trust collapse. The "SMART" money began to move to CPF in record amount. The richs & the wise ones etc are parking their money into their risk free, high interest rate + guarantee CPF. CPF board immediately put a stop & come out with a Annual CPF limit of $31,450. The maximum amount of mandatory and voluntary contributions that a person (employee or self-employed person) can make in a calendar year is subject to the CPF Annual Limit. 2017 CPF Annual life is $37,770.


There are many people have distrust in our CPF system. Yet they can TRUST their friends , bankers , analysts , Remiser etc on the stock recommendation which they are very badly burnt. They have trust in Wine , Gold buy back scheme , Land banking , AgriWOOD, Maxim FX trader, Planting TREE , Resort investment etc. All their hard earned money is gone through SCAM. I do not know why despite our high degree of their education level. They cant figure out TRUST. The worst is that they dont TRUST our govt on the CPF scheme.


My relative who is a ppty agent has total no trust in CPF min sum. He was doing well during the ppty bull run. But very badly burnt in stock mkt. Easily lost >200k or even more. 2 yrs ago, he invested a US penny stock recommended by a TRUSTED friend. Less than 1 yr, from US$50k, Cut loss left $200. He bought Semb Marine at $3+. Now it is $1.6+. He said the govt is always shifting “GOAL post”. I said a responsible govt has to make changes if needed & will ensure the CPF system is sustainable in long run. The only changes is the payout age from age 60 to 62 to now 65. It may extend to age 67 as we are living beyond age 85. The withdrawal age is still age 55. As long you plan your retirement early , you should able to withdraw a SMALL or BIG LUMP SUM after setting aside the min retirement sum (now is $166k).


Our CPF money is primarily for retirement funding. Not for other purpose like paying for your mortgage loan unless if u have no other choice. When your finance health is much better. You should switch back from CPF to cash. Do not use your CPF-OA for speculative investment.


My suggestion is to meet the full retirement sum (FRS) as young or early as possible by transferring your CPF OA (2.5%) to CPF SA (4%) to min $166k (FRS). Tgt by age 35 or even much earlier. If the person has already met or exceeded the FRS ($166k minimum ), the annual interest earned in your CPF SA (4%) would take care of the increase in FRS ( range 2.5% to 3.5%). You know that 20 yrs later at age 55, your CPF SA of 166k will grow to 380k. FYI, It did not include Your own + employer contribution if you are still working for the next 20 yrs. If included, easy your CPF SA > $500k.

So If you plan it well & as early as possible (age 25) , you are going to retire a millionaire in your CPF acct by the time you reached 62. Time is your
friend (for compounding interest). Make sure you are useful to your company. Try not to complain too much. Work with your colleague. Not against them. Be positive.
Not negative. Never disagree publicly infront of your boss. Never ever badmouth or gossip about your boss.




What is CPF LIFE?
The CPF Lifelong Income For The Elderly (CPF LIFE) Scheme provides Singapore Citizens and PR with a monthly payout for as long as they live. The Singapore CPF Life scheme is a kind of annuity funded by your CPF. It is a very good annuity plan with a delay in the payout age if U want. I don’t think NTUC has this kind or delay annuity payout scheme .

Let say I have $166k at age 55. At age 65, it will grow to est $250k. If I chose not to touch it & delay till age 75.It will grow from $250k to $380k. I don’t think I will touch it if I have excess cash on hand even at age 75. At age 90, it will grow (age 75 to age 90) from 380k to $715k.

My Boss’s wife at age 65 chose to leave her RA untouch as she doesn’t need it. She will continue to earn higher interest rate. I put $7k (“test water”) into my father at OLD age of 84 into his RA acct. His latest CPF statement shown he earned $350 in his RA acct. I will continue to leave it untouch.

So CPF life can become a legacy.( an amount of money or property left to someone in a will). So the Richs or the knowledgable or capable person etc would probably leave the CPF RA $ untouch ttill their death for their children. They are not interested in how the payout is calculated using complex maths formula. It is the same as leaving a ppty for their children which is of course CPF life is a better return than 99 lease hold ppty investment.

CPF is good provided the govt is still the same party. If change of party there is a risk...

[Developer]

So If you plan it well & as early as possible (age 25) , you are going to retire a millionaire in your CPF acct by the time you reached 62. Time is your friend (for compounding interest). Make sure you are useful to your company. Try not to complain too much. Work with your colleague. Not against them. Be positive. Not negative. Never disagree publicly infront of your boss. Never ever badmouth or gossip about your boss.

Let say I have $166k at age 55. At age 65, it will grow to est $250k. If I chose not to touch it & delay till age 75.It will grow from $250k to $380k. I don’t think I will touch it if I have excess cash on hand even at age 75. At age 90, it will grow (age 75 to age 90) from 380k to $715k.

So CPF life can become a legacy.( an amount of money or property left to someone in a will). So the Richs or the knowledgable or capable person etc would probably leave the CPF RA $ untouch ttill their death for their children. They are not interested in how the payout is calculated using complex maths formula. It is the same as leaving a ppty for their children which is of course CPF life is a better return than 99 lease hold ppty investment.

Very impressive. Sit back and enjoy life when you grow old. Don't have to bother about the property market or global economy.

You also have the option to set aside $249,000 in the RA. Does the additional $83,000 also enjoy 4% interest? If so, returns even higher.

Thanks for sharing.

[thomastansb]

Thanks.

So basically after 55, they will take 161k from you. Give you 2% returns. And from 65 onwards, give you about 1.2k until you die.

Let's say 2 years after taking the money, you die. CPF will refund you everything minus the 2 years of money you have taken.

Sounds fair to me. Not that bad. The only downside is they keep shifting the goal post.

An explanation

http://www.straitstimes.com/business...-cpf-life-plan

http://www.sharesinvestcoach.com/abo...tandard-plans/

[Arcachon]

Let us pray the printing machine doesn't go into full gear.

Greece pensioner also thinks they can retire but some are so bad that they killed themselves in front of the government office.

Just be aware what is going on.

[teddybear]

laohero,
sounds like minority, need I say more?!

YES. HE IS A BLOODY TROLL.
READING THROUGH THE HISTORY, HE HAD BEEN TROLLING ON THIS TOPIC AND MANY OTHER TOPICS AGAINST SO MANY FORUMMERS (ESPECIALLY NEW MEMBERS) THAT WE ARE LOSING VALUABLE VIEWS FROM THE NEW MEMBERS AS THEY ARE PUT OFF AND TIRED AGAINST SUCH A BLOODY TROLL.

HAKUHO IS ONE OF THE NEW MEMBERS THAT I LIKED TO READ HIS VIEW.
I HOPE HE STAYS IN THIS FORUM. I SUGGEST HE STOP ENGAGING SUCH A BLOODY TROLL AND WASTE HIS OWN TIME ON SUCH A TROLL WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE BALLS TO ASK THE AUTHORITIES ON HIS ALLEGATIONS.

[teddybear]

All those explanations "explained" like never explain because these people don't use their brains, the most critical questions still nobody question and answer, and up to now CPF is not telling:

1) What interest rate CPF is paying for unpaid retirement accounts' balance money after you are over 65 years old?
CPF Board's webpage states that CPF pays about 4% p.a. interest for your retirement money.
However, Hakuho and chestnut claimed that CPF pays 0% interest after you are over 65 years old (and in doing so claimed that CPF is lying with those statements!).

2) What is the accumulated unpaid surplus CPF Life has accumulated now?

3) How CPF derives the Bequest amount to pay out?

4) How much is CPF Board charging as management fees for managing CPF Life?

5) Where is CPF Life's annual financial statements and report?

Unless CPF is transparent about the CPF Life's financial accounts, all those talks and claims by Hakuho, chestnut, Amber etc are just EMPTY talk, speculations, blind claims, just like those hearsay and rumours from coffeeshop talk!

An explanation

http://www.straitstimes.com/business...-cpf-life-plan

http://www.sharesinvestcoach.com/abo...tandard-plans/

[teddybear]

ilikeu,

Don't bullshit lah!

Singaporean's projected Life Expectancy at Birth in 2016 by SingStat can be found here:
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/statistic...tancy-at-birth

They are only projecting Singaporean men to have average life span of 80.6 years old (not 85 years old) and women to be 85 years old.
What this "projected" figure means is that it is skewed heavily to existing younger people (many young foreigners PRs and converted citizens)! So, really, the lifespan of the 1962 cohort who hit 55 years old next year is not that great (definitely less 80.6 years old, and CANNOT be 85 years old)!

However, the only thing I agree with you is that "the actuary is one of smartest person in finance", BUT in a different way, not because they can be trusted but they are so smart that they will ensure that their company managing the life annuity scheme will sure make HUGE PROFITS!

So, to continue using the same dataset originated from LSH’s article.

For the 1972 cohort, the actuary acting for CPF Life determines that the life expectancy as 85. He should live AT LEAST until the age 85.

(please don't argue why 85 and not 90 etc, the actuary is one of smartest person in finance so we should trust his data)

The individual account balance started with $244 k, the drawdown will be $1017 pm over 20 years. Drawdown means from an account NOT earning interest.

BUT.

CPF Life is paying him $1355 pm over the same 20 years, and will continue to pay for life.

Should the individual dies before the age of 85, a bequest shall be paid to his beneficiary.

In other words, CPF Life guarantees a minimum payout of $325 k ($1355 x 12 x 20) FOR THIS COHORT.

[chestnut]

To me, it doesn't bother me. Hahahaha. I don't need CPF life for my retirement funding. Hahahaha. You seem so worked up over CPF's lack of transparency and you are so frustrated. But you are not doing anything about it. Kind of strange????? Don't get so worked up over this matter. No one here is gonna find out for you and you will always be at a loss until you hear from CPF. so I suggest you just let it be lor, if not you will be very Pek Chek. Relax and smell the roses. Don't get upset with things you cannot solve.

All those explanations "explained" like never explain because these people don't use their brains, the most critical questions still nobody question and answer, and up to now CPF is not telling:

1) What interest rate CPF is paying for unpaid retirement accounts' balance money after you are over 65 years old?
CPF Board's webpage states that CPF pays about 4% p.a. interest for your retirement money.
However, Hakuho and chestnut claimed that CPF pays 0% interest after you are over 65 years old (and in doing so claimed that CPF is lying with those statements!).

2) What is the accumulated unpaid surplus CPF Life has accumulated now?

3) How CPF derives the Bequest amount to pay out?

4) How much is CPF Board charging as management fees for managing CPF Life?

5) Where is CPF Life's annual financial statements and report?

Unless CPF is transparent about the CPF Life's financial accounts, all those talks and claims by Hakuho, chestnut, Amber etc are just EMPTY talk, speculations, blind claims, just like those hearsay and rumours from coffeeshop talk!

[teddybear]

If CPF and CPF Life is so great, why I don't see successful investors and business people I know voluntarily throwing any money into CPF?
At least, none that I know who are successful has even contributed a single extra CENT voluntarily!

You & I are going to live longer. it means that we need to save for a longer retirement or you may end up outliving your savings. You may also need to work beyond age 80 if you did not plan your retirement very early (as early as age 25). CPF is one of the best scheme avail. Risk Free + guarantee + high interest rate.


In the early 90s, I bought many 10 & 15 yrs SINGLE PREMIUM INSURANCE. John handcock(now manulife) 15 yrs Single premium 6.7%. Great Eastern Single premium 6.5% , 5.5% , 4.5% etc. My last 5 yrs Single premium I bought was Asia life (cant remember the actual name) @ 2.7% in the early 2000s. With such a high return from insurance Single premium. The "SMART money" would not want to park their money into their CPF earning 3%- 4%+ at that time (90s). They would rather invest in Singapore ppty which our economy is still in a developing stage or stock mkt giving a return of >10%.

Right now , the 10-yrs single premium insurances are giving are projected return of 2%+ to 3%+. Not guarantee. I bought Endowment plan using CPF-OA from Great eastern in 1996. After 18 yrs, the return is est about 3.8%. Much better than CPF-OA 2.5%. When I want to buy the same endowment policy using my CPF-OA. All insurance companies say that they no longer sell endowment products using CPF OA. Why ? Because the insurance companies cannot guarantee the min 2.5% return which CPF-OA is giving now.


Before the Lehman crisis (2008/2009), there is no limit to the amount of cash you can voluntary you can self contribute into your CPF. I myself have self contribute 100k cash into my CPF within a period of 3 mths in the early 2000s. The only problem I face from the LONGWINDED CPF staff is that she trying to persuade me not to as my money will be locked in my CPF till age 55. I always believe that prosperity is not perpetual. During good time, I better lock some $$$ in case I unconsciously spend my hard earned $$$. So CPF is the best place to LOCK it at high interest rate + risk free & guarantee. I also contribute into my sisters CPF for about 4 yrs before I marry.


Between 2002 to 2006 b4 the Lehman crisis (2008/09) , many retail investors + our town council sinking fund bought mini bond 5% from banks + insurances (indirectly link to mini bond). It was selling like a HOT CAKE. I am totally not interested at all as I am doing very well in my HIGH risk product, Accumulators ( I kill you later). When the Lehman crisis happened in 2008/2009, all those mini bond investors were very badly hit. Most of them get ZERO. A TRUST CRISIS has occurred.

When I watched how Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein being sworn in for testimony at a Capitol Hill hearing on why are the bankers selling a "good investment grade product" which is actually a junk product to their clients. Worst of all, GS sold investment grade crap CDO and then later shorted it. GS could have manipulated the rating agencies to give CDO etc AAA ratings. A TRUST CRISIS totally collapse.Till now, many banks analysts etc are flipping “ROTI PRATA” on stock recommendation. Recommend a buy today. Next week a sell.


When the trust collapse. The "SMART" money began to move to CPF in record amount. The richs & the wise ones etc are parking their money into their risk free, high interest rate + guarantee CPF. CPF board immediately put a stop & come out with a Annual CPF limit of $31,450. The maximum amount of mandatory and voluntary contributions that a person (employee or self-employed person) can make in a calendar year is subject to the CPF Annual Limit. 2017 CPF Annual life is $37,770.


There are many people have distrust in our CPF system. Yet they can TRUST their friends , bankers , analysts , Remiser etc on the stock recommendation which they are very badly burnt. They have trust in Wine , Gold buy back scheme , Land banking , AgriWOOD, Maxim FX trader, Planting TREE , Resort investment etc. All their hard earned money is gone through SCAM. I do not know why despite our high degree of their education level. They cant figure out TRUST. The worst is that they dont TRUST our govt on the CPF scheme.


My relative who is a ppty agent has total no trust in CPF min sum. He was doing well during the ppty bull run. But very badly burnt in stock mkt. Easily lost >200k or even more. 2 yrs ago, he invested a US penny stock recommended by a TRUSTED friend. Less than 1 yr, from US$50k, Cut loss left $200. He bought Semb Marine at $3+. Now it is $1.6+. He said the govt is always shifting “GOAL post”. I said a responsible govt has to make changes if needed & will ensure the CPF system is sustainable in long run. The only changes is the payout age from age 60 to 62 to now 65. It may extend to age 67 as we are living beyond age 85. The withdrawal age is still age 55. As long you plan your retirement early , you should able to withdraw a SMALL or BIG LUMP SUM after setting aside the min retirement sum (now is $166k).


Our CPF money is primarily for retirement funding. Not for other purpose like paying for your mortgage loan unless if u have no other choice. When your finance health is much better. You should switch back from CPF to cash. Do not use your CPF-OA for speculative investment.


My suggestion is to meet the full retirement sum (FRS) as young or early as possible by transferring your CPF OA (2.5%) to CPF SA (4%) to min $166k (FRS). Tgt by age 35 or even much earlier. If the person has already met or exceeded the FRS ($166k minimum ), the annual interest earned in your CPF SA (4%) would take care of the increase in FRS ( range 2.5% to 3.5%). You know that 20 yrs later at age 55, your CPF SA of 166k will grow to 380k. FYI, It did not include Your own + employer contribution if you are still working for the next 20 yrs. If included, easy your CPF SA > $500k.

So If you plan it well & as early as possible (age 25) , you are going to retire a millionaire in your CPF acct by the time you reached 62. Time is your
friend (for compounding interest). Make sure you are useful to your company. Try not to complain too much. Work with your colleague. Not against them. Be positive.
Not negative. Never disagree publicly infront of your boss. Never ever badmouth or gossip about your boss.




What is CPF LIFE?
The CPF Lifelong Income For The Elderly (CPF LIFE) Scheme provides Singapore Citizens and PR with a monthly payout for as long as they live. The Singapore CPF Life scheme is a kind of annuity funded by your CPF. It is a very good annuity plan with a delay in the payout age if U want. I don’t think NTUC has this kind or delay annuity payout scheme .

Let say I have $166k at age 55. At age 65, it will grow to est $250k. If I chose not to touch it & delay till age 75.It will grow from $250k to $380k. I don’t think I will touch it if I have excess cash on hand even at age 75. At age 90, it will grow (age 75 to age 90) from 380k to $715k.

My Boss’s wife at age 65 chose to leave her RA untouch as she doesn’t need it. She will continue to earn higher interest rate. I put $7k (“test water”) into my father at OLD age of 84 into his RA acct. His latest CPF statement shown he earned $350 in his RA acct. I will continue to leave it untouch.

So CPF life can become a legacy.( an amount of money or property left to someone in a will). So the Richs or the knowledgable or capable person etc would probably leave the CPF RA $ untouch ttill their death for their children. They are not interested in how the payout is calculated using complex maths formula. It is the same as leaving a ppty for their children which is of course CPF life is a better return than 99 lease hold ppty investment.

[teddybear]

I don't need CPF Life payout to survive, otherwise I will take it up with CPF and even the Government for unpaid interests!

However, what I cannot tolerate are all the LIES and FAKE NEWS and HALF-TRUTH being spread around, and since I am very FREE now I just like to poke FUN of these LIARs and burst their bubbles and LIES............... Quite fun isn't it to NAB the LIARS and BULLSHITTERS when we have nothing better to do?!

To me, it doesn't bother me. Hahahaha. I don't need CPF life for my retirement funding. Hahahaha. You seem so worked up over CPF's lack of transparency and you are so frustrated. But you are not doing anything about it. Kind of strange????? Don't get so worked up over this matter. No one here is gonna find out for you and you will always be at a loss until you hear from CPF. so I suggest you just let it be lor, if not you will be very Pek Chek. Relax and smell the roses. Don't get upset with things you cannot solve.

[thomastansb]

I know a few people (one of them is my boss) who really do max. top up to CPF. And they transferred money to their SA as well.

I don't know why they do it (because personally I feel CPF is not reliable due to its shifting goal post) but just want to share that people are doing that; contrary to your statement. Maybe they are not the kind of successful people that you are talking about but they are all SVP and ED position in banks so easily top 0.5% earners in SG.

If CPF and CPF Life is so great, why I don't see successful investors and business people I know voluntarily throwing any money into CPF?
At least, none that I know who are successful has even contributed a single extra CENT voluntarily!

[Amber Woods]

All those explanations "explained" like never explain because these people don't use their brains, the most critical questions still nobody question and answer, and up to now CPF is not telling:

1) What interest rate CPF is paying for unpaid retirement accounts' balance money after you are over 65 years old? After 65, all your money in RA will be transferred to AP (Annuity Premium fund) if you choose the Standard Plan. Like any annuity plan, your return is based on the payout plan which you have to figure out. CPF Board only states that the interest is paid together with the payout which is not transparent. If you choose the Basic Plan, the balance in your RA will continue to receive 4% as stated and this plan is more transparent.
CPF Board's webpage states that CPF pays about 4% p.a. interest for your retirement money. This is correct if you choose the Basic Plan. If you choose the Standard Plan, then the interest is paid as part of the payout and we do not know how much is the interest since the money is pooled together with the AP fund.
However, Hakuho and chestnut claimed that CPF pays 0% interest after you are over 65 years old (and in doing so claimed that CPF is lying with those statements!).

2) What is the accumulated unpaid surplus CPF Life has accumulated now? Only God's know

3) How CPF derives the Bequest amount to pay out? Like any annuity plan, we need to evaluate the payout and decide if it makes financial sense

4) How much is CPF Board charging as management fees for managing CPF Life? Only God's know

5) Where is CPF Life's annual financial statements and report? God's know

Unless CPF is transparent about the CPF Life's financial accounts, all those talks and claims by Hakuho, chestnut, Amber etc are just EMPTY talk, speculations, blind claims, just like those hearsay and rumours from coffeeshop talk! We can only discuss base on information we know or base on information CPF Board wants us to know

--------

[Amber Woods]

I don't need CPF Life payout to survive, otherwise I will take it up with CPF and even the Government for unpaid interests!

However, what I cannot tolerate are all the LIES and FAKE NEWS and HALF-TRUTH being spread around, and since I am very FREE now I just like to poke FUN of these LIARs and burst their bubbles and LIES............... Quite fun isn't it to NAB the LIARS and BULLSHITTERS when we have nothing better to do?!

If you are Singaporean or PR, you will need to choose your CPF Life Plan like it or not. It is in your interest to choose the right plan because your money is in the government's hand. You must as well get the best out of the scheme just like the way you manage your other financial instruments with attached constraints.

No one in this threat is a liar. They are either misinformed or ignorant. Unlike property where there are many liars because of vested interest.

[laohero]

laohero,
sounds like minority, need I say more?!

OF COURSE IT IS MINORITY IN YOUR COCK EYES.

[Kelonguni]

I am really not sure about CPF because have seen my parents been directly or indirectly negatively impacted by CPF and cash equivalents.

I am pro other growth instruments like stocks and property as their percentage gains have never fallen below 4-5 per annum.

Ultimately, it all boils down to individual preference. Whoever choose which path, most importantly, at the end of the road, don't complain.

[teddybear]

Just be careful because all those talks about 4%, 2.5% etc will also gone up into smoke once they switch the interest rate peg to to 10-year bond rate (which they had announced long ago but somehow seems to be delaying for quite a few years now).................

I am really not sure about CPF because have seen my parents been directly or indirectly negatively impacted by CPF and cash equivalents.

I am pro other growth instruments like stocks and property as their percentage gains have never fallen below 4-5 per annum.

Ultimately, it all boils down to individual preference. Whoever choose which path, most importantly, at the end of the road, don't complain.

[teddybear]

All those "Only God's know" answers I will be very curious to know!!!!!!!!!!
So many questions that "Only God's know", I also don't know why there is need to hide them? I am not the first one nor am I going to be the last to ask these questions! (all these questions are hot topics in coffeeshop talk!)

I can bet that Hakuho, chestnut, cbsh, etc all also don't know the answer to these so important questions!

All those explanations "explained" like never explain because these people don't use their brains, the most critical questions still nobody question and answer, and up to now CPF is not telling:

1) What interest rate CPF is paying for unpaid retirement accounts' balance money after you are over 65 years old? After 65, all your money in RA will be transferred to AP (Annuity Premium fund) if you choose the Standard Plan. Like any annuity plan, your return is based on the payout plan which you have to figure out. CPF Board only states that the interest is paid together with the payout which is not transparent. If you choose the Basic Plan, the balance in your RA will continue to receive 4% as stated and this plan is more transparent.
CPF Board's webpage states that CPF pays about 4% p.a. interest for your retirement money. This is correct if you choose the Basic Plan. If you choose the Standard Plan, then the interest is paid as part of the payout and we do not know how much is the interest since the money is pooled together with the AP fund.
However, Hakuho and chestnut claimed that CPF pays 0% interest after you are over 65 years old (and in doing so claimed that CPF is lying with those statements!).

2) What is the accumulated unpaid surplus CPF Life has accumulated now? Only God's know

3) How CPF derives the Bequest amount to pay out? Like any annuity plan, we need to evaluate the payout and decide if it makes financial sense

4) How much is CPF Board charging as management fees for managing CPF Life? Only God's know

5) Where is CPF Life's annual financial statements and report? God's know

Unless CPF is transparent about the CPF Life's financial accounts, all those talks and claims by Hakuho, chestnut, Amber etc are just EMPTY talk, speculations, blind claims, just like those hearsay and rumours from coffeeshop talk! We can only discuss base on information we know or base on information CPF Board wants us to know

--------

[teddybear]

Got lah, that BIGGEST LIAR and BULLSHITTER - minority!

Caught him purposely LIE so many times already!

If you are Singaporean or PR, you will need to choose your CPF Life Plan like it or not. It is in your interest to choose the right plan because your money is in the government's hand. You must as well get the best out of the scheme just like the way you manage your other financial instruments with attached constraints.

No one in this threat is a liar. They are either misinformed or ignorant. Unlike property where there are many liars because of vested interest.

[tonymontana]

I know a few people (one of them is my boss) who really do max. top up to CPF. And they transferred money to their SA as well.

I don't know why they do it (because personally I feel CPF is not reliable due to its shifting goal post) but just want to share that people are doing that; contrary to your statement. Maybe they are not the kind of successful people that you are talking about but they are all SVP and ED position in banks so easily top 0.5% earners in SG.

not sure what the big argument here is: surely it depends on perspective and personal situation.

if i had a lot of Cash on hand, of course i'd throw in whatever to max out my CPF / Retirement funds because it is a good deal.

However, if i had only 310k cash and 200k cpf, and i have found a good deal (say a property at 600k which i intend to rent out for 4% returns, example only) whereby i need to place a 50% DP (300k-lets ignore the taxes and etc for simplicity sake). I wouldn't chuck in 300k cash and have only 10k on hand, i'd withdraw 100k from CPF to swing the deal. simply because I'd like some liquidity as the cpf funds are more difficult to draw out.

But if i had 1M stashed away doing nothing (or an enbloc windfall, etc) , then i wouln'dt touch my CPF.

Another situation is if say I was a very conservative person or am going to retire soon, then I might not go for the property (since there is an element of risk) and probably a good idea to max out my retirement fund.

so, really, the answer is "it depends on the person's situation". No absolute right or wrong.