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Thread: OCBC Home loan increase by 1%

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    Angry OCBC Home loan increase by 1%

    Hi, I have taken housing loan from OCBC on variable rate linked to Board rate and the same was 4.5% when I had taken home loan.. My Interest rate is as follows :-

    Year 1 1.28%
    Year 2 1.58%
    Year 3 1.88%

    I am in my first year of loan and have completed 6 months. I have got letter from them dated 15th April where they have increased my interest rate to 2.28%.. This is significant 1% increase and has pissed me off.

    Can any one confirm if they have received similar letter. Also if you have experience from past what are my options.

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    Bank reserved the right to adjust board Rate. Check the lock in period. Check Repricing options. Else refinance. Not unexpected when sibor was 0.5 to 1.5 and 1 now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keyur View Post
    Hi, I have taken housing loan from OCBC on variable rate linked to Board rate and the same was 4.5% when I had taken home loan.. My Interest rate is as follows :-

    Year 1 1.28%
    Year 2 1.58%
    Year 3 1.88%

    I am in my first year of loan and have completed 6 months. I have got letter from them dated 15th April where they have increased my interest rate to 2.28%.. This is significant 1% increase and has pissed me off.

    Can any one confirm if they have received similar letter. Also if you have experience from past what are my options.
    never take variable rate...as the word says it can vary.😱 no other options, wait for 1.5 years and reprice again... The penalty for changing is not worth it,.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keyur View Post
    Hi, I have taken housing loan from OCBC on variable rate linked to Board rate and the same was 4.5% when I had taken home loan.. My Interest rate is as follows :-

    Year 1 1.28%
    Year 2 1.58%
    Year 3 1.88%

    I am in my first year of loan and have completed 6 months. I have got letter from them dated 15th April where they have increased my interest rate to 2.28%.. This is significant 1% increase and has pissed me off.

    Can any one confirm if they have received similar letter. Also if you have experience from past what are my options.
    yup, the word variable said it all. if it was fixed rate then they can't change it.

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    I think many of us here already iterated this before:
    NEVER EVER take BOARD RATE loan!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It is NOT the problem with "VARIABLE", but Banks can change BOARD RATE any time they like unilaterally and the so-called "Board Rate" can be different between banks and even between different people at different time!!!!!!!!

    Too late for you to know now anyway, but your options now are:

    1) Check whether are you locked in and when your lock-in expire?

    2) If you are still in lock-in, see whether can re-price to SIBOR or Home Loan Rate pegged package with same bank.

    3) If you are not in lock-in, better still, you can refinance for better deal and change to SIBOR or Home loan rate pegged package with any other bank.

    Remember: NEVER ever take a home loan with BOARD RATE again, regardless of whatever shit or nonsensical reason (like it is more stable) that your bank or mortgage agents told you!!!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by keyur View Post
    Hi, I have taken housing loan from OCBC on variable rate linked to Board rate and the same was 4.5% when I had taken home loan.. My Interest rate is as follows :-

    Year 1 1.28%
    Year 2 1.58%
    Year 3 1.88%

    I am in my first year of loan and have completed 6 months. I have got letter from them dated 15th April where they have increased my interest rate to 2.28%.. This is significant 1% increase and has pissed me off.

    Can any one confirm if they have received similar letter. Also if you have experience from past what are my options.

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    i remembered bank sales pple like to say something like "our board rate has not changed in the last x number of years".

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    Quote Originally Posted by bargain hunter View Post
    i remembered bank sales pple like to say something like "our board rate has not changed in the last x number of years".
    These young sales people know nothing, they may not have taken any loans befo and never experience the agony of increasing interest

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryhk View Post
    These young sales people know nothing, they may not have taken any loans befo and never experience the agony of increasing interest
    more like they r keen to close the deal and do not bother with whatever agony borrowers face in future!

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    Even if one takes a SIBOR based housing loan, the bank can also increase its margin. I know of a case where the bank informed the borrower that the rate increased from SIBOR+0.7% to SIBOR+0.9%. Only thing borrowers can do is to refinance as soon as lock in period is over. The best is to take loan with no lock in period.

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    Post OCBC Home loan increase by 1%

    Thank you for suggestion. I have contacted Bank and trying to re-price using SIBOR Rate Plus. However, I am surprised while checking online don't see Board rate increase of 1% i.e. from 4.5% to 5.5%. Let me clarify with Bank. However, has anyone else got similar increase ?

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    I think many of us here already iterated this before:
    NEVER EVER take BOARD RATE loan!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It is NOT the problem with "VARIABLE", but Banks can change BOARD RATE any time they like unilaterally and the so-called "Board Rate" can be different between banks and even between different people at different time!!!!!!!!

    Too late for you to know now anyway, but your options now are:

    1) Check whether are you locked in and when your lock-in expire?

    2) If you are still in lock-in, see whether can re-price to SIBOR or Home Loan Rate pegged package with same bank.

    3) If you are not in lock-in, better still, you can refinance for better deal and change to SIBOR or Home loan rate pegged package with any other bank.

    Remember: NEVER ever take a home loan with BOARD RATE again, regardless of whatever shit or nonsensical reason (like it is more stable) that your bank or mortgage agents told you!!!!!!!!!

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    It was Hybrid and not variable.. I can understand some increase but 1% increase is significant.. There is no rationale for this.

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    Somebody mentioned this before.

    The board rate is the most kelong one. Everyone has a different board rate.

    It's good for starters. In the long run not much difference lah. I suspect no lock in also or clause to refinance if raise rates. Check with the bank.

    Quote Originally Posted by keyur View Post
    It was Hybrid and not variable.. I can understand some increase but 1% increase is significant.. There is no rationale for this.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    UOB and OCBC are the best player in board rate loans.
    The sales pitch is pretty standard 'Our board rate never increase for the past X years.'
    Your first 3 years is only 1.xx%
    Followed by handwritten on the rates for 1-3 years at the side
    1st year: 1.2x
    2nd year: 1.3x
    3rd year 1.6x

    Very clever when the rate supposed to be;

    3.X below board rate

    You're pretty stuck for the next 1.5 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pynchmail View Post
    Even if one takes a SIBOR based housing loan, the bank can also increase its margin. I know of a case where the bank informed the borrower that the rate increased from SIBOR+0.7% to SIBOR+0.9%.
    is this the Citibank case again ? you should get your friend to complain to MAS strongly.

    To be fair, no one else has ever done this on SIBOR/SOR rates. It's only Citibank.

    SIBOR/SOR packages are still the most transparent/fair floating rate packages today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keyur View Post
    Hi, I have taken housing loan from OCBC on variable rate linked to Board rate and the same was 4.5% when I had taken home loan.. My Interest rate is as follows :-

    Year 1 1.28%
    Year 2 1.58%
    Year 3 1.88%

    I am in my first year of loan and have completed 6 months. I have got letter from them dated 15th April where they have increased my interest rate to 2.28%.. This is significant 1% increase and has pissed me off.

    Can any one confirm if they have received similar letter. Also if you have experience from past what are my options.
    Yup. Happened to me too. Now 2.28%.
    Just refinanced with them, and 3 months later, they chut pattern. Should have gone for fixed..or a different bank.

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    OCBC. I think got escape clause lah.


    Quote Originally Posted by amk View Post
    is this the Citibank case again ? you should get your friend to complain to MAS strongly.

    To be fair, no one else has ever done this on SIBOR/SOR rates. It's only Citibank.

    SIBOR/SOR packages are still the most transparent/fair floating rate packages today.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    Escape clause or not, as long as the clause is not written in the main loan document in a clear and un-ambiguous way, there is room to complain to MAS (as it is clear the "practise" is to mislead, just like the bank counter-girls trying to sell "structured deposits" saying they are "no difference from fixed deposits".......).................

    While DBS in HK need to compensate their clients, am I right to say that DBS in SG had gotten away with it with no penalty for selling the same minibonds / structured deposits in SG?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    OCBC. I think got escape clause lah.

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    The loan letter of offer may contain words such as "..for the avoidance of doubts, the bank may without notice at anytime from time to time review and adjust any interest rates..."

    The above type words may be found in loan offer letters regardless of whether SIBOR, board rate or FD rate based. Please check yours and share with us here whether yours contain such wordings and which bank is it. I know OCBC offer letters have such wordings.

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    For Board rate loan, the board rate itself is the interest rate, and since the board rate is set by the bank itself unilaterally as they like, people taking board rate loan have no recourse.

    However, the case is different for SIBOR-pegged or FDR-pegged loans. Because such loans come with "interest rate + spread" component. Hence, it is clear to us that the "review and adjust any interest rates..." refers to the SIBOR rate or FDR-pegged rate, not the spread (i.e. +X%).
    If they are referring to the spread, they would have to word it un-ambiguously as "bank may without notice at anytime from time to time review and adjust the SPREAD %...". Failing to do so, they have no right to change the spread, since in wording it was always written as e.g. "loan interest rate at SIBOR + X%" (note the "+X%" is a fixed number!) and if they do try to change the spread % they are just bluffing you and see whether people are stupid enough to allow them to do whatever they like without challenging them............

    I would believe that MAS would do something if people complaint directly to MAS and make enough noise and raise enough awareness for everybody in Singapore and the world to know about this particular bank that makes the first precedent in trying to unilaterally change the fixed spread despite NOT being worded into their loan contract......

    Quote Originally Posted by Pynchmail View Post
    The loan letter of offer may contain words such as "..for the avoidance of doubts, the bank may without notice at anytime from time to time review and adjust any interest rates..."

    The above type words may be found in loan offer letters regardless of whether SIBOR, board rate or FD rate based. Please check yours.
    Last edited by teddybear; 25-04-16 at 21:50.

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    Which bank are you referring to?

    For people who are suffering from bank(s) changing fixed spread unilaterally despite not being worded into the loan contract, they should:

    1) Complain to MAS

    2) Write letter to Forum of Straits Times etc (and spell out the name of the bank clearly).

    3) Post such news on online forums like CondoSingapore and spell out the name of the bank clearly to let all of us here know which bank(s) is doing that. This will help others to avoid doing business with those bank! Not only will they lose mortgage loan business, they will also lose priority/privilege/private banking / wealth management business as well! Who will trust such bank who try to take advantage of their client and without sticking to their side of a contract??? I definitely won't!

    There is no need to be scared of naming the bank if what you are stating are facts (because I know some people so scared to name the bank / entity that are doing bad things to them and I don't know why they so scared for what for telling the TRUTH???)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pynchmail View Post
    Even if one takes a SIBOR based housing loan, the bank can also increase its margin. I know of a case where the bank informed the borrower that the rate increased from SIBOR+0.7% to SIBOR+0.9%. Only thing borrowers can do is to refinance as soon as lock in period is over. The best is to take loan with no lock in period.
    Last edited by teddybear; 25-04-16 at 22:06.

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    Salute Teddybear.

    Hope the banks learn from this and deliver on at least 1 type of interest rate they promote strongly.

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Which bank are you referring to?

    For people who are suffering from bank(s) changing fixed spread unilaterally despite not being worded into the loan contract, they should:

    1) Complain to MAS

    2) Write letter to Forum of Straits Times etc (and spell out the name of the bank clearly).

    3) Post such news on online forums like CondoSingapore and spell out the name of the bank clearly to let all of us here know which bank(s) is doing that. This will help others to avoid doing business with those bank! Not only will they lose mortgage loan business, they will also lose priority/privilege/private banking / wealth management business as well! Who will trust such bank who try to take advantage of their client and without sticking to their side of a contract??? I definitely won't!

    There is no need to be scared of naming the bank if what you are stating are facts (because I know some people so scared to name the bank / entity that are doing bad things to them and I don't know why they so scared for what for telling the TRUTH???)
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    The banks cannot revise the spread (if it is sibor + spread) unless there is a market disruption clause, which is common in facility agreements of other asset class. But to invoke the market disruption clause would be very rare and difficult and I only saw it successful done for a German bank, during the Lehman crisis, and the borrower has no choice but to pay a higher financing cost.

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    Yes but we also know that Citibank had done that last year - unilaterally changed the spread!!! (It was reported in Chinese Newspaper if I didn't not remember wrongly)! And the only reason is to increase their profit and nothing else? 2015 is not Global Financial Crisis of 2008...

    Anyway I vote with my both hands and feet - I would not have any dealing with Citibank again, NEVER!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikeu View Post
    The banks cannot revise the spread (if it is sibor + spread) unless there is a market disruption clause, which is common in facility agreements of other asset class. But to invoke the market disruption clause would be very rare and difficult and I only saw it successful done for a German bank, during the Lehman crisis, and the borrower has no choice but to pay a higher financing cost.

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    Had not seen the loan agreement... Maybe they have squeeze in some clauses that gives them the reasons to do so....


    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Yes but we also know that Citibank had done that last year - unilaterally changed the spread!!! (It was reported in Chinese Newspaper if I didn't not remember wrongly)! And the only reason is to increase their profit and nothing else? 2015 is not Global Financial Crisis of 2008...

    Anyway I vote with my both hands and feet - I would not have any dealing with Citibank again, NEVER!

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    Thanks for bringing to our attention the piece of news published by SPH Straits Times.

    So, it seems to me that according to the article:

    1) MAS made empty talk and refused to take any action?
    "The Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) said it does not regulate the setting of interest rates but the banks must provide clear and relevant information on products and services, said a spokesman, adding that MAS has asked Citibank to review the customer feedback received."

    So did MAS made any follow up to check whether Citibank take any satisfactory action after the feedback by Citibank's affected customers??? If they did, what has MAS done???

    2) CASE also made empty talk and refused to take any concrete action to help?
    "Mr Seah Seng Choon, executive director of the Consumers Association of Singapore, said: "We are of the view that the banks should justify such rate changes clearly to the affected consumers. Such changes will not be fair to consumers if there is no justification to do so.""

    So now consumers unfairly bullied by Citibank, what has CASE done to help the affected consumers???

    3) And Citibank's Mr Peng Chun Hsien, Citibank Singapore's head of secured finance solutions are giving "reasons" like:

    a) "current revision is only applicable to clients outside the lock-in period".

    b) Mr Peng told The Straits Times: "The word 'throughout' is a term the industry uses, and refers to the tenure and period that we are covering."

    c) He added that affected customers had been given sufficient notice so that the process is transparent and they can opt to refinance their loans. Mr Peng noted that the overall rate is still fairly competitive.

    d) Citibank said it undertook "careful consideration of factors including prevailing market conditions" before making the move.

    To me, statement "(a)" made by Citibank's Mr Peng is IRRELEVANT because regardless of lock-in period or not, whatever changes Citibank made has to be according to the loan contract, not whether the loan is outside lock-in period or not.

    To me, statement "(b)" made by Citibank's Mr Peng is ILLOGICAL since if the word 'throughout' refers to the tenure and period that the loan covers, that mean actually Citibank has no right to change the fixed spread!!!

    Again, statement "(c)" made by Citibank's Mr Peng is again IRRELEVANT because it doesn't matter whether Citibank's customers had been given sufficient notice or not because FACT is, if Citibank is not abidding by its side of the contract, the whole process "SMELLS"! (and not "transparent" as claimed by Mr Peng).

    Again, statement "(d)" made by Citibank's Mr Peng is again IRRELEVANT because who cares what consideration they made before they don't abide by their side of the contract???

    Look at the 4 statements (a) to (d) made by Citibank's Mr Peng to justify increasing the spread % and I cannot find anything that Mr Peng points to in the loan contract to justify increasing the spread. This does seem very SMELLY SMELLY indeed!!! Seems like Citibank does not have anything in the loan contract to backup their unilateral increase of the loan spread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    So what are the truth? These statements according to ST are the truth:

    i) "Finance industry experts say reviewing spreads is standard bank practice, but in practice, changing the spread during the loan period is uncommon. The Straits Times understands that banks such as United Overseas Bank and OCBC Bank have not increased the spreads. A DBS Bank spokesman said DBS and POSB have not varied spreads while under an existing agreement with customers. He said an 0.85 per cent spread used to be the market rate but some banks have lowered it to attract customers."

    None of the banks, other than Citibank, had unilaterally hiked the spread (that is is supposed to be fixed according to the loan contract)!!!!!!!!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Pynchmail View Post
    Last edited by teddybear; 25-04-16 at 23:32.

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    You can can read some discussions here (click on the link)..........

    Some how, don't know why, the link to hardwarezone where was a lot of discussions is dead (despite the thread being just about 1+ year old)!!!!!!! Very strange indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Anyway, I read that 1 of the loan affected is the Citibank Home Saver Loan with SIBOR + 0.70% throughout the loan period (you can see the flyer attached here).........


    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Thanks for bringing to our attention the piece of news published by SPH Straits Times.

    So, it seems to me that according to the article:

    1) MAS made empty talk and refused to take any action?
    "The Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) said it does not regulate the setting of interest rates but the banks must provide clear and relevant information on products and services, said a spokesman, adding that MAS has asked Citibank to review the customer feedback received."

    So did MAS made any follow up to check whether Citibank take any satisfactory action after the feedback by Citibank's affected customers??? If they did, what has MAS done???

    2) CASE also made empty talk and refused to take any concrete action to help?
    "Mr Seah Seng Choon, executive director of the Consumers Association of Singapore, said: "We are of the view that the banks should justify such rate changes clearly to the affected consumers. Such changes will not be fair to consumers if there is no justification to do so.""

    So now consumers unfairly bullied by Citibank, what has CASE done to help the affected consumers???

    3) And Citibank's Mr Peng Chun Hsien, Citibank Singapore's head of secured finance solutions are giving "reasons" like:

    a) "current revision is only applicable to clients outside the lock-in period".

    b) Mr Peng told The Straits Times: "The word 'throughout' is a term the industry uses, and refers to the tenure and period that we are covering."

    c) He added that affected customers had been given sufficient notice so that the process is transparent and they can opt to refinance their loans. Mr Peng noted that the overall rate is still fairly competitive.

    d) Citibank said it undertook "careful consideration of factors including prevailing market conditions" before making the move.

    To me, statement "(a)" made by Citibank's Mr Peng is IRRELEVANT because regardless of lock-in period or not, whatever changes Citibank made has to be according to the loan contract, not whether the loan is outside lock-in period or not.

    To me, statement "(b)" made by Citibank's Mr Peng is ILLOGICAL since if the word 'throughout' refers to the tenure and period that the loan covers, that mean actually Citibank has no right to change the fixed spread!!!

    Again, statement "(c)" made by Citibank's Mr Peng is again IRRELEVANT because it doesn't matter whether Citibank's customers had been given sufficient notice or not because FACT is, if Citibank is not abidding by its side of the contract, the whole process "SMELLS"! (and not "transparent" as claimed by Mr Peng).

    Again, statement "(d)" made by Citibank's Mr Peng is again IRRELEVANT because who cares what consideration they made before they don't abide by their side of the contract???

    Look at the 4 statements (a) to (d) made by Citibank's Mr Peng to justify increasing the spread % and I cannot find anything that Mr Peng points to in the loan contract to justify increasing the spread. This does seem very SMELLY SMELLY indeed!!! Seems like Citibank does not have anything in the loan contract to backup their unilateral increase of the loan spread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    So what are the truth? These statements according to ST are the truth:

    i) "Finance industry experts say reviewing spreads is standard bank practice, but in practice, changing the spread during the loan period is uncommon. The Straits Times understands that banks such as United Overseas Bank and OCBC Bank have not increased the spreads. A DBS Bank spokesman said DBS and POSB have not varied spreads while under an existing agreement with customers. He said an 0.85 per cent spread used to be the market rate but some banks have lowered it to attract customers."

    None of the banks, other than Citibank, had unilaterally hiked the spread (that is is supposed to be fixed according to the loan contract)!!!!!!!!!!

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    The flyer said nothing about Citibank having the right to change the spread (which was fixed in number "+0.70%")!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    You can can read some discussions here (click on the link)..........

    Some how, don't know why, the link to hardwarezone where was a lot of discussions is dead (despite the thread being just about 1+ year old)!!!!!!! Very strange indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Anyway, I read that 1 of the loan affected is the Citibank Home Saver Loan with SIBOR + 0.70% throughout the loan period (you can see the flyer attached here).........

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    Every contract from bank has the ultimate disclaimer.

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    Yes, but the main contract over-rides the disclaimer which cannot stand up to scrutiny under the fair consumer act..........

    Quote Originally Posted by newbie11 View Post
    Every contract from bank has the ultimate disclaimer.

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