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Thread: Paya Lebar Quarter

  1. #91
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    got nice biryani and cheap wet marketing nearby and hari raya period very happening there

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMCK View Post
    got nice biryani and cheap wet marketing nearby and hari raya period very happening there
    Every Sunday, foreign maids and workers gather there for picnic, similar to the scene at Little India.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    Actually, the number of parking lots versus number of PPR units is a mismatched and its deliberate. They want it to be a car-lite area. There is even a car sharing scheme set aside to PLQ to alleviate transportation (for those who insist on cars and not MRT). Duo also has insufficient car lots for owners, so you got to bid for it too.

    I seriously do not encourage driving in Paya Lebar Central unless you are going there to run quick errands or better still, collect rent.

    On a side note, more news on Paya Lebar Central today! SingPost Centre building will be managed by CapitaLand Mall. More supermarkets, cinemas, shops (e-commerce ones too) and eateries to rejuvenate this area. Based on my calculation, it is about 3 mins walk from PLQ offices and mall. PPR residents will be about 5 mins walk away. Combined it is about 70% GFA of Suntec City Mall (888,000 sq ft): 269,000 sq ft for SingPost Mall plus 340,000 sq ft for PLQ Mall entertainment space. This mall will be opened later part of 2017.

    http://www.straitstimes.com/business...ingpost-centre

    The real tipping point will be a 'specialised' commercial area or zone not found anywhere in Singapore which may be built there. Based on the land size around SingPost Mall area, it is primed for such a development. For example, Biopolis at One North. I am also hoping a hotel will be built there soon. This is mentioned by Tan Chuan Jin during PL Square opening.

    Lets see what else will be announced in this up and coming area.

    2 cents,
    PropVestor
    Perhaps we already get used to having a carpark lot for every unit purchased. In China, you need to purchase, not bid, the carpark lot separately, unit doesn't comes with carpark lot at all. The good side is you can sell or rent your carpark lot separately.

    As for hotel, they should since there used to be a lion city hotel which serve good and affordable Peranakan cuisine.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber Woods View Post
    Every Sunday, foreign maids and workers gather there for picnic, similar to the scene at Little India.
    wisma atria and ion also the same mah

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    I think you are right. $3,500 can get you pretty spacious units around. There are plenty of condos in the D15 Tanjong Katong area. But I disagree that PLQ has the best condo facilities around. It does not have parking space allocated for tenants which needs to be balloted. Yes, we read the fine prints. Also, there is only a pool and nothing else that really stands out. Trampoline park? Really?

    However, I won't argue that the train station is just next door and a 200 lot shopping mall is a stone throw away with 11 screen cineplex. Those who like integrated living will like it. I don't. I prefer the peace and quiet along Meyer Road(minus the TEL mrt construction).. I just hope our future tenants will like it.

    Looking ahead, as developers maximizes land use and plot ratio increases, mixed development will become more common for investors to invest. Duo is a 4 in one which is pretty rare. This is 3 in one. There will be plenty of 2 in 1 in the future where we are begginng to see now..

    Self stay or invest. It's a day and night choice. As investors, we need to make sure we put every dollar to work hard for us per psf. Working up vertically from basement, to ground level and 30th storey; this single psf could change in so many uses. That to me is making that dollar per psf work really hard.

    2 cents,
    Propvestor
    Sorry for the long quote above taking up space. Just checking with Propvestor who he think would be keen to live within his work/office area. Would these be single expats since units are tiny? But from what I see in my office, the single foreigners even those not on expat package typically prefer to stay near where the action & pubs are, more accessible & nearer to central though may not be the swanky areas.

    I'm just trying to think very hard who would be our potential tenants & future buyers of Park Place Residence at PLQ. What kind of field & professionals who can afford to pay the rent to support the price?

    Like Propvester, I don't think I would like to stay so close to my workplace (this is literally almost within workplace !) as it'll keep reminding me of work & I can't rest well ..unless we're talking about Orchard or Marina One Bay then it's a different story.

    What do folks here think? Thanks for sharing your thots!

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dot2 View Post
    Sorry for the long quote above taking up space. Just checking with Propvestor who he think would be keen to live within his work/office area. Would these be single expats since units are tiny? But from what I see in my office, the single foreigners even those not on expat package typically prefer to stay near where the action & pubs are, more accessible & nearer to central though may not be the swanky areas.

    I'm just trying to think very hard who would be our potential tenants & future buyers of Park Place Residence at PLQ. What kind of field & professionals who can afford to pay the rent to support the price?

    Like Propvester, I don't think I would like to stay so close to my workplace (this is literally almost within workplace !) as it'll keep reminding me of work & I can't rest well ..unless we're talking about Orchard or Marina One Bay then it's a different story.

    What do folks here think? Thanks for sharing your thots!
    Hi RedDot2,

    From the sound of it, you are buying it for the same purpose as us. Tenancy in an integrated development is all about convenience. You hit the nail in the head by saying that foreigners want to stay near amenities such as malls, supermarkets, pubs etc. Why? Their package today as I understand are not generous but housing is a must. Transportation fees/time can be saved! If you look at the later which can be saved in terms of time and costs, PPR proximity to PLQ offices is a huge advantage. They get to save alot of time on transportation and get a bit more time resting. (Getting up at 8am for a 9am meeting is possible, this is a huge intangible benefit). They do not need to own a car or even a bike (increasingly common among expats now). Demographically, 1BR should be expats with no kids coz based on my measurements, you cannot fit a cot into the room after a queen size bed is inside for 500 sqft of space. 2 bedders is OK but at Phase I entry price, it will be a challenge for 3.5% returns.

    Between TOP to 5 years down the road, the tenants who are potentially there all boils down to LandLease's efforts. Who they approach as tenants. I take my observation from Duo Tower, Abbott (https://sgbayhomes.wordpress.com/tag...-duo-in-bugis/) who took up 100,000 sqft in at Duo Tower is a good anchor tenant to have. Therefore Duo Residences tenancy odds will increase. I will never consider PPR if PLQ offices are Strata Title, just take a look at PL Square and you will know what I mean.

    PLQ will need to do the same to secure multiple floor tenants like what M+S did for Duo. LandLease pitching needs to be precise. They should be looking for MNCs who are spread across multiple locations and try to integrate them into single Grade A office because PLQ has the size area advantage without CBD prices.

    LandLease tenant mix will hopefully be a bank/financial institution, tech or telco, pharma, automotive etc. The key is 'low-balling' Shenton Way prices or about $8psf which is Duo Tower lock in price for the first 3 years. PLQ is a new area so they need to work a little harder to pitch. With regards to who will buy our investment down the line, it all depends on the government really because I firmly believe, they are the ones that ultimately control supply and demand. Rest assured you should not just look at the 10,000 workers within 100m from PPR, the nearby lots of land are all blue commercial sites. They will add another couple of thousands from 2025 onwards. The future looks bright for this area. We should all look at 2018 URA Masterplan very carefully next year.

    I wish you all the best in your investments and I hope I have answered your questions.

    2 cents,
    PropVestor

  7. #97
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    More important question should be how much is the monthly maintenance fee. If rental is $2800 and maintenance is $400 per mth good luck. 2nd question is r u paying ABSD? If u bought $1700psf plus ABSD easily $1900psf. U will need to sell it at $2100psf to make profit.

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    Impressive!

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    Duo while launched at peak time of 2013, the recent new and resale prices still able.to fetch higher, though if counting on annual gain probably still negligible.

    I quite like PropVestor view on investing in rare product like PLQ or Duo, i could see both stand out in bugis and paya lebar vicinity.

    Still prefer resale market though, too much peer pressure if buy during launch

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomutomi View Post
    Duo while launched at peak time of 2013, the recent new and resale prices still able.to fetch higher, though if counting on annual gain probably still negligible.

    I quite like PropVestor view on investing in rare product like PLQ or Duo, i could see both stand out in bugis and paya lebar vicinity.

    Still prefer resale market though, too much peer pressure if buy during launch
    Duo is at bugis very central patk place is another story.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by star View Post
    Duo is at bugis very central patk place is another story.
    Yes, very different indeed. PLC catchment will be more than Bugis. When I mean catchment, it includes those who work, lives and play there. Bugis is still quite commercial at the moment, catchment peak is during office hours mainly driven by workers. It is hard to compare between the two for this aspect. I am hoping for D7 to have more activity but the Queen Street hotel site bids were unsuccessful. It also takes a few more years for Rochor Centre area to be rejuvenated. Only hope is for Beach Road commercial site (diagonally across Duo) to play up the area slightly and hopefully the underground walkway from Suntec Tower 4 will be linked to DTL and Duo.

    I quote:

    "Paya Lebar Quarter will serve a working population of 22,000 in the local catchment area within 7 minutes’ walk and approximately one million residents in the trade area. When the wider Paya Lebar Central precinct is fully developed, Paya Lebar Quarter is expected to have 52,000 workers in its immediate catchment."

    http://www.lendlease.com/-/media/llc...n-project.ashx

  12. #102
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    Omg 52,000 workers, yet only 450 residential units. Landlease needs to build more, floating or underground i dun care, build more!!

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomutomi View Post
    Omg 52,000 workers, yet only 450 residential units. Landlease needs to build more, floating or underground i dun care, build more!!
    That's so funny. Jokes aside, they can't coz of the land % for residential cannot exceed the current. Underground is also an issue due to the canal which they need to cover. It's actually a very challenging site to built. Broken into pieces and linked by 3 bridges.

    Main issue is the height limit which is due to PL Air base. It will only start shifting from 2030 onwards to changi east which is under expansion now.

    PLC will have to count on neighboring areas to support this growth. Maybe that's why Geylang area is building so many small walk up apartments.

  14. #104
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    will the property in geylang upper lorong from 30 onwards appreciate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    That's so funny. Jokes aside, they can't coz of the land % for residential cannot exceed the current. Underground is also an issue due to the canal which they need to cover. It's actually a very challenging site to built. Broken into pieces and linked by 3 bridges.

    Main issue is the height limit which is due to PL Air base. It will only start shifting from 2030 onwards to changi east which is under expansion now.

    PLC will have to count on neighboring areas to support this growth. Maybe that's why Geylang area is building so many small walk up apartments.
    Hi Propvester, thank you for all the valuable ins

  16. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    That's so funny. Jokes aside, they can't coz of the land % for residential cannot exceed the current. Underground is also an issue due to the canal which they need to cover. It's actually a very challenging site to built. Broken into pieces and linked by 3 bridges.

    Main issue is the height limit which is due to PL Air base. It will only start shifting from 2030 onwards to changi east which is under expansion now.

    PLC will have to count on neighboring areas to support this growth. Maybe that's why Geylang area is building so many small walk up apartments.
    Hi Propvester, thanks for all your insightful posts. I realised I've plunged in without much research. As PL development plan would take a while & shifting of airbase will only start around 2030, would it be foolish to think about making a small profit (low thousands) if I sell about 1-2 years after TOP or am I better off forfeiting 25% of the booking fee? It is my fault that I went ahead with a 60sqm 2 bedder of 1.7k psf though I had prior in mind a ceiling of 1.6k psf.

    I had succumbed to the temptation when all 1 bedders at Low floor were sold when my number was called. The entry price for 1 bedder is about same or slightly more than my 2 bedder so 1 bedder is a better purchase now that I have more time to reflect & look at rental data of nearby condos.

    Thanks for your kind advice.

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dot2 View Post
    Hi Propvester, thanks for all your insightful posts. I realised I've plunged in without much research. As PL development plan would take a while & shifting of airbase will only start around 2030, would it be foolish to think about making a small profit (low thousands) if I sell about 1-2 years after TOP or am I better off forfeiting 25% of the booking fee? It is my fault that I went ahead with a 60sqm 2 bedder of 1.7k psf though I had prior in mind a ceiling of 1.6k psf.

    I had succumbed to the temptation when all 1 bedders at Low floor were sold when my number was called. The entry price for 1 bedder is about same or slightly more than my 2 bedder so 1 bedder is a better purchase now that I have more time to reflect & look at rental data of nearby condos.

    Thanks for your kind advice.
    Hi RedDot2, I will write to you via PM since this is pretty personal with regards to your decision. I too have received such PMs over the last few days on this project and their respective sentiments of their purchase. All of which should not be taken lightly since its our hard earn monies and you made the choice of parking it here.

  18. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    Hi RedDot2, I will write to you via PM since this is pretty personal with regards to your decision. I too have received such PMs over the last few days on this project and their respective sentiments of their purchase. All of which should not be taken lightly since its our hard earn monies and you made the choice of parking it here.
    Now that I am older.....I miss the time when I was younger and bolder. Often I wish that I have taken more calculated risk and I regret for worrying too much. In the end doing something is a lot better than doing nothing.

  19. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dot2 View Post
    Hi Propvester, thanks for all your insightful posts. I realised I've plunged in without much research. As PL development plan would take a while & shifting of airbase will only start around 2030, would it be foolish to think about making a small profit (low thousands) if I sell about 1-2 years after TOP or am I better off forfeiting 25% of the booking fee? It is my fault that I went ahead with a 60sqm 2 bedder of 1.7k psf though I had prior in mind a ceiling of 1.6k psf.

    I had succumbed to the temptation when all 1 bedders at Low floor were sold when my number was called. The entry price for 1 bedder is about same or slightly more than my 2 bedder so 1 bedder is a better purchase now that I have more time to reflect & look at rental data of nearby condos.

    Thanks for your kind advice.
    Buy already don't look back. There will always be better and worse deals.

    Two bedder has more long term flexibility than 1 bedder actually.

    PL is already developing well but Airbase shifted out later. I think it is a fair game to go for. It's a good time to buy and hide under shelter during this period of low rentals. The units will appear perfect when we have resumed growth curve - my two cents only.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  20. #110
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    As a brand name, Paya Lebar is mostly out of investors' sight. Its surroundings like Geylang Serai, light industrial Ubi and height limit really put a damper to the entire proposition. The Airbase is still a good way out of PLC and should have minimal impact to the value of PLQ. If its any nearer like Ubi Ave 3 or 4 where the F15s are flying sorties, I will have second thoughts.

    Looking far ahead into the future ....

    When PLAB moves to Changi East, Paya Lebar as a district name will get another kick start because a lot of land will be freed up like what is happening to Bidadari (remains hidden until last few years). Those residents staying there in the future should be babies now since it will be post 2030 (another 10-20 years timeline to build). URA targets to free up 800 hectares of land for 50-60k future residents to meet future population figures. It will be a brand new town built from scratch with 30-40 storeys HDBs. Its forward thinking like Marina Bay was reclaimed back in the 70s when govt projected that we will run out of CBD space today.

    http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-pr...-land/a/133076

    audentes Fortuna iuvat

    2 cents,
    PropVestor

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    Not to mention kallang river area going to have 100,000 flats.

    And how about opinion to have another hdb cluster at bayshore area?

    So many hypes around. Preparing for 6.9 millions by 2030

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    SG liked to make ghost town

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomutomi View Post

    So many hypes around. Preparing for 6.9 millions by 2030
    Well, who else will buy our properties if our domestic Singaporean population is shrinking YOY? Good observation on your part.

    From the way I see it, once majority of the 360km of train lines are completed coupled with the decentralisation plans in full swing, we will be ready to welcome more new migrants. Albeit a more controlled rate than the first wave which was a gross miscalculation, larger micro-cities with better connectivity will be very much an integral part of our future Singapore.

    Current segregation of OCR, RCR and CCR properties will matter less as micro location will count more. Since Singapore will be like a metropolis with vibrant sub-districts or micro cities which will have its own eco-system of trade zones, residential and transportation. I see One North, Jurong Lake District, PLC, Woodlands etc are part of all bigger Singapore ecosystem complementing one another. Pricing for properties within these micro cities will depend on their micro locations. Therefore, a prime micro-location will command a price that is the same or equivalent to a prime CCR of what we know today?

    Any thoughts on that?

  24. #114
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    Looking at population growth since 1990-2016, it's consistently adding 1 million every 10 years, or avg 100K per year, or avg new 35K households per year. I believe gov somehow had those number factored into their long term plan.

    I have no doubt gov will nurture other areas for better balancing. Though it's more important to know what specialties or job type those area cater for. Those in financial and tech industries tend to flock around central and changi BP currently and usually paid well. Whats the positioning for woodlands, jurong and paya lebar?

    Also tend to agree rcr ocr and ccr may not so relevant in the future. I wont surprise if one day d09 - d11 become less exclusive or desirable.

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    May be they have to implant HDB flats among GCB areas (like Namly Ave, Nassim etc) for a start to make CCR more equitable to OCR???

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomutomi View Post
    Looking at population growth since 1990-2016, it's consistently adding 1 million every 10 years, or avg 100K per year, or avg new 35K households per year. I believe gov somehow had those number factored into their long term plan.

    I have no doubt gov will nurture other areas for better balancing. Though it's more important to know what specialties or job type those area cater for. Those in financial and tech industries tend to flock around central and changi BP currently and usually paid well. Whats the positioning for woodlands, jurong and paya lebar?

    Also tend to agree rcr ocr and ccr may not so relevant in the future. I wont surprise if one day d09 - d11 become less exclusive or desirable.

  26. #116
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    There is no right or wrong for this development.
    Its abit steep but like Duo and MO, I kind of think buying this is like owning a trophy, owning a rare product.
    Was lucky in the ballot and got a mid floor unit.
    Overpriced? - Yes. Better value condo elsewhere? - Yes.
    There are always comparison, this is the first 4 in 1 outside the usual CBD areas. (MRT/Retail/Condo/Office)
    So its an unique product. Rental will be easy, as for yields, we will only know in 3 yrs time.

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    The logic is if the good (ccr) one is stagnant and has no bull factor, and the average (rcr) and bad (ocr) one keep improving, the gap will become less and less.

    If people comparing jurong or punggol within last 10 years, the difference is huge.

    The same may apply to those staying around kallang river in another 10 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    May be they have to implant HDB flats among GCB areas (like Namly Ave, Nassim etc) for a start to make CCR more equitable to OCR???

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    May be they have to implant HDB flats among GCB areas (like Namly Ave, Nassim etc) for a start to make CCR more equitable to OCR???
    This is actually a point made to the Great Southern Waterfront development debate, which is where the current PSA ports are being relocated further west.

    There is a debate whether such future prime areas should have public housing to balance out the area. So this is not out of the question to implant HDBs or ECs in these exclusive areas in the future.

    I sure hope we will not have too much segregation as that is not what Singapore is about. More sentosa cove like area is not actually a good thing. We strive for integration and non xenophobic future. If not, we will have issues with racial and cultural harmony for future housing. That is why 'community spaces' where the public can enjoy is a requirement for developers of massive developments. Developers need to comply with the masterplan. PLQ has such plans in mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    Well, who else will buy our properties if our domestic Singaporean population is shrinking YOY? Good observation on your part.

    From the way I see it, once majority of the 360km of train lines are completed coupled with the decentralisation plans in full swing, we will be ready to welcome more new migrants. Albeit a more controlled rate than the first wave which was a gross miscalculation, larger micro-cities with better connectivity will be very much an integral part of our future Singapore.

    Current segregation of OCR, RCR and CCR properties will matter less as micro location will count more. Since Singapore will be like a metropolis with vibrant sub-districts or micro cities which will have its own eco-system of trade zones, residential and transportation. I see One North, Jurong Lake District, PLC, Woodlands etc are part of all bigger Singapore ecosystem complementing one another. Pricing for properties within these micro cities will depend on their micro locations. Therefore, a prime micro-location will command a price that is the same or equivalent to a prime CCR of what we know today?

    Any thoughts on that?
    Most will not believe what is going to happen knowing what will happen.

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    For this project, investment is surely a red alert 'no'.

    If buy to sell when TOP, how much can u sell when u buy a 99LH at 1700 psf & the surroundings freehold Geylang condo are only at around 900 - 1200 psf.

    If buy to rent, how low will be your rental yield in percentage when u buy at 1700 psf & rental market of better mm is only $2k now, 2 bedder would likely fetch u $2.5k - 2.8k & 3 bedder at 3k - 3.5k. Worst thing is if get loan, would not even cover monthly instalment. Wonder if anyone really believe the rental value that agents say in showroom. Tenants will choose other Paya Lebar or Geylang areas condo across the road or Eunos, Aljunied, Kembangan, Tanah Merah areas if ur pricing is more than $200 higher in the market now & rental market is expected to be worsen base on new private homes supply in sg.

    But 1 thing good is to buy for own stay. Given the convenience of the location, it should be a good choice for a family to stay in 3 bedder.

    In conclusion, this is actually a geographical good project for own stay but the pricing determined to be not for investment.
    Last edited by ixxx; 07-04-17 at 23:29.

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