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Thread: URA: Max 6 Tenants in Private Properties

  1. #91
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    4 people in a MM unit! that's tight.

  2. #92
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    3 actually...but their girlfriends come over...

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by bargain hunter View Post
    yes. that was what sparked off the discussion. the minimum 10 sq m per pax rule is gone.
    oh, and right you are too . The 10 sqm per pax is a good rule to have. I thought both new rule (max 6 unrelated persons) and 10 sqm rule apply, but I see URA has indeed removed the 10sqm rule from their circular. definitely weird.

  4. #94
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    Interesting setup. Thanks for sharing.

    I did not quite consider more tenants cos it's likely to create a bigger mess and more headaches later. Contented with basic couple or individual.

    Unless sectioning is commonly adopted and proven with good tenant profile or near certain institutions or organization...


    Quote Originally Posted by mummy View Post
    Mine currently has a queen sized bed in the living room and double decker single beds in master room...so can fit 4 people..
    Dining room has a table and sofa for 2...
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Interesting setup. Thanks for sharing.

    I did not quite consider more tenants cos it's likely to create a bigger mess and more headaches later. Contented with basic couple or individual.

    Unless sectioning is commonly adopted and proven with good tenant profile or near certain institutions or organization...
    U r welcomed...took us a few months and we figured instead of renting S$1800 to couples or singles , might as well rent more as 2 bedder...we r lucky as some even rented as Low as S$1700...

    The China students r nice...did not even request for a TV and bought their own double decker beds and extra furniture.

  6. #96
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    Ideas tie in well with ST online front page on Nano flats in HK.

    Remember the young always think and behave differently from the older generations.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  7. #97
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    I thought that these MM units are no longer the popular thing to invest in these days given the falling rentals? wonder if that's true and what are the opinions of owners / landlords holding MM units ? anyone?

  8. #98
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    Based on the messages Govt is sending right now and the current situation, they will be the next in thing again. My speculation only.

    So far most of us with this have no issues. Investor friendly.


    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    I thought that these MM units are no longer the popular thing to invest in these days given the falling rentals? wonder if that's true and what are the opinions of owners / landlords holding MM units ? anyone?
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Based on the messages Govt is sending right now and the current situation, they will be the next in thing again. My speculation only.

    So far most of us with this have no issues. Investor friendly.
    Good to know.
    Contrary to what I seem to hear all the time that MM units are too small and only benefit a tiny segment of the populace, these small units are the first to be sold out in many of the new launches. (grandeur park, seaside resi, etc).

  10. #100
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    Super bull stage, to encourage buyers to hold off purchases, will be to set very high bar for them. They will save and wait.

    Once that is over, everything returns to normality. Worldwide modern trend in city everyone starts small.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    Good to know.
    Contrary to what I seem to hear all the time that MM units are too small and only benefit a tiny segment of the populace, these small units are the first to be sold out in many of the new launches. (grandeur park, seaside resi, etc).
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    Good to know.
    Contrary to what I seem to hear all the time that MM units are too small and only benefit a tiny segment of the populace, these small units are the first to be sold out in many of the new launches. (grandeur park, seaside resi, etc).
    Affordability, Higher Yield and Stabilizing Prices:

    https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/market.../shoebox-units
    https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/market...shoebox-rental

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by anythingwhatever View Post
    OK, but a couple of caveats:
    1. yields are based on current rentals and current transacted. Not for those bought at higher prices circa 2012-2013 (ie at the height of the shoebox craze)
    2. rentals are dropping as we speak.
    3. yields calculated do not take into account vacancy rates - which is quite hard to compute based on transactional data. Based on media estimates, you probably have to knock off additional 10% discount on the calculated yields.

    Where is viva vista in the list?

  13. #103
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    Eh as I have shared, I bought in 2012, and prices have continued to rise from then. Both yields and prices have continued to grow.

    Rentals have hit a bottom limit in my view because any lower, it would compete directly with HDBs. Any lower, CPF will also easily cover.

    These average yields are actual yields, and vacancies based on actual electrical bill have been on constant trajectory downwards for several quarters since a few quarters back...

    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    OK, but a couple of caveats:
    1. yields are based on current rentals and current transacted. Not for those bought at higher prices circa 2012-2013 (ie at the height of the shoebox craze)
    2. rentals are dropping as we speak.
    3. yields calculated do not take into account vacancy rates - which is quite hard to compute based on transactional data. Based on media estimates, you probably have to knock off additional 10% discount on the calculated yields.

    Where is viva vista in the list?
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  14. #104
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    Correction: Yields fell to 3 plus% as prices have continued to grow.

    These average yields are actual yields, and vacancies based on actual electrical bill have been on constant trajectory downwards for several quarters since a few quarters back...

    I am more interested in Jurong Gateway performance.
    Last edited by Kelonguni; 17-05-17 at 21:47.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  15. #105
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    The rule will make the cost of production higher. It will make less competitive

  16. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Eh as I have shared, I bought in 2012, and prices have continued to rise from then. Both yields and prices have continued to grow.

    Rentals have hit a bottom limit in my view because any lower, it would compete directly with HDBs. Any lower, CPF will also easily cover.

    These average yields are actual yields, and vacancies based on actual electrical bill have been on constant trajectory downwards for several quarters since a few quarters back...
    don't get me wrong, i 'm not against shoeboxes. What you shared is good to know.
    How do you calculate vacancies based on actual electrical bills? I estimate vacancy rate by taking the number of listings on property portal divide by total number of units. It's a rough estimate. Wondering if there is a better way to estimate vacancy.

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Correction: Yields fell to 3 plus% as prices have continued to grow.

    These average yields are actual yields, and vacancies based on actual electrical bill have been on constant trajectory downwards for several quarters since a few quarters back...

    I am more interested in Jurong Gateway performance.
    You bought J Gateway? I find the psf hard to swallow.

  18. #108
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    If you got money, what will you do.

    1. Put in the Bank to wait for depreciation.
    2. Buy share
    3. Buy property

  19. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    You bought J Gateway? I find the psf hard to swallow.
    Nah, that's our king of OCR, use it to take reading about head of OCR. But recently I think got overtaken.

    Mine is one of those on the list of good yields listed.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  20. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    don't get me wrong, i 'm not against shoeboxes. What you shared is good to know.
    How do you calculate vacancies based on actual electrical bills? I estimate vacancy rate by taking the number of listings on property portal divide by total number of units. It's a rough estimate. Wondering if there is a better way to estimate vacancy.
    Listing is definitely inaccurate. When I advertised, there were at least 3 duplicate unit post just on one website.

    The vacancy based on electrical bill report is by URA. Read the quarterly report 2017Q1.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  21. #111
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    Now obviously buy shares, so many opportunities and easy to sell (not like OCR private properties, you will be paying HISTORICAL PEAKed PRICE if you buy now and then get stuck for 10+ years before even break-even (not even considering mortgage interest) like those Bishan buyers in 1997?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    If you got money, what will you do.

    1. Put in the Bank to wait for depreciation.
    2. Buy share
    3. Buy property

  22. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    If you got money, what will you do.

    1. Put in the Bank to wait for depreciation.
    2. Buy share
    3. Buy property
    I have seen older generation did (1) only and as inflation rose as they got older, their lifestyle moved from middle class to lower middle class. (2) and (3) is OK, both have risks. I do think property is the safest, however I do see too many people have their whole life earnings ploughed into property. some people are saying property might crash, however, one thing is for sure, developers are paying higher and higher prices for land banking over the years. Imagine 20 years ago a plot in tanjung rhu was sold for only 300psf ppr, look at the land prices now.

  23. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Listing is definitely inaccurate. When I advertised, there were at least 3 duplicate unit post just on one website.

    The vacancy based on electrical bill report is by URA. Read the quarterly report 2017Q1.
    That's average / overall vacancy reported in media, am i right? I'm looking to estimate vacancy for a specific project. Any ideas? I am resorting to ad hoc methods currently (listings count, lights at night, number of shoes outside units etc).

  24. #114
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    Yes, that is why property developers are most profitable! This is because they just flip papers (sell you just "papers" for properties you buy, so buying land at PEAK price is not a concern to them as long as they can flip quickly to YOU!), and then when property prices CRASH later, it is you who are holding the BABIES (not them)! They already pocketed your money!

    No wonder even companies like Popular (sell books), Aspial (sell jewelleries), 2nd Chance (sell clothings) all want to become property developers too!

    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    I have seen older generation did (1) only and as inflation rose as they got older, their lifestyle moved from middle class to lower middle class. (2) and (3) is OK, both have risks. I do think property is the safest, however I do see too many people have their whole life earnings ploughed into property. some people are saying property might crash, however, one thing is for sure, developers are paying higher and higher prices for land banking over the years. Imagine 20 years ago a plot in tanjung rhu was sold for only 300psf ppr, look at the land prices now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Yes, that is why property developers are most profitable!

    No wonder even companies like Popular (sell books), Aspial (sell jewelleries), 2nd Chance (sell clothings) all turn to become developers!
    Don't buy brand new from developers. Buy resale, older freehold properties, in good locations.

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    When one is able to figure out the motivation those behind buying new launches, he is also able to see if there is indeed bullishness in this market.

    Teddy seems to be ranting all the times, but he is honest.

  27. #117
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    Most of us here are honest; it's just we see a different side of the coin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuho View Post
    When one is able to figure out the motivation those behind buying new launches, he is also able to see if there is indeed bullishness in this market.

    Teddy seems to be ranting all the times, but he is honest.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  28. #118
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    New cap on tenants for private homes, deadline looms for agents, landlords to ink deals

    MAY 13, 2017

    From Monday, landlords can rent out to no more than six unrelated persons; no change to HDB cap

    Ng Jun Sen


    When she moved out of her family home last year, Ms Yvette Lim, 34, thought she could eventually sublet her old bedroom to help her family pay the rent.

    With a floor area of 4,500 sq ft, her spacious Choa Chu Kang house, where six of her family members now live, could easily accommodate a few more tenants, she calculated.

    But her plans have been dashed.

    From Monday, landlords can rent out private homes to no more than six unrelated persons. If there are six related people living in the residence, no tenants are allowed.

    The move reduces the occupancy cap from eight previously.

    Existing tenancy agreements with seven or eight tenants will be allowed to run their course until May 15, 2019, but after that, the rules will kick in regardless of the contract's expiration date, said the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) in a letter on Thursday to registered property agents .

    For HDB flats, the maximum sub-tenants allowed for a three-room unit and a four-room or bigger unit remain unchanged, at six and nine respectively.

    Ms Lim, an administrative assistant, told The Straits Times: "Eight was just nice for us, but it's a pity now because the house will be quite empty. One of the five bedrooms will be unused."

    Responding to queries from The Straits Times, a URA spokesman said the rule change ensures that residential premises are "consistent with the character of the local community and integrate better with the neighbourhood".

    He added that it takes into account "the strong supply of alternative accommodation" that caters to non-familial groups of occupants, such as hostels for students and dormitories for company employees.

    Some residents and property watchers The Straits Times spoke to welcomed the move, saying it will reduce disruption and noise caused by overcrowded units.

    PropNex Realty chief executive officer Ismail Gafoor said: "Private properties are meant to be exclusive, with owners of the development having the quiet enjoyment of the facilities and lifestyle. In order to maintain this exclusivity, the cap of six tenants is reasonable."

    However, landlords such as Mr Peter Chiado not agree. The retiree, who is in his 60s, relies on rental income from his four-bedroom unit in Pacific Mansion in the River Valley area. He lives there with five tenants and hopes to get two more.

    Mr Chia will have to take down his advertisement if he is unable to rent out the empty bedroom in his 1,500 sq ft apartment by Monday. This is a loss of $900 to $1,200 in potential monthly rent, he said.

    The new rule will also affect home-sharing such as Airbnb. The URA is studying the option of creating a new category of private homes that will allow short-term rentals.

    An occupancy cap of six means that future home-sharing hosts will not be able to lease out an apartment to, say, two large families, said International Property Advisor CEO Ku Swee Yong.

    Some analysts wondered if the occupancy cap could have better reflected the size of the home.

    Said Cushman & Wakefield research director Christine Li: "A better implementation could have been to peg occupancy caps to the number of bedrooms, similar to that for HDB flats."

    URA said this is not the case as there are various types of private property, from small apartments to bungalows. Said a spokesman: "We have simplified the control for greater clarity to the public by not adopting a stratified occupancy cap control based on unit sizes."

    Thursday's announcement gave three days for real estate agents to react and could trigger a surge in rental contracts being renewed or signed over the weekend, said ERA Realty key executive officer Eugene Lim.

    On social media, some agents have started asking landlords with a sizeable number of tenants to quickly renew their tenancy pacts.

    Said Mr Lim: "We have not seen any surge of sign-ups yet, but we do not rule out that some landlords will try (to do so) over the next few days, before May 15 arrives."

    Mr Lim believes HDB occupancy caps may soon follow suit.

    "There is a possibility that HDB may align the caps accordingly since the spirit of this rule change is to prevent overcrowding within residential units," he said.

  29. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by reporter2 View Post
    [B][SIZE=5]
    Mr Lim believes HDB occupancy caps may soon follow suit.

    "There is a possibility that HDB may align the caps accordingly since the spirit of this rule change is to prevent overcrowding within residential units," he said.
    Next question: How soon will HDB follow suit?

    Looks more like a matter of when than if....

  30. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by anythingwhatever View Post
    Next question: How soon will HDB follow suit?

    Looks more like a matter of when than if....

    HDB already got strict rules for subletting, the number is just to calibrate to ensure FW not using Condo as Dormitory.

    Subletting period
    The minimum subletting period for each subtenant must be 6 months per application. You are not allowed to sublet your flat or bedroom on a short-term basis as it may disrupt the living environment and pose security concerns for our residents.

    The subletting period is indicated in the approval letter, up to a maximum of 3 years if all the subtenants are Singaporeans or Malaysians. The maximum is capped at 1.5 years for non-Malaysian non-citizen subtenants. Non-citizens refer to Singapore Permanent Residents and foreigners. You are required to reapply for approval each time you sublet your flat or renew the subletting application.

    http://www.hdb.gov.sg/cs/infoweb/res...ng-regulations

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