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Thread: SLA to take over land at Lorong 3 Geylang when lease expires in 2020

  1. #31
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    This case is really a shake-up of Leasehold properties whether private or public. More test case to follow.

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    An article in todayonline said the original owner paid $5000 in1961 for this terrace house. Just unfortunate that their parents bought the wrong terrace house. They could have bought a FH landed in better area with the same $5000 and it would easily value at $2-3 million today. Hence, this is a lessen learnt to all LH landed property owners.
    Quote Originally Posted by maisonjai View Post
    Every owner of the affected 191 terrace houses will be assigned a SLA officer, who will guide them through the lease expiry process.

    SINGAPORE: The land currently occupied by 191 private terrace houses at Lorong 3 Geylang will return to the state when its current lease expires on Dec 31, 2020, the Singapore Land Authority (SLA) confirmed for the first time on Tuesday (Jun 20).

    The land is slated for future public housing, the authority said in a news release.

    "As a general policy, leasehold land will return to the state upon lease expiry. This allows the land to be rejuvenated to meet the new social and economic needs of Singaporeans," the SLA said.

    The houses along the street are on 60-year leases that started in 1961. When the leases run out, owners have to make sure the properties are cleared of all belongings and furniture, utilities and services are terminated and all outstanding bills are paid.

    They do not need to demolish or do any works to reinstate the property, the agency clarified.

    OWNERS "WILL NOT BE LEFT WITHOUT OPTIONS"

    According to SLA, most of the current owners of the terrace houses have moved out and are letting out their units to foreign workers and other occupants who use them for religious activities.

    Of the 191 houses, 143 have been leased to foreign workers on work passes and 31 to those conducting religious activities such as temple operators, while 33 are owner occupants, SLA said. It added that some of the homes are counted twice as they have multiple uses.

    To assist in the transition, a dedicated SLA officer will be assigned to each house owner, who will guide them through the lease expiry process over the next three and a half years. Those who do not already have alternative housing have various options, including buying an HDB flat or private property, renting on the open market or living with family members.

    SLA added there are existing schemes for elderly homeowners, such as the short-lease 2-Room Flexi flats.

    "They will not be left without options," the agency said.
    As for employers of foreign work pass holders, these owners can consider relocating their workers to other approved housing such as purpose-built dormitories. The Manpower Ministry will remind employers to relocate their workers closer to the lease expiry date, the agency said.

    Occupants currently conducting religious activities in houses on the affected street can consider co-locating with religious organisations operating in other areas or renting space from commercial or industrial premises where part of the space is allowed to be used for religious purposes, SLA added.

    DO DUE DILIGENCE WHEN HOUSE HUNTING

    While the SLA announcement on Tuesday refers to private housing, National Development Minister Lawrence Wong had in March also said that when leases for Housing and Development Board flats end, the land will return to the state eventually.

    He said property buyers need to recognise the Selective En bloc Redevelopment Scheme (SERS) is not necessarily for all old HDB flats, as it is dependent on the site's redevelopment potential, and prices for these flats will come down in conjunction with the remaining time on the lease.

    Mr Wong's comments were in response to local reports highlighting the high prices of several short-lease HDB flats in the resale market.

    NEW HOUSING OPTIONS PLANNED

    The 2-ha plot of land in Geylang has been earmarked for new public housing development, and is also part of a larger plan to rejuvenate Kallang, SLA said.
    The land, about 900m from Kallang MRT and 500m from the new Geylang Bahru MRT set to open in October this year, will offer Singaporeans new public housing options near the city centre in Kallang, the agency noted.

    These are in addition to the new public housing developments in Boon Keng, Bendemeer and around Kallang MRT station, as well as new private residences in Kampong Bugis, SLA pointed out.

    http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...res-in-8961090

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    They bought the correct House, the problem is their software not updated.

  4. #34
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    They bought the WRONG house lah! Plain simple as that!
    Warren Buffett said if you bought the right stock (just like buying the right property, like Freehold property in prime location), you do nothing for next 30 years and you still will still makes lots of money!

    If you bought the wrong stock (like buying depreciating leasehold property (regardless of landed or non-landed like apartments, condos etc)), then you have to be like Soros know when to flip and sell quickly to the next greater fool.......
    Then you have to ask yourself, are you as smart as Soros?
    Have you been making lots and lots of money from flipping stocks and forex etc? If you don't, what makes you think you can make money flipping property?

    Anyway, Soros always buy at near cheapest price and sell near highest price!
    So if you learn the lesson from Soros: Are you going to buy OCR private property at THOUSAND YEARS HISTORICAL PEAK PRICE or going to sell (so that you can make money)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    They bought the correct House, the problem is their software not updated.
    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008 View Post
    An article in todayonline said the original owner paid $5000 in1961 for this terrace house. Just unfortunate that their parents bought the wrong terrace house. They could have bought a FH landed in better area with the same $5000 and it would easily value at $2-3 million today. Hence, this is a lessen learnt to all LH landed property owners.
    Last edited by teddybear; 25-06-17 at 11:42.

  5. #35
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    Let me be the fool. Sell me for $5000 after depleted 57 years lease.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  6. #36
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    Don't think they will sell you also, since they count just like you and Archacon:
    Rental per month $3000 x 36 months = $108,000 total rental!
    So they would want to sell you $108,000 (because that is the rental stream they will get if they don't sell)!


    May be they will sell you at $5000 from when they still have <1 year lease left?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Let me be the fool. Sell me for $5000 after depleted 57 years lease.

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    It's weird leh.

    Bought at 5000, lived in it for 50+ years, left three years lease, but still valued at 100K, equating to approximately 6% compounded on 5000 for 50+ years.

    Really bewildering!

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Don't think they will sell you also, since they count just like you and Archacon:
    Rental per month $3000 x 36 months = $108,000 total rental!
    So they would want to sell you $108,000 (because that is the rental stream they will get if they don't sell)!


    May be they will sell you at $5000 from when they still have <1 year lease left?
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    Once you buy a good FH property, you can sleep in peace with capital appreciation and bonus with tenants helping you to pay for your mortgage.
    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    They bought the WRONG house lah! Plain simple as that!
    Warren Buffett said if you bought the right stock (just like buying the right property, like Freehold property in prime location), you do nothing for next 30 years and you still will still makes lots of money!

    If you bought the wrong stock (like buying depreciating leasehold property (regardless of landed or non-landed like apartments, condos etc)), then you have to be like Soros know when to flip and sell quickly to the next greater fool.......
    Then you have to ask yourself, are you as smart as Soros?
    Have you been making lots and lots of money from flipping stocks and forex etc? If you don't, what makes you think you can make money flipping property?

    Anyway, Soros always buy at near cheapest price and sell near highest price!
    So if you learn the lesson from Soros: Are you going to buy OCR private property at THOUSAND YEARS HISTORICAL PEAK PRICE or going to sell (so that you can make money)?

  9. #39
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    Ha ha ha!
    Precisely because they thought the same way like you, that is why they are at the DEAD END now without a property over their head! What yield are you talking about?!

    Imagine they bought at $5000 in 1961 for a freehold terrace house, they would be able to live in it until they die (even if they live until 150 years old!), and still leave behind a freehold terrace house that is easily valued at >$3 Millions!.
    You want to talk about yield? Then average yield of the freehold terrace house = ($3M / $5000)/57 years = 1,052% p.a.!

    I don't know how you get your compounded yield to be 6%. Let's do easier calculation using average yield for your 60-years leasehold terrace house = ($100k / $5000) / 57 years = 35% p.a.


    Now that they acted like what you thought is wise to do, they end up with 60-years leasehold terrace house with 3 years expiry and market value of say $100k and going to expire to $0 value in 3 years time without a roof over their head and no more money to buy another property to live in!


    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    It's weird leh.

    Bought at 5000, lived in it for 50+ years, left three years lease, but still valued at 100K, equating to approximately 6% compounded on 5000 for 50+ years.

    Really bewildering!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    1. 5 room HDB with a floor area of 126sqm is LKY baby, now max only 105 sqm.
    2. Singapore uses to zone and price from the CBD call inner urban, outer urban, inner suburban.... also no more now they call Mature and Non-Mature estate.
    3. HDB use to control valuation of resale HDB now also no more.
    4. To buy HDB you need to have enough income to get the big unit and income limit to get HDB.
    5. HDB resale cannot rent out during MOP (5 years).
    6. PR cannot buy resale within 3 years of getting PR and must sell when not in Singapore and when buy PC.
    And many other factor which can only increase the selling price of HDB.
    When they start selling HDB for 60 years lease, the resale can only get worst.
    Don't really have to look at historical for pricing. The underlying market dynamic is not static, it changes over time, ALL the time.

    The most recent transaction of Southbank is $1.45 mil, 958 sf unit (99LH, 2006).

    The most recent rental transaction is $4000 pm.

    $4000 pm over 30 years is $1.44 mil.

    (There you go, the quick answer to your question. Nothing to do with money printing right?)

    Balam is HDB, meaning there is no land value to begin with. Maybe a “land squatting value” can be applied?

    Then, what is the multiplier to use for Balam today? How about for the 10-years projection? How about the next next 10-years projection? And going on, at the 99th year the value is still zero tiobo?

    OK lah, maybe there is SERS sibo?

    But what is the attraction of SERS, the government is basically paying you the market rate to possess on one hand, and selling you another at market rate on the other hand (I confess not knowing all the details).

    SERS is unlike a private enbloc, where the owner will get maybe $5 mil instead of $2 mil without an enbloc.

  11. #41
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    Oh, forgot to add that based on your claim of yield for the 60-years leasehold terrace house, now at 57-years old, this 60-years leasehold terrace house has average yield = 35% p.a.

    Ironically, when this 60-years leasehold terrace house reaches 60-years old, it will then has an average yield = 0% p.a.!
    Now, what kind of "good" investment will become $ZERO the longer you hold them?! Ironic and epic stupidity isn't it?!

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Ha ha ha!
    Precisely because they thought the same way like you, that is why they are at the DEAD END now without a property over their head! What yield are you talking about?!

    Imagine they bought at $5000 in 1961 for a freehold terrace house, they would be able to live in it until they die (even if they live until 150 years old!), and still leave behind a freehold terrace house that is easily valued at >$3 Millions!.
    You want to talk about yield? Then average yield of the freehold terrace house = ($3M / $5000)/57 years = 1,052% p.a.!

    I don't know how you get your compounded yield to be 6%. Let's do easier calculation using average yield for your 60-years leasehold terrace house = ($100k / $5000) / 57 years = 35% p.a.


    Now that they acted like what you thought is wise to do, they end up with 60-years leasehold terrace house with 3 years expiry and market value of say $100k and going to expire to $0 value in 3 years time without a roof over their head and no more money to buy another property to live in!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    It's weird leh.

    Bought at 5000, lived in it for 50+ years, left three years lease, but still valued at 100K, equating to approximately 6% compounded on 5000 for 50+ years.

    Really bewildering!

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    According to news and Arcachon, only 33 out of 191 did not have the right software. 158 units knew exactly what to do and have gone ahead to do it.

    It's not the yield that really matters. It's what you had chosen to do with the yield that determines the make or break.

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Oh, forgot to add that based on your claim of yield for the 60-years leasehold terrace house, now at 57-years old, this 60-years leasehold terrace house has average yield = 35% p.a.

    Ironically, when this 60-years leasehold terrace house reaches 60-years old, it will then has an average yield = 0% p.a.!
    Now, what kind of "good" investment will become $ZERO the longer you hold them?! Ironic and epic stupidity isn't it?!
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    Hence, LH landed property will become more run down as which owner in the right frame of mind will renovate or rebuilt the house at a cost of at least $500k. This also applies to LH condo nearing to their lease. Someone posted a question in the forum recently on why he is just a tenant in a HDB flat where HDB is the landlord and why are they paying property tax.
    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Ha ha ha!
    Precisely because they thought the same way like you, that is why they are at the DEAD END now without a property over their head! What yield are you talking about?!

    Imagine they bought at $5000 in 1961 for a freehold terrace house, they would be able to live in it until they die (even if they live until 150 years old!), and still leave behind a freehold terrace house that is easily valued at >$3 Millions!.
    You want to talk about yield? Then average yield of the freehold terrace house = ($3M / $5000)/57 years = 1,052% p.a.!

    I don't know how you get your compounded yield to be 6%. Let's do easier calculation using average yield for your 60-years leasehold terrace house = ($100k / $5000) / 57 years = 35% p.a.


    Now that they acted like what you thought is wise to do, they end up with 60-years leasehold terrace house with 3 years expiry and market value of say $100k and going to expire to $0 value in 3 years time without a roof over their head and no more money to buy another property to live in!

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    Roughly 20-30 years left or more there will be those who will renovate but maybe not rebuild... 100-200k

    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008 View Post
    Hence, LH landed property will become more run down as which owner in the right frame of mind will renovate or rebuilt the house at a cost of at least $500k. This also applies to LH condo nearing to their lease. Someone posted a question in the forum recently on why he is just a tenant in a HDB flat where HDB is the landlord and why are they paying property tax.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuho View Post

    Balam is HDB, meaning there is no land value to begin with. Maybe a “land squatting value” can be applied?

    Then, what is the multiplier to use for Balam today? How about for the 10-years projection? How about the next next 10-years projection? And going on, at the 99th year the value is still zero tiobo?
    First is the Macpherson MRT, then the Matter MRT.

    Once the landed move out and they start building near the MRT that is where the fun begin.

    Like it or not it wouldn't be cheap.

    If you spend Billions of Dollar on the land, whether you like it or not the building will cost more.

    Simple logic, Billions here, Billions there and the Land is cheaper and the property is cheaper is it possible.

    HDB, Landed, PC price rise depends on the money pour into the land.

    UN once did a calculation to build another Singapore City and their conclusion is next to impossible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    According to news and Arcachon, only 33 out of 191 did not have the right software. 158 units knew exactly what to do and have gone ahead to do it.

    It's not the yield that really matters. It's what you had chosen to do with the yield that determines the make or break.
    http://www.todayonline.com/singapore...ents-live-life
    Last edited by Arcachon; 26-06-17 at 01:32.

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    There is a sizeable piece of land next to the convent school and the open air carpark that is next to the mattar station. Another large piece of land behind the landed properties and several blocks of old 1-2 room
    flats. Those nearby landed property should be worried.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    First is the Macpherson MRT, then the Matter MRT.

    Once the landed move out and they start building near the MRT that is where the fun begin.

    Like it or not it wouldn't be cheap.

    If you spend Billions of Dollar on the land, whether you like it or not the building will cost more.

    Simple logic, Billions here, Billions there and the Land is cheaper and the property is cheaper is it possible.

    HDB, Landed, PC price rise depends on the money pour into the land.

    UN once did a calculation to build another Singapore City and their conclusion is next to impossible.

  18. #48
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    Duplicate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    First is the Macpherson MRT, then the Matter MRT.

    Once the landed move out and they start building near the MRT that is where the fun begin.

    Like it or not it wouldn't be cheap.

    If you spend Billions of Dollar on the land, whether you like it or not the building will cost more.

    Simple logic, Billions here, Billions there and the Land is cheaper and the property is cheaper is it possible.

    HDB, Landed, PC price rise depends on the money pour into the land.

    UN once did a calculation to build another Singapore City and their conclusion is next to impossible.

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    Owners in their 50s should consider selling their LH landed with 20-30 years lease.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Roughly 20-30 years left or more there will be those who will renovate but maybe not rebuild... 100-200k

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008 View Post
    There is a sizeable piece of land next to the convent school and the open air carpark that is next to the mattar station. Another large piece of land behind the landed properties and several blocks of old 1-2 room
    flats. Those nearby landed property should be worried.
    https://www.onemap.sg/



    https://www.ura.gov.sg/maps/?service=MP

    SLA takes legal possession of 3 landed homes at Merpati Road

    SINGAPORE: Three freehold landed properties at Merpati Road were legally possessed by the Singapore Land Authority (SLA) on Tuesday (Apr 25), as part of the land acquisition process for the future Mattar MRT station on Downtown Line 3 (DTL3) and surrounding developments.
    Read more at http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...i-road-8791026


    Read more at http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...i-road-8791026

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    The 3 blocks of flat will go very soon with Plot ratio of 3.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    https://www.onemap.sg/



    https://www.ura.gov.sg/maps/?service=MP

    SLA takes legal possession of 3 landed homes at Merpati Road

    SINGAPORE: Three freehold landed properties at Merpati Road were legally possessed by the Singapore Land Authority (SLA) on Tuesday (Apr 25), as part of the land acquisition process for the future Mattar MRT station on Downtown Line 3 (DTL3) and surrounding developments.
    Read more at http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...i-road-8791026


    Read more at http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...i-road-8791026

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    First is the Macpherson MRT, then the Matter MRT.

    Once the landed move out and they start building near the MRT that is where the fun begin.

    Like it or not it wouldn't be cheap.

    If you spend Billions of Dollar on the land, whether you like it or not the building will cost more.

    Simple logic, Billions here, Billions there and the Land is cheaper and the property is cheaper is it possible.

    HDB, Landed, PC price rise depends on the money pour into the land.

    UN once did a calculation to build another Singapore City and their conclusion is next to impossible.
    People talk about A you talk about B.

    In any case, NOBODY disagreed with what you wrote above even though it was been repeated ad nauseam.

    BUT.

    I don't know if you realise how contradictory it is, between what is being espoused and the LH nature of properties being held.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuho View Post
    Don't really have to look at historical for pricing. The underlying market dynamic is not static, it changes over time, ALL the time.

    The most recent transaction of Southbank is $1.45 mil, 958 sf unit (99LH, 2006).

    The most recent rental transaction is $4000 pm.

    $4000 pm over 30 years is $1.44 mil.

    (There you go, the quick answer to your question. Nothing to do with money printing right?)

    Balam is HDB, meaning there is no land value to begin with. Maybe a “land squatting value” can be applied?

    Then, what is the multiplier to use for Balam today? How about for the 10-years projection? How about the next next 10-years projection? And going on, at the 99th year the value is still zero tiobo?

    OK lah, maybe there is SERS sibo?

    But what is the attraction of SERS, the government is basically paying you the market rate to possess on one hand, and selling you another at market rate on the other hand (I confess not knowing all the details).

    SERS is unlike a private enbloc, where the owner will get maybe $5 mil instead of $2 mil without an enbloc.
    Already calculated but you also don't know how to interpret the data?

    Right now, Southbank is being transacted at a price assigning $0 to your share value of the land on which the building sits.

    In other words, the buyer (if he is a proxy investor) who paid $1.45 mil recently in April will be able to enjoy full coverage of rental over cost, and still able to reap the residual share value of land.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008 View Post
    The 3 blocks of flat will go very soon with Plot ratio of 3.
    The 3 blocks of HDB flats are rented units and the lessor is HDB itself. Hence, the plot ratio was increased from 2.8 to 3 during Master Plan 2014. HDB will not be selling these flats meant for rental hence no one can benefit from SER.

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    This is a nice piece of land for development as it is just next to landed properties.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amber Woods View Post
    The 3 blocks of HDB flats are rented units and the lessor is HDB itself. Hence, the plot ratio was increased from 2.8 to 3 during Master Plan 2014. HDB will not be selling these flats meant for rental hence no one can benefit from SER.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber Woods View Post
    The 3 blocks of HDB flats are rented units and the lessor is HDB itself. Hence, the plot ratio was increased from 2.8 to 3 during Master Plan 2014. HDB will not be selling these flats meant for rental hence no one can benefit from SER.
    SER is for 99 years leasehold HDB, HDB rental flat tenants will be asked to move to other HDB rental flat.

    The Land will be sold to Private Developer and the money will go into GIC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuho View Post
    People talk about A you talk about B.

    In any case, NOBODY disagreed with what you wrote above even though it was been repeated ad nauseam.

    BUT.

    I don't know if you realise how contradictory it is, between what is being espoused and the LH nature of properties being held.
    Don't be so serious about A and B, now I talk C ok.

    https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/28/go...an-encryption/

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    Default AlphaGO, DeepMind

    Last edited by Arcachon; 27-06-17 at 01:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuho View Post
    Don't really have to look at historical for pricing. The underlying market dynamic is not static, it changes over time, ALL the time.

    The most recent transaction of Southbank is $1.45 mil, 958 sf unit (99LH, 2006).

    The most recent rental transaction is $4000 pm.

    $4000 pm over 30 years is $1.44 mil.

    (There you go, the quick answer to your question. Nothing to do with money printing right?)

    Balam is HDB, meaning there is no land value to begin with. Maybe a “land squatting value” can be applied?

    Then, what is the multiplier to use for Balam today? How about for the 10-years projection? How about the next next 10-years projection? And going on, at the 99th year the value is still zero tiobo?

    OK lah, maybe there is SERS sibo?

    But what is the attraction of SERS, the government is basically paying you the market rate to possess on one hand, and selling you another at market rate on the other hand (I confess not knowing all the details).

    SERS is unlike a private enbloc, where the owner will get maybe $5 mil instead of $2 mil without an enbloc.
    The example above shows the baseline rental value using simple calculation.

    To arrive at the projected rental value, we have to input the funding cost and the rental trend in the pricing model.

    pricing model, rental value d(funding cost, rental trend)

    Funding cost is not the bank financing interest rate, but the hurdle rate that a buyer can normally obtain in alternative investment such as stock, bond, forex etc. And yes, including CPF interest rate.

    In other words, property is but an alternative in the universe of investment options.

    Rental trend is a projection of rental supply and demand, and how the imbalance can influence rental prices in the foreseeable future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Should be rental income + residual value of property (with inflation) at the end of 99 years (then you can compare properties with different remaining lease)
    It is a common practice to compare the pricing of a new launch with the resale transactions done of properties in the vicinity.

    It used to be so easy, and in a buoyant, rising property market the error caused by this kind of simplistic comparison was camouflaged.

    Actually it is not about comparing the resale transactions of surrounding properties , or the asking prices, but the rental value of a property being assessed.

    Our property tax is based on rental value which IRAS called it as annual value.

    In fact, all decisions related to a property, that is whether to buy or rent, whether to monetise a property in the portfolio, can be traced to its rental value.

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