City fringe condos

[Kelonguni]

Oh yes! All the property analysts, developers and agents are saying so. You better faster go and buy now before prices rise further.

I am saying, if those tiki love to wait all these years, please continue to wait, please don't buy.

For those who sincerely think that there is value, this is definitely the time to strike. In fact, the best time has passed already.

I am not selling so there is no benefit on my part. In fact, market goes up, my properties which are smaller or are poorer in location (like Teddy says OCR at 1000 years peak) actually suffer as I may not be able to switch to what I want. So actually I should wish for continued price pressure from properties of better location or size.

[Amber Woods]

I am saying, if those tiki love to wait all these years, please continue to wait, please don't buy.

For those who sincerely think that there is value, this is definitely the time to strike. In fact, the best time has passed already.

I am not selling so there is no benefit on my part. In fact, market goes up, my properties which are smaller or are poorer in location (like Teddy says OCR at 1000 years peak) actually suffer as I may not be able to switch to what I want. So actually I should wish for continued price pressure from properties of better location or size.

If you need to buy, buy into CCR now because prices have fallen by more than 30%.

Prices for ROR and OCR are still at peak high. If need to buy now, proceed with caution.

I hope I am clear so that you can stop making assumptions about my position.

[Developer]

They are vested! Their opinions are just market data. You make your own decision.

Agents I understand, but developers inject real money to bid for land at high prices. What does that mean?

[PropVestor]

Coming back to the main topic of buying city fringe areas (I love to steer 1,000 people back from 1,000 year of topic digression).

I think the heavy bidding for RCR lands added another dimension of upward price pressures. They will certainly bridge some CCR gaps which will make certain segments very happy. Case in point while I am in the queue for Duo Residences, it is close to $1,900 psf back in Nov 2013. At that time, Alex Residences, Bishan apartments and Jurong Gateway are very close to this psf (opening a can of worms for you guessed it, 1,000 year......)

I am not very sure some of those highly bided lands are really worth that kind of price. They are priced for the future indeed. Unless you can tell the future, no one is really qualified to tell you its too expensive or not.

However if you analyse the data for RCR, they are the best compromise for middle class Singaporeans in terms of affordability. I find millennial investors will take on to this pretty well. To that, it will hold long term value in the long run. OCR and CCR prices are more rocky as they either lead the price upwards or downwards more steeply than RCR if we are to measure their straight line.

The best way to invest is to have a balance portfolio of properties in various tiers and locations. Of course, not many have the luxury of doing this. Certainly not me.

2 cents,
PropVestor

[Amber Woods]

Agents I understand, but developers inject real money to bid for land at high prices. What does that mean?

Developers are running a business. No land means no business. The company has fixed costs to pay. Without land to build and sell, they will suffer losses. With land, they can shift some of the costs to the project. Even if their projects do not make profit, their losses can be lesser. That is why, developers will try to outbid each other even in a slow market. They need the land to survive their business.

[Kelonguni]

I am pretty sure you are not vested now.

Pray tell me you are vested now and not looking to buy.

If you need to buy, buy into CCR now because prices have fallen by more than 30%.

Prices for ROR and OCR are still at peak high. If need to buy now, proceed with caution.

I hope I am clear so that you can stop making assumptions about my position.

[Amber Woods]

I am pretty sure you are not vested now.

My opinions are also market data.

I including many others here never talk about their positions in this forum unlike you and Arcachon.

[Kelonguni]

My opinions are also market data.

I including many others here never talk about their positions in this forum unlike you and Arcachon.

I never separate the analyst from their positions. A banking analyst, a journalist, a developer and real estate analyst, they all have different angles.

If I never share my angle, I will be called basing the experience on thin air. All I shared were real life experience.

Now is the time to buy a property with good location - this we can all agree can't we?

[Amber Woods]

I never separate the analyst from their positions. A banking analyst, a journalist, a developer and real estate analyst, they all have different angles.

If I never share my angle, I will be called basing the experience on thin air. All I shared were real life experience.

Now is the time to buy a property with good location - this we can all agree can't we?

The Singapore property market is fragmented unlike before. It is not about good location but good location in which segments? CCR, ROR or OCR? Do not blindly buy into good location.

[Developer]

Thanks Amber.

Spottiswoode Suites is selling its leftover units with 8% discount. Is it worth buying?

We have a place to stay in, but just want to upgrade location.

[Amber Woods]

Thanks Amber.

Spottiswoode Suites is selling its leftover units with 8% discount. Is it worth buying?

We have a place to stay in, but just want to upgrade location.

We need to be very careful when buying into new development like Spottiswoode Suites where the developer builds plenty of small units to make a profit given the high land price they had paid.

1. Examine the final unit (if it already TOP or near TOP) to see for yourself if the size and quality meet your expectation.

2. Look at the prices around the area especially resale unit. Is the price premium justified?

3. For the same price, can you get something bigger or better than SS?

4. What was the launched prices (check URA's website) and see if you are getting a good deal from the developer.

Location wise, it is a good location but surrounded by HDB flats. Good for own stay but the size can be too small for a family unless you go for the bigger unit which quantum wise make it more difficult to make the decision because with that kind of price, you can get much bigger FH unit elsewhere in equally good location.

[Developer]

Amber,

Many thanks. Will do the homework.

We don't like to live in a place where others lived in before. So we didn't check resale units.

Agent said the location is part of the future Greater Southern Waterfront and the nearby Cantonment MRT is under construction. So there is a chance of appreciation. In front are conservation houses and the view will never be blocked. Despite the small size, the floor-to-floor height is 3.6m, which means there is some space you can play with.

I don't have any idea how much the price difference would be between two units with 2.8m and 3.6m ceiling height respectively, assuming everything else is the same.

It is in the process of TOP.

Agent said the current price is the lowest in the history of this project, but I am not sure if the market will go lower further.

We have viewed some new condos in Districts 2 and 3 but prefer this location.

If this is not a good time to buy, we don't have to buy.

Before making a decision, we would appreciate it if the gurus in this forum can give some advice.

[Kelonguni]

While you think about it, people will be queuing to ballot for it.

If good location and new are your criteria, and you can afford, I say go for it. I hope I have the bullets now but too bad...

For some people's logic, HDB will always win. Or old freehold units. They are looking at another kind of value, which may not be relevant to you.

Amber,

Many thanks. Will do the homework.

We don't like to live in a place where others lived in before. So we didn't check resale units.

Agent said the location is part of the future Greater Southern Waterfront and the nearby Cantonment MRT is under construction. So there is a chance of appreciation. In front are conservation houses and the view will never be blocked. Despite the small size, the floor-to-floor height is 3.6m, which means there is some space you can play with.

I don't have any idea how much the price difference would be between two units with 2.8m and 3.6m ceiling height respectively, assuming everything else is the same.

It is in the process of TOP.

Agent said the current price is the lowest in the history of this project, but I am not sure if the market will go lower further.

We have viewed some new condos in Districts 2 and 3 but prefer this location.

If this is not a good time to buy, we don't have to buy.

Before making a decision, we would appreciate it if the gurus in this forum can give some advice.

[tonymontana]

Amber,

Many thanks. Will do the homework.

We don't like to live in a place where others lived in before. So we didn't check resale units.

Agent said the location is part of the future Greater Southern Waterfront and the nearby Cantonment MRT is under construction. So there is a chance of appreciation. In front are conservation houses and the view will never be blocked. Despite the small size, the floor-to-floor height is 3.6m, which means there is some space you can play with.

I don't have any idea how much the price difference would be between two units with 2.8m and 3.6m ceiling height respectively, assuming everything else is the same.

It is in the process of TOP.

Agent said the current price is the lowest in the history of this project, but I am not sure if the market will go lower further.

We have viewed some new condos in Districts 2 and 3 but prefer this location.

If this is not a good time to buy, we don't have to buy.

Before making a decision, we would appreciate it if the gurus in this forum can give some advice.

IMO:

freehold older condo have better value.
since you prefer brand new and it's for own stay, just buy (or don't buy) whichever you like best.
btw i see some confirmation bias in your posting.
just fyi, there are people (like me) who don't go for all those fancy stuff. i like to buy resale, older, freehold condo, location is of paramount importance.
once i got the location right AND i don't massively overpay for a unit there, the rest of the plan automatically clicks into place (even if market isn't so great).
in a strong up market, buy new sale off-plan is a good idea as one can see immediate gains when VP
for current market, i don't see the strong V shape recovery. it'll just go gradually up. so no rush to buy, but market is for sure turning positive.
i also don't see a lot more downside going forward barring any black swan event.. so if those want to buy now, can also.

[Developer]

Thanks Kelonguni and tonymontana.

Many of you said or hinted that winter is coming and staying for a long time. That's why I hesitate. I don't want to suffer in the winter even if I can survive. Paper loss is also a loss. And I have a choice to buy in the winter.

[Amber Woods]

Amber,

Many thanks. Will do the homework.

We don't like to live in a place where others lived in before. So we didn't check resale units.

Agent said the location is part of the future Greater Southern Waterfront and the nearby Cantonment MRT is under construction. So there is a chance of appreciation. In front are conservation houses and the view will never be blocked. Despite the small size, the floor-to-floor height is 3.6m, which means there is some space you can play with.

I don't have any idea how much the price difference would be between two units with 2.8m and 3.6m ceiling height respectively, assuming everything else is the same.

It is in the process of TOP.

Agent said the current price is the lowest in the history of this project, but I am not sure if the market will go lower further.

We have viewed some new condos in Districts 2 and 3 but prefer this location.

If this is not a good time to buy, we don't have to buy.

Before making a decision, we would appreciate it if the gurus in this forum can give some advice.

I was in your situation before but the market was moving up already for 2 years. I looked at the peak prices around the area and took comfort that even if I buy now, I would still be buying 20% below the last peak price. So I went in and that decision turned out to be good.

You are buying when the market is very fragmented. CCR prices that have corrected are mostly resale units but not so much for new units. SS is a bit of CCR or ROR depending on how you view it. ROR prices are still at near peak. So in another word, SS prices are still at near peak launch price.

You need to do some research to find out if there are developments around the area selling at higher prices than SS during the last peak? If there are, than you can take comfort that there is some room for appreciation if the market turns around. If there isn't. than better stay clear.

[Khng8]

Floor to fooor height is not the same as ceiling height.

[indomie]

I was in your situation before but the market was moving up already for 2 years. I looked at the peak prices around the area and took comfort that even if I buy now, I would still be buying 20% below the last peak price. So I went in and that decision turned out to be good.

You are buying when the market is very fragmented. CCR prices that have corrected are mostly resale units but not so much for new units. SS is a bit of CCR or ROR depending on how you view it. ROR prices are still at near peak. So in another word, SS prices are still at near peak launch price.

You need to do some research to find out if there are developments around the area selling at higher prices than SS during the last peak? If there are, than you can take comfort that there is some room for appreciation if the market turns around. If there isn't. than better stay clear.

I think focusing on capital gain is outdated. Buying on the cheap is outdated. Looking at historic high and low is outdated. U had a method that works in the past and now u expect to work in the future. Now better better look at tenancy. If a property has high rental and high tenancy....it worth paying the top dollar.

[Developer]

Thanks Amber and indomie.

SS psf price looks higher than S18 and S Residences, but SS has no bay window and no planter box while the latter have.

Developer is giving 8% discount from launch price in 2013.

I work nearby and also like Outram Park Interchange (3 lines) connecting everywhere.

Amber, indomie, Kelonguni and tonymontana, I am not arguing with you but just to let you know what I am thinking.

[Amber Woods]

I think focusing on capital gain is outdated. Buying on the cheap is outdated. Looking at historic high and low is outdated. U had a method that works in the past and now u expect to work in the future. Now better better look at tenancy. If a property has high rental and high tenancy....it worth paying the top dollar.

The fundamentals of property buying have not changed.

[Developer]

Floor to fooor height is not the same as ceiling height.

This one I know. Thanks. I didn't put it correctly.

[Khng8]

No worries. Just hope no one gets snooped by agent.

[tonymontana]

Thanks Kelonguni and tonymontana.

Many of you said or hinted that winter is coming and staying for a long time. That's why I hesitate. I don't want to suffer in the winter even if I can survive. Paper loss is also a loss. And I have a choice to buy in the winter.

The only place Winter is Coming for sure 100%, is on Game of Thrones.

for singapore property market, we're all guessing.

[teddybear]

Property's Good location means some where in CCR convenient location where the RICH and influential lives (and there is no HDB flats within 1km).......

Property's Good attributes means MUST be Freehold, with underground MRT station and shopping malls nearby within walking distance (<500m), good facing, good feng shui, high floor, no west sun,...........

I never separate the analyst from their positions. A banking analyst, a journalist, a developer and real estate analyst, they all have different angles.

If I never share my angle, I will be called basing the experience on thin air. All I shared were real life experience.

Now is the time to buy a property with good location - this we can all agree can't we?

[teddybear]

Based on your logic, you should only buy HDB flat with >5% net rental yield! (No where you can get net rental yield >5% for private properties)

I think focusing on capital gain is outdated. Buying on the cheap is outdated. Looking at historic high and low is outdated. U had a method that works in the past and now u expect to work in the future. Now better better look at tenancy. If a property has high rental and high tenancy....it worth paying the top dollar.

[Arcachon]

Based on your logic, you should only buy HDB flat with >5% net rental yield! (No where you can get net rental yield >5% for private properties)

B4 Jun 2006 or after Jun 2006.

[CCR]

Can someone enlighten me, USA index shows prices have drop 12% but Developers are bidding land at record prices... even higher than the last peak... why is that so?

[anythingwhatever]

Property's Good location means some where in CCR convenient location where the RICH and influential lives (and there is no HDB flats within 1km).......

Property's Good attributes means MUST be Freehold, with underground MRT station and shopping malls nearby within walking distance (<500m), good facing, good feng shui, high floor, no west sun,...........

By this definition, every location outside CCR is poor?

OK you win...

[Kelonguni]

Actually I never said winter coming. If anything, I was amongst the first to declare spring.

The current situation feels very 2007 to 2008 again, with lots of new and renewed blood coming back to the market, except this time round, there is no 2009 due to TDSR since 2013.

World banking systems have ensured that sub prime type of collapse are avoided, and monetary printing will still not be weaned off as far as one can see into the horizon.

Very much goes back to your intention in buying. For me, it just makes sense to buy more provided my cash plus TDSR clears.

In the meantime, huat huat big from stocks!

Thanks Kelonguni and tonymontana.

Many of you said or hinted that winter is coming and staying for a long time. That's why I hesitate. I don't want to suffer in the winter even if I can survive. Paper loss is also a loss. And I have a choice to buy in the winter.

[Developer]

Thanks, Kelonguni, for all your advice. I will buy, maybe not SS leftover units but something better.