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Thread: City fringe condos

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    arcachon, your southbank was only 428k in 2006? that's good returns.
    Was 535K for 2 Bedroom 958 sqft (99 years leasehold), down 20% 108K loan 428K for 28 years.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuho View Post
    ?

    You have a million, and thinking of doing two millions so didn't sound like a noob to me.

    So in your case, 5 years ago when D12 property was bought how much was the capital deployed and how much was the loan amount and tenure? And presumably the mortgage payments were completely funded from rental income?

    It is better to illustrate using real data, even though by asking for it it can be intrusive to you.
    one can have 5 million and still be a novice. conversely, one can have only 300k and be a seasoned investor. it's not really the quantum but the mindset. Unfortunately we often gain the mindset only when we're much older.
    So kudos to those here below 40 who're invested in projects like Duo , or some other CCR condo. it will pay off in the long run and you guys are still not getting "over the hill" like me.

    at 28 y.o, with 95% of capital stuck in one PC, that's not a fantastic move, unless that person only buying for own use and is not interested in property investment. There are still many folks out there who are traditional and conservative, they keep their money save in FD.

    how i know,? becos i also made that mistake with my first property. bank wanted to loan me 80% i only took 50% loan.

    now we're on our N-th property, bank cannot loan me anything more than 50% LTV when i would have like to leverage a bit more.

    another not so great move is not buying HDB for first property. which was also my mistake. Single at 28 how to buy HDB, you say? The answer is simple: get married early!
    Last edited by tonymontana; 25-07-17 at 08:58.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    one can have 5 million and still be a novice. conversely, one can have only 300k and be a seasoned investor. it's not really the quantum but the mindset. Unfortunately we often gain the mindset only when we're much older.
    So kudos to those here below 40 who're invested in projects like Duo , or some other CCR condo. it will pay off in the long run and you guys are still not getting "over the hill" like me.

    at 28 y.o, with 95% of capital stuck in one PC, that's not a fantastic move, unless that person only buying for own use and is not interested in property investment. There are still many folks out there who are traditional and conservative, they keep their money save in FD.

    how i know,? becos i also made that mistake with my first property. bank wanted to loan me 80% i only took 50% loan.

    now we're on our N-th property, bank cannot loan me anything more than 50% LTV when i would have like to leverage a bit more.

    another not so great move is not buying HDB for first property. which was also my mistake. Single at 28 how to buy HDB, you say? The answer is simple: get married early!
    Everyone learn the hard way including me, but even if you will to share not many will accept it because they also need to learn the hard way.

    Our School system, Social network made us what we are only way is to re program yourself and get out of the Box.

    I started my re programming in 2010 when Southbank TOP and UOB value it at 1.55 million.

    Bought it for 535K, same building, same location but when TOP cost 1.55 million.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Everyone learn the hard way including me, but even if you will to share not many will accept it because they also need to learn the hard way.
    Agree!

    Hard time has not hit us since 2009 so not many people have the experience learning the hard way yet.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Was 535K for 2 Bedroom 958 sqft (99 years leasehold), down 20% 108K loan 428K for 28 years.
    oh i c. nonetheless, good returns :thumbs up

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber Woods View Post
    Agree!

    Hard time has not hit us since 2009 so not many people have the experience learning the hard way yet.
    True, was in the market since my first HDB in 1988 being through so many cycles.

    Each cycle made you stronger.



    http://www.area.com.sg/singapore-property-cycle/

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Everyone learn the hard way including me, but even if you will to share not many will accept it because they also need to learn the hard way.

    Our School system, Social network made us what we are only way is to re program yourself and get out of the Box.

    I started my re programming in 2010 when Southbank TOP and UOB value it at 1.55 million.

    Bought it for 535K, same building, same location but when TOP cost 1.55 million.
    you're right, i'm only telling my uncle stories becos i'm a bit bored now. if i could turn back the clock, i would definitely do things very differently.
    anyway there are many people who r risk averse, for eg my parents, my opinion is No right, No wrong. do what is comfortable as long as Rule No 1: Don't make your bank become your enemy. haha

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    True, was in the market since my first HDB in 1988 being through so many cycles.

    Each cycle made you stronger.
    True!

    Some people buy and buy with max leverage and never recovered during a prolong bad time. Most prudent investors survive and became stronger.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    one can have 5 million and still be a novice. conversely, one can have only 300k and be a seasoned investor. it's not really the quantum but the mindset. Unfortunately we often gain the mindset only when we're much older.
    So kudos to those here below 40 who're invested in projects like Duo , or some other CCR condo. it will pay off in the long run and you guys are still not getting "over the hill" like me.

    at 28 y.o, with 95% of capital stuck in one PC, that's not a fantastic move, unless that person only buying for own use and is not interested in property investment. There are still many folks out there who are traditional and conservative, they keep their money save in FD.

    how i know,? becos i also made that mistake with my first property. bank wanted to loan me 80% i only took 50% loan.

    now we're on our N-th property, bank cannot loan me anything more than 50% LTV when i would have like to leverage a bit more.

    another not so great move is not buying HDB for first property. which was also my mistake. Single at 28 how to buy HDB, you say? The answer is simple: get married early!
    You have plenty of knowledge and wisdom to share. Glad to learn from you. You still have N-th property to speak of. Those of us who invest now has really high barriers.

  10. #130
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    you cash out 660K from Southbank in 2011 to buy Terrasse, right? then 750K-660k = 90k is the cash used or you get another loan of 90K? thanks.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    True, was in the market since my first HDB in 1988 being through so many cycles.

    Each cycle made you stronger.



    http://www.area.com.sg/singapore-property-cycle/
    You have the chart up to 2017?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiona2004 View Post
    you cash out 660K from Southbank in 2011 to buy Terrasse, right? then 750K-660k = 90k is the cash used or you get another loan of 90K? thanks.
    Terrasse is a 3 Bedroom Penthouse (smallest in the development) cost 1305800 + 3%-5400

    Loan for Terrasse is 750k

    Pay = 1305800-750,000 from 660,000 balance use as my war reserve

    Another word mean I loan 750K+660K for 1305.8K

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by anythingwhatever View Post
    You have the chart up to 2017?


    http://sbr.com.sg/economy/news/chart...rrections-1983



    https://www.icompareloan.com/resourc.../#!prettyPhoto
    Last edited by Arcachon; 25-07-17 at 11:10.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Terrasse is a 3 Bedroom Penthouse (smallest in the development) cost 1305800 + 3%-5400

    Loan for Terrasse is 750k

    Pay = 1305800-750,000 from 660,000 balance use as my war reserve

    Another word mean I loan 750K+660K for 1305.8K
    so you don't have to pay any cash for your Terrasse! Thanks for sharing!

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Terrasse is a 3 Bedroom Penthouse (smallest in the development) cost 1305800 + 3%-5400

    Loan for Terrasse is 750k

    Pay = 1305800-750,000 from 660,000 balance use as my war reserve

    Another word mean I loan 750K+660K for 1305.8K
    You have been repeating these over many years and many many times in many many threads.

    Can I suggest you start a separate thread titled "Arcachon's Properties" and one for all. Save your efforts

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiona2004 View Post
    so you don't have to pay any cash for your Terrasse! Thanks for sharing!
    All Digital number in the Bank system.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    You have plenty of knowledge and wisdom to share. Glad to learn from you. ....
    Those of us who invest now has really high barriers.
    you're hardly a novice, from your sharing in this forum - you're more experienced than me.
    my latest acquisition was pricey. and rental isn't great as well (although positively geared). but i still feel it's safer to invest in singapore property than other investments.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna View Post
    You have been repeating these over many years and many many times in many many threads.

    Can I suggest you start a separate thread titled "Arcachon's Properties" and one for all. Save your efforts
    Finger strength effort, also need to spend my time, too free now.

    Also help me to remember what to do next.

    Not a bad idea also, maybe reporter can think something about your suggestion.

    In SAF you get 2 dollar for the suggestion. You can even recycle your suggestion year after year.
    Last edited by Arcachon; 25-07-17 at 17:02.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Finger strength effort, also need to spend my time, too free now.

    Also help me to remember what to do next.

    Not a bad idea also, maybe reporter can think something about your suggestion.

    In SAF you get 2 dollar for the suggestion. You can even recycle your suggestion year after year.
    Only lousy organisations can't detect recycled suggestions or staff is of poor quality just to meet the KPI
    You just DO IT...no need to wait for others to think about

  20. #140
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    FH landed properties in prime district bought in the 60s have achieved massive capital gain. It would have cost just $20,000 then. Time your property purchased at each cycle of dip before 2010 would have seen substantial gain now. Do you think there will be the next peak after this dip?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    True, was in the market since my first HDB in 1988 being through so many cycles.

    Each cycle made you stronger.



    http://www.area.com.sg/singapore-property-cycle/

  21. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008 View Post
    FH landed properties in prime district bought in the 60s have achieved massive capital gain. It would have cost just $20,000 then. Time your property purchased at each cycle of dip before 2010 would have seen substantial gain now. Do you think there will be the next peak after this dip?
    Every commodity, include property, have its own up and down.

    But for property, there are many man-made factors, controlling its supply and demand via govt measures. All govt in the world are getting smarter in managing the prices of properties (perhaps, other than HK or core city areas as supply is too limited). As such, IMHO, there would not be another spike in property prices. If it is an uptrend, it will be a very gradual uptrend. If market is heated, more cooling measures will likely be introduced. Or the market pricing is in winter, some non-structure cooling measures will be lifted. I do not see any substantial gain in property prices for short term holders of less than say 10 years.

    It is definitely good, to hold good quality freehold properties on hand and IMHO, it is always a must for a prudent investor as well.

    I experienced two property down-turns, the paper losses made me sleepless as I was badly over-stretched and definitely, I would not want that to happen again to me.

    I have structured my investment now in a much more balanced portfolio, around 40% in liquid investment and 60% in properties. I think it is right weight assigned. I am targetting 50/50 for liquid investment and property next year.

  22. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna View Post
    Only lousy organisations can't detect recycled suggestions or staff is of poor quality just to meet the KPI
    You just DO IT...no need to wait for others to think about
    Not bad for a Small city state, that was 10 years ago, maybe they are better now.

  23. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna View Post
    Every commodity, include property, have its own up and down.

    But for property, there are many man-made factors, controlling its supply and demand via govt measures. All govt in the world are getting smarter in managing the prices of properties (perhaps, other than HK or core city areas as supply is too limited). As such, IMHO, there would not be another spike in property prices. If it is an uptrend, it will be a very gradual uptrend. If market is heated, more cooling measures will likely be introduced. Or the market pricing is in winter, some non-structure cooling measures will be lifted. I do not see any substantial gain in property prices for short term holders of less than say 10 years.

    It is definitely good, to hold good quality freehold properties on hand and IMHO, it is always a must for a prudent investor as well.

    I experienced two property down-turns, the paper losses made me sleepless as I was badly over-stretched and definitely, I would not want that to happen again to me.

    I have structured my investment now in a much more balanced portfolio, around 40% in liquid investment and 60% in properties. I think it is right weight assigned. I am targetting 50/50 for liquid investment and property next year.
    Agreed.

    All the data (economic, demographic, land price, segmental x-ref pricing etc) I am looking at are suggesting more of an opportunity to underweight property in this cycle, to transfer some risks to the brave.

    As Amber put it aptly, the market has became fragmented.

    Not seeing rental values catching up soon; it is still going to be a renter market, not landlord’s.

  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    You are right, mine all within MAS Guidelines.

    200K(5 room HDB) - 1995
    428K(Southbank) - 2006
    660K(Southbank Cash out) - 2011
    750K(Terrasse) - 2011

    wow 6 years no action, very itchy.



    https://www.srx.com.sg/cooling-measures
    $660 k is Southbank’s realised profit?

    (I asked the financial only because you are so keen to share it publicly)

  25. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    You are right, mine all within MAS Guidelines.

    200K(5 room HDB) - 1995
    428K(Southbank) - 2006
    660K(Southbank Cash out) - 2011
    750K(Terrasse) - 2011

    wow 6 years no action, very itchy.



    https://www.srx.com.sg/cooling-measures
    Wah, Sifu, Salute!!

  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna View Post
    You have been repeating these over many years and many many times in many many threads.

    Can I suggest you start a separate thread titled "Arcachon's Properties" and one for all. Save your efforts
    Rather seeing these than the repeating Millions Ears Peek Prize.

    Anyway, an Arcachon's Properties' thread is a good idea too haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna View Post
    Every commodity, include property, have its own up and down.

    But for property, there are many man-made factors, controlling its supply and demand via govt measures. All govt in the world are getting smarter in managing the prices of properties (perhaps, other than HK or core city areas as supply is too limited). As such, IMHO, there would not be another spike in property prices. If it is an uptrend, it will be a very gradual uptrend. If market is heated, more cooling measures will likely be introduced. Or the market pricing is in winter, some non-structure cooling measures will be lifted. I do not see any substantial gain in property prices for short term holders of less than say 10 years.

    It is definitely good, to hold good quality freehold properties on hand and IMHO, it is always a must for a prudent investor as well.

    I experienced two property down-turns, the paper losses made me sleepless as I was badly over-stretched and definitely, I would not want that to happen again to me.

    I have structured my investment now in a much more balanced portfolio, around 40% in liquid investment and 60% in properties. I think it is right weight assigned. I am targetting 50/50 for liquid investment and property next year.
    Very sound advice.

    As for Arcachon, what he did was he refinanced his Southbank at 2011 valuation price and cash out $660K to buy The Terrasse with another $750K loan increasing his total debt to $1.3m. This method is taught by most gurus in property seminars often using catchy phase like "buy property without zero cash".

    If property prices in RCR decline by 30% as predicted by Terrybear comes true, Arcachon's Southbank and The Terrassa valuations will be reduced by 30% and his bank may ask him to top up the difference because his loan of $1.3 m exceeds the total LTV at 60% now. Arcachon can become over-stretched or over-leveraged in this case. He may be forced to sell off one of his property.

    Do not envy his portfolio blindly without looking at his high debt borrowed at 2011 prices.

  28. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber Woods View Post
    Very sound advice.

    As for Arcachon, what he did was he refinanced his Southbank at 2011 valuation price and cash out $660K to buy The Terrasse with another $750K loan increasing his total debt to $1.3m. This method is taught by most gurus in property seminars often using catchy phase like "buy property without zero cash".

    If property prices in RCR decline by 30% as predicted by Terrybear comes true, Arcachon's Southbank and The Terrassa valuations will be reduced by 30% and his bank may ask him to top up the difference because his loan of $1.3 m exceeds the total LTV at 60% now. Arcachon can become over-stretched or over-leveraged in this case. He may be forced to sell off one of his property.

    Do not envy his portfolio blindly without looking at his high debt borrowed at 2011 prices.
    I watched Grant Cardone show on youtube. He is a US based property guru. During the subprime crash he had his valuation crushed and the bank calling on him to top up the difference. He refused and bank calling on him in technical default. He continued making his regular payment in an escrow account, while the bank making their case in the court of law. In the end he won. The bank can't force you to foreclosure if you make regular payment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indomie View Post
    I watched Grant Cardone show on youtube. He is a US based property guru. During the subprime crash he had his valuation crushed and the bank calling on him to top up the difference. He refused and bank calling on him in technical default. He continued making his regular payment in an escrow account, while the bank making their case in the court of law. In the end he won. The bank can't force you to foreclosure if you make regular payment.

    The problem is Arcachon is currently in negative cash position. Provided he can continue to pay his mortgage payment faithfully, he will be forced to sell.

    Our banking laws here also required borrower to satisfy LTV as per MAS's requirements.

  30. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuho View Post
    $660 k is Southbank’s realised profit?

    (I asked the financial only because you are so keen to share it publicly)
    All loan

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