D9 and D11, which district is better?

[teddybear]

Why you call me "Uncle"? I could be "Auntie" you know? Who knows, I could be younger than you!

Anyway, actually everybody has different view, so you should read all our views here and make your own decision.
However, if I am you, I would:

1) I will only focus on Feehold D9,10,11 condo (no 99-years leasehold).
Don't buy any condo estate with <100 units.
Only buy those condo estates with sufficient facilities - meaning should have reasonable size swimming pool, should have at least 1 tennis court for about 150 units (meaning if 600 units should ideally have 4 tennis courts).
You will say difficult now, yes, difficult for new launch because they mostly sucks because trying to squeeze many units into 1 estate with insufficient facilities!

2) I would wait for the property crash to come (likely 2020 or thereafter) if buying OCR. However, D9-D11 is not really expensive at this stage (vs OCR), so there are bargains to be had (selectively).

3) Property market will continue to hum along for next few years till the next crash.

4) No surprising to me. My view is that the more US increase interest rate, the more property price and stock price will go up (until everything crash)!

Good night Uncle Teddybear.

I note that you are an active member in this forum and it appears that you are very familiar with the property market.
I would like to obtain your view:

1) Based on the current market, do you suggest me to continue looking for 2nd hand condo in D9,10,11 or shift my focus to other districts or go direct ahead for new launch, such as martin modern?

2) As the market seems recovering (actually quite bullish based on what I have seen), if I cannot find any target in this weekend, do you suggest me to wait for a while until the market cool down or don't stop and continue my property search?

3) Do you think the recent property market recovery is a long lasting one, say at least last for 1-2 years.

Actually, I am very surprise that the market hardened despite the U.S. keep increasing interest rate!

Thanks.

[Hakuho]

Why you call me "Uncle"? I could be "Auntie" you know? Who knows, I could be younger than you!

Anyway, actually everybody has different view, so you should read all our views here and make your own decision.
However, if I am you, I would:

1) I will only focus on Feehold D9,10,11 condo (no 99-years leasehold).
Don't buy any condo estate with <100 units.
Only buy those condo estates with sufficient facilities - meaning should have reasonable size swimming pool, should have at least 1 tennis court for about 150 units (meaning if 600 units should ideally have 4 tennis courts).
You will say difficult now, yes, difficult for new launch because they mostly sucks because trying to squeeze many units into 1 estate with insufficient facilities!

2) I would wait for the property crash to come (likely 2020 or thereafter) if buying OCR. However, D9-D11 is not really expensive at this stage (vs OCR), so there are bargains to be had (selectively).

3) Property market will continue to hum along for next few years till the next crash.

4) No surprising to me. My view is that the more US increase interest rate, the more property price and stock price will go up (until everything crash)!

OCR, I don't really see a price crash, barring a major event similar to 1998 AFC.

However, the market is increasingly fragmented meaning we will be seeing more and more CCR pricing in RCR and probably also OCR in future. For example, the new units for The Albracca enbloc will probably be in today’s CCR price range.

Therefore, if a buyer is willing to pay CCR price range today, he should look at CCR units to buy. There are right-sized units to be considered.

As for TS, I will suggest that he should find out what he wants firstly. He must like the area he is buying, and the only way to know the area is to walk the ground. Evaluate a property the old-fashioned way; location, facing, space, layout etc. Don't buy a property based solely on price, price is not value.

In Bazi FS theory, there is a saying “one is not looking for the property, rather the property is looking for its owner”. The appropriate property will look for him.

[oldfreehold]

i did a check recently, 1.6m rental 3k. hardly stellar. The same unit was in the region of 450k in 2006 to 2007. So you'll be fighting against all these old timers.
many "nighclub" hostess looking types hanging around outside in the late evenings, going to work. (alright, to be fair, i haven't visited this area around evenings for a long time already).

I doubt DCC (who is buying for own stay) would like pacific mansion.

1.6M 1528 sqft fully usable space. Only 1000+ psf. It's a D9 freehold. In 2007, the unit cost more than 1M. 450k maybe 1994 price. Rental easily 4k for whole unit, those tenant will rent the whole house and sublet, max rent easily achieve 5k to 6k. @1.6m, which d9 freehold can achieve that ? Some more, it has en bloc potential. Those old freehold in D9 and D10 are truly gold mine .
For own stay, buy those high floor city facing unit also not bad, layout is very efficient and stunning view. Of coz, if you have 3M budget， go for river gate.

[DCC]

I made an offer on Sunday (the unit is asking for 2.2m and I offer 2m) and was rejected by the owner yesterday night.
As 2m is the maximum that I can afford, I will look for another condo.

[oldfreehold]

2m budget go for Sophia area, Sophia residence also not bad. 2m can get a compact 3 bedder. Location superb.

[DCC]

2m budget go for Sophia area, Sophia residence also not bad. 2m can get a compact 3 bedder. Location superb.

I can only afford 10XX sqft (mid floor) of Sophia Residence.
The problem of this project are:
- Sophia Road entrance is next to Peace Centre with some night clubs
- The open kitchen and big balcony

Anyway, will consider it if no better choice.

[HP65]

I made an offer on Sunday (the unit is asking for 2.2m and I offer 2m) and was rejected by the owner yesterday night.
As 2m is the maximum that I can afford, I will look for another condo.

Mind sharing the listing? Just to sense the market and to see if the owner is `serious'. PM me if you prefer. Thanks in advance!

[HP65]

I can only afford 10XX sqft (mid floor) of Sophia Residence.
The problem of this project are:
- Sophia Road entrance is next to Peace Centre with some night clubs
- The open kitchen and big balcony

Anyway, will consider it if no better choice.

Do note the contractor or was it the sub-con went bust. Project completion was delayed so be careful when considering this project. I would avoid this coz i'm not sure if the previous contractor had cut corners (since it was facing financial issue) and what pressure the new contractor was under to complete the project...

[tonymontana]

1.6M 1528 sqft fully usable space. Only 1000+ psf. It's a D9 freehold. In 2007, the unit cost more than 1M. 450k maybe 1994 price. Rental easily 4k for whole unit, those tenant will rent the whole house and sublet, max rent easily achieve 5k to 6k. @1.6m, which d9 freehold can achieve that ? Some more, it has en bloc potential. Those old freehold in D9 and D10 are truly gold mine .
For own stay, buy those high floor city facing unit also not bad, layout is very efficient and stunning view. Of coz, if you have 3M budget， go for river gate.

in 2004, 520k, 1528 sft. I remember quite clearly during recession time, it was very cheap. even there were units asking below 500, no takers.

as for your mode of rental, yes, i agree, but that is a troublesome way of doing rental, potentially got lots of problems , but for whole units rental you can check rental contracts is 3k+ only.

26 Jun 2004
8
#03 - xx
1,528 sqft
142 sqm
S$520,000
(S$340.21 psf)


PACIFIC MANSION RIVER VALLEY CLOSE 09 Non-landed Properties 3 3,700 1500 to 1600 Jun-17
PACIFIC MANSION RIVER VALLEY CLOSE 09 Non-landed Properties 3 3,400 1300 to 1400 Jun-17
PACIFIC MANSION RIVER VALLEY CLOSE 09 Non-landed Properties 3 3,000 1300 to 1400 Jun-17
PACIFIC MANSION RIVER VALLEY CLOSE 09 Non-landed Properties 3 3,700 1300 to 1400 Jun-17
PACIFIC MANSION RIVER VALLEY CLOSE 09 Non-landed Properties 3 3,300 1500 to 1600 Jun-17
PACIFIC MANSION RIVER VALLEY CLOSE 09 Non-landed Properties 3 3,500 1500 to 1600 Jun-17
PACIFIC MANSION RIVER VALLEY CLOSE 09 Non-landed Properties 3 4,000 1500 to 1600 May-17

[DCC]

Mind sharing the listing? Just to sense the market and to see if the owner is `serious'. PM me if you prefer. Thanks in advance!

Sorry, cannot share the listing now as I am still looking for a condo with limited budget and many buyers are competing with me.
I can only say that all condos that I have visited are in D9 and D11.

[DCC]

in 2004, 520k, 1528 sft. I remember quite clearly during recession time, it was very cheap. even there were units asking below 500, no takers.

as for your mode of rental, yes, i agree, but that is a troublesome way of doing rental, potentially got lots of problems , but for whole units rental you can check rental contracts is 3k+ only.

26 Jun 2004
8
#03 - xx
1,528 sqft
142 sqm
S$520,000
(S$340.21 psf)

Execuse me, where can I get 2003-2004 transaction price?

[HP65]

Sorry, cannot share the listing now as I am still looking for a condo with limited budget and many buyers are competing with me.
I can only say that all condos that I have visited are in D9 and D11.

Haha...no worries. But dun worry lah....there are plenty of supply out there for you to pick and choose. But try to go for quality product, better to pay a bit more and get a smaller unit with better attributes than just the biggest you can find

[teddybear]

True only for OCR 99-years leasehold private condos............

Yet ironically people are buying OCR 99-years leasehold private condos at THOUSAND YEARS historical peak price as though there is serious shortage...................

Haha...no worries. But dun worry lah....there are plenty of supply out there for you to pick and choose. But try to go for quality product, better to pay a bit more and get a smaller unit with better attributes than just the biggest you can find

[DCC]

excuse me, I am doing mortgage assessment now (I am going to give another offer tonight).
The banker tells me that I can use my CPF ordinary account for down payment, afterward I can choose to use part of my monthly CPF contribution to pay for part of the mortgage, which seems to be very good. However, for the fund that I "borrow" from the CPF, I need to pay interest back to CPF when I sell the condo in the future.

My questions are:
1) How much interest I need to pay when I sell the condo? Any link I can find the information? (my agent and the banker don't know the answer =.=)
2) I only have limited budget, just enough to make the down payment and paid all the expense/tax/fees. Is it a good idea to use CPF balance & monthly CPF contribution for my property?

Thanks.

[tonymontana]

excuse me, I am doing mortgage assessment now (I am going to give another offer tonight).
The banker tells me that I can use my CPF ordinary account for down payment, afterward I can choose to use part of my monthly CPF contribution to pay for part of the mortgage, which seems to be very good. However, for the fund that I "borrow" from the CPF, I need to pay interest back to CPF when I sell the condo in the future.

My questions are:
1) How much interest I need to pay when I sell the condo? Any link I can find the information? (my agent and the banker don't know the answer =.=)
2) I only have limited budget, just enough to make the down payment and paid all the expense/tax/fees. Is it a good idea to use CPF balance & monthly CPF contribution for my property?

Thanks.

1) Whatever CPF monies that were used to fund the property (down or monthly) will be accrued and the prevailing rate of CPF OA will apply to the accrued amount. I think it's 2.5% currently, but the CPF OA interest rate may change. Not to worry, every time you log in your myCPF portal, you will see the amount of "accrued interest" itemized very clearly, (including amount used for property), so you will have a blow by blow account at any time.

2) It depends what your plan is, and whether your returns can outperform the 2.5% CPF OA interest. some people say YES cos the money is "stuck" anyway so better to use it, some people say NO cos the loan interest rate is lower than the CPF interest.

anyway good luck.

[Arcachon]

excuse me, I am doing mortgage assessment now (I am going to give another offer tonight).
The banker tells me that I can use my CPF ordinary account for down payment, afterward I can choose to use part of my monthly CPF contribution to pay for part of the mortgage, which seems to be very good. However, for the fund that I "borrow" from the CPF, I need to pay interest back to CPF when I sell the condo in the future.

My questions are:
1) How much interest I need to pay when I sell the condo? Any link I can find the information? (my agent and the banker don't know the answer =.=)
2) I only have limited budget, just enough to make the down payment and paid all the expense/tax/fees. Is it a good idea to use CPF balance & monthly CPF contribution for my property?

Thanks.

So far my two PC using cash because I cannot get return more than 2.5%.

[DCC]

1) Whatever CPF monies that were used to fund the property (down or monthly) will be accrued and the prevailing rate of CPF OA will apply to the accrued amount. I think it's 2.5% currently, but the CPF OA interest rate may change. Not to worry, every time you log in your myCPF portal, you will see the amount of "accrued interest" itemized very clearly, (including amount used for property), so you will have a blow by blow account at any time.

2) It depends what your plan is, and whether your returns can outperform the 2.5% CPF OA interest. some people say YES cos the money is "stuck" anyway so better to use it, some people say NO cos the loan interest rate is lower than the CPF interest.

anyway good luck.

Thanks.

One more question.

If I stay in the condo for a very long time until I retire, do I still need to pay the interest? i.e. is there any cap/time limit for the interest accrual period?

[Laguna]

Thanks.

One more question.

If I stay in the condo for a very long time until I retire, do I still need to pay the interest? i.e. is there any cap/time limit for the interest accrual period?

Yes, still accrued till the day u sell the property or close the account

[Kelonguni]

https://www.gov.sg/factually/content...myths-debunked

True, so never sell.

[DCC]

https://www.gov.sg/factually/content...myths-debunked

True, so never sell.

Very clear! Thanks!

You guys are experts in property!

(BTW, my 2nd offer is still pending, need to view the condo again this weekend.)

[teddybear]

Didn't know there is such "factually" website....................
Can they answer my CPF Life's questions factually (instead of ignoring them)?!

https://www.gov.sg/factually/content...myths-debunked

True, so never sell.

[tonymontana]

Thanks.

One more question.

If I stay in the condo for a very long time until I retire, do I still need to pay the interest? i.e. is there any cap/time limit for the interest accrual period?

I get you. The accrued interest and principal withdraw should be refunded by you if you sell your property before 55.

Once past 55, if you dispose of said property, you still need to refund the accrued amount, whereby the correct min sum will be put aside (if shortage) and also your medisave account, after which the remainder will be paid you in cash.

It's here, happy reading:

http://www.mortgagesupermart.com.sg/...-refund-policy

(in a way, you're refunding back what you withdrew plus interest, so essentially you're paying yourself back for your retirement. So, "pay the interest" in this case isn't the same as , for eg, paying your mortgage interest - which goes to the bank. So don't worry about this accrued interest, it's supposed to be yours anyway. Or in layman's term: "ownself pay ownself".

[Amber Woods]

(in a way, you're refunding back what you withdrew plus interest, so essentially you're paying yourself back for your retirement. So, "pay the interest" in this case isn't the same as , for eg, paying your mortgage interest - which goes to the bank. So don't worry about this accrued interest, it's supposed to be yours anyway. Or in layman's term: "ownself pay ownself".

If you had not drawn out your CPF for property, the amount left in your CPF would receive compounded interest for that number of years. The opportunity cost of using your CPF for property is the lost of interest earned from CPF which is 2.5% beside having to pay for the accrued interest.

Having said that, without CPF, many marginal buyers will not be able to buy property. So for people who are cash rich, leave your CPF alone.

[chestnut]

If you had not drawn out your CPF for property, the amount left in your CPF would receive compounded interest for that number of years. The opportunity cost of using your CPF for property is the lost of interest earned from CPF which is 2.5% beside having to pay for the accrued interest.

Having said that, without CPF, many marginal buyers will not be able to buy property. So for people who are cash rich, leave your CPF alone.

I believe the accrued interest is the amount you would have collected (earned in interest) if you had left the money in CPF.

https://www.gov.sg/factually/content...myths-debunked

Hence, it is only right that if we were to sell our home, we should return what we have borrowed (i.e. the principal amount) plus the interest we would have earned had the money not been taken out from our CPF account (accrued interest). This amount is returned to our own CPF accounts for our future retirement needs.

[DCC]

I get you. The accrued interest and principal withdraw should be refunded by you if you sell your property before 55.

Once past 55, if you dispose of said property, you still need to refund the accrued amount, whereby the correct min sum will be put aside (if shortage) and also your medisave account, after which the remainder will be paid you in cash.

It's here, happy reading:

http://www.mortgagesupermart.com.sg/...-refund-policy

(in a way, you're refunding back what you withdrew plus interest, so essentially you're paying yourself back for your retirement. So, "pay the interest" in this case isn't the same as , for eg, paying your mortgage interest - which goes to the bank. So don't worry about this accrued interest, it's supposed to be yours anyway. Or in layman's term: "ownself pay ownself".

Your answer is very clear. Thanks.
Yes, I am a marginal buyer and I need to use my CPF money as my budget is very tight, especially under the current market (the property index is still dropping but in reality both the asking price/transacted prices in central region are increasing quickly).

For my 2nd offer, I am still waiting for the owner respond.
Most likely, it will be rejected.

[chestnut]

If you had not drawn out your CPF for property, the amount left in your CPF would receive compounded interest for that number of years. The opportunity cost of using your CPF for property is the lost of interest earned from CPF which is 2.5% beside having to pay for the accrued interest.

Having said that, without CPF, many marginal buyers will not be able to buy property. So for people who are cash rich, leave your CPF alone.

Honestly, the cash rich will deploy their CPF from the OA. With their cash, they can easily find instruments above the 2.5% given by CPF on the OA account.

Don't believe, ask Teddy. If Teddy disagrees, I will be very surprised and would like to hear the rationale.

[Amber Woods]

Honestly, the cash rich will deploy their CPF from the OA. With their cash, they can easily find instruments above the 2.5% given by CPF on the OA account.

Don't believe, ask Teddy. If Teddy disagrees, I will be very surprised and would like to hear the rationale.

That is correct if you are capable of generating returns of more than 2.5%. FH property gives average return of 2.5% and come with risk. Investment grade bonds return about 4%.

For some cash rich, they may prefer to leave their CPF alone to earn interest as part of their investment portfolio.

So if you are above 55 years and have cash in your OA, go ahead and draw out the cash to invest in bonds if you are motivated by the additional 1.5% (4% - 2.5%). If you prefer risk free and already vested in bonds and property, you may want to leave the cash with CPF as part of your diversified portfolio.

If you are a savvy investor, by all mean draw out your OA be it you are below or above 55 years.

[chestnut]

Actually, cash rich is subjective.... definition of cash rich is not defined here (am not asking u to define). A person with 2 mil will have means to generate > 2.5% and still can leverage.

That is correct if you are capable of generating returns of more than 2.5%. FH property gives average return of 2.5% and come with risk. Investment grade bonds return about 4%.

For some cash rich, they may prefer to leave their CPF alone to earn interest as part of their investment portfolio.

So if you are above 55 years and have cash in your OA, go ahead and draw out the cash to invest in bonds if you are motivated by the additional 1.5% (4% - 2.5%). If you prefer risk free and already vested in bonds and property, you may want to leave the cash with CPF as part of your diversified portfolio.

If you are a savvy investor, by all mean draw out your OA be it you are below or above 55 years.

[Amber Woods]

Actually, cash rich is subjective.... definition of cash rich is not defined here (am not asking u to define). A person with 2 mil will have means to generate > 2.5% and still can leverage.

That is correct.

Again, CPF and CPF Life are meant for the poorer people to survive their old age. For the middle class and the rich, each of us will have to decide how best to make use of our CPF. Our risk profiles and needs are different so no model answer.

[PropVestor]

The qualifier and assumption for any investment is you get to see ALL of it while you (not as legacy) still can. Even if CPF promises me double digit XX% returns, I will not wing it because there is a mortality probability that I might not see ALL of it. The CPF analysts will have put in this equation based on our nation's health. Sorry to report that it is getting worse than ever before even we are living longer. This can dent a very big hole for our nation's wealth. Does this then puts me off CPF? Of course not. It is a wonderful safety net system which I dare say is one of the best in the world. MediShield is just as awesome.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/fe...ssons-for-u-s/

We are living longer yes, but we have more diseases than ever before so much so National Day Rally has to touch on this. IMHO, I have doubts I can touch all of whatever I have saved inside CPF. Like I said, this is a national social financial system therefore it also means not all of us will benefit from it equally. Just like $5,000 means differently to all of us. Those in D9/10 will see it very differently from those in one room flats.

Consistent 4-5% for property returns may be small or insignificant to some of us but at least I get to use it now for whatever I please. Just like options, futures, bonds and whatever you can invest in except CPF. Maybe some of you are of age to withdraw some of it. I am not even sure I can live till 55 on some days when my 40+ year old friends are already six feet under.

2 cents,
PropVestor