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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    I already said based on my experience, CCR freehold in D9, 10, 11 is still the best!
    Easy to find tenants, and good long term price appreciation, even beyond 100 years! A treasure to leave behind for your descendants!

    Care to share which are the OCR regions/areas which based on your experience are easy to find tenants at good rental and which are difficult to find tenants?

    Well, I don't know of any OCR area where 1300 sqft can find tenant at $4k pm rental in current market! Care to share where is this place?
    Actually mostly are in this range in this region. Please see a list of some of the rental caveats from July to September 2017. Mostly above 3,500 when approach 1000 sqft and 4000 when about 1300 sqft.

    I believe in the whole stretch of South (Southeast, Central and Southwest) region.

    Far East, Far West and Far North may face some difficulties for renting at good prices, but ownership demands will still be equally strong.

    I have done and shown my homework. How about your caveats of $6,000 for 1300 sqft? Which developments in CCR FH category are great?
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    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  2. #62
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    Why your list of OCR condos of about 1300 sqft that can rent out for $4000 pm are so short (only 3 condo estates!) when you said "Actually mostly are in this range in this region"?????????

    In CCR, there are many condo units of about 1300 sqft (or less) that can rent for $6000 or more p.m.!

    I won't show the details rental transactions (because too long!), just give you the list of condo estates in D9, D10 and D11 - you can check and verify for yourself:
    Viva
    OUE Twin Peaks
    Scotts Square
    Visioncrest
    One Devonshire
    Martin No 38
    Martin Place Residence
    The Suites at Central
    The Wharf Residence
    (....+Many more!!!!!!!!)

    So back to you, why your list so short? Is it that OCR has so few condo estates with units of about 1300 sqft that can rent for $4000 or more p.m.??????????


    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Actually mostly are in this range in this region. Please see a list of some of the rental caveats from July to September 2017. Mostly above 3,500 when approach 1000 sqft and 4000 when about 1300 sqft.

    I believe in the whole stretch of South (Southeast, Central and Southwest) region.

    Far East, Far West and Far North may face some difficulties for renting at good prices, but ownership demands will still be equally strong.

    I have done and shown my homework. How about your caveats of $6,000 for 1300 sqft? Which developments in CCR FH category are great?

  3. #63
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    You said you don't know of any... my job is just to show you a few samples here.

    It's not my full time job.

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Why your list of OCR condos of about 1300 sqft that can rent out for $4000 pm are so short (only 3 condo estates!) when you said "Actually mostly are in this range in this region"?????????

    In CCR, there are many condo units of about 1300 sqft (or less) that can rent for $6000 or more p.m.!

    I won't show the details rental transactions (because too long!), just give you the list of condo estates in D9, D10 and D11 - you can check and verify for yourself:
    Viva
    OUE Twin Peaks
    Scotts Square
    Visioncrest
    One Devonshire
    Martin No 38
    Martin Place Residence
    The Suites at Central
    The Wharf Residence
    (....+Many more!!!!!!!!)

    So back to you, why your list so short? Is it that OCR has so few condo estates with units of about 1300 sqft that can rent for $4000 or more p.m.??????????
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  4. #64
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    There are actually many more in OCR in my region that regularly clocks those figures. The Stellar (FH), Seahill, The Vision, just to name a few more.

    And most importantly, the prices of these units are all around 1200-1400 PSF, and generally are LH as well unless otherwise indicated.

    Looking through your list carefully, all are priced upwards of $1,800 PSF, some even 3,000 PSF including the 99LH OUE Twin Peaks. Such a high PSF definitely warrants higher rents (but yields are actually extremely low).

    I am more interested in your unit - CCR FH bought at 1,000 PSF and current market price is 1,400 PSF, around 1300 SQFT in size, and can rent for $6,000. Kindly share this lobang if available.


    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Why your list of OCR condos of about 1300 sqft that can rent out for $4000 pm are so short (only 3 condo estates!) when you said "Actually mostly are in this range in this region"?????????

    In CCR, there are many condo units of about 1300 sqft (or less) that can rent for $6000 or more p.m.!

    I won't show the details rental transactions (because too long!), just give you the list of condo estates in D9, D10 and D11 - you can check and verify for yourself:
    Viva
    OUE Twin Peaks
    Scotts Square
    Visioncrest
    One Devonshire
    Martin No 38
    Martin Place Residence
    The Suites at Central
    The Wharf Residence
    (....+Many more!!!!!!!!)

    So back to you, why your list so short? Is it that OCR has so few condo estates with units of about 1300 sqft that can rent for $4000 or more p.m.??????????
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  5. #65
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    I did a Propertyguru search for the properties fulfilling your criteria (District 9,10,11 which are FH) and up to 1500PSF in those locality, and 98 results came up. I went through all the developments in the list and they all come up short as compared to yours.

    Newton Edge - has not exceeded $5,000 since June
    Dunearn Suites - has not exceeded $3,000 since June, mostly small units
    The Spinnaker - last rental caveat is in June, $3,500
    Sylvan Lodge - has not exceeded $4,000 since June, even for 1,700 sqft unit
    Cube 8 - highest was indeed $6,000 in August, but for a 1,900 to 2,000 sqft unit
    Wilkie 87 - $4,000 for both units rented from June, indeed about 1,300 sqft
    Studio 3 - mostly not above 1,000 sqft, maximum $3,400
    Sixth Avenue Centre - $2,000 to $2,200 for units about 1300 sqft
    The Cornwall - getting close with 1400 sqft units hitting $5,000 but no $6,000 caveat
    The Lincoln Modern - Uniformly about $4,000 for 1,400 sqft unit
    Montebleu - about $4,000 for 1,100 sqft units
    Pavilion 11 - maximum single 6.2K for June, 1,400 sqft unit, but all the rest between $4,000-$5,000 +- for 1,400 sqft units.

    So what you have, Teddy, is a real treasure, because its better than all these caveats. Kindly share the locality at least.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    There are actually many more in OCR in my region that regularly clocks those figures. The Stellar (FH), Seahill, The Vision, just to name a few more.

    And most importantly, the prices of these units are all around 1200-1400 PSF, and generally are LH as well unless otherwise indicated.
    Yup.
    Examples in the east:
    flamingo valley psf below 1400 FH and rent around 4k region
    the seawind units 900-1200 psf around 1400 or less, FH , rental around 4k (give or take couple of hundred)

    however there is one piece of data that is a black hole, namely actual occupancy rate for individual condos. that could be a spanner in the works for aspiring landlords.
    D9/10/11 should be quite easy to rent out, no?

  7. #67
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    Agree on that generally. Most people who rent prefers central.

    But generally, they still do not want to or cannot pay high rent and that is the market trend with dwindling expat packages.

    Definitely, there are CCR areas that can easily meet 6-7K rent, but the prices for these are generally in the $4 million (and/or 2500PSF) category. I only wish Teddybear can share with us his CCR FH 1,300 sqft unit that has a market price of $1,400 PSF, and rent out for $6,000. Hope he is generous enough to share this lobang.



    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    Yup.
    Examples in the east:
    flamingo valley psf below 1400 FH and rent around 4k region
    the seawind units 900-1200 psf around 1400 or less, FH , rental around 4k (give or take couple of hundred)

    however there is one piece of data that is a black hole, namely actual occupancy rate for individual condos. that could be a spanner in the works for aspiring landlords.
    D9/10/11 should be quite easy to rent out, no?
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  8. #68
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    Think you hit the nail on the head!

    Example you see high rental amount for OCR condo units but you don't know how long it takes for the unit to be left vacant before the landlord managed to get a tenant at that kind of high rental.
    As I have mentioned before, 1 of my agents was saying some of these condo units takes more than 6 months and still no takers even if they are asking for slightly above median rental rate.

    So, what does all this mean? It means we need to assess property return based on NPV and IRR and not current market rental yield!


    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    Yup.
    Examples in the east:
    flamingo valley psf below 1400 FH and rent around 4k region
    the seawind units 900-1200 psf around 1400 or less, FH , rental around 4k (give or take couple of hundred)

    however there is one piece of data that is a black hole, namely actual occupancy rate for individual condos. that could be a spanner in the works for aspiring landlords.
    D9/10/11 should be quite easy to rent out, no?
    Last edited by teddybear; 19-10-17 at 11:30.

  9. #69
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    Why are you looking for current market price of up to $1500 psf?
    I only said my unit current market price is more than $1400 psf!

    Anyway, current market price is immaterial since my cost is the 20% of $1000 psf that I paid for my that property years ago! I am sure >99 years later, my CCR freehold property will have a market price that is much more than today, whereas 99-years leasehold property will have value of $0!

    So, you should start to learn that property investment is more about NPV and IRR say 99 years down the road and not current rental yield (since e.g. 99 years later if I sell my freehold property my total return is much higher than 99-years leasehold property)!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    I did a Propertyguru search for the properties fulfilling your criteria (District 9,10,11 which are FH) and up to 1500PSF in those locality, and 98 results came up. I went through all the developments in the list and they all come up short as compared to yours.

    Newton Edge - has not exceeded $5,000 since June
    Dunearn Suites - has not exceeded $3,000 since June, mostly small units
    The Spinnaker - last rental caveat is in June, $3,500
    Sylvan Lodge - has not exceeded $4,000 since June, even for 1,700 sqft unit
    Cube 8 - highest was indeed $6,000 in August, but for a 1,900 to 2,000 sqft unit
    Wilkie 87 - $4,000 for both units rented from June, indeed about 1,300 sqft
    Studio 3 - mostly not above 1,000 sqft, maximum $3,400
    Sixth Avenue Centre - $2,000 to $2,200 for units about 1300 sqft
    The Cornwall - getting close with 1400 sqft units hitting $5,000 but no $6,000 caveat
    The Lincoln Modern - Uniformly about $4,000 for 1,400 sqft unit
    Montebleu - about $4,000 for 1,100 sqft units
    Pavilion 11 - maximum single 6.2K for June, 1,400 sqft unit, but all the rest between $4,000-$5,000 +- for 1,400 sqft units.

    So what you have, Teddy, is a real treasure, because its better than all these caveats. Kindly share the locality at least.

  10. #70
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    I thought got good lobang. If your unit is >$3000 PSF then 6-7K easily doable.

    But in terms of yield, NPV or IRR calculations all pointless.

    But which unit is 1300sqft, bought at 1K PSF and now can rent out at 6K? Really cannot find anything close in CCR FH group, only certain OCR sites can achieve this.



    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Why are you looking for current market price of up to $1500 psf?
    I only said my unit current market price is more than $1400 psf!

    Anyway, current market price is immaterial since my cost is the 20% of $1000 psf that I paid for my that property years ago! I am sure >99 years later, my CCR freehold property will have a market price that is much more than today, whereas 99-years leasehold property will have value of $0!

    So, you should start to learn that property investment is more about NPV and IRR say 99 years down the road and not current rental yield (since e.g. 99 years later if I sell my freehold property my total return is much higher than 99-years leasehold property)!
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  11. #71
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    I will let you go and do your homework (since you have not been putting in effort to find it as you claimed you did).

    When you finally know the effects of inflation on freehold properties, you will know why CCR freehold properties are best property investment choice in Singapore (and not OCR 99-years leasehold properties)!

    What I want to remind you is that what I have quoted here is a real example (not numbers that I plucked from the sky, though obviously the size is ABOUT 1300 sqft (and not exactly 1300 sqft as you claimed you are searching for, similarly for the $6000 pm)) of how we make money from capital gains over long term from investing in CCR freehold properties and the rental income is just a bonus! (instead of worrying whether you can successfully flip your 99-years leasehold property to another greater fool at a higher price before your property is >30 years old and there will be few buyers around)!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    I thought got good lobang. If your unit is >$3000 PSF then 6-7K easily doable.

    But in terms of yield, NPV or IRR calculations all pointless.

    But which unit is 1300sqft, bought at 1K PSF and now can rent out at 6K? Really cannot find anything close in CCR FH group, only certain OCR sites can achieve this.

  12. #72
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    If everything is suka suka round up and down, there is no way to do this homework as URA only publishes 3 year data as well.

    Thanks but no thanks for not being able to share any specifics.

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    I will let you go and do your homework (since you have not been putting in effort to find it as you claimed you did).

    When you finally know the effects of inflation on freehold properties, you will know why CCR freehold properties are best property investment choice in Singapore (and not OCR 99-years leasehold properties)!

    What I want to remind you is that what I have quoted here is a real example (not numbers that I plucked from the sky, though obviously the size is ABOUT 1300 sqft (and not exactly 1300 sqft as you claimed you are searching for, similarly for the $6000 pm)) of how we make money from capital gains over long term from investing in CCR freehold properties and the rental income is just a bonus! (instead of worrying whether you can successfully flip your 99-years leasehold property to another greater fool at a higher price before your property is >30 years old and there will be few buyers around)!
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  13. #73
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    I cannot share specifics for privacy reasons.
    Still, the round up and round down doesn't really affect the return figures much and is sufficient to convey the most important message to you -------

    That is, when it comes to investing in properties, Gov ensures that you can only make money by buying and holding over very long term (through slow appreciation that correlates to inflation and income growth of the population) - not buy to flip within a few years which are what all those property cooling measures are targeting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    If everything is suka suka round up and down, there is no way to do this homework as URA only publishes 3 year data as well.

    Thanks but no thanks for not being able to share any specifics.

  14. #74
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    20-30 years hold until enbloc still not enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    I cannot share specifics for privacy reasons.
    Still, the round up and round down doesn't really affect the return figures much and is sufficient to convey the most important message to you -------

    That is, when it comes to investing in properties, Gov ensures that you can only make money by buying and holding over very long term (through slow appreciation that correlates to inflation and income growth of the population) - not buy to flip within a few years which are what all those property cooling measures are targeting!
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  15. #75
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    If enough then some properties won't be 40 years old and still fail to enbloc!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    20-30 years hold until enbloc still not enough?

  16. #76
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    just heard happy news one of my kaki got enbloc, is an lh ocr apartment. meanwhile another kaki holding d9 fh condo renting out at 5% gross yield, bought almost a decade ago. lots of normal ppl done well investing in local property, be it ocr ccr lh or fh

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