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Thread: 3-3-5 rule now endorsed by the CPF Board

  1. #1
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    Default 3-3-5 rule now endorsed by the CPF Board

    https://www.propertysoul.com/2017/10...m_campaign=std

    3-3-5 rule now endorsed by the CPF Board

    October 5, 2017

    It is official. CPF Board just endorsed Property Soul’s 3-3-5 rule.

    The statutory board recently published an article “How to use the 3-3-5 rule to consider if you can afford your new home” in its “Are You Ready?” portal.

    “Are You Ready?” is an initiative by the CPF Board to educate Singaporeans on how to plan for major financial decisions at different stages of their life cycle – from starting work, getting married, buying a house to planning for retirement.

    The article also comes with an infographic using guidelines from the 3-3-5 affordability test for home buyers to calculate housing affordability.



    3-3-5 rule is not conservative. It is realistic.

    The 3-3-5 rule has three simple thresholds to determine whether you can really afford the home that you intend to buy.


    Rule #1: 30% of property price

    Guideline: Your initial capital should be at least 30 percent of the property’s asking price.

    Implication: If you don’t have 30 percent cash for the property you want to buy, admit the fact that you don’t have adequate savings to buy your dream home.

    Rationale: Besides paying 20 percent for the down payment, you have to set aside at least 10 percent in cash for the transaction costs such as stamp duties and legal fee.

    Note that this doesn’t include the budget for renovation, furnishing and house moving after the property is handed over to you.

    Forget about applying for personal line of credit or a renovation loan. Are you sure that you want to pay interest to the bank for another loan when you are already tied up with the monthly mortgage for your housing loan?


    Rule #2: 1/3 of monthly salary

    Guideline: Your monthly mortgage payment should not exceed one-third of your monthly salary.

    Implication: If you are using more than one-third of your income to pay for your monthly mortgage, you don’t have enough buffer against potential loss of employment or future hike in interest rate.

    Rationale: Installment plans and buy-now-pay-later schemes are designed for the poor. The more the poor man buys, the poorer he becomes.

    Similarly, the lower the buyer’s capital, the more he needs to borrow. The higher the leverage, the riskier the purchase, and the higher the chance to default.

    To lower your mortgage payment, you can either apply for a smaller housing loan, or buy a more affordable home.


    Rule #3: 5 times of annual income

    Guideline: The purchase price of the property should not exceed five times of your annual income.

    Implication: If you are paying more than 5 times of your annual income for your home, you can’t really afford it. You need to look for a higher-pay job or settle with a more affordable home.

    Rationale: Prices of private residential properties have climbed 60 percent for a consecutive 17 quarters, but only retrieved 12 percent over the last 15 quarters.

    The ‘boiling frog’ effect means buyers are made comfortable paying high prices for overvalued properties because they think this is normal. The fundamentals to buy a value-for-money home or to invest based on the ROI of a property are thrown out of the window.

    Stop complaining that you can’t find any property that can meet the stringent 3-3-5 rule. Take a hard look at yourself and dive deeper to research the property market and you will understand what “affordability” really means.

    You may like to revisit my previous post “Why housing affordability is more than your salary” to know where you are in the four categories of affordability, namely “very affordable”, “highly probable”, “merely stretchable” and “barely reachable”.

    If you are still in doubt or not yet convinced by my 3-3-5 rule, please email the CPF Board directly at [email protected].

  2. #2
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    Super easy to meet with all the enbloc proceeds.

    One family split to buy 4 units can easily meet 3-3-5 ratio, full cash also no problem!
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    This vip sure likes to pat herself on the back, doesn't she?
    I've been using the 3-3-5 rule long before I heard about it on forums / talks, since I'm naturally prudent & conservative.
    You know what? Back in 2003, I wish I hadn't. I'd have been wealthier today.
    Btw, didn't VIP collect a few properties between 2003-2005? How many was it? 3? 4?
    So she kept dilligently to her 3-3-5 rule throughout this period while buying these investment properties?
    Or is she only mentioning her 3-3-5 rule ad nauseam these days because she is hoping for less liquidity in the market, seeing as how she may have missed her chance to reinvest?
    Last edited by tonymontana; 06-10-17 at 08:46.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    This vip sure likes to pat herself on the back, doesn't she?
    I've been using the 3-3-5 rule long before I heard about it on forums / talks, since I'm naturally prudent & conservative.
    You know what? Back in 2003, I wish I hadn't. I'd have been wealthier today.
    Btw, didn't VIP collect a few properties between 2003-2005? How many was it? 3? 4?
    So she kept dilligently to her 3-3-5 rule throughout this period while buying these investment properties?
    Or is she only mentioning her 3-3-5 rule ad nauseam these days because she is hoping for less liquidity in the market, seeing as how she may have missed her chance to reinvest?
    Let's put the 3-3-5 rule in perspective. It is meant as a guide for the masses who are not financially savvy. Savvy investors know better how and when to take risk and how and when to cut losses.

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    If we follow the 3-3-5 rule, a lot of people will not even consider/eligible to buy their first property.

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    Not a sexy formula.

    3 X 3 = 9

    3 + 3 = 6

    How to justify must be 3 and must be 5?

    Why not 5-5-10 principle?

    Or 3-6-9?
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DayDreamer View Post
    If we follow the 3-3-5 rule, a lot of people will not even consider/eligible to buy their first property.
    You are right. That is why 80% of the population should buy only public housing. For the more savvy within this 80%, they are more willing to take risk. They either get rewarded or burnt depending on their level of risk they take.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by vip View Post
    https://www.propertysoul.com/2017/10...m_campaign=std

    3-3-5 rule now endorsed by the CPF Board

    October 5, 2017

    It is official. CPF Board just endorsed Property Soul’s 3-3-5 rule.

    The statutory board recently published an article “How to use the 3-3-5 rule to consider if you can afford your new home” in its “Are You Ready?” portal.

    “Are You Ready?” is an initiative by the CPF Board to educate Singaporeans on how to plan for major financial decisions at different stages of their life cycle – from starting work, getting married, buying a house to planning for retirement.

    The article also comes with an infographic using guidelines from the 3-3-5 affordability test for home buyers to calculate housing affordability.



    3-3-5 rule is not conservative. It is realistic.

    The 3-3-5 rule has three simple thresholds to determine whether you can really afford the home that you intend to buy.


    Rule #1: 30% of property price

    Guideline: Your initial capital should be at least 30 percent of the property’s asking price.

    Implication: If you don’t have 30 percent cash for the property you want to buy, admit the fact that you don’t have adequate savings to buy your dream home.

    Rationale: Besides paying 20 percent for the down payment, you have to set aside at least 10 percent in cash for the transaction costs such as stamp duties and legal fee.

    Note that this doesn’t include the budget for renovation, furnishing and house moving after the property is handed over to you.

    Forget about applying for personal line of credit or a renovation loan. Are you sure that you want to pay interest to the bank for another loan when you are already tied up with the monthly mortgage for your housing loan?


    Rule #2: 1/3 of monthly salary

    Guideline: Your monthly mortgage payment should not exceed one-third of your monthly salary.

    Implication: If you are using more than one-third of your income to pay for your monthly mortgage, you don’t have enough buffer against potential loss of employment or future hike in interest rate.

    Rationale: Installment plans and buy-now-pay-later schemes are designed for the poor. The more the poor man buys, the poorer he becomes.

    Similarly, the lower the buyer’s capital, the more he needs to borrow. The higher the leverage, the riskier the purchase, and the higher the chance to default.

    To lower your mortgage payment, you can either apply for a smaller housing loan, or buy a more affordable home.


    Rule #3: 5 times of annual income

    Guideline: The purchase price of the property should not exceed five times of your annual income.

    Implication: If you are paying more than 5 times of your annual income for your home, you can’t really afford it. You need to look for a higher-pay job or settle with a more affordable home.

    Rationale: Prices of private residential properties have climbed 60 percent for a consecutive 17 quarters, but only retrieved 12 percent over the last 15 quarters.

    The ‘boiling frog’ effect means buyers are made comfortable paying high prices for overvalued properties because they think this is normal. The fundamentals to buy a value-for-money home or to invest based on the ROI of a property are thrown out of the window.

    Stop complaining that you can’t find any property that can meet the stringent 3-3-5 rule. Take a hard look at yourself and dive deeper to research the property market and you will understand what “affordability” really means.

    You may like to revisit my previous post “Why housing affordability is more than your salary” to know where you are in the four categories of affordability, namely “very affordable”, “highly probable”, “merely stretchable” and “barely reachable”.

    If you are still in doubt or not yet convinced by my 3-3-5 rule, please email the CPF Board directly at [email protected].
    My son tell me he going to save enough to buy HDB.

    I tell my son that is for good boys and girls, but for him I am going to help him get his private property.

  9. #9
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    yes stick to 335 rule so that you stay put and lay low .. work work work

  10. #10
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    The Government should introduce ABSD and TDSR etc for REITs and private companies paying above 3-3-5 for commercial properties since their prices are bidded and transacted to sky high levels and these people are transferring their costs to obscene sky high rental rates for retail businesses and then the sky high costs transferred to consumers!


    Quote Originally Posted by vip View Post
    https://www.propertysoul.com/2017/10...m_campaign=std

    3-3-5 rule now endorsed by the CPF Board

    October 5, 2017

    It is official. CPF Board just endorsed Property Soul’s 3-3-5 rule.

    The statutory board recently published an article “How to use the 3-3-5 rule to consider if you can afford your new home” in its “Are You Ready?” portal.

    “Are You Ready?” is an initiative by the CPF Board to educate Singaporeans on how to plan for major financial decisions at different stages of their life cycle – from starting work, getting married, buying a house to planning for retirement.

    The article also comes with an infographic using guidelines from the 3-3-5 affordability test for home buyers to calculate housing affordability.



    3-3-5 rule is not conservative. It is realistic.

    The 3-3-5 rule has three simple thresholds to determine whether you can really afford the home that you intend to buy.


    Rule #1: 30% of property price

    Guideline: Your initial capital should be at least 30 percent of the property’s asking price.

    Implication: If you don’t have 30 percent cash for the property you want to buy, admit the fact that you don’t have adequate savings to buy your dream home.

    Rationale: Besides paying 20 percent for the down payment, you have to set aside at least 10 percent in cash for the transaction costs such as stamp duties and legal fee.

    Note that this doesn’t include the budget for renovation, furnishing and house moving after the property is handed over to you.

    Forget about applying for personal line of credit or a renovation loan. Are you sure that you want to pay interest to the bank for another loan when you are already tied up with the monthly mortgage for your housing loan?


    Rule #2: 1/3 of monthly salary

    Guideline: Your monthly mortgage payment should not exceed one-third of your monthly salary.

    Implication: If you are using more than one-third of your income to pay for your monthly mortgage, you don’t have enough buffer against potential loss of employment or future hike in interest rate.

    Rationale: Installment plans and buy-now-pay-later schemes are designed for the poor. The more the poor man buys, the poorer he becomes.

    Similarly, the lower the buyer’s capital, the more he needs to borrow. The higher the leverage, the riskier the purchase, and the higher the chance to default.

    To lower your mortgage payment, you can either apply for a smaller housing loan, or buy a more affordable home.


    Rule #3: 5 times of annual income

    Guideline: The purchase price of the property should not exceed five times of your annual income.

    Implication: If you are paying more than 5 times of your annual income for your home, you can’t really afford it. You need to look for a higher-pay job or settle with a more affordable home.

    Rationale: Prices of private residential properties have climbed 60 percent for a consecutive 17 quarters, but only retrieved 12 percent over the last 15 quarters.

    The ‘boiling frog’ effect means buyers are made comfortable paying high prices for overvalued properties because they think this is normal. The fundamentals to buy a value-for-money home or to invest based on the ROI of a property are thrown out of the window.

    Stop complaining that you can’t find any property that can meet the stringent 3-3-5 rule. Take a hard look at yourself and dive deeper to research the property market and you will understand what “affordability” really means.

    You may like to revisit my previous post “Why housing affordability is more than your salary” to know where you are in the four categories of affordability, namely “very affordable”, “highly probable”, “merely stretchable” and “barely reachable”.

    If you are still in doubt or not yet convinced by my 3-3-5 rule, please email the CPF Board directly at [email protected].

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    omg, I cannot even buy a single property under all these rulings

  12. #12
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    Actually hor, to tell the truth, anybody who follow 3-3-5 will likely remain poor forever (unless you earn $Millions salary)!

    Rich people become rich by not following 3-3-5.......
    Rich people know very well to use money (even if borrowed - that is why always loan to the MAXIMUM) to make money (don't be so stupid to use hardwork to make money - how much time and effort you alone have to make money for you?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amber Woods View Post
    You are right. That is why 80% of the population should buy only public housing. For the more savvy within this 80%, they are more willing to take risk. They either get rewarded or burnt depending on their level of risk they take.

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    That's why some of these self proclaimed gurus cause greater harm than benefit.

    By insisting that people lower their risks way below the threshold that people actually can comfortably afford, the people who need to take some (minimal) risks end up taking zero risk.

    Taking zero risk is extremely risky, sure lose. Remember, high risks, high gains.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  14. #14
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    So you mean CPF Board is doing that too?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    That's why some of these self proclaimed gurus cause greater harm than benefit.

    By insisting that people lower their risks way below the threshold that people actually can comfortably afford, the people who need to take some (minimal) risks end up taking zero risk.

    Taking zero risk is extremely risky, sure lose. Remember, high risks, high gains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    So you mean CPF Board is doing that too?
    The same method, the risk level differs for everyone.

    Vina and CPF advice may work well for those starting on first property especially HDB.

    Investment property has to use a different set of principles.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  16. #16
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    Not only CPF Board, even the MAS with their TDSR, MSR, ABSD to deter people from buying properties etc
    cause greater harm than benefit.
    By insisting that people lower their risks way below the threshold that people actually can comfortably afford, the people who need to take some (minimal) risks end up taking zero risk.


    By insisting that these people take little risk, they can only invest in lemons (like shoebox units, or 99-years leasehold properties in "bird-no-lay-egg" places), which obviously won't help to increase their wealth (if at all), and may even be detrimental to their wealth!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    The same method, the risk level differs for everyone.

    Vina and CPF advice may work well for those starting on first property especially HDB.

    Investment property has to use a different set of principles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    That's why some of these self proclaimed gurus cause greater harm than benefit.

    By insisting that people lower their risks way below the threshold that people actually can comfortably afford, the people who need to take some (minimal) risks end up taking zero risk.


    Taking zero risk is extremely risky, sure lose. Remember, high risks, high gains.

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    Not true, every decent location OCR project I have been involved, the one-bedder yields are always the most fantastic. Mostly in matured estates.

    Definitely not lemons; many of us have been collecting for years.

    No lay egg places I did not really try so can't say much for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Not only CPF Board, even the MAS with their TDSR, MSR, ABSD to deter people from buying properties etc
    cause greater harm than benefit.
    By insisting that people lower their risks way below the threshold that people actually can comfortably afford, the people who need to take some (minimal) risks end up taking zero risk.


    By insisting that these people take little risk, they can only invest in lemons (like shoebox units, or 99-years leasehold properties in "bird-no-lay-egg" places), which obviously won't help to increase their wealth (if at all), and may even be detrimental to their wealth!
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    If any of you try to make any argument that derail her perspectives on her main blog, she will ban you from posting. What is the point of having a "comment box" session when you simply want "high-fives" from only those who buy into your advice? If you can't face the heat or handle a debate, then forget about being a so called property guru.

    You can continue to hide with your moderation, but you can't fool savvy investors.

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    Friday Joke:
    My 3-3-5 rule
    Buy first private property in your 30s, no more than 3 bedder and 50% loan if you can.
    You will be pretty safe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    Friday Joke:
    My 3-3-5 rule
    Buy first private property in your 30s, no more than 3 bedder and 50% loan if you can.
    You will be pretty safe?
    methinks, no LESS than 3 bedder!

    give yourself room to downsize when kids etc grow up and/or you get fedup of cleaning such a big space. C'mon lets not kid ourselves, these days, it's the guys doing the heavy cleaning in the house.

    Yes, pretty damn safe. But you may regret tying up all that capital on one property. I know I did when I was younger!

    Cheers!

    How's DUO? Did you get it tenanted out already?

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    Its getting harder to buy an investment property or upgrade for those in their 20s or early 30s. I know what you meant about tying capital on one property. Invested DUO at 33 while there was that feeling of uncertainty back in 2013. Still looking for tenants but offers are coming in. Thanks for asking!

  22. #22
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    Really? Wow! Still, agents are telling me that OCR units are finding difficulty in renting out, with 3BR units now mostly going for $2400 pm or less. How much the OCR one-bedder commands?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Not true, every decent location OCR project I have been involved, the one-bedder yields are always the most fantastic. Mostly in matured estates.

    Definitely not lemons; many of us have been collecting for years.

    No lay egg places I did not really try so can't say much for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Really? Wow! Still, agents are telling me that OCR units are finding difficulty in renting out, with 3BR units now mostly going for $2400 pm or less. How much the OCR one-bedder commands?
    My 3 bedder OCR just rented out for over 3k a few days ago leh.

    Look at a different sector, Teddy. Don't stare at the shrubs.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  24. #24
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    3 Bedder OCR? 99-years LH, about 1300 sqft, current market price $1400 psf? You need to provide specific furniture and appliances too?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    My 3 bedder OCR just rented out for over 3k a few days ago leh.

    Look at a different sector, Teddy. Don't stare at the shrubs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    3 Bedder OCR? 99-years LH, about 1300 sqft, current market price $1400 psf? You need to provide specific furniture and appliances too?
    some bought during recession years , psf very low, so good yields.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    3 Bedder OCR? 99-years LH, about 1300 sqft, current market price $1400 psf? You need to provide specific furniture and appliances too?
    Comes as a package as white goods from developer. Only partially furnished and add in lights and curtains - zero cent on furnishing or appliances.

    Quite a bit smaller than 1300 sqft. Current market price is about 1400 PSF but bought under 1200 PSF.

    Already quite poor yielding in the area actually - many caveats in this area are higher.

    OCR are not all the same. Even in the same development, the fate of each unit may differ.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  27. #27
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    $3k pm / 1300 sqft *12 mths / $1200 psf = 2.307% gross yield.

    So net yield only about 1% p.a.? So low? And 99 years leasehold means collect for 99 years and property value = $0?!


    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Comes as a package as white goods from developer. Only partially furnished and add in lights and curtains - zero cent on furnishing or appliances.

    Quite a bit smaller than 1300 sqft. Current market price is about 1400 PSF but bought under 1200 PSF.

    Already quite poor yielding in the area actually - many caveats in this area are higher.

    OCR are not all the same. Even in the same development, the fate of each unit may differ.

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    Which part about the "quite a bit smaller than 1300 sqft" did you not get?

    Anyway like I mentioned, mine is lower than those surrounding already. The bigger ones less than 1300 sqft in size are closer to 4K actually.

    Why don't you share with us the yield for your century old mansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    $3k pm / 1300 sqft *12 mths / $1200 psf = 2.307% gross yield.

    So net yield only about 1% p.a.? So low? And 99 years leasehold means collect for 99 years and property value = $0?!
    Last edited by Kelonguni; 16-10-17 at 22:16.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  29. #29
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    Mine?
    Just quote you 1 of my properties for comparison:
    1300 sqft, $6000 pm rental, Bought at $1000 psf, Freehold condo unit with full facilities.

    So Gross yield p.a. = $6000 / 1300 *12 / $1000 = 5.54% p.a.

    Oh, by the way, my $6000 pm rental is already at the low end of the range!


    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Which part about the "quite a bit smaller than 1300 sqft" did you not get?

    Anyway like I mentioned, mine is lower than those surrounding already. The bigger ones less than 1300 sqft in size are closer to 4K actually.

    Why don't you share with us the yield for your century old mansion?
    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    $3k pm / 1300 sqft *12 mths / $1200 psf = 2.307% gross yield.

    So net yield only about 1% p.a.? So low? And 99 years leasehold means collect for 99 years and property value = $0?!

  30. #30
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    Quote current value better since it's a century mansion.

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Mine?
    Just quote you 1 of my properties for comparison:
    1300 sqft, $6000 pm rental, Bought at $1000 psf, Freehold condo unit with full facilities.

    So Gross yield p.a. = $6000 / 1300 *12 / $1000 = 5.54% p.a.

    Oh, by the way, my $6000 pm rental is already at the low end of the range!
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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