The Shore Residences (D15, 103 years leasehold, Far East Organization)

[bargain hunter]

am i right to say that those leases we see 103 year leasehold are actually freehold land held by somebody other than the government but sold on this much shorter 103 year leasehold? have seen this 103 year leasehold thinghy for 8@mount sophia, far east's The Greenwood clustered houses and now here at The Shore. So quite easy to differentiate lah, when see 103 year leasehold, just avoid.

One agent email me this, not knowing I'm owning a unit in OA

Dear xxx

Good buy for One Amber. Please call me for more information

Price: 1 br start from $1270 Ave, 2 br starts from $1250psf Ave, 3 br from $1150psf Ave
Land Size: 250,000 Sq Ft
Tenure: FREE HOLD
Expected TOP: 2nd Qtr 2010
Plot Ratio: 2.8
No. of Towers: 4
No. of Storey: 23
No. of units: 562

The Shore

Price: 1 br start from $1250psf Ave, 2 br starts from $1230psf Ave
Land Size: 191,037 Sq Ft
Tenure: 103 Years Leasehold
Expected TOP: 31 Dec 2015
Plot Ratio: 2.1
No. of Towers: 6 (A1, A2, B, C, D1, D2)
No. of Storey: 20 (Tower A1 & A1 start from level 7)
No. of units: 408

[proud owner]

am i right to say that those leases we see 103 year leasehold are actually freehold land held by somebody other than the government but sold on this much shorter 103 year leasehold? have seen this 103 year leasehold thinghy for 8@mount sophia, far east's The Greenwood clustered houses and now here at The Shore. So quite easy to differentiate lah, when see 103 year leasehold, just avoid.

thats right

on a FH land launch a 103 yr leasehold project .. assuming take yr to build ..dilly dally TOP just nice 99 yr ...

after 99 yr take back land and launch again ...

agree ..AVOID BIG TIME this kind of project ...

[xebay11]

thats right

on a FH land launch a 103 yr leasehold project .. assuming take yr to build ..dilly dally TOP just nice 99 yr ...

after 99 yr take back land and launch again ...

agree ..AVOID BIG TIME this kind of project ...

Alamak at least FEO make the lease nicely 103 years and by TOP just nice 99 years left, better than many start construction already 99 years, so by the time TOP less than 99 years left just my two cents.

[Property_Owner]

How prefectly they time the leasehold. They will instruct the agents to tell buyers

''You buy other leasehold only 99yrs, Upon TOP left 95 yrs. The Shore is better, 103 years, upon TOP still have 99yrs.''

See! This is a scam.

[bargain hunter]

but different, 99 years land is sold by government, easier to en-bloc after 20 to 30 years. 103 year lease is actually someone behind holding on to freehold land.

Alamak at least FEO make the lease nicely 103 years and by TOP just nice 99 years left, better than many start construction already 99 years, so by the time TOP less than 99 years left just my two cents.

[bargain hunter]

classic FEO...yes, i have heard similar nonsense from them before.

How prefectly they time the leasehold. They will instruct the agents to tell buyers

''You buy other leasehold only 99yrs, Upon TOP left 95 yrs. The Shore is better, 103 years, upon TOP still have 99yrs.''

See! This is a scam.

[xebay11]

but different, 99 years land is sold by government, easier to en-bloc after 20 to 30 years. 103 year lease is actually someone behind holding on to freehold land.

You are absolutely right. My big grin is because I am being sarcastic, like as if the small 4 years extra lease is actually even worth the two cents I am posting, because the land is ultimately still held by FEO.

But many times Singapore buyers get taken in by small perks and fail to see the big picture. Buying 99 yr LH properties especially for own stay, is one of them.

[Reporter]

..........
..........

Your questions prompted me to do some research. What I've said above is out-dated by a few years (maybe it shows my age). There's now no distinction in enblocs between so-called "privately issued" or "Govt-issued" L999 since about 4 yrs back. See article below:-

Published January 26, 2006

Hoi Hup bags Kim Yam Mansion in $63m collective sale

By KALPANA RASHIWALA

PROPERTY developer Hoi Hup, part of Straits Construction Group, is understood to have bagged the 877-year leasehold Kim Yam Mansion, off River Valley Road, for about $63 million through a collective sale.

.........

Kim Yam Mansion is the first collective sale to benefit from a new law that took effect last month, facilitating en bloc sales of estates where the original landowner/developer retains the freehold title despite giving flat owners leases ranging from 850 to just under 999 years.

In such estates, strata titles were not issued under an old law, so the developer issued long leases instead. In the past, some of these landowners demanded hefty payments - amounting to millions of dollars - before they would consent to an en bloc sale.

This ate into proceeds for the flat owners, sometimes effectively blocking an en bloc deal.

Jones Lang LaSalle, Kim Yam's marketing agent, worked with real estate lawyer S K Phang to highlight the anomaly in the law to the authorities.

This was fixed through an amendment to the Land Titles (Strata) Act that took effect on Dec 1, under which such landowners lose all rights to the land upon an en bloc sale.

The Singapore Land Authority has said that in all, 24 sites will be affected by the rule change - but did not identify them to protect the privacy of the present unit owners.

Anyway, there are only 24 such sites. So I think no issue for any L999 enblocs to go through, because no lease extensions required due to many hundred yrs left. But for L99 sites, lease extension will largely depend on whether the Govt has alternate plans for the site after the lease is over.

For the L99 CPF restriction thingee, since 4 yrs back, it has been relaxed a little. CPF can now be used for properties with leases between 30 to 59yrs, but in smaller %s, depending on owner's age and remaining lease. You can check on the CPF website.

Sorry for being so long-winded.

Maybe eleong can help?

[housewife]

where to check if land is LH or FH? and where to check for the condo?

[Wild Falcon]

Oh. I didn't know developers can do that. This means those who buy Dunman View can forget about enbloc EVER. The land belongs to FEO - not the govt, so presumably FEO will have very high bargaining power when it comes to lease top up since the owners have no other option. In any case, the land revert back to FEO after 99 years - they are not govt, chances are they will throw everyone out when the lease term is over - just like any other landlord.

Dunman View is a good example from FEO.

[Reporter]

Oh. I didn't know developers can do that. This means those who buy Dunman View can forget about enbloc EVER. The land belongs to FEO - not the govt, so presumably FEO will have very high bargaining power when it comes to lease top up since the owners have no other option. In any case, the land revert back to FEO after 99 years - they are not govt, chances are they will throw everyone out when the lease term is over - just like any other landlord.

Have you read "Hoi Hup bags Kim Yam Mansion in $63M collective sale" on The Business Times dated 26 January 2006 prior to commenting?

[nochoice]

Have you read "Hoi Hup bags Kim Yam Mansion in $63M collective sale" on The Business Times dated 26 January 2006 prior to commenting?

Am I right to said that FEO will lose its rights to the land upon an en bloc sale. For example, if after 30 yrs, owners of the shore wants to en bloc, FEO can't do anything? If thats the case, it does not make sense for FEO to sell as leasehold....

[peterng8]

Please refer to "The Shore@District 15/Start Reservation w/cheques now!" thread. In particular, a few of us have concluded that far east may be selling The Shore as a 99 year leasehold on a Freehold plot of land. Be aware and decide whether that is fair or not before you buy.

thanks, as received FEO invitation to VVIP preview on this property... ...maybe drop by to see how ...

[nochoice]

thanks, as received FEO invitation to VVIP preview on this property... ...maybe drop by to see how ...

when is the actual date for VVIP?

[housewife]

Have you read "Hoi Hup bags Kim Yam Mansion in $63M collective sale" on The Business Times dated 26 January 2006 prior to commenting?

that was referring to "landowner/developer retains the freehold title despite giving flat owners leases ranging from 850 to just under 999 years." and "The Singapore Land Authority has said that in all, 24 sites..." so 99yr LH from FH is not included right? so up to now they still can safely lease 99yr and make money from it in future, right?

[peterng8]

thanks, as received FEO invitation to VVIP preview on this property... ...maybe drop by to see how ...

oh sorry, see wrongly...it should be Private preview...VVip preview is for my children toy sale event...haha

[bargain hunter]

i think we need eleong's help (since he is the original poster of the Hoi Hup Waterford Residences article) before we start confusing everybody.

I agree with you. FEO is the most shrewd developer on the block, they can't be so dumb.

Am I right to said that FEO will lose its rights to the land upon an en bloc sale. For example, if after 30 yrs, owners of the shore wants to en bloc, FEO can't do anything? If thats the case, it does not make sense for FEO to sell as leasehold....

[bargain hunter]

i also think the article does not cover the FH land sold as 103 years leasehold developments.

that was referring to "landowner/developer retains the freehold title despite giving flat owners leases ranging from 850 to just under 999 years." and "The Singapore Land Authority has said that in all, 24 sites..." so 99yr LH from FH is not included right? so up to now they still can safely lease 99yr and make money from it in future, right?

[proud owner]

Oh. I didn't know developers can do that. This means those who buy Dunman View can forget about enbloc EVER. The land belongs to FEO - not the govt, so presumably FEO will have very high bargaining power when it comes to lease top up since the owners have no other option. In any case, the land revert back to FEO after 99 years - they are not govt, chances are they will throw everyone out when the lease term is over - just like any other landlord.

NOw you know why ???

i have been laughed at for being a FH only buyer ..

thats one good reason why i will only buy FH ..

in fact i am the one who started this thread 999 vs FH .. cos i am not even sure i is 999 yr lease property good/safe enough

[proud owner]

oh sorry, see wrongly...it should be Private preview...VVip preview is for my children toy sale event...haha

be careful ah ....

a few of us already concluded FEO's scheme ahah


and why Private ??? cos FEO wants you to go quietly , dont let us influence you ??


dont let this Private Preview turn into a Future Regret ...

[eleong]

i think we need eleong's help (since he is the original poster of the Hoi Hup Waterford Residences article) before we start confusing everybody.

I agree with you. FEO is the most shrewd developer on the block, they can't be so dumb.

Errr... not really sure if i'm helping or confusing everyone. I'm just a layperson like most of us here.

The Dec 2005 amendment to the Land Strata Titles Act states that: "The Minister hereby specifies that sections 84E and 84F of the Act shall also apply where there are subsisting leases of flats in any development registered under the Land Titles Act (Cap. 157) or the Registration of Deeds Act (Cap. 269) for a leasehold estate of 850 years or more but less than 999 years and where the proprietors of the flats do not own the land comprised in the development."

So this applies only to LH999 land. I'm not even sure if it also applies to L999 land with less than 850 yrs left in the lease. I suppose the rationale may be a 999yrs lease is so long that it may be seen to be in perpetuity, so owners of a 999yrs lease should be seen to have similar rights as outright owners of the land.

For the case of L99 sites, I think it will depend on the lease conditions set by the original landowners if enbloc is possible.

[bargain hunter]

thanks. at least we know the rule ONLY applies to these 850 years and above Freehold sold as leaseholds. 99 or 103 years leasehold sitting on privately owned freehold land...BEWARE!

Errr... not really sure if i'm helping or confusing everyone. I'm just a layperson like most of us here.

The Dec 2005 amendment to the Land Strata Titles Act states that: "The Minister hereby specifies that sections 84E and 84F of the Act shall also apply where there are subsisting leases of flats in any development registered under the Land Titles Act (Cap. 157) or the Registration of Deeds Act (Cap. 269) for a leasehold estate of 850 years or more but less than 999 years and where the proprietors of the flats do not own the land comprised in the development."

So this applies only to LH999 land. I'm not even sure if it also applies to L999 land with less than 850 yrs left in the lease. I suppose the rationale may be a 999yrs lease is so long that it may be seen to be in perpetuity, so owners of a 999yrs lease should be seen to have similar rights as outright owners of the land.

For the case of L99 sites, I think it will depend on the lease conditions set by the original landowners if enbloc is possible.

[peterng8]

be careful ah ....

a few of us already concluded FEO's scheme ahah


and why Private ??? cos FEO wants you to go quietly , dont let us influence you ??


dont let this Private Preview turn into a Future Regret ...

maybe they think existing customer better to influence than getting new customers.....which costs higher to have

[Victor14]

after going thru page 1 to page 4.. don u guys find it weird that the thread starter nv make a single cooment?? haha.. though i am a agent myself i also find that SOME developers are out to 'con' buyers.. right bro?? yes i do wan to make $ thru comm but after effect is tat the agt kana 'curse' n nt the developer.. haiz...

[proud owner]

after going thru page 1 to page 4.. don u guys find it weird that the thread starter nv make a single cooment?? haha.. though i am a agent myself i also find that SOME developers are out to 'con' buyers.. right bro?? yes i do wan to make $ thru comm but after effect is tat the agt kana 'curse' n nt the developer.. haiz...

haha thanks for highlighting

you are right, SEA started this thread and disappeared ... maybe he/ she also only just realise its a LH project on a FH land ...

maybe he also feel bad about what FEO is doing .. hence decides to stay out

[bargain hunter]

in classifieds, there are a few adverts for The Shore and NONE WOULD SAY WHETHER ITS FREEHOLD OR LEASEHOLD...totally avoid bringing up the topic at all!

haha thanks for highlighting

you are right, SEA started this thread and disappeared ... maybe he/ she also only just realise its a LH project on a FH land ...

maybe he also feel bad about what FEO is doing .. hence decides to stay out

[gfoo]

an FEO agent mentioned that they've already got 60 chqs in hand - poor idiots

[bargain hunter]

the worst part is even SMS by FEO employees contains all the details:

1 to 4 bedroom units in 6 towers,
spacious 191,000 sq ft of site area,
lifestyle amenities,
'excellent value' 1 bedroom 658k and 2 bedroom from 1.15m ,
Rental in area is 2.5 to 3.5k for 1 bedroom so rental yield is 4.5% to 6.3%,

EXCEPT ANY MENTION OF TENURE WHATSOEVER, LEASEHOLD OR OTHERWISE. They normally would mention in their SMS for other projects. They are probably too embarassed to mention. If they say 103 year leasehold, people will ask them why 103 such an odd number and when the neighbouring land is all freehold (especially for those who remember Rose Garden used to be Freehold)? and you don't expect them to say because Far East continues to own the Freehold land. I wonder how many have thrown in the cheques happily assuming it is freehold.

Totally disgusted with such a despicable act by a company owned by singapore's richest man.

an FEO agent mentioned that they've already got 60 chqs in hand - poor idiots

[iamforum]

Well

buyers will know what are they buying

and everyone buy it for a different reason

Why bother about it so much?

You mean those buyers just buy without

studying the project ?

LoL

[Property_Owner]

after going thru page 1 to page 4.. don u guys find it weird that the thread starter nv make a single cooment?? haha.. though i am a agent myself i also find that SOME developers are out to 'con' buyers.. right bro?? yes i do wan to make $ thru comm but after effect is tat the agt kana 'curse' n nt the developer.. haiz...

F*CK OFF!!