Terrace prices are king among landed homes

[jlrx]

so for the not rich like us .. how to make more ?
by holding on .. only means paper gain .. needs to sell to realise the profit in order to buy another right ??

if buy and keep forever is the same as a man who earn $2000 per month and live happily and a man who is worth $100 million (paper worth) is also living happily. there is no different in their life.....so is really quite meaningless.. so i still believe property will appreciate in long term but one should realise the gain and invest again.

You sell your property and then buy someone else's property, that is wasting time and wasting money. It only makes the government, lawyers and property agents very rich with all the stamp duties, legal fees and commissions.

What I suggest is that proud owner sells his property to ay123, and ay123 sells his property to proud owner.

I think what you are looking for is that caveat record stating that you bought this property House 123, AY Road, for $1.5 million in 1999 and then sold it for $2.8 million in 2010.

Then you will feel very happy, "realising" $1.3 million of gain. Then you use that $2.8 million to buy #12-03, Proud Mansion, just to create another caveat record so that hopefully in another ten years, you can again create another caveat record at a higher price.

I tell you there is no need to go to all these trouble.

You can just look at your neighbours' transactions, and know how much your properties have appreciated.

I subscribed to Realink (by SISV) because URA doesn't provide house or unit number so I won't know how far the house is down the road; or which floor if it's a condo. However, nowadays there is this Streetsine.com which provides house and unit numbers as well.

Whenever the transacted price goes up, I go to my EXCEL spreadsheet to update my property portfolio, and the figure goes up. Also can feel equally happy. No need to sell in order to feel happy.

That's why I get very angry with those idiots who fire-sold their condos. It caused my spreadsheet figure to go down in early 2009. Now fortunately it's gone back up again and surpassed the previous peak.

[Regulators]

jlrx, really sympathise with you and i think many would agree with me. People out there are making real profits and see money growing in the bank and you call urself a property investor by just observing market movements and gratifying urself by looking at ur spreadsheets? No doubt the govt gets to earn from those admin fee but property investors always factor that in and they still make decent gains despite all those admin fees so nobody harps on that. i think the whole concept of propertism should go down the drain unless the person is buying and keeping properties not for investment but more as a hobby, like keeping model cars and planes...

You sell your property and then buy someone else's property, that is wasting time and wasting money. It only makes the government, lawyers and property agents very rich with all the stamp duties, legal fees and commissions.

What I suggest is that proud owner sells his property to ay123, and ay123 sells his property to proud owner.

I think what you are looking for is that caveat record stating that you bought this property House 123, AY Road, for $1.5 million in 1999 and then sold it for $2.8 million in 2010.

Then you will feel very happy, "realising" $1.3 million of gain. Then you use that $2.8 million to buy #12-03, Proud Mansion, just to create another caveat record so that hopefully in another ten years, you can again create another caveat record at a higher price.

I tell you there is no need to go to all these trouble.

You can just look at your neighbours' transactions, and know how much your properties have appreciated.

I subscribed to Realink (by SISV) because URA doesn't provide house or unit number so I won't know how far the house is down the road; or which floor if it's a condo. However, nowadays there is this Streetsine.com which provides house and unit numbers as well.

Whenever the transacted price goes up, I go to my EXCEL spreadsheet to update my property portfolio, and the figure goes up. Also can feel equally happy. No need to sell in order to feel happy.

That's why I get very angry with those idiots who fire-sold their condos. It caused my spreadsheet figure to go down in early 2009. Now fortunately it's gone back up again and surpassed the previous peak.

[Regulators]

to add on, it doesnt mean that if a bank values your property at 1 million for example, you are definitely able to sell it at 1 million. buying and selling property for investment is an art and those figures you see on the spreadsheets dont mean anything until you made a killing in the market.

[jlrx]

jlrx, really sympathise with you and i think many would agree with me. People out there are making real profits and see money growing in the bank and you call urself a property investor by just observing market movements and gratifying urself by looking at ur spreadsheets?

Can you tell me what is the difference between looking at the bank statement of the money in the bank and looking at the spreadsheet of my property portfolio?

If you sell your properties in order to make so-called "real profits", then what are you going to do with a few million dollars of cash sitting in the bank?

Please do not tell me you are going to do what proud owner intends to do, i.e. donate to charity.

Then what are you going to do with all the cash if you sell a property?

I can't think of anything to buy with all the cash, other than another property.

if i am retired .. then i might donate part of the money to charity ..

[gfoo]

there is no such thing as Propertism.

Real estates should be viewed two ways: either for Investment or for Consumption

For Investment, have no heart, and transact when it reaches certain profit targets

For Consumption, one should try to reach lifestyle / QoL targets, but you must have a reserve requirement.

The only time your so-called Propertism comes into play is if one already has financial freedom, and accumulates fh land. pigeonholes in e sky ain't nice to accumulate, only good for consumption.

big benefit of having millions in e bank vs spreadsheet - one can go into a showroom and buy an aston martin on his black centurion at a whim.

[Reporter]

In order to appreciate what "jlrx" is trying to preach, you will have to change your mindset that has been conditioned by others.

You must understand that money can be represented in 3 forms:
1. Commodity money (e.g. gold coins, seashells, chocolate bars, etc.).
2. Fiat money (e.g. banknotes, electronic cash, etc.)
3. Property (e.g. land, house, apartment, etc.).

If you can only see money in form 2 (i.e. fiat money), it will not work. You will want to sell your property to realise a "form-2" profit.

However, if you can appreciate form-3 money and profit, then you may even want to exchange your form-2 money into form-3 money.

The problem is not everyone is open to form-3 money yet.

[proud owner]

In order to appreciate what "jlrx" is trying to preach, you will have to change your mindset that has been conditioned by others.

You must understand that money can be represented in 3 forms:
1. Commodity money (e.g. gold coins, seashells, chocolate bars, etc.).
2. Fiat money (e.g. banknotes, electronic cash, etc.)
3. Property (e.g. land, house, apartment, etc.).

If you can only see money in form 2 (i.e. fiat money), it will not work. You will want to sell your property to realise a "form-2" profit.

However, if you can appreciate form-3 money and profit, then you may even want to exchange your form-2 money into form-3 money.

The problem is not everyone is open to form-3 money yet.

and no everyone can afford to BUY only and NOT SELL ,...

at the end of the day ... by your dying bed... you have millions ...but your never really got to enjoy life to the fullest, like how we all wanted ..

only to pass on your portfolio and spreadsheet to your children and grand children ...

and who knows .. they may SELL 1 property to finance a grand funeral ..


i am not cursing you.. i am only painting a possible scenario ..

buying a few properties and seeing them grow in value does give me some satisfaction ... but like gfoo said .. i need Quality of Life as well .. which I can well afford to .. by selling a property when it reaches my target ...

then on any retracement .. i can always buy another .. and add back to my portfolio ..

thats my strategy to achieve both investment and consumption ..

[jlrx]

The superiority of the Propertism religion can be seen from the answers to my question "If you sell your properties, what are you going to do with all the cash in the bank?"

if i am retired .. then i might donate part of the money to charity ..

big benefit of having millions in e bank vs spreadsheet - one can go into a showroom and buy an aston martin on his black centurion at a whim.

What are you talking abt ? This is basic of modern economics of value of money.. Money as a medium of exchange. This is not barter trade. if value is only = "properties" , can you buy a packet of noodles with your it.

I still think properties are better investments than all the above.

[Regulators]

there are a thousand and one things you can do with plenty of money in the bank. I for one love to go on holidays and one can also luxuriate himself with plenty of money.

The superiority of the Propertism religion can be seen from the answers to my question "If you sell your properties, what are you going to do with all the cash in the bank?"














I still think properties are better investments than all the above.

[jlrx]

at the end of the day ... by your dying bed... you have millions ...but your never really got to enjoy life to the fullest, like how we all wanted ..

only to pass on your portfolio and spreadsheet to your children and grand children ...

there are a thousand and one things you can do with plenty of money in the bank. I for one love to go on holidays and one can also luxuriate himself with plenty of money.

I don't see why "enjoy life to the fullest" and "pass on portfolio and spreadsheet to children and grandchildren" should be mutually exclusive.

Yes, there are "a thousand and one things" to do, including the most luxurious holidays, but they don't cost anything near the price of one property.

Even the famous (or infamous ) Perm Sec's cooking holiday at the prestigious french cooking school, ‘Le Cordon Bleu’, costs only $46,500 for a family of three. Do you need to sell a property to finance such a trip?



All these can just settle from cash account, or even through credit card instalments. Just make sure you settle in full every month.

[Regulators]

if you dont know how you can spend your millions, i can definitely help you to spend some.

I don't see why "enjoy life to the fullest" and "pass on portfolio and spreadsheet to children and grandchildren" should be mutually exclusive.

Yes, there are "a thousand and one things" to do, including the most luxurious holidays, but they don't cost anything near the price of one property.

Even the famous (or infamous ) Perm Sec's cooking holiday at the prestigious french cooking school, ‘Le Cordon Bleu’, costs only $46,500 for a family of three. Do you need to sell a property to finance such a trip?



All these can just settle from cash account, or even through credit card instalments. Just make sure you settle in full every month.

[jlrx]

if you dont know how you can spend your millions, i can definitely help you to spend some.

Then my portfolio spreadsheet numbers will fall !!!

Cannot!

I think I'm going to put all my properties into a trust, with the term that they cannot be sold for eternity.

This will prevent them from being sold and then spent by other people.

I think the Government should make a law that when a person dies, all his properties must be put into a trust and cannot be sold for eternity.

His future generations can only withdraw the rental income.

In the event a property gets enbloc-ed, the receipt should be used to purchase another property.

This will have a stabilising effect on the property market, and ensure that property prices can only go up.

Then everybody lives happily ever after, thanks to Propertism religion's central tenet that properties should only be bought. Not sold.

[ay123]

and no everyone can afford to BUY only and NOT SELL ,...

at the end of the day ... by your dying bed... you have millions ...but your never really got to enjoy life to the fullest, like how we all wanted ..

only to pass on your portfolio and spreadsheet to your children and grand children ...

and who knows .. they may SELL 1 property to finance a grand funeral ..


i am not cursing you.. i am only painting a possible scenario ..

buying a few properties and seeing them grow in value does give me some satisfaction ... but like gfoo said .. i need Quality of Life as well .. which I can well afford to .. by selling a property when it reaches my target ...

then on any retracement .. i can always buy another .. and add back to my portfolio ..

thats my strategy to achieve both investment and consumption ..

by leaving a large portfolio to next generation will create a problem to them too......imagine how much they have to pay for tax in order to inherit the properties........

[Property_Owner]

Been rich can be bored at times.

[Reporter]

by leaving a large portfolio to next generation will create a problem to them too......imagine how much they have to pay for tax in order to inherit the properties........

I thought we have abolished estate duty, or taxes collected on wealth left behind?
What tax are you talking about?

[focus]

Been rich can be bored at times.

Maybe you can be less bored if you start sharing some knowledge of property investment here?

[Regulators]

the rich usually want to keep others from their league unless by sharing their wealth secrets, it would make them wealthier

Maybe you can be less bored if you start sharing some knowledge of property investment here?

[jlrx]

Been rich can be bored at times.

Maybe you can be less bored if you start sharing some knowledge of property investment here?

To learn the knowledge of property investment, focus should put in the effort to travel to the southern mystical island - Sentosa Cove - to look for a man walking up and down the beach ... searching for "feeling".

Guys, I used to thought tat life in Sentosa is prefect and maybe what your guys mentioned as priceless or what seattle lakeside living. But till not I have not had this feeling at all. Sigh, been staying here for pass 1 month still searching for that feeling.

[xebay11]

I thought we have abolished estate duty, or taxes collected on wealth left behind?
What tax are you talking about?

Even if such taxes was still around you could always include the name of the scion as owner to avoid paying inheritance taxes am I correct?

[focus]

To learn the knowledge of property investment, focus should put in the effort to travel to the southern mystical island - Sentosa Cove - to look for a man walking up and down the beach ... searching for "feeling".

Haha.. that's a good one
Ok, will go down one of these days to look for that someone with feeling..

[jlrx]

Haha.. that's a good one
Ok, will go down one of these days to look for that someone with feeling..

You better inform Property_Owner first before you go down to Sentosa Cove to look for him, either via this forum or private message.

Don't just pop down impromptu and tap him on his shoulder "Hi!!! Are you Property_Owner?"

Otherwise, you may not be able to learn anything from him ...

Exclusive yes, but also extremely inconvenient. Old people who may need emergency medical treatment better avoid (because will die even before getting out of Sentosa in medical emergency).
Nowsdays even before IR open the entry and exit to Sentosa is already quite jammed up.

Hey, dun scare me leh. I'm a old man staying there with a weak heart.

[Reporter]

Landed homes lift private property market
Prices of landed property rose by 7.7% for the whole of last year
Fiona Chan
The Straits Times
Saturday, 23 January 2010


Prices of semi-detached homes rose by 8.8%, while prices of terrace houses shot up by 10% last year. -- Phhoto: Samuel Ee, ST

Landed homes turned out to be the star performer of the private property market last year, rising far more in price than other types of housing.

As a whole, detached, semi-detached and terrace houses jumped in price by 8.3% in the 4th quarter of last year and 7.7% for the whole of 2009.

This significantly outstripped condominiums and apartments, according to data released by the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) yesterday.
Despite rising 7.2% in the fourth quarter, non-landed property registered a meagre 0.5% price increase for last year.

'Landed homes are limited in supply, so people always aspire towards owning one,' said Ms Chua Chor Hoon, head of South-east Asia research at DTZ Debenham Tie Leung.

'When the market was in a slump, some buyers took the chance to buy landed properties. And now that condominium prices have gone up a lot again, people are seeing better value in landed homes.'

Terrace houses, the cheapest type of landed housing, were the most sought-after. Prices of terraces shot up 10% last year, followed by semi-detached houses with an 8.8% rise.

Detached houses - which include good-class bungalows, the grande dames of Singapore property - rose in price by a smaller 5.6% last year.

Taken together with non-landed property, this translated into overall private home prices rising by 1.8% for the whole of last year.

The rise in prices, despite 2009 being a recession year, was entirely due to the property market roaring back to life in the second half of the year as the economy emerged from recession.

Private home prices jumped 7.4% in the fourth quarter, after soaring 15.8% in the third quarter, said the URA yesterday.

Unlike in earlier quarters, the price increase between October and December was led by more expensive homes nearer to town.

Prices of homes on the city-fringe (RCR) - covering the East Coast, Queenstown and Bishan - rose the most, by almost 10%.

Homes in the core central region (CCR), which refers to the prime districts of 9, 10, 11, Marina Bay and Sentosa, saw prices rise by 7.3%.

For the first time, suburban (OCR) homes were the laggard in the 4th quarter last year, with a price rise of only a 6.3%.

But although overall prices surged in the 4th quarter, home sales slowed considerably.

Only 1,860 new homes were sold in the final quarter of last year, just a third of the sales in the preceding quarter, said Mr Li Hiaw Ho, executive director of CB Richard Ellis Research.

Resale and sub-sale transactions fell by about half in the fourth quarter, which is traditionally a subdued period for home sales. Last year, this coincided with the introduction of government measures to cool the property market in September.

For the whole year, home buyers bought 14,688 new homes from developers and 18,129 homes from other home owners. While this was a big jump from the muted activity in 2008, sales were still lower than during the boom year of 2007, Mr Li said.

He expects home sales to moderate this year after last year's rapid buying activity.

About 8,000 to 10,000 new homes will probably be sold, while prices are projected to rise by 8% to 10% through the year, led by the high-end segment of the market, according to Mr Li's forecasts.

'Already, the year has started with a positive sentiment in light of the Government's forecast of 3% to 5% economic growth for the whole year,' he said. 'Increased hiring and pay rises are also on the cards.'

[samsara]

It is a matter of time that foreigners will be allowed greater leeway where the purchase of landed property is concerned. In recent times, there have been many changes in policies across the board (some even complete U-turns). The implementation of the IRs and F1 racing in Singapore would not have taken place without those policy U-turns.

In 2005, foreigners were finally allowed to purchase apartments in all buildings without requiring prior approval by the relevant authorities in Singapore. This extended to not only leasehold properties but freehold ones as well. The change opened up the market to a lot more possible investment since there has always been strong foreign demand for properties in Singapore.

Currently foreigners require approval from SLA in order to purchase land-titled properties. As the process generally takes more than three weeks and does not always result in approvals, demand in land-titled properties by foreigners has not truly come in.

Sentosa was a test-bed for the reversal of the age-old rule. There were no stringent restrictions (generally) on foreigners buying landed properties there. The result was immense foreign demand manifesting itself. If the result of this is extrapolated to other landed properties on mainland Singapore, we will see huge demand arising if the current restrictions are lifted.

Will the current restrictions be lifted? There are many opponents to this possibility yet there are numerous proponents as well. For one, owners of landed properties will definitely benefit as any relaxation of the current restrictions will allow more foreign demand to come more easily into the market. Like boats in a small river, they will be lifted when the water (demand) level rises because of the opening floodgates (relaxation of restrictions on foreigners).

It is not a matter of if but when. Will you be in a boat when that happens?

[proud owner]

It is a matter of time that foreigners will be allowed greater leeway where the purchase of landed property is concerned. In recent times, there have been many changes in policies across the board (some even complete U-turns). The implementation of the IRs and F1 racing in Singapore would not have taken place without those policy U-turns.

In 2005, foreigners were finally allowed to purchase apartments in all buildings without requiring prior approval by the relevant authorities in Singapore. This extended to not only leasehold properties but freehold ones as well. The change opened up the market to a lot more possible investment since there has always been strong foreign demand for properties in Singapore.

Currently foreigners require approval from SLA in order to purchase land-titled properties. As the process generally takes more than three weeks and does not always result in approvals, demand in land-titled properties by foreigners has not truly come in.

Sentosa was a test-bed for the reversal of the age-old rule. There were no stringent restrictions (generally) on foreigners buying landed properties there. The result was immense foreign demand manifesting itself. If the result of this is extrapolated to other landed properties on mainland Singapore, we will see huge demand arising if the current restrictions are lifted.

Will the current restrictions be lifted? There are many opponents to this possibility yet there are numerous proponents as well. For one, owners of landed properties will definitely benefit as any relaxation of the current restrictions will allow more foreign demand to come more easily into the market. Like boats in a small river, they will be lifted when the water (demand) level rises because of the opening floodgates (relaxation of restrictions on foreigners).

It is not a matter of if but when. Will you be in a boat when that happens?

for monetary gain ..i do hope foreigners can be allowed to buy landed on mainland ..
for for selfish sporean reasons .. i hope not

we are unlike other countries where land is vast .. if foreigners are allowed to buy landed .. there will be NO CHANCE for singaporeans to fulfil their dreams of living and owning a piece of 'heart land'

Sentosa is a different story .. its 99 LH .. it does make make up a basic permanent residence but one for luxurious indulgence .. mind you .. govt is making shxt loads of $$ from selling the land ...for 99 yrs ...

[samsara]

for monetary gain ..i do hope foreigners can be allowed to buy landed on mainland ..
for for selfish sporean reasons .. i hope not

we are unlike other countries where land is vast .. if foreigners are allowed to buy landed .. there will be NO CHANCE for singaporeans to fulfil their dreams of living and owning a piece of 'heart land'

Sentosa is a different story .. its 99 LH .. it does make make up a basic permanent residence but one for luxurious indulgence .. mind you .. govt is making shxt loads of $$ from selling the land ...for 99 yrs ...

When you own a FH strata-titled apartment, you too own a piece of land. It is just that the land is shared by all the strata-title owners of the plot of land on which the strata building sits.

Where then is the differentiation between ownership of FH strata-titled apartments and ownership of FH land? In both cases, there is still ownership of land involved. By this analogy, would it not seem apparent that it is a matter of time that even direct FH land ownership by foreigners would be allowed since foreign ownership of FH strata-titled apartments and, transitively, of the FH land on which the apartments sit, is already permitted?

The relaxation is likely happen in stages where the 99-LH landed properties are first opened up for purchase by foreigners since the window period of ownership is smaller and the government thus retains certain control of redevelopment in future. That would be followed by 999-LH and eventually FH although the time frame of such liberalisation and policy U-turns will be dependent on the overall direction of Singapore evolution as a country (sorry, city I mean).

[proud owner]

When you own a FH strata-titled apartment, you too own a piece of land. It is just that the land is shared by all the strata-title owners of the plot of land on which the strata building sits.

Where then is the differentiation between ownership of FH strata-titled apartments and ownership of FH land? In both cases, there is still ownership of land involved. By this analogy, would it not seem apparent that it is a matter of time that even direct FH land ownership by foreigners would be allowed since foreign ownership of FH strata-titled apartments and, transitively, of the FH land on which the apartments sit, is already permitted?

The relaxation is likely happen in stages where the 99-LH landed properties are first opened up for purchase by foreigners since the window period of ownership is smaller and the government thus retains certain control of redevelopment in future. That would be followed by 999-LH and eventually FH although the time frame of such liberalisation and policy U-turns will be dependent on the overall direction of Singapore evolution as a country (sorry, city I mean).

in a small country like ours .. i dont see it as a possibility at all ..
we simply cannot afford to 'lose ground' ...

[samsara]

in a small country like ours .. i dont see it as a possibility at all ..
we simply cannot afford to 'lose ground' ...

You have already stated the key to this change. In a country it is not possible. However, we are not a country as it has been pointed out by one of our fellowmen. We are a city.

A country is one in which there is loyalty by the state to the people, there is loyalty by the people to the state and there is loyalty by the people to the people. How many of these three conditions do we see today?

If we are not a country and are just a city then inevitably there is little need to preserve/reserve "land" for the people since as globe-trotting city-dwellers, we will just move on as and when environmental conditions change.

[proud owner]

You have already stated the key to this change. In a country it is not possible. However, we are not a country as it has been pointed out by one of our fellowmen. We are a city.

A country is one in which there is loyalty by the state to the people, there is loyalty by the people to the state and there is loyalty by the people to the people. How many of these three conditions do we see today?

If we are not a country and are just a city then inevitably there is little need to preserve/reserve "land" for the people since as globe-trotting city-dwellers, we will just move on as and when environmental conditions change.

i dont see why a city state need not preserve land for its people ..

in Manhattan .. there are even condos where buyers/renters have to be approved by the rest of the owners ..

name me a city state where you can buy landed house ...

[samsara]

i dont see why a city state need not preserve land for its people ..

in Manhattan .. there are even condos where buyers/renters have to be approved by the rest of the owners ..

name me a city state where you can buy landed house ...

The approval of buyers/renters by the rest of the owners is not a mechanism to safeguard "land" ownership. It is more of a soft-regulatory mechanism which transfers the work of ensuring the homogeneity of the estate/project (whichever dimension that homogeneity may operate in based on their environment and culture) to the rest of the owners there.

As far I as know, there is no restriction on foreign property ownership in Monaco (another city-state).

[proud owner]

The approval of buyers/renters by the rest of the owners is not a mechanism to safeguard "land" ownership. It is more of a soft-regulatory mechanism which transfers the work of ensuring the homogeneity of the estate/project (whichever dimension that homogeneity may operate in based on their environment and culture) to the rest of the owners there.

As far I as know, there is no restriction on foreign property ownership in Monaco (another city-state).

i just searched online .. for HOUSES, Bungalows, Land for sale in Monaco .. and NO results

BUT for apts/ flats ...A lot

either theres not a single HOUSE or LAND for sale
or there arent any landed house in monaco at all