Primo Residences (D19, Jln Pelikat, Novelty Group, Freehold)

[ocoloco79]

2 bedder PH? how big is your PES?

What is PES? I only know that the whole unit is 969sft, non livable space include balcony, a roof attic and a jazcuzi..The exact dimentions are not stated in the brochure so i dunno..

[taggy]

Hi, for my case is different as this is my 2nd property so there is a min sum..

i m stating the obvious (most salaried ppl already noe this ):

minimum sum can be make up of ordinary acct + special account. So, if special account have 30k liao, then ordinary acct only need another <30k to make up the minimum sum.

If between husband and wife, one of them have higher special acct amt, then use that guy's cpf for 2 properties first... And also switch to make the 2nd person to pay higher percentage to the hdb loan.....

[teddybear]

City Square Residence is not considered prime district. Luckily you didn't buy there thinking that it is prime and paying a 'prime' price...

City square residence is considered prime district ma, of course expensive! Honesty I m reali grateful to you guys

[gfoo]

May i know why an apartment status is inferior? You mean condo more superior?

not necessarily, but the trend of new launch apartment status max out the plot ratio, and then some what with the planters/bay/balconies. Unlike apartments of yesteryear, today's apartments take 2 semi Ds, tear em down, and build 30-40 apartments over that same land area, throw in a small pool either on the roof or at the car park area, add in a small gym, and charge condo prices.

not all apartments are like that tho. Ola in Mountbatten is apartment status, but has a huge huge pool and its plot ratio is not maximized with a lot of room to grow

[Kenshinto80]

I think it will be difficult to rent out without making a loss.. We bought a penthouse with only 2 brms. Who will be in the right mind to pay $5K for rental? Max I think can only fetch 3K.. That is why I prefer to rent out hdb.. This purchase is bought for own stay...

Haha...Penthouse ar...cool! Put up the floorplan to share lah.

I don't think you should be too worried about the financing. You will be rewarded in the long run. Many people in 2008 were saying property prices will crash and all waiting for firesales....and look what happen. With the IR opening up and helping to boost tourism and hotel industry as well as the world wide economy slowly recovering.....the chances of falling prices in the long term are low.

If land is so easily available in Singapore, then why are apartments get taller and smaller these days? And in future, at the same price, most likely you can only purchase a smaller unit.

[cheerful]

Possible scenarios of
1. Either one of your is out of job, call it quits
In our employment sector, there is always shortage of manpower and we are performing OK, so i pressume we are quite safe in that sense.
2. New arrival babies
Not possible, we do not want kids.
3. Aged parents falling sick
Possible, but our siblings can share.
4. No rental from HDB
Unlikely, if we are renting cheap. 5 room hdb should fetch at least 1.5K?But we can break even at 1K rental to cover monthly payment.
5. Severe Market Correction
Biggest risk would be margin call. but we only borrow 763000, not much compared to many other property owners, so this can only happens if the economy is hit very very hard?

Well, you appear to know what you're doing although some of your posts don't seem to reconcile with one another ... pardon me for asking this, but are you doing some tests here or juz wanna get some assurance huh?

About pt 4, so you did consider renting out the hdb & do know a little about the mkt lah? On the other hand, you r also rite to question who would rent this pte at $5k ....

[gfoo]

What is PES? I only know that the whole unit is 969sft, non livable space include balcony, a roof attic and a jazcuzi..The exact dimentions are not stated in the brochure so i dunno..

ie what proportion of your 969sqft place is actual livable area excluding roof attic/jacuzzi/balcony?

Note that during the downturn in 08/early 09, banks only value PES area at half livable PSF, and that is a big reason why traditionally penthouses with big PES have significantly lower PSF rates.

My advice is to use this forum's search function, and filter 2008 posts and have a slow read. today's exuberance must always be weighted and balanced with the fear and true stories of how banks treated fellow forummers during the downturn. Have 2 sides of the story, then make your own decision

[ocoloco79]

Well, you appear to know what you're doing although some of your posts don't seem to reconcile with one another ... pardon me for asking this, but are you doing some tests here or juz wanna get some assurance huh?

About pt 4, so you did consider renting out the hdb & do know a little about the mkt lah? On the other hand, you r also rite to question who would rent this pte at $5k ....

Erm I dun understand what you mean by test? Of course i need assurance if i am on the right track or not, if not I won't be so stressed! Still have time to pull out before my 20% cash is in.

[ocoloco79]

Haha...Penthouse ar...cool! Put up the floorplan to share lah.

I don't think you should be too worried about the financing. You will be rewarded in the long run. Many people in 2008 were saying property prices will crash and all waiting for firesales....and look what happen. With the IR opening up and helping to boost tourism and hotel industry as well as the world wide economy slowly recovering.....the chances of falling prices in the long term are low.

If land is so easily available in Singapore, then why are apartments get taller and smaller these days? And in future, at the same price, most likely you can only purchase a smaller unit.

This is the floor plan..

[gfoo]

deja vu - layout almost exactly the same as Buckley Residences i was about to buy in Jan 09 - but wife found it a little too small sighz. nice layout

[cheerful]

Erm I dun understand what you mean by test? Of course i need assurance if i am on the right track or not, if not I won't be so stressed! Still have time to pull out before my 20% cash is in.

So have you gotten the assurance that you want from this thread? Or feeling more confused? By the general standard (civil svc = plastic rice bowl), some already said you shld be quite safe. But like what some other here have also advised, search through more sources within & beyond this forum.

chestnut already pointed out mah, the anxiety or 'stress' could be due to the lack of homework (which does not equate to getting assurance) ............ maybe it's still not too late to do leh?

[cheerful]

deja vu - layout almost exactly the same as Buckley Residences i was about to buy in Jan 09 - but wife found it a little too small sighz. nice layout

oso somewat similar to poshgrove east which i missed ... sama sama apt kinda but PGE is condo status lah, but with external staircase (wat if it rains?!!) ...

[ocoloco79]

So have you gotten the assurance that you want from this thread? Or feeling more confused? By the general standard (civil svc = plastic rice bowl), some already said you shld be quite safe. But like what some other here have also advised, search through more sources within & beyond this forum.

chestnut already pointed out mah, the anxiety or 'stress' could be due to the lack of homework (which does not equate to getting assurance) ............ maybe it's still not too late to do leh?

I have been doing homework, that is why i logged in so often to search, but the search function is so general, everytime i type something eg: interest rates/ freehold/ income etc, whole list will come out and with many threads, cannot find much info. maybe I use wrong method? Or could be that i dunno what I should search or what I dunno...Am still doing homework though..

[gfoo]

oso somewat similar to poshgrove east which i missed ... sama sama apt kinda

yah those were the days. PGE went for $800psf, same psf as buckley. but PGE had full facilities, low plot ratio, and great land size. Buckley had a small pool suitable for dogs at best, but is in true blue newton. i remember the pge penthouse going for $675psf due to the large PES. back then, banks will never support full rate PES

[cheerful]

got try to google on streetsine which someone already told u? at least some reference for benchmarking?

[gfoo]

I have been doing homework, that is why i logged in so often to search, but the search function is so general, everytime i type something eg: interest rates/ freehold/ income etc, whole list will come out and with many threads, cannot find much info. maybe I use wrong method? Or could be that i dunno what I should search or what I dunno...Am still doing homework though..

you still haven't answered the most impt qn - do you like the place that much or not? ie truly fall in love with the place w/o justifying your decision, and can picture yourself living very well there. coz only u can answer if you like it enough to take this risk

[cheerful]

yah those were the days. PGE went for $800psf, same psf as buckley. but PGE had full facilities, low plot ratio, and great land size. Buckley had a small pool suitable for dogs at best, but is in true blue newton. i remember the pge penthouse going for $675psf due to the large PES. back then, banks will never support full rate PES

yeap, PGE is full condo status but not exactly full facilities .. at least the tennis court is obviously missing

[ocoloco79]

I like it, but my hubby loves it much more than I do. But if I decided to let it go, he will respect my decision. Now the thing is if we give this a miss, how likely is it to find a top floor unit below 1 mil in future? If there is likelihood, we may want o take the risk of losing the booking fee.. We do not want to come to a situation whereby private properties are beyond our reach.. as you know, our income though stable, are not high... rise very slow too...
Reason for wanting a top floor is that we have been haunted by neighbours above our unit who have 5 young children running about making a lot of noices in wee hours of the night and my health has been seriously affected as I never get good sleep for 5 years. Nothing has changed despite us calling the police for 3 times. That is why we choose penthouse. We are not eligible for EC too.. and it doesn't make sense to for us to sell our hdb and get another resale hdb..

[gfoo]

I like it, but my hubby loves it much more than I do. But if I decided to let it go, he will respect my decision. Now the thing is if we give this a miss, how likely is it to find a top floor unit below 1 mil in future? If there is likelihood, we may want o take the risk of losing the booking fee.. We do not want to come to a situation whereby private properties are beyond our reach.. as you know, our income though stable, are not high... rise very slow too...
Reason for wanting a top floor is that we have been haunted by neighbours above our unit who have 5 young children running about making a lot of noices in wee hours of the night and my health has been seriously affected as I never get good sleep for 5 years. Nothing has changed despite us calling the police for 3 times. That is why we choose penthouse.

don't limit your choices just coz of neighbours - you can always add soundproofing material on your false ceiling when you do you ID.

Have flexibility, and unless you have a good reason to, i would look at already TOPed properties as there is tremendous value still to be found there. It's just a matter of putting in some hard work in househunting.

For example, there was a mixed development in Frankel Ave, FH, 2 storey townhouse, 1300sq ft, about $1kpsf. The special thing about this place is, they 'give 'you 2 balconies and a laundry PES FOC - it's strata titled PES so you only pay for livable/drawn up space. almost 380sqft FOC. My friend just bought it 2 months back.

[Douk]

Agree on the risky part. We are thinking of renting out our 5 room hdb instead of selling it away. It seems more worthwhile to do so.. That is why I am worried these few days.. alot of things on mind.. however after hearing all experts view, I decided to keep it and try to hold it as long as I can...

property investment is about holding power (unless luck is on your side to buy at good timing). At this point, price is high and risk is high. Though there is good chance for break through, this is 50-50 chance.

HDB rental yield is attractive income, but it is only attractive if those are spare $$. it is not worth the risk to hold 2 properties with risk of "margin call".

HDB price is high now, purchase made 5 years ago should have good profit.
Take this profit and move on to your new private apartment than holding it, paying interest for the HDB loan with the rental headache is not worth the rental yield..

[proud owner]

i m stating the obvious (most salaried ppl already noe this ):

minimum sum can be make up of ordinary acct + special account. So, if special account have 30k liao, then ordinary acct only need another <30k to make up the minimum sum.

If between husband and wife, one of them have higher special acct amt, then use that guy's cpf for 2 properties first... And also switch to make the 2nd person to pay higher percentage to the hdb loan.....

are you certain on this

i reemmeber the new rule started 1 Jul 2006 .. if one owns mroe than 1 properties .. and the first is already serviced using CPF ..

in order for 2nd prop to also use CPF to pay loans ..each party, husband and wife ..each MUST have 60k in the Ordinary account ..

thats what my lawyer told me

[august]

Erm I dun understand what you mean by test? Of course i need assurance if i am on the right track or not, if not I won't be so stressed! Still have time to pull out before my 20% cash is in.

i can understand some of your anxiety... bcos u are currently living in a 5 rm HDB but looking at the penthouse's size i reckon u will have some getting used to especially for own stay. Your hdb will be more spacious and livable.

and the purchase is a 2 bedder, current suburban rental for 2 bedder i think max 3k but probably less..





in any case i will keep the purchase, low rental yield or wat.. heck lah just do it lol! btw there is someone here who preaches propertism, reading some of his posts may help your conviction ~~

[Condorich]

I have been doing homework, that is why i logged in so often to search, but the search function is so general, everytime i type something eg: interest rates/ freehold/ income etc, whole list will come out and with many threads, cannot find much info. maybe I use wrong method? Or could be that i dunno what I should search or what I dunno...Am still doing homework though..

Good effort... if you need help, please reveal more details on your outstanding HDB loan... and the cash balance after the 20% in full cold hard cash.

As of now, I would suggest that you give it a miss... why buy a burden when you can be debt free... its not that you have fully paid up your HDB. Civil service not iron rice bowl... even teachers quit....

Its your choice.

[august]

I like it, but my hubby loves it much more than I do. But if I decided to let it go, he will respect my decision. Now the thing is if we give this a miss, how likely is it to find a top floor unit below 1 mil in future? If there is likelihood, we may want o take the risk of losing the booking fee.. We do not want to come to a situation whereby private properties are beyond our reach.. as you know, our income though stable, are not high... rise very slow too...
Reason for wanting a top floor is that we have been haunted by neighbours above our unit who have 5 young children running about making a lot of noices in wee hours of the night and my health has been seriously affected as I never get good sleep for 5 years. Nothing has changed despite us calling the police for 3 times. That is why we choose penthouse. We are not eligible for EC too.. and it doesn't make sense to for us to sell our hdb and get another resale hdb..

aiya keep it lah.. see how it goes. Worse come to worse sell one of them off, no problemo liao. Whereas if u return your unit, u confirm lose 12k plus end of your pty venture.

[xtink]

i agree that government jobs are not iron rice bowl... that is true only IF you continue to stay on for life in the same organisation. Unless u are sign-on as a high paying oficer or similar.

The moment you start to feel fatigue and wants to start looking around, then the bowl will start to crack already.

actually i have been to see primo's site before the launch. i quite like the area also but not willing to part with 1kpsf for that area, although the quantum is ok for those MM units, which is a "rare" find nowadays (if terms of 1kpsf for FH, and relatively near MRT).

[teddybear]

If we look at the market trend, private condos near MRT station and near amenities are unlikely to fall significantly below $1k psf in fore-seenable future. So if you like the place then just keep it for own stay lor. HDB flat can sell (if you don't have cash reserve) or rent out (if you have cash reserve). Property is also a form of investment. In future, if need cash also can downgrade back to HDB because HDB flats no matter what will always be about half price or less than private condos in the same vicinity (otherwise means HDB over-valued or private condos there under-valued).

Yes, you are very observant .I am born in 1979. Bank loan has been approved already. I will be meeting the banker tomorrow and I will seek his advise. After hearing so much from the experts, I realli hope that I can keep the property. But if the risk of servicing is high, I may reali give this dream a miss. I thought of paying the hdb in full, but since it is so cheap at $800 per month, we decided to continue the loan.

Possible scenarios of
1. Either one of your is out of job, call it quits
In our employment sector, there is always shortage of manpower and we are performing OK, so i pressume we are quite safe in that sense.
2. New arrival babies
Not possible, we do not want kids.
3. Aged parents falling sick
Possible, but our siblings can share.
4. No rental from HDB
Unlikely, if we are renting cheap. 5 room hdb should fetch at least 1.5K?But we can break even at 1K rental to cover monthly payment.
5. Severe Market Correction
Biggest risk would be margin call. but we only borrow 763000, not much compared to many other property owners, so this can only happens if the economy is hit very very hard?

[taggy]

are you certain on this

i reemmeber the new rule started 1 Jul 2006 .. if one owns mroe than 1 properties .. and the first is already serviced using CPF ..

in order for 2nd prop to also use CPF to pay loans ..each party, husband and wife ..each MUST have 60k in the Ordinary account ..

thats what my lawyer told me

MUST have 60k in the Ordinary account -> this is definitely not true now. Ordinary acct+Special Account (including the amount used for investments) can be used to meet the minimum sum. http://ask-us.cpf.gov.sg/Home/hybrid...Id=&SourceId=1

But u do strike me on whether both parties must meet minimum sum together.
scenario:
- husband, set aside minimum sum, use cpf for 2 properties
- wife, use cpf for only 1st property
Does the wife need to set aside minimum as well?

my gut feeling is need not, bec my friend's case:
- husband use cpf for condo(1st), no need set aside minimum sum
- wife is not co-owner of the condo, use cpf for the hdb(2nd), no need set aside minimum sum

anyway, due to special acct can be used, then personally, i think actual ordinary acct amt need to set aside become not so big...

[taggy]

ocoloco79, year end NEX opens... D19 become more convenient, cheers

[jlrx]

in any case i will keep the purchase, low rental yield or wat.. heck lah just do it lol! btw there is someone here who preaches propertism, reading some of his posts may help your conviction ~~

Are you referring to me?

Here I come ...

PROPERTISM states that property prices always go up in the long term, hence properties should only be bought. Not sold.

Primo Residences at 201, Jalan Pelikat used to be Pelikat Court at 201, Jalan Pelikat before it was en bloced on 1 Mar 2007 for $10.8 million, with each of the 16 owners getting an average of $675,000.

This was one of those "less profitable" en blocs because the owners sold too early in the 2007 bullrun.

Pelikat Court was launched in 1983 at a then "crazy price" of $240,000 for a 1,100 sq ft (2 bedroom) apartment or $218 psf. All units were snapped up, except for 4 which the developer held for "investment purposes" (the developer also practised a bit of PROPERTISM). The TOP was in 1985.



Now imagine you have a time machine which takes you back to 1983 ...

Would you have committed? Especially when you see headlines like these ...

[ocoloco79]

Jlrx,
I am impressed!!!!, Really! We didn't even know that!

Condorich,
My hdb outstanding loan is $162300. Cash after paying 20%, which will be in coming May is as good as zero. However, on a rate of at least $4K compulsory savings per month from May, we should have at least $120,000 by the time TOP, self projection at around the start of 2013. This also means that no more luxurious life from now.. No more shopping at boutiques and no more fine dining . REno cost I dunno will need how much, can only know when the time comes.
Erm..... You always hit the jackpot. I am a chinese teacher , but I love my job. Just ended 1 week holiday.. luckily it all happened during holidays..

Taggy,

Would it be wiser to transfer full HDB loan to me, and then my hubby pay for the condo? So both need not set aside min sum? But if that is the case, would it be a waste as I will have excess of cpf which could have been use to top up further for the condo.