Waterbank (D14, 99 years leasehold, UOL)

[Wild Falcon]

By the time this project TOPs, there will be a lot more MRT stations coming up - and more efficient lines than circle line as well. So this premium is a bit OTT. There are lots of 99LH projects near MRT that are not commanding this kind of price. And no matter what, this is a 616 units condo - personally i don't like developments more than 450 units. But then, this project chut pattern and offers SOR + 0% bank financing packages - would be too good to resist for most speculators. Looks like the developer sales are doing well - the resale and subsale market seem quiet.

I agree but don't you think when the mrt station is just a stone's throw away, only then can it command such a premium, also not forgetting its just at the city's fringe.

[mcmlxxvi]

It's interesting to see how much are the conservancy and maintenance fees for these 2 projects..

Was told $300 for 2BR @ Waterbank.

[DC33_2008]

UOL has soid its Southbank project too cheap in 2006 at only $600psf. Hence, they are determined to make a good profit from Waterbank even though it is further away from CBD as compared to Southbank.

[cl0ver]

UOL has soid its Southbank project too cheap in 2006 at only $600psf. Hence, they are determined to make a good profit from Waterbank even though it is further away from CBD as compared to Southbank.

now i see the resemblance in naming... lol
the cabanas was going for 1.3mil. it comes with a private car park just under your unit which goes into the overall sqft.....
but i find it weird that it means everyday driving up to the 5th floor to your unit!

[neptbay]

I agree that in years to come more condos will come on stream near to mrt stations, but one like WB so near the city is not easy to come by. In fact I am still waiting for the govt to release details and more imptlythe location of the stations for the Eastern Line. I am sure when the announcements are made, there will definitely be a 'price revision' in the properties there.

In tonight's news, the govt just announced they will spend up to a billion $ to spruce up some HDB estates and Kallang is one of the precincts. Admittedly, the surrounding areas near WB and DR are not up to par yet, but I am sure in 3 years' time, the areas will be transformed.

Regarding SouthBank being priced at where they were, one can be sure it was the right price then. UOL won't
be so naive to price itself out of the existing market back then. To me, WB's location is better situated than SB. The latter is nestled together with quite a sizeable units of light industries and no offence, near the caskets.

[fairlady04]

Why do u say there will be "more efficient lines" than circle line? Circle line is high frequency, and from Dakota, takes <8 mins to Promenade (Millenia Walk, Millenia Tower, Centennia Tower, Suntec City) and another 2 mins to Esplanade Station (Suntec, Raffles Link offices, CityLink Mall, Raffles City). There is also seamless connection with the main MRT lines N-S, E-W at the interchanges. I must say it is even better connected than the North-east line, which takes 10 mins to walk from main line station just to switch trains, whether u are at Dhoby Ghaut or Outram. If Kovan Residences (one block within 5metres distance away from the other!) is asking for S$1000psf, Waterbank is not "OTT" asking for S$1300psf, for the unobstructed 180 degree view of city and Marina Bay.

By the time this project TOPs, there will be a lot more MRT stations coming up - and more efficient lines than circle line as well. So this premium is a bit OTT. There are lots of 99LH projects near MRT that are not commanding this kind of price. And no matter what, this is a 616 units condo - personally i don't like developments more than 450 units. But then, this project chut pattern and offers SOR + 0% bank financing packages - would be too good to resist for most speculators. Looks like the developer sales are doing well - the resale and subsale market seem quiet.

[DC33_2008]

Which is better? Geylang or Casket? Flats near the Dakota and Mounbatten MRT stns have already being upgraded. It is probably away from the stations. Southbank has already reached $1520psf. Not sure about WB?

I agree that in years to come more condos will come on stream near to mrt stations, but one like WB so near the city is not easy to come by. In fact I am still waiting for the govt to release details and more imptlythe location of the stations for the Eastern Line. I am sure when the announcements are made, there will definitely be a 'price revision' in the properties there.

In tonight's news, the govt just announced they will spend up to a billion $ to spruce up some HDB estates and Kallang is one of the precincts. Admittedly, the surrounding areas near WB and DR are not up to par yet, but I am sure in 3 years' time, the areas will be transformed.

Regarding SouthBank being priced at where they were, one can be sure it was the right price then. UOL won't
be so naive to price itself out of the existing market back then. To me, WB's location is better situated than SB. The latter is nestled together with quite a sizeable units of light industries and no offence, near the caskets.

[teddybear]

Even being close to MRT station doesn't mean the owners there will take MRT and give up cars? If the owners can own a $1.5m or more property, they won't want to own a car for conveniency?
Own a private property that by right should be entitled to at least 1 car park space (but didn't) may end up in future fighting with HDB dwellers for car park when they already have car park crunch? (but HDB dwellers pay cheap cheap for their HDB flats so no complain but to pay $1.5m to get shit (ops, I mean not getting even a car park space in their "exclusive" private estate)?. Ops, wrong choice of words again - 600+ units don't think can be considered "exclusive".
616 units with about 500 car park lots? About 19% of the owners will be short of car park space! (if we consider those units with at least 2 cars then ).

By the time this project TOPs, there will be a lot more MRT stations coming up - and more efficient lines than circle line as well. So this premium is a bit OTT. There are lots of 99LH projects near MRT that are not commanding this kind of price. And no matter what, this is a 616 units condo - personally i don't like developments more than 450 units. But then, this project chut pattern and offers SOR + 0% bank financing packages - would be too good to resist for most speculators. Looks like the developer sales are doing well - the resale and subsale market seem quiet.

[neptbay]

Which is better? Geylang or Casket? Flats near the Dakota and Mounbatten MRT stns have already being upgraded. It is probably away from the stations. Southbank has already reached $1520psf. Not sure about WB?

Which is better, Geylang or casket? Its not for me to know..
If you have read the papers recently, more raids are conducted now in the Geylang belt, and if I am not mistaken, activities and streetside peddlings have toned down...Dont forget, there are budget hotels now near the SB area too..

So what if SB has hit the $1500psf level now. 3 years down the road, WB may appreciate too..

In my opinion, WB is in a much better location than SB.

When the WB parcel of land was tendered out and results made known, 7 bids were twice the reserve price...this does speak volume of this site...a jewel in the making?????

[DC33_2008]

At least we know about the present and it is factual. Not sure about future? Got to look at the crystal ball as there will be a lot of development TOP next year and the year after.

Which is better, Geylang or casket? Its not for me to know..
If you have read the papers recently, more raids are conducted now in the Geylang belt, and if I am not mistaken, activities and streetside peddlings have toned down...Dont forget, there are budget hotels now near the SB area too..

So what if SB has hit the $1500psf level now. 3 years down the road, WB may appreciate too..

In my opinion, WB is in a much better location than SB.

When the WB parcel of land was tendered out and results made known, 7 bids were twice the reserve price...this does speak volume of this site...a jewel in the making?????

[neptbay]

At least we know about the present and it is factual. Not sure about future? Got to look at the crystal ball as there will be a lot of development TOP next year and the year after.

The Sports Hub and the URA 2008 masterplan...surely these will be up and running soon..

Yeah, I heard you about the Sports Hub should have been up by now, but due to the 2007 crisis , it was temporarily shelved due to fundings...but fret down, these will be in place hopefully in 5 years' time...

Cheers!!

[neptbay]

There is a writeup on Waterbank in The Edge Singapore dated 19th April 2010 pg CC6 to CC7...

If you have bought a unit, just say you will feel good..very good indeed....

One gentleman bought 4 units.....!!!!!!!!

[loonymaloney]

does anyone have any idea on what the developer is trying to achieve with the below "Dual Key" floor plan?

http://waterbank.sg/pdf/Dakota_TypeDK_DKT.pdf

[sleek]

Singapore Property Review of FCL's 8@Woodleigh Dual Key apartments :-

The unique aspect of this development is the "Buy 1 Get 2" units called dual key concept. If you plan to buy a 3 bedroom apartment which you would share with your parents, you could try this interesting layout. This could also be used for sub-letting a part of the apartment, providing additional income. What we do not like in this layout is the need to enter through the additional kitchen for the smaller studio unit.

does anyone have any idea on what the developer is trying to achieve with the below "Dual Key" floor plan?

http://waterbank.sg/pdf/Dakota_TypeDK_DKT.pdf

[august]

does anyone have any idea on what the developer is trying to achieve with the below "Dual Key" floor plan?

http://waterbank.sg/pdf/Dakota_TypeDK_DKT.pdf

its a mass mkt condo feature that iirc began with Caspian ~
for multi-generation living under 1 roof but yet have some privacy, something like that... i think those new upcoming HDBs at dawson hv something like this too

sometimes from the layout and unit-mix u can tell what mkt segments the developers are trying to target.






in this rgd i find DR a better buy than WB hehe

[loonymaloney]

that's what i was thinking about as well. but the bedroom in the 'studio' is sharing with the same balcony as the 'other apartment', so privacy is not definitely not there for the tenant if it's to be rented out. and i guess a standalone studio would be more attractive in this case.

however, it's a good concept if it's a stay with the in-laws but i just feel the layout is not maximized in this case.

Singapore Property Review of FCL's 8@Woodleigh Dual Key apartments :-

The unique aspect of this development is the "Buy 1 Get 2" units called dual key concept. If you plan to buy a 3 bedroom apartment which you would share with your parents, you could try this interesting layout. This could also be used for sub-letting a part of the apartment, providing additional income. What we do not like in this layout is the need to enter through the additional kitchen for the smaller studio unit.

[urban]

that's what i was thinking about as well. but the bedroom in the 'studio' is sharing with the same balcony as the 'other apartment', so privacy is not definitely not there for the tenant if it's to be rented out. and i guess a standalone studio would be more attractive in this case.

however, it's a good concept if it's a stay with the in-laws but i just feel the layout is not maximized in this case.

The floor space is too small to create 2 dining and kitchen areas. And as a result both sides will feel it is too small. This would make more sense in a larger unit or those penthouses.

[Wild Falcon]

Obviously for sub-letting. In Geylang area, many units are divided into smaller rooms to sublet to individuals. So 3 bedder unit can be cut out into small sections for ease of subletting. The developer obviously has done his research on the potential buyers and tenants in the area.

does anyone have any idea on what the developer is trying to achieve with the below "Dual Key" floor plan?

http://waterbank.sg/pdf/Dakota_TypeDK_DKT.pdf

[Wild Falcon]

What's the use of living near the Sports Hub? Every weekend hear the loudspeaker from the schools doing their "Sports Day"? Living near the Sports Hub is not a plus point. At $1300psf for a 99LH condo with >600 units with significant parking shortfall and no underground parking and visitors probably have to find parking elsewhere and walk over, I'm not exactly sure what upside people are thinking of. I mean maybe the upside is $1500psf but that's not exactly a lot is it? And there are some "prime" resale condos that are trading at that range or even lower. But I guess no one development offers the SOR + 0% interest which is next best to deferred payment scheme already. Looks like the developers always know how to "siam" the government's rules.

The Sports Hub and the URA 2008 masterplan...surely these will be up and running soon..

Yeah, I heard you about the Sports Hub should have been up by now, but due to the 2007 crisis , it was temporarily shelved due to fundings...but fret down, these will be in place hopefully in 5 years' time...

Cheers!!

[neptbay]

Obviously for sub-letting. In Geylang area, many units are divided into smaller rooms to sublet to individuals. So 3 bedder unit can be cut out into small sections for ease of subletting. The developer obviously has done his research on the potential buyers and tenants in the area.

This is from Wild Falcon too....

What's the use of living near the Sports Hub? Every weekend hear the loudspeaker from the schools doing their "Sports Day"? Living near the Sports Hub is not a plus point. At $1300psf for a 99LH condo with >600 units with significant parking shortfall and no underground parking and visitors probably have to find parking elsewhere and walk over, I'm not exactly sure what upside people are thinking of. I mean maybe the upside is $1500psf but that's not exactly a lot is it? And there are some "prime" resale condos that are trading at that range or even lower. But I guess no one development offers the SOR + 0% interest which is next best to deferred payment scheme already. Looks like the developers always know how to "siam" the government's rules.

Well, if what you said that the developer has done their research re subletting , then I am sure they must have also done in depth survey and research on the shortfall of car park lots...Obviously a development near a mrt station will attract more investors than home occupiers, meaning tenants are more likely to rely on train services than owning cars.

Its not only the Sports Hub alone, what abt the shopping complexes and the proximity to the IRs, Esplanade and the such? For those who are working in the city area, they are most likely to find accommodation nearby and rely on the trains.

Sports Day isnt it an annual affair? Anyway, school activites and hence "noises" take place during the day, at which time most of the residents will be at work..

"Prime" resale condos yes can fetch at $1300psf, but have you noticed their "tired" looks? Probably the residents there are waiting to en bloc their properties...

If the upside is $1500 psf doesnt it mean that there is already potential there already...

Just my 2 cents' worth..

[DC33_2008]

Kallang /Whampoa is no where near WB nor DR.

HDB commits $1b to upgrade 85,000 households in 8 towns

Posted by luxuryasiahome on April 18, 2010
The Housing and Development Board (HDB) has committed another $1 billion to upgrade eight towns.
Deputy PM and Minister for Home Affairs, Wong Kan Seng announced this at the HDB’s 50th anniversary celebrations on Sunday.
The eight towns are in the Central zone, namely Ang Mo Kio, Toa Payoh, Bishan, Serangoon, Kallang/Whampoa, Queesntown, Bukit Merah and Central.
This is on top of $3.4 billion spent since 1990, which has benefited some 150,000 households there.
Mr Wong said the additional spending would be used to upgrade the living environment of another 85,000 households, through programmes like Home Improvement and Lift Upgrading.
“I can assure you that as long as we have the financial resources, the government will continue to expand upgrading programmes to all other households eligible,” said Mr Wong.
Source : Channel NewsAsia – 18 Apr 2010




The Kallang (Whampoa) HDB estate residents have access to a convenient travel experience via the road and railway transportation network.
The local residents of Kallang / Whampoa HDB Estate are served by Kallang MRT (EW10) and Boon Keng MRT Station (NE9) while commuting by train. Construction of the Stadium MRT Station, which is proposed to be functional by 2010, is also underway.

I agree that in years to come more condos will come on stream near to mrt stations, but one like WB so near the city is not easy to come by. In fact I am still waiting for the govt to release details and more imptlythe location of the stations for the Eastern Line. I am sure when the announcements are made, there will definitely be a 'price revision' in the properties there.

In tonight's news, the govt just announced they will spend up to a billion $ to spruce up some HDB estates and Kallang is one of the precincts. Admittedly, the surrounding areas near WB and DR are not up to par yet, but I am sure in 3 years' time, the areas will be transformed.

Regarding SouthBank being priced at where they were, one can be sure it was the right price then. UOL won't
be so naive to price itself out of the existing market back then. To me, WB's location is better situated than SB. The latter is nestled together with quite a sizeable units of light industries and no offence, near the caskets.

[focus]

Oh..i found one bugbear...
Waterbank and Dakota Residence are situated in between low-rise rental housing (if i am not wrong)...

So... i'm not sure whether the crime rate or crowd will be of concern to anyone willing to rent the place or actual owners with kids living there or ladies going back at night from mrt.

[smallant]

Gd pt ! tear it down, clear it and sell the land to build another condo ??

After all, gd $ for a pc of land leh ...

[neptbay]

Oh..i found one bugbear...
Waterbank and Dakota Residence are situated in between low-rise rental housing (if i am not wrong)...

So... i'm not sure whether the crime rate or crowd will be of concern to anyone willing to rent the place or actual owners with kids living there or ladies going back at night from mrt.

I would appreciate the fact that you dont look down on those people renting those flats....are you subscribing to the idea that all poor people "rob and steal".??

Another sidenote, are you not aware that there is a neighbourhood police post nearby in one of the HDB blocks?

[Wild Falcon]

Hey neptbay, I'm just stating my views on the project (below-average quality with no underground parking, uninspiring architecture, views of concrete jungle etc) and feel the upside is limited and rental yield may not be worth $1300psf. Bear in mind, even The Sail 667 sq ft unit is only fetching $3000+ rental - nothing great. And I notice the well-paid expats usually do drive - and therefore the non-driving expats rental budget could be well below $5k even for 3 bedders in D14. But of course, obviously there are people who hoot 4 units and just like yourself, feel it is a great deal. Good luck for your purchase!

This is from Wild Falcon too....

What's the use of living near the Sports Hub? Every weekend hear the loudspeaker from the schools doing their "Sports Day"? Living near the Sports Hub is not a plus point. At $1300psf for a 99LH condo with >600 units with significant parking shortfall and no underground parking and visitors probably have to find parking elsewhere and walk over, I'm not exactly sure what upside people are thinking of. I mean maybe the upside is $1500psf but that's not exactly a lot is it? And there are some "prime" resale condos that are trading at that range or even lower. But I guess no one development offers the SOR + 0% interest which is next best to deferred payment scheme already. Looks like the developers always know how to "siam" the government's rules.

Well, if what you said that the developer has done their research re subletting , then I am sure they must have also done in depth survey and research on the shortfall of car park lots...Obviously a development near a mrt station will attract more investors than home occupiers, meaning tenants are more likely to rely on train services than owning cars.

Its not only the Sports Hub alone, what abt the shopping complexes and the proximity to the IRs, Esplanade and the such? For those who are working in the city area, they are most likely to find accommodation nearby and rely on the trains.

Sports Day isnt it an annual affair? Anyway, school activites and hence "noises" take place during the day, at which time most of the residents will be at work..

"Prime" resale condos yes can fetch at $1300psf, but have you noticed their "tired" looks? Probably the residents there are waiting to en bloc their properties...

If the upside is $1500 psf doesnt it mean that there is already potential there already...

Just my 2 cents' worth..

[neptbay]

Hey neptbay, I'm just stating my views on the project (below-average quality with no underground parking, uninspiring architecture, views of concrete jungle etc) and feel the upside is limited and rental yield may not be worth $1300psf. Bear in mind, even The Sail 667 sq ft unit is only fetching $3000+ rental - nothing great. And I notice the well-paid expats usually do drive - and therefore the non-driving expats rental budget could be well below $5k even for 3 bedders in D14. But of course, obviously there are people who hoot 4 units and just like yourself, feel it is a great deal. Good luck for your purchase!

Hey hello Wild Falcon, like you, I am also just expressing my views and opinions...Well you tend to be all negative, whereas I am on the other side negating all yr vibes. Yes, I do feel its a good investment..

If you "happen" to purchase a high floor unit, you will be looking down at the concrete jungle and enjoy an open and uninterrupted view of the sea, albeit from a distance though..

If one person can hoot 4 units in exchange for a semi D bungalow, need I say more?? If 7 developers can bid 2 times the reserve price, are you to tell them that they have made a grave mistake or are you just missing something???

My 2 cents' worth again..

[Reporter]

丽水湾616单位　已售出超过500个
联合早报
星期二, 20-4-2010

房地产销售步伐维持强劲，发展商推出了更多新单位出售。

华业集团（UOL）位于达科达弯的丽水湾（Waterbank at Dakota）在上个周末再卖出130个单位，每平方英尺的价格介于1000元至1300元($1,000 psf to $1,300 psf)。

这个拥有616个单位的共管公寓项目，靠近达科达地铁站，从预售至今，已售出了超过500个单位，华业集团打算在来临的周末，推出更多新的单位。

集团营运总裁粘为信透露，来自本地买家的需求强劲，买家中，约88％是本地人，多数拥有私人住宅的地址。

粘为信认为，那是因为本地人对这个地点熟悉，主要是买来自己居住或买来养老。买家中也有有孩子的年轻夫妇。

由于面河、面向市区和有地住宅的单位都没有阻挡，粘为信相信，这是项目受欢迎的原因。此外，由于项目在上个周末（17日）推出时，刚好碰上达科达地铁站（地铁环线）启用，因此，增加了项目的卖点。

远东机构受询时也表示，在过去两个星期，销售业绩大致维持平稳，每个星期卖出了34个单位。

由于远东在同一时间内售卖不同共管公寓项目的单位，因此，所售卖的单位从大众化私宅到高档豪宅单位都有。据了解，其中卖得比较好的两个项目是在去年就推出，已在市场上一段日子的Cyan和新乐园（Mi Casa）。

[focus]

I would appreciate the fact that you dont look down on those people renting those flats....are you subscribing to the idea that all poor people "rob and steal".??

Another sidenote, are you not aware that there is a neighbourhood police post nearby in one of the HDB blocks?

Of course not. I live in HDB too.
If we need to be politically correct, I would say all who live in HDB are the same, trying to earn a honest living. However, there are always black sheeps around and would it be more probable for those to appear more frequently in those HDB? I don't know. I was just raising a concern (which might not be substantiated).

[teddybear]

So the police post will be effective in deterring any crime? If so there will be no crime in Singapore (since Singapore so small)!

Points to consider:
1) Majority of Singaporeans live in HDB flats, no problem with that. Still, private properties estates & enclaves with no HDB flats nearby tends to command much better prices and premiums compared to those near HDB estates.
2) Now, these are not just HDB flats, these are HDB rental flats! We don't know why these people are renting there, but we know most of them are in financial difficulties otherwise govt won't rent to them.
3) What is the probability of a person committing crime when they are in financial difficulties in Singapore (cum there is no social security net in Singapore) vs somebody who has the money and live in private properties?
4) Do you think a private property in a private properties enclave with no HDB flats in sight / nearby or a private property between rental HDB flats &/or even near workers' dormitories will give people much better sense of safety, security, high-class environment, premium for further capital appreciation, etc?


Quote:
Originally Posted by neptbay
I would appreciate the fact that you dont look down on those people renting those flats....are you subscribing to the idea that all poor people "rob and steal".??

Another sidenote, are you not aware that there is a neighbourhood police post nearby in one of the HDB blocks?

Of course not. I live in HDB too.
If we need to be politically correct, I would say all who live in HDB are the same, trying to earn a honest living. However, there are always black sheeps around and would it be more probable for those to appear more frequently in those HDB? I don't know. I was just raising a concern (which might not be substantiated).

[neptbay]

[quote=teddybear]So the police post will be effective in deterring any crime? If so there will be no crime in Singapore (since Singapore so small)!

Points to consider:

1) Majority of Singaporeans live in HDB flats, no problem with that. Still, private properties estates & enclaves with no HDB flats nearby tends to command much better prices and premiums compared to those near HDB estates.

2) Now, these are not just HDB flats, these are HDB rental flats! We don't know why these people are renting there, but we know most of them are in financial difficulties otherwise govt won't rent to them.

3) What is the probability of a person committing crime when they are in financial difficulties in Singapore (cum there is no social security net in Singapore) vs somebody who has the money and live in private properties?

4) Do you think a private property in a private properties enclave with no HDB flats in sight / nearby or a private property between rental HDB flats &/or even near workers' dormitories will give people much better sense of safety, security, high-class environment, premium for further capital appreciation, etc?

.........................

Yes, I am afraid to say that NPP does play a role in deterring crimes, maybe you stay in an exclusive enclave whereby there is no need for the presence of a NPP.

We are not comparing to the high end luxury condos, WB is considered an above average mass mkt type of project and being near HDB with its amenities and of course MRT's promixity make it an almost sell out project..

People staying in these rental units have reasons for staying there. Yes, they may be in financial difficulties, but I am sure there are also others who have been left behind by their spouse, children and hence to fend for themselves. The residents of the rental units are elderly people, I have seen them and I cant imagine them doing crimes; rob and steal....

You asked what is "the probability of a person committing crime when they are in financial difficulties in Singapore?" Are you implying its high and very likely? Such people may be poor but I dont think they are desperate to that extend that you made out them to be. Please have a heart for them.

Have you gone down to the site in the 1st place? I have and let me tell you its in a nice, quiet corner at the end of Dakota Crescent, its just behind a secondary school and between a block of HDB executive apartments.

Just next door to a MRT station, well known hawker centre, city fringe...yes WB will enjoy further capital appreciation...