MRT in D15 *eastern region line

[Sherry]

I am sorry its a common knowledge that an individual net worth is measured by the amount of investable assets EXCLUDING own home. So please dont waste time trying to invent your own definition just to suit your own circumstance.

It is not so clear cut that primary residence has to be excluded from a calculation of net worth. For instance, if A and B have similar assets except that A owns and lives in a GCB while B owns and lives in a HDB flat, it will be counter-intuitive to say that they have the same net worth. A is obviously "worth more" and wealthier. I would definitely prefer to be in his position.

Net worth is just the difference between asset and liability and should not automatically be equated with "investable assets".

[Ringo33]

It is not so clear cut that primary residence has to be excluded from a calculation of net worth. For instance, if A and B have similar assets except that A owns and lives in a GCB while B owns and lives in a HDB flat, it will be counter-intuitive to say that they have the same net worth. A is obviously "worth more" and wealthier. I would definitely prefer to be in his position.

Net worth is just the difference between asset and liability and should not automatically be equated with "investable assets".

This sort of childish hypothetical examples are only good for bedtime stories as there are no such thing as asset rich but cash poor GCB dweller in Singapore nor will anyone find any meaning in comparing HDB dwellers to GCB owners.

To be living in GCB, your annual property tax will runs in > 30K, this is excluding the few thousand dollar per month just for utilities and maintenance.

Again, please dont try to reinvent the wheel of how people define networth to suit your own circumstances because it only make you look like someone desperate to be part of the game when you know you are just a spectator.

[Ringo33]

Sherry, may I know whats your name in your previous life in this forum?

[Sherry]

This sort of childish hypothetical examples are only good for bedtime stories as there are no such thing as asset rich but cash poor GCB dweller in Singapore nor will anyone find any meaning in comparing HDB dwellers to GCB owners.

To be living in GCB, your annual property tax will runs in > 30K, this is excluding the few thousand dollar per month just for utilities and maintenance.

Again, please dont try to reinvent the wheel of how people define networth to suit your own circumstances because it only make you look like someone desperate to be part of the game when you know you are just a spectator.

The (admittedly extreme) example is just to illustrate the general point that people allocate their net worth differently across different asset classes. The example will still work if we replace the GCB with a private condo. It also does not mean that person A must be "cash poor". Both A and B can have a lot of other financial assets but their net worth will still be different. As I said, you have simply conflated net worth with investable assets.

Lastly, is it so difficult to have a more polite discussion? I was just trying to throw some light on a technical point.

[Sherry]

Sherry, may I know whats your name in your previous life in this forum?

I have been reading posts here for a long time but have seldom posted anything.

[Ringo33]

The (admittedly extreme) example is just to illustrate the general point that people allocate their net worth differently across different asset classes. The example will still work if we replace the GCB with a private condo. It also does not mean that person A must be "cash poor". Both A and B can have a lot of other financial assets but their net worth will still be different. As I said, you have simply conflated net worth with investable assets.

Lastly, is it so difficult to have a more polite discussion? I was just trying to throw some light on a technical point.

a) There is no point trying to pretend to be polite just because you are using a new forum account.

b) Your home is not your investment, it consumption.

c) there is a reason why HNWI, is defined as "someone with net assets of at least US$1 million, excluding his main residence and everyday possessions" , and NOT "someone with assets of at least US$1m including his main residence because GCB can downgrade to condo"

Honestly whats is the point of having to downgrade yourself to be upgraded? Isnt that wearing a shoe that is too big?

So far, I have not really heard of any GCB owners down grading to condo just because they needed the investment asset to be part of the game. Have you?

[Ringo33]

I have been reading posts here for a long time but have seldom posted anything.

I can see that you are only keen in reading what I post. I will take that as a compliment.

[Sherry]

a) There is no point trying to pretend to be polite just because you are using a new forum account.

b) Your home is not your investment, it consumption.

c) there is a reason why HNWI, is defined as "someone with net assets of at least US$1 million, excluding his main residence and everyday possessions" , and NOT "someone with assets of at least US$1m including his main residence because GCB can downgrade to condo"

Honestly whats is the point of having to downgrade yourself to be upgraded? Isnt that wearing a shoe that is too big?

So far, I have not really heard of any GCB owners down grading to condo just because they needed the investment asset to be part of the game. Have you?

Eh... why should I pretend to be polite?
Anyway, who says anything about downgrading? I am just trying to illustrate the point that excluding primary residence from the computation of net worth is problematic, especially when it is often the most valuable personal or household asset.

For further reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_worth

http://www.singstat.gov.sg/publicati...eet/op-e24.pdf

[Ringo33]

Eh... why should I pretend to be polite?
Anyway, who says anything about downgrading? I am just trying to illustrate the point that excluding primary residence from the computation of net worth is problematic, especially when it is often the most valuable personal or household asset.

For further reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_worth

http://www.singstat.gov.sg/publicati...eet/op-e24.pdf

There is no need to use hypothetical fairytale e,g, like GCB vs HDB, GCB can downgrade to condo etc, for illustration because HNWI doesnt make their wealth from selling their homes so that they have got $1m of extra cash outside their home, they make their wealth from their career, businesses and investment which most of the time is worth more than their home.

like I said early, please dont try to reinvent the definition of networth because of personal circumstance. If you dont have, means you dont have it, there is no need to force.

[Sherry]

There is no need to use hypothetical fairytale e,g, like GCB vs HDB, GCB can downgrade to condo etc, for illustration because HNWI doesnt make their wealth from selling their homes so that they have got $1m of extra cash outside their home, they make their wealth from their career, businesses and investment which most of the time is worth more than their home.

like I said early, please dont try to reinvent the definition of networth because of personal circumstance. If you dont have, means you dont have it, there is no need to force.

I am not sure why I need to "reinvent" the definition of net worth when I am just repeating a commonly understood concept that has existed long before me.

Net Worth = Asset minus Liability.

If you don't think that the home you own is an asset you are welcome to give it to me : )

I also don't see how HNWI make their money has any bearing on an accounting identity.

[Ringo33]

I am not sure why I need to "reinvent" the definition of net worth when I am just repeating a commonly understood concept that has existed long before me.

Net Worth = Asset minus Liability.

If you don't think that the home you own is an asset you are welcome to give it to me : )

I also don't see how HNWI make their money has any bearing on an accounting identity.

If your home.is your only property just live and be happy don't need to bother about property price up and down.

[minority]

This sort of childish hypothetical examples are only good for bedtime stories as there are no such thing as asset rich but cash poor GCB dweller in Singapore nor will anyone find any meaning in comparing HDB dwellers to GCB owners.

To be living in GCB, your annual property tax will runs in > 30K, this is excluding the few thousand dollar per month just for utilities and maintenance.

Again, please dont try to reinvent the wheel of how people define networth to suit your own circumstances because it only make you look like someone desperate to be part of the game when you know you are just a spectator.

Lol. Good 1.

[eng81157]

There is no need to use hypothetical fairytale e,g, like GCB vs HDB, GCB can downgrade to condo etc, for illustration because HNWI doesnt make their wealth from selling their homes so that they have got $1m of extra cash outside their home, they make their wealth from their career, businesses and investment which most of the time is worth more than their home.

like I said early, please dont try to reinvent the definition of networth because of personal circumstance. If you dont have, means you dont have it, there is no need to force.

don't need to cook up some BS definition of net worth. if you can better how banks and accountants define net worth, i challenge you to post your equation.

why don't you go ask around which banker or accountant will take an asset off the books just because the owner lives in it? epic KAM GONG

[Ringo33]

don't need to cook up some BS definition of net worth. if you can better how banks and accountants define net worth, i challenge you to post your equation.

why don't you go ask around which banker or accountant will take an asset off the books just because the owner lives in it? epic KAM GONG

There is a reason why no one, except trolls with multiple forum account, is really interested to engage in any conversation with you..

Another classic...


R33 : Posted an article about WESTPOINT hospital doing upgrading

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...to/962532.html


Kamgong No.1 : KAM GONG!! NUHS is considered to be in jurong locale??!!? why don't you take a step further and claim anything to the west of sheares bridge is considered jurong!

Kamgong No. 2 : pls lor any idiot knows that NUHS is west coast and not in anyway related to JURONG. the only hospital in jurong is the yet to open NTF hospital.

R33 : I wonder who is the idiot who is talking about NUHS!!!

Kamgong No. 1 : kam gong! just because an existing facility is going to be a step-down care partner for NUHS, so it adds to jurong's attractiveness?!

**notice how kamgong try to peng satay???**

R33 : Have you find out who is that IDIOTS who was talking about NUHS?

Kamgong No. 1: the same idiot who posted the article and made a big hooha over nothing. hint: you just have to look in the mirror


EPIC!!!!

[Ringo33]

Not convince?

Try this one here


http://forums.condosingapore.com/sho...postcount=4873

[Ringo33]

Still not convince?

R33 : Those living around the southern coast area might be in for a big surprise when URA release the Masterplan 2013.

Kamgong : so? you're taking this as gospel truth?

Kamgong : and yes, i believe that the gospel is truth


See how he tries to paraphase what I said and then contradict himself about gospel? Or perhaps he is incapable to understanding what he is reading? or worst, could be both?

And then go on and on with all sort of childish argument?

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=18869


Dont waste my time kid, just read my signature.

[eng81157]

eh kam gong, stay on the topic and stop trying to bringing up dead issues that you twist for your own convenience.

show us how bankers and accountants disregard including owner-stay properties when calculating net worth.

SHOW US - KAM GONG!

[clemdale24]

Ok.. umm lets stop the arguing and get back on topic.

Anyone been to TK road park recently? or meyer/amber road area? any SIs there?

i know marine parade road stretching from parkway to marine terrace and beyond is heavily investigated with SIs currently (at least 5-10 machines can be seen along the 1-2km stretch).

[electron]

Ok.. umm lets stop the arguing and get back on topic.

Anyone been to TK road park recently? or meyer/amber road area? any SIs there?

i know marine parade road stretching from parkway to marine terrace and beyond is heavily investigated with SIs currently (at least 5-10 machines can be seen along the 1-2km stretch).

Took an evening walk down Meyer; the SIs have moved further east from the Equatorial Apartments/Belvedere/Seafront stretch of Meyer to the Hawaii Tower/Casa Meyfort side; looks like they're moving East progressively (like how they previously moved from Tanjong Rhu to Meyer). This implies that the SIs may reach the Tanjong Katong end of Meyer soon.

[repanse71]

eh kam gong, stay on the topic and stop trying to bringing up dead issues that you twist for your own convenience.

show us how bankers and accountants disregard including owner-stay properties when calculating net worth.

SHOW US - KAM GONG!

High net worth individual is just how bankers would group target/potential client with $$$ to invest.
It's very simple - cash for investment at least usd 2m.
Ultra means > usd20m
Every bank got different threshold. Nothing sophisticated.
Btw, your properties generally not counted, even if fully paid up.

Regards

[eng81157]

High net worth individual is just how bankers would group target/potential client with $$$ to invest.
It's very simple - cash for investment at least usd 2m.
Ultra means > usd20m
Every bank got different threshold. Nothing sophisticated.
Btw, your properties generally not counted, even if fully paid up.

Regards

you are referring to how banks target HNIs for business. for accounting, calculating is nothing sophisticated - items are either a liability or asset. properties are regarded as assets

[clemdale24]

Took an evening walk down Meyer; the SIs have moved further east from the Equatorial Apartments/Belvedere/Seafront stretch of Meyer to the Hawaii Tower/Casa Meyfort side; looks like they're moving East progressively (like how they previously moved from Tanjong Rhu to Meyer). This implies that the SIs may reach the Tanjong Katong end of Meyer soon.

thanks for the update!! hope u will continue to monitor them for us

[Ringo33]

you are referring to how banks target HNIs for business. for accounting, calculating is nothing sophisticated - items are either a liability or asset. properties are regarded as assets

Again, please dont try to argue for the sake of arguing. He is not talking about how bank attract HNWIs (please include a W, its not HNIs), he is talking about how bank categorized people as HNWI.

For simpleton like yourself, you will generalized everything as assets, but for investors, they will not call their home as investment asset because no one in their right mind will gamble their home for some investment.

Again, simpleton like you should not try too hard arguing for the sake of arguing because you will always end up talking jiaowei and wasting our time.

[ecimbew]

[repanse71]

Again, please dont try to argue for the sake of arguing. He is not talking about how bank attract HNWIs (please include a W, its not HNIs), he is talking about how bank categorized people as HNWI.

For simpleton like yourself, you will generalized everything as assets, but for investors, they will not call their home as investment asset because no one in their right mind will gamble their home for some investment.

Again, simpleton like you should not try too hard arguing for the sake of arguing because you will always end up talking jiaowei and wasting our time.

Just for argument sake

Your HDB is valued at 0.5m - asset line
Your cash in bank at 0.2m - asset line
Your outstanding loan is 0.4m - liability line

Accounting wise, your net worth is 0.3m asset positive.
Practically, on the conservative side, you are 0.2m asset positive

Regards

[Ringo33]

Just for argument sake

Your HDB is valued at 0.5m - asset line
Your cash in bank at 0.2m - asset line
Your outstanding loan is 0.4m - liability line

Accounting wise, your net worth is 0.3m asset positive.
Practically, on the conservative side, you are 0.2m asset positive

Regards

There is no need to argue. Your home is not your investment, so just be happy living in it. And its worst if its a HDB because you are use that as collateral for any form of loans. Even if its private, banks will still need to assess your financial back ground before granting any loans. You could be 0.2m asset positive, but if you are running as negative cash flow, then whats the point to the bank.

[repanse71]

There is no need to argue. Your home is not your investment, so just be happy living in it. And its worst if its a HDB because you are use that as collateral for any form of loans. Even if its private, banks will still need to assess your financial back ground before granting any loans. You could be 0.2m asset positive, but if you are running as negative cash flow, then whats the point to the bank.

I tot we r discussing balance sheet & whether owner occupied property is considered an investment?
Hence, the need to talk about valuation & need to consider loan as liability?

And now you switch to cash flow- something related but different from bal sheet

Regards

[Ringo33]

I tot we r discussing balance sheet & whether owner occupied property is considered an investment?
Hence, the need to talk about valuation & need to consider loan as liability?

And now you switch to cash flow- something related but different from bal sheet

Regards

Actually you are wrong. We were saying that if you only own 1 property for own stay, then forget about whether price will go up or down because it doesnt matter.

The only people who are interested to talk about balance sheets are those who doesnt own investment assets, or those who doesnt qualified as HNWI. As a result they need to challenge the definition of HNWI by coming out with all sort of nonsensical explanation to make them feel they need to be considered as HNWI.

[Sherry]

Actually you are wrong. We were saying that if you only own 1 property for own stay, then forget about whether price will go up or down because it doesnt matter.

The only people who are interested to talk about balance sheets are those who doesnt own investment assets, or those who doesnt qualified as HNWI. As a result they need to challenge the definition of HNWI by coming out with all sort of nonsensical explanation to make them feel they need to be considered as HNWI.

Relax la. We are just trying to clarify basic accounting concepts. Nobody is trying to "pretend" to be a HNWI and join your ranks. What is the point of being so status conscious in a forum? It is better to respond with points that have more technical substance.

Banks are of course interested in investable assets as that's where they make their money. But from a personal perspective, one should worry about the value of one's home. If it goes down one can end up with negative equity (as the outstanding loan remains unchanged); if it goes up one can have more choices when upgrading or downgrading. It is strange that this commonsensical position can be controversial.

[vboy]

Sherry is right

Its so difficult to talk to people who are so hellbent on his own views only and refuse to be open to other ideas.

this is a forum.. if one cannot accept that other people will have different views and not open to learning from others, then he shouldnt join a forum.. just start his own blog

Relax la. We are just trying to clarify basic accounting concepts. Nobody is trying to "pretend" to be a HNWI and join your ranks. What is the point of being so status conscious in a forum? It is better to respond with points that have more technical substance.

Banks are of course interested in investable assets as that's where they make their money. But from a personal perspective, one should worry about the value of one's home. If it goes down one can end up with negative equity (as the outstanding loan remains unchanged); if it goes up one can have more choices when upgrading or downgrading. It is strange that this commonsensical position can be controversial.