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Thread: MRT in D15 *eastern region line

  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008
    I can see people are very excited about the location of the station for this MRT line. They have only just announced stations of a the DTL that will complete in 2017. Any idea when will they annouce station for this line?
    i read smwhr stated 2011-2012

    but hor, i got no stake along erl...cant be bothered

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    Quote Originally Posted by luzman
    That is exactly my point...dont be too engrossed on hard data and start to make speculations and tracking on the soil study etc...its too much details and doesnt see the big picture of the actual situation ....

    Let me put my main point here again before somebody starts to misread of misinterpret my comments...

    I did not say doing all this soil tracking and analysis of possible MRT station is stupid or according to your words "clueless or plain ridiculous"...I am saying by all means do that if your MRT station is going to be ready within these few years....What i am saying is that I fail to understand it when the station is going to be ready maybe 2020...maybe 2021 or 2022....its too far away for god's sake....so, it makes no sense because there are many factors within the next 10 years that will affect prices...certainly not the MRT lines now....that's what i mean by saying "look at the big picture and not dealt will too much details"..
    Please read my 1st reply to you again. You seem to be fixated on the completion date. The gist of my reply states that its the announcement of the exact location of the station which will cause the first spike. Actual completion of the station may result in another but potential buyers react more on announcement than completion.

    The announcement is slated in 2011/12 which is barely 1 to 2 years away. According to the article below, condos near MRT can command a premium of upto 20% over condos which are further away.

    Why this thread has so much interest is simple. Assuming an investor is spot on and buys a condo right next to the proposed MRT. He only has to wait for a year or two before he can cash in and sell for a 20% premium. Not a bad investment in my book and certainly worth all the tracking and soil analysis.

    Even if its a 10% gain, its a pretty good return for a year's risk taking into account that actual cash outlay is only 20% of the total value if you are lucky enough to pick up a deferred payment scheme property


    Singapore buyers seeking condos near MRT stations
    These properties command a premium of up to 20%
    Oct 31, 2008
    iProperty.com Singapore home buyers are becoming increasingly keen on properties located within walking distance to an MRT station, as convenience becomes a main concern in the midst of high petrol prices.
    These increasingly popular units are able to command a premium of up to 20 per cent. There have been instances where buyers are willing to pay between 10 and 20 per cent more than they would for a home a few bus stops away from a station.
    One of the reasons home buyers do not mind forking out the extra cash is because they believe it would help them save on transportation costs in the long run, especially with the hike in the cost of living.
    Other contributing factors include multiplying Electronic Road Pricing gantries and increasing worries over environmental degradation.
    This convenience is also favoured by citizens who do not drive, buyers with school-going children and investors who want to rent the units to expatriates. Majority of these people rely heavily on public transport.
    Although prime districts such as 9, 10 and 11 remain popular, these buyers are also looking towards properties near MRT stations, pushing prices up.
    Housing Development Board (HDB) flats with proximity to stations have had their valuations increase by at least S$20,000 or S$30,000. To top it off, buyers often pay even more in cash.
    Some of the more popular HDB flats close to MRT stations include those in areas like Tiong Bahru, Redhill and Queenstown, all of which are close to town. Even so, units nearby stations in the suburbs can enjoy a big boost in price.
    Flats in Woodlands close to the MRT station are seeing asking prices of between S$40,000 and S$50,000 above valuation, and demand is so high that available units get snapped up within two or three weeks compared to the few months to sell a unit further from the station.
    Due to the fact that owners of these flats are comfortable and do not want to sell, the supply of such units are low and in turn compels buyers with the budget to take any well-located flat for sale.
    For private properties, the scenario is similar with condominiums close to MRT stations commanding a premium of up to 20 per cent over similar units further away.
    At Tiong Bahru MRT station, new condominiums located at the doorstep of the station, such as Twin Regency and Regency Heights in Kim Tian Road, are able to fetch S$1,240 psf on average. Meanwhile, about five to 10 minutes away, prices average at S$1,072 psf or about 15 per cent less, at the equally new The Regency at Tiong Bahru on Chay Yan Street. Rental returns are also very high, thus these units are rarely on the market.
    Even so, proximity to different MRT stations affects property values differently; with big differences between two consecutive stops. According to analysis by property firm Savills Singapore, condos around Novena have price tags almost double of those around Toa Payoh.
    The same analysis revealed that condos around the Dhoby Ghaut station fetched an average of S$1,600 psf in the first six months of the year. Meanwhile, condos near the Little India station less than two kilometres away, fetched only two-thirds that on average, or S$1,071 psf.
    Other factors that influence buyers include quality, age and tenure of the project, as well as its facilities, potential rental rates and available amenities in the area.
    Units near Lavendar and Farrer Park MRT stations are separated by only 1.5km in distance but the difference in price is about S$200 psf. Condos with good facilities such as Citylights at Lavender boosted prices in the vicinity to an average of S$1,104 psf in the first six months of the year but at Farrer Park, which is surrounded by smaller condos with minimal facilities, rents and prices tend to be lower.
    Last edited by proper-t; 24-08-10 at 18:11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by proper-t
    Please read my 1st reply to you again. You seem to be fixated on the completion date. The gist of my reply states that its the announcement of the exact location of the station which will cause the first spike. Actual completion of the station may result in another but potential buyers react more on announcement than completion.

    The announcement is slated in 2011/12 which is barely 1 to 2 years away. According to the article below, condos near MRT can command a premium of upto 20% over condos which are further away.

    Why this thread has so much interest is simple. Assuming an investor is spot on and buys a condo right next to the proposed MRT. He only has to wait for a year or two before he can cash in and sell for a 20% premium. Not a bad investment in my book and certainly worth all the tracking and soil analysis.

    Even if its a 10% gain, its a pretty good return for a year's risk taking into account that actual cash outlay is only 20% of the total value if you are lucky enough to pick up a deferred payment scheme property
    Let me get this point down once and for all in case you still do not understand the main point...see below for the article in today's Straits Times...

    Prices will rise for sure but if the time line is too long...say 7 to 10 years...no investor with the right mind will jump in....even the newly announced line is limited effect for people looking for homes now because it will be 7 years later when ready....be realistic...

    http://a.imageshack.us/img178/2053/imagezv.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by proper-t
    Please read my 1st reply to you again. You seem to be fixated on the completion date. The gist of my reply states that its the announcement of the exact location of the station which will cause the first spike. Actual completion of the station may result in another but potential buyers react more on announcement than completion.

    The announcement is slated in 2011/12 which is barely 1 to 2 years away. According to the article below, condos near MRT can command a premium of upto 20% over condos which are further away.

    Why this thread has so much interest is simple. Assuming an investor is spot on and buys a condo right next to the proposed MRT. He only has to wait for a year or two before he can cash in and sell for a 20% premium. Not a bad investment in my book and certainly worth all the tracking and soil analysis.

    Even if its a 10% gain, its a pretty good return for a year's risk taking into account that actual cash outlay is only 20% of the total value if you are lucky enough to pick up a deferred payment scheme property
    I think you need to read your article property....a premium of 20%....and u say over a period of 1 year...? you must be kidding me man.....it it is that easy to make money...everyone no need to work already...just buy near MRT and wait 1 year and keep doing that and u will be happy rest of your life without working...

    Come on man...premium of 20% over several years lah....unless of course your MRT station is visited by millionaires who dont drive and need a property there and willingly to pay you 20% premium in 1 year...

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    i believe both sides of the camp have valid points. it all boils down to each individual's investment objectives and preferences. short term = sell on strength or positive news, long term = search for properties with better ROI

    no right or wrong in either case

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    Quote Originally Posted by eng81157
    i believe both sides of the camp have valid points. it all boils down to each individual's investment objectives and preferences. short term = sell on strength or positive news, long term = search for properties with better ROI

    no right or wrong in either case
    Agree...but we are talking about 10 years here....short or long term to u?

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    Quote Originally Posted by luzman
    Let me get this point down once and for all in case you still do not understand the main point...see below for the article in today's Straits Times...

    Prices will rise for sure but if the time line is too long...say 7 to 10 years...no investor with the right mind will jump in....even the newly announced line is limited effect for people looking for homes now because it will be 7 years later when ready....be realistic...

    http://a.imageshack.us/img178/2053/imagezv.jpg

    Hmmm....then developers must all be unrealistic when they advertise proximity to future MRTs as a selling point even though completion of the line is 7 to 10 years down the road. The last I heard is that they are having a bumper year in sales.

    The pregrogative of when to sell always lies with the owner. Since you yourself have categorically stated that "prices will rise for sure" for such properties, correctly spotting and buying a condo with an MRT at yr doorstep becomes a sure thing.

    What makes you think a potential buyer will not bite even with a long time frame? Developers have been seller properties with 'future long-term sweeteners' for time immemorial e.g. future shopping centres, future water parks, future MRT etc....There are still buyers who bite.

    I don't know about you but if prices will rise for sure, its an even better bet than trying to spot an en-bloc potential which may not even materialise. You may even end up losing money if the en-bloc doesn't materialise.

    Oh oh....now you will probably go post in the en-bloc thread saying that all their analyses is pointless too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luzman
    I think you need to read your article property....a premium of 20%....and u say over a period of 1 year...? you must be kidding me man.....it it is that easy to make money...everyone no need to work already...just buy near MRT and wait 1 year and keep doing that and u will be happy rest of your life without working...

    Come on man...premium of 20% over several years lah....unless of course your MRT station is visited by millionaires who dont drive and need a property there and willingly to pay you 20% premium in 1 year...
    Dude, the whole point of this thread is to guess the MRT locale BEFORE it is publicly announced. Once it becomes public knowledge, the effect is lost.

    Assuming you had a choice of two properties withiin the same vicinity and priced the same. If there was word of a future line being built, wouldn't you try to second guess where the station will be and buy the property closest to the line. The 20% premium isn't unrealistic if you guess right and the MRT is at your doorstep. Once it is announced and you bet right, you can rest assured that there will be a whole lot of agents lining up to try to sell your property than the other one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by proper-t
    Hmmm....then developers must all be unrealistic when they advertise proximity to future MRTs as a selling point even though completion of the line is 7 to 10 years down the road. The last I heard is that they are having a bumper year in sales.

    The pregrogative of when to sell always lies with the owner. Since you yourself have categorically stated that "prices will rise for sure" for such properties, correctly spotting and buying a condo with an MRT at yr doorstep becomes a sure thing.

    What makes you think a potential buyer will not bite even with a long time frame? Developers have been seller properties with 'future long-term sweeteners' for time immemorial e.g. future shopping centres, future water parks, future MRT etc....There are still buyers who bite.

    I don't know about you but if prices will rise for sure, its an even better bet than trying to spot an en-bloc potential which may not even materialise. You may even end up losing money if the en-bloc doesn't materialise.

    Oh oh....now you will probably go post in the en-bloc thread saying that all their analyses is pointless too.
    You are telling others what others already know...that is, developers are smart...they will use MRT as a sales gimmick to sell..of course there will be buyers who bite....but I am not arguing about this..I am saying timeline is too long for an investor point of view...

    And to do all these guessing...to me, its not investor's mindset..its more like punters mind set...

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    Quote Originally Posted by proper-t
    Dude, the whole point of this thread is to guess the MRT locale BEFORE it is publicly announced. Once it becomes public knowledge, the effect is lost.

    Assuming you had a choice of two properties withiin the same vicinity and priced the same. If there was word of a future line being built, wouldn't you try to second guess where the station will be and buy the property closest to the line. The 20% premium isn't unrealistic if you guess right and the MRT is at your doorstep. Once it is announced and you bet right, you can rest assured that there will be a whole lot of agents lining up to try to sell your property than the other one.
    Of course once you bet it right, there will be agents calling u to sell cos they are agents...just like developers trying to get u excited all....but at the end of the day, its the buyer that must decide whether they want to buy now and hope for the best in 10 years time and of course, endure the noise into the night..., the dust that cannot be wiped cleaned daily and the traffic jam in front of the house for 2-3 years...its thier choice...for me, it doesnt make sense...

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    Quote Originally Posted by luzman
    You are telling others what others already know...that is, developers are smart...they will use MRT as a sales gimmick to sell..of course there will be buyers who bite....but I am not arguing about this..I am saying timeline is too long for an investor point of view...

    And to do all these guessing...to me, its not investor's mindset..its more like punters mind set...
    thin fine line between 'investor and punter'

    most ppl r punters(except some die hard propertism followers)....but punters will turn into long term investors if they cannot sell for a reasonable profit

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    Quote Originally Posted by luzman
    Of course once you bet it right, there will be agents calling u to sell cos they are agents...just like developers trying to get u excited all....but at the end of the day, its the buyer that must decide whether they want to buy now and hope for the best in 10 years time and of course, endure the noise into the night..., the dust that cannot be wiped cleaned daily and the traffic jam in front of the house for 2-3 years...its thier choice...for me, it doesnt make sense...
    Do buyers who pay >$1Kpsf for 99yr LH properties in the outskirts make sense? (Sorry, no offense meant for these buyers).

    These people may know something we don't but they are probably looking into the future as some of these properties will only be completed in 3 to 5 yrs time. They may be buying in the hope that the rebound in global economies and general surge in prices will make them money. To me, having a MRT at yr doorstep is a better bet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by proper-t
    Do buyers who pay >$1Kpsf for 99yr LH properties in the outskirts make sense? (Sorry, no offense meant for these buyers).

    These people may know something we don't but they are probably looking into the future as some of these properties will only be completed in 3 to 5 yrs time. They may be buying in the hope that the rebound in global economies and general surge in prices will make them money. To me, having a MRT at yr doorstep is a better bet.
    got MRT safer of coz...if prices plunge, still can rent out and hold mah.....nowadays, mass market tenants first question: near MRT anot? even locals like me do not noe wat buses to take....

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    Quote Originally Posted by proper-t
    Do buyers who pay >$1Kpsf for 99yr LH properties in the outskirts make sense? (Sorry, no offense meant for these buyers).

    These people may know something we don't but they are probably looking into the future as some of these properties will only be completed in 3 to 5 yrs time. They may be buying in the hope that the rebound in global economies and general surge in prices will make them money. To me, having a MRT at yr doorstep is a better bet.
    Let's not drift into other topics...whether people buy at >$1Kpsf 99 LH property makes sense or now is up to them...and I dont care...

    I am also not arguing that having a MRT at your door step is a bad idea.....

    My point once again if you get loss in the argument..and let's be focussed...and that is, look at the big picture...having a MRT is good...no doubt about it...but if u are hoping to make money by making wild guesses now and when the station is ready in 10 years time..it doesnt make sense because of the problem of long time line....all the effect of MRT will not be felt because 10 years means many cycles of up and downs...and because it is such a long time, buyers who are investors will not want to risk as the upside is limited..

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    I agree with you but then its (most times) better to lucky than smart.
    So even the most uninformed buyer can make a 'good' investment if he is lucky and timely.

    My personal preferences are with yours. With school going kids and crowded roads/ERP - the option of the MRT is worth the premium.

    What about a FH with en bloc potential at $1k psf with an MRT station within 3-4 minutes walking distance?


    Quote Originally Posted by proper-t
    Do buyers who pay >$1Kpsf for 99yr LH properties in the outskirts make sense? (Sorry, no offense meant for these buyers).

    These people may know something we don't but they are probably looking into the future as some of these properties will only be completed in 3 to 5 yrs time. They may be buying in the hope that the rebound in global economies and general surge in prices will make them money. To me, having a MRT at yr doorstep is a better bet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luzman
    You are telling others what others already know...that is, developers are smart...they will use MRT as a sales gimmick to sell..of course there will be buyers who bite....but I am not arguing about this..I am saying timeline is too long for an investor point of view...

    And to do all these guessing...to me, its not investor's mindset..its more like punters mind set...
    Why is the timeline too long when the announcement is estimated in 2011/12 which is barely 1 to 2 yrs away?

    If I invest in a property now which I think is sited next to a potential MRT station, all I have to do is wait till 2011/12 for the announcement. Once the announcement is made and the hype of the station is strong, I can sell off and reap the gains. Even a 10% gain is pretty respectable for a 1-2 yr horizon. This gain is magnified further if I am on a deferred payment scheme with onyl 20% cash outlay.

    Yes, there is an element of punting or some may even say speculation (dirty word nowadays), but I believe that luck also plays a part in investing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn108
    What about a FH with en bloc potential at $1k psf with an MRT station within 3-4 minutes walking distance?
    which project? got reasonable sellers anot?

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    Quote Originally Posted by proper-t
    Why is the timeline too long when the announcement is estimated in 2011/12 which is barely 1 to 2 yrs away?

    If I invest in a property now which I think is sited next to a potential MRT station, all I have to do is wait till 2011/12 for the announcement. Once the announcement is made and the hype of the station is strong, I can sell off and reap the gains. Even a 10% gain is pretty respectable for a 1-2 yr horizon. This gain is magnified further if I am on a deferred payment scheme with onyl 20% cash outlay.

    Yes, there is an element of punting or some may even say speculation (dirty word nowadays), but I believe that luck also plays a part in investing.
    knowledge more impt....i shd haf bot landed during last yr lows instead of condos

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    Quote Originally Posted by proper-t
    Why is the timeline too long when the announcement is estimated in 2011/12 which is barely 1 to 2 yrs away?

    If I invest in a property now which I think is sited next to a potential MRT station, all I have to do is wait till 2011/12 for the announcement. Once the announcement is made and the hype of the station is strong, I can sell off and reap the gains. Even a 10% gain is pretty respectable for a 1-2 yr horizon. This gain is magnified further if I am on a deferred payment scheme with onyl 20% cash outlay.

    Yes, there is an element of punting or some may even say speculation (dirty word nowadays), but I believe that luck also plays a part in investing.
    Great...Since I cannot talk sense into u...please continue with your soil analysis and all the best to your pint point guessing....and let me know if you made your 20% gain once it is announced in 2011/12...

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    Quote Originally Posted by luzman
    Let's not drift into other topics...whether people buy at >$1Kpsf 99 LH property makes sense or now is up to them...and I dont care...

    I am also not arguing that having a MRT at your door step is a bad idea.....

    My point once again if you get loss in the argument..and let's be focussed...and that is, look at the big picture...having a MRT is good...no doubt about it...but if u are hoping to make money by making wild guesses now and when the station is ready in 10 years time..it doesnt make sense because of the problem of long time line....all the effect of MRT will not be felt because 10 years means many cycles of up and downs...and because it is such a long time, buyers who are investors will not want to risk as the upside is limited..
    I am not not drifting but reiterating my points :

    You say : Investment horizon too long
    I say: Investment timeline is not long as the price spike is expected to happen on announcement of stations not completion.

    You say: buyers will not bite if completion period is too long
    I say : Buyers nowadays look towards the future and some of their decisions may not be rational in your view. Look at the past year or so of property launches and the buying patterns of the masses. To them, the attraction of a MRT stations at their doorstep when their kids grow up may be too hard to resist notwithstanding long completion period.

    You say : Gains of 5 -10% is not worth the analysis
    I say : buy a $1mil property on a deferred payment scheme - $200K cash outlay now. In 1.5yrs time, announcement is made, you are spot-on and sell the property at $1.1m or even $1.2m. Minimum return in 1.5yrs is $100K - $25K (stamp duty) = $75K for a $200K investment over 1.5 yrs or a 25% return.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luzman
    Great...Since I cannot talk sense into u...please continue with your soil analysis and all the best to your pint point guessing....and let me know if you made your 20% gain once it is announced in 2011/12...
    FYI, I have already made more than 20% years ago when the DTL2 was announced and my investment was just next to one of the stations.

    Great, then please leave us 'soil analyzers' alone in our own happy money making thread.

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    Default Waterfront Gold

    got a unit in waterfront gold for investment. I just switch funds from share trading to property. Now no more share trading and heart-attacking when the market downside for me at all, position clear. I love water-front property at first sight and of-course the MRT is door steps. All these was added to the value of my investment . cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by proper-t
    FYI, I have already made more than 20% years ago when the DTL2 was announced and my investment was just next to one of the stations.

    Great, then please leave us 'soil analyzers' alone in our own happy money making thread.
    I am sure your 20% is not made within 1 year....

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    you can actually talk to the on site soil testing engineers. they may giv you some clues.

    We hav owner from Waterfront waves, who talked to the on site soil engineers more than 1 yr ago, and the engineers told him it is for MRT construction.

    U can also try to dig out the soil test tender document as reference although most of the time its not available to public.

    Quote Originally Posted by proper-t
    FYI, I have already made more than 20% years ago when the DTL2 was announced and my investment was just next to one of the stations.

    Great, then please leave us 'soil analyzers' alone in our own happy money making thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by proper-t
    I am not not drifting but reiterating my points :

    You say : Investment horizon too long
    I say: Investment timeline is not long as the price spike is expected to happen on announcement of stations not completion.

    You say: buyers will not bite if completion period is too long
    I say : Buyers nowadays look towards the future and some of their decisions may not be rational in your view. Look at the past year or so of property launches and the buying patterns of the masses. To them, the attraction of a MRT stations at their doorstep when their kids grow up may be too hard to resist notwithstanding long completion period.

    You say : Gains of 5 -10% is not worth the analysis
    I say : buy a $1mil property on a deferred payment scheme - $200K cash outlay now. In 1.5yrs time, announcement is made, you are spot-on and sell the property at $1.1m or even $1.2m. Minimum return in 1.5yrs is $100K - $25K (stamp duty) = $75K for a $200K investment over 1.5 yrs or a 25% return.
    Just to get u back to reality...

    Did u see a price spike in circle line after it was announced?? an increase in interest of course but a spike?? hmm.....

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    Welcome to waterfront development. Pls join our private forum for more discussion. cheers!

    Quote Originally Posted by chuash
    got a unit in waterfront gold for investment. I just switch funds from share trading to property. Now no more share trading and heart-attacking when the market downside for me at all, position clear. I love water-front property at first sight and of-course the MRT is door steps. All these was added to the value of my investment . cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by luzman
    I am sure your 20% is not made within 1 year....
    I think is possible. I have made 100% net return by investment from shares trading within a year too. But no more after that.
    Last edited by chuash; 25-08-10 at 12:04.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luzman
    I am sure your 20% is not made within 1 year....
    i tink buy ANY ppty during feb-may last yr can achieve at least 20%....i was hesitating to buy a carpark facing unit at The Sail...ard 1200psf to close...now at least can fetch 1700psf rite?

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    i tink buy ANY ppty during feb-may last yr can achieve at least 20%....i was hesitating to buy a carpark facing unit at The Sail...ard 1200psf to close...now at least can fetch 1700psf rite?
    sure lah...100% also possible...I am replying about the statement that he makes 20% years ago spotting on MRT station...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn108
    I agree with you but then its (most times) better to lucky than smart.
    So even the most uninformed buyer can make a 'good' investment if he is lucky and timely.

    My personal preferences are with yours. With school going kids and crowded roads/ERP - the option of the MRT is worth the premium.

    What about a FH with en bloc potential at $1k psf with an MRT station within 3-4 minutes walking distance?
    FH with en bloc potential and within 5mins walking distance to MRT. wow, such developments are a rarity. let me know if you know of such developments around so that can consider investing

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