The Minton (D19, 99 years leasehold, Kheng Leong)

[stalingrad]

Even in far north Sembawang / Yishun area shooting past 800psf...

while prices in prime areas have not budged

[devilplate]

this is wat i observed about Sg ppty market....every segment has their 'time' to shine

JLRX aso pointed out in other thread.

on 2006/07 bull run, prime market is leading the pack and mass market condo and HDB r laggards

during mid 2007, attention started to shift from prime to mass market and tats when mass market/HDB started to shine. sadly, due to subprime crisis started in Oct 2007, it jammed the brakes for mass market/HDB segments prematurely.

when economic recovery in Mid last yr, mass/HDB continues their upward trends from the point tat they were stopped at Oct 2007 (although HDB still defys the crisis but grow at a slower pace)

So, it is sort of a rotational play seen in the ppty market.

NOW is the best time for mass market supporters to SHOUT....but how long will this party last....Ur guess is as good as mine

[stalingrad]

In early 2000s, there were good reasons for prime areas to shine, given that there were more amenities there than in ulu areas. I remember that in late 1990s, there was not even a starbuck in my neck of the woods. Now, the whole country is basically equalized in terms of amenities. So, unless your job is the prime area and you would get fired if you are five minutes late, there is no reason for many people to live in the prime areas.

As I said, i don't even know what ion looks like and I don't even care.

[august]

this is wat i observed about Sg ppty market....every segment has their 'time' to shine

JLRX aso pointed out in other thread.

on 2006/07 bull run, prime market is leading the pack and mass market condo and HDB r laggards

during mid 2007, attention started to shift from prime to mass market and tats when mass market/HDB started to shine. sadly, due to subprime crisis started in Oct 2007, it jammed the brakes for mass market/HDB segments prematurely.

when economic recovery in Mid last yr, mass/HDB continues their upward trends from the point tat they were stopped at Oct 2007 (although HDB still defys the crisis but grow at a slower pace)

So, it is sort of a rotational play seen in the ppty market.

NOW is the best time for mass market supporters to SHOUT....but how long will this party last....Ur guess is as good as mine

the FACT remains: there will always be a gap between woodlands and nassim, the two will not reach parity


thats the brutal truth lol

[devilplate]

morale of the story: birds of the same feather flock together

when one is a billionaire, very hard to imagine wat a pauper mentality will be(unless he/she started from ground zero) and vice versa

we goto tink out of our own 'horizon' and open up to new horizons

i mentioned b4, if u were to ask HDB dwellers whether a puny studio in CBD worth a million now anot....they will say CRAZY and likewise, if u ask any billionaires whether current HDB prices is high anot...they will say PEANUTS

[teddybear]

What a joke.
British income, especially even blue collar workers, are 3-5x that of Singapore. Yet, London zone 1 property prices (they have interest rebates when they take out loan) is 10% of Zone 1. Singapore with more homogeneous income, where many don't even earn as much as even the British blue-collar workers, talking about 1:1 parity in private property prices between OCR:CCR? Are we talking about the general masses income growth at 30-50% vs the rich not growing or decreasing that one day we can see 1:1 parity for OCR:CCR private property prices?

May be more like OCR HDB flat prices getting close to parity with OCR private properties may be coming true with HDB flats even more modern and with more concrete walls (no cutting corners with glass facade walls) vs OCR private properties getting to become MM units and don't even have decent facilities and not even enough car parks for private residents - (or the developers believe most residents can no longer afford the cars after paying so much for properties so no point wasting their money to build more car parks?).
Since OCR private properties no advantage why buy? Might as well buy HDB?

Now let's get back to the main point I was making. London is a heterogeneous city, justifying the price differentials across regions. Singapore, however, is a homogeneous city and getting more so by the day. Thus, wait for the prices in different regions to equalize in the long run. Equalization is in fact already occurring. Prices in the outlying areas are rising, but those in CBD are hardly moving.

Eventually those who own in the outlying area will be worth millions, and those who own in the CBD will cry all the way to the bankruptcy court.

[teddybear]

Yes, stalingrad -> stalin grad -> communists grad???
Yes sure, when we become a communists society/country?
Everybody receives same pay, get the same things, live in same house, rotate through the same jobs...

Do you even know what you are rattling about? How will Orchard and Jurong have a psf differential of only 200psf? However small Singapore might be, there will always be a hierarchy where the rich and average will be differentiated by where they live.

[stalingrad]

What a joke.
British income, especially even blue collar workers, are 3-5x that of Singapore. Yet, London zone 1 property prices (they have interest rebates when they take out loan) is 10% of Zone 1. Singapore with more homogeneous income, where many don't even earn as much as even the British blue-collar workers, talking about 1:1 parity in private property prices between OCR:CCR? Are we talking about the general masses income growth at 30-50% vs the rich not growing or decreasing that one day we can see 1:1 parity for OCR:CCR private property prices?

May be more like OCR HDB flat prices getting close to parity with OCR private properties may be coming true with HDB flats even more modern and with more concrete walls (no cutting corners with glass facade walls) vs OCR private properties getting to become MM units and don't even have decent facilities and not even enough car parks for private residents - (or the developers believe most residents can no longer afford the cars after paying so much for properties so no point wasting their money to build more car parks?).
Since OCR private properties no advantage why buy? Might as well buy HDB?

What a bigger joke. We are not talking about upper crust income vs. lower crust income here. We are talking about people who own condos here, and therefore have excluded the blue collar workers in singapore or the great Britain altogether.

since only the affluent can own condos in Singapore, how much the blue collar workers make here vs. their counterparts in UK is entirely irrelevant. what is relevant is what condo owners in prime and ulu areas can get in terms of school, shopping and good facilities,etc. Since the country is entirely homogenized in terms of these, why would there be a price premium for the CBD?

[stalingrad]

Yes, stalingrad -> stalin grad -> communists grad???
Yes sure, when we become a communists society/country?
Everybody receives same pay, get the same things, live in same house, rotate through the same jobs...

Just debate, don't make personal comments, and don't call people names. don't debase yourself by doing so.

[teddybear]

You missed my point. Unless you can make the rich to have same income and net assets as your so called middle income (whose income is actually miserable vs the rich as we have a big middle income but a super high gap to the very rich income), there is no way properties in the limited prime CCR area (favoured by the rich) will become close to the OCR area. Just an example, it is hard to find any valuable prime CCR condos with "colourful flags" hanging in the balconies & windows but this is just too common in OCR condos! Yuck! So ugly! These people have no decency or they think they "flags" very nice? What about swimmers in those mass market condos spitting, not wearing proper attires as reported in the news? Yuck! You think the rich and decent people want to be in the company of these indecent & ugly-mannered people?

What a bigger joke. We are not talking about upper crust income vs. lower crust income here. We are talking about people who own condos here, and therefore have excluded the blue collar workers in singapore or the great Britain altogether.

since only the affluent can own condos in Singapore, how much the blue collar workers make here vs. their counterparts in UK is entirely irrelevant. what is relevant is who condo owners in prime and ulu areas can get in terms of school, shopping and good facilities,etc. Since the country is entirely homogenized in terms of these, why would there be a price premium for the CBD?

[stalingrad]

You missed my point. Unless you can make the rich to have same income and net assets as your so called middle income (whose income is actually miserable vs the rich as we have a big middle income but a super high gap to the very rich income), there is no way properties in the limited prime CCR area (favoured by the rich) will become close to the OCR area. Just an example, it is hard to find any valuable prime CCR condos with "colourful flags" hanging in the balconies & windows but this is just too common in OCR condos! Yuck! So ugly! These people have no decency or they think they "flags" very nice? What about swimmers in those mass market condos spitting, not wearing proper attires as reported in the news? Yuck! You think the rich and decent people want to be in the company of these indecent & ugly-mannered people?

No way will the gap in condo prices be closed? It is already happening. come on, wake up and smell whatever you put in your pipe.

[august]

Just debate, don't make personal comments, and don't call people names. don't debase yourself by doing so.

r'ly? like that u debased urself a page ago liao

hahahahaha!

[bargain hunter]

hey guys, what about this:

the psf gap between CCR and OCR has been closing.

However, OCR has attained this because of smaller units (thus keeping the units affordable) and because there is no longer the crappy bay window/planters in the design.

Quantum wise, there is still a gap because of significantly larger sq ft for CCR. Beyond a certain quantum, heartlanders find it hard to upgrade to.

there will come a time when CCR will pull out the gap again, just maybe not yet, could take some time.

[bargain hunter]

i only went out for 3 hours and this thread has seriously become a bad minton court on a friday at the start of world cup.

poor Minton...now this thread really become badminton

[azeoprop]

What happened to The Minton?

[bargain hunter]

What happened to The Minton?

[teddybear]

I definitely would dream that I can buy some prime properties like Marc@Paterson at the same $psf as a OCR condo but some people are hoping and hoping and hoping. We have to differentiate between dream and hope and reality.

hey guys, what about this:

the psf gap between CCR and OCR has been closing.

However, OCR has attained this because of smaller units (thus keeping the units affordable) and because there is no longer the crappy bay window/planters in the design.

Quantum wise, there is still a gap because of significantly larger sq ft for CCR. Beyond a certain quantum, heartlanders find it hard to upgrade to.

there will come a time when CCR will pull out the gap again, just maybe not yet, could take some time.

[stalingrad]

I definitely would dream that I can buy some prime properties like Marc@Paterson at the same $psf as a OCR condo but some people are hoping and hoping and hoping. We have to differentiate between dream and hope and reality.

your dream will come true sooner than you realize. I will not, however, be here to see it. I am saving money to buy my next home, in vancouver or toronto.

[stalingrad]

hey guys, what about this:

the psf gap between CCR and OCR has been closing.

However, OCR has attained this because of smaller units (thus keeping the units affordable) and because there is no longer the crappy bay window/planters in the design.

Quantum wise, there is still a gap because of significantly larger sq ft for CCR. Beyond a certain quantum, heartlanders find it hard to upgrade to.

there will come a time when CCR will pull out the gap again, just maybe not yet, could take some time.

Not so, with due respect. Before 2007, the average price of west coast is 400-500 psf, but that of river valley is about 2000 psf. fast forward, now the price comparison is 1200 vs. 2,000. the gap has narrowed from 1,500 to 800. and soon it will disappear.

Nothing to do with bay windows and crappy planters. I am comparing projects with bay windows and planters in west coast and river valley.

[proud owner]

errr...ur figures abit misleading

if wana pluck figures..mabe pluck record prices/average prices/lowest prices in both location to make a fairer comparison?

i do agree tat certain OCR/RCR r playing the catching up with CCR...figures dun lie. however, i wud say a luxury condo in orchard shd at least cost twice of an average mass market condo

i read a comment smwhr...HK mass market condo about 1500psf and their high end about 7k to 10kpsf...i am not sure...just quote wat i read

Sg mass market 800-1kpsf and high end 3-4kpsf

HK also a small country with very gd transport network

hihi pal

i am taking average off my head ..
from what i know ..D5 west coast ... ave 1000 psf (GrandHill, Balmeg, Vision, Le'hill, Parc ...etc)

RiverValley area D9 ave 1400 psf (valley park, Mercury, etc )

of course there are those in D9 like cairnhill area thats closer to 2500 psf ave ...


i guess what i find interesting indeed was that report abt D1-8 catching up with 9-11

as evident alrady , D1-4 has surpassed many projects in 9-11

the mass projects in D1-8 definitely has caught up (closing the gap) with the mass project in D9-11

[devilplate]

as evident alrady , D1-4 has surpassed many projects in 9-11

the mass projects in D1-8 definitely has caught up (closing the gap) with the mass project in D9-11

D1-4 surpasses 9-11? I only noe 1,2....

i mentioned b4 last time tat CL, SB suddenly upgraded from mass to mid end status.

ur statement will give a wake up call to those who only invest purely based on District Labelling

[kane]

it's like how vision can suddenly sell for 1,200psf. i thought those kind of psf are reserved for RV areas?

[Rysk]

not to tok down JB ppty

but i hf seen and heard enuff true cases whereby ur ppty is burgled every now and den...if u buy and dun stay there often...u will be shocked to death when u see many drug addicts etc camping in ur HSE when u go back to ur hse!!!

i got msia relatives...just recently, my niece nearly got kidnapped just outside her condo! luckily she was saved by the condo security guards! now she was told to wait for cab inside her condo beside the guardhouse....very scary...but its real and true life incidents!

You pay peanut.. you get monkey..
Some of my malaysian frens JB hse also kena breakin every now & then..
Girls waiting at quiet bus stop alone also kena kidnap & bring to deserted place & rape.
My malaysian fren also lan lan.. but wat to do! cheap cheap is like that..

[proud owner]

D1-4 surpasses 9-11? I only noe 1,2....

i mentioned b4 last time tat CL, SB suddenly upgraded from mass to mid end status.

ur statement will give a wake up call to those who only invest purely based on District Labelling

if i am not wrong, in the past, not a single project in D1-8 had higher psf than those in D9-11

today ... the 'cream' of D1-8 has higher psf than many 'sour cream' of D9-11

thats a big change in my opinion ...

i guess many forumers here ...who have lived oversea ,, realised that distance is nothing to talk about in spore , compared to other bigger countries.. and have posted on many occasions stating this fact ..

i believe they have succeeded in educating sporeans that 45 mins MRT ride is norm outside spore ... hence the willingness to pay up in area out OCR (D9-11)

[kane]

singapore is really small. before you can even sprint your car, chances are you've arrived at your exit on the expressway.

anyway, back to minton, wonder how many units they'll be selling this weekend?

[Regulators]

exactly my point. how would Beyonce (if she thinks of migrating to singapore) ever see herself mingling with the crass hdb upgraders in Northoaks when a condo like Ardmore would be more befitting of her status. likewise it would be absurd for ardmore to fall to 1.5k psf which will cause flocks of hdb upgraders to move into the prime districts to spoil the image of prime condo. There has to be a differentiation for the rich and the rich wont mind paying millions just to steer clear of the hdb upgraders.

the FACT remains: there will always be a gap between woodlands and nassim, the two will not reach parity


thats the brutal truth lol

[Douk]

With so many MM, upgraders already in prime district. Even in prime district, people differentiate themselve between the MM and luxury development. To the rich, they even distinguish them by the family name.. no end to "class" comparison.

[livenlove]

The guy enjoys putting down people I suppose.
Note that this is very different from having a contrary/different/alternative points of view/perspective/experience to share, which may be of great benefit for discussion/debate and consideration, which I think what a good forum should be.

What is wrong with being called stupid? If you don't want to be called stupid, make some sensible comments.

[ulrich76]

there will be a price differential, but it will not be substantial. Wait for orchard road prices to drop to 1,500 psf, and prices in the outlying regions to go up to 1,300 psf. the difference of 200psf accounts for the snob factor.

I stay in suburbs in a $550psf condo. I also hope what you say will come true. But I can only say that if my condo go up to $1,000psf and Orchard go down to $2000psf, I will shift immediately to a condo half the size in Orchard.

Bro, penny stock will always be penny stock, blue chip will always be blue chip. Its not just the amenities, its the prestige and distance from "town". Things like good-paying jobs, happening nightspots, high end shopping, fine dining will mostly be congregated in "town"

[kane]

been a while since i last stepped into any showroom, gonna go have a look and see what's the draw with this one.